User talk:Gamaliel/Archive 6

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Hello, welcome to my talk page. Please try to keep it relatively organized by posting new topics on the bottom of the page, making relevant headings about your topic and using subheadings, not new headings, for replies. I will almost always reply on this page to messages. I reserve the right to make minor changes of formatting (headings, bolding, etc.) but not content in order to preserve the readablilty of this page. I also reserve the right to delete rude and/or insulting comments, trolling, comments from anonymous IPs, and comments from people with a history of insults and incivility. Also, I'm much more informal than this disclaimer implies. Thank you. Rock on.



It says clearly "The following schools are under watch for continuous organic growth and improvement". It's up to Grider what kind of article to accept there, and frankly Vfding an article and then listing it there with the tag "Must be saved!" is blantant trollery which you should not be supporting. Kappa 19:12, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

If you looked at what you were reverting, you will notice that I removed the "must be saved" comment added by another user and made sure the entry was in the style of others in the same list. The proponents of this schoolwatch project crow about its openness and then when something happens they don't like, you close ranks. So much for openness. Gamaliel 19:49, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • It's still a bad-faith addition, I don't see why we should be open to that. The other schoolwatch handles all school-related articles, listing on Grider's is just WP:POINT making. Kappa 20:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Why is it bad faith? Is it not a school-related article? If you're just telling everyone you don't like to use the other schoolwatch, then is this not just a redundant, exclusionary project? Gamaliel 20:01, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • It's bad faith because it wasn't listed with any intention of trying to keep or improve the article. It continues to be bad faith because it implies the GRider's schoolwatch would like that article to be kept or improved and it is encouraging people to go and improve it and vote "keep" on it - basically a mean trick. Kappa 20:14, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
I fail to see how this is "a mean trick". It's a school-related article on vfd in a list of school-related articles on vfd. You people keep saying that anyone can use these lists regardless of where they side in the school debate; apparently that was just not true. Gamaliel 20:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Your lie is still there on the page, be satisfied with that. Kappa 20:22, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
No need to get snippy. Gamaliel 20:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • You're making bad-faith, misleading, WP:POINT making additions to another user's page when he isn't in a position to defend himself. The only purpose of listing that article there was to cause trouble, and OK it succeed. Snippiness is a natural reaction. Kappa 20:40, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
If you can't abide by the policies Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:Assume good faith, please do not post on my talk page. Gamaliel 20:43, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • OK since you won't withdraw that misleading listing I've tried to clarify its status. Kappa 21:03, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Rob Liefeld (again . . . .)[edit]

The anonymous anti-Liefeld user who was vandalizing the talk page has started inserting POV comments into the article and otherwise messing up sections of the article against the consensus discussions (which he mostly heckled rather than contributing to). (I assume it's the same guy; he won't log in or sign his posts, but the style doesn't change.) His comments make clear he either doesn't care about NPOV, to whatever little extent he understands it. Following the discussions while the page was protected, I've tried to tone down the POV overtones (mostly removing implications that I actually agree with). Any suggestions, before this goes to hell again? N. Caligon 20:02, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd prefer this not escalate again, especially since that might attract back the other two, more troublesome anon editors. In the short term, his minor POV edits won't cause much of a problem, so I suggest we just keep working on him to adhere to wiki norms. He's signing his posts now, so I think there is hope. I understand he can be frustrating, but I hope s/he won't spur you on to more attacks or breaking the 3RR or anything else. I'm willing to block the anon immediately if s/he breaks the big rules, but I can't really do that if you're breaking them too. If it gets to the point where I have to start blocking everybody I'll just lock the page again and then we're back where we started. Gamaliel 21:10, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you removed some of my comments on the Liefeld talk page as a "personal attack," unless you didn't recognize that "Rebecca Howe" was the Kirstie Alley character on "Cheers," and that there was a specific, humorous reference being made. (Or at least an attempt at humor). I do think the deleted comment about trolling was entirely appropriate; to deny that someone is prominent, and cite dozens of recent posts about him to support the claim, strikes me as so conspicuously illogical as to need no further justification.
And (seriously) what rules are you suggesting I'm breaking, or on the verge of breaking? N. Caligon 23:27, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Calling someone "too stupid to live" isn't funny, it is an obvious personal attack, even if you are using the words of a sitcom character. Just because you think this person is a troll doesn't give you license to say whatever you want to him. On the whole, you are in the right in this matter, but regardless of that there are some lines you just don't cross, and I'd prefer that you not cross this one again, whether your intentions were humorous or not. Gamaliel 00:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
OK, OK, but I thought describing an obviously over-the-top phrase as "the immortal words of Rebecca Howe" should have been enough of a tipoff that I was being tongue-in-cheek (or trying to be). I won't use that joke again here; but I've used it before and it's never been received this way before. And I thought it was recognizable enough as a catchphrase;
And in comparison to comments like "Rather than making baseless claims and trying your hardest to justify the underhandedness of Rob Liefelds shady interaction within the industry. Maybe you should study business law" which are clearly intended as "serious" personal attacks . . . N. Caligon 00:34, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I guess two wrongs make a right, then. Have fun arguing with him, I'm going to take this article off my watchlist as it has caused me nothing but weeks of unwanted stress. Gamaliel 01:10, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm not saying two wrongs make a right. I'm saying there's a difference between a joke that falls flat and a conscious personal attack. N. Caligon 03:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

POV on the Axis of Evil article?[edit]

Thanks for the heads up. Copperchair 22:36, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I'll do it, then. Copperchair 23:36, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Comic strip[edit]

Hi, I wonder if you would know where I can find a specific comic. I can't remember where I found it and I lost it now. There's this superhero or something who thinks "with a little grease I can fit an entire pig in this drawer" while his girlfriend thinks "..he is so FOCUSED". Something like that. I'm asking because if it's copyright-free we could have an article or something about it I want to place it on my user page, it's almost as funny as the one you have. I also wonder if you could find an Ellen Feiss picture and place it on that article (I found your user page through history of that page). Because I'm not sure I can find a copyright-free one, seems you know these matters. Pretty weird requests, eh? :) Thanks in advance. Tkalayci 01:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I have no idea where to find an Ellen Feiss pic. Have you tried the Apple website? Also, that particular comic doesn't seem familiar to me. Perhaps you could try googling variations on that phrase as it seems pretty distinctive. Gamaliel 19:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
OK thanks, I found the comic, turns out it's Captain RibMan. Do you think it will be deleted? Tkalayci 23:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
People here tend to frown on articles about webcomics with a really low readership, but other than that you should be fine. Your article should specify a few more things, like who creates Captain RibMan and where you can find it - newspapers or online? Gamaliel 23:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
It's not my article. I don't really know anything about it, except this particular one. I will try to research and expand the article. Thanks. Tkalayci 23:32, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I just assumed it was yours. Gamaliel 23:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


Image deletion warning Image:Aftermathrollingstones.jpeg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

It's unused, and there's a used, higher-quality version at Image:Aftermath.rollingstones.usalbum.cover.jpg --Mairi 06:43, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Gamaliel 06:45, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for spam... I notice you added a test note...[edit]

I am currently in discussions with Ozemail regarding persistent vandalism that has been occuring from the following IP addresses in their network:

I need assistance with all the specific items of vandalism. I have setup a page to gather this evidence at User:Ta bu shi da yu/Ozemail.

I need your help! Please use the format:

We'll see just how good their service is at responding to this sort of thing - we should be supporting any company that assists us. Therefore, I'm hoping that the Wikipedia spirit of cooperation and immense amount of volunteers will help with tracking down vandal edits.

If Ozemail gives a good response, we can use them as an example of a good ISP, and maybe even shame AOL into assisting us (we get lots of vandalism from them).

Ta bu shi da yu 01:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC) (our friend from Stormfront)[edit]

I am not vandalizing, I am adding content to Wikipedia. You should not allow moderators to abuse their powers. Moderators are violating the very concept of the Wiki Project, that being "open-source." Wikipedia is no longer open-source because moderators have taken it upon themselves to control articles as they see fit. Articles are no longer a collaboration of minds, they are the work of single moderators who refuse to accept facts. Dozens of people are turning away from Wikipedia every day because moderators are reverting any work they contribute. Moderators are supressing education and free-thinking by refusing to allow any new additions that do not comply with their own opinions. Specifically, moderators of Nazi-related articles are the worst, banning anyone who tries to add content. Ironically, they are acting like the very people they claim to despise. As such, I have lost complete faith in the Wiki Project, and I will never again use Wikipedia. Nor will I recommend it to anyone else, as I had done on a daily basis in the past.

