User talk:Dweller

Blunders are too easy here

--JayEB (talk) 18:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC) A new account should be guided to a one-page tutorial, and the new user
should be required to click a box indicating that they understand that
one-page tutorial (with blunder avoidance tips).

It's actually not so easy to find the tutorial section on your own,
and I am still-living proof that you can break a lot of expensive glassware
with only the best intentions. I don't want to see the Logarithm article
disappear before my eyes, but that's what I caused.

I did not recognize that revising after a preview is dangerous, in that IF the
editing box has secretly emptied, then that's what will show on the article.
I tested this in sandbox today. I changed my first preview, and the new preview
was fine. But though a second preview looked good, the edit box had secretly emptied,
and that "empty space" appeared on the article. And I could not undo that.
Maybe there should be a 922 button for blunder assistance.
But I need more tutorial time.
UPDATE: Before I posted this from preview, I noticed that the
edit box had secretly emptied. So one precaution is to not post
after a preview. This goes to press without a preview .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by JayEB (talk • contribs) 18:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello. I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying. Previewing and then revising does not create problems, it's considered good practice (I've previewed this response three times and tweaked it!)... unless, I suppose, you get an WP:EDITCONFLICT. Does that link help? NB it looks like you're typing messages into a word processor and then pasting them here. That creates the weird formatting problems that make your post look like a poem. --Dweller (talk) 13:14, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Your repeated inability to put real refs into Aggers... do stop it Dwellers...

Dude, this sentence: "He did, however, play three One Day Internationals (ODIs) on that tour, two in India and one in Australia.[33] " ref 33 is that useless link that doesn't do what you want it to do. I may be able to help, but you need to tell me what you typed into Cricket Archive to get what you thought was a decent result? (P.S. Budgies doing alright, eh?) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:02, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and in a little bit of looking around Cricket Archive, I found this which is a nice shoe-in for him appearing for the JP Getty XI should you wish for its inclusion? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:04, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Finally, what was ref name=cap (currently ref 52) supposed to point to? You have a massive red error at the bottom of the page right now saying that you haven't actually defined what ref name=cap really is...! Quick Google of the quote didn't help me... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:10, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, super finally, did you see the the Cricinfo profile of him has his nicknames as Spiro and Agers [sic], not Aggers? Wow! Are you going to email him at TMS to tell him when we finally get this article a bronze star by the way?? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:37, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Whoosh. Which of these are still live issues? PS Thanks for all the editing over the weekend. --Dweller (talk) 12:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

All of the above (although I think I sorted the last one... can't remember!). No worries! The Rambling Man (talk) 12:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Ref 33 works perfectly. Maybe you already fixed it? --Dweller (talk) 13:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes, I recall, you had a CricketArchive generic "oracle" link which didn't lead anywhere, I replaced it with a Cricinfo link. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Coolio. "Cap" seems to be fine as well. --Dweller (talk) 13:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Man I'm good. I think some of them you use ref name=cap and others you used ref name="cap" which clearly wouldn't work...! So that just leaves the tidbits re:JP Getty and Agers [sic]. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:45, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Getty, no thanks. Agers? Ridiculous. We need to source both nicks for the infobox. We could cricinfo for Spiro and one of his books for the other? Or any one of dozens of RS? --Dweller (talk) 14:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

It was (a) because prior to the overhaul, there was a list of "other teams" he'd appeared for, so just wondered... and (b) because he has probably one of the most famous nicknames in cricket and Cricinfo had it wrong. Just noted it for fun really...! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Feedback Dashboard task force

Hi Dweller,

I noticed you replied to some feedback from the new Feedback Dashboard feature – you might be interested in the task force Steven Walling and I just created for this purpose: Wikipedia:Feedback Dashboard. Thanks for diving in on your own and helping the newbies, and I hope you'll sign up! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 00:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Otium

How do I go about getting Otium reassessed to possible B-Class and getting an assessment of "importance" on the WikiProjects?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The WikiProjects tend to come along when they're ready, but you can always drop them a line at their respective project talk pages and request a review. Or see who's active in each project and contact them directly. I've no experience with B class articles, I'm afraid, so you're asking the wrong person. Why not find a B class article and see who it was that tagged it and ask them? --Dweller (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

O.K. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

commons

Do you mind moving File:RavMosheKever.jpg to commons? Chesdovi (talk) 11:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand. Why would I mind it being moved? --Dweller (talk) 11:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

File:Sofermausoleum.jpg, this one too, I am asking you please to move it. Chesdovi (talk) 11:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Transwiki stuff isn't my forte - I don't know anything about it. Is this something only admins can do? --Dweller (talk) 12:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

ok. Now I see normal people can actually. Chesdovi (talk) 12:55, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

