User talk:Kirin13

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open discussions below – closed in archive

Jelena Glebova[edit]

Hey, sorry - for some reason I didn't notice your explanation for the change. However, since Estonia was occupied by the Soviet Union during the time of her birth and according to international law (as supported by several international organizations and most independent states) the occupation and annexation into the USSR was illegal and therefore void, the name "Estonia" should be used. That is the case for almost all the articles on people born during that period in Estonia. H2ppyme (talk) 17:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

@H2ppyme: The Soviet Union was the de facto government. The way listed is the way I've seen individuals born in any of the SSRs listed. I noticed that you've been changing place of birth on a lot of Estonian biographies. Where was consensus for this established? Thanks, Kirin13 (talk) 17:33, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
The consensus is the 99% of articles on people born in Estonia during that period. I merely changed the 1%. You and a couple of more editors are the only ones who keep fighting it, and only on some certain pages, often in sports-related articles for some reason.H2ppyme (talk) 21:41, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
@H2ppyme: By your reasoning, the consensus of 99% sport articles is to list SSR. Has this ever been discussed? On an Estonia project page perhaps? Is there any Wikipedia standard for this (over history plenty of places have been illegally occupied or annexed)? Or is this "whoever changes the most pages has consensus"-consensus? Regards, Kirin13 (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
There have been official discussions before and they have resulted in no consensus. However since 99% of all the articles had simply "Estonia" in the infobox even before I first started reverting the 1% back from "Estonian SSR". And this is the point - many places have been illegally annexed and occupied. However, their controlling power has been usually disregarded, since it was often Nazi Germany. For some reason people are much less keen to keep Germany as the birthplace than the Soviet Union, which occupied foreign territories quite in the same way...H2ppyme (talk) 22:08, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
@H2ppyme: Nazi Germany is just one of hundreds of examples over history. I haven't been part of those discussions, but one reason people may be "less keen" is because it was wartime occupation and of relatively short duration (compared to Eastonia where it was 50 years without active warfare). If there is no consensus, then I'm not sure by which consensus you're changing articles behind the scenes. I encourage you to try to get consensus again. Regards, Kirin13 (talk) 22:16, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
I understand the petty reasons for disagreement, but the UN, the Council of Europe and the European Union have declared the Soviet occupation to have been illegal - that makes it just as illegal as the Nazi occupations during the war. I see no difference whether an occupying power signed birth certificates for 4 years or 49 years in that aspect. Furthermore - many of the articles that I have changed once only had "Estonia" in their infoboxes, but were at some point changed to "Estonian SSR" by some possibly Russian editors. I have no interest to start the discussion again, it went on as long that you could write a book about it. Ca. 2/3 of the editors supported using either the legal name or the geographic name (both Estonia), while some simply compared the situation to the other Soviet republics. Anyways, the result was obviously no consensus. However I see nothing wrong with keeping things in line, since the only articles that seem to use "Estonian SSR" seem to be either some random articles re-changed by single editors or new articles about ethnic Russian football and ice hockey players or figure skaters. It is obvious that these are articles that are mostly created by ethnic Russians, since those sports really are more popular among Russians. Therefore it is no wonder they have used a different style in the infoboxes. If it was up to me, I would only use geographically well-defined area names, not the legal state entities per se.H2ppyme (talk) 22:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Denis Ten[edit]

Hello, I noticed there has been a series of editing in the article on Denis Ten concerning his quad jump. I did some reference search and included the result in Talk:Denis Ten. I hope this helps to bring a closure on this matter. Seameetsmountain (talk) 05:28, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

@Seameetsmountain: replied there. Thanks for all the work tracking down sources and details. Cheers, Kirin13 (talk) 07:54, 25 December 2014 (UTC)