User talk:Filll/beedrunk

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Bees can suffer serious effects from toxic chemicals and inebriating chemicals in their environment. This includes various manmade chemicals such as pesticides and fertilizers, as well as a variety of naturally-occuring chemicals from plants, including ethanol resulting from the fermentation of organic material.

Bee intoxication can result from exposure to ethanol from fermented nectar, ripe fruits and manmade and natural chemicals in the environment.[1][2] The effects of alcohol on bees is sufficiently similar to the effects of alcohol on humans that honeybees have been used as models of human ethanol intoxication.[3]

However, the metabolism of bees and humans is sufficiently different that bees can safely collect nectars from plants that contain compounds toxic to humans. The resulting honeys produced by bees from these toxic nectars can be poisonous if consumed by humans. Many humans have eaten toxic honey and become quite ill as a result.

Also, natural processes can introduce toxic substances into nontoxic honey produced from nontoxic nectar. Microorganisms in honey can convert some of the sugars in honey to the toxic compound ethanol; this is called fermentation. This process is harnessed to intentionally produce the alcoholic beverage called mead from fermented honey.

Definition of intoxication[edit]

According to the American Heritage Dictionary[4], the word "intoxicate" has several potential meanings:
1. To stupefy or excite by the action of a chemical substance such as alcohol.
2. To stimulate or excite: “a man whom life intoxicates, who has no need of wine” (Anaïs Nin).
3. To poison.

The introduction of certain chemical substances (such as ethanol or pesticides or defensive toxic biochemicals produced by plants ) in a bee's environment can act to cause abnormal or unusual behavior, disorientation, and in sufficient quantities, can poison and even kill the bee.

Ethanol consumption by bees[edit]

Effects of bee intoxication[edit]

The effects of alcohol on bees has been long recognized. For example, John Cumming described this in a publication in 1864.[5]

When bees become intoxicated from ethanol consumption or poisoned with other chemicals, their balance is affected, and they are wobbly when they walk. Charles Abramson's group at Oklahoma State University has put inebriated bees on running wheels, where they exhibit locomotion difficulties.[6][7]

A temulent bee is more likely to stick out its tongue, or proboscis. Inebriated bees spend less time flying. If a bee is sufficiently intoxicated, it will just lay on its back and wiggle its legs. Inebriated bees typically have many more flying accidents as well. Some bees that consume ethanol become too inebriated to find the way back to the hive, and will die as a result.[6]

Bozic et al (2006) found that alcohol consumption by honeybees disrupts foraging and social behaviors, and has some similarities to poisoning with insecticides.[8] Some bees become more aggressive after consuming alcohol.[9]

Bees are subject to prolonged effects from exposure to alcohol, lasting as long as 48 hours.[10] This phenomenon is also observed in fruit flies[11] and is connected to the neurotransmitter octopamine in fruit flies, which is also present in bees.[12]

Bees as models of ethanol inebriation[edit]

Behavior of honeybees intoxicated by ethanol is being studied by scientists at Ohio State University, University of Oklahoma, University of Ljubljana in Slovenia and other sites as a potential model of the effects of alcohol on humans.

Bee inebriation model potential[edit]

  • "The purpose of this experiment was to test the feasibility of creating an animal model of ethanol consumption using social insects...The experiments on consumption, locomotion, and learning suggest that exposure to ethanol influences behavior of honey bees similar to that observed in experiments with analogous vertebrates." (Abramson et all, 2000).
  • "Alcohol affects bees and humans in similar ways – it impairs motor functioning along with learning and memory processing." [13][14]
  • "The honey bee nervous system is similar to that of vertebrates."[15][14]
  • "On the molecular level, the brains of honey bees and humans work the same. Knowing how chronic alcohol use affects genes and proteins in the honey bee brain may help us eventually understand how alcoholism affects memory and behavior in humans, as well as the molecular basis of addiction."[13][14]

Preliminary studies[edit]

The evaluation of a bee model for ethanol inebration of vertebrates has just begun, but appears to be promising. The bees are fed ethanol solutions and their behavior observed.[6] Researchers place the bees in tiny harnesses, and feed them varying concentrations of alcohol introduced into sugar solutions.[14][6] Tests of locomotion, foraging, social interaction and aggressiveness are performed.

