User talk:Ish ishwar

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hi.
this is a place where you can leave a message for me.

please use this link to leave me a new message     (most recent on top)

note to self: write something on mirative, Non-configurational language, Category talk:Indigenous languages of the Americas#Terrence Kaufman's "geolinguistic regions"



Navaho language[edit]

I posted query for assistance on Rich Farmbrough's talk page. I'm copying you, Ish ishwar, since you were mentioned.

The section "Language status" has a disputed note on it that dates back to January 2013. It refers one to the talk page, which I'm guessing is referring to the section "Is the language in decline, or incline?" The discussion is only two comments, a question by an ip address and a response by Ish ishwar who is still active on Wikipedia. The latter appears to me to settle the "dispute" by providing an adequate clarification. Additionally, it would appear the introduction has been edited to delete the contradiction. Is there any way to resolve this and delete the tag? It seems to me that leaving the tag for so long on the article undermines not only its integrity but the credibility of Wikipedia as a whole. Cheers! (glad the # of drama free days is approaching 2 months) --Beth Wellington (talk) 20:24, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


Jemez and Bell (1993)[edit]

Hi. A while ago, you added Bell (1993) to the Jemez language article in the bibliography section. I don't have access to this reference. If you do, and have some time, the page could really benefit from some help. Just whenever you get around to it. Thanks. Joeystanley (talk) 13:45, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Map Request[edit]

Hello, I noticed your fine map work for the Ahtna language and Tlingit language and was worndering if you might be up to the task of making one for the Eyak language. I think it would greatly add to the article. Thanks, Vedrfolnir (talk) 17:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC) HI, I AM LOOKING FOR MY PEOPLE, AND EVERY HISTORIAN WITH FAMILY TREES AND COLLEGES CANNOT FIND MY PPL BEFORE WOUNDED KNEE. BRANDY(FLYING HAWK)MEEKS meeksbrandy96@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.171.106.206 (talk) 05:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I have a passing interest in linguistics, and I recently came across some of your older contributions and edits. I am surprised at the depth and extent of your contributions, and I think what you have added to WP is tremendous. I am afraid that you have left WP without proper acknowledgement, I hope you continue your research and interest into languages, especially Native American. Edgar Vekilnik, Jr. (talk) 02:38, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Intensifier[edit]

Again, please see my reply at Talk:Intensifier. – Keith Cascio (talk) 22:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Intensifier. – Keith Cascio (talk) 04:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Optimality Theory[edit]

Hello,

Why did you turn back my contributions on Optimality Theory ("because regressive assimilation of the final segment always applies first after /ɪ/-insertion, so that it prevents other rules from applying; see also bleeding order")? There 's nothing wrong with this approach, it's just another version of classic order ranking. Greets, Solejheyen (talk) 18:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

hi.
so, we should talk about this on the OT page. – ishwar  (speak) 02:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


see: Talk:Optimality theory#rule ordering revertishwar  (speak) 03:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi![edit]

As of late, our paths on Wikipedia have not crossed. I just wanted to let you know that I do think of your contributions. Be well. CJLippert (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

hi.
i dont have so much time these days to edit. I hope youre well, too.
take care – ishwar  (speak) 20:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Color term vs name[edit]

I revert your move of color name to color term since the page covers names and not terms such as value, lightness, tone, shade, etc. PaleAqua (talk) 03:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

you actually reverted more than that. – ishwar  (speak) 04:04, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Reverting my reverts now. PaleAqua (talk) 07:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

English grammar[edit]

As the primary author, would you like to weigh in at Talk:English_grammar#Suggest_splitting? Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

hi.
feel free to edit and split. I'm sure it will be fun. – ishwar  (speak) 20:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

archives[edit]

Replaceable fair use Image:Navajolang-readingAdahooniligii.jpg[edit]

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redlink Morphological Doubling Theory[edit]

Issues with Tlingit map[edit]

Hi; I happened across your File:Tlingit-map.png last night and noted some issues on it:

