User talk:Jhall1

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Archived messages: /archive Jun,06-Dec,06 /archive Jan,07-Jun,07 /archive Jul,07-Jun,09

William Clarke's All-England Eleven

Hello, John. 'Jack told me that you could be interested in this article. I've noticed that you've already discovered it. Do you have any idea how I can expand it? I'd like to deal with the end of the team and the attitude of the MCC towards All-England, but I'm a little bit short of WP:RS and, more crucialy, of time as well. Thanks for your help! OrangeKnight (talk) 07:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Cambridgeshire CCC

Hi John. Both dates are correct per Wisden 1983, p.278, which gives a list of formation dates. In fact the county club did not play outside the East Anglia area until 1857 when it played Surrey and was recognised as first-class from that match until its demise in 1869. CTC continued to play against CUCC until 1861 at least but there was overlap between CTC and Cambs CCC so it is difficult to separate them. The modern Cambs CCC was founded in 1891. --Jack | ^{talk page} 09:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

W G Grace

Hi John. When you look at some of the players who have been featured on the front page, it seems amiss that the greatest player of them all has not; and remains just a measly B-class. Do you think we are getting close to the point where WG could be nominated for FA?

I think some polish is needed, especially as there are a handful of dubious sentences which I've tagged for "cn". The thing is that the article has now topped the 70kb mark and yet I could still add lots of content: it's knowing where to draw the line. This morning, for example, I've been writing about his education which, hitherto unmentioned, must be there to "round him out".

What do you think? Regards. --Jack | ^{talk page} 10:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, to be quite honest with you, I despise the FA and GA processes which, as you say, take up a lot of time and are extremely frustrating. Perhaps we should consider going for the A-class rating which is handled within the cricket project itself. The only problem with that will be finding someone who's willing to do the review that hasn't been involved with the article. --Jack | ^{talk page} 19:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

No, GA is a special process like FA but supposedly not as stringent. You have to nominate an article on a certain page and then leave it there till someone (who could be anyone at all) takes up the review. I've never fully understood the rationale for A being ahead of GA but I think GA is supposed to mean an article that provides a broad coverage and has been well written and presented; whereas an A is supposed to be a complete article. What I don't get is how any article can be considered complete unless it is very short with a clearly defined scope.

I'm thinking maybe it is a bad idea to go through the reviews and we should just make the article as good and as complete as we think it should be, which is what we try to do anyway. --Jack | ^{talk page} 20:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I bought the Rae biography some months ago and I've read it twice now. I think it's easily the best WG biography because it is so thorough and makes clear what its sources are; plus he's a very readable author who isn't overawed by WG like some of his biographers have been. --Jack | ^{talk page} 20:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Third session

The match report for DH Robins' XI v Indians in 1971 says that India was set a target of 182 in just under two hours. It is also said elsewhere in the same report that Abbas Ali Baig was out just before tea (65-1-38). There was no rain on the last day. So the statements could both be true only if the final session of the match was only 60-90 minutes long. Was this true for any fc matches in England during this era ? Tintin 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I am using the book "India in England 1971" by Sunder Rajan that was published just after the series. Don't have the Wisden. Tintin 13:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Bodyline

From the bodyline article : "Larwood and Voce practised the plan over the next two seasons of English county cricket, terrorising their opponents as Nottinghamshire finished near the top of the competition each year. By the time the English team left for Australia on 17 September 1932, Larwood and Voce, along with Bill Bowes from Yorkshire, had perfected their attack". This implies a few things, am not sure whether they are all correct.

(a) This says that they had already tried out bodyline at home, in county cricket, several times. Did they ? Carr used it a couple of times (against Hobbs etc) and was admonished for it. The article says that it was after the tour.

(b) That Bowes already knew the plan before leaving England. I think in the serial, until Jardine explains it to Larwood and Voce while travelling in the ship, they had no clue about the exact tactics. If Bowes was on it already, it has many implications. Did the other fast bowlers know it already - Allen or Tate - or was it just for the really fast pros ? If Bowes had known and "perfected it", at least the Yorkshire captain would have known it. Etc. Tintin 08:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

There is also no word about the newspaper business that Bradman got into. Could you please archive the old stuff in this page. Tintin 08:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I had to go for a brief hibernation. Tintin 08:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

John Daniell (cricketer)

My thanks for your correction of my importance classification. I fear I was going through some many players so quickly that my brains started to addle! Harrias (talk) 20:54, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

John Arlott

I was intending to yes, but got sidetracked with Cornelius Coward! You are welcome to add whatever content you feel suitable - I know you've been around cricket articles for a long time and know what tone and content are appropriate and what isn't. :) SGGH ^ping! 19:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Userspace draft moved into mainspace

Hi,

I recently moved one of your userspace drafts into article space in order to repair a Cut and Paste move than an editor had performed earlier. You can read the notice on our administrators' noticeboard here. They copied the editable text from your draft, pasted it into a new window and made an article. This is bad for us because it means that you, the creator of that content are not properly attributed. In repairing the move I had the option of either simply deleting the content from article space or moving your draft page over their article. Since the draft seemed good enough to be an article, I chose to move your draft page over their article.