The interaction of bees with antabuse (disulfiram) (a common medication administered as a treatment for alcoholism) has been tested as well.[16]

Bee regulation of inebriation[edit]

Some honey bees like to consume fermented nectars containing ethanol more than others, and become notorious chronic inebriates around the hives. Bees station guard bees, or "bee bouncers" outside the hives to keep the inebriated bees from entering the hive and being disruptive. Intoxicated bees are force to stay out of the hive until they sober up.[17] If a bee is a repeat offender and returns in an inebriated state to the hive too often, the "bee bouncers" will chew the offending bee's legs off.[6]

Bees exposure to other toxic and inebriating chemicals[edit]

Manmade chemicals[edit]

Bees can be severely and even fatally affected by pesticides, fertilizers and other chemicals that man has introduced into the environment. They can appear inebriated and dizzy, and even die. This is serious because it has substantial economic consequences for agriculture.

This problem has been the object of growing concern. For example, researchers at the University of Hohenheim are studying how bees can be poisoned by exposure to seed disinfectants.[18] In France, the Ministry of Agriculture commissioned an expert group, the Scientific and Technical Committee for the Multifactorial Study on Bees (CST), to study the intoxicating and sometimes fatal effects of chemicals used in agriculture on bees.[19] Researchers at the Bee Research Institute and the Department of Food Chemistry and Analysis in the Czech Republic have pondered the intoxicating effects of various chemicals used to treat winter rape crops.[20] Romania suffered a severe case of widespread bee intoxication and extensive bee mortality from deltamethrin in 2002.[21] The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) even has published standards for testing chemicals for bee intoxication.[22]

Natural compounds[edit]

Bees and other hymenoptera can also be substantially affected by natural compounds in the environment besides ethanol. For example, Dariusz L. Szlachetko of the Department of Plant Taxonomy and Nature Conservation, Gdańsk University observed wasps in Poland acting very sleepy and potentially inebriated after eating nectar of the north American orchid Neotticae Limodorinae.[23]

Detzel and Wink (2005) published an extensive review of 63 types of plant allelochemicals (alkaloids, terpenes, glycosides, etc.) and their effects on bees when consumed. It was found that 39 chemical compounds repelled bees (primarily alkaloids, coumarins and saponins) and 3 terpene compounds attracted bees. They report that 17 out of 29 allelochemicals are toxic at some levels (especially alkaloids, saponins, cardiac glycosides and cyanogenic glycosides).[24]

Bee inebriation in pollination[edit]

Some plants reportedly rely on using intoxicating chemicals to produce inebriated bees, and use this inebriation as part of their reproductive strategy.

One plant that some claim uses this mechanism is the South American bucket orchid (Coryanthes sp.), an epiphyte. The bucket orchid attracts male euglossine bees with its scent from a variety of aromatic compounds. The bees store these compounds in specialized spongy pouches inside their swollen hind legs, as they appear to use the scent as part of their courtship dances in order to attract females.

However, the flower is constructed in such a way as to make the surface almost impossible to cling to, with smooth, downward-pointing hairs; the bees commonly slip and fall into the fluid in the bucket, and the only navigable route out is a narrow, constricting passage that either glues a "pollinium" (a pollen sack) on their body (if the flower has not yet been visited) or removes any pollinium that is there (if the flower has already been visited). The passageway constricts after a bee has entered, and holds it there for a few minutes, allowing the glue to dry and securing the pollinium. It has been suggested that this process involves "inebriation" of the bees,[25][26][27][28] but this has never been confirmed.

In this way, the bucket orchid passes its pollen from flower to flower. This mechanism is almost but not quite species specific, as it is possible for a few closely-related bees to pollinate any given species of orchid, as long as the bees are similar in size and are attracted by the same compounds.[29]

The Gongora horichiana orchid was suspected by Lanau (1992) of producing pheromones like a female euglossine bee[30] and even somewhat resembles a female euglossine bee shape, using these characteristics to spread its pollen:

"A hapless male bee, blind drunk with the flower's overpowering pheromones, might well mistake a toadstool for a suitable mate, but the flower has made at least a modest attempt at recreating a beelike gestalt."[31].

However, this seems unlikely, given that no one has ever documented that female euglossines produce pheromones; male euglossines produce pheromones using the chemicals they collect from orchids, and these pheromones attract females, rather than the converse, as Cullina (2004) suggests.

