User talk:Fram

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If I have deleted a page you contributed as a copyright violation, but you are also the copyright holder for the original text, you can find more info on how to resolve this at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials#Granting us permission to copy material already online.

Everard t'Serclaes[edit]

Howdy. Could you move Everard 't Serclaes to Everard t'Serclaes? The latter is the correct spelling. Thanks! Oreo Priest talk 09:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. I moved, and restored the history of the t'Serclaes page (which was actually older than the wrong name page). Fram (talk) 09:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Great! Thanks again. Oreo Priest talk 09:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Refactoring comments[edit]

I kinda remember your opinion about refactoring comments,(WP:REFACTOR) I wanted to know if you have warned other user about misinterpreting sources and WP:COPYVIO, and the user refactors that warning/message on their talk. Are they allowed to do that? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 17:22, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Normally not, no. They can remove messages, they can change the header, they can move the position of the message, and they can make purely cosmetical changes (if you have a message with a big "stop" image, they are probably allowed to remove that image. But that's about it. Anything that changes the meaning or tone of a post made by someone else is basically forbidden. I don't know what situation this refers to, so I'm talking in general here. Fram (talk) 07:26, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Deletion of my page[edit]

Hi Fram, I created the page Joseph Thomas M. today and I have received a message from you saying it appears to be in the list of pages to be deleted. 1) If I remove the achievements section since I do not have a certificate for the same, will the page still be under the list of pages to be deleted. 2) Will my work on Sandbox appear to other users? Thank you in advance. Ankitha Shetty (talk) 10:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)Ankitha Shetty

Hi. The only way to avoid deletion of the page is to provide reliable, independent sources discussing Joseph Thomas M. and his own work directtly (not simply mentioning him when discussing some movie, but really giving attention to him). And the intention of a sandbox is to provide space to develop articles for Wikipedia, not to work as a free webhost where you can have an article on someone who isn't notable enough for a real Wikipedia article.
You are invited to join the deletion discussion and give your opinion there. Fram (talk) 10:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Canvassing policy[edit]

On multiple occasions, if somebody continuously tells that you are violating WP:CANVASS when have notified other relevant board or any other user who has edited same pages, then goes on to label their views as {{canvassed}} What has to be done in this situation? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 11:17, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)A) Consider whether they may have a point
B) Take it up with them on their user talk page (politely of course)
C) If A and B fail, and the claims really get disruptive, the raise it at WP:ANI. However, if is e.g. restricted to one AfD discussion or the like, and you get the impression that the claims don't unduly influence other voters, then you can simply state your disagreement with the canvassing claims in the discussion, and leave it at that. Sometimes (mostly) ignoring works better than escalating things, but sometimes thet leave you no choice.
I have not looked at your talk page or any discussions you are currently involved in, so the above is a generic reply. Fram (talk) 11:24, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! I shall notify you, if the problem persists. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 11:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

neutral RfC notification[edit]

Template_talk:Succession_box#RfC has a discussion on succession box usage. You had previously noted or opined at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 April 6#Template:NYRepresentatives thanks. Kraxler (talk) 17:16, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Montgomery County Toll Road Authority[edit]

What do you want me do to? Make up stuff? -- I gave credit for every piece of information that was used on the page and was working on additional information when you deleted the page -- I have to use pre-existing information to say when it was created as the information is only found on their own web pages. (<span=help title="Morph">M o r p h | <span=help title="See what Morph has Contributed to Wikipedia">C | <span=help title="Morph's Discussion Page">T) 20:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I have recreated the page with NO COPYRIGHTED information, thus no HISTORY since you deem that to be copyrighted material (that is the only place that I can think of that had any copyrighted material and in which I had a citation for everything that was used) -- (<span=help title="Morph">M o r p h | <span=help title="See what Morph has Contributed to Wikipedia">C | <span=help title="Morph's Discussion Page">T) 20:55, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

You need to rewrite the information in your own words, not simply copy it (hence the "copy-right"). You can have a history section, and use the source you used previously, but only use it for the information, not for the actual sentences. Write, don't copy. Fram (talk) 07:19, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Anthony Kumpen[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail![edit]

