User talk:Kestenbaum

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Welcome, from Journalist[edit]


Hello, Kestenbaum, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Journalist (talk · contribs)

Amazed that no one has welcomed you yet[edit]

In terms of the goals of Wikipedia and the concepts behind the use of hypertext for sorting political information, I would imagine that you would be sort of a legend around here. I would be curious to hear what you consider the advantages and disadvantages of Wikipedia in terms of organizing political data. The requirement of producing a coherent article often seems to preclude including some of the types of fascinating information you organize on your website. But in the long term, I'm not so sure this is necessarily the case. I would also imagine that I'm not the first to have wished that the Political Graveyard was a Wiki. Best, Tfine80 05:23, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

NonCommercial ShareAlike license[edit]

The logo on the wikipedia page on your site will/may be considered for deletion as mentioned in link in the template.

Older images should go through a process of VfD to eliminate them in an orderly fashion, taking due account of "fair use". [1]

I'm sure fair use could be argued, but I'm no expert, and since it's your logo I figured I'd let you know since you might know more than me. :)

I came to your talk page via Tfine80's, who asked a question on the United States army rations talk page. I haven't visited The Political Graveyard before, but it's a cool, well-designed site on a niche topic.

And I'm finally consistently remembering to sign my name. --TransUtopian 16:23, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

1/1000th Common Ancestry[edit]

I'm glad you got a kick out of the article. You deserve continued kudos for your years of work, which is bound to outlast you (but I hope you last a while), and be a valuable tool to political junkies and genealogists for generations to come.

I've found a few more interesting kinships that I'll get my act together sometime and send your way. General/Ambassador James Longstreet married Ulysses S. Grant's 1st cousin. The Dudley-Winthrop Family has more connections, too. Were adding to this in a couple weeks, but it'll be 20-30 years before she's elected to anything :)

Kind regards, Dr U 05:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


I saw that we have a difference of opinion over at 7 mile. Regardless of how that works out, I just wanted to drop you a note and thank you for all of your hard work on the political graveyard. It's a wonderful resource! TMS63112 16:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Hi polygon ! Soupysales 17:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for chiming in -- always good to get a non-involved point of view.--SarekOfVulcan 18:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Michigan[edit]

Just discovered, joined. -William Allen Simpson 16:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Cabinet counties[edit]

Earlier (on the relevant talk page), I pointed out an error in the map with the article on the Cabinet counties of Michigan. There are ten "cabinet counties", but the map highlights eleven, by incorrectly including St. Joseph County, which is named for the St. Joseph River.

Sad to say, a correct map would show two somewhat separated clusters of counties rather than a single region.

I mention this small error here because you requested such notes, on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. counties. Kestenbaum 07:24, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, actually I wanted to know if there were any errors in my own maps. ;) Anyway, is the new map at Cabinet counties better? dbenbenn | talk 08:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Yup, looks good. Thanks! Kestenbaum 17:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Bath School Disaster[edit]

Thanks for your note. If you have anything that shopuld be included, let me know. I am also in contact with a number of folks from Bath who are helping me with the reseach and providing pictures for the article. If you need any contacts there, let me know. Jtmichcock 17:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Aaron Campbell[edit]

I'm surprised of that. Nobody of that age is involved in politics in Italy, as far as I know. Since you had some experience, can I ask you to take a quick look at William G. Pierce? This appears notable as a candidate for the Senate, but I am surprised he gets so few Google news hits [2]. Could that be normal? - Liberatore(T) 12:29, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd say he's notable as a candidate in the primary. It's early yet. If he stays in the race, there will be an avalanche of news stories about him. I doubt he has much chance of winning the primary, much less the general election, but his candidacy demonstrates and gives voice to discontent with the incumbent within his own party.
Google is a great thing, but it's not everything. If you Google my full name, at first it looks like 1.3 million hits! But more than 99% of those are on Russian spam sites which have apparently copied random text, including my name, from the Political Graveyard page footer; the genuine search results fit on a single page, with the usual note that "we have omitted some entries very similar to those already displayed". Kestenbaum 13:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll keep an eye on the news about this one. - Liberatore(T) 14:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Kestenbaum/List of Republican celebrities of the past[edit]

I've moved the page into your userspace for you to work on. If you want it deleted later just tag it {{db|userfied page no longer required}} and it will be deleted. Please remember that the page is still subject to the GFDL, so that if you want to use text fr it elsewhere you'll need to make that clear in the edit summaries and link back to the page history. If course, if you re-write the info in your own words that will not apply. Let me know if I can help further. --Doc ask? 13:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Ann Arbor External Links[edit]

Thanks for the kind word. Yes, external links are one of my personal little crusades.

