User talk:Jhall1

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Archived messages: /archive Jun,06-Dec,06 /archive Jan,07-Jun,07 /archive Jul,07-Jun,09 /archive Jul,09-Dec,12

Mr Jeacocke[edit]

The redlink in Fender was annoying me a little, so I created Alfred Jeacocke and managed to get in two juicy scandalous tales, both concerning PGH of course. Feel free to add or tweak anything I've missed, as Surrey is not my strong point. Though I have got hold of Lemmon's Surrey history as you can never have too many cricket books... Sarastro1 (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Kilburn[edit]

I thought that as well, but there is literally nothing about that side of his writing in any of the sources to which I have access. I'll do another trawl, but I'm not confident. If push came to shove, I'd take that out as we have no information on it. Sarastro1 (talk) 10:35, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Good thinking. I've left a note there, more in hope than expectation. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:01, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Leyland[edit]

I've not checked Barclay's yet, but as you may have gathered, I picked up a cheap copy for myself, so I can have a look there. But I'd be grateful if you could check Thompson for anything in there. Thanks! Sarastro1 (talk) 17:35, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Much obliged for that. I don't suppose you have a page reference for each quote? Sarastro1 (talk) 20:19, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
To be honest, the original article was cribbed wholesale from one of his obituaries (either the Cricketer or Wisden, I can't remember); it was re-worded, but the stories and content were almost identical. So maybe the obituary writer used Thompson. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Spot on with Weigall. I didn't name him in the article on the grounds of obscurity and as he wasn't exactly a top-level critic! Sarastro1 (talk) 17:56, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Surrey Club cricketers[edit]

Hello! I hope to get round to creating it, however each time I've googled "Surrey Club cricket" it brings up the obvious result of Surrey CCC :/ I don't want to create a pointless stub which just mentions how many first-class matches it played, some background would be nice! I think it has enough potential and notability to exist independently of the Surrey county cricket teams article :) Howzat?Out!Out!Out! (talk) 15:19, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I've always imagined it as a posh gentlemen's club of some sort! I'll drop BlackJack a line :) Howzat?Out!Out!Out! (talk) 21:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Hi John. I've replied to AA about the Surrey Club on my talk page but my investigation inevitably brought up the enigmatic "Mr Houghton" who was engaged by Montpelier Cricket Club in 1845 to create The Oval. I know nothing else about this gentleman, not even his first name. Do you have any info about him in books about Surrey? Thanks. ----Jack | talk page 06:40, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