Hello, Fram. Please check your email – you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

Kurtis (talk) 09:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree. Fram (talk) 09:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
I've sent a follow-up. Kurtis (talk) 09:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2014/Candidates/Hahc21[edit]

Hi Fram,

I writing to let you know that I have moved one of your comments to the candidate's talk page. Please note that the question page is reserved for only questions and the talk page is best suited for comments and discussion about the candidates. Best regards, Mike VTalk 10:23, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for letting me know! Fram (talk) 10:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

a little history[edit]

about a recent stub, Stripped Classicism that you tagged. I created that bit of nonsense while doing other stuff because I discovered that the term "stripped classicism" (with or without capitals) was used in several other articles, frequently appearing as a red link. I then went and found a web site that had a pretty good definition of the term and used it as a reference. Imagine my surprise when the reference got knocked off by, I believe, a bot, with the explanation that the site I had used was a "banned by wikipedia" one. I, innocent that I am, did not even know that such things exist. Now off the computer and into my life, I live with my 92 year old mother and she lives in what I call "shamanic time" so when ever she chooses to get up, I get up. (Except between midnight and 7 am, at which point she is on her own). So, after starting the article and getting my one source rejected, I was on to other things. O will try and spend some time on it today and will not remove any other the three tags you added until at least minimally meeting their requirements. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:25, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah, bots, can't live with them, can't live without them... It is no big deal that the article is unsourced for now, do it in your own time and all is well... Fram (talk) 20:00, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Minor diety User:Lockley has beat me to much of this. Carptrash (talk) 22:15, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


Hello my dear hope u r doing good . i just want to know that why Im not allowed to add my profile on wikipedia , and if its allow so what is the right procedure to do so Pls help me in this case thank u — Preceding unsigned comment added by MianAbdulHaseebPTI (talkcontribs) 20:36, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a platform to promote yourself (or your party, company, club, ...) Articles should be about notable subjects, written in a neutral voice and based on reliable, independent sources. User pages can have some personal information about Wikipedia editors, but not as much or as promotional as yours: it should be mostly about your Wikipedia work, your interests, ... And of course, user pages should only be created by Wikipedia editors: if your only work on Wikipedia is your user page, then you are not using Wikipedia correctly, you are not helping Wikipedia but only yourself. Fram (talk) 08:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Fixing a copy and paste move[edit]

Hello. Is there anyway you can restore the history of Moana (disambiguation) by adding the revision history of Moana between 10:59, July 27, 2014‎ and 11:47, June 12, 2008‎ (its creation)? And anyway to delete that same period of history from Moana, so that it looks like an article that has only has revision history between 11:02, July 27, 2014‎ and now. And the same for the talk pages too. Thanks. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Done! (Admins have a nice tool to help us do this, otherwise it is a lot of work...) Please check if it is done correctly though. Fram (talk) 07:56, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Seems to be. Thank you and apologies for creating work for you.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
No problem, it's no big deal. I'm glad that I can do something that satisfies you both though :-) Fram (talk) 09:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Good work[edit]

That was good work finding and documenting misuse of the administrator WP:UAL. NE Ent 19:19, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
Without your intervention this sham would have gone unnoticed and our community would be worse off. Thanks for defending our integrity. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:10, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced Tag[edit]

I have added several references to the If I Was a River (album) page. When and who can remove the WP:Unsouced tag? Thanks for all of your work on Wikipedia BuffaloBob (talk) 01:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

As soon as an article has a reference (preferably a reliable, independent one), you are free to remove the tag. Looking at that article, it has seven sources and two external links, and they seem to be good sources, so there is absolutely no reason to keep that tag on the article. Thanks! Fram (talk) 07:40, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 9[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Master of the Baroncelli Portraits, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Capilla Real. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:01, 9 December 2014 (UTC)


Can you move Kekauōnohi to Kekauʻōnohi? Thanks.

