User talk:EditorASC

Welcome!

Hello, EditorASC, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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TheRingess 05:57, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Click here to leave me a new message. I prefer to reply here, if you first comment here. Please don't forget to sign your messages with ~~~~ List of my Photo contributions to Wikipedia Click [[1]], to see the list. And, for the ones that have been transferred to Commons, click here A few examples: Fullerton College Nice pictures from 1963, the good old days. Bband11th (talk) 16:27, 4 November 2009 (UTC) Glad you like them. Were you a student at FJC during that period? EditorASC (talk) 09:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC) I passed by there number of times when I had work in Fullerton in the late 1970s. Bband11th (talk) 00:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)  :Yes, unfortunately there are editors who love to remove pictures because they think they know more about the laws. Some people from the east coast seem to know more about our places and events than we do. I know more about junior colleges in Los Angeles County than the ones in Orange County. BTW I prefer to have the photos on the right side than gallery. Bband11th 02:37, 11 December 2009 (UTC) Yes, I think I prefer the right side too, but for now will leave it in the gallery mode, to see how that might help to advance the article, without the disagreements getting too nit picky. EditorASC (talk) 02:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC) I researched the Wiki Policy on photo placement and found that what we like the best (placed on the right side of the article), is the preferred and default Wiki Policy. So, I moved them back there. EditorASC (talk) 01:50, 15 December 2009 (UTC) ================= Hi, regarding the references - The OR tags were put on as I wasn't able to find the stated information on the link posted. I've since found that the information sites, but just not where directed (and with no functioning link to the history page). (I'd specifically looked for Delbert Brunton on the link [[2]], but instead could only find it through google on [[3]].). I thought I'd let you know rather than changing it as you have multiple citations to each link. Cheers Clovis Sangrail (talk) 02:33, 11 December 2009 (UTC) Thanks for letting me know---much appreciated. No doubt the efficiency and utility of some of the citation links can and should be improved, so that it is easier for the readers to find the sources, with as few mouse clicks as possible. Making that kind of improvements to articles is what us lowly "worker bees" do (when we can spare the time), that helps to make Wikipedia a much better encyclopedia. EditorASC (talk) 02:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC) No worries - the world needs more workerbees working for the greater good (Unfortunately I think I edit and remove more than I add- must change that balance..)- Keep up the good work! Clovis Sangrail (talk) 05:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC) KAL007: Interpreting the ICAO Reports I will be away until end of November. I would like to discuss other than the electrical aspect - aspects that have to do with attempt at continuance of the flight to Japan as over against an attempt at water ditching, and also reports of KAL 007 on the water. Of course these will be from the angle of input from the side of your expertise. Would this type of thing be O.K. on this talk page? I realize that this is not the usual type forum for this kind of discussion. Let me know here, and if it is O.K., "see you" the end of November. Bert Schlossberg (talk) 04:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC) Sure Bert, that will be fine. Anytime you want to discuss it more, just post it here on my Talk Page. I think I will try to figure out how to archive most of the posts on this page, since it is getting so long, and then we can start with a new, fresh page. EditorASC (talk) 07:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC) Previous discussion on KAL007 has been moved to the /Archive 1 page. EditorASC (talk) 10:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC) Bubbles the Pilot Whale Photo When I was 3 years old my parents took me to see Bubbles once a month. We lived in Hermosa Beach for 3 years and I have many fond memories of the trip to Palos Verde and to Marineland of the Pacific. I stumbled across your photo tonight and after over 50 years I still feel the same emotions I felt the first time I saw Bubbles. She was my favorite. Thanks for the photos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.68.231.35 (talk) 02:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC) You are most welcome; so glad you enjoyed those. I have approximately 36 photos of Marineland, all taken in August, 1962. I think that includes 5 or six more of Bubbles, with two taken thru the glass side of the tank, while she was totally under water. Let me know if you would like for me to Email some of those to you. EditorASC (talk) 09:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Retired Captains from UAL Perhaps you knew my father. He flew for united from 1960 till the mid-80s. Brand X, ex-Capital. Flew Viscounts, DC-6 and 7, B-727, 747. ORF, EWR/IDL/LGA, MIA, ORD/MDW. His name was Chester Lincoln. Medical retirement as Captain 727. Died last year. Have a nice one! Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) No, that name doesn't ring a bell. UAL had almost 10,000 pilots during my latter years there. I was hired in 1966 and retired on the 747-400 in July, 1999, according to the FAA age-60 rule. Domiciled at DCA, LAX, SFO, DEN, ORD, and MIA. Type rated on the 727, 757/767, 777, 747-100/200/300 and the 747-400. Also served as FE on the DC-6 (see my photo above) 720, DC-8 and DC-10. Sorry to hear of your father's passing. I did fly with quite a few of the "Brand X" guys and found them to be a very enjoyable bunch, that had a lot of common sense about how to fly in the safest way possible.EditorASC (talk) 00:07, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Bot Script transfer of photos to Commons I notice that a bot script was used to transfer my photos to commons. When I license my photos with 3.0, I always add this required attribution statement, and link, for use of my photos outside of Wikipedia: This attribution link required with use of the photo outside of Wikipedia: EditorASC Sometimes that attribution statement and link does show up after the transfer to Commons, but sometimes it does not. Here is an example of when that required attribution link did transfer with the photo: [[4]] And, another one where the link did not transfer: [[5]] My questions are: Why does the bot sometimes fail to transfer the required attribution statement and link? And, what can be done about fixing this problem? My willingness to provide photos to wikipedia, is based on the good-faith bargain that the required attribution statement and link will always be posted with the photo. In fact, I don't think the license to freely use, is valid, if that statement and link is removed from the photo. Your help in correcting this problem will be greatly appreciated. EditorASC (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC) That very well may have been an oops on my part. :-/ I could see myself getting rid of that text by mistake while getting rid of garbage text that that bot inputs automatically during the transfer. There are two solutions I can think of. First (and easiest for the future) is to always upload to Commons, and not Wikipedia (if you aren't already doing so). To be honest, I don't understand why they allow uploads of freely licensed images at Wikipedia any more because there are users out there that spend their time solely on transferring to Commons. The other is to consider making yourself a template that you can put on your images. This can also automatically add all your images to a category at commons (most likely Category:Images by EditorASC. I have a template at Commons and a category, which is handy. Here's an example of what you could have a template look like: These photos were taken by EditorASC. When using an image, you must include this attribution link nearby: http://www.airlinesafety.com/editorials/AboutTheEditor.htm. If you want to go the route of a template and category, let me know and I'll create them. Then we can both spend some time adding the template to your images. I think I can speak for the community here when I say that we really don't want to lose your great photos. Too few are available between the 30s and the 90s, so they really are priceless (especially the aerials). upstateNYer 23:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC) Thank you for a very prompt and informative reply. Yes, I think I would like to adopt both of your suggested solutions. I think I did try to upload a photo to Commons once, not too long after I was a fairly new Wiki Editor. To the best of my memory, it wouldn't work because Commons did not recognize me. So, I just always uploaded to en.wiki instead. I figured Commons was only for Administrators. I guess that sounds pretty dumb, but the time I have to devote to Wikipedia has been mostly spent on improving/creating aviation articles. Thus, I still have a lot to learn about the techniques related to Wiki software. I have a link to the list of my Wiki photos, on my talk page, if that will help in creating the template and category. My apology for causing so many to have to work to transfer them to commons. I did not know I was creating unnecessary work for others. If you can give me some advice on how to upload to Commons from now on, I will be happy to do it that way. EditorASC (talk) 09:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Trust me, it's not your fault. I blame the higher ups who seem to think the upload page is still needed at Wikipedia, even though it really should be limited to fair use (and a few other uncommon exceptions). I made the template and I started adding it to your images; it's here. The template only works if your image has been moved to (or uploaded at) Commons. Adding the template on images hosted on Wikipedia will not work. So there's some more incentive to move them over. :-) The category where they are all conveniently housed is here. Instructions on adding the template and uploaded to Commons are at your talk page on Commons. upstateNYer 21:09, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks again for all your time spent on helping me out on this. I will see if I can move the rest of the photos to Commons myself. Hopefully, I won't have to impose on your time anymore. EditorASC (talk) 00:52, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Don't worry about it if you still need help; I'm more than happy to be of assistance. upstateNYer 16:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Classification AFAIK users classify articles. An article can be at start class for 5 years if little development happens on it. If someone develops it to a C class or B class, one can recategorize the article himself or herself. One needs to make sure that the criteria for each class is met. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC) Reply from YSSYguy G'day from Oz; my bad - I have never bothered to read the NTSB report on this as I have several books that mention it in some detail. I know it as the Windsor Incident, so went with that. In some ways (traffic, an increase in street violence) Sydney isn't nearly as nice as it was thirty years ago, but now you can get a decent meal at one in the morning if you wish. Cheers! YSSYguy (talk) 07:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC) User subpages Hi- Yes, it's best if you're working on an article to temporarily disable the categories on your user work page. Then, just add in whatever you edited back to the main article page. That way your user page doesn't show up in "Google" searches, etc. A few good templates to use at the top of your user work pages are either: {{User Sandbox}} or {{Userspace draft}}, that way your userpages don't get indexed. Hope this helps! --Funandtrvl (talk) 17:47, 18 February 2010 (UTC) Superdude9191 Superdude did the surviving hijackers thing once too often and got blocked while I was on the way home from work. Thanks for the heads-up. It's good to see you here; we have so few editors with real experience in a given area - there are so many Randy in Boise editors, and aviation articles are plagued with enthusiastic amateurs. Acroterion (talk) 03:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC) Images If they are on commons, fine to delete if they meet the relevant criteria.. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:57, 14 March 2010 (UTC) inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines Hello Robert. Since you edit the website airlinesafety.com, I can understand your opinion that the content of this documentary film may not itself have support in reliable sources. Your being a former pilot yourself allows you a unique perspective. But it must be granted that Tristan Loraine as himself a former pilot is himself allowed a unique viewpoint... even if differing from yours... as what perhaps encourged him to create the film. I am not judging either of you as right or wrong, but am only offering in my argument at the AFD that Wikipedia also does not judge who is right or wrong and that per WP:NF and WP:GNG is only concerned whether or not the film has coverage as a film, and per WP:V Wikipedia ignores drawing any conclusions about its content. Please note that in respecting your concerns, I went through the article to neutralize POV quite a bit, both removing unreliable sources toward the film's content and adding proper citations to Reliable Sources that address its coverage as a film. I am not suggesting you change your opinion, but ask of you in your capacity as editor of a website and a person with an interest in airline safety, if you might provide me links to Reliable Sources that show that Loraine's film is considered controversial so that I might add them to the article in seeking a balance. With best regards, Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC) Thank you for your interest and comments. I will reply as soon as I can work out the time. EditorASC (talk) 10:27, 23 March 2010 (UTC) As to this statement: Your being a former pilot yourself allows you a unique perspective. But it must be granted that Tristan Loraine as himself a former pilot is himself allowed a unique viewpoint... even if differing from yours... as what perhaps encourged him to create the film. I am confident you mean that sincerely. However, I do not see the dispute in that way at all. I don't see it as a conflict between diverse opinions of two different airline pilots, or that each is equivalently entitled to their opinion. You are framing it as if I am saying that I have a First Amendment right to my opinion, but he does not. Not at all. It matters not, what my former occupation was, nor the occupation of one who created a film, for which we now have a wiki spam site (created and promoted by members of that organization), masquerading as if it was a legitimate encyclopedia article. To me, the relevant issue (which all those on the deletion debate page absolutely refused to discuss at all) is that creating articles in Wikipedia, for the sole purpose of advancing the agenda of some group, person or business, is verboten. The "what Wikipedia is Not" policy guide makes that abundantly clear. It is also clear that those who are part of such organizations, have a duty to disclose that from the start (that they are members of the organization and cause that they are promoting), and they should not become wiki editors, just so they can create spam pages for their organizations, that masquerade as legitimate Wikipedia articles. But, no one wanted to discuss that policy issue at all. It was much easier to just attack me personally, and then when I pointed out that personal attacks are never allowed in anywhere in Wikipedia, I got slammed with the "your gaming the system" argument. And that, from an editor that is a member of a group that seeks to save as many articles as possible---an auto-bias against those who request the deletion of any article. The whole deletion process is a sham, IMHO. The militants who specialize in shooting down deletion requests, don't give a damn about the legitimate issues. That is why they canvass for votes on their side and then make personal attacks on those who are legitimately trying to improve the quality of Wiki articles. You don't have to worry: I will not be nominating anymore articles for deletion. I know it would only result in personal attacks from those who apparently have a special dispensation to violate that Wikipedia policy, with impunity. EditorASC (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC) AF447 Hello, I don't know if you're still editing the AF447 article. Several months ago, there was a heated up discussion about the translation of the BEA report - was the plane "flying level", was it "accelerating", etc. I've translated the relevant bits from the original report in french. I didn't check the translated version of the report, but judging from what was written on the talk page, it seems a bit different from what is said in french. Cochonfou (talk) 15:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC) Hey, thanks very much for your contribution. Precisely what I was looking for, when I asked other editors how we go about finding someone who is competent to make the translation for us. I think you pretty much confirmed that our questioning that "acceleration" translation, was a prudent bit of caution on our part. More comments, on the AF447 talk page. EditorASC (talk) 00:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC) United Flight 663 