Is that a promise? --Nandesuka 02:16, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


Thank you for your fast response to the ridiculous vandalism on Beyond Good and Evil and its related entries. --Nandesuka 21:09, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

No problem. It's actually kind of fun playing whack a mole with these sockpuppets. ;) Gamaliel 21:10, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

UF Establishment[edit]

Do you think some kind of dispute resolution is needed? Kushboy 22:34, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Not particularly, but I will of course participate in any resolution process. Perhaps just an WP:RfC listing for now? Gamaliel 22:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I was thinking that. I'll list it. Kushboy 22:50, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Stolen Honor again...[edit]

Hi, Gamaliel -- TDC is over at Stolen Honor, removing what he calls "irrelevant" information about Sherwood (i.e. Frontline showing that what he called an "independent investigation" wasn't.) I'm already at my limit of reverts. You might want to stop by and take a look at what TDC thinks is less "POV". -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:08, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I was hoping to never have to deal with TDC again, but I guess that was an idle fantasy... I'll stop by. Gamaliel 06:53, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

The Killers[edit]

what's wrong with this version? Many, many things. Please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). -- jiyTalk 00:46, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

I dispute that your current edit/reversion of the page is consistent with disambiguation guidelines.
  • First, the point of a disambiguation page is to direct users to the specific page they want, quickly and painlessly. The quickly and painlessly part is even more imperitive for a page like this, because when someone types in The Killers they are taken directly to a disambiguation page; there is no primary topic. For this reason, entries on a disambiguation page should be listed in order of usage, not neccesarily in chronological order. The Killers (band) are fairly popular, significantly more recognized than a minor work by Ernest Hemingway and its derivations. A quick Google search roughly supports this: "the killers" hemingway yields 20,000 results whereas "the killers" band yields over 600,000 results. It is reasonable to assume that most people who type "The Killers" into the search box are looking for the band—therefore, The Killers (band) should be the first entry.
  • Second, I reiterate that a disambiguation page is only used to direct users to an article, not to be informative. Yes, we should give enough information so a user knows the correct link to select. However, it is assumed they know which article they want to read, and only require a bare amount of information to judge which link to click. People don't just arrive at disambiguation pages on whims (at least they aren't supposed to—a dab page should almost never be linked to). They had to type "the killers" into the search box, intending to find a specific Killers. For this reason, entries should be brief so someone can select their article as speedily as possible, they shouldn't have to wade through a clutter of information. For instance, with The Killers (band), the (band) part in the link should be enough information for the user to know that the article the link takes them to will be about the band; trivial information such as their date, place of origin, and subjective information like their musical genre are needless. The link by itself is sufficiently descriptive.
  • Third, in most cases there should be no wikilinks on the line except for the main article link. Linking to actors from the films is non-essential to helping the user finding the article they are looking for. In this case, the actors should probably not be listed at all, instead replaced by the director of the work (especially since one of them is the revered Orson Welles) My mistake, I confused it with The Stranger (1946 film). Linking to the year 1927 is also trivial and non-relevent to helping the user finding their specific article.
  • Forth, I see you have replaced the direct link of The Killers (short story) with a link to a redirect page The Killers (Hemingway). I am not sure why you think this is better. The Killers (short story), by Ernest Hemingway avoids redundancies and is consistent with article naming guidelines.

I have changed the article to reflect the above reasons, please discuss before changing it back. —jiy (talk) 12:57, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

We can agree on the last point, a direct link is better. I simply was not paying attention in that particular case that there were two different links.

I agree that entires should be brief, and I feel that the entries in my version were sufficently brief while still providing useful information. This isn't vanity or infocruft or whatever, I feel that a disambig page should be more helpful than a blank list of links. For example, I feel very strongly that the actors should remain listed because many people search for movies only knowing the names of the actors involved and not the director or anything else. A useful disambig page should prevent pointless clicking and searching.

Wikilinks should be limited, yes, but the MoS also provides several examples of disambig pages with links. But we can agree to dispense with the 1927 link.

I also don't agree that the band should go first. This is an encyclopedia, not a popularity contest, and while I like the band and enjoy their album, I think that the story, one of Hemmingway's most famous and important, has a clearly established encyclopedic importance whereas the band has not at this point in their career. Gamaliel 21:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

You be a liar[edit]

I know I left a obscene comment on your talk page. You deserved it, for all of the POV pushing you do. Ruy's comment wasn't nasty, and you know it. You abuse your powers I hope you feel like a bigger person now. You push your POV, you harass other users who do not agree with it, and you regularly insult others so you can push your partisan hippy crap. Good day. 13:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

If you can substantiate any of that nonsense, feel free to start another RfC. Until then, find another playground. Gamaliel 16:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

It can be substantiated. I really don't care to file an RFC. I can't wait for this latest one your buddy is talking about though. In fact, once the RFC is posted, make sure everyone in the article knows, so we can all comment. Who's the sockpuppets this time? You? 16:39, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, you have the evidence, but you can't really be bothered. In other words, you're just talking out your ass again. Don't post here again unless you have something constructive to say. Gamaliel 16:43, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

RFC for User:Ray Lopez[edit]

On Monday I will be filing an RFC on this user for lying on edit summaries and personal attacks. Stirling Newberry 15:28, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

What about a username block? It seems a bit too close to User:Ruy Lopez. Attempted impersonation? Gamaliel 15:46, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
No one would mistake the two. Stirling Newberry 05:42, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

John O'Hara Pictures[edit]

No need on telling me about the deletion of three of them. I only added two! Thanks Scotty

According to the image pages, you uploaded all three images. Gamaliel 19:31, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I did? Ok then, I guess I did, my error..No big deal...

Manhattan Project[edit]

Anyway I'd be more concerned about crap like this I found this morning See history (cur) (last) 2005-08-15 23:48:17 Scottfisher (restored damage from I know I didn't do this one...Am I right?

I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Is someone alleging you committed the vandalism? Gamaliel 20:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
No one is making that accusation, I'd be more worried about vandalism, than a picture of O'Hara. Have you heard of any law suits on Copyrights here? Thanks for your time Scotty
Have there been any lawsuits about vandalism? A copyright lawsuit is always a possibility, and one that we would most likely be on the losing side of. Regardless of this I spend a great deal of time dealing with vandalism on this site so I can hardly be accused of turning a blind eye to that sort of thing. And the existence of vandalism on Wikipedia does not free you of your responsibility to properly identify the source and correct copyright status of images you upload. Gamaliel 21:18, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel; Can you confirn this one as a copyright? Image:North american operatingplants.gif at Electric power transmission

Sorry so big... Thanks for your time Caio~ Scotty

If you place a colon in front of the I in image, then it will just show a link to the image instead of the image itself, as I've done with the image you posted above.

It appears that the image is in fact copyrighted, but apparently the copyright holder allows this image to be used for certain purposes. For more information, you can ask the person who uploaded the image, User:Iain.mcclatchie. If you believe we are not in fact allowed to use this image, you can list it yourself at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images. Gamaliel 03:10, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Secret Agent Corrigan/X-9[edit]

Dear Gamaliel, greetings from India. I tried to find your e-mail but couldn't... I wanted to inform you that I just added some info. and images to Secret Agent X-9. I don't know much about this user talk function, how can we send Mails to each other? --Cyril Thomas 15:23, 29 August 2005 (UTC)


You may not be aware, there has been discussion over the past two weeks to de-politicize disputes on the main article Venona project. The new spinoff, Significance of Venona, has survived VfD and a group of editors are wishing to carry the historical & political interpretations over to that article. The Venona project page is rightfully of interest to the pure cryptograpers, who have no interest in extended disputes regarding historical and political interpretations of material. A concensus was achieved prior to Mr. Cberlet returning from hiatus, so the dispute tag was left up at least til he got back. As of today, he is actively involved again, and we are allowing him a few days to catch up on what has all transpired in his absence. In otherwords, there is not supposed to be an edit war on the Venona project, as that is moreless declared neutral ground. Your comments are welcome. Thank you. nobs 02:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

What did I do?[edit]

I've just got a message from Gamaliel, telling me that I have vandalised Wikipedia, and I will be banned pernamently if I do it again! There has been some kind of mistake! I think the problem is that I (and the vandaliser) are both going through Internode, my ISP. Please, I read the wiki all the time, but have never changed anything before! Please, fix this mistake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

That was an old message from May. A previous user of your IP address had vandalized Wikipedia and it was directed at him or her. To avoid this sort of confusion in the future you can sign up for a Wikipedia account. Gamaliel 14:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


WikiThanks.png Thanks for blocking User:Xizer for vandalism on my page. Vandalism makes me feel more like part of the WikiCommunity at times. D. J. Bracey (talk) California state flag.png 14:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC) [1][edit]

You wrote, "I've protected this page since it contains evidence in an ongoing Arbcom dispute. Gamaliel 18:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)"

Nothing but argument _ad hominem_ personal attack/poisoning the well was ever deleted from the page. How does such nonsense qualify as 'evidence'? You delete nonsense from your user page, don't you?-- 19:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The thing is, it's not your userpage, it's the user page of an IP address. If you want your own userpage to do with what you will, sign up for an account.
If you wish to dispute this block, please bring it up at the relevant section at WP:AN/3RR. Gamaliel 19:02, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Comments to BATMAN-DA-NA-DA-NA[edit]

Why single out and threaten BATMAN-DA-NA-DA-NA for the same action as the anon user on WSI and VVAW? TDC 19:10, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any 3RR violations from the same IP address but if you point any out to me I will be glad to block them. Gamaliel 19:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
You cant block the anon, it would take a range block as it is an earthlink proxy, and all anon contributions are from the same individual. TDC 19:23, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
I'm reluctant to block a range, especially from a big provider like Earthlink, without any proof. Not to mention I simply don't know how to do it yet. Gamaliel 19:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I am not asking you to do a rangeblock, that was tried with this user months ago, and dropped because it also blocked dozens of registered users. TDC 19:31, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
Allow me to chime in, please, as one of the "Anon" editors of the article in question that has never been blocked. (Although I fail to see how 165.xx.xx.xx is any more anonamous than Gamaliel or TDC - less so, since my IP shows and yours does not.) After a cursory glance at the history, I see,,, and are also recent contributors to that article - so the assertion that "all anon contributions are from the same individual" is false. In addition, many of my contributions are made from a library networked computer (on Earthlink, TDC has previously informed me), as are the contributions of other individuals sitting across the room from me as I type. Rather than blocking or banning users with whom you disagree, how about I propose the following: Discuss your edits civily and logically, reach concensus, and incorporate the changes? Sure beats the mindless revert-wars of which you seem so fond. (Curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I must ask... Is TDC also Bruce Wayne?) 19:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
this is BTW, the same idiot who keeps going onto [2] another article you have been involved in. 23:44, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Can you guys please take this argument elsewhere? Gamaliel 07:48, 19 August 2005 (UTC)


User: Gamaliel - I see where you participated in the matter concerning Abraham Lincoln's sexuality that was discussed and voted upon on Talk:Abraham Lincoln. There has been a lengthy and exhausting discussion surrounding this exact same issue at Talk:Elvis Presley and the archived Talk pages as well. Because this has the potential to create a new standard for what is acceptable sources, I thought that you might want to be aware of it.