Incidentally, and unrelatedly, I just got a letter "from you" (from your office, that is). I was just telling my wife last night how her elected offical also had a longtime online presence, and here you are! It's interesting how interwoven things can be. Cheers. · rodii · 16:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of people in Ann Arbor, but it's still a small town. — My online involvement has had sometimes unexpected impacts on my political life. — Am I calling you for jury duty? Kestenbaum 23:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Nah, I paid off a mortgage. :) · rodii · 01:26, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

> That band listing you reverted was not only misplaced; I'm pretty sure it was a hoax. "Semi > popular"? "Wonk-Rock"? "Tally Hall"? (A failed indoor mall project on Liberty St.) > Kestenbaum 02:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

They are indeed a band: named, I'm guessing, after the mall. (I tried to turn the Tally Hall wikipedia article -- which is on the band -- into a disambiguation page leading both to the band and to the failed mall, but it got reverted.) Whether they're "semi-popular" or not... I'm doubtful. On another topic, I've had trouble writing the section on the Louis D. Belcher page regarding the bizarre contested 1977 mayoral election. I've included all the stuff I could find online (it was before I was born, so I don't remember it), but if you know anything please feel invited to pitch in. Ropcat 05:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Larry, pls see my response on the Ann Arbor Talk Page to your remark on the abortion amendment to the city charter. You're an attorney and might want to add some useful commentary. Ropcat 06:35, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

WW Mayo[edit]

Hi. In this article, it is said that double W Mayo was born in Eccles, Lancashire, England whereas in this one it is stated that he emigrated from Salford, Manchester district, UK. Perhaps you know where double W was actually from ? Archie
Archibald Tuttle 19:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Why can't both of those be true? He was born in place A; later, he emigrated from place B, winding up at place C. Kestenbaum 00:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I was asking you because you mentioned in discussion that you read several bios (or that's one might guess reading your notes). So maybe you're able to fill the gap between A and B. To be more precise : did he start medical practice in Salford and if so what gave him the idea of leaving ? Cheers, Archie
Archibald Tuttle 14:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
...Since the above lines, I've found , I think the explanation of discrepancies : Eccles is a town belonging to the current metropolitan borough of Salford (it is located next but distinct from the municipality of Salford city). The metropolitan borough of Salford belongs to the greater Manchester Metropolitan County. This area was formerly included in the Lancashire county (i.e before the 1974 revision of administrative divisions). British geography is a delectation. Cheers : Archie
Archibald Tuttle 18:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

== Country subdivision ==[edit]

...IMO splitting the cats into a group of "Administatrive divisions of some countries" and "Political divisions of some other countries" is not useful.

could you maybe change your vote on Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_April_4#Category:Subdivisions_by_country_to_Category:Political_divisions_by_country

and let's discuss this on the project page


or Country subdivision page

first? It is really is mass rename, since it not only involves the cats and subcates but also lots of articles. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 01:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Subdivision category debate[edit]

The original debate for renameing the country subdivision categories was closed and a new debate on the subject has now been listed. The results of the old debate are shown, but will not be counted when the current debate is closed. You are being notified because you were involved in the previous debate. If you still have an interest in the outcome, please come and participate in the new debate. - TexasAndroid 20:38, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Notability of Congressional candidates[edit]

What standard do you use for notability? Discussion at Talk:John Kelly.

--William Allen Simpson 12:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

political categories renaming[edit]

There are a lot of political categories renaming, it would help to have your feedback at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion such as:

Just search for polit and congress.

See the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Congress, too.

--William Allen Simpson 05:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Ben Franklin's Son[edit]

William Franklin, Governor of New Jersey. Never heard of him before, but other sources confirm it, he is the bastard son of Benjamin Franklin. Political Graveyard has no mention of him. Dr U 03:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

He's not mentioned in Political Graveyard because I have not included the pre-revolutionary royal governors, with only a few exceptions. Problems: (1) I need to figure out the governmental structures of that era, and (2) I need some way of making sense of the titles of nobility many of those governors have, sometimes to the seeming exclusion of regular names. Kestenbaum 05:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I'd be happy to help do any leg work needed to help you identify the government structures and nobility. As you know, I have a keen interest in how various political families tie together, and often times the links are pre-revolutionary. Dr U 05:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

New Orleans Rhythm Kings[edit]

I'm happy to contribute in any way I can. I'm no jazz historian myself. In fact, I'm not a particularly big fan of really early jazz (with a few exceptions). But the lack of information about early jazz on Wikipedia is disappointing. I've toyed with the idea of starting a jazz Wikiproject, as I can't believe there isn't already one. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 21:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Lists marked for deletion[edit]

Larry - I noticed the new thread for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of celebrities with links to the U.S. Democratic Party (which also covers the similar GOP and Libertarian lists), and thought you might want to offer your opinion (and possibly shift the pages' content to your user space, as was done with User:Kestenbaum/List of Republican celebrities of the past). MisfitToys 23:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


