User talk:Flat Out

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FS-UNEP Centre[edit]

Hi Flat Out, thanks for your suggestions. I will try to find some first hand references for the FS-UNEP Centre. How long can I work on the draft, before it gets deleted? This is my first article... so I can only learn... Best regards! — Preceding unsigned comment added by FSsabrina (talkcontribs) 10:09, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi FSsabrina, don't worry - as long as you are working on the draft you have as long as you like. Let me know if I can help in any way. Flat Out let's discuss it 22:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

00:41:18, 21 March 2015 review of submission by Danny Ropis[edit]

I'm just looking for guidance re the online presence of articles cited. Due to the date the incident occurred I have been unable to source, via Highbeam/other, online versions. If you can point me in the right direction here that would be greatly appreciated.

With regards to the style of the article, for factual accuracy, I have tried to keep details regarding the incident as close to those as presented in the various newspaper articles at the time. I realize that this means that the article appears somewhat journalistic, but the intent here is to present the facts as they were provided to the public. As there was fierce community debate/uproar at the time regarding how the fight between Pea and his killer started leading to an erroneous lingering memory in the minds of many Perth people that Pea was innocently attacked and killed with no prior provocation; which, according to the articles cited, in not the case.

Regards. DannyDanny Ropis (talk) 00:41, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Danny Ropis (talk) 00:41, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Danny Ropis, sources don't have to be online - it just helps reviewers if they are. I suggest you have a look at other articles written about notable criems and see if you can see the difference in styles. The ebst advice is that this is an encyclopedia, not a novel :) - best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 22:17, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

SunStar group info verifiability & notability[edit]

Hello, thank you for your recent review of the SunStar article. I noticed that it was not accepted, because it apparently did not meet verifiability and notability requirements. However, I am still not clear on where the article is lacking. For example, all of the data cited in the article comes from reliable sources, including the company website itself and other data sources. (Note that I am not personally affiliated in any way with the company). Is the problem that there is not a reference for each of the data provided in the article? For example, would there need to be a secondary reference (e.g. the company's website) pointing out that the Consumer Goods Business is actually located in Switzerland? Would this be sufficient to meet "verifiability" requirements? Perhaps if you have a "good" example page you could point me to, that might be helpful.

All of the data provided in the article is written from a completely neutral and non-biased perspective. It is strictly factual, and not written as a "marketing" article.

Also, regarding notability, all of the references cited are from reliable 2nd party sources, not original research. They are web/news articles that are directly related to Sunstar and/or its products. These were representative (not an exhaustive listing) articles that demonstrate notability of the businesses that comprise the Sunstar group. Could you explain why this doesn't meet the notability requirement, and what kinds of references would meet that requirement instead?

Thanks so much, David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidintokyo1 (talkcontribs) 09:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Davidintokyo1 and thanks for your question. You have listed sources but you have not linked them to the body of the article. See Apple Inc. - all content is sourced with inline citations. To be notable, the article eneds to meet the criteria at WP:CORP and in short, multiple sources other than the company need to have written about the company. I hope this helps. Flat Out let's discuss it 22:21, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello again. I did list sources and link them to the body of the article, and I added a few additional sources into the body of the article which are from secondary sources. I believe these should meet the notability requirements. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidintokyo1 (talkcontribs) 14:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

You've got mail![edit]

Hello, Flat Out. Please check your email – you've got mail!
Message added 10:27, 22 March 2015 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

Jianhui67 TC 10:27, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


Was this, by any chance, a mistake? I completely understand if it was, but I'm just curious. Pyrotle {T/C} 00:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, wrong page which is why I reverted it. Sorry about that. Flat Out let's discuss it 01:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
That's okay. Who did you mean to message (just curious)? Pyrotle {T/C} 01:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
The I.P you were reverting, but they will be blocked anyway so not worth worrying about it now. Flat Out let's discuss it 01:03, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
All right, thanks for answering. Pyrotle {T/C} 01:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

footnotes help[edit]

Please check it out, I cite article sources using footnotes. Please make it correct if not — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bihngo (talkcontribs) 17:28, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Bihngo, thanks for your question. Please look at this edit. You will see I moved a reference from those at the bootom and created an inline reference. You need to do this for every statement in the article. Flat Out let's discuss it 22:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Donald Doe article[edit]

