User talk:Kansas Bear

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For the next accusation of Anti-Turk/racism[edit]

[1]/[2] -- "that source doesn't seem to be very on-topic..."

About Erim Turukku[edit]

After some looking into how to do it, I just opened an SPI on EMr KnG / Erim Turukku, you can see it at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/EMr KnG. If you have something to add, etc feel free to do it. --Sundostund 19:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Khwarazmian dynasty[edit]

Sock perhaps? I presume you have it on your watch list. Dougweller (talk) 20:14, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

If it is, then I'm not sure who it would be. Aside from the unilateral article move, the removal of Persianate could be justified, since the sources do not support it. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:15, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Judging from the previous attempts to remove Persianate and the level of English used, there is a slight chance it might be User:BozokluAdam[3]. Although, I do not know why BozokluAdam would use a sockpuppet, since he/she is not currently blocked. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:15, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Maybe not then. Although doesn't seem new. Please keep an eye on the editor/article. Babur problem resolved? Dougweller (talk) 12:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

anti[edit]

Well many American politicians have anti national sentiments. Anti Iranian, Anti North Korean, Anti Cuban, Anti Mexican... -Esc2003 (talk) 10:49, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

That's nice. Do you have source(s) for that? --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:45, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Dandanaqan[edit]

Well if the king of the Kakuyid dynasty aided the Seljuqs wouldn't it count that that his kingdom helped the Seljuqs? --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I have copy & pasted this to the article's talk page. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:47, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013[edit]

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Yavuz Sultan Selim Bridge[edit]

Hello Bear, Why would you remove a correction when I specifically mentioned the reason for my edit, "No mention of trees being cut + Italian company Astaldi, has denied the claims." Did you even check the reference? Yozer1 (talk) 16:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

My edit had nothing to do with trees or Astaldi, instead it restored referenced information removed by you, again, under a false edit summary.[4] Whereas, at Slavery in the Ottoman Empire, you removed referenced information twice[5][6], with the last removal an attempt to make the issue personal, "Undid revision 574896810 by Kansas Bear (talk) Thanks for your bias Kansas Bear". And then, oddly did not feel obliged to explain yourself on the talk page![7]
I have noticed you are about to be indefinitely topic banned due to your bias, it is quite clear you should be checking your own edits and not the edits of others. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Talkback[edit]

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Talkback[edit]

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The Wikipedia Library Survey[edit]

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi t | c 15:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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  • ''Abu al-Hasan Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari''' ({{lang-fa|علی ابن سهل ربان طبری }}) (c. 838 – c. 870 [[Common Era|CE]]; also given as 810–855 was a [[Persian people|Persian]]<ref name="

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Do you know about this publisher[edit]

Global Vision -- on this page [8] - if you don't, it's useful to know. Dougweller (talk) 22:03, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I believe I have changed/replaced any I may have used. Thanks, Doug. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:06, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013[edit]

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Talkback[edit]

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Henry VII[edit]

Yes, you are right, but unfortunately the edit you made wasn't. See the diff [9]. You actually restored one of his nonsensical inclusions and broke links by restoring misspellings. I'd already reverted the edit you commented on on the talk page. I'm sure this was a mistake, but you just made matters a bit more confused. Paul B (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Mistakes happen. :) Paul B (talk) 16:51, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Please comment[edit]

  1. See Talk:Saib Tabrizi, last section and cited sources.
  2. Talk:Nizami Ganjavi, section "Azerbaijani name of Nizami Ganjavi". Zyma (talk) 16:40, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
You are not interested on those articles? Please reply here or on my talkpage. Thanks. --Zyma (talk) 17:12, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The Nizami Ganjavi issue was decided by DR, was it not? As for Saib Tabrizi, the sources state he was a Persian poet. Correct? --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:29, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I noticed you have edited Kadir Mısıroğlu in Turkish Wikipedia.[edit]

