User talk:Graham87

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Thank you[edit]

Hi Graham, thank you very much for importing de:Wiktor Eckhaus! -- Crowsnest (talk) 14:24, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Alan Dufty edit - thank you[edit]

Hi Graham,

Just figured out how to reply on here and wanted to thank you for the edit you did some time ago on the Alan Dufty article. Alan is a friend of mine and he did not know or could not remember all the dates and competitions that you skillfully collected. He was impressed and is happy so that makes two of us. Thank you again and all the best. Analytical Historian. Analytical Historian (talk) 09:47, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Copyeditor Barnstar Hires.png The Copyeditor's Barnstar
Thanks for your copyediting work for the Signpost! Pine 21:04, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Links to online communities[edit]

Hi Graham, I know that some Page Managers have a problem with me putting links to a rare disease online community as an external link on a rare disease Wikipedia page. But so far it has been about 5% of all links I have added that express a problem. So your interpretation of the Wikipedia Policy is just your opinion. And since you have a lot more experience on Wikipedia, I respect your opinion and many contributions, but disagree here. When a family is diagnosed with a rare disease, the first thing they do is go to Google. A lot of times, the limited Wikipedia article on the disease appears as a top result. While reading through that article, I want to add a link to the communities to let people know there are other patients they can connect with. Many times that thought does not even cross their mind. They read medical information above their comprehension and get depressed and never find others. So that's why I add a link to the communities. If it gets me banned, I'm okay with that. Thanks for reading. Final note: I work for a charity, all of these community links I add do not make us any money or give information to 3rd parties. They are just for international rare disease patient conversations. Do you know how hard it is to find someone else to ask questions when you have a rare disease? Rob — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobP46 (talkcontribs) 08:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Onslow compared to Schubert[edit]

As you recommended, I compared George Onslow to Franz Schubert. Both are known by a shorter name than the birth name. In Schubert's case, there's a middle name, fine, I understand. In Onslow's case, there's a preceding name in straight brackets and a middle name without brackets. I don't recall any article starting with a straight bracket and find it irritating, also don't understand why one of the extra names is in such brackets but not the other. The article is under expansion, and I trust that there will be more of a lead eventually, explaining, right, Smerus? Then I will look again. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:14, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:. I agree the lead needs expanding. As regards the name, I presented it as it is in Grove - it implies, as I understand it, that the 'André' was never used. But if this is confusing, delete the square brackets by all means. Best, --Smerus (talk) 16:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I observe 1RR rather religiously ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:28, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@Smerus, Gerda Arendt: A better example would probably have been Paul McCartney. I've never encountered brackets being used for this purpose on Wikipedia either, but I have no strong opinion on whether they should be present. Graham87 00:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Now compare Gwyneth Jones and see why I think McCartney is "wrong": an honorifix prefix or suffix such as "Sir", "Lady", "Dr." is not part of the "name" as defined as an infobox parameter, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I don't feel too strongly about that either ... I prefer to leave that up to the editors of the article. Graham87 08:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Jones was improved, and I followed that example for John Eliot Gardiner. Problem is {{infobox musical artist}} not supporting "honorific prefix" yet, as {{infobox person}} does. (People are working on it.) I use "person" for all people, remembering this edit which made me smile in an unforgettable way. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:51, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Deleted link[edit]

Sorry for the trouble. Thanks for the info and fixing the link. I will endeavour to do the 'right thing' next time (and I'll read up on proper practice in the meantime). Isedev (talk) 15:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014[edit]

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Re: Your reversion[edit]

Hi.

I deeply and sincerely apologize for the inconvenience that I caused you. It was entirely my fault. I intended to revert to your revision, not over your revision. It has never happened before and I assure you, I will do my best to make sure it never ever happens again.

I hope you'll find the current state of affairs to your liking.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 17:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

key[edit]

Hello, this song is in F♯ major or D♯ minor ? Fort123 (talk) 21:49, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

FOXP1 page - edit 08SEP[edit]

Hi there,

I noticed that the FOXP1 page was edited a few weeks ago to remove a link to an external support group that I helped set up. This group, hosted by RareConnect, has been very successful at helping bring families together that are dealing with FOXP1 mutations. The link from Wikipedia has been instrumental in driving this, and I'd love to restore the link. I understand there's a policy about external links - can you help me understand how to revise the link to our group so that it conforms to the policy and can stay on the wikipedia page? For now, I'm just going to suggest an "undo" to the edit, but I recognize that this is not a real solution.