This is reversible! You can view your draft as it was when you last edited it by clicking on the page history and viewing the revision which bears your name. If you feel that the draft does not belong in mainspace, contact me or any other admin and we will simply move the article into your userspace and delete the redirect. You can reverse the move yourself if you choose, but please remember to place a speedy deletion template (such as {{db-house}} or {{Db-r2}}) on the resulting redirect from the article to your subpage.

I'm sorry that your work got mixed up like this. Please let me know if there are any problems or if you need help with anything. Protonk (talk) 06:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

20 things you never knew about Wisden

Thing No.4 Tintin 03:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

John Arlott

Hi John. A major omission from my cricket book collection is Arlott on Cricket but I've just spotted a good condition copy from a reputable seller on eBay for £1-30 plus a couple of quid postage. Definitely a bargain, I'd say, and I'll take it with me when I go on holiday in a couple of weeks time. Whenever I endure the present cacophony on TMS, I often think how good John Arlott was. All the best. --Jack | ^{talk page} 05:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the above and the reverting, I've left my own warning alongside yours. Hopefully the use can be engaged in discussion. If not, the constant reverting to a version which violates WP:CITE, WP:BLP and WP:NOV can be classed as vandalism without we ourselves falling foul of WP:OWN. I'm watching the page to see what happens next. --SGGH ^ping! 02:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

We had our holiday in Windermere this week and I took Arlott's book with me to read in the evenings. It is very enjoyable and there is some excellent source material in it, especially the chapter about Gary Sobers, which I want to use. I think the one about Alresford is very good too but I believe you've already covered that on here. We had a great holiday, lovely weather, but back to work on Monday! All the best. --Jack | ^{talk page} 10:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

WG and the Wanderers

Well, as there is a citation, it seems fair enough but it's very odd that none of his biographers picked it up. I'm afraid my habitual suspicion of IP addresses was unjustified this time. The Wanderers folded in 1881 after their halcyon days in the 1870s. WG lived at Earl's Court from Feb 1875 until October or November 1877; then at Acton from about Sept 1878 until the end of 1879, just after he qualified as a doctor. The dates and personal circumstances comply. The Wanderers was essentially based at Battersea but did, as the name suggests, wander. So, WG could have played for them at the end of the 1874–75 season and through the 1875–76 and 1876–77 seasons until the start of the 1877–78 season. He could have returned for the 1878–79 season and played till midway through the 1879–80 season. As he couldn't really pursue his normal rural practices (e.g., running with the dogs) while he lived in London, it is feasible that he sought another winter activity to keep fit and, after all, there are several famous football clubs which were formed by cricket clubs for the purpose of keeping the players fit in winter. --Jack | ^{talk page} 04:23, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Given WG's reputation for gamesmanship, I dread to think what he got up to on a football field. I just read Arlott's piece on WG's report of Elysian cricket. I bet he's in the Elysian Leeds United team too! No, that can't be right: Leeds must be in the other place. --Jack | ^{talk page} 04:50, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Alan Gibson

I can't find a source for saying Gibson took his own life so I have taken the reference out. I am sure I have read it somewhere as I can recall how saddened I was. However, you are right, I should not have put it in unless I can show it to be true. Thank you for pointing this out. --John Price (talk) 09:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: List of County Championship winners

To be completely honest with you, the main reason I didn't ask for comment was that originally, and indeed until yesterday itself, I wasn't planning on removing the list from the main County Championship page. It was only when I'd put my list up, and was looking around other competitions to see how they did it that I discovered pretty much none of them had a list of winners. Personally I'd be more in favour of a shorter list of recent winners, with a link to the full list; but then the promotion/relegation table seems to do that. I'd be happy for the list to return on the main page, and merely link to the List for more details? (Yes, this is exactly why it seems discussion was necessary before hand. Apologies.) Harrias (talk) 09:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Have posted a comment there now, look forward to your input :D Harrias (talk) 09:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: London Counties cat

Excellent point regarding the category, and something I'll get to as soon as I can. Unfortunately I'm away from home on a work course at the moment, and have limited access to the internet. I'll probably be able to get to it towards the end of the week. Thanks for the spot though. Harrias (talk) 16:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've now added a brief description. Have a gander and feel free to make any further clarifications you feel are needed. Harrias (talk) 17:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Bridge

Hello, Jhall1. You have new messages at Krenakarore's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Krenakarore (talk) 20:25, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Lansdown Cricket Club

Yeah, he was groundsman there at the same time I think. Have a fair bit to write about it, but the United-Liverpool match has stolen my interest for a while! Harrias (talk) 14:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

RE: Arlott

Have reverted and another warn. If he doesn't engage in constructive conversation with one of us, he can be warned for vandalism. Perhaps we can take a unified report to WP:COI or WP:AN/I. SGGH ^ping! 20:59, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Your work is currently at FTC

• Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/The Invincibles/archive1 YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles Featured topic drive:one left) 02:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