Larry, Do you think that liberal is a fair characterization of Dingell's career/voting record? It seems that for 20 years or so he's been the most conservative Democrat from SE Michigan. I don't know if I'm being too picky about people using the term liberal or if it really is over-used, particularly by those on the right when they don't like someone who may or may not be a liberal. I think of Sen. Levin, Alma Wheeler Smith (whom I wanted for gov), John Conyers and Howard Wolpe as liberals. Gov Granholm, John Dingell and Debbie Stabenow strike me as from the moderate wing of the party, or centrists like the Clintons.mp2dtw 05:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Malcolm X[edit]

I think we ran into some kind of technical glitch; it was not my intent to revert your change. I was merely changing his place of death from Harlem to Washington Heights, Manhattan. Both your edit and mine are time-stamped to the same minute, and mine must have trampled yours inadvertently. I certainly will not stand in the way of your including the other cities in his category list.

Unrelated, my serious beef with the article is that it is basically a summary of the Autobiography, which is, like most autobiographies, a selective and biased summary of the man's life. Changes made by editors in the past to include information from other sources have been swiftly edited out by others who reason, perhaps "this new material is less favorable to Malcolm X than the only source with which I am familiar, therefore this editor is biased and must be reverted." This article will not be good until that is fixed. Uucp 10:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, and I have fixed the categories (including alphabetizing him on category pages under X instead of M). Yes, strongly agreed that other sources should be used and taken seriously. Kestenbaum 16:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Elmwood Cemetery (Detroit, Michigan)[edit]

Well, that is very interesting information. And should be mentioned in the article. It is hardly anything that could be easily inferred from the article at present. olderwiser 19:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Mark Hackel[edit]

Thanks for your support on keeping this article. I don't understand why someone 1,000 miles from a place would care about an article about someone from a place a 1,000 miles from them so much that they would put up such a fight to get the article deleted. I tend to be an include (almost) everything kinda editor. I know that the article is not that good, but it was never intended to be a novel.

By the way, I used your political graveyard website last year to research G. Mennen Williams —great website.

Thanks, —MJCdetroit 18:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Real property & indexes at registers of deeds[edit]

Hello there. Since this is my first attempt to edit an article in Wiki, I'm a bit amazed at the quickness to which my contribution is subjected to revision. Even while I was reading the saved copy, and trying to smooth out links, the edits were redacted and links made unneccessary. (Woah, get those horses under rein!)

I am hardly an authority on all U.S. states' real estate law, far from any legal eagle on exact terminology, and my experience as a genealogically-interested researcher is limited to four states so far. But I wonder greatly about the fine distinctions you imply by changing "real estate" to "estate in land". And I really don't believe you should attempt to make a one-state reference to one of several (? or only two?) typical practices. (Iowa is one of about a dozen states that use the Torrons title system, I think.)

But I hope that the topic will be the better for our joint attention... Best regards, Tom Kohn

p.s. I don't yet know about setting up my user talk page, so do reply on yours.

Oops, sorry about that. I don't remember changing "real estate" to "estate in land", but sometimes weird things happen when two people are trying to edit a page at once. I think I jumped in there to fix a typo or something, and ended making a lot more changes than I planned. While I was at it, it occurred to me that "recorder of deeds" ought to link to Torrens.
Absolutely, two heads on this are better than one.
My understanding (which is Michigan-centric and could be out of date) is that Iowa has the Torrens system for every parcel in every county, and it makes unnecessary a lot of the work that realtors and title companies do in all the other states. Some specific places (like Wayne County, next door to me) have a tract index, but that's not the same thing as Torrens. Some states, like New York, have enacted legislation to make it possible to put a property on the Torrens system, but the cost of doing so is very daunting and few owners have taken advantage of this. So I changed both articles to stress Iowa's pre-eminence.
Go ahead and make what edits you think are necessary, and I'll check back tomorrow or so. Kestenbaum 18:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

NY Times[edit]

Congratulations on the NY Times quote. You've earned the recognition. -Will Beback 07:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

LaRouche Cult Mediation[edit]

Dear Kestenbaum, I have started to discuss the above topic under the discussion entry. I'm not sure this was the purpose, could you please correct me if I am wrong? Best wishes, Astor Piazzolla 09:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as I understand the process, your comment is entirely appropriate. No problem as far as I am concerned. Kestenbaum 11:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places[edit]

I just wanted to say welcome to the WikiProject and let you know I've run across your Political Graveyard website many a time when googling for obscure stuff about Oregon. I'm looking forward to your contributions to the project. Keep up the good work and happy editing! Katr67 03:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Vote request[edit]

Please Vote, as per wiktionary the correct spelling is Wiktionary:anti-Semitic NOT Antisemitic. 12:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