Hello there, I saw that you reviewed my wiki on Donald Doe, and declined it. I was not expecting this, since my previous discussion with the other reviewer, One5969, had OKed it to be published if I made a few edits that she/he listed. After making those edits I submitted it. This was the third round of conversations on the piece with him/her, so many edits were made in the past. Could you please inform me of what is required to finish it up under your guidelines? You state that every single statement needs a source, and most of them have such sources, only that they lie within the same website link. I don't know how, plus don't want to clutter the text, with many links to the same source. I figured having the link to the source at the end of the paragraph would be enough, rather than linking every single sentence to the same source. Am I incorrect in this assumption? I would like to get this article up, so any information on that topic would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. -SageheartBK [[1]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by SageheartBK (talkcontribs) 23:08, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi SageheartBK and thanks for your question. I don't know where Onel5969 had suggested they would pass the draft, but I can only make an assessment on what is before me and to take into account the comments left by other reviewers. Your article is a biography of a living person and as such, every single statement must be supported with a reliable source. As an example, the paragraph below makes a number of points - none of which are supported by the reference you supplied at the end of the paragraph.

The paintings are able to mold and alter the symbolic quality of the pirate, questioning some of the ideals and assumptions the iconic image holds. This is than framed in an image that is provocative and drenched in styles of a gendered past. It remains seductive, while employing a sense of freedom and surreal empowerment. In "Bodies Unbound, the Classical and Grotesque", a book published by the Herbert F. Johnson Museum of Art in 2012, an article explores Doe's work along side Martha Rosler. The article states that "The Doe and Rosler images present confrontational and oversized female bottoms that sexualize the female form and engender discomfort in the viewer

Wikipedia articles are supposed to be accurate summaries of what reliable sources have to say about a subject. Your article reads almost like an essay that you have written, with a few inline citations scattered through the article that often don't support what you have written. The paragraph below is another example, as there is no source and the writing is mostly the creator's point of view;

This juxtaposition can be seen in the titles of the paintings themselves. Many of the oil paintings carry titles that link to ancient mythology such as “Echo and Narcissus” and “Leda and the Swan”. This makes the paintings even more problematic, placing them within a historical and mythical narrative while having a modernized image. In 2003 there was a group show that Don Doe took part in, and was reviewed by the New York Times by Ken Johnson. Heterosexual male desire was not the most accepted theme for art during this time. Artists such as John Currin, Lisa Yuskavage, and Donald Doe have brought such themes into the artistic conversation with the problematic way they represent such desire. In this review, Ken Johnson, briefly explores the way Doe’s work interacts with mythology and male desire

I suggest that you read the criteria for artist notability at WP:NARTIST and reduce the article to statements about the subject that can be supported by reliable sources. Please don't hesitate to ask for help, good luck Flat Out let's discuss it 23:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Seth MacFarlane[edit]

I had a discussion open, only one person responded, and the one reverting me didn't bother. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:24, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Joseph Prasad, where? There is a discussion topic on the Article talk page here which suggests you don't have consensus for removing the genre. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:25, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
I know, but it doesn't help that the one who is reverting me didn't bother there. And vocal jazz isn't even a genre if you see the article. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Sure, but editing against consensus will land you in hot water. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:29, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm already in "Hot water" if you see the noticeboard, got reported by the same editor who's reported me at least five times now. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:31, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Have you considered changing your style to be less confrontational? Flat Out let's discuss it 04:32, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
What exactly do you mean? If anything he is the one who is confrontational, last time, I wasn't even violating 3RR or edit warring. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
I took a quick look at your contributions and you could benefit from being more conciliatory. Also, when you've been banned for exceeding 3RR it's an indication to change your style. From what I can make out you've exceeded 3RR at Seth MacFarlane. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:45, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I did exactly 3 reverts, not exceeded. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:48, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I count 4. 03:58, 25 March 2015 (UTC), 02:24, 25 March 2015 (UTC), 02:15, 25 March 2015 (UTC), 02:09, 25 March 2015 (UTC), but the point is, once you've been banned you are supposed to change your style. Good luck at 3RR Flat Out let's discuss it 04:53, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