Hello. The *notaforum* tag I added to Talk:United Airlines Flight 663 is a reminder to limit the discussion to the Wikipedia article. It is not an attempt "to prevent legit discussion." Your comment "I was wondering how long it would take for someone to throw in the race/religion card" does not appear to be about the article, but is more of a general comment about the incident. The Washington Post article I cited in my prior comment is evidence that this larger discussion of profiling is taking place. The WaPo citation is evidence of two things: it provides further evidence that this is a notable topic for an article, and gives evidence that the profiling debate should be mentioned in the article. Please note that the issue of profiling originated in the Washington Post and is not a general comment by me. I brought it up because I feel it is relevant to the notability and content of the article. You are welcome to make your case against keeping the article. In fact, I encourage you to nominate it for deletion if you wish. I'd like to add the tag back to keep the discussion focused on the Wikipedia article content and notability. Just wanted to clarify why I added the tag, which is a common tag to add on controversial topics. Thanks. Jokestress (talk) 00:22, 10 April 2010 (UTC) Such a tag is clearly an abuse of the purpose for such a tag. My comment was germane to the issue of including the kind of flash-in-the-pan news, that political activists will frequently try to keep expanding in furtherance of their political agendas. Media such as the Wash Post bringing up the same tired old racial profiling argument, is clear evidence that political agenda "reporting" is taking the place of legitimate news reporting. And, by creating an article in Wikipedia, to further advance that political agenda, violates the WP:NOT policy: "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. ...merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia. Wikipedia articles should not be: "News reports. Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion. For example, routine news reporting on things like announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia. While including information on recent developments is sometimes appropriate, breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information. Timely news subjects not suitable for Wikipedia may be suitable for our sister project Wikinews. See also: Wikipedia:Notability (events)" Please do not abuse that tag again. All the discussion as to why that article should be deleted or not, is legitimate. EditorASC (talk) 00:45, 10 April 2010 (UTC) Please assume good faith. I've seen no evidence that the article's creator or anyone discussing its notability is doing so to further "political agendas." In order to reach consensus, I encourage you to nominate it for deletion vs. commenting here and on the talk page. This incident appears to have sufficient notability to prevail in an AfD discussion. Thanks. Jokestress (talk) 00:59, 10 April 2010 (UTC) Yes, of course you do. Then, then your "Rescue Squadron," will swarm in and overwhelm those who would delete, then you can say that the "consensus" was to keep. The Rescue Squadron amounts to nothing more than a technique for vote canvasing in advance, which you should know is a violation of Wiki Policy. It is hard to assume "good faith" when you are doing all you can to cut off the legitimate discussion on the article's talk page, while trying to divert it to your Rescue Squadron delete forum, where you are assured you will get your way with a pile of pre-canvassed votes. EditorASC (talk) 01:14, 10 April 2010 (UTC) A reliable source can still be cited even if other readers do not have access. Otherwise people could remove all references to books they don't own, etc. I reverted your change. Let me know if you have any questions or need me to cite the sourcing policy. I also hope you will weigh in at the AfD. Jokestress (talk) 06:17, 12 April 2010 (UTC) Hello again. You are mistaken in your argument on the talk page. Per WP:PAYWALL: "The principle of verifiability implies nothing about ease of access to sources: some online sources may require payment, while some print sources may be available only in university libraries." Just because you can't obtain a copy doesn't mean it's not verifiable. Email me if you need further help obtaining a copy. Thanks. Jokestress (talk) 07:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC) Colgan/Frontline Hi EditorASC, I did some more edits and reinserted some text up front, but instead of tit for tat editing, how about we work together on an opening statement that you think can capture the major thesis and content of the episode that's accurate. Even if the show has a point of view (and it does), that doesn't mean we ignore it. And for the record, I'm from a state where unions have wrecked our economy and not afraid to state it. What I liked about the Frontline episode is that they dug deeper into what may be a systemic issue that contributed to the crash. The NTSB has to be conservative (so for instance they say fatigue probably contributed to the crash, but they can assess how much so it wasn't in the Probable Cause statement) whereas Frontline can mention it. What's important for an article is to provide relevant perspectives. We don't have to agree with them to include them. Mattnad (talk) 21:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC) Yes, I would like very much to work out something that works not only for the both of us, but which also conforms to the Wiki guidelines which try to keep out POV, OR, undue weight, etc. Right now I am busy with other matters outside of Wikipedia, so it will probably be a week to 10 days before I will have the time to work on that article any further. For now, if you can be certain that any summarization of comments by any of the parties interviewed in that Frontline Program, is accurate and has enough accompanying information along with the