Haha, thanks for the note about Bill Sali - and more thanks for noting my dealings with the other guy than for my actual work on the article. :-) BTW, I've cited the Political Graveyard in at least one other Wiki article, and have learned quite a few things from it. Thanks! --texasmusician 22:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Citing the Political Graveyard[edit]

Hi, do you have any preferences for how citations for The Political Graveyard should appear? For example this version of an article uses Template:cite web:

Most of the time, where I cite it, I use something like this:

I'm almost inclined to create a template specifically for the site, somewhat similar to CongBio. I just wondered if you had any preferences and any advice on the most reliable way to link to entry for a specific politician. Cheers. olderwiser 14:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Belated reply: I don't have a strong preference about citation. I did come across a Political Graveyard source template earlier (a startling discovery at the time), but maybe it has been deleted since then. I'm too tired right now to go hunting for it.
The site will shortly be moving to a different server, so it doesn't make much sense to mention a "publisher".
Probably the site's name ought to be prominent, and mine mentioned later or not at all. That template I found earlier didn't mention me at all, just that "this article incorporates facts from The Political Graveyard" or words to that effect. But I'm certainly not hiding my name, and if standard citation practice demands that it be included in Wikipedia source notes, I won't argue.
Links to entries on specific politicians seem to work very well in Firefox, not so well in Internet Explorer. I have someone working with me on update and redesign, and I expect that will be addressed. Kestenbaum 07:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Bill Sali[edit]

The anonymous fellow on the Bill Sali page is REALLY starting to try my patience, and I could use some backup. Could you take a long at the discussion page/recent history and get involved, please? I'd really appreciate it. (Please respond on my talk page.) Thanks!

--texasmusician 02:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Understood. An occasional third/fourth voice on the discussion page would be nice, particularly when it's just him and me back-and-forth on the same reverts (for the first time, we seem to have hit something we can't de facto compromise on), and a nanny tiebreaker would be appreciated. I'm too much of a Wiki amateur to know the official mediation process. Anyways, thanks for whatever you can do!

--texasmusician 05:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

T. Casey Brennan[edit]

I have a new comic on sale at the Vault of Midnight on Main St. in Ann Arbor. It's called ACTOR COMICS PRESENTS #1. Spiderman & the Hulk are on the cover; my story is on page 47. I wrote Vampirella in the 70s...I'm now a singer/lyricist in a band called FRANKENHEAD; a video of my song LET THEM RISE was on the 2005 Halloween episode of a local punk rock show, Crazy Mark TV. You should be able to get it directly with this URL (takes forever to load; be patient):

Kitaro's Sideshow, podcast in Israel (which ALSO takes forever to load) just played my songs on shows #36 and #37, at...

The song & refs to me are on toward the end on both shows.

This is my band's page (my 2 songs are SOCIAL WORKER BLUES and LET THEM RISE:

Celebrity Homeless List w/my name, plus fan pages about me...

This is a comic book oriented fan page with the trenchcoat photo:

This is my column at Popimage:

This is from The Konformist magazine; scroll down to get the trenchcoat photo cropped & with caption: "sexiest JFK MK-ULTRA assassin alive":

This is from a professor at the University of Rhode Island; no photo:

Satanic Reds T. Casey Brennan fan page...satire of Hare Krishnas; has trenchcoat photo wreathed in flowers:

Anathema Research's original T. Casey Brennan archive reposted with new material by the Mind Control Forums, but no photo:

This is the NEW TCB fan page, with Clinton document, but no photo:


T. Casey Brennan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fullmoonguy (talkcontribs) 07:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

New NRHP Collaboration Division[edit]

Hey, saw you were a participant in the National Register of Historic Places WikiProject. I thought I would let you know that there is a new Collaboration Division up for the project. The goal of the division is to select an article or articles for improvement to Good article standard or higher. There is a simple nomination process, which you can check out on the division subpage, to make sure each candidate for collaboration has enough interested editors. This is a good way to get a lot of articles to a quality status quickly. Please consider participating. More details can be seen at the division subpage. IvoShandor 11:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you have a look at these articles and their talk?[edit]

Could you have a look at these articles and their talk?

