User talk:Kerry Raymond

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Fowlers Bay[edit]

Nice work on all those images! :) ~ Riana 21:47, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually... nice work all around, turning my crappy little stub into quite a decent article. Well done! :) ~ Riana 22:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

List of mayors and lord mayors of Brisbane[edit]

Original Barnstar.png Great work filling out this list, Kerry. Thankyou. :) And hang on... you're that Kerry Raymond...? Small world! :P FiggyBee (talk) 14:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Bridges[edit]

Hi Kerry, I have been doing a bit of research on Thomas Bridges. I have been trying to find his burial record on the Council website but am having no luck. This is about the first time I have not been able to find a record for someone buried in a council cemetery and was just wondering how accurate the records are of your source.

I am also doing some work on the Nundah Cemetery in my Sandbox and as Thomas is mentioned there I would like to be able to confirm it. I am also having the same problem for both of his parents as well.

Any help you give would be most appreciated. Rocketrod1960 07:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
for the wonderful input you're giving at the strategy wiki. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 07:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


I have tagged one of the articles you contributed to (Lucy Osburn) for WikiProject Women's History. It's a new project, and it's just getting started. Many of the project members are new to Wikipedia, and we could use more experienced editors. We have a number of Australia-related "missing articles" on our requested articles list. If you'd like to see what we're about, check out our project page. You'd be most welcome. - PKM (talk) 23:12, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Have you played with watchlists?
There's an empty star next to "view history" on the top menu of every page. If you click the star, it adds the page your "watchlist". By default, every page you edit is also added to your watchlist. If you click "My Watchlist" link in the upper right corner, you'll see every page that has been changed in the last 7 days and you can see if anyone has changed a page since you posted there.
It's a bit cumbersome, but it's what we have. If you ask a specific question somewhere, you can also ask people to respond on your talk page, so you'll get the pop-up notification. Most people will do that. - PKM (talk) 00:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


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If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 13:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Women's History[edit]

Hi Kerry, I was tidying up the Members List today and on checking Category:WikiProject Women's History members, found your name. I've taken the liberty of adding it to the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History/Participants. We use that list for contacting members about important discussions, project news, etc. and I didn't want you to miss out. If you no longer consider yourself a participant or would rather it not appear on the list, feel free to remove your name. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 07:39, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Me again. Following this suggestion from another project member, I've removed your name from the list and will leave it up to you to re-add it. Or just drop a note my talk page, and I'll be happy to re-add it for you. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:20, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Request for permission to use image[edit]

Hello, Kerry Raymond. I'd like use your upload image Malleefowl-camouflage on portuguese page pt:Faisão Australiano. I tried using the image on this page but I did not get it, help me if you could. Thank you! --Kertwonesty (talk) 17:59, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

The problem was solved, the picture is already appearing. Thanks! Kertwonesty (talk) 02:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's Collaborative[edit]

WikiWomen Unite!
Hi Kerry Raymond! Women around the world who edit and contribute to Wikipedia are coming together to celebrate each other's work, support one another, and engage new women to also join in on the empowering experience of shaping the sum of all the world's knowledge - through the WikiWomen's Collaborative.

As a WikiWoman, we'd love to have you involved! You can do this by:

We can't wait to have you involved, and feel free to drop by our meta page (under construction) to see how else you can get involved!

Can't wait to have you involved! SarahStierch (talk) 04:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your contributions to Brisbane, it's people, and it's history. Great job! Rocketrod1960 21:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's Collaborative: Come join us (and check out our new website)![edit]

WikiWomen - We need you!
WWC logo purple and blue.png
Hi Kerry Raymond! The WikiWomen's Collaborative is a group of women from around the world who edit Wikipedia, contribute to its sister projects, and support the mission of free knowledge. We recently updated our website, created new volunteer positions, and more!

Get involved by:

  • Visiting our website for resources, events, and more
  • Meet other women and share your story in our profile space
  • Participate at and "like" our Facebook group
  • Join the conversation on our Twitter feed
  • Reading and writing for our blog channel
  • Volunteer to write for our blog, recruit blog writers, translate content, and co-run our Facebook and receive perks for volunteering
  • Already participating? Take our survey and share your experience!

Thanks for editing Wikipedia, and we look forward to you being a part of the Collaborative! -- EdwardsBot (talk) 01:28, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Happy Australia Day! Thank you for contributing to Australian content![edit]

Awards Announcement (Australia Day Eve, 2005).jpg Australian Wikimedian Recognition (AWR)
Thank you for your contributions on English Wikipedia that have helped improve Australian related content. :D It is very much appreciated. :D Enjoy your Australia Day and please continue your good work! Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Nice work[edit]

Hi Kerry, I saw you've been doing some good work on Queensland politics etc. and wanted to say thanks. I've been adding some former Victorian electoral districts and upper-house provinces e.g. Central Province (Victoria). Great work on expanding Archibald Archer too, I used the (public domain) The_Dictionary_of_Australasian_Biography at Wikisource as a basis for him and other politicians etc. I spent some time proof-reading the DAB at Wikisource. I found it's a good way to start a biography without running foul of copyright. I also read you "My thoughts about quality in Wikipedia" on your User page and tend to agree. Keep up the good work! Diverman (talk) 03:18, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Elizabeth Street, Brisbane[edit]

