User talk:Jacobolus

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How to edit a page, General tutorial, Picture tutorial, How to write a great article, Naming conventions, Manual of Style, help pages, village pump, Images for deletion

Again, welcome! --Lst27 (talk) 23:54, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Archived discussion[edit]

A kitten for you![edit]

Cute grey kitten.jpg

Hey, thanks for cleaning up the English Chiapas entry. My Anthropology class edited that page for a group project grade and I'm glad someone fixed our undergrad crap.

Ketchupstan (talk) 21:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Coffee and Conversation?[edit]

A small cup of coffee.JPG

I saw that you had made an edit to the Albert Munsell page here. We had tried to change the external link to the new Munsell website, and you made it go back to Xrite. Anyway, Xrite's site is coming down since Munsell is rebranding, hence the change, but that's no biggie.

The company I work for is managing the new Munsell blog and their online campign, hence the edit. Since ti seems like you have a interest in Munsell, color and photography, we were wondering if you had any interest in writing for the Munsell blog as a guest post? We thought that you could even add in some of your images, etc so that it would be a good vehicle for you? If this is something that interests you please send me an email at claudia@dragonsearch.net.

Thanks! FauxClaud (talk) 21:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Claudia, I didn’t change the link you updated (I just added back the text that explained that the “Munsell Color Company” is owned by X-Rite, and is not an independent entity). At some point, it would be nice to better document the history of what was originally the Munsell Color Company – from my understanding, the intellectual property was sold, and the proceeds went to finance the MCSL at RIT – and Wikipedia could definitely use better biographies of color scientists like Munsell & his son, Nickerson, Judd, MacAdam, & al. I don’t have any idea what I would write for a Munsell blog. What exactly is the blog supposed to do? –jacobolus (t) 22:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

HSV, mod6-equation[edit]

Hi, Thanks for clarifying. It was rather hasty of me to edit the page after reading only a fraction and seeing some apparent good results with +6. The current text is probably clear enough for the intended readers. I later printed the page and read it in detail, it's an exceptional resource, and the explanatory images are great! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.232.18 (talk) 03:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Glad you found the article useful! Let me know if there’s anything else I can help you with. Cheers. –Jacob

You're invited! New England Wikimedia General Meeting[edit]

The New England Wikimedia General Meeting will be a large-scale meetup of all Wikimedians (and friends) from the New England area in order to discuss regional coordination and possible formalization of our community (i.e., a chapter). Come hang out with other Wikimedians, learn more about ongoing activities, and help plan for the future! –Message delivered by Dominic at 09:12, 11 April 2012 (UTC).

Whoops. I live in San Francisco now. –jacobolus (t) 21:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Events[edit]

  • The San Francisco WikiWomen's Edit-a-Thon 2 will be held on Saturday, June 16, 2012 at the Wikimedia Foundation offices in San Francisco. Wikipedians of all experience levels are welcome to join us! This event will be specifically geared around encouraging women to learn how to edit and contribute to Wikipedia. Workshops on copy-editing, article creation, and sourcing will be hosted. Bring a friend! Come one, come all! EdwardsBot (talk) 23:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • You are invited to the second Great American Wikinic taking place in Golden Gate Park, in San Francisco, on Saturday, June 23, 2012. We're still looking for input on planning activities, and thematic overtones. List your add yourself to the attendees list, and edit the picnic as you like. —Max Klein 18:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

File:Massi-deb.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Massi-deb.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Peripitus (Talk) 11:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

US flag colors[edit]

As a participant (and in this case, OP) in the most recent debate I can find on this subject, I thought you might be interested in this discussion here. Thanks. CRRays (talk) 20:02, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I responded. –jacobolus (t) 21:57, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Please do not edit my signature. Thanks. CRRays (talk) 00:56, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but on my talk page, I don’t want to read bold, colored, drop-shadowed, relocated text, or talk page links whose purpose isn’t clear. If you like, I can remove your comments from my page altogether. –jacobolus (t) 03:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

New info[edit]

Well, I just ran into http://www.colorassociation.com/standard_color_reference tonight and it not only shows what color changes were done but also gave an approximate look into what the colors will appear on the screen. While it is not the best image in the world, but it is awesome. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:48, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

