User talk:Drieakko

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Categorized posts before 21.06.2007:

If you have posted on my talk page and feel wrongly categorized, please let me know :)

Please do not feed the trolls

Contents

TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS[edit]

In Vatican paragraph, the list of recognizing countires are given. Is this POV (for recognition)?, No. In TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS paragraph, the report is given. Is this POV (for recognition)?, No. That is info. Annan's 2006 report on Cyprus and its hyperlink will be given as well as 2004, in near futureVista2010 11:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Bishop Thomas[edit]

The article Article you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.png, see Talk:Article for eventual comments about the article. Well done!

jackturner3 13:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! :) --Drieakko 16:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Drieakko, Technology of the Song Dynasty article[edit]

As you've requested, I've organized those two sections into multiple sub-sections, made all block quotes normal font, not italic, and converted most of the text that was placed in parentheses into article prose instead.--PericlesofAthens 11:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Quick response and great work, passed GA! --Drieakko 11:59, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Awesome, that's very good news. Thank you, and it's good to see some Finns on Wikipedia. Do you think Finnish history on wiki is lacking (I've seen some articles you've edited)? It's good to know that there's a Finnish wiki project.--PericlesofAthens 14:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is lacking big time. I have started to complement it from the 12-13th century upwards. There is work for years to come :) --Drieakko 15:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Bishop Henry[edit]

Drieakko, as I am copy-editing the text of this article, it appears that much of it was written by a non-native English speaker (which I assume to be you). I hope that you will not be offended as I tweak the grammar and vocabulary throughout the article. Pastordavid 18:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, please go ahead! :) --Drieakko 18:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Drieakko, If you have not ever taken an article through the FA process, there is some useful advice here. In particular, it is best to not have any other projects going while having an article up as a FA candidate, as the process can take quite a bit of time and energy, and it is best to treat all criticism of the article as suggestions for improvement and do your best to implement them. Let me know when you are ready to nominate, and I will pitch in in any way that I can. Pastordavid 15:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for advice, I'll keep you posted! --Drieakko 16:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Estonian pirates[edit]

Dear Drieakko, could you please have a talk with User:Termer at Talk:Estonian pirates. He is the kind of user who sees "racist Scandinavian POVs" against Estonians, so it might be better if you, living in Finland, discuss it with him. Best,--Berig 10:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Replied there, hopefully not confusing the situation more :) --Drieakko 12:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of it :).--Berig 22:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Hej Berig, Hvorfor syns du at nogen fra Finland skal taler om det for dig? Tak skal du have!--Termer 16:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Your welcome[edit]

Thanks, it was an interesting article. If you do nominate it for FA give me a link to the nomination, I'd like to see how it fares. Regards, Psychless 20:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, would you consider reformatting the citations in the article? Such as in Finnish Civil War, Reference books in different section, and notes only having websites and page references to books. I also implemented Template:Harvard citation to the Finnish Civil War article. See the article, if you'd like to have it. It takes quite some space though, and isn't really that better if you format the references and notes properly manually. I also nominated Finnish Civil War to FA and main page featured article, so if you want it to main page, you should immediately make a short main page description and put it here Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests. It took months for the FCW to get on main page, and now the queue is even longer. Anyway, the article looks good to me, I will claim my support later. --Pudeo (Talk) 11:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for advice, I think I'll take it into usage. The current way Bishop Henry is referenced is a bit messy for this part. --Drieakko 11:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Calendar of Saints (Lutheran) Featured List[edit]

Just so that you know, the article Calendar of Saints (Lutheran) has been split into two articles, one with the original title and another with the title of Liturgical calendar (Lutheran). The Calendar of Saints has gone up for Featured List review, but failed after only garnering three votes (three support, none oppose). I wanted to let you know, since it was at your suggestion that the article be split into the two current articles, so that when the article is renominated (hopefully later today or on Monday), you will be able to voice your opinion. I will let you know when the list is renominatied. Liturgical Calendar (Lutheran) has already been nominated for GA status and is currently under review. -- jackturner3 14:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, please let me know as you renominate it. It is unfortunate if lack of interest fails nominations. --Drieakko 14:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, the list has been renominated. You can find the discussion for it at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Calendar of Saints (Lutheran). Thanks -- jackturner3 14:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Gave my comments there now. --Drieakko 16:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Languages of Finland[edit]