RE: Sammy Woods

Crack on, my friend. :) SGGH ^ping! 06:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep an eye on the article, but am no expert on him: slightly before my time! Kind regards. Johnlp (talk) 14:46, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Bob Willis/GA1

Hi JH. Would you be able to take a brief look at the above, and see if you could pop the moment of leading wicket taker and/or surpassing Ian Botham (and/or being surpassed in turn) as you seem to be more knowledgeable than I. In the mean time, I'll try to accommodate the other suggestions. Cheers, SGGH ^ping! 11:23, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Gibson's Cricket Captains

Yes, it was your recommendation that swung it! When you mentioned it, I kept noticing it cropping up in a lot of the stuff I was reading. I was trying to make up my mind about getting it when I saw it very cheap in a 2nd hand bookshop. A brilliant book! I've used it in a few of the articles I'm working on (which tend to be obscure Yorkshire ones from before the war, although I've been expanding Jardine a lot and I've used it there too). Also, I've added a ref to your part about the professional captains as someone might well challenge it if the article ever goes any further. It's a bit of an obscure ref but it does the job. I don't think that Hawke comes out of any of this very well as it seems he just got cold feet. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:31, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated matter, I noticed a while ago that you have an interest in Surrey and meant to mention this but never got round to it. Do you have anything on M.R. Jardine, Douglas's father? (except what is in his Wisden obituary) He has no article which is a shame. I've got bits and pieces: there's some in Jardine's biography by Christopher Douglas and bits in Wilde's Ranji biography. Do you have any more? Ditto with Jack Crawford. All I know is what's in his Wisden obit and some pieces from 1905-1910 Wisdens from the Wisden anthology about him at school and his falling out with the committee. His article could be expanded quite a bit and generally tidied and referenced. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for edits. I'm hoping to work on Crawford (and Malcolm Jardine) in the not-too-distant future. Although I've got a list of Yorkshire cricketers I'd like to work through first. Must get my priorities straight! :) --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Frindall

I think this is pretty important, particular as the new editor of PCA has gone with the official line. Apart from the Hunte business in the 1929-30 WI series(Long resolved) it's the only time test statistics have come under attack except from the ROW 1970 series. Those points could actually go under 1 heading. What do you think? Variations in Tests stas would be too small. (There used to be a problem over the 1938 Tent Bridge Test as well, a mistranscribed score which actually remains in that wisden)KestevenBullet (talk) 07:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that a separate article "Variations in Test Match Statistics" would be justified. I don't think that it matters if it's short. And you could add something on the 1970 England v RoW series, which the TCCB promoted as Tests at the time and which for a number of years thereafter Wisden and some other authorities accepted as Tests. I don't think that such material belongs in the "Variations in First-class Cricket Statistics" article, as the f-c status of the matches involved is not in question. JH (talk page) 08:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Tests

I see your point. Of course there is the original status of the 1929-30 WI series. They were styled 'representative matches.' SA also gave caps for the rogue matches in the 80's. There is also a case for Variations in List A because several of the county statisticians include Fennar Trophy etc in their records. I must tell you that Phil Baily who is behind List A, has blind spot on the Fenner. At last count six counties were issuing it in their records section.I do not know how to set up a template. Could you help?KestevenBullet (talk) 12:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

If you mean that you don't know how to create an article, then if you just type the desired name of the article into the Search box and press Go, it should tell you that the article does not exist and give you the option of crerarting it. If you have any trouble with that, then get back to me. JH (talk page) 17:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

ThanksKestevenBullet (talk) 19:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Gibson

Thanks. I have a birthday coming up and may treat myself if none of my offspring take the hint... I do hope it includes the article he produced after an almost entirely blank day at Derby in which he mused on the unlikelihood of a revival in Derbyshire's cricket fortunes unless there were substantial changes to the rules about allowable words in the Scrabble games in the Derbyshire press box. Johnlp (talk) 19:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Gibson's report on that day is published in The Times issue of Saturday 8 June 1974 page 15. The day was short of cricket, not so much due to the weather, more because of Surrey's victory by an innings - match over by 1.10pm . I too have enjoyed many Gibson 'pieces' over the years, so am pleased to see that a collection of them has been published. Think we're pretty fortunate here in Tasmania - a reader's ticket with the State Library provides free access to The Times digital archive !

RossRSmith (talk) 09:42, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

The offspring delivered! I have the book. A joy to be savoured in small helpings across the summer. Johnlp (talk) 17:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Clayton

Thanks for the note: I've reffed it. Colin Atkinson said of Clayton: "He wouldn't do what he was told." Johnlp (talk) 19:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Douglas Jardine FAC

As a Surrey chap, I wondered if you might be interested in this review for Jardine. It hasn't had many customers yet, so any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. --Sarastro1 (talk) 10:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Jack Hobbs

Thanks for your offer of help which would be much appreciated. Apart from WG himself, I'd say The Master was probably the best there's ever been: just the man to have in your team when you have to bat on a bad wicket. I've just bought Ronald Mason's book from eBay. I've never read it before. I've also bought John Arlott's book, though I have read that before. I'll increase my involvement with the Hobbs article soon as first I need to add more to Sutcliffe. Regards. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 05:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Reviewer granted