According to this source, written by Fatma Muge Gocek, ed. edited by I. Gershoni, Y. Hakan Erdem, Ursula Woköck, Histories of the Modern Middle East: New Directions, page 208, Kadir Mısıroğlu is an amateur historian[10] and much imprisoned Islamist lawyer. Also, user:Yozer1 is attempting to create an English version of Kadir Mısıroğlu,[11] although I do not see any source calling him a historian. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:04, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he is "not" a historian, he is just interested in history :)--Rapsar (talk) 18:47, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
In your opinion, would the Gocek source be reliable enough to place "amateur" in front of "historian" when/if Yozer1 adds Kadir Mısıroğlu to English Wikipedia? --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:50, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
He just writes articles about history. Is that makes him a (amateur) historian? I don't think so. Murat Bardakçı and tr:Mustafa Armağan writes about history, but they do not call themlselves a "historian". I did a little research about Fatma Müge Göçek and I think her work would be a reliable source; but I'm not sure that there is a term called "amateur historian".--Rapsar (talk) 19:24, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Ok. Well Yozer1 is in the process of creating a stub article about Kair Mısıroğlu calling him a historian. Was just curious as to how to source it. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:27, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
He is notable enough as "writer, journalist and poet" :) Have a nice day :)--Rapsar (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes[edit]

No problem ever. Dougweller (talk) 17:23, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 10[edit]

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Afd[edit]

Hi Kansas Bear. I don't think this article is notable. Can you nominate it for deletion? Have a nice day.--Rapsar (talk) 18:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Sock[edit]

Hi, with regard to this bizarre exchange I am in agreement about the suspicions, and I also think there's something funny about the interaction with the Studies user, who seems rather familiar with pinging and article deletions in spite of only a few hundred edits. Maproom and I had a conversation about this very subject a few days ago. The primary actor created an article that was an entire plagiarism job, copy/pasted from a PDF, so it's a little odd that they're somehow experts in article deletion and quality control. Many of the edits created by the primary actor have been reverted as troublesome. If you step through the diffs here you'll see a few mistakes, including adding an orphan tag where absolutely not warranted, and botching wikilinks. I apologize for the cagey language, I just don't want to throw around accusations blindly. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:27, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014[edit]

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Badr al-Jamali[edit]

Put Link for Badr al-Jamali in the article Hassan-i Sabbah 68.100.160.250 (talk) 18:56, 3 February 2014 (UTC) 68.100.160.250 (talk) 18:58, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Hassan-i Sabbah[edit]

I left comment about ethnicity issue on talking page[12], apparently there was misunderstanding about quotes from books so there's no disruptive editing. And don't get me wrong, I'm neither anti/pro Arab/Persian, just noting that ethnicity claims don't make any sense.--109.165.172.48 (talk) 20:43, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

We are not here to "make sense"(ie. interpret what sources say. We report what reliable sources state, not what they do not state. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:46, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
That's precisely what I wrote on talking page. Because no sources say either Arab or Persian, most comments including yours were interpretations. --109.165.172.48 (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Wrong. I presented two sources stating his father was of Arab origins, including links. Are you saying the two sources do not state this? --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Dude you got me wrong. I searched for Daftary's book in my library, found first about Ismailites and opened it, and saw quote without "Arab". So I assumed you're doing something nasty by inserting such word in Daftary's quote on talking page. Of course, you assumed the same when I excluded same word from article, because book which you consulted actually include it. So neither one of us were nasty or something. If you check my longer comment once again, you'll see that five among six identical quotes from same author (Daftary) and from different works doesn't contain word "Arab". I'm not telling this to play childish arguments "five beats one" or "five beats your two", just to explain mutual misunderstanding. Others may ask you why among six similar quotes you took just one with "Arab" word, or claim edition from 2007 was usruped by some "Persophobic pan-Arab", and so on. Neither of sources which you presented say "Hassan-i Sabbah was Arab", they speak about his father origins and say he "claimed Yamani origins" and he was "probably Arab". Of course, such informations sould be included in biography details, but I'm against inserting "....was an Arab" in opening line because it isn't supported by reliable sources. It's interesting for me that you didn't find claims about "Persian", but they also exist - for example Laurence Lockhart [13] claimed "Though claiming Himyaritic ancestry, Hasan was both by birth and upbringing a Persian." and Charles E. Nowell [14] calls him "Hassan Sabbah the Persian". Now what should we do, to be "pro-Persian" and say such sources speak more specific about Hassan himself, or be "anti-Persian" and say these are outdated works? My advice is to avoid both ethnic and overcat wars, to say he was "a Nizārī missionary" in first line and explain details in his biography. As I said on talking page, three major informations are missing: : that little information is available on his early life, that primary works about his life have been lost, and that many informations about him comes from legends.--109.165.172.48 (talk) 01:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