Van der Pijl and Dodson (1966) observed that bees of the species eulaema and xylocopa exhibit symptoms of inebriation after consuming nectar from the orchids Sobralia violacea and Sobralia rosea.[32][33]

Toxic Honey[edit]

Some substances which are toxic to humans have no effect on bees. If bees obtain their nectar from certain flowers, the resulting honey can be psychoactive, or even toxic to humans, but innocuous to bee larvae.[34]

There have been famous episodes of inebriation of humans from consuming toxic honey throughout history. Xenophon, Aristotle, Strabo, Pliny the Elder and Columella all document the results of eating "maddening" honey.[35] Honey from these plants poisoned Roman troops in the first century BCE under Pompey the Great when they were attacking the Heptakometes in Turkey. The soldiers were delerious and vomiting and were easily defeated after eating the toxic honey.[36][37]

For example, honey produced from nectar of Rhododendron ponticum and Azalea pontica contain alkaloids that are poisonous to humans but do not harm bees. Honey produced from the nectar of andromeda flowers contains grayanotoxins which can paralyze the limbs, and eventually the diaphragm and result in death.[38] Honey obtained from Kalmia latifolia, the calico bush, mountain laurel or spoon-wood of the northern United States, and allied species such as sheep laurel (Kalmia angustifolia) can produce sickness or even death.[39] The nectar of the "wharangi bush", the Melicope ternata in New Zealand also produces toxic honey, and this has been fatal.[40] The dangers of toxic honey were also well-known among the Pre-Columbian residents of the Yucutan Peninsula, though this was honey produced by stingless bees, not by honey bees, which are not native to the Americas.[41] Bee nectar collection from Datura plants in Mexico and Hungary, belladonna flowers, henbane (Hyoscamus niger) plants from Hungary, Serjania lethalis from Brazil and Gelsemium sempervirens from the American Southwest can all result in toxic honey.[42]

Fermented honey[edit]

Honey that is not produced from the nectar of toxic plants can also ferment to produce ethanol, which is a toxin. For example, B. D. Kettlewellh (1945) describes finding an intoxicated bird, incapable of normal flight, that had been consuming honey that had fermented in the sun in Pretoria, Transvaal, South Africa.[43]

Sometimes honey is fermented intentionally to produce mead, an fermented alcoholic beverage made of honey, water, and yeast (called "meadhing"). Mead is also known as "honey wine".[44]

See also[edit]

Notes[edit]