Why have you removed my edit in the Finland article?84.251.73.218 10:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

It was a very strong statement and without a reference. --Drieakko 10:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI (June 2007)[edit]

The June 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 13:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Laponia[edit]

Hi Drieakko. Would you please explain why You undid my attempt to disambiguate "Lapland" [1]. Is it really preferable to keep the link to the disambiguation page? or can we find a better article to link to? --Leo Laursen ( T | C ) 20:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

In most of its meanings, Laponia is just "Lapland" in Latin. In that meaning, it is as disambiguous, and needs to point to a disambiguous page. --Drieakko 20:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, I can accept that. In my view the meaning is imprecise rather than ambiguous, that was why I chose to link to the general area, but he subject is rather confusing, I think :-) --Leo Laursen ( T | C ) 21:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Easter Island[edit]

The template can be used for both coutries and territories. See, for example, Isle of Man. Cheers. ☆ CieloEstrellado 07:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for the tip on editting and referencing. --Mcpaul1998 02:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

What are yuo doing[edit]

Why you first delete unofficial finnish name and then edit back unofficial swedish name? Why, are you paid from swedish part? --Jommala 16:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Kindly take part in the poll before starting massive edits on your own right. --Drieakko 16:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I know you are User: Silenzio sockpuppet! And I have proves of it! --Jommala 21:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Please contact Wikipedia administrators to get your suspicions sorted out. --Drieakko 09:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Finland "Ruled by Sweden" or "Part of Sweden"[edit]

Although I haven't been party to any of the other edits on this I am a bit curious as to the distinction you are drawing, the reasons for doing so, and the wisdom of doing so.

"Ruled by Sweden" and "Part of Sweden" are both technically correct. Finland as a nation state of course did not exist until early in the 20th century, but there was clearly a different ethnic group in most of the area called Finland and surely the native Finns would have felt themselves as being "ruled" by a "foreign" power. I ise the word "foreign" here is used in the loose sense that the Finnish speaking Finns would have felt themselves to be culturally and linguistically different from their Swedish masters in Stockholm, where Finns had little or no political power.

Saying that Finland was "part of Sweden" is like saying that "Ireland was part of the United Kingdom" or that the "Karelian Isthmus is part of Russia". Though a political reality, it loses the sense that the area is largely under the influence of people other than the natives of that region. Surely "ruled by Sweden" conveys that reality. --Tom 10:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for having interest on this matter. There is however a clear difference between areas that were part of Sweden and areas that were ruled by Sweden. Finland was a part of the Sweden Proper already in the 14th century until 1809 when it was annexed by Russia. A person living in Finland had the same legal rights than a person living e.g. in Stockholm. However, e.g. Estonia, Livonia, German towns and Kexholm County were not parts of Sweden, but ruled by it. Their inhabitants did not have the same rights as the people in the Sweden Proper, as the areas were treated more or less as colonies. --Drieakko 10:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


The Finnish Orthodox Church II[edit]

I have restored the "speculation" you have removed. Without some general inferences one cannot write the history of very early times combined with scarcity of sources. Removals should be discussed first on the discussion page. --Tellervo 08:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Claiming it to be "certain" that Finns and Karelians took part in the Varangian trips is incorrect and will be removed unless you provide a source for it. The whole idea is unnecessary speculation and needs not be in Wikipedia. --Drieakko 08:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Smile[edit]

Advice about when a disambiguation tag may be warranted[edit]

Hi Drieakko, I am in a disagreement with a new user about when a disambiguation tag may be useful[2]. Pershaps, you have an opinion in the issue.--Berig 17:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Gave my 2c on the talk page. --Drieakko 12:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator selection[edit]

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by August 14! Kirill 02:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Justice Forever block[edit]