TB

Hello, Dweller. You have new messages at Sven Manguard's talk page.
Message added 16:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Sven Manguard Wha? 16:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Noor Aftab

Hello Dweller. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Noor Aftab, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Article has been edited since it was tagged and is no longer a copyvio. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

A good result. I opted not to delete it myself because I didn't have the time to look through in detail. Stubbing it and listing at AfD was good work, thank you. --Dweller (talk) 11:01, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Input requested

WT:New editor feedback#Proposed office hours. Thanks, Steven Walling (WMF) • talk 21:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

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Animal traping

I excluded Polish interwiki since it is about American trappers, not about animal trapping in general. Olegwiki (talk) 10:39, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks. What about including en:? --Dweller (talk) 11:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Googly

Hi,Thanks for your direction.I saw you've undid my version and i'm glad for that.I found naming some bowlers' name in other pages like Doosra, so i too planned to add those guys name.Nothing more personal :) . What should i do if i join The Cricket WikiProject? Thanks Abdul raja (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!!! I've added my name in that list. Hope i can make something!!! Thanks for your guidance. Abdul raja (talk) 12:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Tamil

Yes.My Mother Tongue is Tamil. How you got it? I'm in Tamil Wiki also. Abdul raja (talk) 13:44, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Diacritics being discussed on Jimbo’s talk page

I’ve mentioned the way you (properly so, in my opinion) closed a move request on an article. The discussion is here on Jimbo’s talk page. If you can add anything of value to the discussion (I suspect you can given your recent expertise in this area), it would probably be helpful over there. I think your participation would certainly improve the quality of the discussion. Greg L (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Liverpool in European Football

Hey Dweller, just to let you know I've responded to your comments at the FAC, Cheers. NapHit (talk) 10:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

"Vital" article feedback

I saw your post at Jimbo's talk page; it seems to reflect the same general methodological problems that most readers have identified, there's pretty good consensus on the flaws in the analysis, but since most of the feedback is consolidated at WT:FAC, and there is little at Jimbo's talk, it might be helpful for you to also add your post to the ongoing discussion at WT:FAC so it's all kept in one place. TCO's multiple accounts and IP edits already make following the matter hard enough. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:39, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

The core contest is Wikipedia:The_Core_Contest here - see the link to entries. It achieved useful results I think (as a runner-up), although Danny then announced he couldn't afford the cash prizes after all. About a year later a very kind user/editor who had not been involved paid them. Contrary to what many would have you believe, my entry Raphael has not been very hard to maintain since, despite getting over a million views a year. Johnbod (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks. --Dweller (talk) 16:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Aggers FAC

You forgot to transclude it to the FAC page! I did it and left a note to say so; looks good, by the way and I'll try to chip in during the next few days. --Sarastro1 (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. And any talk page stalkers who're interested, please do visit the Jonathan Agnew FAC! --Dweller (talk) 20:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I think I covered all but one of Brian's comments, the last "content" one so that's yours to deal with. Awesomeness. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

My scanner is currently up the spout, but as the section(s) aren't too long, I could stick them on Aggers' talk page if you want. I also found some stuff in a truly dreadful book about when Ray Illingworth was chairman of selectors, written by Jack Bannister. It has a lot on the dirt-in-pocket and talks about Aggers' role. I can stick that on too if it helps. Let me know. --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:39, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

That'd be great. If you can find anything about Aggers and the selectors while a player - especially Titmus - I'd be interested, as I've seen lots of RS that knowingly wink at the issue without detailing it. --Dweller (talk) 10:25, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I've put the Wisden and Bannister stuff on talk for you to have a look at. Let me know if there is anything else from there that you want. I'll dig to see if I have any other stuff on his non-selection and the selectors. Unfortunately, I doubt it, but ... --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Feedback Dashboard upgrade

Hi Dweller,

Thanks for signing up for the Feedback Dashboard response team! I wanted to let you know that the tool just got an important update (see here for details). I also wanted to invite you to the IRC office hours session that Steven and I are going to hold this Sunday, December 4. Hope you can make it and share your experience/questions with us! Thanks again, Maryana (WMF) (talk) 23:54, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Google Books string

Hi Dweller, sorry not Doug. How did you come up with the Google Books results for Jacob-ben-Meir. That's a string search on a single term, Jacobbenmeir. It shouldn't be affected by loose Jacobs and Meirs. What number did you get? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi again, I've redone those GB searches from every angle and I'm sorry but appears you must have not entered the search as a string. Do you think you could possibly check and then could you please go back to Talk:Judaism and correct the message you left there, I'd prefer not to post disagreeing if possible. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:56, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Ooooopppppssss

sorry about that. — Ched :  ?  20:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