  1. ^ Of course, other creatures are not immune to the effects of alcohol:
    Many of us have noticed that bees or yellow jackets cannot fly well after having drunk the juice of overripe fruits or berries; bears have been seen to stagger and fall down after eating fermented honey; and birds often crash or fly haphazardly while intoxicated on ethanol that occurs naturally as free-floating microorganisms convert vegetable carbohydrates to <alcohol> (Drug Policy and Human Nature: Psychological Perspectives On The Prevention, Management, and Treatment of Illicit Drug Abuse, Warren K. Bickel, Richard J. DeGrandpre, Springer 1996 ISBN 0306452413)
  2. ^ Fruit flies and other insects also exhibit symptoms of ethanol intoxication ( Molecular Genetic Analysis of Ethanol Intoxication in Drosophila melanogaster, Ulrike Heberlein, Fred W. Wolf, Adrian Rothenfluh and Douglas J. Guarnieri, Integrative and Comparative Biology 2004 44(4):269-274; doi:10.1093/icb/44.4.269 ).
  3. ^ Latest Buzz in Research: Intoxicated Honey bees may clue Scientists into Drunken Human Behavior, The Ohio State Research News, Research Communications, Columbus OH, October 23, 2004.
  4. ^ The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000
  5. ^ Bee-keeping, by 'The Times' bee-master, John Cumming, Published 1864.
  6. ^ a b c d e The Development of an Ethanol Model Using Social Insects I: Behavior Studies of the Honey Bee (Apis mellifera L.): Neurobiological, Psychosocial, and Developmental Correlates of Drinking, Charles I. Abramson, Sherril M. Stone, Richard A. Ortez, Alessandra Luccardi, Kyla L. Vann, Kate D. Hanig, Justin Rice, Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research. 24(8):1153-1166, August 2000.
  7. ^ Abramson et al. (2000) also put honey bees in shuttle-boxes that uses a stimulus to encourage the bees to move, and found that they were less mobile as they became more intoxicated.
  8. ^ Reduced ability of ethanol drinkers for social communication in honeybees (Apis mellifera carnica Poll.), Bozic J., Abramson C.I. et Bedencic M., Alcohol, Elsevier Inc. ; 2006, Vol.38, n°3, 179-183
  9. ^ Development of an ethanol model using social insects: IV. Influence of ethanol on the aggression of africanized honey bees (Apis mellifera L.), ABRAMSON Charles I. ; PLACE Aaron J. ; AQUINO Italo S. ; FERNANDEZ Andrea ; Psychological reports (Psychol. rep.), ISSN 0033-2941, vol. 94 (2), no3, 2004, pp. 1107-1115 PMID: 15362379
  10. ^ Happy Hour Bees , Mythology and Mead, Carolyn Smagalski, BellaOnline, The Voice of Women, 2007 describes a prolonged effect from ethanol consumption by honeybees as similar to a "hangover".
  11. ^ Ulrike Heberlein's group at University of California, San Francisco has used fruit flies as models of human inebriation and even identified genes that seem to be responsible for alcohol tolerance accumulation (believed to be associated with veisalgia, or hangover), and produced genetically engineered strains that are more do not develop alcohol tolerance (Moore, M. S., Dezazzo, J., Luk, A. Y., Tully, T., Singh, C. M., and Heberlein, U. (1998) Ethanol intoxication in Drosophila: Genetic and pharmacological evidence for regulation by the cAMP pathway. Cell 93, 997-1007 PMID: 9635429; Tecott, L. H. and Heberlein, U. (1998) Y do we drink? Cell 95: 733-735 PMID: 9865690; Bar Flies: What our insect relatives can teach us about alcohol tolerance., Ruth Williams, Naked Scientist; ‘Hangover gene’ is key to alcohol tolerance, Gaia Vince, NewScientist.com news service, 22 August 2005)
  12. ^ Octopamine receptors in the honey bee and locust nervous system: pharmacological similarities between homologous receptors of distantly related species, Joern Degen, Michael Gewecke and Thomas Roeder, British Journal of Pharmacology (2000) 130, 587−594; doi: 10.1038/sj.bjp.0703338 PMID: 10821787
  13. ^ a b Entymology Postdoctoral researcher Dr. Julie Mustard, Ohio State University
  14. ^ a b c d Intoxicated Honey Bees May Clue Scientists Into Drunken Human Behavior, Science Daily, October 25, 2004
  15. ^ Entymology Postdoctoral researcher Dr. Geraldine Wright, Ohio State University
  16. ^ Development of an ethanol model using social insects: II. Effect of Antabuse on consumatory responses and learned behavior of the honey bee (Apis mellifera L.)., Abramson CI, Fellows GW, Browne BL, Lawson A, Ortiz RA., Psychol Rep. 2003 Apr;92(2):365-78. PMID: 12785614
  17. ^ Driven to Drink: A Sorry Tale of Bees' Boozy Life, L. Dayton, New Scientist, August 8, 1992, p. 14
  18. ^ Honey bee intoxication caused by seed disinfectants, Dr.sc.agr. Klaus Wallner, University of Hohenheim