If the policy consensus you and others arrived at on the Abraham Lincoln issue is set aside in the Presley article it will result in new ones for countless others. I think your group discussion that arrived at a determination of what constituted a proper source should be defined by the Wikipedia community and set as firm policy which would go a long way in helping to substantially reduce the tiresome and repeated edit wars. Thank you for your interest. Please note I have left the same message for others who worked on this matter. Ted Wilkes 20:03, August 18, 2005 (UTC)


Pisharodi has a GNU license on the bottom. I wasn't sure what Wikipedia's stance was on that. It doesn't seem like it belongs on the actual article, if anywhere. So, I'm handing it over to you, so I can learn. Kushboy 21:22, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea what to make of it, sorry. Might want to drop a note at the village pump or WP:AN. Gamaliel 04:06, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism in progress on Joe Scarborough[edit]

Can you pls help out with the current vandalism on our favorite MSNBC's contributor's page?

Thanks, --JPotter 18:43, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

No problem, I'll keep an eye on it. Gamaliel 18:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry for not getting involved at this page. I've gone there a couple of times and tried to soak up the gist of the issue and I just can't seem to grasp it. (Damn this ADD...) -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
It's actually a pretty trivial matter that has been blown out of proportion by drive-by anons. I wish I could just forget the whole damn thing, frankly. :) Gamaliel 04:05, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


can you explain why you reverted me here?--MONGO 02:47, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

I thought the other version was superior. Gamaliel 04:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps further qualification can be made here--MONGO 07:11, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Rex All Over Again ?[edit]

I just looked at that old RfAr. I don't see any difference. Robert McClenon 08:00, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Lee Harvey Oswald[edit]

Hi I mailed you during the week but perhaps you didnt get it. You reverted my very minor changes to the Oswald page . How can you prove the picture was taken on any specific date? If Oswald shot the General why did they leave him free to shoot the president? I still have to put to you that reams of copy on the life of this man cant be written from an NPOV. Your revision isnt neutral because youve deleted my point that the picture was tested by 2 police forces outside the US and they concluded it was fake - FACT. To underline my point about neutrality I suggest the title of the newspaper the man in the pic is holding is not legible. You might disagree and I could answer that Ive seen numerous conflicting claims of what it (the newspaper title)is . But always the question remains why is it relevant what newspaper the man is holding ? unsigned comment by Hengistmcstone (talk · contribs)

1) Marina Oswald took the picture and presumably testified to its date and authenticity. I have never heard of a "police force" concluding the picture was fake.

2) It was not learned that Oswald attempted to assassinate General Walker until after he killed Kennedy.

3) I don't know if it's particularly "relevant" to anything the name of the newspaper, but it is interesting and there's no reason not to include that fact. Gamaliel 17:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your reply and Ill try to remember to sign this one :-) Well Ive done some homework and Ill have to give you the dates and photographer as Marina, but there was also testimony suggesting the pictures were faked . Also it turns out individual professional investigators concluded fakery, rather than police forces, most notably Robert Groden of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The phrase “Since Oswalds death” is going to have to go. Its misleading because the photos were never published until some months after his death , but its also untrue because the picture was shown to Oswald in custody and he claimed it was made by somebody superimposing his face onto someone elses body (Marrs Crossfrire p451). So those questions arose earlier than the article currently suggests- even if they were suppressed by Oswalds murder.

Your point 2 raises more questions than it answers. Any connections between Oswald and the Walker shooting were drawn after the Kennedy slaying so the chain of evidence is least to say suspect. This casts doubt on the provenance of the article as a whole.Oswalds place in history is as the assassin of Kennedy, not Walker or Tippit. Inclusion of the Walker episode and other superfluous information raises the question are those events being used to support a biased case for the character of this enigmatic figure ?

It is interesting what the newspaper might be, I cant see any writing on it myself but Ive found references citing it as the Daily Worker, or the Militant and Im sure I have a reference to it somewhere as a gun catalog.

Regards Hengistmcstone (talk · contribs)

Oswald's attempt to kill Walker and his murder of Tippit are hardly "superfluous" to his biography.

HTML tags are largely unnecessary in Wikipedia and just skipping a space will do the job of a /p/ tag. Also, the most commonly used form of signing here is with four tildes (~), which will also provide a date, like so. Gamaliel 14:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Two RfCs[edit]

I will wait until this evening (Eastern Time) to see whether the anonymous editor can put together an RfC that has any real content before I respond to it. I would suggest that you do the same. Robert McClenon 15:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Please stop[edit]

This is not the place for personal disputes. I'm making an effort to tone down the rhetoric and allow real editing to take place rather than continuous personal attacks. I will be archiving all discussions of RfC's to personal pages and consolidating links to them at the bottom. - Sleepnomore 22:01, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

I only reverted that removal because I thought you were only removing JML's comment or new comments. If you apply this standard to everyone's comments, I will not interfere. Gamaliel 03:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the help. I was still in the process of removing them when you reverted. Please look at my edits on the page. I've made an attempt to remove the user discussions, although, arguably some more could be removed. If you disagree with some of this, could you let me know? I'm just trying to tone that whole argument down. Practicing a little politics myelf I guess. Thanks in advance. - Sleepnomore 03:13, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Restored Joke[edit]

My comment(a joke obviously) was deleted recently with the personal attacks for whatever reason:

Gamaliel, I'm shocked at your violation of the rules. I've confirmed with the cabal's High Council that, for publicly criticizing a Kennedy, you've been docked 10% of your pay for this week. As you know, the penalty for a second violation in the same week is that you will be tied to a chair and forced to listen to Rush Limbaugh for an hour, so watch yourself. JamesMLane 20:54, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[static]'re listening to the i'm just reporting the facts. And..., you know, I'm really gettin ticked off with these liberals lately. Let me tell you, the only reason people like Gamaliel defend, like Ted Kennedy, I'm tellin you, its because he's another rich liberal hypocrite...another liberal elite who controls the party and pulls all the stings. He's another liberal...who makes more money than the CEO's, who America needs to run companies, and protect jobs....American jobs, you now, the ones the liberals complain about going overseas even though they want all the environmental regualtion,...he makes more than the guys he's spends bashing all day, remember..uhh..his speech at Boston, "the excesses of Enron". Its that same crap...I mean Gamaliel is another idol worsipping christian-hating hypocrtical biggot. And this is all true, you look at the facts...He wants to give these politicians and millionares special treatment,...tell me..right now...tell me...what do rich liberals offer to society? They spend social security money on lolypops for orphans,...hmm...what else do we got, they complain about the deficit and then say "everything is underfunded, Bush doesn't like children nah nah nah". And these are the facts folks. Well its time to let the veiwers weigh in, lets uh,... lets see what callers we've got waiting, after this message about guter cleaners.....[music, one long augmenting note follwed by a short one of a lower pitch]......[static]...Voice of All(MTG) 07:02, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel, you are hereby ejected from the pro-Kennedy POV warrior cabal. You are now and a traitor, and forever a traitor. May your soul forever wallow in anguish. 'Qapla! --kizzle 07:13, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Is there a word in Klingon for loneliness? Gamaliel 13:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
So, did you enjoy your taste of Rush? The cabal is very swift at punishment. "A culling is at hand human, a culling!"Voice of All(MTG) 16:21, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


As an administrator, why do you continue personal attacks and ridicule on the Kennedy talk pages? The chicken comments was uncalled for (although admittedly somewhat humorous). While it does serve a comedic purpose, it obviously is just going to produce more of the same chatter we continue to see on the page. - Sleepnomore 16:49, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

I disgaree, they were entirely called for. JML posted a reasonable, civil note pointing out that the anon was calling upon a banned user for assistance. The anon responded with a juvenile taunt. Gamaliel 17:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)


Hi, have you considered making this one of the test templates, or listing it on their talk pages? I didn't want to Tfd it, as it seems like a useful addition to the lot of them {{test}}, {{test2}}, etc.. Thanks. Who?¿? 08:28, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


File:Medieval08.gif I hereby award you the Defender of the WikiBarnstar for your dedication in preventing vandalism. D. J. Bracey (talk) California state flag.png 22:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

WikiDefender Barnstar.png

Take care, D. J. Bracey (talk) California state flag.png 22:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Fudge Family[edit]

Because he wrote it. In attempting to complete the various nuttall encyclopaedia pages project, I have used the principle that if a work by an author is listed on their page (and Fudge Family _is_ listed on Thomas Moore's page) then it's fair game to redirect the title of the work to the author. Otherwise, I make a stub that links TO the author. See Wikipedia:Nuttall Encyclopedia topics for more info on that project. Rick Boatright 00:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I figured it was something like that. I have no objection, I was just curious. I read the Moore article but somehow missed the 'other works' section at the bottom. Oops. Gamaliel 00:30, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

3RR Violation Reported[edit]

