User talk:Joe Decker

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Request on 19:16:32, 15 November 2014 for assistance on AfC submission by A0royal[edit]

Expanding stub for Ambassador John Banks Elliott _ Ambassadors of Ghana to Russia[edit]

Dear Joe Decker, I hope all goes well with your emergency and you will be able to return to your talk page soon. Someone called 'Huon' has messed up and removed my stub expansion to Ambassador Elliott's page. I do not understand why he did what he did, because what he is talking about has nothing to do with what I am writing. Everything I put on the page has been approved by Ambassador Elliott. I am so upset I don't even know what to say. Please advise. I spent a lot of time piecing Ambassador Elliott's oratory together. Some of the material is from his own collection. If 'Huon' had taken time to read what was written, he would have noted that 'Ambassador Elliott is resolute and holds no grudges towards any persons or institutions that are inequitable towards him or his achievements'. Huon knows nothing about Ambassador Elliott or me. He has really upset me. Kind regards, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 19:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Joe Decker, I have reverted all the mess and deletions made by other persons to Ambassador Elliott's page. How do I stop these other people from interfering. I would like to take time and have the page properly edited and completed without them meddling. Is there anyway to prevent them? I have also replaced the photographs deleted by them for no reason.

My previous request to you was to help expand and edit the stub. On expanding the stub for Ambassador John Banks Elliott, I have placed a great deal of the conversation I had with him about his Ambassadorial-ship in Moscow. I hope what I have placed is sufficient assemblage of him. As I said I need help with editing and I am not sure which links to other pages or what should be linked.

I would like to add his letters of accreditation which I have on my files. Please advise. _Ambassador John Banks Elliott_copy 1-2 accreditation from Queen Elizabeth II_01.1960_1.jpg _Ambassador John Banks Elliott_copy 2-2 accreditation from Queen Elizabeth II_01.1960_2.jpg Ambassador John Banks Elliott_copy 1-2_accreditation from President Kwame Nkrumah_07.1960_1.jpg Ambassador John Banks Elliott_copy 2-2_accreditation from President Kwame Nkrumah_07.1960_2.jpg

I have also added references of Books, Journals, Newspapers and Newsreel mentioning the Ambassador. Could you please have a look at what I have placed and help with making it readable. I managed to get many more interesting stories from him, but it is not everything that I will put on the page, some of the stuff I omitted is moderately confidential and some anecdotal. I guess I will have to write a book about his stories one of these days.

Sorry for being so repetitive but these people interfering with the page has really upset me. Kind regards, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 20:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Joe Decker,

The article is written with honesty and recounted by Ambassador Elliott himself. It is a complete assemblage as I could master of his Ambassadorial-ship in Moscow, I don’t think I will be adding anything else and would like the stub status removed from the article when the editing is complete. It will be nice to be able to get it over with before Christmas. I left a message on your talk page requesting help with editing the addition to the article. What I did not realize was that others have access to your talk page and could comment from your talk page directly to me. I have removed and adjusted what I think was causing the controversy, that is the second section, although it was approved for release in 2002 and anyone wishing to see this document could have access to it just by clicking the link and asking for it. As you would have noticed, ‘Huon’, who deleted the addition to the article and made uncalled for remarks about Ambassador Elliott has deleted my article again, that is after I restored it and asked him kindly to allow me time to edit it in my time with an editor of my choice. The Ambassador is an old man with a story to tell and is not familiar with today’s modern jargons, frankly neither am I. I have received another message in my talk page from Huon dated 7 December asking me not to restore the contents without addressing issues. He has also left his thoughts on Ambassador Elliott’s page blatantly sighting others as more verifiable than Ambassador Elliott himself who WAS the Ambassador in Moscow. He has also accused Ambassador Elliott of whitewashing his story. I find this appalling and will advise Huon to check the background of those persons whose information and literature he seems to think are more credible than that of Ambassador Elliott himself. Has Huon spoken to any of these people he is talking about? Or has been simply reading articles for which they were paid for. I refuse to have any dealings with Huon, and will not be making contact with him. I am sure Ambassador Elliott still has the clout as to where his complaint should be directed. I also keep on getting messages about Ambassador Elliott’s photographs, which I uploaded. I spoke to Ambassador Elliott and he told me that he has no idea who took the old photographs of him in the sixties, all he remembers is that all the photographs he has from that period were sent to his offices with complements from the Ministries in Moscow. He has a whole box full. What I did is scan what I needed or make copies with my blackberry. The other photos of him in Maidenhead I took myself with my blackberry and have been shoveling them from computer to computer. There are no copyright restrictions attached to any of these photos and they can be displayed at will.