  19. ^ Recent Issues Related to Bee Troubles in France, J.N. Tasei, report to International Apis Health Assessment Committee (IAHAC), Bologna, Italy, May 6, 2004. This report included the results of a study of the toxic effects on bees of the seed dressings imidacloprid and fipronil.
  20. ^ Intoxication of honeybees on chemical treated winter rape: problem of its verification, František Kamler, Dalibor Titěra, Jiřina Piškulová, Jana Hajšlová, Kateřina Maštovská, Bulletin of Insectology 56 (1): 125-127, 2003 ISSN 1721-8861
  21. ^ A case of acute intoxication with deltamethrin in bee colonies in Romania, Daniela Nica, Elisabeta Bianu, Gabriela Chioveanu, Apiacta, 39, 71-77, 2004.
  22. ^ Ecological Effects Test Guidelines OPPTS 850.3030: Honey Bee Toxicity of Residues on Foliage, EPA 712–C–96–148 April 1996.
  23. ^ An atlas of orchid pollination: America, Africa, Asia and Australia, Nelis A. Cingel, CRC Press 2001 ISBN 9054104864 p. 44
  24. ^ Attraction, deterrence or intoxication of bees (Apis mellifera) by plant allelochemicals, Andreas Detzel and Michael Wink, Chemoecology, Birkhäuser Basel, Volume 4, Number 1 / March, 1993, ISSN 0937-7409 (Print) 1423-0445 (Online)
  25. ^ Natural pollination of orchids, C.H. Dodson and G.P. Frymire, Mo. Bot. Gard. Bull. 49(9): 133-152. 1961
  26. ^ From page 192 of Interrelationship Between Insects and Plants, Pierre Jolivet, CRC Press, 1998, ISBN 1574440527 , "The first hymenopteran to visit has difficulties coping with the rostrellum but the later ones to arrive easily escape, soaked, drunk, and often having completed their pollinating function."
  27. ^ bumblebee.org article on Hymenoptera
  28. ^ Thieves, Deceivers, and Killers: tales of chemistry in nature, William C. Agosta, Princeton University Press, 2001, ISBN 0691004889
  29. ^ Pollination by Euglossine Bees, Robert L. Dressler, Evolution, Vol. 22, No. 1 (Mar., 1968), pp. 202-210 doi:10.2307/2406664
  30. ^ Evolutionary aspects of perfume collection in male euglossine bees (Hymenoptera) and of nest deception in bee-pollinated flowers, Klaus Lunau, Chemoecology, Volume 3, Number 2, June, 1992 ISSN 0937-7409 (Print) 1423-0445 (Online) speculated that the chemicals produced by the bucket orchid mimic bee pheromones.
  31. ^ From page 180 of Understanding Orchids: an uncomplicated guide to growing the world's most exotic plants, William Cullina, Houghton Mifflin Books, 2004, ISBN 0618263268
  32. ^ An atlas of orchid pollination: America, Africa, Asia and Australia, Nelis A. Cingel, CRC Press, 2001, ISBN 9054104864
  33. ^ Orchid Flowers Their Pollination and Evolution, Leendert Van der Pijl, Calaway H. Dodson, Univ of Miami Press, 1966, ISBN 0870240692
  34. ^ Mad Honey [toxic honey in history] ,Adrienne Mayor, Archaeology 48.6 November-December, 1995.
  35. ^ John the Baptist’s “Wild Honey” and “Honey” in Antiquity, James A. Kelhoffer, Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies 45 (2005) 59–73
  36. ^ Ancient Beekeeping, G. P. Georghiou, The ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture (Root, A.I., editors.) A.I. Root Company. Medina, Ohio, 1980 pp. 17-21
  37. ^ Bees and Warfare: Gleanings in Bee Culture, J. T. Ambrose, pp. 343-346, 1972
  38. ^ Bee Products: Properties, Applications, and Apitherapy, Yaacov Lensky, Springer, 1997, ISBN 0306455021
  39. ^ Consumption of the leaves of Kalmia can be fatal to cattle and grouse. (Nature's Garden: An Aid to Our Knowledge of Our Wild Flowers and Their Insect Visitors, Neltje Blanchan, Garden City Pub. Co, 1900.)
  40. ^ Flora Apcola Tropical, D. Espina-Prez and G.S. Ordetx-Ros, Editorial Tecnolgico de Costa Rica, Cartago, Costa Rica, 1983 p. 35
  41. ^ The Delphic Bee: Bees and Toxic Honeys as Pointers to Psychoactive and Other Medicinal Plants, J. Ott, Economic Botany 52 (1998) 260–266.
  42. ^ Crane, E. 1975. Honey: a Comprehensive Survey, Bee Research Association. William Heinemann Ltd., London; Espina-Prez, D. and G.S. Ordetx-Ros. 1983. Flora Apcola Tropical, Editorial Tecnolgico de Costa Rica, Cartago, Costa Rica.
  43. ^ A Story of Nature's Debauch, B. D. Kettlewellh, The Entomologist, vol. 88, no. 1101, February, 1945, pp. 45-47.
  44. ^ The history of mead may go back more than 8,000 years. A reference in the Vedas, the sacred book of the Hindus, cites honey as a sacred item as far back as the 8th century BCE. Aristotle described honey beverages. The word for "drunk" in classical Greek even is translated as "honey-intoxicated." (Dionysus: Archetypal Image of Indestructible Life, Karl Kerenyi, Princeton University Press, 1976. ISBN 0-691-09863-8)