Gamaliel, you have been reported again for a 3RR violation. This violation occured at the Rosemary Kennedy page. Your assumption that my wife Susanrd is a sock puppet is without basis. She has every right as a user to post her opinion. 20:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Can you read? My user page clearly says, in bold, to post new messages to the bottom of the page, yet you repeatedly post them to the top. The 3RR clearly states that you can revert three times in 24 hours and a fourth revert is a violation, yet you have repeatedly reported me for imaginary violations of only three reverts. Please read first before you waste my time and yours. Gamaliel 20:15, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Rosemary Kennedy[edit]

The multiple-personality IP is back. Wife, child, family dog; don't know what it' supposed to be today. --Calton | Talk 00:29, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

I've blocked, but I'm not sure what to do about the rest of the family. Gamaliel 00:33, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi There![edit]

Hi Gamaliel. I missed all of you. I'm not understanding what's going on with the Joe Scarbourough page, namely the Vanity Fair article - I can't find any source for it. I find the "Never again" comments but not an actual cite of this article anywhere. Point me to the right direction. Ray Lopez 16:32, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your addition on the Vincent Price page[edit]

Just wanted to say thanks for adding the info about Vincent and Sears making fine art available to the public and the link to the article about it. I live in Denver and when I read about this project beginning here in town in the biography of Vincent written by his daughter, Victoria, I went down to the library and dug into the microfilm of Denver's newspapers to find some interesting articles about the start of this sales campaign. That Sears building stayed basically the same until about 3 years ago when it went through a major remodel as part of the Cherry Creek shopping area renovation.MarnetteD | Talk 22:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Placing users in danger[edit]

Gamaliel, FYI Wikipedia_talk:Blocking_policy#Placing_users_in_danger SlimVirgin (talk) 02:27, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Launie Anderssohn[edit]

Hi Gamaliel,

When you refactored the Launie Anderson VfD, you moved the valid votes by Blackcap and Farquard to the "invalid" section. It turns out that this does not influence the vote, but please be more careful next time. -- Eugene van der Pijll 10:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Farquard's vote was his second edit, which made it invalid in my judgement. Blackcap added his vote as part of a reply to a lengthy discussion beneath Farquard's invalid vote, it was either break up the thread of that discussion or leave it intact and risk overlooking his vote, another judgement call. Gamaliel 20:16, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually, Farquard's vote was not his second edit; he has been on wikipedia for almost a year now, with about 700 edits. Eugene van der Pijll 21:52, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm. Looks like I did screw up. Sorry. Gamaliel 22:06, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Trolling Sockpuppet[edit]

Though the troublesome troll Ray Lopez has been blocked, it appears that he has resurfaced as User:Calton Sr. See my Talk page and Joe Scarborough for his latest annoyances. --Calton | Talk 21:09, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Looks like Theresa Knott blocked the account before I could get to it. Gamaliel 21:42, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


your tweak on Ted's failings was terrifically done. Wiki pat yourself. BTW have you monitored Category:Puerto Rican people lately? Up to 9 articles already!Kyle Andrew Brown 20:20, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Article deletion note[edit]

You voted previously to keep the article Rogers Cadenhead. You may have changed your mind now that the author has admitted to writing the article himself “as an experiment.” He himself says, “I am somewhat eager to see this vote end with my deletion.”


--Quasipalm 17:08, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Michael Weiner aka Savage[edit]


Edit page: Michael Weiner aka Savage

Under section: “Radio” factual errors. Note: There was no Liberal Talk Host on KSFO in 1994.

Note: Weiner started at KGO prior to move to KSFO. Weiner himself acknowledges this as he just celebrated 10th year on radio.

Under section: MSNBC Note: Prior post defames caller to MSNBC show saying he “posed” as a homosexual, etc.

Note: Article has no contrary information or links. As additions show the article appears to be entirely written by subject himself.

You are free to make changes and corrections to the article as well as add links. Gamaliel 02:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Odd slander[edit]

For some reason, a vandal on my user page seems to want to attribute his/her change to you: [3]. Maybe someone you know; who knows. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 05:15, 2005 September 3 (UTC)

He's just some unimaginative dullard with too much time on his hands. Ignore him and just revert if it happens again. He'll get bored and find some piece of tin foil to play with soon enough. Gamaliel 06:11, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Next impersonator: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). · Naive cynic · 16:58, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

You'd think he'd get bored with this. Well, I guess you can't masturbate 24 hours a day. Gamaliel 18:00, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Ive done a lot of work to write a piece on the backyard photos of Lee Harvey Oswald, you keep reverting it back to the ill informed nonsense there was before and the only explanation I have from you is "(vulgar comments removed)". I dont find that a very convincing argument so Im reverting it back. Please grow up. Hengistmcstone 22:43, 4 September 2005 (UTC)hengistmcstone

If you look at the edit history or see the comments immediately above yours here, you will note that those vulgar comments were posted by a vandal, not by me. Please make sure that people actually did the things you accuse them of doing. Gamaliel 22:48, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Im sorry . Its just that your handle was either side of the comments... Hengistmcstone 21:05, 6 September 2005 (UTC)hengistmcstone
It's okay, I understand your confusion. Just go by the edit history and not what it says in the edit summary. We get attempts at impersonation here from time to time. Gamaliel

Oh dear, and Special:Contributions/ now ... TheVenerableBede 14:29, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm impressed at his stamina. Gamaliel 17:39, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


Gamaliel, I transcluded your permablock to Wikipedia:Account suspensions/JS Jr. Uncle Ed 15:19, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Gamaliel 17:38, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Discussion on Saviano Incident + Charlie Daniels article[edit]


Greetings! Just posting here to say that I would like to discuss the Saviano incident's relevence to the Charlie Daniels article more fully and in-depth over there on its discussion page. Also, if we cannot come to a consensus, how would we go about some sort of moderation for a final decision? I have a bad tendency to get lost in the Wikipedia when I'm trying to find something like that. What can I say? Shiny things catch my eye. *chuckles*

Looking forward to discussing/debating with you.

--Kell 20:45, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps we should start of by asking for other opinions at Wikipedia:Requests for comment? Gamaliel 04:16, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Not a bad thought, not a bad thought at all. Want we should do that and then start debating, or vice versa?
EDIT: Would we be wanting an RfC, or a Third Party Opinion?

--Kell 03:16, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

Judyth A. Vary Baker[edit]




I have compared the two articles. There are a few passages in the Wikipedia which appear uncomfortably close to the article here, but it does not appear to be a direct copy as you claim and thus I don't see a copyright violation. You or anyone else are welcome to list the article at Wikipedia:Copyright problems if you disagree. Gamaliel 17:18, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Good Job![edit]

I think that is the best comprimise we can hope for. That should work, assuming TDC, Agiantman, and 24 are reasonable people.Voice of All(MTG) 21:28, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Given past experience, I don't think they are particularly reasonable, but perhaps they are weary of this nonsense as much as we are. Gamaliel 21:33, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No Original Research/Annie Hall/Jack Ruby[edit]

Hello, I see you have encountered the wrath of Johncarvill on the Jack Ruby article]]. It looks like he is now ediing under User:Neilmc (account created today, pushing the same points, and editing the same articles, or at leat, in your case, the same ballpark). Just so you know, we're having similar problems with him over the Annie Hall article. There's an interesting exchange on my talk page too. The JPS 20:22, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Looks like he's back for more at Lee Harvey Oswald too. Gamaliel 21:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Lenin's Hanging Order[edit]

Check the history on the bottom. User wrote "(fuck you commies)" as the edit comment. Any way to change that? Kushboy 04:55, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

I've scrubbed it clean. Gamaliel 05:56, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


Brother, without profanity, the earth would be a cold and barren place. why dont you go scrub out all the freakish marxists who are trying to change articles so that mass murder is rewritten as noble patriotism? this offends the rational being far more than curse words.

although i must admit i was overboard to write that comment and sincerely apologize to all commies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

In general I agree, however Wikipedia edit summaries are not appropriate places for profanity, anti-Marxist (or anti-anything) pronouncements, or anything except describing the contents of the edit. Gamaliel 06:11, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Your Reverts[edit]

Escuse me, why are you reverting me with no explanation? Stirling admitted that Ruy_Lopez is his sockpuppett. I am within the norms of wikipedia to put that warning on his page. So why are you reverting my warning? 22:36, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Prove it. Gamaliel 23:05, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

A Really Vile Troll[edit]

It appears that you have really set off one particularly vile troll. Do you have any particular guess as to which one it was, or whether they are really all sockpuppets of each other? Robert McClenon 21:41, 12 September 2005 (UTC)


Hi Gamaliel, I see you had some unpleasant edit summaries directed at you. In case it's helpful, I had some too on my user and talk page [4]

[5] though perhaps not from the same person as yours, but I thought I'd let you know anyway in case they're connected. I felt mine was probably done by the Feces troll, who used a number of accounts, but started with User:Eyeon. I'm only guessing there's a link because some of the vandalism on my page was an image of a human turd, and Eyeon got mad at me for protecting Feces to stop him from inserting that same image; and also because the vandalism on my page started not long after I stopped the same user from trolling on Diarrhea. The things we get involved in for Wikipedia.