Thanks for your help Karl 01:29, 29 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karlitoes99 (talkcontribs)

RE: Dead reference removal[edit]

Thanks for informing me. I'll be fixing the dead links instead of removing them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon Jonathan (talkcontribs) 08:13, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

RE: Dead reference removal[edit]

No problem — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon Jonathan (talkcontribs) 14:43, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit Reversion[edit]

Hi Graham87. I saw that you made a reversion to vandalism [1], but the rollback went to a revision that also had vandalism. I went ahead and rolled everything back to a good revision for you :-) Cheers! ~Oshwah~ (talk) (contribs) 03:04, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for explaining, - always nice to meet you, Graham! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Hm. TitoDutta 08:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC)I mean I was notified to. --TitoDutta 08:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Ah, so that was why. I was a bit confused to see no mention of my username in the diff, not to mention a situation where I wasn't involved in anyway. No harm done. :) --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 10:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Yeah... That was my mistake. I used {{ }}'s instead of [[ ]]'s to address Graham87 in my message. Sorry about that! It was also good to meet you, Graham87. Cheers! ~Oshwah~ (talk) (contribs) 23:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Screenreaders and spaces in numbers[edit]

Your edit comment at Pascal (unit) that a space in 101325 "makes text more difficult to read for screen readers" quite jolted me, and I'm wondering whether the advice in WP:MOSNUM#Grouping of digits should be made stronger.
I've become accustomed to using spaces in numbers in engineering and scientific contexts and learnt that it is standard SI usage (as NPL put it, "A space should be left between groups of 3 digits on either the right or left hand side of the decimal place (15 739.012 53). In four digit numbers the space may be omitted. Commas should not be used").[2] WP:MOSNUM#Grouping of digits supports the use of spaces and also mentions that "Templates {{val}}, {{val/delimitnum}} and {{gaps}} may be useful in grouping digits." I'm now wondering if those templates also produce better results for screen readers than simply inserting ordinary spaces by hand. Is val's 101325 or gapnum's 101325 better than 101 325? If so, perhaps we should point that out in MOSNUM. NebY (talk) 10:54, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Aha, I thought I'd seen mention before. I'll pause to try to think of a suitable approach. I'm imagining something more direct, such as "Ordinary spaces give poor results with screen readers and at line ends, but non-breaking spaces and templates such as this and that give good results with screen-readers and on-screen." That's a bit long-winded, but I'm sure Talk:MOSNUM would be happy to gnaw it down. NebY (talk) 15:45, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Neat - I've chipped in on the talk page, more just to make the case that we need that note than to amend your text. NebY (talk) 08:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

October 2014[edit]

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A kitten for you![edit]

Young cats.jpg

hi

Bacones (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

ru.wiktionary and headings[edit]

I was asked if I could run CheckWiki on ru.wikitionary. Found something interesting. Every article starts with a level 1 heading and then jumps to a level 3 heading. Every level 1 heading is the language which the definition is for. There maybe multiple languages. An example, Go contains definitions from seven languages. First one is English, second one is Italian. Bgwhite (talk) 23:14, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: Yeah, that's ... not the best. Graham87 03:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Bounding Main revert[edit]

Your revert in this article has no comment. Although the edit by Dexterous B seems a little unnecessary to me, it doesn't appear (in my opinion) to be vandalism or anything that would justify such a summary revert. In the future when you revert a seemingly good-faith contribution, would you please put some words in the comment field to say why you think the reversion was necessary? Johnson487682 (talk) 16:09, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying your revert, but I am asking you to make a point (in future reverts) of putting the reason for the revert into the comment field. A reviewer like me, who is looking at only this one change you made, might think that you are trying to start an WP:EDITWAR. Would you please consider doing that in the future? Johnson487682 (talk) 16:43, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Need some advice about screen readers and bolded headers[edit]

