User talk:Grayfell

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Hello! Please leave new messages at the bottom of the article. Don't forget to sign your posts by typing for tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. Thanks. Grayfell (talk)



Hello, Grayfell, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi there,

On MonaVie the Huffington post "source" at citation 13:

isn't actually Huffington Post. It's a redirect to a blog that has no editorial oversight whatsoever. The huffpo snippet is just a title scraper to the huffpo food blog. Please remove this citation. The accompanying scheme text is supported by the Forbes blogpost.

You'll see a similar situation with newsweek at cite 10. That is a deadlink. How about leave the Forbes blog piece (cite 12) to support the scheme angle.

Cite 10 and 13 should go.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:56, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Good points. See Talk:MonaVie. Thanks Grayfell (talk) 01:18, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

abilene paradox[edit]

Dear Grayfell, I have requested that a key external link be whitelisted. I posted the request on Jan. 11 and, as of date, nobody has commented on the request. Could you please assist in moving the request forward by offering your viewpoint? Thank you. IjonTichy (talk) 15:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... It looks like the ball is rolling now. I think that's the first time I've seen that page (Abilene paradox), although I vaguely recall having heard the term before. I don't have a strong opinion on the link yet, so I'll keep an eye on it and chime in if I have anything to contribute. Grayfell (talk) 22:05, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Mata Amritanandamayi[edit]

I have provided references along with all the edits. Mata Amritanandamayi is not devi. Devi means goddess. A living person cannot be devi, unless it is a name given So, correct that part. Also, the wiki article says, Satnam Singh attacked security guards, which is not true. I have added the youtube link of the incident, but you removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bincyphil (talkcontribs) 04:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Although I did revert an edit of yours, I didn't remove a Youtube link, that was someone else. The edit you added was a violation of WP:BLP, which is a very serious problem. Please discuss future edits on the article's talk page: Talk:Mata Amritanandamayi. Thank you. Grayfell (talk) 06:11, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the multiple BLP violations going on on the Mata Amritanandamayi page. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this Wiki page from being a platform for defamation? (talk) 23:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I was out of town for a couple of days, sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Wikipedia works on a WP:CONSENSUS model, which can be tedious, but is a very powerful process. It looks like an ongoing discussion is happening at the talk page (Talk:Mata Amritanandamayi). As long as that is still going on, continued WP:CIVIL discussion is probably the best way to go forward. You might also take a look at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive195#Mata Amritanandamayi, which was just posted. Keep an eye on that, and chime in if you think you have something to contribute there. If things become a serious crisis, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is one place to consider, but only as a last resort. Most administrators are sympathetic to how difficult it can be to navigate Wikipedia's maze of sites and policies, but there's very little patience for 'forum shopping'. I hope that's helpful. Grayfell (talk) 22:01, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Street Art[edit]

Hi, backjumps should be added to the article its verry important in the history of street art in Berlin. Thank youAgilemonkey (talk) 11:23, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, Street art is a big article that covers a lot of places and times. The NY Times article only mentions a Backjump festival once, from 2007, and doesn't mention it as being the most significant show in Europe or anything of the sort. The other source is just a local listing, right? It does look like it's somewhat significant, but you need to find better sources. Grayfell (talk) 22:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


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Flyer22 (talk) 17:10, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Slab City links[edit]

Hi Grayfell, I recently added a link to a music video about Salvation Mountain and Slab City to their respective Wikipedia pages. The link was to a song that was written about the Salvation Mountain and Slab City with a loving dedication to Leonard Knight. Leonard and others at Slab City, Salvation Mountain and East Jesus all loved Kylie Campion, the artist who wrote the song. Leonard asked her to help spread the word. The song and the video are going to be used in an upcoming documentary about Leonard and Salvation Mountain by Picture Lock Studios. I was wondering why you removed it? Did I do something wrong? Can we get it back up there? Please let me know. Thanks Camptunes (talk) 18:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Camptunes. Sorry, but there are several reasons I don't think the video belongs.
It kinda sounds to me like you're trying to use Wikipedia as a platform to promote a music video. No matter how good your intentions, Wikipedia isn't a platform for promotion or soapboxing. It's also not a repository of external links, although it unfortunately tends to get used that way sometimes. You might want to read Wikipedia's policies on external links, but the gist of it is that external links sections should be kept small and tightly focused on the topic.
Without reliable sources it's hard to know how significant the video is to an understanding of Slab City or Salvation Mountain. Campion may be beloved by Salvation Mountain, but that info needs to be WP:VERIFIABLE, and it needs to be given due WP:WEIGHT. Think of it this way: Slab City and Leonard Knight have influenced many people. We can't begin to list all of them. We need a little bit of context explaining why it's important, and we need that to be backed up by sources, otherwise it just looks like advertising.
Hopefully I've explained where I'm coming from, if you have any additional questions, I'll be happy to try and answer. Talk:Slab City and Talk:Salvation Mountain are also good places to start a discussion. Grayfell (talk) 23:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Reed Cowan[edit]