As I have said many times, if someone could produce a source for Persian ethnicity then we should list both or in this case mention, "Charles E. Nowell and Laurance Lockhart state he was Persian, while Daftary states Hassan's father was of Arab origin."
Intriguing, I always wondered what a JSTOR search would find. Wish I still had access to JSTOR. Simply report what the source(s) state. I'm not sure the age of Nowell's or Lockhart's articles would be an issue. I would not exclude either of them. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:08, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
First one is: Laurence Lockhart, Ḥasan-i-Ṣabbāh and the Assassins, Bulletin of the School of Oriental Studies, University of London, Vol. 5, No. 4 (1930), pp. 675-696. Second one is: Charles E. Nowell, The Old Man of the Mountain, Medieval Academy of America, Speculum, Vol. 22, No. 4 (Oct., 1947), pp. 497-519. Academic oldies for sure, but Daftary still refers to first one. Another quote: "Hasan as-Sabbah was an Isma'ili propagandist or da'i of Persian origin." can be found in more modern work by Cyril Glassé, The New Encyclopedia of Islam, Rowman Altamira, 2003, page 64[15]. In any case, I wouldn't arrange sentence as "some say Persian, other say Arab" because there's no such scolarly dispute. All of them agrees that he's born/raised as Persian, and that his father is probably of Arab origin because he claimed Yamanite line. In Lewis book The Assassins (page 38), it says his father: "was said to be of Yemeni origins - more fancifully, a descendant of the ancient Himyaritic kings of Southern Arabia.". Perhaps this way should be better to arange: Born and raised as Persian [link to "Persia/Iran" not "Persian people", sources above], he was son of Kufan man of possible Arab origins because his father claimed to be of Yamanite line [Daftary, Willey, Lewis].. Personally, for me it's intriguing that Daftary in sentence (from mentioned six sources) somewhere states his father was "Kufan" or "migrated from Kufa". I found this very confusing because on this Iranica's article about Qom[16] it says Kufans migrated to Qom from 8th to mid 9th century, while Hassan-i Sabbah was born in mid 11th century.--109.165.134.57 (talk) 03:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014[edit]

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Bonjour![edit]

Nice to be greeted by you. Am not really back because too busy outside of Wikipedia, just popping in once in a while.

May I wish you a "happy new year" on this date in March? Never saw any rule against it... Au revoir! --Frania W. (talk) 20:36, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine! It was nice to see you back anyway and I completely understand being busy outside of Wikipedia! Hope it is warm where you are, we just finished a "nice" stretch of subzero temperatures here in Kansas. Take care, Frania! --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:47, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I think that last winter decided to remain in N. America. There was hardly any where I live & spring is arriving a good month ahead.
Are you considering changing your name to... Polar Bear? Hope you're doing well. Cordialement!--Frania W. (talk) 22:26, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
LOL. No, nothing so drastic. Things are fine here. Just getting ready for the tornado season! "woo hoo". --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:42, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014[edit]

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Did you[edit]