Hi Graham. We need your input on pseudo headings . While bolding them with a semicolon has been shown to cause problems, does simply using the standard wiki markup for bolding, i.e. ''' cause the same problems? This has arisen out of current discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout#Headings. If possible, could you comment there? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
We haven't worked together much, but I saw someone on IRC describe you as "a general ray of sunshine", so you obviously deserve this. Thanks. EpochFail (talkcontribs) 16:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
@EpochFail: Awww, thanks very much! :-) Graham87 02:56, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Q Fever[edit]

Hi Graham,

The pathogen that causes Q fever was only discovered here in NZ within the last month. The publication I reference (a conference in 2015) will be the first time any publication refers to this discovery. No doubt there will be more publications to follow. Dave Davetrumm (talk) 08:13, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Message[edit]

Status rpt Blue Gene / Q 33.863/54.902/17.590/8.586 PoSt — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aznkirby001 (talkcontribs) 21:19, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Moving List of SpongeBob SquarePants characters to SpongeBob SquarePants character guide[edit]

Why did you move List of SpongeBob SquarePants characters to SpongeBob SquarePants character guide? Ollieinc (talk) 07:39, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

key[edit]

This song is in which key ? Fort123 (talk) 20:25, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Blocked user[edit]

Graham87,

I am writing this in regards to a user you blocked.

That was my former IP address before it was blocked. We had some guests over at our house and one of the guests somehow got onto our computer and vandalized a bunch of articles, including the Luther Jackson Middle School article. Said guest also wrote silly and threatening messages on some Users' talk pages. If you have had any experience with 6 year olds you will understand where I am coming from.

I am so sorry this happened.

Yours,

Johannon (talk) 21:11, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

My former IP address was just one of the ones you listed. But still, wow is right. Johannon (talk) 21:12, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Mess[edit]

Thanks for reverting to the right version, these multiple vandalisms are quite confusing - and I didn't noticed it first it was more than one. Sorry. (Filippo) Hafspajen (talk) 15:01, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

@Hafspajen: No worries; it's an easy mistake to make. Graham87 15:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Face-smile.svg Hafspajen (talk) 15:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Wyndham[edit]

Graham

Please apply reasonableness test before undoing distance from Perth to Wyndham. Your distance is not reasonable.

Lance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lancemerritt (talkcontribs) 00:18, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Unprotect[edit]

Can you remove protection from Gautama Buddha now? I think that this page has many issues, and hopefully some creative IP addresses can help us. Most of them don't use talk(page). Bladesmulti (talk) 13:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Template:Repplyto I don't feel comfortable doing that, partly because I have nothing to do with the original protection of the article (my name's only in the log because of a history import), and partly because I'm not inclined to unprotect prominent articles (I think they should be more protected, not less). Having said that, you could ask at requests for page protection. Graham87 14:18, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
On RequestForPageProtection, they usually ask from the involved admin, so I thought of just asking you first. Thanks for writing. Bladesmulti (talk) 14:38, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Halloween cheer![edit]

Lisa Martin[edit]

Hi. I have added a couple of refs to the page to confirm the ranking information. L1975p (talk) 10:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Halloween cheer![edit]

@K6ka: Thanks, dude! Graham87 03:05, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Deleted articles with freaky titles is up for deletion[edit]

See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Deleted articles with freaky titles (3rd nomination) if you want to comment. A. Parrot (talk) 04:54, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Halloween cheer![edit]

Sorry![edit]

Sorry about screwing up the list in the Signpost for Screenreading. I'll try to remember and check for that next time. Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden: That's alright; it's easy to mess it up. Graham87 14:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Speaking of which, do you need alt tags for the images? I've presumed the captions are sufficiently detailed, but if there's more I could do, I gladly would. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:16, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
No thanks; the captiohns are fine. Graham87 15:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Matthew Cowdrey[edit]

Hi Graham87. It seems you inadvertently blanked Matthew Cowdrey, so another editor reverted your edit. So whatever change you were trying to make, you'll need to make again. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 09:47, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

@DH85868993: Done, thanks for letting me know. That's one of the perils of doing most of my work in a text editor ... forgetting to hit the paste button in the Wikipedia edit window! Graham87 09:52, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Jan Cameron (coach)[edit]