Where is the report? I can't find it. I think that 88.230.23.197 is a sock. It's fairly obvious once you look at the edit summaries. ¿SFGiДnts! ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 17:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Which report are you looking for? Behavior of his earlier incarnation was reported to the Admin Incident Board sometime ago by me, after that I have just seen his sock puppets go down. --Drieakko 17:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I see. So what should I do with this sockpuppet? ¿SFGiДnts! ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 17:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Ignorance is usually the best way to deal with them. --Drieakko 17:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Here is the original incident post. --Drieakko 17:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election[edit]

The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators from a pool of fourteen candidates to serve for the next six months. Please vote here by August 28! Kirill 01:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Maakhir[edit]

I noticed that there were two people editing and I didn't look to see who did what so this may not apply to you. I've cleaned up the links (and made no other changes to the article) and just wanted to let you know the following. In the body of the article there should only be one link to other articles. In other words the first time that "Somaliland" is in the article link it, but not every time it appears. Also, please don't make direct links into redirects. The following are direct links to articles: Jibrell Ali Salad (Jibrell Ali Salad Aadan), Warsangali (Warsangeli), Mohamud Muse Hersi (Adde Musa), Dhulbahante (Dulbahante), Majeerteen (Majerteen), Las Khorey (Laasqoray) and Ceerigaabo (Erigavo). Also watch out for Dhahar which is just a redirect to Sanaag and not a link to the town. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:38, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok; those points seem to concern someone else. --Drieakko 00:24, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Just ignore it then. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Deletion discussion[edit]

Hello, you contributed earlier regarding the list of Finnish Americans, so I thought you might like to see the discussion here. Badagnani 17:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XVIII (August 2007)[edit]

The August 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 09:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Early Finnish history[edit]

Hello, as you have great amount of source material available on "early Finnish history" and obviously are a great editor in that area, would you mind to drop in in the Finnish Wikipedia? We've had discussion about whether the "Swedish rule in Finland" started in 1150 or 1250 fi:Keskustelu:Suomen_historia. Discussion about the crusades fi:Keskustelu:Ruotsin_vallan_aika_Suomessa#Kristinusko_saapuu-kappale and so on. Since you have written articles Early Finnish wars and Finnish-Novgorodian wars here, may I invite you to help us, if we create an article there, perhaps with the title "Suomen muinaiset sodat". Finnish Wikipedia lacks much information on these, and only has controversial stuff split in "Suomen kuninkaat" or "Kvenland". I noticed that you're a member on Finnish Wikipedia, but you haven't edited in ages. We'd really need an editor like you there too. So please, if helping us to create an article on early Finnish wars in fiwiki or anything interests you, drop by. --Pudeo 14:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for compliments. My edits recently to English Wikipedia have dropped quite a lot because I am very busy at my daily work (oh well even I need to get living from somewhere). But if I find time to drop by also to Finnish Wikipedia I definitely start from those subjects. --Drieakko 14:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Alright then, keep it in mind. By the way, did you already see that Bishop Henry will be featured on main page on 28th? Did you even suggest it? I mean wow, T-26 tank has been in queue for over a half year, and it took ages for Finnish Civil War. Good thing 28th is still Friday, so a lot of people will see it from their schools. Prepare for hell, I reverted 30 vandalist edits on Finnish Civil War during the 24 hours. :-) --Pudeo 20:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I noticed. I did not suggest it, but I sure was pleased to notice it to be featured. Thanks for warning, I've loaded my guns for Friday :P --Drieakko 03:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

So, I started the translation at fi:Suomalais-novgorodilaissodat. It's quite word-from-word from your text. Looks OK? Still have to translate the last two chapters. Wonder if someone is going to claim original research soon. Too bad there isn't any much used term, suomalais-novgorodilaissodat gets 0 Google hits... --Pudeo 17:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Good work! I translated the remaining part and made some corrections. Hardly need for OR claims, all is well referenced. For some reason, the subject itself is generally overlooked and many people have never even heard of it. --Drieakko 08:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations![edit]

Congrats Drieakko for having your article on the front page!--Berig 13:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for noticing! After spending so much time with it, I was very pleased to see it selected for the front page :) --Drieakko 13:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Emergency user shutoff button[edit]