  • the Tsetsaut have been extinct since the 19th Century, their territory is now part of the Nisga'a Lisims
  • Nass-Gitskan may be a language, but AFAIK the Nass people consider their language distinct from Gitxsan, if only in choice of orthography I wouldn't know; but they are politically separate/distinct despite shared cultural traditions/relations (clans etc). Point is, I guess, is this a map of language areas, or of territorial identity/claims? If the latter both Nisga'a and Gitxsan territories extend quite a bit further inland/north
  • discrete boundaries are always an issue as many people's lands overlap; Nisga'a and Gitxsan claims overlap with those of the Tahltan, for instance; but more to the point, The Taku River-Atlin Lake-Teslin Lake area is subjet to the "rule" of two kwaans of the Tlingit - Aa tlein kwaan and Desleen kwaan or something like that; their band government is the Taku River Tlingit First Nation and ethnigraphically they are known as the Inland Tlinkit, and they're found right up into the Yukon (kinda "top dog" in the pecking order in Whistehorse, as I was told bup there....).; those areas should at least be stripe-shaded, given the overlaping calims with the Tucthcone/Tahltan/Tagish.
  • There's a good map of Tlingit kwaanas on one of the refs on the History of the Tlingit page, I'll see if i can find it.Skookum1 (talk) 17:11, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Mono home.jpg[edit]

File:Mono home.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Mono home.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:Mono home.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 04:53, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

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Unreferenced BLPs[edit]

Information.svg Hello Ish ishwar! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 1,545 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

  1. John R. Ross - Find sources: "John R. Ross" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, would you be so kind as to give us support![edit]

Hello, I hope you are doing fine and I sincerely apologize for this intrusion. My name is Claudi Balaguer/Capsot (from the Catalan Viquipèdia or the Occitan Wikiccionari) I have just read your profile and you seem a very learned person and interested in (small) languages and cultures (talking to linguists may be fun sometimes...) so maybe I am not bothering you and you will help us... I'm part of an association "Amical de la Viquipèdia" which is trying to get some recognition as a Catalan Chapter but this has not been approved up to this moment because it does not belong to one state. We would appreciate your support, visible if you stick this on your first page: Wikimedia CAT. Thanks again, wishing you a great summer, take care! Capsot (talk) 07:53, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics[edit]

Hello, I am trying to bring WP:WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics back to semi-active status. Toward that end, I have moved all members who have not posted to the project page in the past six months to a section, "Inactive members." If you wish to be active in the project, I hope you will move your name back to the section, "Members." You may also remove your name if you are no longer interested in the project. Thanks, and happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 17:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Chiricahua Ft. Sill seal.jpg[edit]

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The Munsee language[edit]

Hi. Can you point me to the source you and Nikater relied on when you created this map? I'm involved in an editorial dispute with another editor who insists that material based on that map is wrong. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 17:37, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi.
I didnt create the map. Rather it seems to have been based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lenapehoking.png. I dont know why I'm listed as co-author.
The images I created are here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ishwar. All maps list their source unless later editors have removed this information (several folks have converted the png files to svg & sometimes they didnt indicate that I created the png source file.) Anyone who is creating a detailed map should not be using my maps of the entire north American continent since these maps lack detail and may be the result of a compromise of changing boundaries of tribes over time. The map sources that I used for these entire continent maps try show the distribution of tribes at first European contact which may differ from tribe to tribe.
If you want accurate information, I suggest starting with the Handbook of North American Indians Northeast volume. This volume was published several years, so the information may (or may not) be outdated by more current research. I cant say for sure since I dont know anything about northeastern Indians. (I'm just a linguist that happens to have specialist knowledge in Apachean languages, which are at the opposite end of the continent.)
ishwar  (speak) 20:18, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Harry Hoijer.jpg[edit]

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Fair use rationale for File:Harry Hoijer.jpg[edit]

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What was your reason for reverting me edit?[edit]

Refer to that talk page: Talk:Americanist_phonetic_notation#Why is it correct to tag non-IPA symbols as IPA?. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 01:03, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Still no answer? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 05:54, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Mongolian language[edit]