That article could be improved by the addition of references but so would 95% of other articles. Since it is just an inner city Brisbane street its not too controversial and there is already one citation needed template. If you feel uncomfortable without it then just undo my edit and I will not revert it. I am going through the 200 or so articles I have created over the years and dealing with their template requests. I have some interest in Queensland Heritage Register articles. Your license idea sounds worthy, good luck. - Shiftchange (talk) 06:27, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Category notes[edit]

No offense intended - just changed your national register entry from 'defunct' to former with some links - you never know who might (or not) read category notes... sats 08:14, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

No worries. What you wrote is a definite improvement on what I wrote. Kerry (talk) 00:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Just want to mention something about Subcategorization. "A page or category should rarely be placed in both a category and a subcategory or parent category (supercategory) of that category (unless the child category is non-diffusing." and "Not all subcategories serve the "diffusion" function described above; some are simply subsets which have some special characteristic of interest". So in the case of your recent contribution where you added the Category:Maranoa Region local government area it should of replaced the Category:South West Queensland region because it was a diffusing category. We don't need the parent category as well. Categories can be a little tricky so if you are going to do more category work it is work reading the page I have linked. I also look forward to you creating the hundreds of heritage site red links you have been adding.Sarcasm mark.svg - Shiftchange (talk) 06:38, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Some comments on QHR work[edit]

Hi Kerry. Great work on the QHR lists. I have taken the liberty of moving the long list at Warwick, Queensland to its own sub-article at List of sites on the Queensland Heritage Register in Warwick.

Also, you will need to revise the list added to Mareeba. It appears to me that you added the Malanda items to the wrong article. See this edit for details. Cheers, Mattinbgn (talk) 07:23, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for doing these. The Warwick list was impressively long -- who knew they had that much heritage?! I've added Mareeba's heritage listings (copy and paste error on my part, I prepare the text for the whole LGA in a file, sort them, and then copy-and-paste the entries into each town's page). And, having finished the Tablelands Region, I have decided to declare victory for tonight -- Toowoomba Region tomorrow (all 92 entries). But as I am proceeding alphabetically though the LGAs, the end (of this phase) is in sight. Then I wait to see if the Qld Govt will make the QHR CC-licensed instead of copyright (I've asked them and they are "thinking about it"). If they say No, I'll just create stubs for the individual QHR sites. If they say Yes, I'll be able to copy-and-paste a lot more content. While I wait for their answer, I will go back over to Commons where I am slowly working my way through categorising [1] - only another 3600 to go ... 08:58, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

James Quinn[edit]

Hi Kerry and thanks for your kind words regarding the James Quinn (Australian bishop) article. I hope that kitten is toilet-trained! :)

Also, I'm not sure if Quinn was Bishop of Brisbane, or Bishop of Queensland. There appears to be resources supporting both. Diverman (talk) 07:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Baddow House[edit]

Wasn't it fun to write teh Baddow house page today? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murga Troyd (talkcontribs) 02:58, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Logan Village, Queensland[edit]

Cheers Kerry, Queenslander! Regards, --Brass razoo (talk) 23:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

At the Australian noticeboard[edit]

Your new stubs are showing up well - one small issue as a long time tagger - the lack of a project tag on the talk pages is very noticeable.... we used to have many years ago it feels, a very generous editor who spent his life following around users who seemed to have no interest in project tags (they are very important for project assessment) - however he has long gone (like most...) and as a consequence, see all those little red talk pages at ? sats 10:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

have tinkered with some, when creating stubs please consider the possibility of adding project tags, as user:longhair has truly long left the heavy editing stage involvement in the project... sats 01:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

see alsos[edit]

Hi, have added these links to the {{Queensland former LGAs}} box that appears (or at least should appear) at the bottom of every article in the series. Orderinchaos 06:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Brisbane Heritage Listings[edit]

Hi, I note on the cfd for Taringa that you mention that you are negotiating for the Heritage Listings to be CC-licensed. See if you can get a enWikisource compatible license, then we can host the Listings over there. There's a current project with the QLD library to scan, host and proofread various of their holdings, so you might be able to hook in with that. Have a chat to User:Lankiveil and/or User:John Vandenberg if that's an approach you'd be interested in. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't been thinking in terms of Wiki Source for the heritage register because it's not a scan-and-transcribe situation. Although the subject matter is historic, the register itself was commenced in 1992 and is "born digital"; I understand it is an Oracle database. I've requested access via the Queensland Government's Open Data initiative which will mean the data (if released) would most likely be available as a spreadsheet under a CC-BY license. But you are right that there may be other uses of the data on the other projects. Lankiveil and John Vandenberg are aware of my negotiations. Kerry (talk) 21:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Wikisource does accept born digital sources. e.g. CIA World Fact Book, 2004 John Vandenberg (chat) 00:53, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Local Government Areas[edit]