Hei! Saanko kokeilla tuota käyttäjän toimintahäiriön varalle tarkoitettua shutoff-painiketta omalla käyttäjäsivullani fi-wikissä? Hauska idea mielestäni. –Finlux 19:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I have lifted it from somewhere in Wikipedia :) so it's under GFDL. --Drieakko 19:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks. Finlux 19:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Republic[edit]

Referring to your edit, are you sure? A lot of legal documents refer Finland as "Republic of Finland", see: [3] Same with some parts of the constitution, although it does not define any "official name".--Pudeo 12:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I was quite surprised with that finding myself, too. I went through the legislation and had to conclude that there was nothing about the "Republic of Finland" (Suomen tasavalta). No law seems to define that it is the official name of Finland. I'd guess that it comes from some governmental protocol department, but I really don't know. But it is not defined by the law. --Drieakko 13:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

House of Munsö[edit]

Hi Drieakko, I am still having the old dispute over the House of Munsö with user:Pieter Kuiper. He wants to remove stuff, while I want to keep in things that I find interesting. Please, join the discussion and give your opinion.--Berig 16:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh well. Replied there. --Drieakko 16:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Drieakko :-).--Berig 16:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)[edit]

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Image copyright problem with Image:Bartolomeos in Finland.jpg[edit]

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:Bartolomeos in Finland.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 18:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Well that was fast. I hope I got the copyright properly tagged. --Drieakko 18:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Economy of Finland Article[edit]

Hi Drieakko, I would like to know your reasons for reverting the article on Economy of Finland, to which I had contributed with standard infobox (which all other similar national economy articles have but Finland did not) and with a new structure that is not as seemingly infantile as the old one was. Instead of going back to the old edit, I would suggest that editors such as you would expand and modify the new structure and information. The old edit does not stand favorably in comparison to almost any other similar article depicting national economies of similar or even smaller stature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.98.22.198 (talk) 12:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

My bad. Major uncommented edits by anonymous users easily get speedily judged. Good work there. --Drieakko 06:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


Your GA nomination of Finnish Orthodox Church[edit]

The article Finnish Orthodox Church you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold.Symbol wait.svg It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Finnish Orthodox Church for things needed to be addressed. Victor12 03:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)



The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)[edit]

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GA Sweeps Review: On Hold for Finnish-Novgorodian wars[edit]

The article Finnish-Novgorodian wars you have contributed to in the past, has been placed on hold during GA sweeps. It hasn't been removed from GA status yet, because there are a few items that can be fixed for the article to keep its GA status. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will be removed from GA status. See Talk:Finnish-Novgorodian wars for things needed to be addressed. --Nehrams2020 21:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)[edit]

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Fair use rationale for Image:Bartolomeos_in_Finland.jpg[edit]

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"Ilmatar invention" link[edit]

Hi. The link you supplied, "Reasons behind Lönnrot inventing Ilmatar (in Finnish)," is dead. Do you have any other sources? Thanks. Peer Gynt (talk) 12:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter — Issue XXII (December 2007)[edit]

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXII (December 2007)
Project news
Articles of note

New featured articles:

  1. Battle of Albuera
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  3. Battle of the Gebora
  4. Constantine II of Scotland
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New A-Class articles:

  1. 1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing
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Current proposals and discussions
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Tag & Assess 2007

Tag & Assess 2007 is now officially over, with slightly under 68,000 articles processed. The top twenty scores are as follows:

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Finnish War[edit]

This year marks the 200th anniversary on the Finnish War, which we are trying to show here on enwiki. I have recently begun translating the Finnish language wikipedia article into English in order to improve the enwiki article. Would you happen to be interested in helping out in the translation of the article? Otherwise I'll do it myself. It will just take longer. --MoRsE (talk) 00:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election[edit]

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)[edit]

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)[edit]

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Out of curiousity[edit]

Do you have references for the following statement?