It is possible that the W. Houghton in this scorecard is the same man? ----Jack | talk page 06:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I've managed to find something about Mr Houghton in David Lemmon's excellent The History of Surrey County Cricket Club (see Surrey County Cricket Club Bibliography section for full citation details). Since the man's initial matches, it's almost certainly the chap in the scorecard. "From the outset The Oval was managed by W. Houghton, a chemist from Brixton Hill, who had been President of the Montpelier Club. In the initial euphoria his management had been accepted as giving all that could be desired, but by the beginning of the 1849 season, with the club £70 in debt, it was apparent that all was not well and there was disagreement between the management and the Club itself".(p18) "Hon Frederick Ponsonby forwarded the idea that the Club's financial crisis... could be solved if six memberts were allowed to take out life-membership at £12 each. The idea was eagerly accepted... Houghton, however, was antagonistic to the Club, and he was conducting affairs in a way that many found offensive. He staged walking matches, poultry shows and other events which lowered the character of the ground and which were not to the liking of those living close by... There were moves afoot to build on The Oval, and a bill was prepared by the solicitor of the Duchy of Cornwall to that effect. It was Prince Albert, acting for the young Prince of Wales, who intervened, and The Oval was saved... John Burrup... had succeeded Denison as secretary in 1848... He realised that the only way in which Surrey cricket could survive was to rid itself of the association with Houghton... Under his direction the executive resolved to play no more matches at The Oval and began negotiations for a ground near Coldharbour Lane, Brixton. Houghton realised he was beaten and was glad to come to terms. He handed over the lease to C. H. Hoare, A. Marshall and Henry Mortimer, acting on behalf of the Surrey County Club who obtained a new agreement for 21 years. This dated from 1855..."(p19) There's no mention of the "Surrey Club", but I'm wondering if Houghton might have set that up as a rival to Surrey CCC. However since it started in 1846, when apparently all was still sweetness and light between him and SCCC, probably not. JH (talk page) 09:40, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
That's really interesting. Trouble and strife. For a moment there, I thought I was reading about Yorkshire again! ----Jack | talk page 11:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I've now also looked up Houghton in Nick Yapp's A History of the Foster's Oval (Pelham Books, 1990, ISBN 0-7207-1925-9). His account is substantially the same as Lemmon's, but he tells us that Houghton's first name was William and that he was the Treasurer of Surrey CCC when the club was founded.(p10) He also says that the first match to be played on the Oval, on 13 May 1845, was between W. Fould's XI and W. Houghton's XI, with the first game there involving the Montpelier Club being against Clapton on 17 July. He gives the scorecard of the latter match from Lillywhite's Cricket Scores and Biographies of Celebrated Cricketers and quotes ot as saying "This is, it is believed, the first match that ever took place on Kennington Oval. The extent of the ground is 10 acres, and, as the name implies, oval in shape... during the winter of 1844-5 it was arranged that the Montpelier Club should remove to the Oval, and the Club very generously gave a large sum of money from their funds to enable the new proprietor make the new ground good for cricket by laying down with turf about 4 acres in the centre..."(p39) There's obviously material there that could be used to extend the history sections of the Surrey CCC and Oval articles as well as that on the Montpelier Club. JH (talk page) 17:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── User:CDTPP gave me these links including one fascinating photo from 1860: Lambeth and [www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=4975 British history]. As I said to him, I never thought the gasworks were that old. ----Jack | talk page 18:30, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

This scorecard from CricketArchive is the 17 July 1745 game and seems to be the earliest that CA have from The Oval. They don't have the 13 May game in their list so it looks as if no scorecard has survived. ----Jack | talk page 18:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd spotted those links from User:CDTPP on your Talk page. Fascinating stuff. I suspect you're right about the earlier scorecard not having survived. Yapp gives the later scorecard but not the earlier one. From what he quotes from Lillywhite, it seems they weren't even aware that the earlier match had taken place. JH (talk page) 18:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
No scorecard seen yet, but a search of the online British Newspaper Library archives has found the following paragraph published a few days after the 13 May match - from The [London] Standard, Monday 19 May 1845 page 3 "THE SURREY GROUND, KENNINGTON The new cricket ground, in the Oval, was opened on Tuesday with a day's play between two eleven's chosen from the members of the Montpelier Club. The day was unfavourable, but the play was very good. We may take this opportunity of stating, by way of contradiction to the statements which have appeared in some other journals, that this ground will be appropriated alone to the purposes of cricket." RossRSmith (talk) 09:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Wisden[edit]

Good to know, thanks. I haven't got round to getting it yet, but will do so very shortly. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:34, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Hobbs[edit]

It may not all make sense for a day or two. I'm trying to tidy it up to take to FAC. I'm more or less happy with the length (a few more words off wouldn't hurt with the two forked articles now) but I need to make sure it does him justice as a batsman and (for want of a better word) a "force" in cricket. I've a few sources to add to the article, and then should be ready. I'll take out that "lacks flamboyance" as I've just realised it's a load of rubbish anyway. (Forgive me if I've told you this one, but George Macaulay, not exactly a lover of batsmen, once pretty much applauded a shot that Hobbs hit off him, and praised him to the heavens whenever he hit a good shot) Sarastro1 (talk) 11:33, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully a little clearer now. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay. Real life rather hectic at the moment. On that 1919 match (it was actually his benefit game, and our old mate Jack Crawford rather than Knight), I'm not sure it is justified in the main article, as it hardly ranks with his performances in 1925, or against Australia in 1911-12, 1926 or 1927-28, or South Africa in 1909. But it is in the "later life" article, where I think it fits more comfortably. I've reworked large chunks now, and as I can't think what else to do, I'm heading for PR with a view to FA in the not-too-distant future. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:42, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Actually, on the other Jack, I recently got hold of some old Wisden reprints, and one of the early 1920s ones mentions that Crawford wasn't available as he was up north somewhere, but it rather unfortunately doesn't say why, and just laments his unavailability. I must add it to the article at some point. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:59, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Sutcliffe[edit]