External links[edit]

  • How to Reduce Bee Poisoning from Pesticides, D.F. Mayer, C.A. Johansen, C.R. Baird, PNW518, A Pacific Northwest Extension Publication, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Copyright 1999 Washington State University. Includes an extensive list of toxic chemicals such as pesticides that affect bees.

Used[edit]

http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/drunken_flies_and_fish/

Moore, M. S., Dezazzo, J., Luk, A. Y., Tully, T., Singh, C. M., and Heberlein, U. (1998) Ethanol intoxication in Drosophila: Genetic and pharmacological evidence for regulation by the cAMP pathway. Cell 93, 997-1007.

Tecott, L. H. and Heberlein, U. (1998) Y do we drink? Cell 95: 733-735. (Minireview)


Control of Bird Migration, P. (Peter) Berthold, Springer, 1996, ISBN 0412363801


Birds have been known to die from accidental ingestion of lethal levels of ethanol Fitzgerald et al (1990)



Ulrike Heberlein's group at UCSF is making mutant fruit flies that have less alcohol tolerance by genetic engineering to use as a model to study hangovers. They use an "inebriometer" to study the amount of intoxication of the fruit flies after consumption of alcohol.

Bar Flies: What our insect relatives can teach us about alcohol tolerance., Ruth Williams


An atlas of orchid pollination: America, Africa, Asia and Australia, Nelis A. Cingel, CRC Press 2001 ISBN 9054104864

Neotticae: Limodorinae Orchid of North America p. 44 of

Szlachetko observed wasps in poland acting sleepy after eating nectar of this orchid

Many of us have noticed that bees or yellow jackets cannot fly well after having drunk the juice of overripe fruits or berries; bears have been seen to stagger and fall down after eating fermented honey; and birds often crash or fly haphazardly while intoxicated on ethanol that occurs naturally as free-floating microorganisms convert vegetable carbohydrates to [alcohol]. p. 283 of

Drug Policy and Human Nature: : Psichological Perspectives On The Prevention, Management, and Treatment of Illicit Drug Abuse, Warren K. Bickel, Richard J. DeGrandpre, Springer 1996 ISBN 0306452413

Notes[edit]

Comments[edit]

You mention in the section about pollination, that the scent drives male bees crazy. Couple of questions. First, aren't male bees rare, meaning their only job in life is to impregnate a queen, and then, essentially, die? I thought all other worker bees were female. And even so, if the scent makes them inebriated, could that be hormonal rather than true chemical inebriation? Orangemarlin 03:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think in some species, male bees are more rare. But I also think there are many species of bees. So I can believe that some species might be different. Some have stingers, some do not. Some can sting just once, some can sting multiple times. Some form hives and live communally. Some live alone. I can also believe that are multiple causes of bee inebriation. I think they are very sensitive to many kinds of chemicals, including ethanol and pesticides and other things, including plant chemicals. I might need to get some more references for that material however. I do find it fascinating.--Filll 04:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fascinating but false. The bucket orchid mechanism does NOT involve inebriation - "bumblebee.org" is not an authoritative source, and you can ignore what they have there. Male orchid bees, by themselves, fall into the bucket because the wall of the bucket is slippery. There are no fights, no inebriation. That is pure nonsense. Also, male bees are not rare. Male HONEY BEES are rare. There are some 20,000 species of bees, only 7 of which are honey bees. Worker honey bees are the only bees that can only sting once, and even then it's only true if they sting a vertebrate. Dyanega 23:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dyanega...relax. Filll is trying to create an article that amuses him. By the way, if you know this much about bees, then I suggest you head on over to the bees, because that's where I think I read about the lack of male bees. That article then needs some rewriting if you're right. Orangemarlin 00:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I'm the main editor of the bee page, and there is nothing on it that says that male bees are rare. I don't know where you read it, but not on any page that I monitor. Dyanega 18:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I misread a phrase in the article. I thought it said that male bees were rare. Orangemarlin 23:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting topic Filll... would have never seen this one coming. I can offer no insight on content, in that I know nothing at all about the topic. However, if you like, I can have my biology students read it. I can then take note of any questions that may arise and pass them on to you. It helps in identification of areas that need additional clarification or perhaps rewording. It worked well for me on the Evolution article, in fact I have made a few minor adjustments to the intro based on their feedback. We are between semesters so it will be two weeks before I can release them on it. If you don't like the idea then let me know. --Random Replicator 23:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One more edit - there is no documented evidence for "fights" at flowers; orchid bee males normally visit one at a time, and they do not become "covered" with a waxy substance. The claim that Gongora produces pheromones that are the same as a female bee is - on the face of it - pretty silly. MALE euglossines produce pheromones, not females. The problem is that too many things are in print that are not scientific; an anecdote or unsubstantiated claim by a person who happens to be a scientist does not automatically confer credibility. Cullina could be a fantastic scientist, but if neither he nor anyone else has ever succesfully isolated a pheromone from a female orchid bee, let alone compared this pheromone to the compounds produced by Gongora, then there is ZERO scientific basis for his cute little story. That there are European orchids that produce pheromone analogs has NOTHING to do with Gongora. If there are studies of the relevant pheromone chemistry, then by all means link them, but otherwise this is not to be believed. This is how urban legends get started, like swallowing spiders in your sleep, how bumblebees violate aerodynamics, how glass flows, and other such stuff. Dyanega 00:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to see a full definition of 'inebriation' in the context of the article. How does one know if a bee has a hangover and when it doesn't. The article is a little too anthropomorphic - bees being 'punished' for instance. Rosser1954