Finno-Ugric language spread to Northern Europe presumably 5000-6000 years ago. Finnic and Sami languages separated some 3000-3500 years ago. Ethnically "Sami" groups are not recognizable from archaeological findings of that era. People inhabiting the present-day Sami region back then and Sami people today most likely have nothing else in common except their genetics. --Drieakko 20:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I am curious because I am very critical of all forms of language-split-dating. The most widely accepted such dating attempt that I have heard of (Mikko Korhonen, 1981, Johdatus lapin kielen historiaan, SKS 370, Helsinki) has the proto-uralic language at 4000 B.C. (where you suggest Finno-Ugric language to have arrived into Northern europe) and the proto-Samic-Finnic split at 1000 B.C. (so at least a thousand years later than yours). I do not suggest that you are wrong, I merely would like to check the sources out of personal interest, as I don't particularly agree with Korhonen. Thanks in advance :) --AkselGerner (talk) 21:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

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Image source problem with Image:Archbishop antonij.jpg[edit]

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Kvenland[edit]

The trouble with your reversion of my recent edit of the Kvenland article is that the quotation previously given was extremely inaccurate, whereas my version, and numerous other tidies of sense made by me, were based directly on Alfred's Orosius - just, not a version available online. My edit was quite time consuming to produce, and I should have been grateful if you'd discussed it with me before reverting it. Hopefully I shall find the time soon (maybe today) to resurrect it, based on an online version, and incorporating your correct observation regarding Kvenland's non-appearance in Orosius' original. Thanks. Nortonius (talk) 12:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for comments. Are you saying that the online reference is NOT directly based on Alfred's Orosius? --Drieakko (talk) 12:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Not at all - just that it's important when offering a quotation to stick to what the original actually says, e.g. "meres" vs. "lakes" - but in fact I'm embarrassed to have to admit that I've just noticed the original does speak of "moors", not "mountains"! I'm more concerned though about the inappropriate "harmonisation" of proper nouns (I mentioned in an edit summary that this is better done either via wikilinks, or by subsequent explanation, as it can introduce unwarranted assumptions) in what is stated to be a quotation, a tendency towards paraphrasing in the quotation, and the loss of tidies of sense that I introduced elsewhere in the article: e.g., the article as reverted states that "Carefully read, the lakes are not related to Kvens' attacks against Norwegians" - whereas in fact this is the only reason Ohthere introduces them; and nowhere does Ohthere mention the Sami: if an interpretation of his use of "Finns" is insisted upon, the reasons should be made clear, either in the text or in a footnote. In other words, as reverted the article appears to follow opinion, rather than the facts.
My main concern though is that a fairly extensive and careful attempt at an edit (i.e. mine) was reversed, without discussion. I made it clear what I was doing in my edit summaries. Nortonius (talk) 12:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for acting a bit badly here - the article in question just has a long history of controversies.
The names of places and people have indeed been harmonized to forms used in Wikipedia whenever there is no controversy on them. The "Finns" mentioned by Ohthere were surely Sami people whose Norwegian name is "finn" (there is actually a footnote about this in the article already), and this is nowhere in scientific media questioned. Also, using original names in articles would make them very demanding to read for an average reader. However, original names are always kept in direct quotes so as not to make those harmonizations sound too self-evident. More references are naturally ok to add.
Ohthere's comment about the lakes is placed in the middle of text where the scribes talk about Kvens' attacks against Norwegians. However, the comment itself is independent on the attacks and may quite as well be there just because of later editing by the scribes who have tightened up his story; or perhaps Ohthere just made a side note about the lakes, which is ordinary in normal speech. Similar later editing is evident regarding the "moors" that are sometimes used to mean the Keel mountains and sometimes the northern wilderness - clearly resulting from later unsuccessful fixing by the scribes. About the lakes still, the original words geond ðā mōras are nasty to translate, but keeping in mind the Fennoscandian wide scale of his general story, it feels natural that he refers to the huge lake district in the east, thus making "beyond the moors" sound ok. Especially noteworthy is also that he does not say anything about the lakes when he speaks of the Sami people, making it difficult to interpret the text so that he spoke of the small lakes in Finnmark. Furthermore, there were no Norwegians living on those lakes in the 9th century, making it just pointless for Kvens to attack them.
Please note that most of your edits were really ok and are there still. --Drieakko (talk) 13:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Apology accepted, no problem - evidently this editorial clash arose because I was unaware of previous controversies, so to that extent it's my bad! Also noted is the preservation of a number of items edited by me, thanks.
Understood about the "general reader", but I think it does no harm to exercise their brains a bit, rather than letting them get away with a mere scan of the information - e.g., I do stick by what I said about wikilinking or explaining proper names given in a quotation, rather than presenting a pre-assumed interpretation. For example, and maybe I'm being obtuse here (possibly due to ignorance of previous controversies again!), but I still think it would be better to at least introduce Ohthere's mention of "Finns", and then to move on to their identity as "Sami", given that Sami simply are not mentioned by name in the original account. Mention of Sami is a product of interpretation, which properly ought to be covered in another article, and could be wikilinked (or failing that it could be explained in the present article), thereby avoiding too much work for the general reader. As it stands, the footnote doesn't mention Finns either, only Sami - what I'm getting at is, if people read this article and go away thinking Ohthere (or Alfred) wrote about Sami, they'd be wrong, and Wikipedia would be doing them a disservice. I think that's a pretty basic point...?
I also understand concerns about scribal interpretation - I raised that issue myself, in insisting that Ohthere's account as preserved is not Norwegian, but Old English. Nonetheless, I don't understand what you mean by "the comment itself is independent on the attacks" - the available online text reads:

