User talk:Ian.thomson

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Hi, I did not misspell my own name, there's just not a P anywhere in there!


Wikipedia does not care about you or me being qualified scholars. Wikipedia is not a scholarly site, but a summary of sources that speak for themselves. We all have the right to edit, but there are rules to make sure that proper sources are used for appropriate articles and editors are civil. -- In other words: duh only book-lurnin we likes 's frum books, not school-folk wit deir fancy-shmancy deeplomas. Ye ain't gots to be unschooled to edit, but ya bettah bring yer damn sauces like uh chef at tha Italian resteeraunt.

If I'm not responding, that's probably because

I'm asleep or otherwise having a life outside of Wikipedia.

If you want to:
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 accuse me of a Christian bias, read this. accuse Wikipedia's policies or me of an anti-Christian bias, read this.
leave a conversational or non-serious message (wazzup, barnstar, hate mail), go here. leave me a serious message (about article improvement), click here. see my contributions, go here.

New stuff goes at the bottom, people. Also, please sign your posts in talk pages with four tildes (~~~~)

thanks[edit]

For your RSN post. Can you figure out why Simon Mol has HIV Denialism as a see also or what makes Mol an Aids denialist? Rejecting that one has HIV doesn't mean they deny the existence of HIV. Simon Mol was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Simon Mol but recreated by this editor last December. Dougweller (talk) 15:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Wow, I'm gonna need more caffeine for that one. First impression is that if we trim out all the OR, there might not be enough left to establish notability. I've got an appointment in a bit, but I'll add it to my watchlist and make a note of it. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:26, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

See my longer request for consensus and the RS related to him and other "HIV circumcision denialists" on this talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zezen (talkcontribs) 21:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Simon Mol censored references digging[edit]

Dear Ian

Thank you *very much* for your hard word on Simon Mol. I am awed by your perseverance. More on Simon Mol's talk page.

Zezen (talk) 15:03, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any censorship, I'm seeing editors trying to get the article to actually stick to what the sources say without addition or alteration. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

New messages go at the bottom of the page[edit]

Dear Brother Ian, Thank You For Getting In Touch. It has been several thousands of years that most of humanity has been taught from many traditional sources including Encyclopedias that Messiahs, Maitreyas, and similar World Saver Figures would be male. Indeed, most of the persons on this list are male, so, in toto overall, more words are devoted to the males on this list than females. It is understandable that that one would want to keep the Claimant Page to descriptions of a few phrases, but if you think cumulatively about the millions of words written in so many times and places only recognizing males in these roles while females were made invisible, surely a bit of emphasis is needed for the females undertaking this most daunting and necessary of tasks, especially at this very dangerous moment on this Planet. Your understanding on this can assist You Yourself to be CoMessiah, indeed, the CoMessiah that fulfills the Promise of Wikipedia for not only the Present, but the Future of a Sustained instead of Destroyed Planet. When We on Earth have, for at least a few seasons or year or so, succeeded in giving females their overdue & now world saving half of notice and credit, we can then return to less emphasis on this reparation, and enjoy a Saved Egallitarian World. There is a wonderful old 1941 film about a group of men writing an encyclopedia, starring Barbara Stanwyck and Gary Cooper, Ball of Fire, about the importance of the Eternall Feminine to a Deeper Understanding of Truth, and of course, 1941 was in fact a very unsaved time of World War, and the Barbara Stanwyck character gives evidence to the very limited concept of the female that existed at that time. But if the characters played by Gary Cooper and his colleagues were alive today and asked if their encyclopedia could highlight the Feminine enough to prevent World War III including the War on Nature and Extinction of Humanity in addition to the many other species recently lost in mass extinctions, We think they would want their encyclopedia to not just be a dry list, but at this time, allow the Ball~anced Light of the Eternall Fire Within All People to Save Their World & Prevent It From Becoming A Burning Ball of Fire from Global Warming or Nuclear War or Meltdown, on such a topic as Messiah Claimants.

Every Blessing and Feel Free to Share Your Spirit About This

Your Many Sisterkind & BrotherKind Who Know The Speciall Importance of not Marginalizing the Female and Feminine at This Time

AllHerNamesz (talk) 08:19, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

AllHerNamesz (talk) 08:19, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. We merely stick to reliable academic or journalistic sources. In my experience, I find that people contributing to problems like global warming are people who have not learned to stick to "dry" reliable sources. These sources might be written by any gender, they might be summarized by any gender. Instead, most people causing trouble in matters such as global warming start from what they want to believe, trying to get others to believe it using emotional arguments (sometimes invoking the apocalypse), and only bringing in sources (reliable or not) as an afterthought (if at all) to attempt to justify their beliefs. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:05, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Yazidism[edit]

Please explain to me what is monotheism. Since you say my edit was wrong.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Omegablakk (talkcontribs)

Monotheism is the belief in the existence of a single high God. It can and does include forms of belief where this high God creates multiple angels who serve demiurgic roles. Yazidis believe Melek Taus and the other angels are angels, not gods, even if they are believed to be extremely powerful.
Also, your edits lacked academic sources and were counter to the sources in the article. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
And what source are you quoting for that. Belief and worship are not the same all monotheist believe in angels but they don't worship them. And also monotheist do not worship one god by way of angels, prophets or any other intermediary.Omegablakk (talk)<
You're confusing Monolatrism with Monotheism. There were already source in the article, I've added more. You're welcome to check the sources in the article itself. Burden of proof is on you to make your polytheism claim. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:28, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Ars Goetia[edit]

In your edit to the Bathin article you stripped the page of all the Kabbalistic attributes, citing 'Removing fringe ideas. I'm aware that sounds silly, but what some guy hallucinated in the 90s is not relevant to an academic discussion of historical beliefs about a mythological being'.