comments, so the average reader can access the likely bias and vested interests of the person making the comments (for example, that the "attorney" who criticized the standard indemnity clause in the feeder contract, was the attorney for plaintiffs in ongoing litigation), then a lot of the potential problems will be headed off at the pass. It is essential that the view of any of those on the Frontline Program is clearly presented as OPINION, and not as if what they are saying is FACT, unless it really is FACT (like the statement that the indemnity clause that is found in all the feeder contracts and which has, in fact, been upheld by the courts). In comparison, comments about outsourcing and "low pay" which imply that either or both were contributing factors to this accident, must be presented as OPINION, not fact. That is precisely why I put in the comment that the ALPA President did not support his seeming allegation, with any valid statistical data. I am sure you can appreciate why that kind of information is essential, if we are not to be accused of trying to use a Wiki article for COI agendas. If one person is to be quoted, that has a certain vested interest in getting his view out there (like the ALPA President), then it must be balanced with the view of someone like the President of the commuter airlines assn, which points out that the average commuter captain is making a fairly good salary. Above all, any comments that seem to conflict with the official findings of the NTSB, will have to be supported with citations from reliable sources other than the one in the Frontline Program who is being quoted. ALPA has long decried "outsourcing," because it is a management alternative to having no choice but to cave into the demands of ALPA---that only their pilots should fly any company flights. Obviously, ALPA opposes outsourcing, because it sometimes reduces the amount of their own membership, as well as reduces the amount of pay and benefits it can get for its members. But, when ALPA and other Lecacy airline unions try to cast that "outsourcing" issue as a SAFETY issue, then they are on very thin ice. I know of no valid statistical studies which show that outsourcing has increased the risk of flying or reduced alleged "margins of safety." Without such non-biased, objective evidence, we at Wiki must be very careful about how much weight we give to opinions that outsourcing was a contributing factor in that accident. In fact, one could make a pretty good argument that it was not a case of oursourcing at all, since the Colgan pilots ARE ALPA pilots. I will get back to that article as soon as I can. EditorASC (talk) 09:45, 14 April 2010 (UTC) If you're going to introduce your counterpoint to the frontline section, please provide a relevant source otherwise it constitutes orginal research and will be removed. Thanks. Mattnad (talk) 12:19, 27 April 2010 (UTC) ???? I have no idea what you mean. You'll have to clarify, if I am to provide an intelligent response. EditorASC (talk) 12:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC) Sure. I've been editing Wikipedia for a while so what's obvious to me may not be to others. You have added your own editorial commentary to the section in addition to what was covered in the Frontline episode. So for instance, citing a statistic that air travel is safer than any other time in history is your comment that a) needs a citation, and b) needs to be connected to the Frontline investigation by a reliable source (see WP:RS). I'll add that it's an irrelevant stat since Frontline was focusing on the regional airlines and not the overall industry. A more telling stat is what portion of fatal accidents were with regional airlines (which you left out even though it's quoted in the Frontline episode). Likewise, your comment that the plaintiff's attorney interpretation was financially motivated is your opinion (as far as I can tell) and needs a source - otherwise it's OR (or really just your opinion). What you are doing, aside from advancing your own POV under the guise of NPOV, is at best WP:SYN. There are other examples in what you have done but I think I've made my point. It's our job to cover what has been said/written. It's not our job to insert our opinions and bring up unrelated facts to counter something we personally don't agree with. Mattnad (talk) 15:04, 27 April 2010 (UTC) Well, since it appears that we are headed for an OK Corral Shootout, I think it best that this be coppied to the Colgan talk page, so that when any Admins are called in, they will have a comprehensive picture of how this dispute began and then developed. I will give you my answer [there] EditorASC (talk) 08:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC) Photos in the Robert H. Schuller article Just noted your message, sorry... Yeah, if nowcommons tag/delete accordingly (CSD-F8 IIRC) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 08:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC) Informing about WP:AN3 report about you I am in the process of creating a report that involves you at the 3RR/Edit War noticeboard. Please come and make a response to the report. SilverserenC 01:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC) You can find it here. SilverserenC 01:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC) Sockpuppetry case Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/EditorASC for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. Socrates2008 (Talk) 12:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC) Renault Dauphine Hope you are paying attention to this. You can also track the Facebook page 'Renault Alaska Trip' 842U (talk) 18:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC) Thanks On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, thanks for the editorial contributions. This user helped promote the article American Airlines Flight 191 to good article status. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:15, 22 August 2011 (UTC)