Anyway, I'm sorry you were the target of it. It's not a very nice feeling. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:21, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

A belated thanks for your message. The daily vandalism was very discouraging at first, but after a while it became easy to ignore. I suspect the culprit was, but it could be anyone, really. Gamaliel 17:41, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Just a thought[edit]

This may not satisfy all of your needs, but if you don't show some support, we're not likely to get even this much. — Xiongtalk* 10:46, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Quit erasing my comments on talk pages[edit]

Do it again, and I will file a complaint.-- 20:44, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead. The talk page is not the place for your anti-Byrne rants, it is a place for discussion of the article. Gamaliel 21:14, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
It was not an anti-byrne rant. I was objecting to 90% of the article being DELETED just because Byrne demanded it. Try reading my comments before you delete them.-- 16:00, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
You called him a "bitter old man". Talk pages are not forums for insults or libel. Gamaliel 16:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)


Hi I noticed u gave this guy a warning previously and there are several others on his User Talk page, he is back vandalizing the Nazi architecture page, would you please block his account. WritersCramp 22:39, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't permanently block an IP address, especially since there are legit edits in the history, which means other users are sharing the same IP address. We can only whack him when he starts vandalising again. Gamaliel 07:19, 16 September 2005 (UTC)


I am asking past editors of the Karl Rove page to weigh in on a survey. If you can spare a couple of minutes, please visit this page: Talk:Karl Rove/September Survey, read the introduction, and answer the three questions that have been posed. Thank you. paul klenk 09:17, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Nandesuka's RfA vs. Nandesuka's RfA[edit]

Thanks for supporting my RfA. I'll work hard to try to live up to the confidence you're showing in me. Nandesuka 01:03, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

You rock.[edit]

John Byrne talk page. You rock. :-)

Yes, rigorous fact checking is all I'm after. It would be so much nicer if Byrne would co-operate by telling me what was wrong with the old version other than basically saying "It's all crap" -- but fine, that's his right. No one is obligated to help us. So, we do it ourselves. If I can find the time, I'm going to personally pitch in on this project. --Jimbo Wales 01:25, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Jimbo Wales. Gamaliel 17:44, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel, should John Byrne remain protected at this point? It was getting hit by a lot of vandalism, but I can see it is in the middle of Jimbo's radical experiment, so please feel free to unprotect if you feel that is best. I'm keeping the article on my watchlist. Cheers, Func( t, c, @, ) 16:46, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Protecting it was a good idea. We should keep it locked for a little while longer until the anti-Byrne vandals get bored and wander off. Gamaliel 17:44, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
I'd give that at least a fortnight (and probably more than a few blocks). Between the amount of general Byrne-hatred out there (which this whole episode is doing nothing to dispel) and the "radical experiment" (especially since it's Jimbo's "radical experiment"), I can see this running and running - then, when it seems to have died down, starting up again. - SoM 22:18, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

John Byrne (again)[edit]

Hi Gamaliel, I've left a comment on the talk page of the WikiProject Comics Collaboration of the Fortnight (COMICSCOTF) regarding the nomination of John Byrne. Would be interested in your thoughts (on that page, of course). Great work on the Byrne article, BTW. Cheers! Vizjim 22:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Request for a link[edit]

I'm trying to analyze User:BigDaddy777's behavior in context, based on the RfC. This is very hard, because the RfC quotes him out of context; I can't fairly analyze a quote that way. Working through the threads to do post mortems is extremely time consuming.

Would you please send me one or two links to a discussion of some length, representing BDs worst behavior? It should include more than just one or two isolated remarks.

Please leave it at my talk page under User talk:Paul Klenk#BG777 Worst-Of Threads, trying not duplicate a thread submitted someone else. I will continue to sort through the RfC, but one or two links would be a great help. Thanks.

paul klenk talk 07:43, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]

Thanks for your vote of support in my RfA. Though sometimes one must be cruel to be kind, I like to think I fall slightly short of cruel...but then again, if the situation warrants it, well, that might describe me on occasion. -R. fiend 18:40, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/BigDaddy777[edit]

Since you endorsed the original RfC [6], I thought you might be interested to know that since the dispute resolution process has stalled due to BigDaddy's refusal to respond to this RfC, some are now questioning whether an RfAr should be filed.[7] Your comments on this new issue would be appreciated. 05:05, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


Hey I was just wondering if you can help me out with something because there is another user that has the same IPP address as me. This has created several problems with me being blocked due to that persons innapproriate edits. I was wondering if you could help me because I do not understand why he has the same IPP Address as me and if its possible to watch his actions on certain articles. Any help would be greatly appeciated thanks. User:Empty 2005

Most likely it is because the vandal shares the same service provider as you do. I have been inadvertantly blocked for the same reason. If you give me your IP address I can look into the matter. Gamaliel 16:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC) on Racism[edit] has violated 3RR on Racism. A sock puppet or friend of<> TIA, Mwanner | Talk 00:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind. Sorry-- didn't read the whole number. -- Mwanner | Talk 15:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Tenebrae Byrne response[edit]

Hi, Gamaliel! Not a problem at all! And may I give you kudos 'n' compliments on handling something difficult with grace under pressure. While a subject should insist on accuracy, there was no reason to ditch protocol and go above the rest of the Wiki community's head to do so. (That the Wiki founder grants Mr. Byrne special approval privileges presumably not given others turns the whole "objective" notion of Wiki on its head -- putting poor people like you, rather than the founder himself, in the middle.)

Regardless: I did list one source under "External Links" on the Byrne page. It's from Byrne Robotics' own forum: . The story is scanned and spread over several posts, and is also referenced elsewhere on the Web, such as at and (which mentions specifically it was issue #11 -- I should add that). Besides which, I own a childhood (well, teenhood) copy of that issue of CPL. Knew the poor, late Duffy Vohland, too.

Ironically, I remember how much all of us in the fan community at the time were rooting for John Byrne -- one of "us" -- to make it in comics. I recall sending Marvel a laudatory letter about one of his first Iron Fist stories, pointing out a panel on one page that I thought was particularly good. A couple of weeks later, I found the page in the mail, with a note written on the back saying, "Since you liked it so much, you might as well have it. Yers, John Byrne"

Nice story, right? Unfortunately it doesn't end there. Years, years, YEARS later, at a comics convention, a mutual acquaintance to whom I told this story thought Byrne would enjoy meeting the person face-to-face that he'd done such a nice thing for two decades earlier. And I'd get a chance to thank him in person.

And Byrne sourly responded, "Yeah, I never did that again. Don't know why I did it then." He grudgingly accepted my handshake and I was dismissed.

I'm surprised he didn't demand it back...!

Ah, well. Be that as it may, the ROG-2000 background offers what I think is relevant detail on the creation of his first comics character, on the way collaboration and serendipity played a part, and on the unusual circumstance of a fanzine character actually becoming a mainstream comics character. And as a journalist, I don't believe anything in the added ROG-2000 sentences is anything other than objective and illuminating.

Thanks for the opportunity to "speak" with you! I don't know if you're a comics fan, but I've been trying hard these past few weeks to enter important overlooked comics creators like Superman artist Wayne Boring and Golden Age Captain America artist Al Avison -- one of the two guys who took over from Jack Kirby -- and like that. All the best, Tenebrae 22:48, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Byrne isn't getting "approval priviliges" and Jimbo isn't really asking anything that we shouldn't already be doing with every article here, just factchecking and NPOVing. Sure, I was annoyed initially but now I'm angry at everyone here and at Byrne's board, all of whom enjoy complaining but almost none of whom want to lift a finger to solve the problem. Especially Byrne himself, who seems to think it's a point of honor not even to mention why he objected to the article. Byrne seems to have earned his reputation as a pompous ass, and that story you told me is one of many I've heard about him. Of course, he has a point when he often says that a lot fan stories have no basis in fact, but where there's smoke there's often "a flame about this high" (which was the title of his rant column in the Next Men letter col).
Your ROG-2000 info is obviously spot on and well-sourced. While you have a good point that the details are relevant, I wonder if we shouldn't create a small article on the character and his publication history and move a lot of the details there. Apparently Pacific Comics published a ROG book briefly, though I've never seen it.
I've glanced through your contribution history and I'm impressed. You obviously have a great deal of knowledge of comics history, esp. the early stuff which I don't know a lot about. So much of the comics stuff on Wikipedia is unsourced, spotty, or written in a grammar-free breathless fanboy style so someone like you can help this project a great deal in that area. Me, I'm a comics fan but it's been years since I've been a regular reader so I have to do a lot of research to work on these articles and it's not as much fun as it seems. ;) Gamaliel 04:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks so much for the kind words. Too few of them around these days.
Yeah, I'll look up the possible Pacific Comics thing and do that ROG-2000 entry as you suggest. That's a good idea.
And actually, maybe you can help me with something. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to upload comic-book-cover jpgs (and I'm professionally experienced with the Web and know HTML & FTP & all that). I even downloaded the Wiki tool for streamlined uploading, and even though it looked like everything worked on a trial upload ("YellowClaw2.jpg"), the image won't show up in "The Yellow Claw" entry. (I have the code in there still, but commented out.) Any advice or EZ tips? :-) My user page, if you want to reply there, is THANKS! Tenebrae 21:42, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Oy! I think I figured it out. Or at least it's there. As Emily Litella used to say, "Never mind!" THANKS anyway, Gamaliel. Continued good luck on your difficult work. All the best, --Tenebrae 04:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


Hi, you've reported copyright infringements to WP:CP in the last week, a new measure was recently passed to allow the speedy deltion of new pages that are cut and paste copyvios. Please follow these instructions if you come across this type of copyvio. Thanks. --nixie 23:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Blatant copyright infringements may now be "speedied"

If an article and all its revisions are unquestionably copied from the website of a commercial content provider and there is no assertion of permission, ownership or fair use and none seems likely, and the article is less than 48 hours old, it may be speedily deleted. See CSD A8 for full conditions.