And ðǣr sint swīðe micel meras fersce geond ðā mōras; and berað ðā Cwēnas hyra scypu ofer land on ðā mēras, and ðanon hergiað on ðā Norðmen...

Doesn't that make a clear connection between the meres (as opposed to "lakes" - I think "meres" is better, as not only being the same word as used in the text, but also in preserving a need to question the meaning - see online Old English dictionary for "mere"), and the attacks? It might help if you could direct me to a recent scholarly edition of the text - i.e., not just one academic's online version - but, I'm beginning to wonder if this is worth all the effort - though I do think I'll have another try at working over the quotation (I'm sorry but I can't bear a paraphrase masquerading as a quotation!), and the more "interpretative" sections of the article. I just think any remaining problems of interpretation (e.g. your understandable concerns about who was living where in the 9th century, and might have been attacked by the Kvens) are really matter for further writing, and shouldn't be skipped over by paraphrasing the quotation. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 14:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for comments. I rephrased the part of article that discusses about the lakes. I hope I got your points covered there now. Translating Orosius seems to be a pain, see e.g. [4] which is quite different from the University of Victoria edition. --Drieakko (talk) 15:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Quite right, about difficulties in translation - which is why I'm being fussy about it. 100% agreement in a modern translation for a text like this is normally impossible, but clarity over the original text is of course essential. Looking at the latest link you gave, I would say that version too has taken some licence with the original, and ends up being ever so slightly tendentious. You may not have registered this, but I'm working from a printed edition, which aims faithfully to reproduce the original text, using a special Old English font: you can see a scanned sample of this printed edition at Ohthere from Hålogaland. It doesn't modernise spellings or punctuation, nor does it expand abbreviations: since this printed text is available, and neither of the available online editions renders the original text perfectly, I'm going with the printed edition. In fact, the translation accompanying the printed edition also seems to be devoid of some potentially tendentious introductions made by the others (e.g. "lakes" for "meres", "portage" for "carry", or simply "bear"), and on closer inspection I now see why it has "mountains" for "moras" (see online Old English dictionary for "mor"): in context, "mountains" does make mores sense than "moors"!
I think I'm simply going to have to be brave (or "bold") here, and re-work the translation and interpretation as before, relying on your forbearance - as I suggested before, it seems to me that the route previously taken in fact does the reader a disservice. In effect, it elides certain information, and so ultimately is a bit lazy. Better to work through it with more wikilinking or writing, than by paraphrasing quotations and offering the reader unexplained assumptions. Of course, if you or any other editor don't approve, you can always change it back again - and I think trying twice will be enough for me, if you see what I mean! I'll get around to it as soon as I can, anyway. Nortonius (talk) 19:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I've now saved another edit of Kvenland, preserving much that I think you were concerned about, but also much that is clear to me. Note especially that there is no doubt in my mind over the interpretation now given for the relevant sections of Alfred's Orosius - e.g., OE "geond" cannot mean "beyond", "moras" could mean "moors" but probably means "mountains", and "þanon" does mean "thence" (or almost synonymously "whence"), so Ohthere (or Alfred) does want us to understand that the Kvens attacked the Norwegians via the mysterious meres! Whether he was right or not is of course another matter, and not for us or anyone else to guess. There are a few other instances where you will see the translation I have given (from Thorpe) varies from the available online translations (e.g. "meres" and "carry"), but these are unequivocal. As I suggested earlier, doing things like replacing "carry" with "portage" is tendentious. I hope you'll be happy with it anyway! And, of course, I have strictly limited myself to editing the introduction and the section on Alfred's Orosius. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 01:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