General comments from Pollinator[edit]

Thanks for your request for my comments. However, I am not highly knowledgeable about bee intoxication, but I will note these general observations.

1. While I have occasionally seen bees join yellow jackets and wasps in sucking fermenting juice from rotting fruit, I've never observed any inebriation that resulted. And over the years, I got to be very much "tuned" to the mood of the bee colonies I tended. When you work large numbers of hives and they have to be moved quickly to orchards or blooming field crops, you'd better be able to judge quickly what is the state of the colony, because you don't have a lot of time to fiddle with it. Problem hives are marked and not moved to pollination. 2. I have seen many occasions of honey bees becoming uncoordinated, and have almost invariably been able to trace it to insecticide use on something blooming in the area. This is, of course a violation of the label directions of those that are risky to bees, but it is near impossible to get enforcement. Bees that take a pesticide hit may crawl from the hive. Often they climb blades of grass and try to take off, but fall back to the ground. Generally they puke as well. Even the most hard nosed person who spends a lot of time with the bees will come to have some strong feelings at that time - anger at the thoughtless violator, and sympathy for the suffering bees. 3. Some insecticides will make beehives very HOT to handle. Sevin, when used as a fruit thinner will do this. The bees will be very determined to sting, and smoke avails little. 4. I'm glad the grouping of pesticides and herbicides was changed. It makes no sense, as herbicides are a subgroup of pesticides. 5. I've been in agriculture as a pollination specialist for many years, and have seen just about every imaginable kind of chemical damage to honey bees. But I have never yet been able to trace any damage to fertilizers or herbicides. I understand there are studies that shows that Captain fungicide can do some damage to honeybees if sprayed directly on them, but other than that possibility I know of no other fungicide that is a factor. Herbicides, of course can impact honeybees for good or bad. They can remove weeds which are nectar sources. However, best practices require elimination of clover and other bee-attractive plants from orchard floors, where they can draw in bees which are subsequently killed by insecticide use on the trees. When I have some more time, I'll spend some more time on it. It's an interesting article, but I suspect you may be overrating a relatively rare phenomenon. I don't know. Pollinator 03:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for comments! I want to try to iron out most of the problems before I put this article into main.--Filll 04:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It might be rare, however:

  • Some plants apparently use bee inebriation as part of a pollination strategy (not honeybees, I understand). We have not yet analyzed the chemistry well enough to know for sure though
  • I find it interesting
  • bee inebiration from fermented nectar obviously happens sometimes since bee enforcers have been observed keeping inebriated bees out of the hive and this has been published in peer-reviewed journals
  • toxic honeys have been known about for thousands of years
  • at least 3 university research programs studying intoxication use bees as models
  • bee intoxication/poisoning/fatality due to various agricultural chemicals obviously happens and is a serious economic threat to agriculture
  • whole books have been published about the interaction of bees with the natural chemicals produced by plants.
  • maybe someone else will find it interesting too if I can write it carefully--Filll 04:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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