You left the source for the Goetia as the Mather/Crowley 1904 edition, so I'm curious if you understood those attributes come from Crowley in Liber 777 (1909). After reviewing the edits I see that the source cited was DuQuette, instead of Crowley. Is your objection to those being in the article because they weren't correctly cited as Crowley, or is your objection to Crowley as a source? --Saneisjus (talk) 10:19, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

You'll notice I didn't include the Golden Dawn's Kabbalistic attributes either. I left Crowley because the information cited to that is a bit closer to the historical manuscripts. In the absence of empirical evidence, all Wikipedia can discuss is what's in the widest variety of manuscripts and the oldest manuscripts. I plan on removing Crowley at some point and citing Joseph Peterson's critical edition, Skinner and Rankine's edition of Thomas Rudd's Goetia, Weyer's Pseudomonarchia Daemonum, Liber Officium Spirituum and Livre des Esperitz; similar to my overhaul of the current Lesser Key of Solomon article and work in those other articles.
I will eventually cite modern sources where they mention something unique (but with proper attribution, instead of describing DuQuette's views as universal), and may get around to including tables of what attributes are ascribed by different magicians, but to include only one magician's views appears WP:UNDUE (if not WP:FRINGE). Ian.thomson (talk) 12:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Unheaded evolution section[edit]

Webster's definition of theory: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true[1]

Your implication that I have an uneducated opinion about a theory is absolutely silly. Darwin's evolution theory is not at all provable.JoetheMoe25 (talk)

Absolutely right. No scientific theory is provable. That's how science works. There is always the possibility of new evidence. Dougweller (talk) 21:06, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
And scientific theory is not the same as Webster's definition. Scientific theory is an explanation that has been rigorously tested and not yet falsified. It's not just an idea--it's an idea that has stood up to new evidence. Aristophanes68 (talk) 21:08, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
And the evidence goes quite in favor of evolution. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:08, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Many have also said there was evidence the CIA killed JFK and then sent Jack Ruby to kill Oswald. Sometimes, even the majority polled doesn't want to accept the truth.JoetheMoe25 (talk) 21:15, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

[2] Facepalm3.svg Facepalm --NeilN talk to me 21:17, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I need to grab dinner, which may be up to an hour, so if there's any further business, I invite my talk page stalkers to make the sort bad decisions I would. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:25, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice work![edit]

Hey, nice work re-writing Reuben Swinburne Clymer. It was linked to the Sinistrari article I created a few years ago so I got a ping. Keep up the great work! Stlwart111 01:39, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! Ian.thomson (talk) 01:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Demonology[edit]

Looks like he attributed that, so not plagiarism but obviously WP:UNDUE, looks like no one actually paid much attention to it. Dougweller (talk) 07:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

He cited the source, but made no indication the quoted material was such. American school systems would still treat it as plagiarism (can't speak for international since it didn't come up in TEFL training). Still, the bit about Raum purportedly being a familiar of Napoleon I doesn't appear in the Dictionnaire Infernal or Pseudomonarchia Daemonum (where I assume Conway got the rest of the info on Raum), and so may be worthwhile for inclusion as a claim in a primary source (if handled properly). Ian.thomson (talk) 14:42, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Christ Myth theory[edit]

IMHO the most helpful work for that article would be Richard Carrier's On The Historicity of Jesus ; it is in his own words "the first comprehensive pro-Jesus myth book ever published by a respected academic press and under formal peer review". The first three chapters go over why there have been so many problems with the whole historical vs mythical Jesus debate with the main one being that there are effectively two historical Jesus theories involved: the Reductive theory: "Jesus was an ordinary but obscure individual who inspired a religious movement and copious legends about him" and the Triumphalist theory: "The Gospels are totally or almost totally true".

"Either side of the historicity debate will at times engage in a fallacy here, citing evidence supporting the reductive theory in defense of the triumphalist theory (as if that was valid), or citing the absurdity of the triumphalist theory as if this refuted the reductive theory (as if that were valid)" (sic) (Carrier, Richard (2014) On the Historicity of Jesus Sheffield Phoenix Press ISBN 978-1-909697-49-2 pg 30) --BruceGrubb (talk) 17:42, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, that is a good find. I'll also throw into Talk:Historicity of Jesus/sources if/when I get back to doing stuff in articles relating to CMT and Historicity. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

If you didn't read the notice at the top saying "New messages go at the bottom," I find it hard to believe you'll actually listen to anything I suggest[edit]

"Someone entered factually incorrect information on my institution's Wikipedia page. I am working to delete this information. Please let me know how I can. Thank you." — Preceding unsigned comment added by AveMariaUniversity (talkcontribs) 20:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

See section title. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:36, 30 September 2014 (UTC)