And http://www.colorassociation.com/sites/default/files/color%20standards%20charts.pdf has the representation of OG Red and OG Blue. I think we got ourselves a winner. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:49, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Recolored Flag of the United States.svg
It’s not at all clear though what assumptions they were making about the use of that file when deciding what colors to use. That is, is it intended for display on (some particular?) screen? Is it intended to be printed? The colors in that PDF look pretty similar to the set of colors I used to make a test US flag image (shown at right), which most in the conversation weren’t willing to accept because white didn’t look white. But if we’re going to make white be the same as computer display white, then red and blue have to be commensurately brightened to have the same relative appearance. Overall, I still think the decisions I made and carefully documented in the US Flag talk page in coming to the colors used by the current flag image are pretty good ones (I ran them by some professional color scientists, etc.), and I haven’t seen any reason to think there’s any better choice of colors floating out there. –jacobolus (t) 06:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
US flag (CAUS website).svg
That looks about what I have, though the PDF is a tad bit darker. I think with the white, there are a select few who want to use the proper white, but after many fights on the Commons, the majority of users wanted to have white as computer white (#ffffff) and not the Pantone/Cable shades. I just think with what I found, it is just something to look at (and also finally documents the change in codes with just one document). Plus the color pdf file says it is an approximation and shouldn't be used for fabrics. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:34, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
The PDF document is also in CIE Lab, so the blue comes out as L 18 a 8 b -23 and the red is L 32 a 54 b 29. I know it is not much, the same with this document I can say too, but at least we are closer than how we were when we last talked almost a year ago. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:44, 8 November 2012 (UTC) (PS, I added the colors from the document to show what I got)

File:Avid-hsl.png listed for deletion[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Avid-hsl.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Bulwersator (talk) 00:22, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Definitely a mistake. Did you read the accompanying text? –jacobolus (t) 01:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


Hi Peripitus,

Did you read the discussion at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 August 31#File:Avid-hsl.png before you went ahead and deleted the image? As far as I can tell the arguments made were weak and off-topic, and none of my responses were ever reexamined by the commenters. I’m quite upset that you considered that “discussion” to have found “consensus”. I thought Wikipedia discussions were based on considering arguments and reason, rather than tallying supporters (apparently 2? 3?). I would appreciate it if you reinstate the image, until such a time as a convincing argument is made for its deletion. Thanks. –jacobolus (t) 08:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello? Are you around, Peripitus? Could you please put this image back pending a real discussion? I’ll make notes about it at the article talk page and the relevant wikiprojects, and we can actually reach some real consensus based on rational argument rather than the whims of a couple overzealous editors. –jacobolus (t) 01:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

jacobolus, I think you are confusing your strength of feeling about this image with it's adherence to non-free content policy here. A summary of the arguments put by the three other contributors to the debate could be - "this image could be replaced either by text or a freely licenced image without significantly impairing reader's understanding of the topic" as the debate was on the basis of NFCC#1 and WP:NFCC#8. While I understand your feelings on this, you did not adequately demonstrate why this particular image meets the criteria and why those seeking to delete it where incorrect. - Peripitus (Talk) 11:17, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:careless image actions[edit]

Re:careless image actions

"in the process killing any page history" - how it damaged page history? Bulwersator (talk) 20:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you[edit]

Hello I am also very upset with Bulwersator this person erased a picture that I personally took with my own camera and I clearly specified it I even own video of this. I been also having trouble with another extremist fanatical user at wiki commons maybe it is because of the new September things. I don't know about you but I am sick and tired to be treated with such lack of respect and that all my time and work be destroyed by these lunatics that have nothing to do with their life. I want to seriously complain, do you know where or how can we report this people? I hope you join me otherwise they will keep the place for themselves and kick the rest of us out. --FR9 21:35, 1 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frog890 (talkcontribs)

Can you help me please[edit]

If you can please comment for keeping my picture here. Thanks: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Trevor_Moore_on_The_Trevor_Moore_Show.png#Answer_and_request_to_let_my_files_be --FR9 22:22, 1 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frog890 (talkcontribs)

You're invited! - Wiki Loves Monuments - San Francisco Events[edit]

Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco

Hi! As part of Wiki Loves Monuments, we're organizing two photo events in the San Francisco Bay Area and one in Yosemite National Park. We hope you can come out and participate! Feel free to contact User:Almonroth with questions or concerns.