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 05:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Yorkshire Captaincy Crisis

Hi. The sentence as it stood was more of a holding job until I could get to it properly, and I've put it back. I'm trying to give the article a good copy-edit following a (partial) peer review, with a view to FAC. However, I'm unable to spend much time on wiki until next week at the earliest, so other little glitches may appear over the next day or two! Cheers. --Sarastro1 (talk) 07:48, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Sutcliffe's graph

I'm surprised how old that graph is. It was created in 2005 by Raven4x4 who used to do a lot of work around WP:CRIC and I think he produced quite a lot of these Excel-based graphs. Fortunately, the file version explains that the blue line is a useful indicator of his current form at the time of each innings (i.e., his average over his previous 10 innings). Regards. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 04:28, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Herbert Sutcliffe

Hi John. Re your mails to me, I know you are interested in this article and, now that I've reached a point where I need to take a step back, I wonder if you'd like to peer review it. I'm happy to discuss any questions or issues might arise and if you have any additional sources, I'd be more than happy to see some additional content or views. I have relied mainly on Alan Hill's book as that is the most comprehensive biography available to me but I've tried to get as much as I can from other sources too. All the best. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 13:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, John. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 18:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Variations in TC

Thanks but the point is made in the earlier bit.KestevenBullet (talk) 14:02, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Quotes

You're right. A direct quote must be verbatim even if it contains a misquote, if you see what I mean. The difference is minimal so I won't add anything re what Bradman said to Wisden. It's a good example of how writers lift a particular statement from a source like Wisden and then, intentionally or not, change it. I've noticed it often and I think most writers probably just "get the gist" and use that without checking the precise wording of the original. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 04:46, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Eric Hill

Thanks for the tip. I've just been out and bought the paper and will use some of the wartime stuff today (unless you get there first). Nice to see some of our words on his cricket career being used and only minimally edited towards the end of the Telegraph obit. Johnlp (talk) 11:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Gosh. I go out for the evening and it gets done. If only the rest of my life was so orderly. Johnlp (talk) 00:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Re: List of cricket grounds

Thanks! I'm tinkering with the Test section at the moment, proving frustrating! I've added a reference column, I'm going to try and put the year it was first used for first-class cricket in with the county teams coloum (maybe need to change the heading for that one). The problem comes with the amount of teams who have used the ground, which ends up using an insane amount of room. It might be better for me to just include the current county team or teams like the Gentlemen and the Surrey Club who have used the ground multiple times, so as to keep that section compact. Feel free to have a play with the Test grounds section! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 21:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Right, I'm nearly there. There are some ground details I need to fill in, but I have (well I think I have!) every ground in England and Wales where a major match has been played. Added a paragraph explaining (which I need to expand on some more) each section and checked the references. Should be done by Sunday! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Done it, all 482 venues on the list. AssociateAffiliate (talk) 10:19, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Old Ebor and an unrelated matter

I can probably do a stub on Old Ebor. Even Jim Kilburn doesn't have an article! But I have so little info, a stub is all I can do I'm afraid. On an unrelated matter, you seem like you may have a huge cricket library. I'm trying to get my head around the whole image thing at the moment. My main problem is finding when some very well known old images were first published to get around the pd thing. As I understand it, no matter how old a photo is, if it was not published before 1923, it is not public domain. Soooo... If you have any pre-1923 books, a trawl of images would be very helpful! --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

I've had a quick go at the article and called it Alfred Pullin rather than Old Ebor. I found something at ODNB as well as the Wisden obituary, but that's all I've got for the moment. Feel free to stick anything from Swanton. --Sarastro1 (talk) 10:57, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

As a matter of interest, what were Swanton's anecdotes? --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! --Sarastro1 (talk) 09:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Re: WCA

I got the information from the picture on wikicommons. The person who uploaded the picture said in the description: "This is the birthplace of the Women's Cricket Association, formed in 1926 by a group of enthusiasts after a cricket holiday in Malvern. They ran matches throughout England and in their first season staged 49 games and a cricket festival here in Colwall" They also left a link, which I presume had a source for it, which linked to the Yorkshire Cricket Board site; helpfully the link is a dead one. I've included the information in the article, but women's cricket seems damn hard to research! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 20:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

List of cricket grounds in England and Wales

Just seen your comments on the talk page. On the Gentlemen front, I have been considering removing them from the article based on the exact reason you have put down; that being the venues were neutral and the Gentlemen as such did not have a home ground. Do you think removing all mention of the Gentlemen and Players teams from the list would be the best thing to do (plus it would reduce article size!). On splitting the article, I think it should be kept together for completeness purposes. AssociateAffiliate (talk) 11:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I've near enough done all the grounds now, every section has a bluelink to one (some need are pre-existing and need work doing). About the gentlemen v players... each ground they played at was pretty much a neutral one, thus maybe they shouldn't appear on page as a 'home' team. So I agree with getting rid of them, but then it crossed my mind that adding footnotes would in all probability increase the size of the page quite dramatically! What to do??? AssociateAffiliate (talk) 17:25, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The Master

