User talk:Jimp

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Proposed deletion of Salvo (artist)[edit]

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The article Salvo (artist) has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article. The nominator also raised the following concern:

All biographies of living people created after March 18, 2010, must have references.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. bpage (talk) 03:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


I'm contacting everyone who has commented but who hasn't taken an explicit Support or Oppose position (or if you did, I missed it). In the interest of bringing this discussion to resolution, it might be helpful if you could do that. Thanks. EEng (talk) 12:59, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

New Zealand English[edit]

I've answered your questions on the page. I realise you might not have wanted specific answers but were simply trying to generate a clarification/rewrite of the "New Zealand English" page. I hope your question and my response lead to some sort of cleanup, because I consider the page unsatisfactory in its present form. Akld guy (talk) 02:30, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


I had to look up strine. Funny. Peter Horn User talk 17:09, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Still pending[edit]

Still pending at Template talk:Convert/TonCwt to t#Just curious (latest post there)

Peter Horn User talk 21:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014[edit]

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  • fruit provides, among other [[dietary minerals]] in minor amounts, 7% of copper, 4% of phosphorus]] and 4% of potassium (for DV in a 2000-calorie diet) (table). Lychees are low in [[saturated fat]]
  • ref>{{cite web|title=One Lychee Equals Three Torches. Experts Call for Caution Over Fruit Illnesses)|url=|accessdate=17 June 2011}}</ref>

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ThinkPad X[edit]

I understand changing disp=flip to order=flip. But why replace the convert/flip4 templates with text equivalent? Kendall-K1 (talk) 11:19, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Never mind, I should have checked the template talk page first. Kendall-K1 (talk) 16:23, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


FYI: [1]. CC.

can you clarify?[edit]

Minor talk page dustup: yet another conflict over technical language and a template created with a lot of disusssion and input. Montanabw(talk) 05:04, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Relax M ... convert people are nice—we're not warriors! Johnuniq (talk) 07:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Then discuss that with Frietjes??? Montanabw(talk) 07:14, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


All the wikitext for Module:Convert/data is generated by a script, so manual edits are not desirable. The procedure is to add wanted units to Module:Convert/extra. Later, after confirming the units are wanted (WhatLinksHere for articles), the information is added to the master list of units, which is then processed. One of the drawbacks of the module is that there is no way (other than searching a database dump) of finding whether the units you added (hp/lb, shp/lb, kW/kg) are used. Another drawback is that with all the units in one megalist, I think we should avoid casual requests for new units that would be unlikely to get much use—I have no opinion on these. By the way, I left a rambling response at Talk:Malik Deenar re carpenter's rods. Johnuniq (talk) 06:59, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Another feature of makeunits (the script which generates Module:Convert/data) is that it performs various checks, and it would have refused to generate the current data because it would anticipate the following error which is now in Supercapacitor:
  • {{val|990|u=kW/kg}}990 kW/kg
Because no one has defined "kW/kg" at {{val}}, the above ends up calling:
  • {{convert|1|kW/kg|disp=unit or text|abbr=on}} → kW/kg
That strange disp setting was added for val—the effect is that if the unit code is known, convert outputs its defined symbol; otherwise, it outputs the given text "kW/kg" (it can also handle unit name and links). However, convert assumes the underlying data is valid, and it performs a conversion before deciding what to output. At the moment, that unit exists and has default output PS/kg, but the latter does not exist, so a mouse-over of the above error text shows a complaint that PS/kg is not defined.
I'm providing all this unwanted detail in case it's of interest for the future, and I'm hoping you'll think of a fix, or raise it at convert talk. If you think there is a need for the units you defined, no problem, and I'll get around to adding them to the master list in due course. However, I don't feel like thinking about PS/kg, so I'm hoping you'll do that. A quick way to define units of this kind is as "per" units—search the docs visible at Module:Convert/extra for "per" unit for examples. I hope any new units get used. Johnuniq (talk) 09:07, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Okay, so next time I'll add units to {{convert/extra}}, thanks for the info. The reason for adding kilowatts per kilogram was so that we could replace {{convert/scale}} on General Electric T700. It is a bit extravagant to add code for use on only one page but it's less extravagant than having a special template used only five times in articles (three times on General Electric T700 and twice on WAC Corporal, replaced with hard coding). {{Convert/scale}} is just one of many of these special templates which go pretty much unused (as you know). I can see no reason to keep them but the are clung onto for their special features. I hope one day we can do a tidy up i.e. deletions but perhaps some of these features are worth absorbing into the main template. For example, if we could (as input and/or output) take any two (or possibly more) units which are already defined and combine them (by division, multiplication, etc.), {{convert/per}} and {{convert/scale}} would become redundant. As for the kilowatts per kilogram default, I switched it to horsepower per pound, which I'd already added and which I think makes more sense anyway. Jimp 01:27, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good! Cleaning would help here, and also help people who copy an article for translation on another Wikipedia as it reduces the number of templates they have to deal with. Johnuniq (talk) 02:49, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Rod as a volume[edit]

