User talk:Grutness

Owing to the unsubstantiated claims of both plagiarism and lying levelled at me by one Wikipedian editor, I have decided to terminate my editing activity. It has been fun while it lasted, but there's always one fuckwit willing to queer the pitch. Have fun everyone. Grutness...wha? 05:23, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• That's a great pity, you have been a great editor. I have encountered many fuckwits queering the pitch, so I understand your frustration and anger and hope that it will soon subside and you will feel able to return. Giacomo Returned 07:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

And who is supposed to give us grief over stubs and categories when you are gone? Agathoclea (talk) 10:23, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

"Owing to the unsubstantiated claims of both plagiarism and lying levelled at me by one Wikipedian editor, " One editor. Exactly one editor. WHo gives a shit what he says, practically everybody here thinks you are a fantastic asset to the project. And how does a couple of NZ DB articles with similar wording measure up against everyone of your contributions to wikipedia anyway?. You did very important work stub building in the early days and have been a vital part of the stub sorting project for yonks. Please return asap.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:13, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Featured article review for Francis Petre

I have nominated Francis Petre for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. You are receiving this notice because you were identified as one of three editors with the most edits to the article. Brad (talk) 08:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• .....and as I said above. Giacomo Returned 10:38, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

WTF?!

Nooooo! Don't leave us...please... I came over to respond to your trout (thanks very much), and THIS is the news? *wailing and gnashing of teeth*.

Don't let the fuckwits win, G.

Pegship (talk) 19:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Seconded, it's been a long time since we've interacted but this is bad news. I don't like talking like this but after reviewing a couple talk pages there appears to be several fuckwits involved here. I wish that were a blockable offense. RxS (talk) 00:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks folks - I'll be sitting out of WP for a while at least, though (probably not permanently). Too angry at the moment - I wouldn't be able to edit properly or admin fairly. Grutness...wha? 00:16, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Very sorry to see you go, if you are. I'd give it a while & see how you feel. All the best, Johnbod (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Damn. I turn my back for a few days and this is what happens?

Don't go. Please. You do amazing work and it's seriously disgusting that anyone's questioning that. Sitting out is one thing - we all need to step back from time to time. But I do hope that you return. There is no excuse, none at all, for an editor of your caliber to be hounded away like this.

Seriously...damn. That's all I can say. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:00, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I turn my back for a bit longer than a few days... and then this... OMG, Grutness, I too want to voice my support of you and your work on wikipedia. Your writing is valued. Your stub sorting is valued. I rally with the rest of the community here to say please return when you're ready. There are a lot of wikipedia pages awaiting your words. Cheers friend. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Media developed in New Zealand

Category:Media developed in New Zealand, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 18:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

ANI notice

Hi Grutness. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you are involved. Best regards. --Epipelagic (talk) 11:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but I don't think that'll help at all. Grutness...wha? 14:25, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Pity :-( You are missed - Agathoclea (talk) 14:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Anyway Grutness, let this be the record that any rational reader with a functioning empathic system will find clears you of the more egregious aspects of the assaults on you. You have an absolute right if you want to leave. But if you acted a little in haste and have regrets, then I very much hope you reconsider. By walking away you are further weakening an already seriously bleeding Wikipedia, diminishing what remains of hope. No editor has suggested you have lost any standing here because of Rjanag's assaults, apart from the two motley "supporters" on his talk page. I must admit I have little clue about where the real power levers are in the admin system. Probably dispersed and somewhat random. All that is clear is that is seriously dysfunction from the perceptive of content editors, and does not support natural justice. The system seems past recovery, so perhaps it is right to leave. I'm asking myself the same question. Annoying, because I didn't get quarter way through the stuff I wanted to do here. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you - but at the moment I've got a lot of things happening in real life, and this has soured my taste for things Wikipedian. I may return at some point, but certainly not for a while. As to whether I've lost standing here because of Rjanag's comments, tat's not really the issue. I am a professional writer and editor. Any accusations of plagiarism, even on a website like Wikipedia, threaten my standing in the writing community in general. As such, for now at least, it's better if I stay away from WP. If I felt there was some chance that RJanag would apologise, I'd keep fighting, but (s)he seems in denial that there was anything wrong in his/her accusations. Grutness...wha? 03:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

You have not lost standing. If anyone has lost standing, it has been RJanag. I hope you reconsider; I understand if you don't, but I hope you do. Lord knows I've been close enough to leaving over crap like this myself on more than one occasion. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:57, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Tom Skinner

Materialscientist (talk) 20:04, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

To quote Lachie junior in "Hamish Macbeth": "What does it mean, this word 'ironic'?" Grutness...wha? 22:50, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

A comment from Grutness

Okay folks. Thanks for all your kind comments - it appears, looking at Talk:Tom Skinner as if the original situation has moved on from when I left. I'm still not prepared to return at the time being. This has left a nasty taste, and in any case, major writing and musical projects in real life (tm) are giving me little time for editing. To those who have said "you should have stayed and fought it out", remember that last time I got into a major conflict at Wikipedia, my health collapsed. I am not willing to have that happen again. Chances are, though, that when this blows over sufficiently, I will return to WP to some extent or another. Thanks again, Grutness...wha? 22:50, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost interview