I feel the articles are extremely well sourced and balanced. I'd like somebody else to remove the tags. Please look at my last versions, because I have run up against somebody from the evolution/creation universe who wants to troll around for lehakholis (Aramaic word, you might be able to guess what it means). --Metzenberg 03:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Just Greetings[edit]

Saw your link via LJ and just wanted to say HI! :) An Earthshine 19:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Congressional District article[edit]

Could you take a look at Illinois' 3rd congressional district and offer any suggestions or ideas? I've been working on it for a while, and would be interested in anything you might think of it. There's a little bit I want to add in the next day or two, but most of my other ideas are more long-range. (There are also a couple of things I hope you can help me track down, but those can wait; for now, I'd just like your opinion on the article so far.) MisfitToys 02:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't have much experience reading Wikipedia articles about specific congressional districts, but this article certainly looks admirably thorough, and easily answered every question I could think of at 1:50 am.
Having a single article on the 3rd district (I.e., the history of all the 3rd congressional districts Illinois has ever had) feels peculiar to me, but that's obviously the Wikipedia way of doing things. The historical continuity of district numbering in Illinois certainly helps. Michigan had that kind of continuity in congressional district numbering for twelve decades, until it was smashed in 1992. Kestenbaum 05:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for having a look. One specific thing I wanted to ask: according to various editions of CQ's Presidential Elections Since 1789, county-by-county popular vote totals for president throughout the U.S. since 1824 are maintained by the Inter-University Consortium for Political Research at the University of Michigan. Do you know if these have been published in any reasonably accessible volume? For now, I'm looking for Illinois voting by county for 1832-1868. MisfitToys 22:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated[edit]

Hello there, I am a fellow member of Wikiproject jazz. I was wondering, if you had a moment to spare, if you would be willing to give your opinion on a matter at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 15 concerning a category I created. The category is [[Category:Jazz musicians of New Orleans]], and it has been proposed that the article be merged with Musicians of New Orleans and American jazz musicians. This is precisely why I created the category, because it seemed to me the birthplace of jazz music and continous modern symbol of jazz certainly deserves a category unto itself. Regardless of your opinion, I would greatly appreciate your input there so as to have a discussion over the matter. Thanks. (Mind meal 03:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

New categories for jazz musicians[edit]

Hello fellow member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Jazz! I am delivering this message to all members of the project to inform them of a major addition to the evolution of this project. Please see Category:Jazz musicians by genre to familiarize yourselves with the new categories for jazz musicians. Most of the genre categories contain sub-genres in their drop-down menus, so be sure to open them up! I am sending this to everyone to speed up the population of these categories. The sub-genres have been carefully researched to ensure they belong under their corresponding "mother genre"! And please, when in doubt do not categorize something via an assumption. Well, that about covers it! Any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated.(Mind meal 05:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC))

Category: SF Fans[edit]

There has been another a call for discussion for the deletion of the Science Fiction fans category.Shsilver 22:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Convention Delegates Categories[edit]

With regard to the categories for convention delegates, I think the idea is to flesh-out information about people who are already notable, not to include all 50,000 delegates. As I understand it many of them are regular business owners and students who would not meet the notability requirements. I believe that the categories themselves, however, help identify notable political figures, especially ones who may only have a stub biography. MrPrada 14:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you (and obviously I think delegates are important), but the similar category for county officials, which I tried to defend with the same arguments, got deleted. Kestenbaum 14:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Yea, I suppose the deletions can be inconsitent from time to time. There are county and even town level categories for New York State. My favorite obscure Category is "Comptrollers of Eerie County, NY". I once remarked in an AfD on a Town Supervisor article that there are 400 some odd articles in the Female Porn Star category, none of which are sourced. What does this say about notability if we're going to keep those and get rid of Town Supervisor articles? Perhaps they both should be gotten rid of. I happen to believe there is room for both. The same goes for the categories. If someone flags them, I will go with whatever the Wiki-consensus decides. MrPrada 20:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Rollin Dart[edit]

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Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Rollin Dart, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Rollin Dart seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Rollin Dart, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. CSDWarnBot 00:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Dart Family Pages[edit]

Hi, I got your message. I doubt I'll be able to contribute much to either of the pages you've created anytime soon as I'm pretty busy at the moment (law school, your userpage says you're an attorney, so you must understand), but I've added them to my watchlist and will oppose any votes for deletion, as I think both subjects are notable. Incidentally, I suspect there's very little overlap between lawyers and doc corbin dart fans. You and I belong to a rare breed. --Osbojos 07:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians by alma mater and subcats[edit]

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Category:Wikipedians by alma mater and subcats. Since you participated in the deletion discussion for these categories, you might want to participate in the deletion review. - auburnpilot talk 17:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

New T. Casey Brennan Interview in Ann Arbor[edit]

There's an article on me on page 14 of REAL DETROIT WEEKLY; Feb. 6-12 issue, says "Don't Sleep on VAMPIRE WEEKEND!!!" on the cover. It's a free weekly newspaper; there's a free box of them in front of the Ann Arbor post office & elsewhere. -- T. Casey Brennan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fullmoonguy (talkcontribs) 15:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Political graveyard entries on Frank Murphy[edit]

Dear Larry: I was at your political graveyard site, and was not finding a way to write you there. Sorry for writing you here, but it seemed like a direct way to get to you.