There were some problems with such a move a while ago, and I then have said that I'ld prefer a WP:RM, as I am unable to judge if this is a correct move or not. Fram (talk) 08:01, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia genealogy project[edit]

Just wondering if you have any thoughts re: the idea of WMF hosting a genealogy project. If so, feel free to contribute to this discussion. And apologies if I have made this request before. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Archaeology of Igbo-Ukwu[edit]

Hello Fram. I understand and appreciate your pointing out the close paraphrasing in Archaeology of Igbo-Ukwu. However, I need to point out that this is actually limited in scope and does not warrant a complete deletion of all my additions to the subject over months since not all the content I added was affected by this, and most of the added content was actually an improvement to the encyclopedic content and not affected by close paraphrasing. For you to take the stance that it is indeed a pity if a lot of work has crept into it, but it's better safe than sorry. We are now aware of these four, but chances are that there are more of them, and that not all of them would be corrected as you did here is unfortunate and unfair. It is either there are more of them or there are not, and as I had pointed out in that discussion, of the four instances you mentioned I am not responsible for the third one while the fourth is the description of an image which might fall under WP:Limited. In any case I understand your concerns. Still the issues and extent involved are not so grievous that all my contributions (and those of others which you refer to as collateral damage!) to the article over months must be deleted. According to WP:DCV If you have strong reason to suspect a violation of copyright policy and some, but not all, of the content of a page appears to be a copyright infringement, then the infringing content should be removed, and a note to that effect should be made on the discussion page. And WP:PARAPHRASE says Your approach may vary depending upon the severity of the concern... It is important to discuss your concerns with the contributor. Many people who paraphrase too closely are not intentionally infringing, but just don't know how to properly paraphrase. It might help to point them to this essay or to the references and resources listed here, which include some pointers for proper paraphrasing. My concern is that the content of the encyclopedia would be significantly reduced by simply reverting the article to a version from 2012 (the easy way out) instead of rewriting or copy editing the offending passages which would have been the better solution. The extent of the problem did not require blanking, the close paraphrasing template would have sufficed in this case and rewriting could have been done on the spot by you or you might have notified me to do it. All I am asking now is that you take time to copy edit the article as it was and address the few close paraphrasing issues that you have identified, or if you cannot find the time, give me a chance to do so myself. Imo your revert to 2012 is very harsh and somewhat inappropriate under the circumstances. It is also not in the interest of the encyclopedic content. As I have requested from you at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#GA with copyvios in Queue please at least take out enough time to correctly identify a version of the article prior to the addition of my close paraphrasing which would adequately do justice to other contributors to the article. Thank you for your time. Ochiwar (talk) 19:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your lengthy reply, but no. If there is one instance of copyvio / close paraphrasing, then rewriting or removing that part may be sufficient. Having found multiple instances, chances are that there are more undetected ones as well, and therefor I will not undelete the page. It took already quite a long time to find these violations, as these checks are not easy. Having noticed that indeed one of the copyvios predated your edits, and that the very first version of the page was already a copyright violation, I have now completely deleted the page. You can now start from a clean slate, without having to worry about your or older copyvios or close paraphrasings. Please be aware that the image description, which you believe is not a problem under WP:LIMITED, in reality still is a violation and needs to be rewritten as well (or given as a straight quote, but please don't overquote). Things like "a network of parallel lines, crosshatchings, and granulations typical of Igbo Ukwu", which you copied straight from the source, are things which can easily be rewritten. Fram (talk) 07:34, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Great, thanks. I knew I could count on you. A clean slate is so much easier. Ochiwar (talk) 09:09, 12 December 2014 (UTC)


I saw your reference to your having pinged me in a discussion about Oversight and the Australian shooting. For some reason, I did not receive any ping. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I pinged you, but afterwards I rev-deleted the whole section (as oversight took way too long to happen); perhaps this undid or thwarted the ping in some way. Fram (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Luc De Vos[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Man Haron Monis[edit]

