User talk:GoldRingChip

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
   User Page        Talk Pages        Toolset        To do        sandbox        Sb2        Sb3        Sb4        Sb5        Sb6        ushr        House elections        Senate elections        House special elections        First Elected        Elected      
Leave a message HERE. I will post my replies here on THIS page.
If I left a message on
YOUR talk page, then please reply there.

President of the Senate[edit]

Article I, section 3, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution provides that the Senate shall elect a President pro tempore, who would serve as the presiding officer "in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the office of President of the United States." When the Vice President becomes Acting President pursuant to the 25th Amendment (whether because the President cedes power temporarily under Section 3, or because the VP and a majority of the Cabinet officers declare the President incapacitated under Section 4), the Vice President would be "exercising the office of President of the United States" and would not be able to preside over the Senate for the duration of his time acting as President. Are you suggesting that a VP that is acting as President of the U.S. would be able to break a tied vote in the Senate and then sign the bill into law? Such interpretation would give the person executing the office of the presidency simultaneous control over a co-equal branch of government, and would be just as anathema to the structure of the U.S. Constitution as would having the Speaker of the House in the line of succession and permitting him to act as President while still presiding over the House.

I would ask you to reconsider your edit removing from the list of Presidents of the Senate those Presidents pro tempore who were in office during periods in which the Vice President acted as President of the U.S. upon invocations of Section 3 of the 25th Amendment.

AuH2ORepublican (talk) 00:12, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

    • An interesting dilemma! And you're right to question my interpretation. I don't know the answer to whether a VP, acting as P under 25A, could simultaneously act as Senate President. But that would be WP:OR, and there's nothing out there saying it couldn't happen. If you find support for that supposition, then go ahead and make the changes. Until then, however, there's nothing saying that the PPT "becomes" Senate President during invocation of 25A.—GoldRingChip 12:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your response. I thought about it some more, did some more reading, and then discussed it with a constitutional law professor who has written on the subject of Acting Presidents; we concluded that "exercise the office of President of the United States" (which is what triggers the VP being ineligible to preside over the Senate as per Article I, section 3, clause 5 of the Constitution) is synonymous with "powers and duties [of the President being] discharged by the Vice President as Acting President" pursuant to Section 3 of the 25th Amendment. This means that when the VP discharges the powers and duties of the presidency as Acting President pursuant to the 25th Amendment, the President pro tem automatically would become President of the Senate because the VP would be "exercise[ing] the office of President of the United States." Given the similarity of the language in Article I, section 3, clause 3 to that in Section 3 (and Section 4, for that matter) of the 25th Amendment, I don't see how the text of Article I, section 3, clause 3 could be interpreted any other way; and even were the language ambiguous, the Constitution's structure would prevent an interpretation that would allow an Acting President simultaneously to preside over the Senate. So I'm going to revert your edits and add the PPTs as "Presidents of the Senate" during the periods in which the VP became Acting President due to invocations of Section 3 of the 25th Amendment. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 18:07, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Two questions:
      1. Wasn't that WP:OR?—GoldRingChip 13:15, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
      2. Is the PPT Acting as Senate President or actually IS Senate President?—GoldRingChip 13:21, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment[edit]

There is a discussion at Talk:List of United States congressional districts related to style of new district-level maps for the post-2013 United States congressional districts. Your input would be appreciated. Thank you. --7partparadigm talk 02:10, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Undoing all my work[edit]

We've discussed this before, so I don't understand why it's coming up again: Why do you keep undoing all my work? I have done all this work with the intent to move the congressional district articles in a new direction, where each piece of data is given its own cell in the table, and the formatting is made clearer. Yet you keep reverting it for no other reason than to "match all the other states". You are regressing improved formatting for the sake of matching articles that are not likely to be read by the same people. Rather than simply coming in and reverting my work, which I have spent hours doing, I would appreciate it if you raised your objections on one of the many relevant talk pages. Your actions have violated Wikipedia etiquette and have caused me a great deal of frustration. Gordon P. Hemsley 00:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Specifically, which articles?—GoldRingChip 19:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
    • I assume he's talking about edits like [1]. If one style of formatting makes more sense, it should stand on its own merits regardless of how people structured other articles. I can't imagine what the argument is for combining the cells. The whole point of a table is to structure data logically. "Like all the other articles" is not a very good reason to preserve awkward formatting, especially without a discussion. —Designate (talk) 20:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

United States House of Representatives elections in Illinois, 2004 listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

Information.svg

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect United States House of Representatives elections in Illinois, 2004. Since you had some involvement with the United States House of Representatives elections in Illinois, 2004 redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 04:15, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Request for assistance[edit]

Hi GoldRingChip, I need help finishing updating several pages related to the US congress and ensuring that Wikipedia has current district maps represented. There is not too much left to do, but I could use a hand doing it. Details are here. Thank you --7partparadigm talk 18:29, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Districts[edit]

Just my two cents: I do not think we should have articles on individual state Senate districts. They are invented from whole cloth every 10–15 years and have no cultural or historical value; they're just administrative conveniences to keep party members happy. Nobody writes about them or identifies with them other than the senators who happen to hold office at the moment. If we want to talk about the districts in general it could go in the state Senate article, but having hundreds of articles with nothing but a list of precincts and map is well outside Wikipedia's scope. —Designate (talk) 02:56, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Perhaps you're right. We do it for Congress, but not for the states. Do other states do it?—GoldRingChip 14:45, 6 August 2014 (UTC)