You've got the information about him correct as Supreme Court justice, but you show a bunch of other entries that also pertain to him, and say odd things like "presumed dead" and 'grave unknown.' This would apply, inter alia, to him as mayor of Detroit, Recorder's court judge, etc. I've put together a fairly complete article on him in Wikipedia, which connects to a number of good sites, including yours and Find-a-Grave. P.S., I do like your Political graveyard site, and its been most helpful in Wiki-work. Best regards.7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Stan

Yes, I'm aware there are some problems there, and I think I have fixed them in the database. The web site needs to be updated, and I'm working on that. I'll look at (and link to) his Wikipedia page. Kestenbaum (talk) 15:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Sorry that I put that remark on your user page. Excuse the error, please. Given the pages that you've worked on, your thoughts and assistance on Frank Murphy would of course be valuable. Best. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Stan
No problem, and thanks for bringing this to my attention. Nice job on the Murphy article. Was William Francis his birth name? Kestenbaum (talk) 19:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it was his birth name. Thanks for the kind word. I also have an electronic copy of the article referenced in Frank Murphy that was written by (and sent to me by) my friend, Theodore J. St. Antoine, which has a lot of good information about his influence on federal labor policy. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:52, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Stan

New article State Bar of Michigan[edit]

This is just a beginning. As someone who has lots of related experience, your help would be appreciated. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Stan

I'll see what I can do. Kestenbaum (talk) 19:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Political Graveyard - Charles "Charlie" Norwood[edit]

This politician, Charlie Norwood, died last year, it appears you haven't updated the site with it. - Presidentman (talk) Random Picture of the Day 23:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The update is in the database, and will be reflected when I get the complete new version of the site online. Kestenbaum (talk) 19:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Samuel Beardsley[edit]

The discussion for the renaming of the cat was closed, so I'm bringing this issue to you here. The aforementioned is an example of the problem with the cat. As the article appaprently attests the highest court in New York used to be called the Supreme Court. So what should be done with all those that are in the cat, should I move them to the cat for the Court of Appeals cat, the correct but misnamed cat?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 17:09, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that would be a good idea, at least, until we have a clearer picture of what the structure was in Beardsley's day and when it changed. Kestenbaum (talk) 19:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Photo of you[edit]

Hi Larry, I have been contributing to the wikipedia article which features you as a subject. The Political Graveyard features a Creative Commons License. However the "meet the site's creator" link you provide sends the reader to The general look and layout of is the same as the political graveyard. Did you intend the information on to also be covered under creative commons? I am looking for a photo of you to include with your article. If you have no objection, I would like to use the photo you include at Could you please clarify the copyright? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Good question. I will resolve that later this evening. Kestenbaum (talk) 01:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Your pic is up. Thanks for updating the Political Graveyard! What is the best way to send you info to use on your website? Your email address seems to have changed. Politics n such (talk) 20:49, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed Politics n such (talk · contribs) uploaded Image:LawrenceKestenbaum.jpg‎ with a license of {{cc-by-sa-3.0}}, but the source that was cited, links to, which is Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported. The note at the bottom of also notes non-commercial use only. Unfortunately, images restricted to non-commercial use are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia. Please see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags: For an image to be considered "free" under Wikipedia's Image use policy, the license must permit both commercial reuse and derivative works. olderwiser 11:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter[edit]

This newsletter was automatically delivered by ShepBot because you are a member of the WikiProject. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list. Delivered by §hepBot (Disable) on 04:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter

This newsletter was automatically delivered because you are a member of one or more Judaism related WikiProjects. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list.

  • Newsletter delivery by xenobot 02:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Just another note of thanks

I just noticed that you are active on Wikipedia, and, since I'd just now cited the Political Graveyard in the article on Booth Tarkington, I thought I'd drop you a note to say thanks for working on, and making available, the Political Graveyard. Have you considered getting it mirrored at or some such place as that? I hope it's been copied by the Wayback Machine, but more is better. As someone mentioned further up the page, it'll be a valuable source for researchers for a long time to come -- but only if it doesn't disappear when you are unable to keep paying for hosting. In any case, thanks for your work. JesseW, the juggling janitor 19:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It's very motivating to be praised for doing something fun.
I gave up some time ago on finding any academic or institutional support for the site, and I'm not optimistic about finding someone who would be willing and able to take it over when I'm gone. But I hope and expect that will be a good many years away.
How would I go about dealing with ibiblio? Kestenbaum (talk) 21:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, the place to start is by reading this page; the Graveyard seems to neatly satisfy all of their criteria. Let me know what luck you have, or if you have questions. JesseW, the juggling janitor 04:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Larry, I know some people at UNC who have been involved with ibiblio since it was sunsite, let me know if some introduction would be useful. Edward Vielmetti (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