There are three events planned:

We look forward to seeing you there!

You are receiving this message because you signed up on the SF Bay Area event listing, or have attended an event in the Bay Area. To remove yourself, please go here. EdwardsBot (talk) 00:43, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:TextMate screenshot.png[edit]

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. LegoKontribsTalkM 04:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

You're invited! Ada Lovelace Day San Francisco[edit]

October 16 - Ada Lovelace Day Celebration - You are invited!
Ada Lovelace color.svg
Come celebrate Ada Lovelace Day at the Wikimedia Foundation offices in San Francisco on October 16! This event, hosted by the Ada Initiative, the Mozilla Foundation, and the Wikimedia Foundation. It'll be a meet up style event, though you are welcome to bring a laptop and edit about women in STEM if you wish. Come mix, mingle and celebrate the legacy of the world's first computer programmer.

The event is October 16, 5:00 pm - 8:00 pm, everyone is welcome!

You must RSVP here - see you there!
SarahStierch (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Unique hues[edit]

I try to comprehend how you derived the RGB values from the CAMCIE02 hue angles and lightnesses with Argyll CMS. By any chance do you remember which of the numerous Argyll tools you used? What was your procedure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.104.175.11 (talk) 21:01, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I don’t precisely remember, but if I was to do the same today, I would use my javascript implementation of CIECAM02, https://github.com/jrus/chromatistjacobolus (t) 21:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot jacobolus, I will give it a try. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.174.218.181 (talk) 20:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Harvard shield-Dental.png[edit]

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 01:11, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon tomorrow (Saturday) in Oakland[edit]

Hi, I hope you will be joining us tomorrow afternoon at the Edit-a-thon at Tech Liminal, in Oakland. We'll be working on articles relating to women and democracy (and anything else that interests you). It's sponsored by the California League of Women Voters, Tech Liminal, and me.

If this is the first you are hearing of this event, my apologies for the last-minute notice! I announced it on the San Francisco email list and by a banner on your watchlist, but I neglected to look at the San Francisco invitation list until this evening. If you can't make it this time, I hope to see you at a similar event soon! -Pete (talk) 04:45, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Xv hsv-modification.png)[edit]

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Orphaned non-free media (File:PS 2.5 hue-saturation tool.png)[edit]

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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:03, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Unique hues for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Unique hues is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Unique hues until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 09:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Iris cat.jpg

I am very lucky to get your article about “hsl and hsv"。 it just solved my big problems about many conceptions. thanks. but i can't find how to derive that formula about hue??? the diagram is not so clear. if you use more clear geometry graph to demonstrate , i think it would be better.. my mail : qduwg@163.com mr. wang. Qduwg (talk) 02:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Mr.Jacobolus: I want get your mail for talking some problems about HSV/RGB, would you give me ? Thanks . best regards. My mail: qduwg@163.com Mr.wang Qduwg (talk) 11:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Mr. Wang. My email isn’t hard to find, it’s jacobolus AT gmail. –jacobolus (t) 19:34, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Wiknic 2013[edit]

Wiknic 2013
Sunday, June 23rd · 12:34pm · Lake Merritt, Oakland
Theme: Hyperlocal list-making
Lake Merritt Wild Duck Refuge (Oakland, CA)

This year's 2013 SF Wiknik will be held at Lake Merritt, next to Children's Fairyland in Oakland. This event will be co-attended by people from the hyperlocal Oakland Wiki. May crosspollination of ideas and merriment abound!

Location and Directions[edit]

  • Location: The grassy area due south of Children's Fairyland (here) (Oakland Wiki)
    • Nearest BART: 19th Street
    • Nearest bus lines: NL/12/72
    • Street parking abounds
EdwardsBot (talk) 04:43, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You're invited...[edit]

to two upcoming Bay Area events:

  • Maker Faire 2013, Sat/Sun May 18-19, San Mateo -- there will have a booth about Wikimedia, and we need volunteers to talk to the public and ideas for the booth -- see the wiki page to sign up!
  • Edit-a-Thon 5, Sat May 25, 10-2pm, WMF offices in San Francisco -- this will be a casual edit-a-thon open to both experienced and new editors alike! Please sign up if on the wiki page if you can make it so we know how much food to get.