I'm not sure how active the measurements wikiproject is, so would appreciate your comments at WT:WikiProject Measurement#Rod as a volume. There are some other recent edits from the same source that I'm not sure of, but that can be another time. Johnuniq (talk) 10:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

February 2015[edit]

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  • | ≡ {[frac|100}} ch <ref name=CRC71/> ≡ 0.66&nbsp;ft ≡ 7.92&nbsp;in
  • |}

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I used the DTSH template on tables of fraternity installation dates in sortable tables when the only information available was season, so if I had three fraternity installations as February 1, 1940, Spring 1940 and May 13, 1940, I'd do them as {{dts|1940|2|1}}, {{dtsh|1940|4|1}}Spring 1940, and {{dts|1940|5|13}} how can I do this without dtsh?Naraht (talk) 00:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

You can use |format=hide, i.e. {{dts|1940|4|1|format=hide}}Spring 1940. For more details see Template:Dts#Formatting. Jimp 12:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Gapsize[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Gapsize has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 17:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

subst'ing in5[edit]

I'm curious to know about this edit at Old Rosin the Beau. {{in5}} isn't a template I know much about, and the documentation doesn't say anything about when it's supposed to be subst'ed and when it's not. Ibadibam (talk) 00:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not a template many know much about and that's the point. It only serves to make the mark up of articles all the more arcane. It would be better if the thing were simply to vanish. I'm saying that templates which don't actually do anything of value should all be substituted and then deleted. Jimp 05:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Ibadibam (talk) 20:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Mistake in Colorado article[edit]

Hello dear user. In the section Demographics in Colordao article there is a mistake.I guess someone tried to create a table, but he failed (look at the middle part of section). Please help. (talk) 12:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Fixed with this edit Ibadibam (talk) 21:49, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Jimp 08:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Template:Change vs. Template:Noc, Template:Nof, and Template:Onc[edit]

I am curious as to why you feel that the following Wikicode:

|align=right| <span class="sortkey">19831858</span>19,831,858
|align=right| <span class="sortkey">19567410</span>19,567,410
|align=right| {{change|19567410|19831858|disp=out}}

is superior to:


The later seems much more intuitive, more efficient, substantially shorter, and it is not redundant.

Yours aye,
 Buaidh  20:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

My aim was to consolidate {{noc}}, {{nof}}, {{onc}}, {{onf}} and {{change2}} into one place. On two articles it didn't work so I cheated (until it can be got working). You're probably right, though, as long as {{change}} can't handle such long pages, it's probably best to reinstate {{nof}}. Jimp 01:20, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
It's working now. Jimp 05:48, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I tried the same thing some years ago without success.  Buaidh  14:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Infobox person[edit]

Hi. Did you changes in Infobox person were discussed somewhere before you do them? Magioladitis (talk) 23:37, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not required that every improvement be discussed but if you'd like a discussion, I'll start one. Jimp 23:30, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I tried to add |weight= with value 75 kg and I get an extra g fro some reason. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:37, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Sorry about that. It should be fixed now. Jimp 23:39, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
No problem. Since the template is used in more than 100k pages we have to be cautious. I would like to be sure there is consensus for this addition. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:45, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough. Jimp 23:46, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
There is a problem at Template:Infobox person/weight/switch. There is an "in" and "cm" line that needs attention, and:
  • {{infobox person/weight|110 lb}} → 110 lb (7 st 12 lb; 50 kg)
Johnuniq (talk) 00:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I think I fixed it, but someone should double check. I also wrapped a few inside #if: so we can find and review actual uses. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:16, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
We should really have a more complete set of tests for these subtemplates, the output from {{Infobox person/weight|105 lbs}} and {{Infobox person/weight|7.6 stone}} requires attention. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
We could probably safely use replace instead of sub, e.g. {{#invoke:String|replace|source={{{2|0}}}|pattern=lbs?|count=1|plain=false}}. Better yet, we could rewrite the whole thing in Lua. :-) Alakzi (talk) 01:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I have a blue-sky plan of putting the functionality in convert for use by infoboxes. I was thinking of using parameter |input= which could specify a space-delimited set of values and units, and convert would use the first set which had a valid number as the value. Then I hit "5 ft 11 12 in" and put the idea lower-down on my todo list. Johnuniq (talk) 03:15, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I had thought about lbs, meters, etc. It could be dealt with without too much difficulty. Yes, rewriting in Lua would be great if anyone is up for it ... and perhaps you, Johnuniq, will be. I'll look forward to the blue-sky plan (but I know how busy {{convert}} can keep you). Jimp 05:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Here's code that will deal with such things as lbs.