Hey, just giving you a head's up about what I'm doing with the article. I'm looking to see if there are any new sources out there for him. I've found a review for one of his documentaries and if I can find more, then that could help establish notability. I have a feeling that I might run this through a second AfD rather than replace the speedy tag, but in any case I wanted to let you know what's going on. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 09:56, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Hmm... looks like his documentaries have received enough coverage to where I'd say that he could pass notability guidelines. If you want you can still take it to AfD, but I think that he'd pass this time around. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 09:59, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I have no strong opinion one way or the other, I just noticed that there was some fishy editing going on after looking into an IP vandal. The article looks much, much better now. Grayfell (talk) 00:58, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Chuck's Challenge 3D[edit]

Factually Chuck's Challenge 3D is list on Desura however it has now been changed to 'Invite Only' which mean you can no longer download it from Desura unless you get special permission from the Developer. It is now available on Steam instead. Hence why I have updated where you can get it from Allack (talk) 09:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm very confused about your latest change for two reasons. 1) You say that Wikipedia isn't a directory of sales sites but now you want to list all the places where the game has been sold and is currently on sale. 2) Greenlight is not a store it is a place where the Steam Community votes on which games they want on the Steam store. Therefore removing the date it was voted on and calling it a store is incorrect. Allack (talk) 23:05, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I guess I wasn't very clear. We shouldn't pick-and-choose which sites we include. If a site was worth mentioning in the past, why is it no-longer worth mentioning now? While I don't think we should bother with listing all of these sites, I'm not willing to remove them just yet. As I said (on your talk), if secondary sources can be found we can re-assess this. Greenlight isn't a store, but it is a process by which a game reaches a store. The date it was voted on for Greenlight seems very trivial, and a tad promotional, and I'm not sure why it matters. Chip's Challenge already gives too much WP:WEIGHT to a different game that happens to be by the same author. I was attempting to trim it down a bit. I intend to trim it down further, but I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond, and hopefully find some secondary sources. Grayfell (talk) 23:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

How about these "Despite having the same core design philosophy as Chip’s Challenge the game does feel like a breath of fresh air." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allack (talkcontribs) 00:05, 8 March 2014 (UTC)Allack (talk) 00:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Steam Greenlight date might not be as important but that people voted for it and it got though is important as only a limited number get though. Allack (talk) 00:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