No worries - it makes me smile every time! --Dweller (talk) 21:29, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Ya know .. literally for years I've thought that you and Dougweller were one and the same - just variations on the sig. I figure a)I really need to tay appention better .. or b) I really need to get these glasses renewed. :) (yea .. that's my variation of "pay attention" ... probably sounds better than it looks ... lol) — Ched :  ?  22:17, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

As you can tell from this page, you're not the first person and you definitely won't be the last. And hey, Doug's a great editor, so I'm flattered by the confusion really. --Dweller (talk) 23:49, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Well,

it's certainly going to be less humorous if you remove the humor! ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 13:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

LOL! There's some humour in here, if you're interested. At least, I think it's funny, anyway. --Dweller (talk) 13:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

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Stand up if you beat Bayern

FYI Oldelpaso (talk) 01:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Peer review thanks

Just a word of thanks for your help in the past week or so, as a result of which the PR backlog is under control again. Much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Agnew early career

I'm a bit loath to edit the Agnew article when you and TRM are making such as good job of putting it into some order. But as someone thought the early career stuff was a bit thin you might be interested in a snippet I found in The Times about his injury-proneness early on. It's from the issue of 28 October 1980 under the heading "Another setback for Agnew" (page 9, issue No 60761) and reads:

The promising Leicestershire fast bowler, Jonathan Agnew, aged 22 [sic], is being flown home from Australia after contracting glandular fever. He was to have spent the winter playing for a club side.

Mike Turner, the Leicestershire secretary-manager, said: "It's a great disappointment because Jonathan had just returned to his best form after battling for 12 months to recover from a back injury."

I'll go on perusing copies of The Times from his early cricket days and will post anything sensible I find here, or on the talk page if you prefer. Johnlp (talk) 23:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

That's just magic, thank you. I take it you have a subscription, which is brilliant. Might ask you a favour on a different topic. Please paste it all (including above) to Aggers talk page, perhaps in your own section to avoid e/c? --Dweller (talk) 23:25, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I joined my local library just to get access to The Times archives: they only go up to 1985 (thereafter you have to pay money to the current owner, which I'm not inclined to do). But they're invaluable for older (and better-connected) players. You can trace Agnew's ancestry pretty well through their court and social pages, for instance. Johnlp (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

That Agger's ref

Ref 85 (The Times one you added) provides me with nothing we can use as citation paramaters. I don't even get a headline or anything, I just get redirected to the homepage... The Rambling Man (talk) 15:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey, you're famous

See today's NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/nyregion/rabbi-pintos-followers-blame-aides-for-missing-millions.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp --Mosmof (talk) 19:05, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Great. I've been selectively misquoted. They missed out an important word. Now, where's my lawyer? --Dweller (talk) 19:11, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Play nice!

We can't help it we're Dutch. Congrats on getting your name in the paper, by the way, and thanks for the copy edit. OK, your edit summary, I say those kinds of things too--Mrs. Drmies hates me for it. All the best, Drmies (talk) 14:37, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's a first...

Oopsie. Perhaps better luck for us next year? Maybe a new mandate appeared at FAC lately, I've seen nominations running for months. Seemed a little harsh considering how much work we'd put into it during candidacy (and given our previous contributions, both in nominations and reviews at FAC) but hey ho, that's why FAC is dying on its arse I suppose, like the rest of Wikipedia. I think I need a break. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Demi Moore

I would be absolutely happy to take you up on your generous offer. It's a confounding issue, and I much admire your courage and optimism in volunteering to mediate. I hope the others in this case feel that mediation is as appropriate as I do. With thanks, Tenebrae (talk) 18:55, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello again, Dweller. I think we can see by the fact that I'm willing to have mediation and discuss things like a grownup, while the others continue to snipe at me with, honest to God, "liar, liar, pants on fire" in an edit summary like they're six years old, that they're not interested. What do you recommend? An RfC? --Tenebrae (talk) 01:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I recommend you stop belittling other users by referring to them as six year olds. All your comments here show a battlefield position. - Youreallycan (talk) 01:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy Xmas

	Merry Christmas
	From me, a happy NSW Xmas bush Xmas from us all down here in Oz (damn, should have 5x expanded that for this Xmas...is there still time I wonder....) Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:47, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Dude

Happy New Year my friend. I wish all the best, the very best, to you and yours. Also sort-of glad to see your budgies doing alright. Stick it to the man, I think someone once said.