I will wait to hear from you about what to do before I repost the article again. Kind regards, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 22:29, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Joe Decker,

I have become so exasperated with 'Houn' that I have reported him to the "Administrators noticeboard/Incidents". Titled: Problems with user 'Houn' with reference to Ambassadors of Ghana to Russia. 'Houn' has warned me not to replace his unwarranted deletions. I do not understand why he chooses to fight with himself. I look forward to your views on the matter. Kind regards, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 16:26, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dorothy,
First, I've been away, and will continue to be away from Wikipedia as I deal with some personal matters. My apologies for the delay and what will be a short and likely incomplete reply.
I am sorry that you are exasperated, I know that you are acting in good faith. Without having had the opportunity to look at the full back and forth, I will say one thing--Wikipedia's policies don't allow material to be based in general on the subject's recollections. This may be at the core of the dispute here. Our articles are supposed to be based on verifiable reliable sources, it is not a question of whether it is sufficient that the information is accurate, nor is it intended as disrespect, it is a matter that materials need to be based more or less on reputable publications. Even original ("primary") source material, such as contemporaneous documents, can be problematic under our policies. This can be frustrating, as well as confusing, even mystifying to new editors here.
I'm sorry that that is the case.
Because I won't be available for the next several days, I would direct you to the Wikipedia Teahouse, which is at WP:Teahouse, which is a somewhat more friendly resource for new editors, and no matter what the issues they may be able to provide friendly assistance and answers. Best regards, --j⚛e deckertalk 17:05, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Dear Joe Decker,

So glad it is you, I will wait for you to fully get back to your desk and repost the expansion for Ambassador Elliott's page. I hope you can help me then. Thank you, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 23:42, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Joe Decker,

I have just read the Wikipedia: Public domain where it states that Wikipedia is primarily subject to U.S. Law. I also visited the applicable links including, situations by country. I hope now, 'Houn' and all those who deleted files with reference to Ambassador Elliott will replace them so that I can edit them accordingly. Look forward to you getting back. Kind regards, Dorothy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dorothyelliott (talkcontribs) 21:39, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dorothy,
I'm not quite sure what the issues here have to do with the text being in the public domain or not. I wasn't aware that any concerns related to copyright had been raised at all.
The requirement that articles be based on third-party sources that have undergone an editorial process with a reputation for fact-checking is not about copyright, and it is not entirely (although it is in part) a question of accuracy), it is also part of the process by which we ensure that our articles have a neutral point of view and provide appropriate weight--that is, we put more emphasis on the stuff that has had more coverage in third-party sources, less on those that have had less coverage.
But perhaps I'm missing something, since you are talking about concerns regarding the public domain, can you point me at where copyright issues were raised? Thanks! --j⚛e deckertalk 22:09, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Not sure whether this is still relevant, but the copyright issue deals with the images Dorothyelliott uploaded, particularly those taken in Moscow by Soviet photographers at official events. Dorothyelliott said those images were in the public domain. I don't see why they'd be. Huon (talk) 16:56, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation, that sounds like a completely sensible concern. I'll take a look, and see if I can sort through that issue with her when she returns. Most appreciated. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Edited to add: I would guess that the Moscow/Brezhnev image(s) was/were products of the government of the Soviet Union or TASS, but that's just a guess, and I have no idea what rules would apply there, given that the "copyright holding" entity would no longer exist. You'd need to ask someone much smarter than I about image copyright to sort that one out. If you want to push that towards deletion at WikiCommons I'd entirely understand.
Now, I'm going to take a guess, but I'd like DorothyElliot to confirm this, that she is or knows the photographer for the 2011 image, she states she knows the subject (and shares his last name), so it's possible that for that image, at least, that I simply need to direct her to WP:Donating copyrighted materials. That one might be PD if the photographer wishes it to be so and formally lets us know through OTRS. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:25, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The images already were deleted at the Commons, whereupon Dorothyelliott uploaded them to Wikipedia. I'll delete the Moscow images since no evidence of permission has been forthcoming for more than a week and Dorothyelliott pretty openly stated that she does not in fact know those images' copyright status. Personally I expect Russia to own the copyright, but that's just a guess. The third one I understand was taken by Dorothyelliott herself (she said something to that effect here, for example), and I have given her detailed advice on how to release that image under a free license. I'll give that one a grace period, but someone else may come along and delete it at any moment. Huon (talk) 21:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I completely understand. If/when DE returns, I will see what I can do to explain our copyright necessities. Russia is certainly a possible copyright successor, I made an attempt to read our article on the history of copyright in the SU and my head spun. In any case, thank you for your patience all around, and I agree that we can't maintain images around indefinitely without addressing our copyright necessities. Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 22:57, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Unfortunately Ronhjones deleted all the images while I was writing the above. I'll gladly undelete the one Dorothyelliott took herself if she'll go on to add the licensing information to the file page. Unfortunately I don't think I'd be welcome at her talk page; maybe it would be more beneficial if you talked to her. Huon (talk) 23:12, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I think that's probably right, and your offer is very much appreciated. I'll try leaving a note over at her talk page. Thanks for your help, I do appreciate it. --j⚛e deckertalk 23:25, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Please reopen Jayden Jaymes AFD[edit]

I was commenting on it when you closed it. It was improperly NAC-closed earlier today, so I'm behind schedule. I don't know my comments will make a difference, but I'd like to be on the record. Thanks. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 00:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, if you'd worked on an opinion, I'm happy to have it on the record in any case. --j⚛e deckertalk 01:21, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks very much. I've !voted now, and appreciate your giving me the opportunity. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 01:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
My pleasure. Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 05:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Provide a copy please[edit]

This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference. 23:46, 16 December 2014 Joe Decker (talk | contribs) deleted page Frankie Townsend (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frankie Townsend)

Seems he was deleted entirely on the basis of not being notable as a carnival wrestler, wheras the novelty singing act is probably more notable. I understand martial arts editors having to maintain a "deletionist" position, but am not happy about the nom's apparent practice of not notifying article creators. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Email sent. Sadly, such notification is not required, although the tool I use to file AfDs when I nominate myself does that for free. Pity all around. --j⚛e deckertalk 20:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Request on 10:06:06, 17 December 2014 for assistance on AfC submission by Geven46[edit]

I am totally new at this and have inadvertently used copyrighted material I am not even aware to be copyrighted. If those portions submitting copyrighted materials are highlighted, I will most definitely delete those and resubmit the article.

Geven46 (talk) 10:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll admit to being a bit confused, are you saying you don't know which parts of the article you cut and pasted from other sources? In any case, I can't restore copyrighted material, and pretty much all materials are copyrighted under United States law. --j⚛e deckertalk 21:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
To put this into context, I asked Geven46 to ask you to email the article (using the "Email this user" link), if (and only if) he could supply ample evidence he wrote the text he was copying from. I believe RHaworth is one of several admins that will email text of deleted articles on this premise, although I know other admins will refuse to email anything speeded per G12, no ifs, no buts. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:34, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Ah!! I've emailed him the article, I'm happy to send by email, but usually reluctant to directly restore. Thanks. --j⚛e deckertalk 22:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

User:Gregory Tanner and Mary Fairburn article[edit]

Hi, Joe. I'm assisting Gregory Tanner with his article about Tolkien's illustrator. I was just trying to find out why you deleted his AFC submission. (There's no hassle about this - I think he was a little puzzled as to why it got deleted because of copyright violations.) No rush with the answer, however, if you're busy. LouiseS1979 (talk) 20:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

There were a very good number of substantial, identical passages in both the draft and [1]. The deletion log also notes that URL, or should. Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 20:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Joe, I appreciate your response. LouiseS1979 (talk) 07:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
You are quite welcome, I wish some of our tools did a better job at passing that information along. Best, --j⚛e deckertalk 22:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Request to reopen Rathaavara page[edit]

The page was deleted coz it was too soon. Please request to reopen the page as it has started shoot. Few links below talking about the film poster release. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirtanmn (talkcontribs) 06:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I see you or another editor has already created an article on the film. I haven't had a free moment to assess the information you've provided, but if you're correct that principal photography has begun, and there are sources which meet our general notability guideline, I think it is likely the article will remain and grow. --j⚛e deckertalk 22:53, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

My submission - Hormazd Narielwalla Collage Artist[edit]

I had submitted an article on this London based artist and to my genuine surprise it was deleted by you because I had written certain portions which amounted to infringement of copyrights.

This was my very first submission on an individual, and I sincerely assure you I had done everything in good faith. My request is the deleted article be sent to me at my email address, for re submission, after I delete and reword any copyright material.

I would be most grateful if those portions that infringe copyrights be highlighted.

Please return this article on my email address for me to remove all copyright matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geven46 (talkcontribs) 09:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I've emailed you the article, no problem. I understand folks don't understand copyright restrictions. However, we take then VERY seriously.
Here's some advice to avoid future deletions.
  1. Write in your own words. Really. Don't even do more than glance at the draft that I sent you, if you attempt to "edit out" the copied portions in my experience there will be something missed. You will find it much easier to simply write it from scratch, copying absolutely nothing.
  2. Write in neutral words. You may be, and/or may be associated with the artist. If that's the case, please read WP:PSCOI. But whether or not it's true, the language used in the article was not the language of an encyclopedia, it was the language of an advertisement. I don't know if you are familiar with traditional encyclopedias, but imagine, if you will, the dry and neutral tone that the Encyclopedia Britannica would use if they were to cover this subject. Emulate that.
  3. Work based on arm's length, third party sources. One of the basic bars an article like this is going to have to meet is notability, which is defined under Wikipedia as being shown by coverage in arm's-length, reliable sources. These are usually things such as newspaper articles and magazine articles, and excludes the sort of "reprinted press releases", sources must be completely independent and reliable. My best advice is to start over, and then work at finding those sources. Find out what they talk about, and how. And then write your article based almost entirely on those sources. You can use primary sources to fill in entirely neutral and uncontroversial facts (where's the HQ?), but the use of primary sources should be a minimum. This process is likely to be frustrating for you if you take any other path, and while this process may sound like it will be more work, in the long run, it will be less work for you. Best regards, --j⚛e deckertalk 22:50, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

@Joe Decker Thanks very much a zillion times. I will write, from scratch, in my own words so it ensures all of copy paste portions will be entirely removed. This artist deserves recognition- no one is doing collages and art work, on tailoring patterns, that have been exhibited and sold throughout the world.

You are quite welcome. The thing about the sources will be key--you may also want to ask questions at the WP:Teahouse if you have them along the way, they are an excellent and friendly source for helping new editors get their footing around here, this can be a confusing place to navigate. Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 21:40, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Page deleted without reason[edit]

01:45, 22 October 2014 Joe Decker (talk | contribs) deleted page HeatsProductions (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HeatsProductions)

Hello, you deleted the page I had worked hard to create without stating a reason. It took months of talks with many contributions from Wikipedia users and everyone was finally happy with how it stood. So why did you delete it? If this was a mistake, fair enough, please can it be reinstated. Otherwise, please provide the reason.


The article was deleted as a result of the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HeatsProductions. Participants said, in somewhat oblique language, that the article both did not meet our neutral point of view policy, but moreover, that there were not (either within the article or otherwise available) reliable, third-party independent sources which provided in-depth coverage of the topic. This bar is set particularly high for organizations and corporations, see in particular WP:CORPDEPTH.
You are welcome to appeal this decision to deletion review, but I believe my conclusion, that participants in the discussion felt the article not meet our "notability" guidelines in particular, will be upheld unless you provide them with sources that demonstrate that the topic does in fact meet that guideline. If you are new here at Wikipedia, you may wish to run a few by some editors at the WP:Teahouse first, as ... many new editors find the ins and outs of our notability guidelines challenging. Best of luck! --j⚛e deckertalk 22:44, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

louis robinson deletion[edit]