The Judaism Newsletter[edit]

This newsletter was automatically delivered because you are a member of one or more Judaism related WikiProjects. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list. As always, please direct all questions, comments, requests, barnstars, offers of help, and angry all-caps anti-semitic rants to my talk page. Thanks, and have a great month. L'Aquatique[approves|this|message] 20:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

  • Newsletter delivery by xenobot 21:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

The Political Graveyard - Crispus Attucks Wright

According to this site, he was born on September 11, 1914. - Presidentman (talk) Random Picture of the Day 14:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

According to Google Books he was born in Louisiana. - Presidentman (talk) Random Picture of the Day 14:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The Political Graveyard - Americus Vespucius Rice[edit]

He was born in Perrysville, Ohio, November 18, 1835, died on April 4, 1904 in Washingron D.C. (from the Congressional Biographical Directory). - Presidentman (talk) Random Picture of the Day 14:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The Political Graveyard - John Fretti[edit]

John Fretti is the mayor of my hometown, Valdosta, Georgia, here is his biography. - Presidentman (talk) Random Picture of the Day 21:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Political Graveyard - Thomas C. Wasson[edit]

Thank you for your rather wonderful 'Political Graveyard' which I consulted when I created my first wiki-biog. You have Thomas as presumed deceased. Can I draw your attention to the wikipedia entry for further details. With best wishes.Padres Hana (talk) 11:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:Hornbook -- a new WP:Law task force for the J.D. curriculum[edit]

Hi Kestenbaum,

I'm asking Wikipedians who are interested in United States legal articles to take a look at WP:Hornbook, the new "JD curriculum task force".

Our mission is to assimilate into Wikipedia all the insights of an American law school education, by reducing hornbooks to footnotes.

  • Over the course of a semester, each subpage will shift its focus to track the unfolding curriculum(s) for classes using that casebook around the country.
  • It will also feature an extensive, hyperlinked "index" or "outline" to that casebook, pointing to pages, headers, or {{anchors}} in Wikipedia (example).
  • Individual law schools can freely adapt our casebook outlines to the idiosyncratic curriculum devised by each individual professor.
  • I'm encouraging law students around the country to create local chapters of the club I'm starting at my own law school, "Student WP:Hornbook Editors". Using WP:Hornbook as our headquarters, we're hoping to create a study group so inclusive that nobody will dare not join.

What you can do now:

1. Add WP:Hornbook to your watchlist, {{User Hornbook}} to your userpage, and ~~~~ to Wikipedia:Hornbook/participants.
2. If you're a law student,
(You don't have to start the club, or even be involved in it; just help direct me to someone who might.)
3. Introduce yourself to me. Law editors on Wikipedia are a scarce commodity. Do knock on my talk page if there's an article you'd like help on.

Regards, Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 20:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Joseph Henry Sharp[edit]

It's unclear why you added the additional artists to see also. Could you explain? Yworo (talk) 14:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

They were contemporaries of his who were also noted for portraiture of American Indians. Kestenbaum (talk) 00:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program at MSU[edit]

Hi! I'm leaving you this message because you're listed as a Wikipedian associated with Michigan State University. The Wikipedia Ambassador Program is currently looking for Campus Ambassadors to help with Wikipedia assignments at MSU, which will be participating in the Public Policy Initiative for the Spring 2011 semester. The role of Campus Ambassadors will be to provide face-to-face training and support for students on Wikipedia-related skills (how to edit articles, how to add references, etc.). This includes doing in-class presentations, running workshops and labs, possibly holding office hours, and in general providing in-person mentorship for students.

Prior Wikipedia skills are not required for the role, as training will be provided for all Campus Ambassadors (although, of course, being an experienced editor is a plus).

If you are interested in being a Wikipedia Campus Ambassador, or know someone in the East Lansing area who might be, please email me or leave a message on my talk page.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:26, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

May 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States[edit]

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The May 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

.--Kumioko (talk) 02:23, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

June 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States[edit]

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The June 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

--Kumioko (talk) 19:04, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

US National Archives collaboration[edit]

United States National Archives WikiProject
Would you like to help improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to the National Archives and its incredible collection? This summer, the National Archives—which houses some of America's most important historical documents—is hosting me as its Wikipedian in Residence, and I have created WP:NARA to launch these efforts.