Sadly, right now, I find Wikipedia to be particularly unpleasant when my seeming naivety has been cited in an Arbcom circus. SandyGeorgia has decided to name me as a complicit member of the community, avoiding "punishing" one member while seemingly passively acknowledging and allowing another to be a wanker. They're both wanders, and I'm not sure what got her goat, but in any case it's a crock and feels like Kanga and Roo would be at home. Last time I bother giving that crew my time, not that they would care.

Right, moving on. I'll be soon to leave these Wiki-shores, (this whole "save the whale/malleus/you're a c-word" is beyond belief") but perhaps we can talk privately sometime. Much love to you and Family Dweller. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello. Yes, I noticed that. I don't think it's anything much to worry about - it barely deserves a reply. "Erm, I didn't notice" would probably suffice. Sandy is very upset over Malleus. Personally, I don't really get it. I think his writing is outstanding, but he seemed (OR here) to have been trying to stir up trouble of late. Well, trouble (aka disruption) has arrived. A shame. Happy new one and enjoy the break. --Dweller (talk) 21:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Cheers. MF is a good writer but sometimes a piss-poor collaborator.. Such is life. But Sandy citing me as an admin who was allegedly watching a situation (because TCO's page was one of my 5,400 pages on my watch list) and not doing anything about it (despite me not seeing it) is a fucking poke in the eye. MF can be a dick, TCO can be dick, we can all be a dick, but citing a list of talk page watchers is unbelievable tenuous and really really really unhelpful. I won't worry about, but it's a shit start to 2012 from the so-called "community". I think I'll delete all of my watch list to stop this happening again. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

You're both wrong (about my intent, about me being upset, about every assumption you've made here), but I doubt it will be useful to try to convince you of anything, or get you to develop another perspective, until you're calmer (TRM, haven't we been down this path before? that is, your thin skin and how often you got upset on Raul's talk page while not getting that there was no problem?). TRM, you are cited as absolutely nothing, and I'm sorry the 500-word limit prevents me from making a better case, and if you can't wait for me to figure a way around the 500-word limit to solve that problem, can't help it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:19, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

No Sandy, just sick of being mystery-cited for something I "haven't done". There's no 500-word limit anywhere other than at Arbcom which is the first place I hear some kind of tacit complaint about my negligence. And yes, thin skin, but what is it you're citing me for? Double standards? I'm not sure. Are you sure? What a crap situation. What would you have me do better so that I wasn't cited in your list at Arbcom? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:24, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

YOu are seriously too thin-skinned ... I doubt that anyone thinks that list is about them personally, it's not, and the more of my time you take in having to explain that, the less likely I can get over there and try to find out how to fix it. You are cited for nothing except watchlisting TCO's page, which means nothing to anyone, the point that needs to be made about Malleus hasn't been made because I hit the 500-word limit, but you've decided to go ballistic about something that means nothing. Go figure. I'd bend over backwards to assure that there really is no issue here, except that it troubles me that we've been down this road so many times before, and I wonder why you so often over-react when people reassure you, as in previous instances, that there is no problem, or in this case, that I see the problem and am trying to figure out how to fix it. Really, chill out-- I'm losing any motivation to even try to fix it based on these discussions, where frankly you are whining without giving me time to figure out what to do about the 500-word limit or how to address the problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Sandy, I interpreted this, followed by your 'go fly a kite' wikibreak as being upset. If you prefer your choice of word, "disgusted", I'm happy to replace it. As for calmness, I'm totally calm about the MF situation. Just a little saddened. --Dweller (talk) 23:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Nope, and I never did get back to you on that-- the "go fly a kite" was a reaction to TCO adherents attempting to TFA Tourette syndrome just as I was gearing up to overhaul it (they've decided that only articles with high page views like TS should be TFA), after dedicating most of December to a funeral, and then seeing Hawkeye7 flaunt his FAs in a way that will bring further ill upon FAC. Anyway, after all that, it's kind of interesting that TRM's name is on the arb case anyway. But no, my "disgust" was unrelated to you or Malleus. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Not whining, just getting sick of this nonsense trauma crap. Get rid of disruptive editors, and don't passively accuse others of wrongdoing, within Arbcom's 500-word limit. There's no reassurance here, there's nothing other than an accusation of malpractice. Really Sandy, we have had this situation before but I've never been an admin who deliberately ignored "pussy juice" or whatever you found so wrong. Never. Sorry I missed it, I've told TCO to piss off and ask others to deal with him in the recent past so be to be cited as someone who watched his talk page and missed the bit where the world exploded is lame. There's NO 500-WORD LIMIT HERE or elsewhere, other than at Arbcom. Do me the courtesy of using more than 500 words, on my talk page or somewhere neutral, to let me know why you bothered to include me as a named admin in this situation. You left me a message about five minutes before midnight on NYE telling me I was cited at an Arbcom case, now you're accusing me of whining. Well sorry Sandy, get a grip, you're the whinger here. I was nothing to do with ANY of this, but you dragged my sorry ass into it. Think about it. (Sorry Dweller) The Rambling Man (talk) 23:10, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