Yes, the article is long overdue for redemption as it was in a bit of a state and obviously has nowhere near enough content. I've decdied to start at the very beginning with his early life and then progress chronologically. If you want to join me and pick up a later phase, that would be great as I anticipate this will become as big as WG and Herbert. I'm more interested in philately articles at present but I've decided to work on Hobbs too to give me a change of scene.  :-) Regards. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 21:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I've got both those books. I think Arlott's is by far the better so if you can get hold of a copy, I'd recommend it. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 10:20, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I see what you mean. It wasn't an intentional revert. I have my own copy of the article in TextPad and have been working on that. I didn't notice the bot update this time. It will be around again in a day or two so I'll take a fresh workcopy after it's done. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 20:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

My edition of Mason does have an index and you need page 190.  :-) ----Jack | ^{talk page} 18:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Nice one. And I promise I've copied it into my working version.  :-) My edition of Mason, by the way, is the one issued by the Sportsman's Book Club in 1961. I gather there is even a much later reprint: c.1988. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 20:09, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Hobbs obituary

On closer examination, the two articles are very similar and the obituary actually carries a caveat to the effect that much of its content is taken from an earlier article in the Manchester Guardian!! Surely Wisden must have had someone who could write an original obituary? Ah, well. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 18:40, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Sammy Woods

Yeah, aiming to add plenty more! Put what I had up, as although it isn't finished, it was a fair bit better than what was already there. The clean up tags were annoying our friends at Wikipedia:WikiProject Somerset too, which sped me up a little. I've concentrated primarily on the 'factual' matters to build the framework of the article, and am planning to add in the more 'anecdotal' parts toward the end, slotting them in where they add the most value. Any help you can offer would be invaluable. I think his early life (up to the end of Cambridge University maybe?) will probably warrant an article of its own in the end. Harrias ^talk 21:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Cap in hand...

I know you are not an FAC chap, but I need a little favour if possible. The review for Bosanquet mentions it is a little light on print sources (I've mainly used old newspaper and Wisden stuff). Do you have any general/Golden Age books which mention anything useful about him at all? Even if it just rehashes what is already there, at least it's a different source. Thanks. --Sarastro1 (talk) 10:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the additions. Is there anything in Barclays which puts his achievements into context or anything like that? --Sarastro1 (talk) 11:19, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Interview request

"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Cricket for an article for The Signpost. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Thanks and I take this opportunity to wish you a very Happy New Year! – SMasters (talk) 07:11, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The Cricketers of My Time

Yes, I've thought for a long time that it's been a major omission. I had flu recently and reading was about all I could manage to do, so this was one of my choices, and I got the idea for the article when I read the villainous Mr Mote's description of the many editions it has gone through. Then I thought of including a list of players and that was enough to provide momentum. I've never done an article about a book before so it is a bit of a challenge as I don't want to seem to be reviewing it and I'm not altogether sure what should be included.

If you've any ideas, please do pitch in. I'm doing a bit more on it at the moment around some of the key references he provided like the superstar analogy and the monster bat story. I think they will add some flavour and show what an imporatnat source he remains.

All the best for 2011 (a bit late). ----Jack | ^{talk page} 10:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the Rev. John Mitford's family connections but, if you see John Mitford re the Navy man, he is mentioned there and in proximity with Mary. And there is more in William Mitford who was a cousin of the reverend but it says there that Mary was distant relative. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 21:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Re the forensic examination, it is a bit tricky to get the meaning across. I've had another shot at it. See what you think. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 17:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Found a statement by John Arlott in 1957, included in Arlott on Cricket, which emphasises the book's importance and quality. I've added that to the lead. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 20:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Julian calendar

I notice that in History of cricket to 1725, I added a qualification of the date such as "(Julian calendar date, equating to the year 1680 in the Gregorian calendar)" which provides more explanation than simply saying "(Julian date)". What do you think? ----Jack | ^{talk page} 20:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the "autopatrolled" permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please remember:

• This permission does not give you any special status or authority
• Submission of inappropriate material may lead to its removal
• You may wish to display the {{Autopatrolled}} top icon and/or the {{User wikipedia/autopatrolled}} userbox on your user page
• If, for any reason, you decide you do not want the permission, let me know and I can remove it

If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 18:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Albert Craig

Hi. This is where I found date and place of birth:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a912545413&fulltext=713240928

Regards Plucas58 (talk) 18:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Walter Gilbert

Thanks for the catch, a slightly embarrassing error! Have you come across the Green book? It's got some good stuff in it. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:37, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Gold Cup (bridge) categorization

Thanks for your comments; please see my response. Further comments? Newwhist (talk) 15:26, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