Bloody fantastic job you're doing with these. I wish we could get better information about where exactly they were located but I see the source material isn't that detailed. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:08, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, these articles would be a lot better with some maps, especially to explain all the splits and merges that go on. The word descriptions in the Qld Govt Gazette are probably detailed enough if you already have maps of that era because they refer to things like the names of pastoral runs and former placenames which don't appear on current maps. But getting hold of historical maps is my problem. Some do exist for the LGAs of different eras at the State Archives, but I haven't yet been able to sort out their copyright status or how I'd get them digitised (some are huge - A0 or larger); I'd need the active cooperation of the archives. The sort of thing I dream of having for the former LGAs would be something along the lines of this animated gif showing the evolution of the states of Australia. If I can find a way to do the maps, I will, but at the moment, I'm still struggling to get a minimal history written for all the LGAs. I am not even sure I have the complete list of LGAs yet; every time I think I do, another one pops up its head. Kerry (talk) 20:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
It might be worth emailing the archives and having a chat to them about it - it's not like there isn't tons of effort and funding going into digitisation with the advent of Trove and such, and it's not like it's a hugely esoteric topic. In the meantime, where are you getting your hands on the Queensland Government Gazette? If that's digitised I'd like to have a crack at extracting information from them myself but if it isn't there ain't much I can do from WA. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:31, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I have some contacts at the archives, so I'll probably talk face-to-face, but the problem with the archives is they don't "own" the items they hold; they merely care for them on behalf of other government departments, so issues like closure and licensing aren't decided by the archives but by the originating govt department (which often no longer exists and its notional successor department is not interested in investing time making deliberations on archival material -- easier just to say NO quickly). If the material is legally out of copyright, I have a chance of getting it. If it's not, then I suspect it will just be a time-consuming but ultimately unsuccessful run-around to try to get it CC-licensed (I've yet to have any success at that sort of thing despite an official govt policy on open data!). However, for the Qld Govt Gazette, I do have some good news. It is available online from 1859 to 1900 but it is a bit difficult to use (slow and searching doesn't seem to work very well). I find it easier (but bad for my download quotas) to download individual PDFs (which are huge -- not the 20M or so they say but more like 200M) and work with them locally. The OCR-ing is sort-of OK but some searches will fail to find things that you expect to be there and so you have to find things by reading it. So, better than looking at microfilm at the archives, but still quite frustrating at times. Kerry (talk) 06:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, I suggest if you are downloading the QGG PDF files, user a PDF tool that will search across multiple PDF files. I downloaded this free tool based on this advice and find it quite useful. Kerry (talk) 06:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Ta. I'll have a play around with the files tomorrow, when I get back to an actual proper internet connection. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd be willing to help, ( I also have the download limit issue) I understand the archive system a little, anything under 30 yrs that you need help email or hard copy contacting & making info requests for keep me in mind. --Andys'edtits (talk) 17:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I am currently in the process of getting a 1902 division map digitised; it is the only pre-1903 map (when the divisions become shires) that I have found for the whole of Queensland. It is out of copyright. Watch this space .... Kerry (talk) 20:31, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
How exciting! Thanks for digging that up! The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Local government areas (municipalities, shires and divisions) in Queensland, March 1902
Just arrived today! Now to work out what to do with it! Kerry (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
It's not perfect. It was stored folded so it has split along some of the fold lines as is evident when you view it 1-to-1, but still ... 06:57, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


I understand you have various ideas about what works and what doesnt and how it all does here and what the matter is and so on, so I thought i'd just drop a note, to say that redirects do not carry categories. Doing great work! well done! cheers satusuro 02:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree in general one wouldn't add a category to a redirect and I don't usually do so. But redirects can have categories and I added them quite deliberately for these former local government area redirects as I felt it fitted the situation of Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects#Alternative names for articles. The history of these local government authorities is tortuous, they split, they merge, they change their names, they change status from division/shire/borough/town/city (and most of these changes actually create new and distinct legal entities). This means that one has situations where the story of Kianawah Division and its various successors is more-or-less similar in their history to the Town of Wynnum, so it make sense with the level of information currently available to just have a single article covering the 4 or so LGAs that share a more-or-less common territory and redirect the others, but this might not be always the case in the future when they grow and possibly develop into separate articles. There are also weird situations where the Shire of XYZ co-exists with the Town of XYZ as separate entities (which I don't think most people would expect). So unless all of the former LGAs appear in the Category:Former Local Government Areas of Queensland, readers are likely to think there isn't an article on a particular LGA or not realise they are looking at the wrong LGA article. So I think what I am doing is what I am supposed to be doing in such circumstances. Kerry (talk) 04:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough - thanks for taking the time to explain so well..former lgas in most parts of the world can be damned headaches to sort through - so you are doing an important job there.. satusuro 07:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Advice request[edit]

Hi, I know that you're focused on QLD, but wonder if you can advise or direct me to someone else who can on the Tweed Heads area. An IP has been adding the towns and villages of the Tweed Valley to Category:Suburbs of Tweed Heads, New South Wales. I've taken Uki out, but I don't know the area at all, so am not sure about the others. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm prepared to look south of the Queensland border occasionally :-) I guess the issue here is whether the intention of the category is to list suburbs of the Tweed Heads as a town or places in Tweed Shire (Uki is in Tweed Shire but not in Tweed Heads). I guess asking the editor in question is a good start. Let's see. Kerry (talk) 06:41, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I just realised you said it was an IP. When in doubt with these kind of things, I find it useful to defer to an impartial authority. In the case of NSW, it would be The Geographical Names Board of NSW. According to their handy online tool, Tweed Shire has two towns (Tweed Heads and Murwillumbah), NO suburbs at all, and everything else appears to be classified as a "locality" within the shire. So, if you take them as the authority, there are no suburbs of Tweed Heads at all so it's a completely empty and therefore unnecessary category. I might wander over and leave a note on Tweed Shire and see if anyone is interested in ditching Category:Suburbs of Tweed Heads, New South Wales in favour of a category for towns and localities in the Tweed Shire. Kerry (talk) 07:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

request for help[edit]