(sigh)....at least the cricket (finally) has been quite fun to watch the last couple of days :)) Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh, I can't believe Sachin hasn't made his landmark yet, and now Clarke's gone and done a triple ton. Of course, Sachin may decide to do it tomorrow to steal Clarke's thunder....! The Rambling Man (talk) 08:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Jordan Rhodes

If he keeps going like this, I could write a List of Jordan Rhodes hat-tricks 2011–12 article. Legit. Five already, what the... ? I wish Roy Keane hadn't sold him, but what can I do? All I find myself doing now is watching the budgies on some stream somewhere, and they keep winning. Not fair, not fair at all. Bon weekend. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:Forum

Hi, What is the official tranquilizer when WP:Forum is pushed to the limit as it has been on the Shroud of Turin page? There is no edit war (yet) but as you have seen there are two editors with a desire to discuss the matter more than anything else. It is just taking up time to even calm them down. What is the best way to calm this before it gets out of control? Thanks. History2007 (talk) 22:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

This confused me no end. Until I realised confusion is contagious. Please see point three in the coloured box at the top of this page. Tell him I said "hi". --Dweller (talk) 23:07, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand. Sorry. History2007 (talk) 03:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

No worries, it's far from being an insult. --Dweller (talk) 10:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

FLC in the pipeline

Thanks for your copyedit of the old Euro finals list. Thought you'd be more interested in another little listy thing I'm expanded right now? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:43, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a squint. So, no Mark Hughes for you lot then, once your scouser gets the can. Unless Hughes does a Clough at Leeds... I've never understood why Hughes is so highly rated - what is it about his record that makes people think he's a manager who's achieved much? --Dweller (talk) 10:40, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

No, all the money's going on Colin right now. We're playing tonight, away at Birmingham... another loss on the cards. Oh, thanks for looking at the list by the way. I hadn't looked at the lead (that wasn't my work!), but I did write pretty much all of the history section... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

On the article, I'll do what I can. Colin is a magnificent nickname. Whoever thought it up is a genius. He's perfect for what QPR used (and I mean used) him - get you up and then ditch him before you settle into relegation dogfights or at best mediocrity. I thought he might retire. If he does, good riddance. --Dweller (talk) 11:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

You know it's part of an anagram of his name, right? You know his anagramatical surname? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:52, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes! Did you think I was being sarcastic? It's perfect for him. He is an utter W. --Dweller (talk) 12:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Sometimes tempting to leave vandalism on his page!! Only kidding TPS folk... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Your Offer of Mediation

Since you extended an offer of mediation to User:Tenebrae in relation to the Demi Moore article, I would like to take up that offer if it's still on the table - I'm not proud of some of my own responses in that debate but after repeated requests [1][2] that Tenebrae refrain from personal attacks,[3][4][5] and comment on content not contributor he has again failed to abide by the request. [6] For his benefit, I would rather that at this stage, a mediator steps in if possible, rather than taking my concerns and both of our actions to a more formal or binding discussion such as WQA or RFC/U. If it is possible for you to do this then it would be appreciated. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 23:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm still happy to do this. However, for it to work, in my experience, all of the parties need to participate. Tenebrae and yourself have both said you're happy. What about the others? I don't want to coerce anyone - it's voluntary and me pushing too hard would start us off on a bad footing. --Dweller (talk) 09:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

That's understood, I'm not sure about the others I think tempers are frayed all round so you're probably right - I'm going to try taking the RFC in another direction and see whether it helps, but I remain open to other options. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 18:33, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Stuart.Jamieson said nothing when others were using active insults against me. I, on the other hand, have been criticizing Jamieson's obsessive behavior, and not calling him a doo-doo head, or whatever he thinks.

And now he's going to "change the direction" of the RfC? No. How can someone unilaterally declare that the RfC is something different from how it was originally presented? That's the kind of maddening presumptiveness that this person continually displays.