(undid indent) So pleased that you liked my latest edit! As you can imagine, and are probably aware yourself, it was a bit of a headache sorting all that information! Inevitably there remain one or two items I've spotted for minor tidying - e.g., good for you for adding that external link re "mor", but in the context possible meanings such as "morass" and "swamp" don't really merit a mention even, interesting though they are. So, watch out for any further edits by me, but they will almost certainly be very minor. And, I'm delighted that you picked up on my wish to see "Ohthere from Hålogaland" corrected to "Ohthere of Hålogaland". You will have realised by now that this kind of thing irks me deeply - but moving an article takes a lot of work (some of which I think remains to be done - I just corrected a wikilink to Ohthere's article, which I found in the Norway article).

Better still, thanks for your vote of confidence, in suggesting that I analyse Ohthere's account of his travels more closely! I'm flattered. This does desperately need doing. But, something which has held me back is an unfamiliarity with such details as relevant place name history and topography. Your comment at Talk:Ohthere of Hålogaland regarding Sami/Finns is both very apt (as I now see), and suggests the kind of thing I mean. I could certainly attempt such an analysis, but would need support with these details. See what you think, maybe. Cheers again. Nortonius (talk) 12:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

You are welcome. And I am ready to support you in the Ohthere analysis as soon as help is needed. Sometimes my contributions may feel like blunt objects ;) but the intention is always well-wishing. --Drieakko (talk) 13:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Haha! Ok, I'll have a look at it when I can - I'm very happy dealing with Anglo-Saxon history and sources, but wouldn't want to venture too far into realms unknown without some sort of backup. I'll be in touch then. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 20:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Österland[edit]

You reverted my edits on the 'Swedish era' in the Finland-section by saying "Not fully correct and not a necessary detail. Keep it simple." I fully understand the "keep it simple" part, but what about "not fully correct"? It wasn't fully elaborated, I admit, but the point was to give an idea on how integrated Finland was in the Swedish realm during those hundreds of years. 600 years of common history is pretty much, but that doesn't really show in the article. The point was also to relate that "Finland" as it is today, is geographically not even close to the "Finland" of medieval times. In those days Finland consisted of Finland Proper, and the rest was something else. Österland encompassed a much larger area than "Finland" in those days (half of todays Finland). I thought these things were worth a mention in the main article about Finland. Maybe a link to the article about "Österland" would be good? But then again I'm not really sure about that article. Have you had a look? Ostrobothnian 22:38, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

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Nice to see you editing again[edit]

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Thanks! Having only sporadic time nowadays for Wikipedia, but maybe returning with better time later. --Drieakko (talk) 00:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

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Many thanks,  Roger Davies talk 04:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

RE: Birka's location and port[edit]

RE: Birka's location and port

Article quote!

The following definition remains even more mysterious:

"In pity of their errors, our archbishop ordained as their diocesan capital Birka, which is in the middle of Sweden (Sueoniae) facing Jumne (Iumnem), the capital of the Slavs, and equally distant from all the coasts of the surrounding sea." (IV 20)

Since it is physically impossible for any Swedish town to face Jumne, the latter being situated along River Oder, Adam's statement is probably a misunderstanding. No place having a similar name to Birka is known to have situated on the opposite shore of Oder, so it may be possible that something similar to Jumne was located opposite to Birka.

End article quote!