That's not a revision, as that was there for a while, that's a removal. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 04:56, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
A removal is a revert. Flat Out let's discuss it 05:01, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

created an inline reference[edit]

Thankyou so much ! I did for the Article Please help to approve the Article about youngest social activist Kundan Srivastava. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bihngo (talkcontribs) 05:52, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

HI Bihngo, I have reviewed the article, unfortunately it isn't ready. Please read the comments I left on the article draft. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 06:09, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I found now that again Article of Kundan Srivastava has been declined. He is a youngest author and activist working for humanity cause and women crimes and issues. Please find here official facebook page Bihngo (talk) 06:10, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Facebook is not a reliable source. Please read the comments I left on the draft article. Flat Out let's discuss it 06:11, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


Hello, you have recently declined my submission - draft of the article on ORBIS PICTUS PLAY (the title is usually written in all caps, however, it can also be Orbis Pictus Play if it complies with the Wikipedia policy better) with an invitation to discuss it. Well, I would like to ask if there is any chance you or another editor helps to edit the page (I mean more than declining the draft) so that it is more in an encyclopedic tone, as the reviewers keep suggesting? Thanks! I would be very grateful for any help. I am new to Wikipedia and I can only learn. Aknel3ova (talk) 08:00, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Aknel3ova I have changed the title for you. To fix the issues the article needs a total re-write, If I get time I'll do some work on it. Flat Out let's discuss it 08:31, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I really appreciate your help. Aknel3ova (talk) 10:47, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Unsure what you mean[edit]

Could you be more specific when you say "Having looked at a number of your sources, many don't support the content that they reference", which references are you referring to? Any help would be greatly appreciated. MattBuzza (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

MattBuzza your draft has an essay-like tone. See WP:NOTESSAY. Regarding the sources, you need to be sure that the content in the article is supported by the sources you reference. For example, if I say that "Flat Out uses a Les Paul Tribute guitar with a Marshall stack and Pandora effects" and the source says "Flat Out plays guitar in his spare time" then the detail of the content is not supported by the source. Flat Out let's discuss it 21:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Interesting timing coincidence[edit]

See User talk:L235#LPK, Libby, Perszyk, Kathman article- only a few minutes after that message was added, you accepted their draft. Odd. Thanks for all your work in AfC! (also, I feel slightly better about my own talk page and unanswered messages after seeing yours :P) --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 21:10, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

L235 what a coincidence indeed, a 1 in 476 chance to be reviewing that same article :) - it does take a while to answer the questions but if it means we get good editors as a result I don't mind most of the time. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 21:36, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Copy vio[edit]

Thank you Flat Out, I apologise for the errors and will submit the next revision once completely done, not interim. Zwankie (talk) 08:03, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Zwankie

Regarding New Article "Yasmina"[edit]

Hello Flat Out. Thank you for reviewing and giving feedback on my new article request. Its my first time in trying writing and article and I appreciate your effort bearing with me , especially my references are mainly in Arabic. I have fixed issues you pointed , and I reviewed Criteria for Musicians Notability. Please give me feedback about my article after editing , as I added parts which I think are enough for Notability. -point number 4 in Notability was "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country". I have added references that mentioned Yasmina's participation in many national concerts in Egypt. -point number 6 was " is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles " I have added references that mentioned Yasmina has been a member of 2 known Ensembles in Egypt. -point number 9 was "Has won or placed in a major music competition." Yasmina has participated in Arabs got talent Competition , while this competition is not only for musicians , its probably the biggest "Got Talent" spin off as it includes participants from 22 countries , and Yasmina was the only singer or musician to reach the final , effectively beating all others including Nadia Azzi who already has a wikipedia page. -point number 10 was "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show" I put link to her performances in 2 TV shows (She performed 3 songs in each show)

Thanks for your time Link for edited article draft : — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yasmina Fan (talkcontribs) 13:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Contribution at ANI re TheLongTone[edit]

I'm puzzled. Looked at this discussion yesterday & it ended in this addition by you. Looked at it today & it's gone. I imagine that if you had had second thoughts you would have struck through & added a note, rather than deleting it, so I suspect dirty work at the crossroads. Looked again, found the diff where you'd removed it. And I entirely understand why you want nothing more to do with this sorry business.TheLongTone (talk) 14:05, 27 March 2015 (UTC)