There are all sorts of tasks available for any type of editor, whether you're a writer, organizer, gnome, coder, or image guru. The National Archives is making its resources available to Wikipedia, so help us forge this important relationship! Please sign up and introduce yourself. Dominic·t 15:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The WikiProject National Archives Newsletter[edit]

The first ever WikiProject National Archives newsletter has been published. Please read on to find out what we're up to and how to help out! There are many opportunities for getting more involved. Dominic·t 21:30, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

July 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States[edit]

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The July 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

--Kumioko (talk) 01:20, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Russell Crowell[edit]

"Wikipedia is extremely weak on pre-Internet-era labor union leaders. The president of an AFL-CIO international union ought to be considered per se notable." You're arguing WP:ILIKEIT and WP:ITSNOTABLE, which are weightless arguments. There's no such thing as "per se notable". Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 18:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


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Hello, Kestenbaum. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Russell_Crowell.
Message added 19:17, 10 August 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 19:17, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

September 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States[edit]

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The September 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

--Kumioko (talk) 23:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

December 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States[edit]

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The December 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

--Kumioko (talk) 02:40, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

January 2012 Newsletter for WikiProject United States and supported projects[edit]

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The January 2012 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

--Kumi-Taskbot (talk) 19:29, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey Larry[edit]

I didn't know you were a Wikipedia guy... I just bumped into your name snooping the edit history of Robert Morss Lovett. I'm playing with a new page for Committee of 48 this week, feel free to tack some stuff on there if you've got some good sourced material perking about. There's surprisingly little written on them in All The Usual Sources, it seems. best, —Tim Davenport //// //// Carrite (talk) 05:27, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Coordinator sought for the US National Archives WikiProject[edit]

NARA Logo created 2010.svg

Greetings, WikiProject US National Archives member!

We are seeking a coordinator to help reboot the project and work on new initiatives! The role is modeled after other Wikiproject coordinators, like the WikiProject Military History coordinators. The coordinator will work with the Wikipedian in Residence to organize and increase participation in the WikiProject, with the goal that the WikiProject is an active space for collaboration maintained by and for the Wikipedia editors, rather than the National Archives.

Please see the full information at Wikipedia:GLAM/NARA/Coordinator and contact me is you have any questions. Feel free to pass this note along to any interested parties. Thanks! Dominic·t 21:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Documents at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library and Museum[edit]


I work at the Gerald Ford Presidential Library and Museum, and we are uploading materials to Wikimedia Commons. We have a number of documents that might be of interest to you - they are located at Wikimedia, Category:Documents at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library and Museum.

If you are interested in writing articles/stubs, I may be able to provide you with pictures from our archives as well. We have a limited number of artifacts, to also at Wikimedia, Category:Artifacts at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library and Museum.

Let me know if I can help in any way, and please feel free to pass the word about these docs; I'd love to see some content generated around them....thanks! Bdcousineau (talk) 19:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle[edit]

Decemmber 8 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited
Seattle Public Library
  • Date Saturday, December 8, 2012
  • Time 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.
  • Location Seattle Public Library Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library, 1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104
  • Event An editathon on Seattle-related Wikipedia articles with Wikipedia tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand.
  • Hashtag #wikiloveslib or #glamwiki.
  • Registration or use on-wiki regsistration.

Yours, Maximilianklein (talk) 03:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Michigan Wikipedians[edit]

Michigan Wikipedians Logo.svg

Greetings Kestenbaum! I noticed that you made mention of the University of Michigan or Ann Arbor on your userpage. If you are a current student, faculty, or other affiliate at the University of Michigan, I would like to welcome you, on behalf of the Michigan Wikipedians, to our next weekly meeting on Monday September 30 (and every Monday thereafter). The meetings are held at 8:00 PM (EDT) in the University of Michigan Shapiro Library, room 4041. New and experienced editors alike are most welcome. Do not hesitate to leave me a message if you have any questions, and feel free to stop by the MWiki talk page. The Michigan Wikipedians are excited to meet you! Arbitrarily0 (talk) 00:24, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Milton Wolf (politician)[edit]

Thanks for your edit. You should know that I tried to do the "second cousin, once removed" thing and was challenged because the cited source isn't explicit that Wolf's mother is Obama's grandmother's FIRST cousin. See the article's talk page for the exchange (which also involved a stupid mistake I made confusing the name of Obama's mother with the name of his grandmother). I hadn't yet had a chance to hunt down a better source, but if you could that would be great. --JohnPomeranz (talk) 19:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)to

Um, isn't it just the definition of cousinship? Wolf's mother and Madelyn Dunham were first cousins. When first cousins have offspring, they are second cousins to each other. And Obama is the child of Wolf's second cousin. I realize that some people don't understand the geometry here, but do we really need a citation for this? Kestenbaum (talk) 19:21, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
The problem, apparently, was that the source I cited said that Wolf's mom and Madelyn were "cousins" but it didn't say "first cousins." While I'm sure that the source meant first cousins, it is theoretically possible that it meant that they were even more distant cousins, so the editor who reverted my edit wants a source that says "first cousins." --JohnPomeranz (talk) 20:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Found a cite. We're good. --JohnPomeranz (talk) 17:19, 24 October 2013 (UTC)