Hi Grutness, I am quite aware, and very sorry to learn of your recent situation. I wanted to ensure that full courtesy s extended to you in terms of this invitation, and despite the current situation, I do hope that you will participate given your enormous contributions to WP:NZ. I sincerely hope that the storm will pass and all will be back to normal soon. Cheers. --SMasters (talk) 01:26, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll have a think about ti. Probably yes... depends on my workload over the next couple of days. Grutness...wha? 04:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks for considering. --SMasters (talk) 09:40, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Or your favorite beverage of choice. llywrch (talk) 03:33, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks :) Make mine a cider! Grutness...wha? 04:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

If my first and only impression of you is at all correct, you are likely a great asset here, and im sorry you feel you have to go. your honesty at the south island flag article on who you are in the real world was refreshing. I havent read all the other stuff linked above, but I hope i never have to defend my honor here or contemplate leaving for such reasons. (i was looking up the graphic designer who shares your name, and found myself here). PS i tried to design a flag myself, based on the rainbow flag (as originally propose by thomas paine to stand for international sea vessels) (and accidentally borrowing from the Flag of the Earth), and its really quite hard to get right.(mercurywoodrose)76.234.120.39 (talk) 01:44, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for that - the more time goes on, the more I think I will come back to Wikipedia at some point, but at the moment the time away from it's probably doing me some good, both in terms of distancing myself from what happened and also giving myself more time to do other things. Good luck with the flag - flags are harder things to get right than a lot of people think - they may look good on paper, but have to be able to look good flying as well, so it's not a pure and simple matter of graphic design. And you're not the first person to have got me and my namesake confused on the web (or my other namesake, who writes books on the legals system, for that matter!) Grutness...wha? 06:32, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

the unholy mess I might have created.

I tried to implement this STfD in your absence and am unsure sofar everything has been done right. a pointer would be appreciated. Agathoclea (talk) 07:28, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Looks pretty much right, though you've missed one (Category:North America rail stubs hasn't been moved yet). Keep an eye on the old category names - they'll need to be deleted once they're empty (which shouldn't be long, depending on server backlog). Other than that, it looks pretty good :) Grutness...wha? 10:45, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

1. Category:Asia rail stubs
2. Category:Europe rail stubs
3. {{Melbourne-rail-stub}}
4. {{Sydney-rail-stub}}
5. Category:Oceania rail stubs
6. Category:North America rail stubs

are all the ones that cause me bother - none has actually been nominated but should all be matched. Agathoclea (talk) 11:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Nominate them, saying they got missed out - they'd probably count as speediable since all the others have gone. Either that or you could just surreptitiously change them anyway - since all the others have changed I doubt there'd be any fuss about it :) Grutness...wha? 23:25, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Peter Jones (New Zealand rugby union)

The article Peter Jones (New Zealand rugby union) has been proposed for deletion because, under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 14:49, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

• "Referencing for beginners", huh? Well, thank you for that, I must remember to read it sometime. It only took about ten seconds to find a screed of references, far ;less tiome than to create a prod. I'd also be fascinated to know how someone who died nearly twenty years ago counts as a "living person". Grutness...wha? 00:23, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh, the joy of editing with iPhones; I probably missed something. Had it given me the option, I wouldn't have left a templated message, but with BLPPROD it forces you to. As to the other part... we're supposed to assume someone less than 115 is alive unless said otherwise. Shit happens. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:32, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough - thought it was probably an automated task rather than a personal call :) Grutness...wha? 00:37, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I've been meaning to bug the Twinkle people about that; if you go to BLPPROD something, the checkbox that allows you to choose whether or not you want to notify the creator (via template) can't be unchecked. It's extremely annoying. By the way, I'm glad you decided to stick around. This place is both fascinating and maddening at the same time. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Only here occasionally now, keeping my hand in. Doubt I'll ever go back to being as full-on as I used to be. But thanks :) Grutness...wha? 03:43, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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LOL

Hi Grutness, good to see some activity at your end. Just stopping by to let you know that I had a good laugh about one of your edit summaries ("Sadly, not true"). These are sad times alright. Schwede66 07:06, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

I LOLed too.-gadfium 07:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Just passing through - glad it caused a giggle :) Grutness...wha? 09:18, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Cook Bay (Antarctica)

Hi there. A few months you created Cook Bay (Antarctica), and altered Cook Ice Shelf to reference it. The rest of the Cook Ice Shelf article (and any sources I can find) indicate that Cook Bay is a former name of Cook Ice Shelf. If you have any references to indicate that the former name has been brought back in to use as an official name that would be great, otherwise I intend to revert the change to Cook Ice Shelf, and convert Cook Bay (Antarctica) to a redirect. Or should I just BEBOLD? ;-) Jan1naD ^{(talk • contrib)} 13:44, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

the maps I was using in that Antarctic work showed both assd separate features, but the two names do both now seem to be used interchangeable, so go for it. Grutness...wha? 02:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Jan1naD ^{(talk • contrib)} 21:36, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Bienvenue, French Guiana

The article Bienvenue, French Guiana has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The article does not detail why this location is notable.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Zero ^Talk_Contribs 16:59, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability (geography) might help. Schwede66 18:14, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah. I never read that section of NOTE. Thanks for the heads up. :) Zero ^Talk_Contribs 01:43, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cleanup-weighted

Template:Cleanup-weighted has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 01:51, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Crime victims by nationality

Please note that the subcategories of Category:Crime victims by nationality are up for renaming again. Given that you participated in the previous discussion, you may be interested in participating in this on, too. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:07, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

...wha? Indeed!