He and I are the only ones in need of mediation. The others have said their piece, and we know where they stand. If Jamieson is truly sincere in his request for mediation, I've been ready to go for weeks now, which I hope shows my genuine sincerity and good faith — had he taken you up on your generous offer then, much of the acrimony would have been avoided. --Tenebrae (talk) 20:12, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

And again with the personal attacks - Tenebrae you set a wide locus of discussion when you set the remit of the RFC as "how best to balance Demi Moore's recent Twitter statements that "Demi" is her birth name in light of two decades' reporting in WP:RS publications that her birth name is "Demetria."" there are many directions a conversation can take within that locus and you cannot unilaterally declare what direction that discussion should take at which time within it. I don't know how much experience you have within processes such as RFC or similar (such as AFD) but you seem to show an unfamiliarity with those processes and aggression when any editor attempts to use those processes in a correct way but one which you are not familiar (or in agreement?) with. I welcome mediation but if you issue any further personal attacks without addressing content then I will have to refer your civility issues upward. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 20:37, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Legitimate criticism is not a personal attack.

I've been on Wikipedia for 6 1/2 years and over 60,500 edits. In that time I've amassed many friends and have mentored many newcomers; I'm the grateful recipient of award-recognition from them. I've been in RfCs before, and I know this: You cannot "change the direction" of it on your own personal whim. As I said, you're perfectly entitled to start a new RfC. But you cannot unilaterally change it from what it is to something you like better. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:25, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Moving this forward

I've changed my mind. I think going to mediation asap would be good for Wikipedia. If the two of you agree, let's do it. Hopefully between us we can resolve this and other editors will either join us along the way or will tweak or accept whatever we can work out.

To be clear, this offer is open to both of you and to anyone else who has been involved in the dispute.

Please read the following very long sentence really carefully... and bear with me :-)

If you agree to mediation on the Demi Moore issues, and agree to participate in a process following rules I set that might seem a little fussy at first, but are based on my experience of how to generate an atmosphere that is conducive to producing an agreement, please click through to this page and just sign your name with no further comment here, there or on Talk:Demi Moore (or, on the subject of this dispute, anywhere else for that matter) for now.

Thank you. --Dweller (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

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Military Historian of the Year

Nominations for the "Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D (talk) and Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 23:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.

Wikipedia blackout

I just got a press release from the Wikipedia Foundation saying English-language Wikipedia is staging a 24-hour blackout on Wednesday to protest (as well it should) the SOPA legislation before Congress. Darn good way to get people's attention to that frightening bill.--Tenebrae (talk) 01:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: Mediation

Stuart Jamieson is breaking his word and editing Talk:Demi Moore. I reverted his post and added a note at the mediation that we had agreed not to edit that page or make any other comment about the issue outside the mediation page. Now, he has restored the disallowed post. I reverted it again. This is so childish. I'm at my wits' end. Is there any way to enforce our keeping our word, or has he poisoned the well of mediation? --Tenebrae (talk) 19:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for handling things the way that you handled them. I think your notes to Stuart and me were evenhanded and diplomatic. I'm sure I speak for both of us in expressing regret that this issue required even more time and effort than you've already graciously volunteered toward resolving this long-running issue. With gratitude, Tenebrae (talk) 13:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure. Let's all keep trying all we can to resolve the situation. Avoiding extra conflict is the best way to achieve this. --Dweller (talk) 14:06, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid things are getting very heated again at Demi Moore and at Talk:Demi Moore. Your mediating help is urgently requested. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Aggers

Worth considering a re-nom? I think we dealt with all the outstanding issues, just didn't any supports in time... whaddyareckon? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:31, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Love it. Care to do the honours? --Dweller (talk) 12:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

It's a good job for you lot that there are three spectacularly incompetent teams, as opposed to merely incompetent, in The Championship. --Dweller (talk) 13:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't I know it. And watching your lot play over the weekend, v. jealous. Aggers transcluded. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Muchas gracias. Maybe we should let some of the participants know. --Dweller (talk) 13:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Your call really, it seemed to get quite a bit of interest last time round. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:29, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. Because of the archive2 system, the FAC page doesn't light up on watchlists. They might notice it if they have the article talk on their lists. --Dweller (talk) 13:31, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Well {{sofixit}}....! 13:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Baton passed, did a bit at Aggers, bring it on.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

That ref 88 is still of no use to man nor dog. Doesn't go anywhere for me, if you've paid for the subs, you'll need to tell me the author, title, publication date etc for me to fill the ref in... The Rambling Man (talk) 13:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't have access. Going offwiki for some time. I wonder if a WP:CRIC member might have access? --Dweller (talk) 13:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