I hope you can join us at one or both! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 20:19, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

… stuck in a 19th century mindset about how color vision works[edit]

Are you upset that I contested your original research on how to map Munsell hues to sRGB? I am possibly stuck in 19th century with my real projective spaces, straight lines, and convex sets, but I think that your “high color science” is far from infallibility. Open this colorimetric sheet, make fgrep ' 5B ' to extract relevant rows, locate them on CIE 1931 chromaticity diagram, and you’ll see that for a reasonable colorfulness 5B do not belong to sRGB at all. Of course, for desaturated variants the hue can shifted with various chromatic adaptations, encoding ambient white points, and so on beyond recognition. After I attracted attention to several of such high-color-science deceptions, your predictably become to make remarks about my mindset. Popular standards, such as sRGB, is a lie. Thanks to Wikipedia I realized how much they lie. And you certainly know how much does sRGB lie too. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 08:17, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

There’s no original research involved anywhere along here, but in any event, I’m not upset, just frustrated, because I feel like I’m talking to a brick wall. You are looking at the rows for hue = 5B at value = 1, which is something very close to black. That’s an entirely different color than we’re talking about. To usefully see what these Munsell colors look like on a computer display, you must (1) find a reasonable value/chroma at hue 5B, then do a chromatic adaptation from Standard Illuminant C (by which the Munsell colors are defined/measured) to Illuminant D65 (I recommend CAT02 or if you prefer the Bradford CAT), then convert from XYZ to linear RGB space, and finally apply the sRGB gamma function. Until you understand how those steps work, you’re going to be stuck. –jacobolus (t) 02:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
I did not say anything about V = 1, where for C = 10 the sheet lists a blatantly unphysical chromaticity (look at x, y values; http://www.cis.rit.edu/research/mcsl2/online/munsell.php apparently tries to explain this), but for C = 8 it does not differ greatly from, say, V = 5 at its maximal C: these are shades of approximately the same hue. I say you the third time: there is no reasonable [for sRGB] chroma at hue 5B: one has to choose between (approximation of) out-if-gamut colors and a use of tints, where your chromatic adaptations can distort the hue greatly. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 06:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
You are incorrect. Here’s a picture showing chromaticity coordinates for Munsell colors at value 5: http://i.imgur.com/vTtzlHo.jpg (note the contours shown are at steps of 2 chroma). I don’t have time right now to overlay the sRGB primaries on this picture, but you should be able to do that yourself if you desire. –jacobolus (t) 14:56, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
So what? I overlaid the triangle from File:Cie Chart with sRGB gamut by spigget.png and saw the same I talk to you for several days: 5B @ V = 5 runs along a slightly curved line (going from white approximately through steel blue, cerulean, towards spectral ≈ 481 nm), it crosses sRGB’s green–cyan–blue line shortly after C = 7 and continues towards the spectral locus until C = 16. V = 5, C = 7 is a tint (or a tone; it is not important). When you implement it as a paint under (a slightly bluish) Illuminant C and then switch to a slightly cyanish Illuminant D65, you expectedly push its hue further towards cyan. From there was derived; I agree now that it is scientific, but it is unrepresentative. 5B is a fail for sRGB, which achieved a reasonable coverage of so named warm colors, which are traditionally preferred (BTW I read it at www.handprint.com, thanks :D), on the expense of these cool colors. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
BTW, to check the wisdom of your “chromatic adaptation from Standard Illuminant C to Illuminant D65”, could you compute sRGB values for Munsell white? ☺ Incnis Mrsi (talk) 17:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
That’s right. All of the colors along that curved line, when you paint a small patch with each one and put it on a neutral background, appear to have the same hue. All the bits outside the triangle made on the chromaticity diagram by the RGB primaries are outside the gamut of sRGB, so the brightest example we can see on a typical computer display is something like the 5B 5/7 that you mentioned (although as we’ve been discussing, that might be slightly shifted by the chromatic adaptation transformation). I don’t know what you mean by “unrepresentative”, “a fail”, etc. If you mean that sRGB is very limited in colorful middle-to-high-value blue and blue-green colors, that’s quite right. In response to your second question: these chromatic adaptations are defined such that they map white to white, so in this case Illuminant C will be mapped exactly to D65. –jacobolus (t) 01:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
One thing you might be misunderstanding here: 5B is not supposed to be any particular sort of “blue”. The Munsell “red”, “yellow”, “green”, “blue”, and “purple” hues were chosen to be equally spaced in hue, not to precisely match those color names. In fact, 5B is a bit on the green side of the “cyan” CMYK ink, and not within the range of colors that the ISCC–NBS system puts within the label “blue” (that would be 9B through 7PB), as you can see on that picture I pasted in the sRGB talk page discussion. –jacobolus (t) 03:58, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Not 5B in general, but . If you draw an (additive) chromaticity triangle for white, extreme (near-spectral) 5B, and process cyan , then it will become process cyan more greenish than any color on the straight line white–481 nm. If your computation of the sRGB sample is correct, then apparently 5B in curved enough to envelop process cyan into its convex hull. Possibly, this is because Munsell’s “hue” corresponds to the dilution of dyes semantic, not one of mixing of lights. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 06:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Photo request[edit]