An article that you have been involved in editing, Mongolian language has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments good article reassessment page . If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. RcsprinterGimme a message 17:26, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Non-Free rationale for File:Jaco Pastorius - Donna Lee melody excerpt.ogg[edit]

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Zuni[edit]

Hi Ish ishwar

I've seen that you known the Zuni language. I have a question for you about its orthography. I've created on the french Wiktionary wattsita for dog, transcribed from a paper by Lynn Nichols in the IJAL. However I've seen in a link (Zuni Language) a wordlist where it is wattsida. Is there a rule for writing -t- and -p- intervocally as -d- and -b-? Thanx. Dhegiha (talk) 10:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

MSU Interview[edit]

Dear Ish ishwar,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the communityHERE, where it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.


So a few things about the interviews:

  • Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
  • Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
  • All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
  • All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
  • The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.


Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your nameHERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chlopeck (talkcontribs) 22:56, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Southern Athabascan grammar typo?[edit]

I think there is a misspelling in your original article Southern Athabascan grammar. Search for "betwitch" in that article. Since the three uses are near the word "witch", I think you meant to use the word "bewitch"? 24.28.17.231 (talk) 10:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you for teaching me how to pronounce ejective sounds (on the List of Phonetics Topics talk page). Alázhlis (talk) 00:42, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

June 2012[edit]

Your recent editing history at Navajo language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 03:41, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

flap realization of Hopi /r/[edit]

Dear Ish ishwar,

It's the first time I've used a talk page, so please excuse my amateur mistakes. I note that you have contributed to the Hopi_language page, and there I see "The retroflex r varies between a retroflex fricative ... and a flap". I'd _love_ to consult with whoever has noted these flaps. I've noted these flaps (or taps) myself, especially in the village of Orayvi, and I've had trouble getting book reviewers to believe me. Did you by any chance write the part about the flaps? or do you know how I could find the author? Thanks Krbeesley (talk) 01:33, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi.
You're very lucky I was logged in to Wikipedia on the same day that you wrote me this note. I rarely check Wikipedia these days.
Yes, I added probably all of the notes about Hopi phonology including that bit about /r/. Just to be clear, I've never heard Hopi in the wild. And, I don't run in Uto-Aztecan circles. (My specialist knowledge of American languages is in Athabascan, especially Apachean.)
The only person that I know of who noted the flap realization was LaVerne Masayesva Jeanne. This appears in her dissertation (MIT, chair: Ken Hale). Here's the quote:
‘The sole remaining "liquid", the rhotic written /r/, is produced in a variety of ways, ranging from an extremely light tap [r] to a retroflexed, i.e. apico-domal, fricative [], with the latter allophone predominating. This consonant is voiced except in syllable-final position where it is regularly a voiceless apico-domal fricative [].’ (p. 12)
You can download it: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/16325
She's alive but retired: http://www.unr.edu/anthropology/people/faculty/laverne-masayesva-jeanne
The note about Mishongnovi /r/ being weakly fricative is from ‘Moencopi variations from Whorf's Second Mesa Hopi’ by Clyde Kluckhohn & Kenneth MacLeish in IJAL, 21, pp. 150–156, (1955).
Most of the phonological content in the wiki is, of course, from Whorf's grammatical sketch in that 1940s handbook.
Sorry to hear about folks doubting your hearing. Hope this info helps you.
ishwar  (speak) 15:32, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Many thanks for your response, and the pointer to Jeanne's thesis. I've tried to get in touch with her before, but as you note, she retired about 4 years ago. I'll try again. I first became aware of the pre-vocalic tap realizations of /r/ a few years ago, in Orayvi, when an Orayvi friend heard me say "Orayvi" with the usual apico-domal fricative-sibilant [ẓ], and he _corrected_ me to say it with a tap. I now know an Orayvi woman who also uses such taps. And I've heard the taps from other Orayvis whom I don't know personally. And I have a 1964 recording of an Orayvi woman ("Mrs. Monongye") who seems to pronounce the pre-vocal /r/ as a fricative or approximant that is, however, not sibilant. (The usual [ẓ] and [ṣ] allophones are sibilant, very roughly similar to the English s in measure and sh in ship.)