No way of citing it with another, more friendly and accessible source? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe... btw the Barry Johnston book page number is 267. --Dweller (talk) 15:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The author is Michael Atherton, writing in The Times and the date is 4 August 2008. As it's going to be a citation to a web page, I presume we don't need a page number. Do we need anything else? --Dweller (talk) 17:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the show/hide thingy (I know what you mean but have no idea what they are called) are frowned on at FAC as they mess up the page or the archives. However, if you want to move my comments to the talk page (which I think is more officially approved), I have no objection at all. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I've moved my comments on Aggers to the talk page to clear up some space; I hadn't been back for a while and noticed that it was getting crowded. --Sarastro1 (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

further to the discussion about when Agnew started with TMS and the BBC, I have now cited some references on the article's talk page. Regards, Dean B (talk) 07:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

thanks

I only have like 16k edits .. but I'm thinking I might want my real name might want to go away. I just wanted to know what was possible, and didn't want any high drama involved. — Ched :  ?  13:01, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

No problem and no drama. Let me know if you'd like it changed. --Dweller (talk) 13:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

thank you. I've addressed things from a real life perspective, and may do this change in the near future; but I think it best if I put the change on hold for just a bit in case I need to address any loose ends on wiki. I'll be in touch a bit later. — Ched :  ?  03:24, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

huh???

????? paint me lost. :) — Ched :  ?  01:10, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I am utterly gobsmacked. You could knock me down with a feather. --Dweller (talk) 09:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Ahhh .. ok. Sometimes I feel so isolated here in the US, and even the term "football" takes on an entirely different meaning here - but hey - I'm learning to throw darts .. does that count for anything? :) — Ched :  ?  12:40, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, indeed it does. See if you can hear some youtube coverage of this genius in action. He's the best thing about darts. --Dweller (talk) 12:47, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview

Dear Dweller,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 05:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Nearly there...

Okay, so we have just Axl's hit-and-run left, there seems to be no dialogue there so all we can do is wait for an image check and a source spotcheck.... I haven't seen a FAC promoted lately without both of those.... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Who could we ask to do them? --Dweller (talk) 10:52, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll ask Sandy... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Clearly not the right place to go right now. Maybe you can look into it... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

New comment in from Ucucha, and I just re-read Sandy's response to my request, starting with: "Dweller and The Rambling Man, please go find another Pollyanna sucker to ask for help when there's a problem...." so I guess we need to look elsewhere, although the image check has now been done by the looks of it. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Six different replies written and deleted before I pressed Save page. --Dweller (talk) 09:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I know how that feels. I sent you a brief email btw. Can you rephrase that awkward sentence? I tried but failed. My brain hurts too much this morning for creative writing and with the above, I feel a little grumpy. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Rename

Hey there, I emailed you a couple of weeks ago as well but never heard back. Could you please help with my rename request. At the moment, I think I'm attracting too much attention by using my actual name. Could you please change my username to MHDH. I'd appreciate that, thanks! Hassan514 (talk) 13:49, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

A couple of weeks? It was about 9 months ago! Sorry it never happened then... it's done now. --Dweller (talk) 14:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Lol, i think I even sent you a request recently as well. Didn't remember it was you I spoke to then too. Thanks for doing it now! MHDH (talk) 15:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

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An appeal for mediation

Hi, Dweller. I know the real world of making a living, caring for family and all the rest is more important than what is, essentially, for most of us, a hobby. And I know you know how much I, and I'm sure everyone else involved, appreciates the time that you've been able to give in a generous attempt at helping mediate what seems an intractable issue.

It's only becoming more so, across three pages now (User:Dweller/Demi Moore, User talk:Dweller/Demi Moore, and Talk:Demi Moore). Accusations of bad faith and much more are flying, with Jimbo Wales' name now being invoked (not by me). So I wonder now if, despite all your good efforts, this whole mess should go to arbitration. What do you think? Would it be too much to ask that you shepherd this issue there to give it a foothold? What is your advice? With respect and regards, Tenebrae (talk) 15:47, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi, a long time ago you encouraged me to consider adminship. Finally got round to it: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fayenatic london – Fayenatic (talk) 21:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your support; my RfA was successful and nearly unanimous. Be among the first to see my L-plate! – Fayenatic L (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Apologies about Demi

Apologies. I couldn’t believe that you personally would be seriously involved in a dispute over such a matter. (I thought it was a hypothetical excercise by several, and I thought everyone was being too reasonable.) My fault for not checking, and discovering that you are facilitating.

I hope to make some amends by offering a positive contribution. There is a lot read, and I am a slow reader. My leaning at this stage is to suggesting a more cautious sticking to what other reliable and reputable independent secondary sources have already said on the subject. I see this as significantly in the field of “verifiability not truth”. I see people making references to secondary sources, and I think these need critical review, taking a firm historiological definition of “secondary source”. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:35, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Can you explain what you're saying about secondary sources? --Dweller (talk) 19:07, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Many editors have a poor working definition of "secondary sources", which are the sources on which we should base decisions on what to cover. This does not seem to be the problem in this case. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:40, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

An amuse bouche perhaps...?