Merry Christmas

and

A Happy New Year

Please Click!

_{I am 220 of ^Borg. I partake in this human seasonal celebratory event in order to more successfully infiltrate the Wikipedia collective, facilitating the addition of it's technological distinctiveness to our own.}

_{Resistance is futile! ... Oh, and Merry Christmas. 13:34, 26 December 2011 (UTC)}

Metro Walk

Hi, you have edited Metro Walk and this article is currently under a contentious debate on a possible merger or deletion, your opinion on the matter and content might be useful in resolving the issues and reaching consensus, perhaps you would then like to do so at your convenience. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luciferwildcat (talk • contribs) 00:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh I understand completely, but to be fair I pinged all editors to avoid an appearance of impropriety as that could be viewed as canvassing boosters to get an unfairly biased opinion from some to the exclusion of others. In any case, if you can help improve things in any way I would appreciate it.LuciferWildCat (talk) 01:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

my proposal

Your Grutness, I'd be honoured if you'd look at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#All_articles_should_have_a_"References"_section_and_tagNankai (talk) 04:44, 8 January 2012 (UTC) (Peter)

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Liopeltis

Hi Grutness,
I am a french contributor on wikipedia and I am working of the Liopeltis article. On the english version we can read that these species can be found on India. It is real but we can found it also on Southeast Asia, Indonesia and Philippines. I am referring of Liopeltis on Reptile Database. I prefer you make correction by yourself because my english is... not perfet (!). Thanks a lot. Have a nice day. 2.8.197.227 (talk) 17:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC) (Givet

Done :) Grutness...wha? 00:34, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Astrolabe Island

A tag has been placed on Category:Astrolabe Island requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for four days or more and it is not presently under discussion at Categories for discussion, or at disambiguation categories.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Engelhardt (talk) 21:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Grutness, sorry I didn't put this notice here sooner. After I merged all the stub articles in this category into the main article for Astrolabe Island, I put this tag on the category. I know you've done a lot of work in this area, and I didn't mean to step on your toes in any way -- it just seemed to me that putting it all in one article provides more interesting content and context. I left redirects at all the old stubs, as well, just to leave some tracks. Hope you are well. Best, Engelhardt (talk) 21:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Replied on User:Engelhardt's talk page. Grutness...wha?

WP Stub Sorting in the Signpost

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Stub Sorting for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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Sigh - successfully dabbed about 20 links in that edit - I knew I'd miss one. Grutness...wha? 11:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:LakeGunnBush.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:LakeGunnBush.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file agreed to license it under the given license.

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Well, let's see. The description page clearly stated that I took the photo, and I followed that description up with a gfdl-self tag. Something is clearly wrong with your suggestion that there was no proof. What do I need? A photograph of me taking the photograph? Grutness...wha?

File source problem with File:LawyersheadNZ.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:LawyersheadNZ.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

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What part of {{gfdl-self}} don't you understand? Grutness...wha? 00:38, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I understand all parts of {{gfdl-self}}, I would thank you for not being rude. I tagged them as no source because although it has your real name, you uploaded it under your username. When they are not the same (or obvious that they are one person) it is often a sign that the uploader is releasing an image that isn't their own to release. Putting you username as you did is the best practice so that anyone can see that everything is appropriately in place. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 01:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

This is the reason I make it clear on my user page what my real name is. It is also the reason why I used gfdl-self. There is no reason anyone would use gfdl-self if they were not the creator of the work. That is the reason why gfdl-self exists - I would not have used it if I did not hold the copyright on the photograph. If this was not obvious enough to you, it should have been. It certainly was to the admin who rejected your deletion nomination within only some 30 minutes of you placing it. Why you did not remove this note once the proposed deletion had been declined is a mystery - it should have been removed, and it was impolite of you not to have done so - or at least to have made some comment apologising for your incorrect nomination. It was because of your lack of courtesy in this matter that my note to you was somewhat curt, though hardly rude. I stand by my comment - if gfdl-self is used, it is an indication that the uploader has ownership of the work. If you do not understand that, I advise you to read the documentation of the template. If the uploader has further indicated the name of the work's creator, it is usually easy to check whether that name is the same as that of the uploader. Grutness...wha? 07:25, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Ditto the above comments by Grutness.
Does ЛееСуда have an agenda beyond editing?
v/r
Peter Rimar
Chitrapa

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MSU Interview

Dear Grutness,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 01:01, 10 February 2012 (UTC)