HI. Andys'edtits here. working on extending local stub, Labrador Qld,,_Queensland It really needs a 'review & page structure layout and prose tidy/edit' please. I can't write prose well. Left minor Q on it's talk page. Thanks in advance.--Andys'edtits 05:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas![edit]

Pratyya (Hello!) 04:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


Hi Kerry, thanks for the Christmas greeting. Merry Christmas to you too! Graham87 09:42, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and best wishes[edit]

Hi Kerry, thanks for your Xmas wishes, I hope you had a good one. Thanks to you also for your contributions during 2013. Have a great New Year. Diverman (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Toowong Cemetery[edit]

Hi Kerry, I was going to go into the Notable people interred section on the Toowong Cemetery article and do some culling of that list but noticed you have added a couple of more names to it so have not touched it.

The reason I was going to trim it back is because there is a category for the burials at that cemetery and the current list was starting to look cumbersome. Seeing as you and I seem to have by far the most edits for Toowong Cemetery I was just wondering what your thought are......

Hope you had a great Christmas and wishing you an even better new year.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 05:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Rocketrod1960! Good question and one that has troubled me too. According to WP:NOTDUP it's quite acceptable to have a list and a category because they serve different purposes and that's not a reason to delete one or other. There are 97 members of the Category and about 28 (by quick count) in the list. One of the list members doesn't have an article (and therefore can't be in the category), but all the other people in the list do have an article and I assume (haven't checked) that those articles are all in the category (or could be put into the category if not already there). So, what to do? Options I can think of:
  1. Put all the articles in the category into the list to make them more consistent. If so, the list really becomes too long for the article so we'd probably need to put the list into a separate article "List of notable people buried in Toowong Cemetery" and link to that from the "Toowong Cemetery" article.
  2. Perhaps the people listed in the article should just be the "most notable" ones, but then how does one decide which are most notable?
  3. Just put the people who don't yet have an article in the list in the Toowong Cemetery article and link to the Category for the rest. Currently the Toowong Cemetery article has a link to the Category but without any explanation. It might be better to be explicit and say "A list of people buried in Toowong Cemetery can be found in the Category:Burials at Toowong Cemetery and in the list below". Of course, to put people in the list we'd have to think they were notable enough that one day someone might write an article. There's about 40,000+ people buried in Toowong so we don't want them all appearing in the list!
  4. Do nothing and don't worry about it (which is more or less what I've been doing so far)

I think option 3 might be the best option. Your thoughts? Kerry (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Another thought is that we dump the category on the grounds of WP:DEFINING as it's hard to argue that someone is "defined" by being buried in a particular place or that this is part of their notability, and replace it with a "List of" article. But if we want to go down that path, then it begs the question about all the other Burial categories, in which case maybe we need to raise the question at some higher level in the category tree. Then I looked at the category tree. What a mess! Burials in Toowong Cemetery is a sub-cat of Cemeteries in Queensland (that is, people are in a place category!). Cemeteries in Queensland is a sub-cat of amongst other things Visitor attractions in Queensland. So we have dead people who are visitor attractions?! Kerry (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again Kerry, I now have a headache thanks to you and all those options!! But what I did was have a look at Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney. There are about one million burials there but list just 18 notable "inhabitants". I know most of the names listed there whereas a lot of the "notable" people interred at Toowong would be of little consequence to most people. By the way, Toowong has around 120,000 burials.

May I suggest cutting it back to the following people? Anderson Dawson, politician and Premier of Queensland and also leader of the first labour government anywhere in the world. Frank Forde, politician and Prime Minister of Australia Samuel Griffith, politician, Premier of Queensland, Chief Justice, and a principal author of the Constitution of Australia Charles Heaphy, explorer and recipient of the Victoria Cross Peter Jackson, boxer Percy McDonnell, Australian Cricket Captain Steele Rudd, Australian Author

Maybe we could then say there are also X number of Brisbane Mayors, X number of Qld Premiers, and X number of Qld Governers.

Now here is my dilemma. I also the attitude that Australians know far too little of our history (And that does not mean just from 1770!) and so therefore we should include even more people so readers may click on the person to learn about his/her accomplishments.