I'm investigating the thesis that tap, or at least non-sibilant, allophones of pre-vocal /r/ are common in Orayvi and perhaps other "Friendly" villages (Kiqötsmovi, Upper Munqapi). Lower Munqapi, Hotvela and Paaqavi, founded by "Hostiles" after the 1906 Orayvi Split, would (I conjecture) use the more common [ẓ] allophone before a vowel. Ideally, a survey should be done, but getting permission to do linguistic work on the Hopi Reservation has been difficult for decades. Suggesting that there are linguistic differences between the traditionally Friendly and Hostile villages may also be politically incorrect.

Historical orthographies may also provide clues. In 1859-60, two Mormon missionaries (Marion Shelton and Thales Haskell) lived 4 months in Orayvi, and Shelton wrote down almost 500 Hopi words in the Deseret Alphabet, a phonemic alphabet that the Mormons were then promoting as a reform orthography for English. I'm editing this vocabulary with Dirk Elzinga of Brigham Young University. The /r/ before a vowel (there are quite a few of them) he consistently transcribed using the Deseret Alphabet R-letter, so I assume that he heard it as something clearly rhotic. (He knew and even taught Spanish, so he would have heard an alveolar tap as an R.) But the coda /r/ (only three examples in the vocabulary) he consistently transcribed using the Deseret Alphabet S-letter. (The /s/ phoneme is usually, but not always, transcribed using the Deseret Alphabet sh-as-in-ship letter. There is a Deseret Alphabet s-as-in-measure letter, but he never uses it when writing Hopi words.) His orthographical conventions suggest that he heard pre-vocalic /r/s that were rhotic, but not sibilant, and coda /r/s that were sibilant. It's highly unlikely that he perceived them as belonging to the same phoneme. These transcriptions would be consistent with pronunciations of /r/ that I hear in Orayvi today.

In 1892 a Mennonite missionary named H.R. Voth arrived in Orayvi and started studying the language. The earliest Hopi book (1916) that I've found in the Mennonite orthography uses <r> for the pre-vocalic /r/ and, it seems, for the code /r/. These conventions are very similar to Marion Shelton's, and it seems unlikely that the Mennonites realized, in 1916, that they were dealing with one /r/ phoneme. By 1923, however, a subsequent Mennonite publication uses <r> for pre-vocalic /r/ but <rs> for coda /r/. So it looks like they finally realized that there was just one /r/ phoneme, but they retained the orthographical convention <rs> for the coda /r/ to reflect its sibilance.

But as I said, my ear, my scholarship and my political correctness are being questioned by a prominent reviewer, so I'm trying to be very careful. Your pointer to Jeanne's dissertation was very helpful.

Thanks again and best wishes, Krbeesley (talk) 17:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Lillooet/St'at'imc/St'at'imcets PRIMARYTOPIC/dab dispute at RM[edit]

Hi; I see you were one of the first people to edit the Lillooet title, which I have filed an RM under per WP:CSG#Places and a mandate to do so from CANTALK/WPCANADA....I won't say much more but here, read AjaxSmack's oppose vote and my responses which detail the history of the article/title and its supposedly competing PRIMARYTOPICS (the language and people articles). Sources are on my side, policy is too, and yet...... how I miss the early days of Wikipedia when Phaedriel and Luigizanasi and other people with broad minds and no guidelines strapped to their boots were making sense and cooperation....instead of knee-jerk opposition and completely uniformed and uncited claims...... I'm from the damn place, am something of a recognized expert on the history and geography of the area and all its peoples, and being treated anti-AGF by people who .... just don't know very much at all, and apparently don't want to either.