English cricket team in Australia in 1954–55‎: Hutton and Cowdrey

Given that you've mentioned that Hutton bet on Wilson scoring more runs than Cowdrey, it might be worth redressing the balance by mentioning that Hutton seems to have treated Cowdrey very well - indeed with much more consideration than senior players such as Bedser. I know that Cowdrey said in his autobiography that, as a young player on his first tour, he was very grateful at the way Hutton took him under his wing, especially when his father died during the course of the tour (or it might have been during the sea voyage out). I'd dig out a reference, but I have a heavy feverish cold today and don't feel like doing anything too taxing. JH (talk page) 18:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't recall reading anything that Hutton treated Cowdrey better than the other young players. Keith Miller wrote that Hutton compained that the young players didn't ask him for advice and that they disliked his grumpy moods. Graveney wrote Hutton would just look straight through you as if you weren't there and by all accounts he was pretty wound up during the tour. Cowdrey's father died on the voyage out and it is mentioned in MCC tour of Australia in 1954–55 if you want to add something there. It also has Douglas Jardine giving Cowdrey some farewell advice and Hutton telling the young players that they had little chance of playing in the Tests. Regards,Philipjelley (talk) 18:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I haven't read that and I am loathe to put it in without a direct ref as it was against Hutton's character as usually described. I'll look up Tyson when I get home tomorrow, as he mentions MCC receiving the news in Eye of the Typhoon.Philipjelley (talk) 19:19, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I have added "The 22-year-old had received news of his father's death at the start of the tour, but soldiered on, thanks to the advice and encouragement from his young teammate Peter May and father figure and captain Len Hutton". That seems to sum it up.Philipjelley (talk) 19:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

If you are interested in MCC you may like this piece of purple prose regards his 307 vs South Australia on the MCC tour of Australia in 1962–63. "His cover-drive was still his chief glory, but other shots were scarcely inferior: the glory of the moon and stars as opposed to the rich glory of the sun. There seemed to be no effort about his work. With a short back-swing he persuaded the ball through the gaps, guiding it with an iron hand inside the velvet glove which disguised his power and purpose." Johnny MoyesPhilipjelley (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Jack Crawford (cricketer)

I've finally finished what was supposed to be a quick job. I think i've covered everything, but another pair of eyes would be appreciated, especially on the Surrey details. I'm probably going to put it up at GAN in a day or two (although I know that's not your thing!). Some images of cricketers would be good; I wanted one of Leveson-Gower, but I couldn't find one so I had to go for Lord Alverstone. I don't suppose you have a nice pre-1923 image of Shrimp going spare??? --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:53, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. One point is that these two matches (I've specified which ones now) were apparently the only two fixtures Repton played against schools: this comes from the Wisden school report from those years. I agree about the Oval and removed it but I took out the comment about Alverstone's death as it is not really reflected in the sources; I might add it in a summary of what happened to the main players such as Leveson Gower, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth it, or where it should go. But I think placing it next to his return after the dispute was over may be synthesis. I'll stick it up at GAN later tonight! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Re Surrey committee: I suspect you are right, but we still run the risk of synthesis I think. However, do you have anything on the Surrey committee of the time which mentions some of their enlightened stuff, as we could easily add a section about this and include the death of Alverstone. And I think it reads OK in terms of chronology at the moment, as all the sources are very vague as to when they made peace. --Sarastro1 (talk) 11:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh dear! I changed it (I hope it's not too repetitive now, which was my main reason for unintentionally promoting Cardus!) to having two writers. To be honest, I much prefer Cardus although he is slightly frowned upon now for his flights of fancy. But if you read his actual match reports, he was a very good reporter of cricket as well. However, I've never read a Swanton match report, to be fair, and the only real work of his I own are some of his obituaries, which are very good. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Alpin Thomson

I couldn't find any direct connection to Scotland that would account for his qualification for the Scottish rugby team, and was going to look further into his father. Thomson (without a "p") is a "fairly Scottish" name, I think: not sure I've ever come across anyone called "Alpin" before. I presume his qualification for Somerset was from his parents having moved there, which would, I assume, have been between 1902 (which is, from memory, when the individual states of Australia united to form the single country, so Alpin Sr's job would presumably have disappeared) and 1916, when his sister got married. I shall delve further. The Wellington story, btw, is told of both Peter Randall Johnson and Tom Lowry. Johnlp (talk) 20:14, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and George Thomson was a minister in Wilson and Callaghan governments and was very Scottish indeed. And the Lord Thomson of Fleet that I used to work for a long time ago was Canadian, but his forename was Kenneth, which is fairly Scottish (his father was Roy Thomson, who owned The Times). Our Alpin Thomson's father appears to have been Alpin Fowler Thomson; the Western Australia records that are online have him down as ?1858-1900, but we know from The Times announcement in 1916 that he was alive well beyond 1900, so maybe he left the colony in 1900. Interestingly, in the British Guiana records there is a note of an Alpin Fowler marrying an Anne Margaret Thomson in the first half of the 19th century; the note may be wrong of course, or perhaps Ms Thomson had the money that Master Fowler married into... on condition he change his name. I shall look further. Johnlp (talk) 20:37, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Re Woods: Yes, it's a bit lifeless now, isn't it? You don't get much idea of the charisma of the man which everyone testified to. Not sure how much time I'm going to have in the next few weeks: I've just emerged blinking from a huge amount of RL stuff but can already see the next lot piling up for me from the end of this week. Johnlp (talk) 21:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Barnes