After notifying the uploading editor by using wording similar to:

{{nothanks-sd|pg=page name|url=url of source}} -- ~~~~

Blank the page and replace the text with

{{db-copyvio|url=url of source}}

to the article in question, leaving the content visible. An administrator will examine the article and decide whether to speedily delete it or not.

Please use edit summaries[edit]

Please use edit summaries.... otherwise copyvio removals look as blanking vandalism on my RC patrol software. Thanks. ≈ jossi fresco ≈ 00:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for the heads up. Gamaliel 00:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

You Give Good Love[edit]

  • I have expanded the article providing sources. I would be grateful if you could have a look. Capitalistroadster 10:49, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[edit]

I don't think we should block this IP for one week because we are also blocking many helpful contributors from a large Australian educational institute. Always take great care when blocking school/college IP's because many people use these IP's everyday. Please consider blocking for only two or three days maximum. — Stevey7788 (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Take a look at the User Contributions. If it's a school or college, it's one that hasn't yet made a useful contribution. -- Mwanner | Talk 01:35, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Sinéad O'Connor[edit]

Just want to drop you a quick note, to thank you for your recent edits to the Sinéad O'Connor article. Keep up the good work! RMoloney 23:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Now more than ever[edit]

Lucky 6.9 has nominated me for adminship; vote early, vote often. :) tregoweth 06:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Extreme non-lesbian support, yo! Gamaliel 06:16, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Conservative views dominating books and television.[edit]

On the Great Liberal Backlash of 2003 you reverted my edit regarding conservative views NOT dominating books and television without any explanation even though I provided an explanation for my edit. I find it ironic that you include a link re not being a "dick" on your user page because removing someone's edit without comment does seem to me to be a bit "dickish".

I can't see how someone can claim conservative views dominate television when it's filled with shows depicting the kind of morals (or lack thereof) that infuriate conservatives. That's to say nothing of overtly political shows like "The West Wing", and the newly minted "Commander in Chief" which illustrate a less-than-conservative perspective on things. As for books, while I'm less familar with the state of book publishing today, I find it hard to believe conservatives dominate.

My opinion notwithstanding, the statement that conservative views dominate books and television is a bold one that I believe warrants some supporting evidence. Do you have any?

Lawyer2b 06:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Your user page also indicates you are an administrator. Checking the article on Administrators, I see that it requests adminstrators "...not use one-click rollback on edits that are not simple vandalism; please use manual rollback with an appropriate edit summary." I would have appreciated it if you had followed that request as well. Lawyer2b 06:25, 12 October 2005 (UTC)


Please do not ban

This is a computer in the media center of a high school that has a population of over 1000 and it would greatly irk future wikipedians. i understand that someone is using this computer to vandalize wikipedia, but it would also have a negitive impact on the school if you were to ban the address. thank you, --Akako 19:42, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

The IP address will likely not be banned, but may be temporarily banned from time to time due to persistent vandalism. Gamaliel 19:54, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I need some help, I'm being bullied by admins[edit]

Gamaliel, we've never even engaged in any type of discourse, but I need help from an Administrator. My problem is explained at User talk:Alexander 007, section titled User talk:Decius. What's going on here? I feel like my rights are being trampled on. Hope you can help. -Alexander 007 20:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

For the background to all this, see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Decius again. -Alexander 007 20:56, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

This honestly doesn't appear to be "bullying" but an honest discussion of whether of not our policies allow the deletion of talk pages. I'm not sure that they do; I recall that a former administrator's talk page was restored after he deleted it. Gamaliel 21:07, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

But I'm not an administrator, nor was I one before. I've seen users have their talk pages deleted before, a number of times. Is there a mix-up here? I think I'm proceeding according to policy. -Alexander 007 21:10, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel, it appears that Jtkiefer is simply incorrect here. I am proceeding within policy, and I will add the delete (speedy delete) template again. I would like to have some back-up in this move, but what can I expect. In other words, if Jtkiefer reverts me and locks the page, maybe you can revert him and unlock it. -Alexander 007 21:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
As I said, I am not sure that policy allows you or anyone to delete or speedy delete their own user talk page. Could you provide a link to the relevant policy which you think allows this to be done? I will not overrule another administrator without a relevant policy to reference. Gamaliel 21:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel, I'm not intentionally trying to delete the page myself. I listed it at Wikipedia:Speedy deletions, for an administrator to delete it, then I added the template. So I guess I'm supposed to just request it there, and wait, without adding the template? If so, then I see the whole mix-up. I won't put the template back---but I hope my request doesn't get ignored for weeks & weeks. -Alexander 007 21:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure it matters how the request is made or who deletes it, it just matters whether or not it can be deleted at all according to policy. Gamaliel 21:54, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
So, who do I contact to proceed with this problem? I don't want to delete it myself, I just want it to be deleted. My understanding was that this is within policy. -Alexander 007 21:56, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Once again, what policy allows the deletion of a user talk page? Gamaliel 22:02, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Here, it is described: [8]. It is definitely within policy, so I felt like Jtkiefer was being a bully, but he may have just been mistaken. I apologize if you're not interested in helping, but I needed some assistance. -Alexander 007 22:09, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Now we're getting somewhere. Now that I've read the relevant policy (of which I was ignorant before) it seems that you can request your user talk page be deleted. However, it also seems that your request need not be honored if there was "significant abuse" or an "administrative need to retain the personal information". It seems at least two administrators object to the deletion, and I suspect the reason is that they wish to retain a record of past incidents involving yourself. I feel like there should be a very good reason to overrule their decision, and I'm not sure that just the fact that you want this deleted is really enough. Why is it not enough that the page is a redirect to your current talk page? Gamaliel 01:51, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Logged out for a few hours, would have responded earlier, to clear things up. Gamaliel, I do not think that one of those two administrators (User:Dbachmann) would agree that there was significant abuse. As for User:Encephalon, I don't know. The reason I want to delete User talk:Decius, not just redirect it, is because it is the first step of a two-step move, the second step being deleting User:Decius. These two pages contain personal information that I would rather delete. That's the reason. Nothing else. A redirect is not the thing. I am tempted to say "be lenient with the Wikipedia stuff, as this concerns things outside of Wikipedia", but you might take that to mean that I am slighting the importance of Wikipedia concerns. No. I just find that my concerns take precedence---just as your concerns would, if you were in this situation. This is also not a matter concerning law enforcement or what not, it just concerns personal info. -Alexander 007 02:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC) 02:21, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I am very serious about this, and am willing to write directly to the two administrators in question. I am not doing this to "clean my Wikipedia record", I must admit. I am doing this to take some data off of the internet. As I made clear elsewhere, I am withdrawing more & more from Wikipedia. I am not seeking to tidy things up so I can "become an Admin" or whatever. I'm not sure where I should continue arguing my case, but I will. This request for deletion was first made on October 6th---before my first trouble with any Administrator. I'm asking the people involved to look a bit beyond the trouble I got in with User:Jtkiefer over my bad edit summaries on my User Page after that request was made (which deletion was carried out, but the page was restored in violation of policy, as far as I can tell, by User:Curps). -Alexander 007 02:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't see how undoing the deletion was a violation of policy. In any case, perhaps you could suggest that (if this is possible) the personal information be removed from the history and the rest of it remain intact. Gamaliel 02:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
If that's possible, it sounds fine by me. Where should I request that? -Alexander 007 02:35, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I suggest you add that to the existing discussion at WP:AN/I. Gamaliel 02:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
It appears that Decius has added personal information to his talkpage (such as his real name), and he wants it gone; that seems like a fair reason, and we would certainly act on it if the information had been added by somebody else to annoy the user, so I don't see we shouldn't react in this case where the user later decides it was unwise to disclose personal information on Wikipedia. Developers can remove parts of an article's history, so if we decide to remove just an individual edit from the page history, we'd need a developer for that. But since Decius isn't involved in any arbitration case or rfc, I see no pressing reason why we should not simply humour him and delete his talkpage. If "pressing administrative needs" do not require a clearly phrased description, the requirement becomes quite arbitrary and impossible to observe consistently. regards, dab () 13:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I have no particular objection if that page gets deleted, but User:Alexander 007 wants me to overrule other administrators in a matter of which I have no previous knowledge or involvement. I feel like I need more knowledge and motivation than "eh, why not?" before I overrule the judgements of others. Gamaliel 18:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

REM revert....[edit]

Hi Gamaliel,

Album infobox 2 is valid and the other user - who clearly feels he has a monopoly on the articles - keeps refuting the outcome and reverts the change. It's really petty, but the template is valid and he needs to learn to collaboarte and let others make improved changes. He's also inserted faulty review links that send you to and Wikipedia does not condone promotion of industries. He knows this well, but does not listen to the rules.

I'm glad you noticed this. I would appreciate some assistance because there is nothing invalid about the template. And he is the only one that appears to have issues with it on the REM articles, while virtually no one else does.