Hi Jacobolus, I'm a user from the German Wikipedia so please excuse my lack of suitable English. At the moment I extend the German article about Edward Bernays which needs some photos to break up the gray. Here I saw that you take photo requests for Cambridge, Massachusetts – which is perfect. Bernays lived in 7 Lowell Street, Cambridge. You can see a picture of the Victorian house here. I want to ask if it is possible for you to take some photos of the house to illustrate the Bernays-articles in Wikipedia. I would be truly grateful. Best regards --Florean Fortescue 10:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. I should update that. I now live in San Francisco. –jacobolus (t) 21:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You're invited: Art & Feminism Edit-a-thon[edit]

Art & Feminism Edit-a-Thon - You are invited!
Csaky madonna.jpg
Hi Jacobolus! The first Art and Feminism Edit-a-thon will be held on Saturday, February 1, 2014 in San Francisco.

Any editors interested in the intersection of feminism and art are welcome. Wikipedians of all experience levels are invited! Experienced editors will be on hand to help new editors.
Bring a friend and a laptop! Come one, come all! Learn more here!

SarahStierch (talk) 08:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

You're invited! WikiWomen's Edit-a-thon at the University of California, Berkeley[edit]

Saturday, April 5 - WikiWomen's Edit-a-thon at the University of California, Berkeley - You are invited!
Woman Montage (1).jpg
The University of California, Berkeley's Berkeley Center for New Media is hosting our first edit-a-thon, facilitated by WikiWoman Sarah Stierch, on April 5! This event, focused on engaging women to contribute to Wikipedia, will feature a brief Wikipedia policy and tips overview, followed by a fast-paced energetic edit-a-thon. Everyone is welcome to attend.

Please bring your laptop and be prepared to edit about women and women's history!

The event is April 5, from 1-5 PM, at the Berkeley Center for New Media Commons at Moffitt Library.

You must RSVP here - see you there! SarahStierch (talk) 23:31, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Notification of automated file description generation[edit]

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You're invited! Litquake Edit-a-thon in San Francisco[edit]

You are invited!Litquake Edit-a-thon in San Francisco → Saturday, October 11, 2014, from 1-5 PM
Amy Tan.jpg

The Edit-a-thon will occur in parallel with Litquake, the San Francisco Bay Area's annual literature festival.

Writers from all over the Bay Area and the world will be in town during the nine day festival, so the timing is just right for us to meet, create and improve articles about literature and writers.

All levels of Wikipedia editing experience are welcome. This event will include new editor training. Please bring your laptop.

The venue: Wikimedia Foundation offices (149 New Montgomery Street, 6th Floor San Francisco, CA 94105) – Google Maps view

You must RSVP here — see you there! --Rosiestep (talk) 03:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)