Maybe the option of doing nothing for now sounds good. I do agree though that we should immediately change to "A list of people buried in Toowong Cemetery can be found in the Category:Burials at Toowong Cemetery and in the list below". If Thomas Mathewson is to remain in the list we need to find a couple of good references for him. I also think we should delete the "famous Queensland Photographer. (not even a grave marker though)" to simply "Photographer" or something close to that.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 14:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Toowong Cemetery oozes history

Well, since we agree on some better wording about the category and the list, I've implemented that (I can't see why that should upset anyone). But when it comes to pruning the list, I already see the problem. The set of names you suggest include a boxer and a cricketer I've never heard of and left out Forgan Smith and T.J. Ryan who I would have said are both very important. Now while I am not one to get too upset about such things, I am guessing that if we start eliminating people from the list, we'll upset someone. Rookwood Cemetery is interesting in that they don't have a category for burials, so there is no easy way of knowing what other inhabitants (interesting word choice!) might be notable. That's why I am tempted to push the list of notables in Toowong out into a separate article. Once it's in a separate list article, the list can be as long as anyone wants it to be and include people with and without articles (although I'd be tempted to prune out any additions without obvious notability). It's really only a problem when you get long lists inside non-list articles. So just have the heading "Notable people interred" and then a "Main article: List of notable people interred in Toowong Cemetery" and leave it at that. What do you think?

Re: Thomas Mathewson. A quick Google search for "thomas mathewson queensland photographer" shows he is notable. He was indeed buried in Toowong and there was no headstone still evident by the 1980s.

BTW You are right about the number of burials (there are 43000 people memorialised on about 25000 headstones, which are the figures which always sticks in my mind as people often ask us when we are going to photograph the headstones, as we have done in other cemeteries and that number is the reason I explain why we haven't done so!). Kerry (talk) 23:16, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should be raising this issue on Talk:Toowong Cemetery? We might get more opinions. Kerry (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, leaving out TJ Ryan and Forgan Smith would have been a disaster I guess! Ryan's grave is just across the path from my grandparents (Douglas and Maud Easton) and since I was a toddler I marveled at his huge headstone and it's inscription. I have already added the references for Thomas Mathewson but deleted "famous" and the part about not having a headstone. I have taken hundreds of photos of graves and scenery at Toowong but I am now living in Geelong and that has ended my quest to also photograph every grave there.

And as for Peter Jackson, he was possibly the greatest boxer of the 19th century. Percy McDonnell is the only Australian Cricket Captain buried in Toowong. They were the main reasons I suggested keeping them.

Anyway as you have suggested, I am going to put up my original comments on the Talk page and let's see what suggestions are put forward.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 01:18, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Kerry Raymond[edit]

--Pratyya (Hello!) 13:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

New category[edit]

Well that was the largest category I have ever populated. I didn't check its non-river boundary to make sure buildings and things from that area were included. I am sure there are more transport-related articles that should be in there too. Just thought I would mention this so if your up to it you can check it has been comprehensively added to articles it should. - Shiftchange (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

You have been busy! Thanks! :-) One thing that I must admit is not enormously clear to me is whether Brisbane CBD is intended to be just the central suburb called Brisbane (which was mentally how I was treating it when I put it in the Suburbs of Brisbane category) or whether people perceive it as where the business premises area, in which case they are spreading out into Spring Hill, Fortitude Valley, etc. But I figured it was pretty odd that we have categories for many suburbs (OK, I put a lot of them there) but not for the central suburb. Once I get the Heritage Register stuff happening, there will be many more entries for the CBD category, but I am awaiting the return of public servants from summer holidays to hear about the progress on the CC-licensing (they've said they will do it, but still waiting on it to actually happen). Kerry (talk) 13:05, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
As a general guideline I think it has been established that we should follow the Australian Bureau of Statistics for boundaries. As I understand it Google Maps aligns with the ABS so it can trusted for suburb and other boundaries. I am confident that using suburbs as a category would be standard practice where as a vague business area would be problematic. I have thought we needed a category for the CBD for a while now. I did notice no other major Australian city has an equivalent category. We may need to create a sub-category Heritage buildings in the Brisbane central business district. Great news on the licensing front. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:19, 20 January 2014 (UTC)


I agree that workshop trainees are best not to use AfC. It has a number of issues working against making contributions. Perhaps the worst problem is seeing perfectly adequate articles rejected, usually by one person, without sufficient consideration in order to reduce the long queues. Maybe new article creation should not be a workshop priority or at least be one of a number of optional goals. One alternative could be to improve a stub article to start class. - Shiftchange (talk) 02:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Indeed! They reject perfectly adequate stub/start articles; do they think they are assessing for GA or FA? The reason for rejection is very general; feedback needs to be more specific, so people know precisely what they need to fix to get the article accepted. Also, a series of different reviewers reject the article for different reasons, one says not enough citations, then the next ones says not notable enough. Of course, it doesn't help when we ask people to pick their own topics, some of which do turn out to be pretty marginal when it comes to notability. And trying to explain to a trainee about the sandbox is impossible; I suspect most of them can't find their draft article when they get home. What I was thinking of doing for the next lot of edit training (if and when?!) was to set up a bunch of stubs which I know are notable enough and for which there is good online material (e.g. Queensland Heritage Register entries, ADB entries, etc), and then do as you say, assign each one to a different stub and get them to take the article a little bit further. The only risk to this plan is that some other editor will come along and demand to speedy delete the stubs or dramatically expand them before the class! I have been told there is some template you can use to flag that an article is being developed in an educational context; that might mitigate the risk (assuming I can find out what the template is). I think the trainees will get a much greater sense of achievement if they can go home and point to a live WP article and say "look what I did". Of course it's more work to prepare for such a course. Kerry (talk) 02:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Having a set of possible stub articles for working on is a great idea. We can start creating that list immediately, at say User:Kerry Raymond/Workshop stub articles. Criteria might be notability established, online references available and within the scope of WikiProject Queensland. Ideally there would be a several suggestions across the range of Category:Main topic classifications. Another possibility is for participants to address a specific cleanup task from this list. Some of these are much easier than others. Nearly all of them would require some guidance and tips on how to complete them efficiently. With this approach you have article creation for more confident/moderately experienced participants, article development for mid-level participants and minor maintenance tasks for the totally inexperienced. Maybe Template:Educational assignment is the template you were told about? - Shiftchange (talk) 04:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Another criteria: a photo (suitably-licensed) for uploading to Commons. I would prefer to limit the stubs to the categories in the quieter backwaters of Wikipedia (avoid the shark-infested waters of ferocious editors), preferably categories that are low-risk in terms of creating controversy. Off the top of my head, I'd avoid anything to do with religion and politics (too much risk of POV), business (risk of conflict-of-interest), law & health (risk of mis-information), bios of living people (risk of litigation). History and geography are probably safe enough. Actually geography is pretty good, because we have:
  • Queensland Place Names (where is it, how did it gets its name)
  • Queensland Places (for some history)
  • census data
  • there's usually some kind of out-of-copyright photo on the State Library of Queensland site
  • and a bit of googling usually produces some kind of tourist information (there's a BBQ and a boat launching ramp)