Thanks... BGC 21:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not going to take sides in this dispute until I learn more about it.
With regards to, I understand that we don't put up sales links, but many users (including myself) have linked to's review excerpts when they are unavailable elsewhere on the web, and I don't see anything wrong with this. Gamaliel 21:10, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I have answered to your comment in my talk page. I have links there, too. I have commented my behaviour in edit summaries more than BGC. In brief, read all the material before you believe BGC. -Hapsiainen 21:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
The only thing you've "tried" to do is enforce what you want, without looking at the facts that the template is valid, because it was never deleted. BGC 21:32, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Please don't spread this war to my talk page. Now it seems that the only differences between the templates are the 1) use of mini album pics and 2) links to words like "minute" and "spring". Is this correct? If so, isn't this a bit minor for an edit war? What can we do to resolve this? Gamaliel 21:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

The 3 images template has been criticized in WikiProject Albums becuase of it usability and because several people (like me) believe that the small images aren't fair use. I write the minutes and seconds according to WikiProject Album recommendations. The 1 image template is also the WikiProject Albums recommendation. -Hapsiainen 21:47, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Just to let you know, Gamaliel, Hapsiainen has gone and changed all the pages again. That's his way of reaching a consensus. And furthermore, MANY people voted in favor of the template, as you will see if you look into it. BGC 23:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
And BGC reverted before me. Mel Etitis agrees with me on the page look, by the way. [9] -Hapsiainen 23:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Mel Etitis currently has an RfC page due to his obstinate ownership of pages [10]. Hapsiainen's behavior in this instance is strikingly similar. No interest in reaching a consensus, just pushing biases. BGC 00:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

This sort of rhetoric is unhelpful and I'd appreciate it if you do not indulge in it here. Let's stick to facts and not personalities please.
If Hapsiainen is following WikiProject Album recommendations, why should we not go with his version? Why should we overrule those recommendations? I'm not choosing sides yet, I just think this is a legitimate question. Gamaliel 02:00, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Because the album template in question has not been declared invalid at all. That's why. And his faulty review winks were declared as such in a previous discussion. BGC 02:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by "declared invalid" but if it is not the template recommended by the guidelines, why should we use it instead of the recommended one? Gamaliel 02:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
There was a request for deletion on it - which failed. Also, it's a recent template and therefore has not been worked into the guidelines yet. It's more helpful to have the extra images; big enough to recognize a cover you may not know the title of and they're small enough that they wouldn't hinder page loading. I would know since I have dial up. The whole point is this has nothing to do with the look of the template, but rather the fact that I had the gall to intrude on "their" pages with some edits. That's what the issue is. BGC 11:57, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
The majority of voters wanted to delete the template. There is currently discussion in Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums what to do with the template. There currently no-one wants to use it, not even the template creator. They oppose it because it has two extra images. Such thing can't be reworked. BGC hasn't commented there yet, though. There are other editors working on R.E.M. articles like Painbearer. There are no hostilities between us on music article matters. -Hapsiainen 20:44, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Just because the template survived deletion does not require that we use it. Since it is new, I think the proper thing to do in this case is build consensus to include it in the guidelines, not get into revert wars with people who are just following guidelines. No offense, but based solely on your comments here, it seems you are personalizing your Wikipedia conflicts when it is not necessary. Please read Wikipedia:Assume good faith. It seems you are attributing hurt feelings and territoriality to people who are only following preexisting guidelines. Gamaliel 18:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Buiteraptor and Buitreraptor[edit]

I need some help. Yesterday User:Darkwinter123 posted Buiteraptor which I checked on Google and got no hits. I asked him on his talk page about it and he said that it was new and would soon be in the press. I gave it several hours and still nothing in Google so I AfD it. Tonight while going through the RC I saw Buitreraptor (its got an extra R). I checked it out on Google and it gives about 258 hits (this is the best. I then went and checked Buiteraptor and found one hit. It is obvious that the two articles are the same creature but with a slightly different spelling.

I will go and apologise to Darkwinter123 and ask him about merging the two articles. Can you please close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Buiteraptor even though the consensus is to delete as it's obviously not a hoax.

And while you're doing that can you close this as well Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Psychothemia it's a misspelling of Psychothymia that I changed to a redirect. Thanks CambridgeBayWeather 08:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Psychothymia has already been closed by someone else. For Buiteraptor, there's no reason you can't bring up this info there and propose a merge or redirect. Gamaliel 18:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I would appreciate[edit]

Gammers, if you have a problem with my user page, please bring it up on my talk page instead of changing it. This could be construed as vandalism. Any futher attempts to alter my user page will be considered as such, and may result in you being banned from wikipedia. Have a good one! 16:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you refrain from mentioning my user name in any context on that page. It is not "your" user page, it is the page for an IP address which may be shared by multiple users, and as such you have no such claim on it. If you wish to report me for vandalism, you are free to do so. Have fun. Gamaliel 18:23, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, no, you are incorrect and exceeding the bounds of your authority. I'll take you off of my page as soon as you take me off of your "todo" page. Revert it again, and I'll report you for vandalism and request an RFC. This one will be certified. 00:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Hardly the same thing. My todo list contains merely a list of my administrative interactions with you, there are no references to your personal life or nothing resembling the sexual harrassment you have engaged in. You won't be able to blackmail me into deleting facts. Gamaliel 08:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Your message[edit]

Hmmm, it looks as though I should have gone for a month rather than just a week. --Mel Etitis (??? ??????) 22:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Kennedy Anons of the Past[edit]

For your information: Arbitration has been accepted against the anonymous editors of the Ted Kennedy and Rosemary Kennedy pages. I have copied most of the diffs from the RfC to the evidence page. You might want to take a look to ensure that I have not missed anything. Robert McClenon 11:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

*You deleted an article...please state why?[edit]

An article I have recently created (Harry Potter and the death of Harry Potter) was deleted by you. I checked the Wikipedia policies and was not able to find that seemed to be in conflict of what was in this article. Did I miss something? Please reply! I would like to know why my article was deleted. No offence, but if you have personal issues with the article, please undelete it.

Stolen Honor[edit]

Just now, you deleted the two minor edits which I made at Stolen Honor today. Please state your justification for this. In particular, please state why you deleted this edit. Certainly, the new preamble of "At this time this documentary was in the news, more" is factually acccurate and NPOV. I await your response.
Rex071404 05:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Michael Moore[edit]

Did you mean to revert's edit to Michael Moore? Maybe I'm just tired but it actually read alright to me. AlistairMcMillan 02:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes. I thought the original was fine and the use of the word "dissected" was an attempt to insert some pov. Gamaliel 02:29, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, that was my edit. I thought the original "admit" was POV and I was trying to remove that, also there were too many commas in the original. I'm easy either way. --Dilaudid 11:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Eugene "Porky" Lee"[edit]

I can't find an obituary reference for him. Has an obituary been published yet? --FuriousFreddy 00:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

There's a bunch on Google News now. Gamaliel 05:50, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Sad. Butch just passed away last month. --FuriousFreddy 06:41, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

"Horrendous attack"[edit]

I have tried to sort this out with Khaosworks. It's not possible to reason with a Jagrafess, however. You have, no doubt, seen the dispute. I even went as far as offering contact details of the speculators and I said that I'd ask the writer of Doctor Who's personal opinion on it, and he still said no. If you want to do something about it, please do.--TheDoctor10 (talk|email) 09:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:TheDoctor10. Gamaliel 17:29, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Care to have a look[edit]

Since you were nice enough to play the “plagiarism police” with me [11], I would appreciate it if you would chime in on this: Talk:Winter Soldier Investigation. Seriously, your input could put an end to this and would be appreciated. The talk page is very long, and you should probably read all of it before chiming in either way. TDC 01:04, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

As long as you are at it, you might chime in here as well. Thanks in advance, 04:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I have a lot on my wiki-plate right now but I'll read the relevant pages asap. Gamaliel 08:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

One to ponder.[edit]

Ironically, A1sdf removed your comment - about not removing comments from article talk pages - from his talk page. That's his right, of course, but still an amusing turn of events. Definitely one to ponder.  BD2412 talk 01:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

RfC about Stolen Honor[edit]

You've participated in editing Stolen Honor. I've started a Request for Comment at Talk:Stolen Honor#RfC re scope of this article because we appeared to have reached a point of diminishing returns on the talk page. JamesMLane 11:32, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Third Watch broadcasters[edit]

Hello Gamaliel, It's a shame I arrived to late in the discussion about the deletion of this page. I would have voted against. Why ? Because, as you mentionned its content is pointless trivia. If you looked at the Third Watch hisotry, you have probably noticed that I created the broadcaster page to move this list out of the main article core. It's a shame. Now this irrelevant info is back again. Lvr 13:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC) By the way, I did for other series 0:-)

Bad faith revert[edit]

I contend that this revert of yours [12], due to the (12) discrete edits of mine it wiped out at once (and your lack of notation regarding them at Talk:Stolen Honor) has the appearance of bad faith editing on your part.

Q: Have you quit the dialog at Stolen Honor? If not, please state for the record and individually, at Talk:Stolen Honor what your problem was with each of my (12) edits which you macro reverted in one swoop. I thank you in advance.

Rex071404 09:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad you asked. My problem is that you have heavily altered or eliminated my recent edits (which were an attempt to compromise and satisfy all parties involved) without any discussion or dialog, while expecting others to do so for before changing your edits and acting like no one else is attempting to dialog or compromise. I suggest you follow your own advice and dialog before making these changes or our dispute will most likely continue. Gamaliel

That's a hoot - I have been dialogging, it's you who swooped in and wiped out my edits with a revert. And it was edits which you reverted, not a revert. I never agreed that an article goes to a posture of stasis after each time you edit it. I've made clear my views - it's up to you to justify your revert - I have justified my edits. Rex071404 09:32, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I have made a good faith effort to compromise, which you have ignored while you continue to act as if you are the only one dialoging and attempting to compromise. I will continue to revert if you do not engage in dialog regarding these edits. Gamaliel 09:40, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Answered here:[13] Rex071404 17:36, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


Good job cleaning up my edits to the Ted Joans profile. The one thing I did achieve was drawing attention to this neglected artist and poet. Also, I had considered a link to the Deyoung Museum, but was uncertain if I should include it when none was available. Now I know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terry1944 (talkcontribs)

Glad I could help. Gamaliel 00:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

The Wallflowers[edit]

Concerning your editing of the Wallflowers page deleting reference to the USS Stennis. The Stennis is actually the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis Appearently they played for the crew —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Thank you for clearing that up. I couldn't find any Stennis under the list of battleships; this explains why. I've restored the now updated info to the article, and you of course are welcome to add any info of your own. Gamaliel 06:24, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Admin help requested[edit]

Please delete this page: User talk:Rex071404/Liberal Editors Cabal.