Thanks for your message. It's still early days, of course, and I appreciate any help. I've certainly seen a reference to "Barney" but not sure where now, so I'll see if one reappears as I read around. The league cricket one did trouble me as I expected to find a generic article about league cricket and found only specific ones. I think you're right and I'll link to the specifics. --Mykleavens (talk) 19:32, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Surrey CCC

No trouble at all. I have a fair bit of free time on my hands at the moment and feel as though my last little project on here is as complete as it'll ever be, so I may try to spend some time on Surrey. After all, the Surrey article should be the best county cricket club one there is, right?  Omg †  osh  22:49, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

It's really no trouble. Do be bold and make any changes you think appropriate.  Omg †  osh  20:10, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Tony Forrester

Hi, I have spotted the excellent contributions that you have made to Andrew Robson. I am not trying to create extra work for others but I wonder if I might just mention Tony Forrester in case you feel moved to do anything there? Bridgeplayer (talk) 13:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Great work! Thanks! Bridgeplayer (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Hobbs and Sutcliffe

Hope you are well! Prompted mainly by this, I was having a look on the articles on Hobbs and Sutcliffe that Blackjack did a lot of work on. As he is no longer around, it seems a shame to let all that work go to waste and I was debating tacking Sutcliffe to bring the length down and sort out the images (most of which are not PD-US unfortunately). I thought it may be worth trying for GA and then FA for it as it is fairly comprehensive. It's more a case of what needs to come out. Also, I know he started Hobbs and then stopped and that you were working with him. I recently got the new Hobbs biography (I haven't read it all yet, though!) and, again, was toying with the idea of working on that as I now seem to have somehow acquired all three of Hobbs' biographies! It seems a shame that Hobbs in particular is not at least a GA as he is such an important figure. I know you don't bother with GAs or FAs, but what do you think about working on these two articles? Any suggestions? --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of centuries in women's Test cricket/archive1

I believe I've addressed your comment on the review. Could you take a look again and provide any further feedback? cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 07:48, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

That introduced a typo, which I've taken the liberty of correcting. Otherwise I'm happy with the revised wording. Unfortunately I don't have time right at the moment to read through the whole article to see if I have any further feedback. I might be able to tomorrow (Sunday). JH (talk page) 08:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, I don't know how I missed that! Perhaps I should stop moving stuff around and just write afresh to avoid these errors. Sure, there's no hurry, looking forward to your feedback as I'll be getting the ODI list up in a couple of days and any feedback on this will be useful for that too. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 09:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Mold

You are right! It says this a couple of times in Cricinfo articles, but a check on CricketArchive shows that it's nonsense. At the end of 1901, Richardson had 1,870 wickets. At the end of Mold's last match, he had 1,854 wickets. Even if you take the time Mold was first called, Richardson had 1,640 while Mold had 1,577. So whichever way you look at it, Cricinfo is wrong. I've taken out the claim! --Sarastro1 (talk) 11:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

More on Jack Crawford...

I'm thinking about sticking this up at FAC after taking it to PR in the next few weeks. One thing that concerns me slightly is a lack of breadth in the sources; there's a bit from Swanton and, indirectly, from Cardus (any idea where he wrote that?), but the rest comes from Wisden and Benny Green. Is there anything in any of the Surrey histories? Even just a sentence or two, or comments about the "dispute" may give it a little more depth, even if it doesn't say much new. If there is a bit, we can be a bit selective and use it to source some of the stuff already in there. This kind of thing is actually quite important at FAC, believe it or not, to make sure that all the relevant authorities are included. However, if there is nothing else out there, we can't include it. But if you could have a quick check, I'd appreciate it. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:38, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Anything would be good, just for breadth. I've checked the following: Wisden obituary and CoY article, Cricinfo page, Times obituary, the Benny Green book, the Wisden 1900-1940 Anthology, and the Hobbs book by McKinstry. I've also looked at Birley's Social History which doesn't really add to the picture. The Lemmon book looks to be the most likely for a Surrey POV, so that would be good, as would any juicy Arlott quotes. If Cardus wrote the World of Cricket profile, the article needs changing as it attributes opinions to Swanton; I may change the ref to make Cardus the author and Swanton the editor. I suspect the chap who put the stuff in did not do us any favours if it is cited incorrectly! I think the article overall is in decent shape and I doubt there is much more to go in; it may just need a few quotes and opinions to round it off. And there's no rush; I was thinking of PR next week and maybe FAC by the end of October. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:34, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I think it may be better to change to your edition. Mykleavens seems to have vanished, and if any questions came up over sourcing, it would be better to have your edition cited as it could be easily checked. --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:42, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Thinking about the best way to cite BWOC, it may be worth citing the author and chapter in the book (i.e. Cardus, Neville, "Whatever the chapter is called", in Swanton, E. W. (ed) etc. I think the citation template does it more elegantly!). Could you stick in the chapter/section titles where appropriate and we can tidy it up later if it's needed. Again, no rush for this one. Thanks! --Sarastro1 (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