and Queensland geography is not usually controversial and all trainees understand it before they walk in the door. And there are usually loads of redlinks hanging off all the local government articles for towns/suburbs/localities. And it is your special topic should any particularly hairy geography questions arise. Yes, I think you have found the template (good, because I didn't manage to find it). Kerry (talk) 05:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

So if we have a list of suggested articles provided at the workshop how will people be able to bring a relevant photo? Are you planning on distributing it to participants beforehand or are you saying we should only make suggestions which have a photo on WikiCommons? Many places which don't now have articles are remote and its unlikely people will have a photo of those places. Also in your last comment are you referring to articles to be created, existing stubs or both? Thinking about it, I think your preference to limit the range of articles to geography (and history) is a good compromise. By compromise I mean while possibly not suiting all workshop participants and not ideal for Wikipedia's best interests, it is best for training purposes. On the other hand if someone really wants to write an article about their favourite 19th century shearer or obscure law we should allow it. The reason being that any issues which arise can be instructive for everyone. Participants needs to understand collaboration includes conflict resolution and consensus making.
The Template:Under construction template may be useful as well. We have Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Localities and Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland/Requested articles#Geography. For the moment I will not create a specific list because I noticed you used the word 'if' there are any more workshops. - Shiftchange (talk) 12:16, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Cyril Tenison White[edit]

Cheers Kerry, and for your improvements to the article, Regards, Brass razoo (talk) 02:38, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 13:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 13:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Hi Kerry,

I'm currently going through family research for well connected ladies of country Australia - verifying and nullifying for their own benefit. I have no Wiki experience, however your VERY quick edit of Herbert Hyland is greatly impressive - keep up the good work! Canola88 (talk) 07:55, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you![edit]

Erdbeerteller01.jpg Thanks for the Barnstar you awarded me, I appreciate your support. Diverman (talk) 12:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Couple of things[edit]

Would you mind having a look at the recently created Feminism in Australia? I've given it a few hours and would value your input. Also would you mind if I archive this page and move your barnstars and awards to your user page? - Shiftchange (talk) 06:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Re: feminism. Firstly, you are very brave to tackle the topic! But it's certainly better than it was for your efforts. I think the Feminism in Australia article might be better if it stuck more to the issues, the legislative changes, etc rather than too much emphasis on the individuals and the organisations (I realise that is how you found it). Generally, it isn't possible to attribute any particular change to a specific individuals/groups -- many individuals/groups were probably pushing for similar things (albeit with different flavours). It's maybe OK to the mention the "first"s, e.g. first women in parliament, first .., as they are significant marks in the timeline that are often used in comparisons with other countries, and also those claims are usually more clear-cut (you were either the first female prime minister or you weren't). And, of course, there is the very unclear distinction between "feminists" and "high achieving women"? Are feminists those who were active in seeking political change on feminist issues, or do all high-achieving women who hold feminist views count? Can men who hold feminist views or supported feminist initiatives be included? And since when has the Women's Weekly had anything much to do with feminism?! These are the reasons I say you are very brave to tackle this topic! From a structural standpoint there are a cluster of articles and categories that are all somewhat overlapping, e.g. Category:Feminism in Australia is independent of Category:Women's rights in Australia, and similarly Category:Feminist organisations in Australia is unrelated to Category:Women's organisations in Australia. The article Feminism in Australia has a section on notable feminists (and mentions many more in the chronological sections), yet there is also Category:Australian women's rights activists and I think I saw a list article of some sort too. In that regard, it might be better to shift the lists of notable feminists and organisations off into list articles, but I think this article and related ones are places where it may be easy to be "too bold". I would suggest going slowly and seeking opinion on the Talk page. Kerry (talk) 07:55, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For tireless quality work on Qld articles LibStar (talk) 07:21, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

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Any chance you could help me?[edit]