It currently mentions that the game got to Steam via Greenlight. I'll expand that to make it clearer, but I think there are more pressing problems. I think you posted the wrong link, since it doesn't include the quote about Chip's Challenge. The gamerattitude review is by a guy who has only reviewed one game. The site is still very small, has no contact information to speak of, and the only reference to Chip's Challenge is in a search-tag. Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Reference library is a page specifically designed for this type of situation. Sorry, if I'd remembered it, I would've mentioned it sooner. Be wary of press-releases hosted by news sites, which are a common stumbling block. They aren't reliable as secondary sources. Grayfell (talk) 00:37, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry here the right link for the first post
OK how about Rock, Paper, Shotgun here which is a much bigger site When I was at school, before I discovered Doom deathmatch, I used to spend my evenings trying to beat every fiendish level of Chip’s Challenge. Wikipedia informs me that there were 149 levels in the version that I owned and I’m not convinced I saw more than a hundred. Tile-based, ice-sliding, crate-pushing, switch-hitting puzzlers aren’t my favourite forms of entertainment, but it’s more than nostalgia that has kept spiritual sequel Chuck’s Challenge on my radar. Developed by Chip’s creator Chuck Sommerville, it’s a puzzle game and creation tool all in one and it’s out now.
Or the actual Steam Product page From the design veteran behind the classic game Chip's Challenge, comes Chuck’s Challenge 3D, a fiendishly addictive puzzler that’s packed with features that will tease the brain and challenge the fingers.
Or US Gamer Chip's Challenge originated on the Lynx but proved popular enough to spawn ports to numerous platforms, ranging from the Commodore 64 to DOS- and Windows-based PCs. Chuck's Challenge 3D is actually the third follow-up to the original game -- Chip's Challenge 2 never saw public release due to a legal dispute between Sommerville and the original copyright holder, and the original Chuck's Challenge was an iOS exclusive that came out back in 2012 from Sommerville's new company Niffler. Chuck's Challenge 3D is a reimagining of the latter, this time for Windows, OSX and Linux plus Android mobile devices. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allack (talkcontribs) 09:28, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Those are all pretty good (except the Steam Store one, which is WP:PRIMARY, not secondary). I have reigned in a lot of material that seemed pretty superfluous to me. The Desura thing is one of them, but I also removed a lot of info about being Kickstarted and Greenlit, as well. Upon consideration, it just seemed too trivial. As you may have noticed, none of the secondary sources actually talk about that stuff. If the Chuck's Challenge games get their own page someday, then maybe. My intention was to keep the article at an appropriate WP:WEIGHT, which is pretty light, since the games are fairly new, fairly small, and are being discussed in an article about a different game. At this point it's become clear that the place to discuss any further edits is at Talk:Chip's Challenge -not here. Grayfell (talk) 10:23, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Mail from bsalyers re: SFUAD page[edit]

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Bsalyers (talk) 23:00, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 12[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited List of Beta Theta Pi chapters, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Bethany College and Westminster College (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Daniel Amen[edit]

I reverted your edit to Daniel Amen. I think the article make it pretty clear and there is additional support on the talk page. Also treatments, diagnostic techniques etc are biomedical information if not supported by MEDRS (and Amen's work isn't) they must be qualified on WP. Bring suggestions to talk. Best. - - MrBill3 (talk) 09:00, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

After looking over it some more, you were right to revert me. The wording is so unusual, I reflexively assumed it was something fishy, but he's really that odd and legitimately controversial.
Thanks for your openmindedness and perusal of the article. To be frank, I put much of that wording in hastily to bring the article in compliance with MEDRS. If you have suggestions for better wording or phrasing, by all means edit. The article may have tipped... - - MrBill3 (talk) 09:30, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Nah, it looks fine to me. I might tinker with some of the wording after a good night's sleep. Grayfell (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Excellent work on Narconon[edit]

Brownie transparent.png Greetings, Grayfell! That was an excellent update to Narconon, it reads one whole hell of a lot better now. Damotclese (talk) 18:18, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Gosh, thanks! Grayfell (talk) 09:09, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Beta Theta Pi[edit]

Can you please explain how my changes to Beta Theta Pi are making the page into an advertisement? I work for Beta Theta Pi's headquarters, and the changes I have tried to make are to clarify the points and facts that are already there. Is it because I am not citing them correctly? If so, I will do so going forward. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the trouble, still pretty new to this. kg252500(talk)

Replied here. Future discussion should be held at user's talk page, or at Talk:Beta Theta Pi. Grayfell (talk) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


Where are you getting your information on Ambit? Hard for me to believe that if Ambit's customers weren't happy in New York, they would have never received the award from JD Power and Associates in 2013 for customer satisfaction. (talk) 01:19, 13 April 2014 (UTC) Dan Byers

ANI notice[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Yank Barry. Thank you. -- Atama 16:12, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

New Age[edit]

Hello, I know very well the philosophical metaphysics, but I know nothing about the New Age, so I want you to explain to me this “metaphysics is a significant historical part of the New Age movement”.--Alexis1102 (talk) 17:56, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, my revert was based on Wikipedia policy more than philosophy. I think the article already explains the connection, and, superficially, the sources seem to agree. I'm not trying to draw a specific connection between the two, and I agree the relationship is debatable to say the least. However, since the term 'metaphysics' (and variations) is prominently used several times in the article, removing the categorization without changing the article seems premature. The term is also used in many of the article's sources, as well. Sometimes it's used to mean 'non-physical', but others seem like they are referring to the philosophical meaning. Since this is a specific content issue, it might be a good idea to continue this discussion at the article's talk page Talk:New Age. I'll just add that reviewing Wikipedia:Categorization might be useful, if you haven't already. Grayfell (talk) 21:55, 19 April 2014 (UTC)