Man Haron Monis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

As you seemed to be concerned about the WP:OUTING yesterday associated with Talk:2014 Sydney hostage crisis (I noticed your extensive revdel), you may want to take a look at this. Dwpaul Talk 02:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Seconded. There is at least one topic about trying to play the guessing game. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I rev-deleted this as well (not only that section but an older one as well!). I created an edit notice to warn people about this, let's hope it helps. Fram (talk) 07:46, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Not a problem and thank you for responding quickly. I was trying to work out how to use the IRC and did not notice any changes until I could not see the issue anymore. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for posting the talk page notice. However, I think it would be better if you were to put, "if any" as a qualifier. StAnselm (talk) 04:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Good idea, done. Fram (talk) 07:32, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Actually, I meant "which Wikipedia account, if any", but that's OK. StAnselm (talk) 08:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion at Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy)[edit]

Fram, could you please drop by Talk:Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) and speak some sense? Many thanks. Shem (talk) 09:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration clarification[edit]


  • Hi Fram. The above relates to Richard Norton. I hope you'll agree that it's a good idea to give him another chance. Best regards, —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 03:13, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


You should know that edits like this make it awful hard to expose the admin evils that we all have likely seen mentioned. And what am I to do if ever I need diffs to tear your good name asunder? Show something like that? You have a lot of integrity considering your caste. Cheers.--John Cline (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:EngFram/sandbox[edit]

User:EngFram/sandbox, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:EngFram/sandbox and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:EngFram/sandbox during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 18:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Criticism of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad[edit]

Sir, I created this article and was tagged for speedy deletion because there was another article of the same name which was deleted because of lacking sources or other issues before I joined wikipedia but my article has reliable sources. Can you check the matter. Owais Khursheed (Talk to me) 10:36, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi. Would you consider moving Béguinage to Beguinage (no accent?). The latter is the English name, and another editor requested it on the talk page, and I'm inclined to agree. Of course, if you think that this is controversial enough to warrant a proper discussion, we can do that too, but I suspect nobody will object. Your call, really. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 17:30, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of Article[edit]

I wish to know why the article Victor Mochere ( ) was deleted. Please tell me if it can be reinstated? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KingMende (talkcontribs) 15:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi Fram, should Ziferblat be deleted or not? Crookesmoor (talk) 13:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Where are you?[edit]

Someone remarked on the DYK discussion page recently that the standard of hooks must have improved because few had been pulled recently. I don't think this is the case. There are still problematic hooks but they are getting through undetected because the main DYK critic, you, is taking a wikibreak. I hope this is only temporary and that you will soon be back keeping your eagle eye on things and picking out the errors and inaccuracies that others miss. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:36, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

About your (non)participation in the January 2012 SOPA vote[edit]

Hi Fram. I am Piotr Konieczny (User:Piotrus), you may know me as an active content creator (see my userpage), but I am also a professional researcher of Wikipedia. Recently I published a paper (downloadable here) on reasons editors participated in Wikipedia's biggest vote to date (January 2012 WP:SOPA). I am now developing a supplementary paper, which analyzes why many editors did not take part in that vote. Which is where you come in :) You are a highly active Wikipedian (96th), and you were active back during the January 2012 discussion/voting for the SOPA, yet you did not chose to participate in said vote. I'd appreciate it if you could tell me why was that so? For your convenience, I prepared a short survey at meta, which should not take more than a minute of your time. I would dearly appreciate you taking this minute; not only as a Wikipedia researcher but as a fellow content creator and concerned member of the community (I believe your answers may help us eventually improve our policies and thus, the project's governance). PS. If you chose to reply here (on your userpage), please WP:ECHO me. Thank you! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


Pichi no Shiro de Rokkuman to Pati is NOT a hoax, it is real. (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Ping[edit] --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 16:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


Hi Fram,

I hope you're okay. I haven't seen you edit for over two months now. Please let me know if you're doing okay. Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Missing Wikipedians[edit]

Just a note that you have been added to this list. If you return to editing or you do not want to be on this list, feel free to remove your name. Liz Read! Talk! 09:49, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
So many times whenever I had any difficulty or any doubts, I used to think what you would've done if you were in my place. After thinking that way, I always found that I had a new idea. The way you used to evaluate the merit and validity of claims, was in itself amazing. You are not anymore with us for a long time now, but you will continue to serve as a source of inspiration. Thanks again for your contributions. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 00:19, 17 April 2015 (UTC)