I've been following the incredible work you've been doing on Queensland localities for a while now, and I've suddenly got a lot more time on my hands with a decent internet connection and noticed how bad Wikipedia's coverage of places around where I grew up is. I can pretty easily see where to get most of the information I'd need from your references, but I can't for the life of me work out how you find the coordinates, generate the maps, and work out the "distance from X" section. I was wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction? The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I can probably help more if you are from Queensland than if you are from another state as I am using a lot of Queensland-specific resources. A lot of the sites I use can be found at User:Kerry Raymond#Places where I have keep my copy-and-paste citations for them to speed up the task (I just do a null edit at the start of each day of that page to force the accessdate fields to update to "today"'s date -- today may be yesterday because it's server time). To answer your specific questions:
  • for coordinates (also suburb/locality/town, LGA, and possible origin of name) [Queensland Place Names] -- if you grew up in another state, their Place Names board will have a similar thing or just use the overall Australian place names site but the state ones usually contain a bit more info
  • generating the maps - you don't have to generate the map - it generates itself - it is just a matter of supplying the coordinates in DMS into the [Template:Infobox_Australian_place/Blank#Pushpin_map_fields]] and making sure you put the correct abbreviation in the state field of the Australian place infobox -- "qld" in my case -- and the map with a pushpin in the right part of the state magically appears.
  • for the "distance from X" I use a feature in Google Maps - details here to turn it on - note that it only works with "old Google Maps" - it's then a question of sticking a pin into the two locations and the distance between them is displayed. I find it's a bit unreliable -- if it seems to stop working for you, close the browser window and restart it and that usually fixes it. You can also do it in Google Earth with its measure tool. I also use Google Maps by eye for writing geography about whatever rivers, mountains, highways, national park etc are in the area. Using both map and satellite mode, I find it useful to get some clues about what might be in the district that might be worth writing about in the articles, as often I write about places I have never visited and know nothing about.
  • I use the Queensland Globe] which is a set of layers over Google Earth which provides me with lots of things like boundaries of suburbs/localities for the adjacent suburb/locality info, also state/federal electorates.

I hope that helps. If you are looking at not-Qld, then I know some of the other states have similar tools, but I have no real exoerience with them. Happy to answer more questions if you have them. Kerry (talk) 22:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much - this is phenomenally helpful. I'm planning on working on Victorian localities so it's not the same, but what doesn't directly apply I've now been able to find alternatives for. I'll be able to do a lot with this. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:34, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Good job![edit]

Hi Kerry, and good job on getting the Pinnaroo Cemetery and Crematorium, Brisbane page up and running. I have added a few famous people to it so far....

Unfortunately though I now live in Geelong and it is a bit far to travel to now to take a heap of photos to add. :(

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 08:51, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I had noticed you adding the links (I recently turned on some notification preferences that enables me to see what's being linked to pages on my watchlist). Re a photo. I am probably better place to get a photo; if only I could remember to take my camera with me when I am driving about for other purposes ... Kerry (talk) 21:50, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Thoughts on using electors instead of census data in some cases?[edit]

Hi Kerry, I had an idea about our problem with the ABS census districts and I'd like your opinion. I've noticed that the Victorian Electoral Commission releases data about the number of electors in every single locality, and have been thinking about whether this might be an alternative where the census districts are so whacked as to be unusable. I can see this as providing more helpful data in for a lot of small towns: for instance, on the article I just wrote, Bellarine, Victoria, saying there's 81 properties and 134 electors in those boundaries might be more useful than saying that the ABS throws it in with Portarlington, Victoria and another area and comes up with 3,580 people. What do you think? The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Short answer: yes. Longer answer. Currently Australia has a population of 23.5M of which 16M are eligible to vote which is a ratio of 68%. However, small country localities are disproportionately likely to be Australian citizens (compared with cities where recent immigrants go) and they tend to be older (fewer children), so I'd guess that the ratio of electors to population is probably more like 75-80% in a small country locality. If we go with the 68% ratio, that would estimate the population of Bellarine as 197 people. If we went with 80%, it would estimate the population as 167, with 75% it would be 179. Since we know the ABS is using 180 as their cut-off, it would suggest that 80% is probably a good ballpark. So as a proxy for actual numbers, it looks like an under-estimate of around 20-25% (mostly children). But, I am not convinced that readers of Wikipedia have any need for the exact numbers on census night in Bellarine (or anywhere else). Anyone with a genuine need for that level of detail would talking to the ABS directly. I imagine that most readers of Wikipedia use the population simply as a indication of "how big a place is it?" in which case #properties and #electors serves the purpose just as well as population data. And, as an aside, number of properties is an interesting data point as well for the reader. Out of intellectual curiosity only, do you know if it is a count of number of dwellings or simply the number of distinct addresses among the electors, that is, does it include empty dwellings and dwellings with folk who are ineligible for the electoral roll, e.g. non-citizens). I need to go and see if the Qld Electoral Commission report similar data as I am increasingly writing about these "too small" localities and sharing your frustration with the lack of census data. Kerry (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Can you point me at Victorian electoral data that you are talking about? I didn't manage to find it with a quick Google search. Thanks Kerry (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
This was basically my thinking. I'm not sure how they arrive at the properties figure (and would be happy to leave that out). The VEC's website is amazingly useless for a lot of things but I found the numbers in a really useful PDF at The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
I reckon you could leave in the property figures, even if we aren't 100% sure what they represent. They will be "near enough" and I think helps to give a flavour of the kind of place being described. I just looked at the PDF. I don't know if you noticed some localities are listed twice; I think because they are split between two electorates, in which case you would need to add them together. Kerry (talk) 02:17, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
That's because the VEC is much more precise than the ABS: where a locality contains more than one state electorate, local government area, or local government ward, they break down their figures into the amount of electors in the locality that fall into each. Thanks for your feedback, anyway - I'll start adding this information in. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