See my WP:AN proposal for a ban for an editor? Dougweller (talk) 18:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Yep. Voted and commented. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:40, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Ibn Khaldoun[edit]

Hello there. I seen some of your good contributions on the Ibn Khaldoun Talk page. You certainly seem to know what your talking about, and your talk page seems to show that you are a senior editor here on Wikipedia and are quite familiar with the Nationalist types plaguing every virtually every Middle-Eastern related article on here. I would really appreciate your thoughs and help in cleaning that article up from more POV-pushing. I have started a section on the Talk page called "Mohammed Enan" regarding a very unreliable and uninformative source, here's the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ibn_Khaldun#Mohammed_Enan Thanks for your time. SaSH172 (talk) 07:37, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014[edit]

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Any idea[edit]

as to who that is, since you and he haven't any articles in common. I reverted him and warned him. Dougweller (talk) 17:26, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Besides that article? Not really. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

John I, Duke of Brabant[edit]

Sir, I saw your revert of my well-meant addition to John I, Duke of Brabant. If the form was incorrect, as you seem to imply, may I invite you to implement corrections in a more constructive way, since you seem to be better acquainted with this wikipedia than my poor self. In one way or another, a reference to the song is worth mentioning, so if my way to do so was not correct then please apply a better one. Thanks in advance, Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:13, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

It is up to you to provide reliable sources for your addition(s). --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:25, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 ??? Are you saying that nl.wikipedia.org (to which I referred) is not a reliable source??? Baffled, Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
I guess you did not read the link given above. "Tertiary sources such as compendia, encyclopedias, textbooks, obituaries, and other summarizing sources may be used to give overviews or summaries, but should not be used in place of secondary sources for detailed discussion. Although Wikipedia articles are tertiary sources, Wikipedia employs no systematic mechanism for fact checking or accuracy. Because Wikipedia forbids original research, there is nothing reliable in it that isn't citable with something else. Thus Wikipedia articles (or Wikipedia mirrors) are not reliable sources for any purpose." --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I did check the link, but have obviously missed the relevant paragraph. Funny, though, that wikipedia doesn't consider itself as reliable. Perhaps, instead of referring to another WP article, I should have referred to that article's references? Above all, I could have wished for a more constructive intervention on your behalf, but thanks just the same. Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:51, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Apion[edit]

Footnote 40 here and pp 243-244 and note 116 here] are possibly better. Against Apion also has the same statement Rarevogel added, but it was added in 2006 by an IP. Dougweller (talk) 14:35, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 19[edit]

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Hi[edit]

Hi Kansas. Can you check the Kyrgyz people article? I dont understood the unrevert reason. Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 19:56, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? Which unrevert in particular? --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:44, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
It's about Kyrgyz peoples' genetics. User florian removed a sources. If you check the view history and talk page of artcile, you'll see. This is a revision of florian's removed. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyrgyz_people&diff=603388395&oldid=603388016 Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 20:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
The link you left is not a link to Florian removing references. It is user:Su4kin adding sources which prima facie appear questionable. This linkHaplogroup R1a as the Proto Indo-Europeans and the Legendary Aryans as Witnessed by the DNA of Their Current Descendants is a 404 Error.
Here[17], Florian says the source does not state what was written into the article. You will have to bring your sources and facts, from these sources, to the talk page, not simply questioning him as to why he removed the information from the article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:01, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
The source is not mine. And the link is fine. http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=17707#.U3psV_l_tv4 Maybe just you can't open the url. And what is that mean exactly: "Florian says the source does not state what was written into the article" huh? You think this is a reason? Please be cooperative and neutral. Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 21:09, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I did a quick search of the journal, I found Turkic only once located the last page listed in the references, "http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Turkic/default.aspx?section=yresults". I found nothing within the journal to support, "Proto-Turkic" as added by user:Su4kin. Which page of the journal does it mention "proto-Turkic"? --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:21, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Ctrl+F is not helped you I guess. Of cource. That region -mentioned in the journal- were and still turkic peoples' living region. But you're insistently searching a "proto-turkic" word. Fine. But the new dna research decline to relationship between r1a and Indo-Europeans. So; I'am asking, this sentece is ture: "haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) is often believed to be a marker of the Proto-Indo-European language speakers"? Can you correct this? Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 21:37, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Are you not going to answer my question? On which page in the journal, "Haplogroup R1a as the Proto Indo-Europeans and the Legendary Aryans as Witnessed by the DNA of Their Current Descendants", does it mention "Proto-Turkic"? --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, same point. OK. There is not a "proto-turkic" word. Fine? Now your turn. Are you going to answer my question? this sentence correct? "haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) is often believed to be a marker of the Proto-Indo-European language speakers"? Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 21:58, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Therefore, user:Su4kin falsified the source simply to add "Proto Turkic". As for whether the sentence, "haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) is often believed to be a marker of the Proto-Indo-European language speakers", is "correct" or not, what do the sources for that sentence state? We are talking sources here, ok, same point, the source(s) have to support what the sentence says. It is very clear that you do not like this sentence, "marker of the Proto-Indo-European language speakers", and your dislike of said sentence is not a viable reason to remove it. Maybe you should take your own advice, " be cooperative and neutral" and avoid accusing other editors of vandalism and/or nationalistic agendas. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Don't deformed my words. This is nothing about personel "feelings". But it seems Florian's (and maybe your's) actions opposite that. The information about r1a is not certain. If you can read, I gave you a source's link. Still can't you understand that simple fact? Clearly, you don't want to get your hands dirty. Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 22:39, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
There is something "personal" when you state that Florian's removal of a false reference is vandalism[18] and nationalistic POV.[19] Clearly you are quite biased about this issue. You have presented no facts to support your opinion about this matter and now are accusing me of taking actions on an article I have never edited! I believe we are done here. Do not post on my talk page again. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:44, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Kansas Bear/Kyrgyz R1a[edit]

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Sorry meant for it to be a work page. I have moved it and made it one. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:05, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014[edit]

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Question[edit]

Any advise on how i should deal with this guy? [20] --Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust (talk) 19:07, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Start a discussion on the talk page, bring sources to support your position. If Anonim.lion does not respond within a week revert back to original. If you are reverted by Anonim.lion at that point, contact an Admin to have the page protected. If Anonim.lion does respond then work towards a consensus. That is how I would do it. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:50, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. --Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust (talk) 09:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

watch article[edit]

Can you watch this article in light of recent deletions of sourced material? (Especially after the second person not only deleted material but committed copyright violation by copying new material directly from the .edu source, and original research by analyzing the newspaper article) Thanks.Rajmaan (talk) 18:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

He keeps on adding his copyvio and his own commentary on the newspaper article, which violate WP:COPYVIO and WP:OR and instead of listening he just started aping what I said in his edit summary. He did stop deleting content but he doesn't seem to understand copyvio and that you can't copy directly form the source.Rajmaan (talk) 20:08, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi[edit]

Could you look at the talk page of the article EOKA please? ArordineriiiUkhtt (talk) 06:05, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Also this. I have fixed the grammar (a/an). Sorry, I forget to add it. Does the article need it or doesn't? I do not know the policy well. Therefore, I want to ask it to you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArordineriiiUkhtt (talkcontribs) 06:11, 16 June 2014 (UTC)


Armenia[edit]

Re: this edit, I wonder if you could join the discussion here. I am trying to understand what should be a consistent policy toward these 'former entities'. Brad Dyer (talk) 00:19, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:32, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

hi[edit]

can you protect the page " List of Turkic dynasties and countries" I do not want anyone to destroy the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mehmeett21 (talkcontribs) 22:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

No. Contact an admin. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
And if this IP82.209.191.118 is you, I would warn you against editing while logged out. Protection can only be done due to edit warring or vandalism, not for your ownership of the article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue C, July 2014[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2014 (UTC)