Hey, I thought that, perhaps instead of heading into the darkness of cricket, we could get listified, and have a good stab at List of Norwich City F.C. managers? Whaddya reckon? The Rambling Man (talk) 14:31, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Nice idea. Looks like we put a considerable amount of work into it and then abandoned it, mysteriously. Any idea why? These things have usually been caused by a lacuna in sources. --Dweller (talk) 14:45, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Soccerbase is our friend and if we can find anything else, so much the better. I'll do the technical table bits, you need to get your head into righting a "brief history of managers" as an "history" style section before the table, then we sit back and wait for the applause....! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

You're on. Another piece of the mythical Norwich City FT jigsaw? --Dweller (talk) 14:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

(Link filled in above) yes, why not. You may need to re-check the other members of the topic which are already featured though, when I got Ipswich to FT a few years ago, standards were, .... well.... lower! The Rambling Man (talk) 15:00, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

A reasonably good model is List of Birmingham City F.C. managers although the lead on that is a little dated. The concept of the history section is sound though. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:15, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll work on it around RL and the mediation I'm trying to help with. --Dweller (talk) 08:37, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Note: the "Assessment" section really, honestly should form perhaps one sentence in this whole article. If you think I'm wrong, tell me why... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I strongly agree. Please see the article talk page. --Dweller (talk) 19:49, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Ja, been there, seen that, responded accordingly. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:52, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Let's wait a few days and see what comments come in. Incidentally, what did you think of the graph idea I floated on the talk - you're good at them. Not 100% sure how it would work, though. --Dweller (talk) 19:58, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll have a look at that this week. Seeing the tiny list of Ipswich managers vs most other clubs, it's really an eye-opener to see clubs go through manager after manager. Like QPR for instance...! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:01, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

As I feared...

I know you've done more than your share with this, but the discussion at Talk:Demi Moore has degenerated into the issuing of threats and what seems to be a disregard for the mediation process. It's gotten extremely ugly. Are there any other avenues of mediation or arbitration that you could suggest? The protocol can be complicated to understand, and I don't want to skip steps or put in a request at the wrong page. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:08, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

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Ken Brown

His whole playing career has just two references, two of which are statistic based and his managerial/coaching career doesn't have any. Therefore it "needs additional citations for verification" as the tag suggests. Pretty obvious really. --Jimbo^[online] 14:59, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

There's no need to be patronising. If it was obvious, I wouldn't have asked. What is it you wish to verify? If it's his notability, it's already verified. If there's contentious material unsourced, it should be removed. I didn't understand your revert and I still don't, no matter how obvious it may seem to you. I'd be grateful if you could explain. --Dweller (talk) 15:05, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

B==Soccerbase refs from back in the day== Just to let you know that those Soccerbase refs which you've added no longer point at league tables and just redirect back to the homepage again... We'll need to either work out how to access Soccerbase correctly all over again or use Statto.com to find the tables.... The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Bah. Thanks for the update. --Dweller (talk) 21:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you, thank you

I guess I should have come to you first. The violation of privacy was so bad I'd already contacted an admin via e-mail as suggested at [[Wikipedia:Linking to external harassment] (which says that because Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is “a highly public forum and you could inadvertently bring unwanted attention to the link by reporting your concern publicly on Wikipedia” that “A better option may be to directly email an administrator....”) You've done so much in this bizarre case already, I felt I'd be asking too much to ask you for more help. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This was so creepy, I can't tell you. Thank you again, --Tenebrae (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Dana Gaier article

Hi. I didn't create the Dana Gaier page but I contributed a NYT article. You recently deleted it. I think it should be recreated based upon the following resources which I have found.If there is something specific you are looking for, please let me know. Thanks. http://movies.nytimes.com/2010/07/09/movies/09despicable.html http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2010/DESME.php http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1214097-despicable_me/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323594/ http://news.yahoo.com/film-trailer-despicable-2-3d-101035394.html Dana is an American Child actress best known for her voice role as Edith in Universal Pictures' Despicable Me. She is currently working on the sequel. She also hosts an anti-bullying website called "Got Your Back!" www.GYourB.org. Dmmom10 (talk) 17:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Dmmom10. The standards we apply for notability boil down to someone needing to be the subject of non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources. The NYTimes is reliable, but the coverage barely mentions her name. Neither does the Yahoo piece, nor the one from The Numbers. The trailer doesn't say anything at all. IMDB is not a reliable source (see WP:RS). If she is notable, proper media will have written in depth about her. Just find two such pieces of coverage and let me know. --Dweller (talk) 11:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)