I don't know if you're among those that are hostile to me for TLDR or whatever, I'm doing my best to supply guidelines and sources...and keep my cool.....but I see you were the one who established the St'at'imc and St'at'imcets titles which were moved without discussion five years later; St'at'imc is back where it belongs after an exhaustive RM last year, I was too tired to go after Lillooet language to move it back to its correct title as my "opponent" has been vicious and obstructionist and I actually had a bout of nervous exhaustion and economic loss last year from dealing with his ongoing resistance at that RM and four others of the same kind. WP:CSG#Places is my mandate and there are dozens of parallel precedents/examples......but I'm being thrown loopy quantitative derisions concerning the town and more, despite all the googles lined up and policies cited.....as I've said elsewhere "when will the madness stop?". Gawd, I miss Phaedriel.......I don't know if you'll vote there, or even close the damn thing; at least I know you can read and won't throw TLDR at me....I'm tired of the animosity, the off-base resistance to obvious,citable PRIMARYTOPIC, and the reality is that the people article is differently titled, and the language article should be, and that they are NOT valid dabs re primarytopic as a result......

Kwami's attempt to shut down discussion has been repeated over many RMs; Comox, Saanich, Bella Bella, and Bella Coola are also in the same boat as still-open RMs though Sechelt/Shishalh and Chemainus/Stz'uminus and others are all closed despite the same sorts of objections. His call for a discussion of guidelines has been debunked by CambridgeBayWeather, who points out that all the guidelines mandating such moves already exist; the discussion at WP:NCETs talkpage is going nowhere and needs more input from people who actually discuss things, instead of ignore those they don't want at the party.....sorry to "rant", as you know I left Wikipedia after the 2011 Cdn election/Harper-govt articles/ads block-fiasco and when I came back several months later I discovered undiscussed and rampant changes to long-standing titles the "old consensus" within IPNA and other members about using native terminology had been upended by one-sided and ill-considered invocation of NCL, without even attempts to read and fix the articls affected; that guideline had been tailor-remade to fit the "new agenda"......and efforts by its authors to refute invocations of WP:NCET and WP:UNDAB and even WP:TITLE have been made to assert its primacy over non-language articles.....

Nnow, since I have been threatened with a long-term block for criticizing other editors (the concept of NPA has been, it seems, extended to criticism of actions and ideas, even though directly personal attacks against myself apparently are more than OK and go unremarked upon), I better shut up huh? In any case, your thoughts whether here or on the RM about PRIMARYTOPIC of "Lillooet" as the original person who moved Lillooet to a redirect to St'at'imc in 2005 are part of my discussion.....Skookum1 (talk) 17:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Found this old comment of yours from 2005[edit]

Been doing RMs to remove needless "people" dabs added by Kwami and other advocates for WP:NCL (and catching all kinds of heat for it, which you may have noticed it, though I've "won" 95% of these RMs). In one discussion somewhere Maunus said "we can't take Skookum1's word for it" - I think per the "old consensus" as I describe t he old set of standards our loose group of editors came to terms with back then; this quote is evidence of its existence:

"ok, but the Dilzhę́’é prefer to be called Dilzhę́’é, regardless of what non-Dilzhę́’é call them. I note that other articles such as Nuxálk (= Bella Coola) & Nuxálk language use the names preferred by the peoples rather than the names more well-known to outsiders. i was just going by this convention. peace"

The obstinacy about those names is frightening at times, and disturbing at others, and otherwise just a bore...but disruptive to getting correct titles back where they were before; Bella Coola just went through an RM, and Bella Bella another, closed "no consensus/not moved" despite ample evidence that the towns are the PRIMARYTOPIC (the Heiltsuk, who are the government of Bella Bella, call it that). The "old consensus" I've been meaning to draft up, but am up to my eyeballs in admin-alligators wanting to ban me; but would appreciate your input in such matters as someone "from the old consensus". Phaedriel and Luigizanasi are gone now, and others. I'm being treated as a DIVA for standing up for guidelines and our old consensus......by people who don't even read the guidelines they quote themselves, and who violate guidelines right and left in their attacks on me, or their spurious and persistent "oppose" votes. The article t hat is from Tonto Apache people now has an RM on it to revert it to Tonto Apache, by the way.Skookum1 (talk) 11:19, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment[edit]

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC)