User talk:John of Reading/Archive 4

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Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5


Although I have tried suggesting deleting stubs or articles, I'm not doing it right despite studying the articles on deletion you suggested. When I edit and put {{subst:prod/reason}} at the top of an article that appears, with my reasons in the reasons space between the brackets but nothing appears above the article with a symbool for deletng it. How can I do it right? <ARRust (talk) 15:28, 26 May 2011 (UTC)>

You should be using a "pipe" character not a forward slash: {{subst:prod|reason}}. On my UK keyboard that's on the key to the left of the "z". An alternative is to enable Twinkle, if your browser is one of those listed there, and then you can choose "PROD" from a menu and type your "reason" into a text box. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Table format

Hi John, I was wondering if you could help me with the table formatting on this section. It exceeds the screen width on my screen. I recently changed the table a bit, but the formatting seems to have gone bad. Will be grateful for any assistance. Regards, Lynch7Talk 16:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I remember this one! I think you'll have to shrink the simple yes/no columns to make more room for the wide "Other" column. I've just shrunk two of the columns by a few pixels, showing two possible ways to do this. There may be other ways. Feel free to revert, of course. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:18, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not really good at technical stuff, so, thanks for the help :) Lynch7Talk 17:28, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
But you know, its weird how the table fits well for all the other sections, but only this section has problems. Lynch7Talk 17:30, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Got it! Perhaps those changes to the headings weren't needed after all? -- John of Reading (talk) 17:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Seems so. Thanks, you're a real help :) Lynch7Talk 17:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:John of Reading/X2

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A tag has been placed on User:John of Reading/X2, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as at articles for deletion. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. ukexpat (talk) 01:10, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Testing with a proper template... – ukexpat (talk) 01:10, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Yup worked fine... – ukexpat (talk) 01:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Master Rules

I looked up the part you tagged in Dungeons & Dragons Master Rules, and yes, it actually does say "this information should been around". (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, thank you. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:49, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Bridgestone logo 2011.jpg


Thanks for uploading File:Bridgestone logo 2011.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude2 (talk) 04:50, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Fine by me, someone has switched to an SVG version. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:24, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Portal:Christian Metal

I've fixed the redirect to Portal:Christian metal myself. Portals cannot redirect to the article. No worries. JJ98 (Talk) 15:24, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Sophomore albums

Haven't checked your contributions, and I don't use AWB, and you probably know this already. But occasionally the phrase "sophomore album" (or "single", or (yuk) "effort") comes up in articles as a direct quote - if it's reported speech, it should be left alone. Cheers pablo 16:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, when fixing typos and such like I aim to leave quotes and web page titles alone. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:33, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I was on a similar mission a few years ago (but manually) and had to go back and revisit a few, which was a pain, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to mention it! pablo 20:38, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Here in the UK the word isn't used much. My teenage daughter knew that "sophomore" described one particular year of school, but didn't know which; my wife guessed that a "sophomore album" might be used to display one's graduation photos. So not a good word to use in an international encyclopedia! -- John of Reading (talk) 20:41, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

contibution deletion

I wrote a researched article on Humphrey Brown MP yet it has been deleted. why?

Wikipedia is highly valauble but far too complicated.

John of Tewkesbury ( [details removed] ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Tewkesbury (talkcontribs) 20:26, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Poking around a bit, I can see that the article Humphrey Brown was deleted by Jimfbleak (talk · contribs) with the comment "Essay, original research". I'm not an administrator and cannot see the deleted article, but if it was similar to the copy on your user page then I am surprised by the deletion - there are plenty of references throughout the text.
I will leave a message on that administrator's talk page and see what he has to say. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
This article raised concerns. It seems to have appeared in one go, with a non-encyclopaedic tone (bankrupt and felon!, we have learned) and no wikilinks at all. Although it has references, they are not formatted as Wikipedia references. I can only assume that you wrote the article for another purpose and just copied it here. You can of course recreate, but it needs some work to be acceptable as an encyclopaedia article, rather than an WP:OR essay Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:24, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Does the deleted version have any history that is worth preserving? The version in the Google cache shows that someone had tagged it with {{Citation style}}. Could you restore it as User:John Tewkesbury/Humphrey Brown, please, and I will try to guide the author through the process of improving it. I'm still very surprised by the deletion, and concerned that there was no notification or advice given at User talk:John Tewkesbury. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
The version removed is identical to this. There is no real history, a one-edit copy-and-paste (from where?) with only the citation tag and one trivial correction subsequently. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
OK, thank you. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Timestamp to prevent archiving while the MfD period. -- John of Reading (talk) 02:41, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

You didn't have to delete my whole article I was working on it.

It is just plain rude, I was working on it, you could have mentioned what it needed, you chose to delete the article for other obvious reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Speakeasyandsoft (talkcontribs) 18:23, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Your text is not lost; you can retrieve it from the page history or another editor can do it for you. But, as I said on your talk page, I found that you'd copied many sentences from the source websites. The instructions for this situation are at Wikipedia:Copyright violations#Dealing with copyright violations and are pretty clear. But your research into Bunny Yeager's life and work won't be wasted if you restate the facts in your own words, with references to tell readers where the information is coming from. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Your reply to my Help Desk Posting

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. If you don't mind me bouncing questions off of you as I get started on Wiki, that would be great. I am learning that Wiki is set-up in a way that it's pretty much geared for anyone to do as much or little as they want. I am also recognizing that Wiki is just like any other human society or group, in that there's some written rules, some things are common sense, and some things are a matter of plain ol' respect, trust and decency. So, I've got a few novice questions for you:

1. Am I correct in assuming that communications involving Wiki "business" are expected to be conducted within the confines of the Wiki system? Essentially, we're encouraged to keep the comms in here, not outside the system thru personal e-mail box addresses, or personal phone calls? The reason I'm asking is I am a professional speaker & mgmt consultant. One of the things I harp on in seminars and consulting projects is for people to re-train themselves to be less glued to this stupid electronic box, and start being a bit more discriminating in their choice of communication modes - there's certain situations where a phone call is best; or instant messaging; or times when it's clear that a formal meeting should not be done, etc. Once we know one of our Wiki colleagues well enough, can we be more personal, like a phone call, or if you actually live near by, have a face-to-face conversation. Bottomline: Are we expected to maintain the arm's length relationship thru the computer and Wikipedia?

2. Is Wiki etiquette such that we should refrain from using other forms of addressing each other that's not part of our Wiki user name? For example, if some guy has a Wiki user name of "SkiDude," but I know his actual name is Mike Cavendish, should I refrain from using "Mike," and only use "SkiDude?" I guess I'm trying to determine the sanctity of people maintaining anonymity?

3. I was looking at the guy's personal page (see, I don't even know the official name for that) who is the Military History Project's lead coordinator and his handle is Parsecboy. He's done a MASSIVE amount of work on Wikipedia. It seems like there's a lot of people that work on Wiki projects like Parsecboy that he would have to be working on it literally as a full-time project, probably far more than 40 hours per week. Am I correct that none of the editor/members are compensated employees? All of it is purely philanthropic, where all time and any goods/services costs are all out-of-pocket personally?

4. Are we all expected to fill-out the personal page with all our bio? I realize no one can make you do anything - but going back to the expectations of being a good team player, is it kid of an unwritten rule that to be informally sort of one of the gang, Wiki etiquette again, expects you to prepare at least a basic personal bio page so your colleagues get to know you a bit?

5. For the various coordinator duties or committee chairs, how do they get those responsibilities? If someone has a chair or leader duty, is it an indefinite assignment for however long they want to keep it, or are there job length terms, like it's a six month or one year voluntary gig?

6. I understand that any editor/member can jump in and start editing anything they want. However, is Wiki etiquette such that you don't really do that? You seek-out the primary editor as a courtesy that you have something to add/change/delete?

Sorry for all the questions. I just want to get off on the right foot.

BTW, because of my international work, I have my cell on 24/7 and let people call me anytime they want, day or night. Feel free to call me anytime in Calif @ 805-210-4735. And my personal e-mail address is I live my life like an open book and don't have anything about that's off limits or I try to hide. Feel free to pass along my contact info to anyone, anywhere, anytime. ;-)

Steve-VietVet (talk) 08:56, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm sleepy this morning, but I'll do my best...
1. I think expected is too strong a word; it's just that most editors find it more convenient to use talk pages. This ensures that discussions are open to anyone, and that there is a public record of each decision and the reasoning behind it. But there's no rule against off-wiki discussion. Maybe someone has done some research on this, but I have no idea how much off-wiki discussion goes on. In my 18 months here I've received about six emails and sent only two or three. Some issues need to be handled quietly, and email is best for those: see WP:OVERSIGHT.
2. See WP:PRIVACY. If, in your example, "Skidude" had posted his real name on his personal page (the "user page"), then it would be fine to use it; but otherwise you should stick to using the nickname.
3. There are a very few paid staff employed by the WikiMedia Foundation. They are listed at wmf:Staff. I doubt if they have time to do much editing. So, yes, 99.99...% of the work here is done by unpaid volunteers: article research, article writing, vandalism clean-up, picture retouching, copyright investigations, grammar clean-up, help desk, and so on and so on. Astonishing, really!
4. You can post as much or as little at User:Steve-VietVet as you wish, subject to a few commonsense guidelines. My user page is fairly typical, but perhaps not very flashy - a mixture of stuff for other people to see and links that I use often. But they are not essential. An editor's interests and competence will quickly become clear from the edits.
5. I'm not sure that we have coordinators. Everything proceeds by suggestion and discussion on talk pages. There is a trusted group of administrators who have access to extra buttons in the user interface - to delete articles or block users, mainly - and to gain that access they have to pass a Request for adminship. Currently that access is granted for life, though that gets brought up for discussion every so often.
6. Yes, you can jump in - see Be bold - but if you doing something drastic then someone is likely to undo it, and then you must stop and discuss - see Bold, Revert, Discuss. Alternatively, you can propose a change by posting on the article talk page and see how other editors respond. The editors most interested in that article will be watching the page and its talk page, and will see your suggestions. You don't need to identify the primary editor(s) and get permission, because no-one owns a Wikipedia article. (Sorry, there are policy/guideline pages on everything).
Thank you for asking all those questions; I've enjoyed putting these answers together. I hope it helps! -- John of Reading (talk) 10:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


Haven't bugged you in a can I get this going? It's annoying to have to pull up User:Ctjf83/HD to get the templates. CTJF83 12:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

It got archived without further action, as only one other user signed to say that they'd tested it and would find it useful. You could try copying the last sub-section back to WT:HD and adding your own signature. I was hoping for half a dozen before getting back to Fetchcomms. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:28, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Where can I request people to weigh in/test it out? WP:VP? CTJF83 13:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
It's only the help desk volunteers who would find it useful, so I think WT:HD is the natural place. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I'll work on it after I wake up :) CTJF83 13:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Courtesy notification

Hello John of Reading, I've just closed Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:John Tewkesbury/Humphrey Brown as keep, in order not to bite the newbie (however, I've blanked the page); please, let me know if you have any objections. Salvio Let's talk about it! 14:42, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

No, I have no objections. Next time I run into something similar I will ask at WP:MCQ first. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Rising Tides (book)

Hello John. I have graduated to patrolling new pages. The above page and related Rising Tide seem to need some disambiguation work that I feel is a bit beyond me. Would you take a look please? Greenmaven (talk) 00:57, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello again! Good to see that you have settled in.
The current page names and redirects were put in place by Tassedethe (talk · contribs), a very active contributor for over three years. You could perhaps make suggestions at User talk:Tassedethe, but it's probably best to assume that the current arrangement is intended. . -- John of Reading (talk) 06:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks John Greenmaven (talk) 07:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

"River flood warning"

I tagged this article (above) with {{globalise}} but had it undone. I would appreciate your POV. Greenmaven (talk) 00:41, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

The article seems redundant, since the subject is covered by Flood warning. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Is this blatant advertising?

Because of You... And a candidate for CSD? Greenmaven (talk) 02:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not the one to ask about this. There's a sliding scale from "encyclopedic coverage" -> Tag as {{advertising}} -> Take to AfD -> Speedy G11, and another sliding scale from independent coverage in high quality news sources -> independent coverage in low quality news sources -> news coverage based entirely on press releases -> an article containing only references to primary sources. I'm not confident in making a judgement on either of these scales. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


Is this DIET a good reason for a DISAM page wrt Diet (nutrition)? Best wishes Greenmaven (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

DIET is already mentioned on the dab page Diet. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:50, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Is this a candidate for deletion?

The List of postal codes of Paraguay. Tell me if I am asking you too many questions Greenmaven (talk) 08:05, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Apparently not; see Category:Postal codes by country. Feel free to ask more questions, but you might do better to ask someone who is active at NPP. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Arkansas Territorial Militia

If you have a the time, could you do a copyedit on Arkansas Territorial Militia. Thanks. Aleutian06 (talk) 20:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Easy - you need to add an "A" at the front! -- John of Reading (talk) 20:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks!Aleutian06 (talk) 21:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the C/E! Sorry it is such a mess.Aleutian06 (talk) 22:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done If you scroll down the diff you will see I've left some {{Clarify}} tags and one or two HTML comments. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:35, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for all your help!Aleutian06 (talk) 23:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Lasting powers of attorney in England and Wales

Hi John.

In spite of your helpful work on this one a few weeks ago, I find that the difficulty about Google searches remains. If you search on '"lasting powers of attorney" wiki', you are sent as first choice to the page which I put in - fine. But if you omit the 'wiki', then the search leads (at the foot of the second page) to a Wikipedia entry, but the wrong one - the general page on 'Powers of attorney', which is mainly written for U.S.readers - it has a section on powers of attorney in other legal systems, and this has a section on 'England and Wales' which links to my entry. But there is no other route to my entry, at least on the first ten Google pages. Can you see why this happens, and suggest how to ensure that a search on "lasting powers of attorney" gives preference to my Wikipedia entry (of course, somewhere among all the non-wiki sources) rather than the one entitled 'powers of attorney'?

Many thanks.

J.martin.leonard (talk) 16:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I have no special knowledge of Google's search algorithms. But I suspect that Google thinks that the page Power of Attorney is important is because 42 pages from all over the web link to it. You won't be able to fix this easily. Why does this issue worry you? -- John of Reading (talk) 17:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Would I be justified in moving this?

National Maritime Academy to "National Maritime Academy (India)" --Greenmaven (talk) 04:08, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I've added a hatnote. I think that will do until/unless someone finds another institution with exactly the same name. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:06, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Shock Therapy (band)

Well, I can't seem to understand why Shock Therapy (band) got deleted, see also I beg to differ about "non-notable"!! Founded in 1982, hailing from Detroit, MI, 15 albums, very popular and appreciated in the goth scene, and people say "non notable"? Also see Bob Stubbs and read this excerpt: "...also cited as a major influence for Kurt Cobain in Kurt's early Seattle music scene days. In 1994 Stubbs joined The Glass Heroes on drums again with Keith Jackson of the band Shock Therapy on guitar and vocals. The Glass Heroes released 7 songs on a compilation for distribution in Europe only..." Fair enough: maybe the article from back5 years ago was badly written, but the band is VERY FAR from "non-notable"! -signed- -andy (talk) 00:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

You will need to find sources to show that the band passes one or more of the criteria at WP:BAND. If more people have written about the band since the original article was deleted in 2006, it could well be that the band is notable in the Wikipedia sense now, even though it perhaps wasn't in 2006. Anyway, I see that you've posted at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion, so someone there may be able to dig out a copy of the old article for you to improve. (I can't do this because I'm not an admin). -- John of Reading (talk) 09:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Kenya institute of media and technology

Hi John I am having a mild difference of opinion with another editor on the above talk page. Could you please advise me or join the discussion please? --Greenmaven (talk) 11:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

It's doomed, I think. Before you could start improving it, you'd have to delete paragraphs 1, 3 and 4 as copyright violations. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

My first contribution: Michael Watts, journalist

Michael Watts (journalist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hello John, thank you for your welcoming advice. I hope that I have improved the format and content of my piece on Michael Watts, but I am having grave problems with my secondary references to prove Notability. Michael Watts is a well-known Fleet St columnist, journalist and broadcaster but, other than citing the national publications carrying his columns and features, it's difficult to find independent articles about him. He is mentioned in at least one book (I have included Forever Ambridge, the Archers history by Norman Painting, which has an anecdote about him), and the Fleet St website, which also carries his contributions. Is there anything else I can do to ensure my contribution is acceptable? Neetsdunne (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. The relevant subsections of the notability guidelines seem to be WP:CREATIVE and/or WP:ENT, so the article has a long way to go. The "Forever Ambridge" anecedote would be a start, since it shows that at least one author thought it worthwhile to write about Michael Watts - but the article doesn't say anything about the incident. Can you work it into the text? Something like "While working for Radio 4 he was accidentally locked in a cupboard with Grace Archer.<ref>"Forever Ambridge" p220 by Norman Painting, Michael Joseph, 1975. (ISBN 978 0 7181144221)</ref>." (this is nonsense of course, but I don't have the book). -- John of Reading (talk) 15:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that - sadly, the Archers incident is not nearly as juicy! But I will add that in. And would the Ranters refs help, too? Neetsdunne (talk) 16:26, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

If he was only a contributor to that website, then the link wouldn't help to show his notability. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I've now dug up some relevant cuts from national papers referring to Michael Watts, which I have added under External Links, and I hope that these will help to establish his notability. There are more, such as listings in the Radio Times, but I don't know if these would be useful? The Ranters website is a secondary source which also refers to him. The Archers anecdote is too trivial to be of much interest in the main textNeetsdunne (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

At the moment these external links are just to the home pages of the newspapers; when I click them I see today's news. To make them at all useful, you'll need to dig out a URL for the archived news stories that you have in mind. But if these pieces are merely written by Watts then they don't help to establish any notability, I'm afraid.

Yes, the External links prob occurred to me last night: sorry about that, was trying to do everything in too much of a rush. No, the archived news items aren't by Watts, he is part of the story. For instance, the Guardian item wonders how the Sunday Express columnist Michael Watts will cope once pound notes are abolished, given his famed Crisp Oncer prize for the Worst Corny Joke. The Daily Telegraph Peterborough column cites Watts' column while complaining about postal deliveries. The Independent Wallace Arnold column also refers to the Watts column; and so on. These are just a few of a dozen or more similar references. If I can't find an URL for those stories, how then can I establish notability? Is it possible to upload the relevant cuttings? Neetsdunne (talk) 11:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

It's fine to refer to sources even if you don't have a URL handy, as long as you give enough detail so that a hypothetical reader could, in theory, find a copy of the newspaper and check it for themselves. You need to work these into the text and use them as references. The {{cite news}} template can be used to format these nicely. Something like:
...and Watt's items in this column were frequently commented upon by other columnists<ref>{{cite news|work=The Sunday Express|title=Pound coins will cause trouble for Watts|date=1985-04-29|author=Joe Bloggs}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|work=Daily Telegraph|title=Whatever the title was|date=1986-12-30|author=Peterborough}}</ref>
-- John of Reading (talk) 11:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much, John! You are so helpful! Neetsdunne (talk) 16:21, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Have rewritten the Watts piece, and following your advice, hope that I have established notability to Wiki's satisfaction. Actually, as far as "notability" is concerned, appearance in the Sunday Express in its "glory days" would alone - apart from Watts's column in other publications - produce tremendous "notability". Every week for decades, in a publication whose sales peaked at over 5million - a big proportion of them upmarket (more than, say, the Sunday Times and the Observer combined) - meant a weekly readership of around 12million. Something TV producers can only dream of. My next 'problem' is uploading a picture of Watts. I have one that was taken by a friend at a social gathering and which Michael Watts has approved, and so it is copyright-free. Just not quite sure how to add it to the contribution.Neetsdunne (talk) 11:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

There's still very little evidence in the article that other people have thought it worthwhile to write about Watts, which is what's needed to meet Wikipedia's notability requirement. Reference 9 is a start. The other references only expand the text a little, giving the years.
You'll see that I've added a "by whom?" tag to one sentence. Presumably you have read that opinion somewhere. Can you dig out a proper source for it?
Alas, that picture is not copyright-free. I think the copyright will be owned by the friend who took the picture. To use it here, the simplest route would be for that friend to upload the picture, stating the source to be 'own work'; if you upload it, you will have to state who owns the copyright and then that person will have to send in an email. That's described at WP:DCM. It would be better to get the notability sorted out first. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I now have 13 (lucky for some!) secondary sources to prove notability, inserted as references. These include national newspapers and journals, specialist publications, trade journals and the Archers 'biography' by Norman Painting. All these mention Michael Watts in relation to his Sunday Express column or his broadcasts. And in External Links, the website Gentleman Ranters also carries objective references to him. I have also tidied up the layout of the contribution, so that it now follows the Wiki house style. Is there any chance of getting any of the caveats dropped from the intro? (She asks hopefully...) (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the {{Wikify}} notice. The article is much improved from when the tag was added; you've done a lot yourself, and by posting at Wikipedia:New contributors' help page/questions you attracted the attention of several experienced editors who have joined in. Most biographical articles have an infobox of some kind, but that's not essential; you could have a look at {{Infobox journalist}}.
The "verification" notice is still very relevant. Many facts in the article have no source: schooling, radio work, and those consumer awards. How is a reader to check those facts? (And how do you know them?)
The "notability" notice is still relevant, I think. Reference 5 and 10-19 are good, but they seem to show only that the column might be notable. References 1-4, 6-9 seem only to be adding detail to the text in the article; they don't tell a reader how to verify what's in the article. What's lacking, and may not exist, is anyone writing about Watts himself. If any of references 5 and 10-19 are about Watts himself and not his column, then it would be worth re-arranging the text to make this clear.
When I search at I only see pieces that are by him, not about him. If you have particular pages in mind, you should cite them (Have you come across {{cite web}} yet?).
Hope this helps! -- John of Reading (talk) 16:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello John - just added an infobox, though I am not sure why some of the entries (such as 'nickname' and 'birthdate/age') don't seem to appear in the final box. I now have a picture, taken by myself with Watts' permission, to upload, though I am still working out how to do this! I have added some more refs, including one for the Consumer Press Awards. I have tried to answer most of your points re.sources, though I am not sure how to 'prove' schooling. Certainly the information is there on the book jacket for 'I Say, I Say', and it will also be in the school's archives. I can verify much of the info personally, as I know Watts professionally and socially. Neetsdunne (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I've moved and tidied the infobox for you - templates are tricky. For the schooling, a book jacket is better than nothing, so I would add that in. For the picture upload, go to Commons:Upload and choose "Entirely my own work"; the form there may be a bit daunting, but get back to me here if you need help. It will be filled in with various defaults that you can leave alone. You will need to fill in the destination file name, date and description, and choose one of the "Licensing" options - one is marked "Recommended". -- John of Reading (talk) 16:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Many, many thanks, John, for all your help on this. As you see, the caveats have all been removed, and I have managed to add the pic. Couldn't have done it without you. You are a Star! Neetsdunne (talk) 11:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you for being the first editor to contact me when I was a newbie, and for subsequent assistance. Greenmaven (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! -- John of Reading (talk) 19:03, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Kool Eggs

Since an IP removed the speedy template without explanation, you could've just re-added it. No need for MFD. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 19:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't quite see that at Wikipedia:Deletion policy and wanted to play safe. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
It's a common sense thing. That removal of a speedy was obviously vandalism. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:11, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

For helping out with editing an article where the formatting of a table was too daunting for me as a newbie. You have done a good job of it, and very promptly. I have since added a photo, mucked up the formatting by mising out a "|", then corrected it and learned a bit in the process! Curlymop (talk) 17:55, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Glad to have helped! -- John of Reading (talk) 21:30, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

A smile for you

Boywithsmile.jpg Smile
It makes me smile to see someone so civil with new editors. I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 18:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your encouragement. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!


you were always there when i needed your help. how amazing is that? ...... without you i could not make it john. .........please accept my deepest purrrr.....

pishoo (talk) 18:31, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Meow! -- John of Reading (talk) 18:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

ditto meowww... ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mabellapishoo (talkcontribs) 21:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

john, i do not have a picture of the key to Vancouver City but consider/ imagine it uploaded here and accept my invitation. i will be honord to be your host.pishoo (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

Brownie transparent.png Great job at the Help desk!!!

Now that I've buttered you up: I'm guessing you might see my post at the Talk page of the Help desk, which is really just a link to VPM, but as you are one of the stalwarts at Help, I wanted to alert you to it. In short, I'm having trouble getting editors to review Feedback requests, so the suggestion is to bring the mountain to Mohammed. I was initially opposed, but I'm warming tot he idea. Do you think we could make it work? SPhilbrickT 19:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the brownie, it was delicious!
Personally I would have trouble with feedback requests turning up the HD. HD requests about articles tend to be about a single issue ("I've scrambled the table in article XYZ", "What is the template that does ABC?", "Why was I reverted?"). Feedback requests tend to be open-ended ("Please review my article XYZ"). I've never tried answering feedback requests; nor have I tried NPP. I would need some kind of mentoring/training before I could confidently tackle those.
I tend to have the HD to myself from UTC 9:00 to 12:00, so by the time the Americans wake up there could be a backlog of feedback requests.
I'll keep thinking, though. I'm off to bed now. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I understand. That's why I posted to you, as you might be more affected than others. I'm mulling over trying it as a short-term experiment, but will think on it a bit more before proposing that formally.--SPhilbrickT 01:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Hello John

i was back today after a long absenc to upload some photos to the wiki site foad rafii but i noticed some strange page appeared after i searched foad rafii. there is a page exactly like wikipedia but all the words containg L shows with word L changed to w. do you have any idea what that could possibly be?pishoo (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC)pishoo

No, that's a new one on me. Some thoughts:
  • Were you definitely at Wikipedia and not at some look-alike site? Check the URL. Wikipedia is such a popular site that hackers/opportunists have set up misleading sites with domains such as to catch people who can't spell.
  • Are you still having the problem? Try a copy+paste of the bad text into Word, or similar, and then apply a new font to it - is it an "L" that looks like a "w" (a font problem), or is it really a "w" (a browser malware problem). Try a reboot. Try it from a different computer (malware on the first computer?).
...but really I have no idea. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:53, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

John, this is the link to that site: it looks exactly like foad rafii wikipedia page but with a wierd spelling!pishoo (talk) 21:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

What a strange site! It calls itself the "Elmer Fudd Wikipedia", referring to a cartoon character Elmer Fudd. Bizarre. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

what do you suggest john? should i go on my talk page and cry for HELP? can wikipedian do anything about it?pishoo (talk) 23:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is the "free encyclopedia", and its content is available for re-use even in a modified form. But the site is running a "live mirror", so I've reported it at m:Live mirrors. They are also misusing the Wikipedia and Wikimedia logos; I'll have a think about where to post about that. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:50, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot John!!!!!!16:59, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Good morning John! i found this: when i searched farther through the link you suggested about live mirroring to undo the mirroring but i could not follow through ( do not understand the first part). ... I soooo know this is too much to ask BUT please could you help me with that, or suggest some other source of help/ support for this type of problems? i will ask for help on my talk page too...see what happens. pishoo (talk) 17:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

That looks complicated! And it is something that you have to install on your computer, to stop Wikipedia mirrors showing up when you do a Google search. It won't influence Google's behaviour when other people search for him. Presumably you know how to get to the real Foad Rafii article, so what's the point? -- John of Reading (talk) 18:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh i see!!! i thought it will totally stop that mirror site to be seen when other people are also looking for this wiki page or this person! thank you again for your prompt help john!pishoo (talk) 18:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

look at this john! pishoo (talk) 17:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Daft! I wonder how long that site will stay up? The pages seem to have slots for advertising, but it hasn't attracted any yet. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Good Help with Wikipedia Nuclear Notations - Thanks

Thanks for your suggestion to try a different browser to resolve the text formating issue of alignment of characters on isotope symbols. You saved me beaucoup frustration! My FireFox 2.0 was rendering the Nuclear Notations (and other) wiki pages with the hard-to-read offset formating but when I switched to IE 6.0 everything displayed just fine.

I've now noticed that some authors have gotten around this browser disparate display issue of isotopes and nuclear reactions on Wikipedia by using the math template (i. e. see so that the display is the same in IE and Firefox.

Thanks so much again for the help with my first editing efforts!


Delphwhite (talk) 11:07, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

OK. Glad to have helped! -- John of Reading (talk) 14:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Back to uploading photos

me again John, i still am not very clear about permissions on photos and how it really works. so what i am going to do is to start uploading those photos that Mr. Rafii took himself. is there any format for the author permission that i can ask him to hand me so i can pass it to wiki/ ah i am confused..............  :( pishoo (talk) 18:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

My earlier advice on this is now at User talk:John of Reading/Archive 3#Foad Rafii pictures. I'm not sure that I can give you fully correct advice on this, so I think you should ask at Media copyright questions. Explain there who took the pictures and who you think holds the copyright in them. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
I see that you've uploaded File:Spring Project-Austin-Texas-2010-Rafii.JPG. Let's see how good my advice was by waiting to see what happens to that first picture! You need to get the copyright holder (Mr Rafii?) to send the email. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I shall do that john! Thank you!!!pishoo (talk) 21:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

John, do you have the address to where he should send the permission? (what a sentence!-today is my strange English day ;) pishoo (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Got it from another volunteer, john! here it is: "permissions-en (at)". pishoo (talk) 19:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Beauty pageant templates

You asked to continue the discussion here. {{Miss Universe Organization titleholders}}, {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}}, {{Miss Earth titleholders}}, {{Miss World Continental Queen of Beauty Titleholders}} are the only templates that I will be taking the time to convert correctly. It seems prevelent in the beauty pageant project for navboxes to be done in the confusing way they have been done in the past. There are numerous additional templates being done the wrong way, and I can only pick and choose a few that I will take the time to correct. As I edit, I can keep track of others, but I don't know if my list will be complete. {{Vanbros titleholders}} and {{Greenwood Productions titleholders}} are two that come to mind. I will drop others here as I run across them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I've added the "below" parameter to the last two. If you look at the diff, you'll see that this is straightforward. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Here are some more: {{Carousel Production Inc. titleholders}} {{Miss Philippines-Earth titleholders}} {{Miss Chile Titleholders}}--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Also {{Big Four Pageants titleholders 2010}} is an example of problems with the v/d/e buttons. Plus each Miss XXX link is going off somewhere unusual.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
OK. I've edited those three so that they accept "name" and "below"; and I've edited {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}} again so that it accepts "name" as well as "below". The "Miss XXX" links are just wikilinks that you'll find hiding inside {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}}, so I hope you can see how to fix those. I'll be off to bed soon... -- John of Reading (talk) 20:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Here's another {{Miss Dominican Republic Organization titleholders}}.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:42, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Done. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
I have only created the recent years for the first four requested above. I am done on this project. I left notes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Beauty Pageants and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lists--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:08, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


Rcsprinter (talk) 15:30, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clean up

Thanks for the clean up--SPhilbrickT 18:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

No problem - please do the same for me when it's needed. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


Hello, regarding my contribution that you have help delete and pass the burden of proof on to me. Although, I personally find it extremely un-tasteful that the burden of proof is on me, where the evidence is all over the Philippines. In fact, even when I have found all the evidence to support my claim, it will eventually be delete by the Philippine government using personal account.

Allow me to be blunt, once I produce all the evidence (which I already found, reliable evidence, but trying to figure how to link or post it in wiki, awaiting instruction from my mentor), can you assist by ensuring it will never be deleted again. If I am not wrong, I can be promoted to be the administrator of that article and it will never be able to be delete by any other party through Protection Request.

Please do understand, my whole intention is that the truth must be known by the public.

Thanks Spawn (talk) 09:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Philippine Overseas Employment Administration (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Thank you for coming here to discuss this.
When you have found reliable sources to back up your text, feel free to put it back into the article. Once the material has sources, it will be a proper part of the encyclopedia text. Unexplained removal of sourced material is often treated as vandalism, and you, I, or any other editor can restore it.
But the text will not normally be protected from editing - see the protection policy - and you will certainly not be made the "administrator of that article" - see Wikipedia:Ownership of articles. Other editors will revise the text if they disagree with your interpretation of the sources, or may find new sources that give different views. You will have to live with that, and discuss issues on the talk page as they arise.
You might also like to read the essay Wikipedia:Truth. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:27, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


Sorry for wasting your time checking out Bampublore's help request. I thought it best to leave the request up there because s/he was clearly a little fragile and my assistance yesterday had not satisfied her/him. However, yes, I think it is all ok now judging by the recent response. - Sitush (talk) 18:58, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Darn it! Spoke to soon. She wants someone to review what I have said. - Sitush (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Your answer is much better than anything I could have written! Perhaps the new "helpme" will attract more helpers... -- John of Reading (talk) 19:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it is now certain that the user is a sock. OK, the SPI is somewhere in the queue but the stylistic evidence has amassed to a truly astonishing level of loud quacking. Various people who have knowledge of the past evasions etc + the original issues of the sockmaster have agreed regarding this. It is a shame, but what can we do? It is particularly unfortunate that the same mistakes keep being made upon the returns: nothing at all is being learned with regard to contributing here. Even accusing me of being the sockpuppet follows the pattern seen previously. I am many things, but not one of those!
Reading, eh? You may be my brother. If you are, don't forget the £100 you owe me. <g> - Sitush (talk) 00:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Not me, gov, none of my siblings would display a Peterhouse, Cambridge user box, honest! -- John of Reading (talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Help desk query

I am not sure if you understand my issue at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Navbox_with_collapsible_groups_liststyle_not_working.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I think Redrose64 (talk · contribs) has dealt with this, but just in case: If you add | groupstyle = background: Red;color:white; to each call to {{Navbox subgroup}}, then the "year" redlinks will sit on a red background. I can't see any option that will change the colour of the red or blue article links. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:16, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Choco chip cookie.png thanks for help!

Mike28968 (talk) 19:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

With chocolate chips! Thanks! -- John of Reading (talk) 19:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer...but

What I'm trying to do is have a template that shows when a page was last edited (as a personal project). I use the {{REVISIONDAY}}, {{REVISIONMONTH}}, and {{REVISIONYEAR}} tags. The issue is that the {{REVSIONMONTH}} tag only shows the month name as a number. I was hoping for a function that could convert that Magic word's output into a different style, something in the form of {{#convert:{{REVISIONMONTH}}}} Any ideas? Thanks, Magister Scienta 28 Template:SUNST:CURRENTMONTH 2011

You can feed REVISIONMONTH into MONTHNAME like this: {{MONTHNAME|{{REVISIONMONTH}}}} says "August". -- John of Reading (talk) 16:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, Magister Scientatalk 29 July 2011
hold on a second, I tried that on a page that had last been edited in march and the code you gave me returned "July". What should I do? Magister Scientatalk 29 July 2011
What did you do when you "tried it"? If you paste this code into an article and either save the edit or preview it, then the REVISION-xxx codes all return facts about the edit that is being made. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:15, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

User SDC

Thank you for catching my typo. in Template:User SDC. — Robert Greer (talk) 16:56, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Fixing "the the" errors is one of my pet projects. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


You asked, and you shall receive. {{Welcomeen-zh}} - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 10:53, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure it'll get used one day! -- John of Reading (talk) 10:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


Thank you very much for helping me get started. I have moved the 'Draw a Scientist' page into mainspace and will gradually work on cleaning up the references and following any good suggestions. Abandonall (talk) 04:57, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Shikhbala Abulfas Aliyev

Thanks for message. A Google search found one item other than the Wikipedia article, so questionable notability. However, notability was asserted, and the unsourced blp was an error since he is dead. The article was in fact an over the top obituary, cut and pasted from who knows where (no wikilinks etc)

Sample text, same as you indicated, includes to that galaxy of scientists...most prestige university at that time with the most powerful professorial-teachers... brilliantly defended the dissertation... We can proudly say... and that's just from the first paragraph. I've restored and deleted again as advertising/promotion and an obituary.

In my opinion this article is irredeemable. If you still think it should be restored, I'll do that, but I'll leave it to you to decide whether to prod/AfD or improve it. thanks, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:20, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

No, don't restore it. Thanks for revising the deletion message, though, as now I've been able to write something more relevant at User talk:Azad Aliyev. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:33, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Latin/Greek Grep

I'll take whatever form you can give it to me in. Just having article names is OK, specific occurances would be better, but not if it takes you much more work (I can drop the appropriate text into a UNIX window that turns the greek letters into periods and look for anything next to a period in the appropriate area (so if I see an (A..), I know that the A needs to be turned into an Alpha. Just create a page under my user with the info and let me know the name. Thank you!Naraht (talk) 17:24, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

It will just be a list of article names. Don't hold your breath; I'll try to get it done this evening (UK time). -- John of Reading (talk) 17:25, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
That's fine. I expect a *lot* of American Colleges/Universities. It happens when it happens, I've been doing this piecemeal for a month or so. :)Naraht (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Percentagewise fewer Colleges/Universities than I expected, but then there were certain groups of pages that I didn't expect. It looks like there were "lazy editors" on a bunch of Greek Military & coinage pages, a number of uses of Delta T and Delta H in chemistry articles that *should* be there and a bunch of pages that don't fall into other category.Naraht (talk) 19:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

thanks for stepping in

and for giving me some help. I will look at your example and try to work out what to do. Really appreciate your time. (Nbfa (talk) 08:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC))

I see that Alexf has given you a user name warning. I'm sorry I didn't spot this yesterday. If you are editing on behalf of the charity, then please read through the FAQ page for organisations. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:52, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG Thanks for helping in archiving pages! Tito Dutta (Talk) 12:56, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Excellent! But I won't eat them until I've seen that the bot has worked properly. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG Figured Baklava would be appropriate for showing appreciation for help with the Greek Alphabet! Naraht (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Wonderful stuff, no objection to having two platefuls. -- John of Reading (talk) 13:33, 3 August 2011 (UTC)