List of official County Championship winners

Thanks for paying attention! I knew what I meant, but did not say what I meant! I've now changed it to "all but two of the founding member clubs winning by.." which is what I intended! Hope that make more sense. Harrias ^talk 19:28, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

History of cricket to 1725

The evidence for a Weald origin is non-existent and it's based on speculation. I know I read a book by John Arlott many years ago in which he suggested the Weald, possibly one he wrote with Fred Trueman. On the other hand, I was once involved in a discussion with someone who insisted that cricket began in Guildford with John Derrick's schoolboys! It's not even certain that it was originally a children's game either, although Derrick's statement and the definition in the Cotgrave dictionary strongly suggest that it was. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 20:09, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Learie

Much obliged for the copy-editing. It's always good for more eyes on it, particularly having spent a while hammering away at it. And I've got Crawford up at peer review at the moment, so we'll see how that one goes. I might be in touch if there are any problems! Thanks. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I meant to say yesterday, thanks for doing the GA review. I didn't think you went for GA stuff, but it's great to have a really knowledgable eye at this stage. My main worry to be honest is over his non-cricket stuff as I'm not too sure how it all reads, not being a particular expertise of mine. Feel free to be harsh as I hope (eventually, but quite a way down the line) to take it to FAC. --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:43, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

GA is usually just one reviewer: it is FA where lots of people chip in. At GA, the person who starts the review is the person who passes or fails it. Sometimes, but very rarely, others become involved, but it is usually a solo effort. While it would be great for you to review it, if you don't want to be the one to do it all or won't have time, one of us could ping someone to sort it out: there are a few admins at GA who may know what to do and could "undo" this as the full review. I know a chap! I'm fine either way, its up to you. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

That's fine with me! I'd rather a good review than a really quick one. These things are recommended to be done in 7 days, but I believe the new "limit" is 30 days and then people chase us with big sticks. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Many (but not all) reviewers fix minor things and only raise it at the review if it is unclear or a matter of opinion. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure how much of Learie you've got left to do, but when you are done I'd appreciate a quick look at Len Hutton. I've nominated it for Peer Review here and any comments would be appreciated. If you haven't time, don't worry. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

For the record, the people with big sticks have arrived! --Sarastro1 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I've replied to the final points and left one question. If we are getting close to wrapping this up, the instructions for what to do next are at the top of the page at WP:GAN. Thanks for everything so far. --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

For the article to pass, all you need to do is to state the "topic" and page number within the template, so that it would look like this: {{GA|~~~~~|topic=Sports and recreation|page=1}}. You put this in place of {{GA nominee|22:02, 29 November 2011 (UTC)|nominator=[[User:Sarastro1|Sarastro1]] ([[User talk:Sarastro1|talk]])|page=1|subtopic=Sports and recreation|status=onreview|note=}} , which is there now. You then stick [[Learie Constantine|Constantine, Learie]] in the cricket section of this page and put {{Good article}} somewhere on the article itself.

I admit reviewing can be a pain, but I've quite got into it myself as you learn all sorts of nonsense from reading other articles. But, yes there is quite a lot of bureaucracy which you have to get used to, unfortunately, and it may be better spent writing! --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

GAs are only listed once. Not sure about the other projects, but I don't think there is a diplomacy one. I'll see if I can add law and politics. Thanks for all your help, even if you probably regret starting!! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I added politics, but I'm not sure I can add law in all conscience, as it seems to be heavyweight law stuff and Learie, whatever his many merits, was hardly a big-hitting lawyer! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:39, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

And even more Crawford...

If you wouldn't mind casting your eye on the peer review of Crawford, the reviewer makes some very good comments for improving the article with a view to FAC. He is an exceptionally good FA reviewer, knows what kind of things need to be in there and is very knowledgeable on cricket. His main two points are about reaction to his selection for South Africa in 1905 and his "forgiveness" by Surrey in 1919. Do you have anything on either? I note there is a book by Plum Warner on the 1905 tour, but it seems to be impossible to get hold of. The British Library will happily send a scanned copy for around £30, which I am reluctant to do for obvious reasons! There also seems to be a book on the 1907-8 tour but same problems apply. The Times makes very little comment on any of it, so that is no help either. Suggestions appreciated! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Kilburn

Thanks for the kind words. I will add something from that article, but I noticed it was from the recent Kilburn anthology book. I can get hold of that in the next few days and will see if anything more can be added from there. In the meantime, that list of books (and anything else you may have) would be great. --Sarastro1 (talk) 18:39, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Iain Macleod

Rummaging through some old files, I found a picture of Iain Macleod I took on an aged polaroid camera in the 1970 general election. I added it to his article, and then spotted that you had had a hand in editing it, as he was a bridge player. Small world... Johnlp (talk) 19:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Jack Meyer (educator and cricketer)

Thanks for the note - I have tidied that new entry slightly Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} ^(Whisper...) 10:24, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Leg before wicket

I've had a go at something different and re-written this article. But it's such a damned complicated law with such an odd history, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look and see what is missing and how much sense it makes. Any comments welcome as always! --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)