Actually this one was Blackjack's, and he did a really good job on it. But I've reverted, and cited some OR of my own as I've found a source which gives his baptism date two months before our IP suggests he was born. Thanks for the heads up, it was not on my watchlist but I've added it now. Sarastro1 (talk) 16:55, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Surrey[edit]

Regarding Mahmood, the English flag is just for simplicity as to explain in the infobox would be quite a palava, wouldn't it! I know it doesn't mean much, but on the IPL pages, he's listed as English. As for Smith, I presumed he was out for the rest of the season, and assuming like most o/s players, they don't return after one season? The Madras (talk) 08:11, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah! Well I apologise, I didn't know that, I'll go and put him back in then. The Madras (talk) 08:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Mahmood - would it be better to put Pakistan as the nationality and "English qualified" in the notes? The Madras (talk) 09:27, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Wrong Shepherd![edit]

It was Don of Glamorgan who played for the Players, not David. Silly me.......! Thanks for spotting it. :-) ----Jack | talk page 22:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Jack Crawford, Part 94...[edit]

I don't know if you have access to the British Library Newspaper Archive, but I was doing some digging there on young Jack (I still hope to go for FA at some point if I can dig out a little more information and tidy it up a little more) and found, in a regional newspaper, complete copies of the 1909 correspondence between Crawford and Alverstone. I've also pinned down some more career details which I will add: he went to New Zealand as a cricket coach and then was a master at Repton when he returned to England, hence the "up North" reference in Wisden I assume. If you are interested in the letters (I doubt much of that will make it into the article), I can email you a copy. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Email sent with newspaper file attached. Hopefully... Sarastro1 (talk) 21:05, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Cranleigh -Winterfold House[edit]

Thanks for tidying up my contribution to Cranleigh -the Winterfold House article looks much better where you put it. As a cricket enthusiast have a look at EHD Sewell a page I put together recently - you may have a contribution. Sewell also played rugby. My preferred winter game. Kind regards Long Ben Every (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

"Acclaim"[edit]

Thank you, thank you! I wanted to tell them myself, but had grown too weary of the diverse cultures of Ashes pundits! Would you prefer a beer, or a cookie? Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 09:11, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Sadly I don't like beer, so I'll opt for the cookie. :) JH (talk page) 09:35, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Tom Townsend[edit]

Hi, I have noticed the nice work that you have done at Tony Forrester and thought you might be interested in this new page that I have started. The Whispering Wind (talk) 00:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Old Ebor[edit]

I think I've done what I can now, if you care to have a look. Is there anything obviously missing? Sarastro1 (talk) 22:27, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Alan Ross (disambiguation)[edit]

Should the above link appear as red link, click on it, and the page will appear nevertheless. Sometimes there's a lag with new pages. Kraxler (talk) 17:23, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Gubby[edit]

Thanks for that. Let me know of anything else you spot. Gubby's given me a fair bit of trouble, and is currently too long for my taste. But to be honest, I haven't found him as disagreeable as I expected; probably better than, say, Walter Robins or Freddie Brown. I think there have been a few, slightly unfair hatchet jobs on him, and having dug I'm none too impressed with the way Frith deals with him in the Bodyline book. Not to say I'll ever be a fan, and his role in the D'Oliveira affair and his dictatorial approach as chairman of selectors were dreadful, but still not as bad as I expected. Sarastro1 (talk) 09:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

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Bridge writers talk[edit]

Hi. During the last three weeks I have covered Category:Bridge writers in several respects. See my long report on its talk page.

I see that you have replied to some of my talk page notes. Thanks. I have not followed my Watchlist closely and have not generally noticed your replies yet. --P64 (talk) 20:25, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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