Hey, Graham. I have restored the 10 October 2014 birth date for Jan Cameron (born Janice Murphy) and added a footnote for her Sports-Reference.com Olympic athlete profile. Sports-Reference.com is a generally reliable source for basic bio data for Olympic athletes, and uses IOC records for such data as names, birth dates, birth places, etc. However, it is possible that this is an error, but it is currently the only source in the article that provides a birth date for her. If you have something better, such as a recent bio which the subject obviously approved or in which she participated, I would be happy to defer to such a better source. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:18, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: OK, sounds good to me. Graham87 14:49, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Saw your recent changes: Cameron married a Kiwi (Kevin Cameron) and moved to NZ where she worked as a coach for a decade or more (supported by several of the footnoted sources). Also, I think the correct birth year is 1942, not 1947, per Sports Reference; this kinda sorta makes sense if she was a rival of fellow Aussie Dawn Fraser (born 1937). If Cameron were born in 1947, she would have been 10 years younger than Fraser, not 5. Looks like we both need to read all of the linked sources and double-check the existing text for other errors. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:57, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
@Dirtlawyer1: Hmmm! According to WikiBlame, the date of birth was listed as 19 October 1942 until this edit, which was the first one to mention her married names, before my expansion of the article. Supporting the 1947 birthdate, the profile of her from Rosebank College (PDF) says she was in the class of 1962, and since it's a high school, a 1942 birthdate would not make sense there (many people lef school at the age of 15 in Australia in those days). Re: the emigrants cat, I thought that since she once again had a job in Australia, she wouldn't be classified as an emigrant anymore ... but I could be wrong. Graham87 15:19, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Graham87: I'm not going to mess with the birth date again until I see something definitive in another couple of sources. I note that her two silvers from the '66 Commonwealth Games are not included in the infobox medals table -- which reminds me that there are several Empire/Commonwealth Games online references that I can check for her birth date (or at least her age in 1966). This may take some homework, but we'll get it sorted. When I have more time this evening (U.S. eastern time), I will run some newspaper searches to see if we can get some confirming ages at the time of the '64 Olympics and the '66 Commonwealth Games. As for the emigrant/immigrant category, I think that's an editorial judgment call and I'm content to leave that decision you. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:58, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Graham87: That looks like a solid start for the birth year, but the '47 birth year may call into question the birth date, which is sourced to a different reference with the '42 birth date. Perhaps we should just list her birth year until we have several corroborating sources for the exact date. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:32, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Dirtlawyer1: That's a good idea, for now. I'm in contact with a couple of people who might e able to help me further ... I'll let you know ifaything eventuates. Graham87 01:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Dirtlawyer1: I've just received an email from Jan confirming that her birthdate is indeed 20 February 1947. Unfortunately that's not a reliable source for Wikipedia's purposes ... Graham87 09:15, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Well, that's helpful: at least we know what we're looking for. For American subjects, I use Google News Archive and newspapers.com -- is there a similar online news archive for Australian newspapers? Also, can you get access to the following books: (1) Andrews, Malcolm (2000). Australia at the Olympic Games. Sydney, New South Wales: ABC Books. ISBN 0-7333-0884-8; (2) Howell, Max (1986). Aussie Gold. Albion, Queensland: Brooks Waterloo. ISBN 0-86440-680-0; (3) Gordon, Harry (1994). Australia and the Olympic Games. St Lucia, Queensland: University of Queensland. ISBN 0-7022-2627-0? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 09:34, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Dirtlawyer1: Google News Archive Search contains some Australian newspapers. The National Library of Australia's Trove is the best search engine for library documents we have; for newspapers from about 2000 or so, there's the Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre, which I exhaustively searched back in 2012, but couldn't find anything then. Unfortunately it's not freely available, but I have access to it. I'm totally blind so I can't easily deal with print sources. Graham87 10:28, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I spent a little time following the links in Trove last night and found the Australian Olympic Committee's online records. While the athlete profile information for older records is sparse, the AOC lists Murphy-Cameron's birth date as 19 October 1942, and the AOC is quite likely the original source of the information that now appears in Sports-Reference.com (via the IOC). Assuming Cameron has no reason to misrepresent her birth date, it looks like we're going to have to find a magazine or newspaper article that states her correct birth date; everything sourced to the AOC or IOC is likely to be wrong. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:40, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Yergh, not easy! For what it's worth, she expressed puzzlement to me about why her birthdate was listed incorrectly in Wikipedia and in sports-reference.com. I've informed her that one way to clear this problem up on the Wikipedia end (as weird as it might sound) would be for her to write something that's verifiably by her with her correct birthdate on it, and preferably publish it somewhere official (e.g. Swimming Australia, the APC). Graham87 14:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 8[edit]

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Chris Gardner edit[edit]

Hi Graham, thanks for the info on WikiBlame and vandalism. I thought the wrong date was just a random error, and didn't suspect that people purposely edit articles to falsify dates.