If you use the knowledge of the times and look at The Tabula Rogeriana, drawn by Al-Idrisi for Roger II of Sicily in 1154 (80 years later but should be accurate for the times as a lot of coping of other map work was being done), it appears as if it could be across from, or facing Jumne. This copy is not clear enough to read. (NOTE: Down is north, as original drawn.... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/TabulaRogeriana.jpg )

A compass point on Birka (30 Km west of Stockholm) and a quick swing of the pencil will show that the points of modern day Finland, Estonia, and Latvia are an equal distance. A fact the sailors of that time would have been very familiar with and reported back. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baltic_Sea_map.png )

I do not have research facilities available to follow up and would like to hear your view. Thank you for the article, keep up the good work. Hugin Ok Munin (talk) 06:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Found a better map labeled:

Axel Anton Bjørnbo, Map of northern Europe as envisioned by Adam of Bremen, arbøger for nordisk Oldkyndighed og Historie [Journal of Scandinavian Antiquities and History], 1909

From: http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/vinland/vikinglife/4742en.html

If this is accurate, Birka is shown across from/facing the mouth of the Odor River in Adam thinking. Can this be checked? Thanks again. Hugin Ok Munin (talk) 04:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The latter map may have be drawn after the fact!! Hugin Ok Munin (talk) 21:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXIII, May 2011[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXV, July 2011[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXVI, August 2011[edit]

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll[edit]

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVII, September 2011[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXVIII, October 2011[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011[edit]

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Military Historian of the Year[edit]

Nominations for the "Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.

The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXII, March 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXIII, April 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012[edit]

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GOCE July 2012 Copy Edit Drive[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXVI, July 2012[edit]

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Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll[edit]

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXVII, August 2012[edit]

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Military history coordinator election[edit]

The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the projectwhat coordinators do) 08:56, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXVIII, September 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXIX, October 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXX, November 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXI, December 2012[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXII, January 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIII, February 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIV, March 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013[edit]

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election[edit]

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 16:31, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXXX, September 2013[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for November 7[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Boris, Hereditary Prince of Montenegro, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages French, Italian and Portuguese (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for November 19[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Taiwan Relations Act, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Wuqiu (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Wikipedian in community notice[edit]

Dear Drieakko

As a Wikipedian interested in African subjects and specifically Uganda, we thought you might be interested in the following opportunity.

WikiAfrica is looking for a Wikipedian in Community from Uganda to play a pivotal role in its Kumusha Takes Wiki project. This might be a position that you would consider. Or it could be the perfect opportunity for someone you know from this country, please spread the word! For more details, please look at this page: http://www.wikiafrica.net/call_for_wir_en/

If you have any questions about the above, please contact isla on isla [at] wikiafrica [dot] net : Isla Haddow (talk)

Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma[edit]

Hello, this is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place in Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma, being considered for deletion. Thank you. PhyoWP *click 07:02, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013[edit]

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Notification of automated file description generation[edit]

Your upload of File:Altar of julius caesar.jpg or contribution to its description is noted, and thanks (even if belatedly) for your contribution. In order to help make better use of the media, an attempt has been made by an automated process to identify and add certain information to the media's description page.

This notification is placed on your talk page because a bot has identified you either as the uploader of the file, or as a contributor to its metadata. It would be appreciated if you could carefully review the information the bot added. To opt out of these notifications, please follow the instructions here. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 11:51, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

  • Another one of your uploads, File:Bishop thomas.jpg, has also had some information automatically added. If you get a moment, please review the bot's contributions there as well. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 13:28, 6 February 2014 (UTC)


The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014[edit]

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File:Bishop thomas.jpg[edit]

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Bishop thomas.jpg[edit]

A tag has been placed on File:Bishop thomas.jpg, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

This image is still copyrighted (until 2023). Copyright in Finland lasts for 70 years after the death of the painter.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. The Yeti 14:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Alexander nevsky.jpg[edit]

Thank you for uploading File:Alexander nevsky.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

If the necessary information is not added within the next days, the image will be deleted. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

Please refer to the image use policy to learn what images you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. Please also check any other files you have uploaded to make sure they are correctly tagged. Here is a list of your uploads. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Psychonaut (talk) 15:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue C, July 2014[edit]

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