I object to the removal of the above page, it would appear you have deleted LOUIS ROBINSONS wikiapedia page, im unsure why that is, under your guidance notes for rugby league, he has played in the last 3 seasons 7 times for Canada in full internationals against USA and Jamacia in both USA and Canada, countries all who fall within the RLEF and RLIF, he would have played around 4 more games but his English club side were unwilling to release him mid season as it clashes with the domestic league season and they pay his wages. He plays in the championship as a semi professional; he has played in the challenge cup for the last three seasons which one of your rugby league guidlines, another one of your guidelines. He is paid and contracted on a two season contract to the London skolars who play in the div one of the kingstone press championship. Under the 12 super league teams, there are only 3/4 team full time professional teams in the two next divisions, it is a march till october sport. The co-operative championship no longer exists and hasnt for a season so your guidelines are out of date, This season he has turned down 4 new offers to stay in London where he lives including two to go full time, and two offers to play in France this winter, he is only one of two semi professional internationals to play for Canada, so is a big part of there rugby league heritage being only one of two overseas semi pros, All of history and claims were backed by factual links to trade papers and independent SPORT AND RUGBY websites, the site was updated on a regular basis, with accuarate and factually correct information. should you require any further information please contact me,

Hi. I deleted the article after determining that the consensus of the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Louis Robinson (rugby league) was to delete the article, and that that result was in line with our policies regarding deletion. For the article to be restored, you'd have to show that he either had appearances in a fully-professional league, or that he was the subject of signficant, non-routine coverage in multiple sources which are both at arm's length from him and his team(s), and which are reliable--generally newspapers, magazines, books. Sorry I can't be of more help short of that. If you feel I've erred, you can appeal my decision at deletion review. --j⚛e deckertalk 21:35, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Ambassador John Banks Elliott[edit]

Dear Joe Decker, I have left the same message on my talk page in response to the copyright issue. I have sent an email to Wikipedia: permissions-commons_ (for the images) I really hope this will be accepted.

With reference to the photographs taken in Moscow, I do not know if this letter will be of any help in restoring Ambassador Elliot’s photographs. I already had copies of these same photographs given to me by Ambassador Elliott, which I had placed on his Wikipedia page and Wikimedia file which others have deleted.

Please see the attached letter, which I received by post from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Russia (MIDR) dated 30 October 2014. [1]

I can't seem to find or know how I can attach the letter without making it open. I used embedded file but I know its wrong, it did not come through for me to attach. Please let me know how to attach or load the letter for your perusal, I scanned it jpg (Below is the unofficial translation of the letter)

Dear dorothyelliott, As requested, we hereby send you copies of Ambassador John Banks Elliott’s letters of Accreditation of 28 January and 1 July 1960 as well as photos of presentation of his credentials to the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet Mr. K.E. Voroshilov, 22.03.1960. These documents are kept at the internal Archives of the Russian Federation. Enclosed: copies of documents and CD (for the addressed) (signed) Head of Archives Internal Politics Russian Federation.

I had a look at the sandbox and found Ambassador Elliott's page, text changed by Eunok4seth on 14 December 2014 (bad grammar) I decided to change it back to how it was, not sure if I did it right. I am not sure of what is going on anymore, I am very confused.

Thanks for your patience. Kind regards, DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 04:25, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—December 2014[edit]

Screenshot showing how to add or remove columns from a table

Did you know?

Basic table editing is now available in VisualEditor. You can add and remove rows and columns from existing tables at the click of a button.

The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on table editing and performance. Their weekly status reports are posted on Upcoming plans are posted at the VisualEditor roadmap.

VisualEditor was deployed to several hundred remaining wikis as an opt-in beta feature at the end of November, except for most Wiktionaries (which depend heavily upon templates) and all Wikisources (which await integration with ProofreadPage).

Recent improvements[edit]

Basic support for editing tables is available. You can insert new tables, add and remove rows and columns, set or remove a caption for a table, and merge cells together. To change the contents of a cell, double-click inside it. More features will be added in the coming months. In addition, VisualEditor now ignores broken, invalid rowspan and colspan elements, instead of trying to repair them.

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Looking ahead[edit]

VisualEditor will replace the existing design with a new theme designed by the User Experience group. The new theme will be visible for desktop systems at in late December and at other sites early January. (You can see a developer preview of the old "Apex" theme and the new "MediaWiki" one which will replace it.)

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Thank you! WhatamIdoing (WMF) (talk) 23:37, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Private Letter by post from MID Moscow to dorothyelliott.jpg