Chriskalexander (talk) 19:59, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

who do you think you are[edit]

-user removed and exchanged high quality external reference for simple violin makers page -no third party review of external reference -blocked article "for spamming" -external review requested by competent person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.225.204.4 (talk) 04:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Thanks for the warm welcome; the reference pages have been very helpful. Thanks as well for fixing that double quotation since I couldn't figure it out. Mermelade (talk) 04:55, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

hello[edit]

i am new on this and i want to post my product as sublimation but it was deleted can you pelase explain to me why did you delet it can you help me fix it ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sublimation1998 (talkcontribs) 00:54, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

This product is snake oil by frauds who just make things up as they go, like sublimating liquid. It's also a very dangerous product because they're obviously not competent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vacvape (talkcontribs) 14:10, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

NEVER AGAIN YOU WILL GET BIG DONATION FROM ME[edit]

every time a post gets deleted or somthing is by a bot or a so called inteligent wonna be but we know that all you no life indian no life programmers have nothing else to do besides showing off to a nother so called inteligent member who found first a error or mistake and deleted the post YOU ARE A STUPID FUCcccccKING MORON AND TELL YOU STAFF NO MORE DONATION NEVER AGAIN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.82.28 (talk) 18:57, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

He Graham, i nominate this as todays whimsy ! It put a smile on my face :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:53, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Hehehehehe, indeed! Graham87 01:25, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Hmm[edit]

makes no sense at all indeed ? are you indian perhaps or jewish ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.82.28 (talk) 15:44, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

It's none of your business what I am, but you're now blocked. Graham87 00:45, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Requesting Deleted Patent Nonsense[edit]

Hello Graham,

I would very much like a copy of the deleted patent nonsense/spam from the following link, hopefully including the log info as per edits and dates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_BioGasification

It's my first account here so I'm just feeling my way around but I understand as of this moment that if you userfy the page, I will have access to my own temporary ghost copy unavailable publicly? If so that's great, just let me know how long it's available for.

Regards Vacvape (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Again[edit]

Am I supposed to respond on my talk page or yours? I responded on mine, and don't know if you get that.

"If it's not a copyright violation, libel, or personal information, and has not been deleted as a suspected biographies of living persons violation, I will userfy the article for you."

According to that criteria, you will userfy the article for me. That is what I'm waiting for. It doesn't seem to specify any such thing as "if I like your reasons because it was made in bad faith". A definitive response would be appreciated. If you need further explanation, see my talk page. Sent to my email would be just perfect. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vacvape (talkcontribs) 17:29, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! getting familiar with Wikipedia[edit]

Hi Graham87,

I've just started learning to contribute at Wikipedia. I'm extremely sorry for mistakes I made. I'm a Graphic Designer by profession. I love creating educational and informative graphics. Hoping to contribute Wiki with these.

Regards, EpicBharat — Preceding unsigned comment added by EpicBharat (talkcontribs) 15:08, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I've replace my image uploads[edit]

Hi Graham87,

You are an inspiration. I'am writing to inform you that my previous uploads were with watermark and from my own website (signed with all rights reserved - I also changed it to CC license). As I come to know that its violation, I replaced those with new versions of same without watermark or any web address on it. I'm original and sole designer of these graphics. What should I do? Someone has already put an deletion request on previous ones. Is there way to delete those uploads or I don't need to? I've removed old image links from respective pages.

Regards EpicBharat (talk) 15:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Import-ant![edit]

Trophy.png The Emperor of Import
You were, are and would remain the Emperor of Import. The import tool seems to have been made purely for you. Thank you for making use of the tool to contribute magnificently to Wikipedia, to such an extent that more than 95% of usage of the tool since it was made, is credited to you! Wifione Message 18:08, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Wifione: Thanks very much! Graham87 01:13, 27 November 2014 (UTC)