ft & in ←→ m or cm
in ←→ cm
st & lb ←→ lb ←→ kg

Template:Val broken?[edit]

Please see my note at Template_talk:Val#Errors. —Quondum 20:33, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

It's now fixed. Jimp 05:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Ntss template[edit]

Note that the ntss template has a sandbox and just started working on a set of testcases pages if you want to try to convert to using val. Noticed some errors with long which I haven't added test cases for yet. PaleAqua (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Jimp 04:01, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Wow looks like you got all the remaining uses. I did fix a couple of them though. Thought about suggesting that last night but figured going through device rates would be a pain. You can consider this a non-objection to the speedy delete as the template creator. Only one other editor touched the template and only a few used it and many of those got replaced a while back as other options became more powerful. The one thing I wonder about is 10^3 vs 2^10 for kB vs kiB. For telecommunications and device rates have always used 10^3 ( 1000 B = 1kB ); as it does more recently with hard drives, in most other computing fields use 2^10 ( 1024 B = 1kB or 1 kiB ). But in most use cases won't make too much differences in sorting even if the wrong one is used. Though might make sense to support something similar to the long scale option in val to make kB etc. act like kiB. Though again that is probably not necessary. PaleAqua (talk) 16:36, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
There a parameter to sort by a different unit so, for example, {{val|12|u=kB|us=kiB}} will display 12 kB but sort as 12 kiB. Jimp 16:44, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. PaleAqua (talk) 16:54, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Age in days[edit]

Why insist on changing that? {{age in days nts|month1=02|day1=08|year1=2015}}+ works perfectly well and is easy to understand. There's never been issues with that (at least in the way it's used in pro wrestling championship lists). There are bound to be more errors caused by spelling mistakes, people forgetting the "sortable=on" parameter from the end etc. if we switch to writing out the dates in full. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) #GG (talk) 14:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Ribbon Salminen,
Thanks for picking up on the errors.
Yes, {{age in days nts|month1=02|day1=08|year1=2015}} does work perfectly well but do you really think it's easy to understand? {{age in days|February 8, 2015|sortable=on}} seems so very much clearer to me; I mean, don't you agree? Okay, the |sortable=on bit is a little obscure but it's used by {{convert}} (which is a commonly used template) and it's arguably less obscure than tacking nts on anyway.
One can make a typo when entering numbers as well as when entering letters. Actually, it's nice that you pointed this out, though, since the this is another benefit of doing thing the way I'm proposing. A spelling mistake will give a visible error message whereas the wrong number will just give a wrong output.
Yes, people might forget to put |sortable=on but they might forget to use {{age in days nts}} and use {{age in days}} instead. You know, what I find? I find it easier to cope with fewer templates doing essentially the same thing but with a few minor (or sometimes not so minor) differences handled using parameters than to cope with a plethora of them going off in all different directions.
I'm aiming to make it easier for users by simplifying and standardising the use of these templates. This means fewer templates and more natural input.
Thanks again for your thoughts. Jimp 14:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
{{Age in years and days}} is acting up after your edits, see WP:VPT#An old problem in a table; it no longer tolerates spaces around values. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 07:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm getting an error even with the old code. It's strange that blank space isn't stripped away automatically. Jimp 08:19, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

"Column alignment"[edit]

Please stop, it looks terrible, the columns are much too far apart. BMK (talk) 09:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation as what you see wrong with the edits. If the columns are too far apart, we can use a different value for the width parameter. Jimp 09:48, 18 April 2015 (UTC)