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Bertram Steele.[edit]

Hi Kerry, I was the person who originally added Bertram Steele as a notable burial but on the weekend I had a think about it and deleted him. I am guessing that because the first crematorium in Brisbane did not open till a few months after he died there was no choice but to bury him.

It is unusual though that they didn't just bury his wife in the same plot.

As it happens, I was going to State Library today so I had a look in the crematorium index. Unfortunately they index the date of death not the date of cremation, which wasn't helpful with trying to figure out when BS was cremated. Fortunately they retain the register numbers which appear to be chronological. So based on the dates of death of other folk with nearby register numbers (who I presume would have been cremated within a day or two of death), it appears BS was cremated around the 2nd week of February 1937, which doesn't yield any insights into why it happened. There is no mention of the Steele family in the newspapers of that time, but I guess exhuming and cremating deceased people isn't exactly something you'd announce in the newspaper. Maybe we will never know ... Kerry (talk) 05:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Now it's annoying me that we don't know why they dug him up!! I looked and looked through the old Courier Mails but no luck. I will have one more try tonight and if still cannot find anything i will move on. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 06:54, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Since the info was in the ADB entry, I wonder where they got it from so I was looking at their Select Bibliography for any clues. Knowing he was cremated in 1937 means we can rule out anything published before this. And I am not sure it is the sort of information that would be in the RACI proceedings, so I think the info probably came from one of the first two books. As it happens, the first is available online and doesn't mention anything about burial and cremation and the second one is an unpublished manuscript (sigh -- that may be a bit harder to obtain!). Kerry (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Political parties template[edit]

There's a discussion about this very topic happening at Template talk:Australian political parties. :) The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:42, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

RFC at Wikipedia for page protection[edit]

Last call for opinions on RFC at Wikipedia page for page protection extension. User:Pundit is in support of increasing gender equality at Wikipedia and another user is opposed to User:Pundit's efforts. Cheers. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 17:28, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

survey markers of australia[edit]

Surveying and Geography of Q feel too far broad and generic to be correct, but typical of wp - there is nothing in the short term to help that. satusuro 04:05, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

indeed, I was surprised to find nothing more refined for parent category but that may organically resolve itself in time. My need (the automation of the Qld heritage register) has a number of survey marks so I needed a category and that was the best I can do. Kerry (talk) 05:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
think the 'earlier fit' - because they were border pegs lets them get away with specificity of border markers - if you indeed have non state border pegs of notability/significance in the good old qld register - then I think there is a need for narrower cat - when I am on the ground in oz will investigate further (unless s-one else gets there before me....) best wishes from os satusuro 06:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Jocelyn Dela-Cruz[edit]

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The article Jocelyn Dela-Cruz has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Kate Wilson (scientist)[edit]

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The article Kate Wilson (scientist) has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:13, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Emma Johnston (scientist)[edit]

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The article Emma Johnston (scientist) has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:14, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


I guess you will be rather busy for a while, so in case you miss it, some good advice has been added at WT:Meetup/Canberra/2014-08-14-Wikibomb. The big problem will be adding sources demonstrating that WP:PROF is satisfied. Good luck! Johnuniq (talk) 09:41, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Kate Wilson (scientist)[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

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A tag has been placed on Kate Wilson (scientist) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Reventtalk 11:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
I might quibble about details of the wikibomb, but there's doubt you're doing a lots of editing and got some lots of positive press coverage. BTW, I've created and started to populate Category:Indigenous_Australian_women_academics. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:17, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Victoria Tunnel[edit]

Hello Kerry,

sorry for the delay in replying, just saw your message.

The QHR listing data for the Victoria Tunnel came from (if memory serves) a QR tender document I happened to see at work, so I'll check the file on Monday and get back to you after then.




there was finally a break in the traffic work-wise, and I've checked the QR tender which mentions the heritage listing of Victoria Tunnel, but it doesn't give any detail as to the name of the listing. Good luck with your articles.



Thanks for trying. Maybe I'll ask the Qld Heritage Register folks and see if they can figure it out. Kerry (talk) 23:55, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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A kitten just for you![edit]

Kitten in a helmet.jpg

Why? Because I saw a kitten you gave somebody else and I liked it so much I think you deserve one! (And cause it's fun to give out kittens!)

DangerousJXD (talk) 02:38, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Vulture Street[edit]

Hi Kerry; if you're going to move the album article from the ambiguous title, perhaps you could create the disambiguation page? At the moment, the ambiguous title just redirects straight to the disambiguated title, which seems to defeat the point. J Milburn (talk) 17:22, 8 September 2014 (UTC)