It's my page and I am changing my position regarding the deletion of it from oppose to support. My reasoning can be found here Rex071404 06:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Since it's your userspace, I'll just go ahead and delete it and close the deletion discussion. Gamaliel 06:51, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

What's in a name[edit]

The first Christians were a threat to the establishment of Israel. The Sanhedrin met to decide the fate of the leaders of the new religion. Some wanted to kill them. But the wise man Gamaliel stood up and said "refrain from these men, for if this work be of men, it will come to naught, but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it, lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5: 38, 39. We work in the hope and the confidence that this work is of God. In Corinthians, Paul states, I am Paul, a disciple of Gamaliel. Saul Alinsky made all of his organizers read the letters of Paul because he regarded his namesake to be one of the greatest organizers of all time. The Gamaliel Foundation mentors organizers. [14]

I found this at the Gamaliel Foundation web site. Are you "working together to create a more just and more democratic society" [15]? --Uncle Ed 19:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Nah. I'm all about the anarchy. Gamaliel 19:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Some time ago, in the context of dispute, I contended that one or more of Gamaliel's edits were tantamount to anti-Christian bigotry. At the time, he pointed to his user name as a form of "proof" against the specifics of my concerns - implying that his user name was evidence of non-bias, etc. And yet now, by pumping up "anarchy", it would seem that his explanation back then was intended for what? While I no longer suspect Gamaliel of bigotry, I am still flummoxed as to why he keeps a user name of a Christian exemplar. Rex071404 06:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I am not "pumping up" anything. It was obviously a joke, but you have always demonstrated a particular talent for missing the obvious. I am a Christian, even if I am not the sort of Christian you think I should be. Beyond that, the nature and details of my faith are none of your business and will remain that way. I am not going to debate with you on this matter. I would appreciate it if you did not use Wikipedia to publicly speculate on my faith or any other aspect of my personal life. We may have an adversarial relationship, but I have never used Wikipedia as a forum to speculate about your personal life, and I insist that you extend me the same courtesy. Gamaliel 06:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for putting my outstanding question which remained from our past disagreement to rest. I've always felt that your user name was a taunt. Now I am persuaded it's not. FYI: My speculation was about the rationale for your user name, not an inquiry about your personal life - please re-read it (shown above) and I think it will be clear. Rex071404 08:07, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

BGC/Monicasdude dispute[edit]

I'll follow your guidance on this, although I have doubts about the productivity of it unless there's serious involvement by editors outside the immediate set of those involved in the ongoing popular music style/content disputes. I'll be trying to discuss matters with some of the other editors involved in related disputes with this user tonight; if the 3RR foulup ends up with a block, I hope you'll unblock me so I can continue to work on this (and will avoid controversial article work for the duration, unless otherwise directed). Monicasdude 22:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Starting an RfC on me is pointless. I've only come into disputes with this infobox style with 3 editors, while Monicasdude has upset MANY more than I ever could. AND his RfC has gotten nowhere. And, as I will maintain, the album infobox template has never been deleted. Therefore, it is has not been declared invalid yet. Secondly, before pointing fingers and making matters worse, perhaps you would do well do look into Monicasdude's past and see how he has stalked my works and earned his own RfC. I am civil editor. Many who I have collaborated with will attest to that. Monicasdude isn't so lucky. BGC 23:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I have no interest in the past behavior of either one of you. My sole interest is stopping an edit war involving the template. My position is that articles should follow the guidelines and that you should build consensus to change the guidleines instead of edit warring. I feel that an RfC demonstrating community consensus to follow the guidelines would be a first step in stopping this edit war since nothing else seems to have worked. Gamaliel 23:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
OK then. I'm heading over to the albums talk page to plead my case. If you want a resolution, an RfC page on me will go nowhere since it will be based on personal animosity towards me, which Monicasdude has plenty (and has proven it time and time again). His own RfC has done nothing to stop Monicasdude's megalomanical ways, that's for sure. BGC 23:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
OK, I've stated my case. [16] BGC 00:04, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


"tlh-1"? tregoweth 00:40, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for your directions. I didn't know that procedure. I'm sorry if I did anything wrong. Tavilis 19:06, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

It's okay, no harm done. It's something easily fixed if you catch it right away. Gamaliel 19:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

No Original Research[edit]

Please got to Talk:John Kerry and read this edit in context there. Your comments there about this issue would be appreciated. Rex071404 01:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

More fun with Rex[edit]

"Fun with Lexis/Nexis: found another Sherwood controversy".

I note that you don't look for corroboration on Lexis/Nexis that Kerry pretended to be Irish for many years - to get the Boston ethnic Irish vote.

Rex071404 06:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, this is quite funny as my discovery of this new info was inadvertantly your fault. I was looking for a source for one of the random bits you keep chopping out of the Stolen Honor article, in this case Ted Kennedy's call for an investigation. I chanced upon a casual reference to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial controversy and decided to investigate further. So I must thank you for your accidental contribution to improving the coverage of Sherwood's checkered career! Gamaliel 06:16, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

That's nice to hear. Why don't you get some details on the Kerry/Irish masquerade while you are logged on to Lexis/Nexis next time? Rex071404 06:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

"Kerry" and "Irish" are pretty vague keywords to search for. Gamaliel 06:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps this Google search, will help get you started:

Rex071404 08:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

This seems to be nothing more than a couple mistakes in speeches not written by Kerry which were most likely not actually delivered by Kerry. A tempest in a teapot. Gamaliel 08:30, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Will you for once stop being so closed-minded? During the time that Kerry's political career was growing here (70's/80's), you could not win statewide if you did not win Boston (Boston/Cambridge/Hyde Park/South Boston) etc., which was then controlled by tribal Irish politicians. Billy Bulger was able to control Masachusetts state politics for many, many yearrs due to a safe Southie seat. Why was it safe? His Irish brogue and Irish street cred (and nefarious other reasons). There is simply NO WAY that Kerry would have advanced as he did, without Irish street cred. That is just a plain fact. You need to read more about things like the St. Patty's day parade/breakfast [17] to understand how deep and prevelant Irish tradition and tribalism has been in Massachusetts politics. If you understood the topic better, I am sure Kerry's heritage scam would resonate with you. For those of us in Massachusetts who do understand Boston Irish political tribalism and it's presence here, the facts about Kerry's heritage scam are important truths that others should know. Kerry got a leg up with the Kennedy connection (Irish), the false heritage (Irish) and local Boston pols (Irish). Read those google links please. Rex071404 08:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't pretend to be an expert on Boston politics, though, unlike Kerry apparently, I am Irish and I do have Irish relatives in Boston. Of all the many, many accusations you've leveled at Kerry, I actually find this particular one the most plausable. I find it entirely possible that Kerry actively or passively through inaction encouraged the misconception that he was Irish. (Ever see the film The Matchmaker? You probably don't like the star, but it is a charming little film about a political staffer sent out to dig up her boss's Irish roots to help him in his Mass. campaign.) However conceivable this scenario, however, I cannot and will not make the leap from conceivable conjecture to concluding that it actually happened without any solid evidence. That's not being "close-minded", that's being logical and sensible. Gamaliel 09:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps. But including the actual published accusations is perfectly valid. Let the readers decide. Indeed, far less credible accusations, with less available proof are repeated in the George W. Bush article. Rex071404

By the way, that "rude comment" [18] you deleted is a standard template that administrators use. If you think it is rude, I suggest you go to the template talk page and propose a less rude alternative. Gamaliel 09:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

It was rude because you were stalking my edits. Rex071404 09:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I regularly monitor new articles for copyright violations. Feel free to browse the deletion log for evidence of this. If you want to avoid similar "rudeness" in the future coupled with a block, then do not post copyrighted material to Wikipedia. Gamaliel 09:19, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, my bad. Rex071404 22:30, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Professor Syed Ali Akbar[edit]

Hi, I was in the process of looking at the links and wondering if this was a very elaborate hoax when you deleted the article. Quite possible to fake a jpg of a newspaper etc. It would actually be an interesting exercise to get someone written into the historical record (and No, I'm not going to try). But I was reverting vandalism to Athleague yesterday and was surprised how far it had propagated from wiki around the Web. Just ruminating! Dlyons493 Talk 13:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Use of rollback privileges[edit]

'Rollbacks should be used with caution and restraint. Reverting a good-faith edit may send the message that "I think your edit was no better than vandalism and doesn't deserve even the courtesy of an explanatory edit summary." It is a slap in the face to a good-faith editor; do not abuse it.' silsor 19:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

It is only a slap in the face to people who are determined to feign offense. I posted twice on the talk page on this matter, which is plenty of justification and explanation. I fail to see how explaining myself a third time would make any difference, and I don't see how quoting guidelines will get us any closer to a resolution. Gamaliel 19:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • RealPlane page has been updated since your AFD vote. Tr9ccc 03:20, 1 November 2005 (UTC)