Recently I investigated an esoteric convert bug which was revealed by {{val|1|u=AU/s}}. That led me to notice that val is now transcluding the old convert templates (previewing that val in a sandbox shows Template:Convert/AU/s is used). That does not concern me, but I thought I would mention the issue in case it was unintended. I think it's due to the new {{val/sortkey/unit}}, although I can't figure out why it wants to do that. {{val/units}} calls convert with {{convert|1|AU/s|disp=unit or text|abbr=on}} which displays the defined symbol for the unit, if it is defined, or the given text if it is not. You probably know all this, but I thought I'd mention it so I can cross it off my list of things to check. Johnuniq (talk) 08:03, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, is was intentional ... sort of. {{Val}} is calling the old subtemplates to get the conversion factor for the purpose of sorting. I'd wanted to use Module:Convert/data but I couldn't figure out how to input a unit code and get the "scale" value back or whether that would even be possible. Is it? Or, on the other hand, could a |disp=scale be added to get this factor (unformatted & defaulting to 1) like |disp=unit or text gets the unit symbol? This was something I'd been meaning to ask you about. So, instead I used {{convert/{{{1}}}|b|d=projection}} which does the job by getting the "b" (i.e. "scale") from the old subtemplates. Jimp 08:42, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Clever! Using the raw data would be hopeless for finding the scale because the SI units are calculated—for example, km is not in the data table. I could never work up the enthusiasm to investigate what has happened to {{ntsh}} since I first examined it a couple of years ago. The result is that the sort key output by convert is no longer exactly the same as that output by ntsh. If it weren't for that incompatibility issue, rather than an option to get the scale, why not an option to get the sort key? Convert now uses the technique you proposed to generate a "standard" sort key, as can be seen by the fact that the following all give the same key (except for ntsh's additions):
  • {{convert|1,234.56|km|km|disp=number|sortable=on|debug=yes}}70061234560000000001,234.56
  • {{convert|1,234,560|m|m|disp=number|sortable=on|debug=yes}}70061234560000000001,234,560
  • {{convert|1,234,560,000|mm|mm|disp=number|sortable=on|debug=yes}}70061234560000000001.23456×109
  • {{ntsh|1,234,560|debug=yes}}7006123456000000000♠
Some new syntax would have to return only the sort key, and the sort key would be based on the given value if the unit code was not known. I've put it on my todo for later contemplation. Johnuniq (talk) 10:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
By the way, AU/s is recognized as an automatic per unit, so it has a scale:
  • {{convert|1|AU/s|AU/s|disp=number|sortable=on|debug=yes}}70111495978707000001.0
  • {{convert|60|AU/min|mph|disp=number|sortable=on|debug=yes}}70111495978707000003.3×1011
Johnuniq (talk) 10:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
It sounds promising. I noticed that the original version of the module was using the old (pre-2011) {{ntsh}} sort key but it that was updated some time ago. {{Ntsh}} hasn't been significantly changed since 2011 except for the addition of the "♠" which was to prevent the displayed numbers following the hidden part from interfering. I think an option to get the sort key might work. It'd take a little more rearrangement at {{val}} but the result would probably be an improvement. Jimp 10:48, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I spent quite a while puzzling over the "♠" and it still does not make sense to me. The sort key is 19 digits but is used as a string, so only if two sort keys were identical would "♠" be considered. Since both sort keys would have that symbol as the 20th character, it would be skipped and have no effect on the sort outcome. I think one of the templates also padded with ampersands in a way that I could not understand, although a very quick look fails to find that now. Johnuniq (talk) 03:21, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that it won't always get treated as a string. I can't quite remember where exactly I ran into this problem but it did come up somewhere. Jimp 03:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on {{val}}[edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
You were one of the first contributors to {{val}} in 2008 and I am very happy to see you still have time to improve it by leaps and bounds almost a decade later! With over 2000 transclusions and versions in almost 40 languages, your edits will surely improve Wikipedia as a whole: keep up the good work! SkyLined (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


Would you mind taking a look at this article and recommending a replacement example? -- (talk) 05:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Category:Unit subtemplates of Convert by year[edit]

Category:Unit subtemplates of Convert by year, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. DexDor (talk) 12:09, 9 May 2015 (UTC)