User talk:Leki

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Here is my talk page. Periodically, I archive things. Except for the first message I received. I keep that. Its nice.

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Leki, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  BlankVerse 06:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Template:IrishA[edit]

Yo Leki, great idea with this template! I've created a version of it that uses {{sidebar with collapsible lists}} (like {{anarchism sidebar}}) in a sandbox here if you'd like to take a look. Although I haven't been able to get the stylistic features to work with the sidebar template, I think it would be more editor-friendly and in line with standardisation practices. Cheers,  Skomorokh, barbarian  06:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Your version does look better. I based mine on {{IrishM}} which is a Irish Monarchism template. There is a series of these Irish politics templates and I'm not sure who (or what WikiProject) maintains them. I never saw a page about them but it might be a good idea to try and keep the consistent feel that they have been using (or maybe change them all). Just thinking that they might be particular about their colors/flags. I dont really mind how it looks, I just would hope the {{IrishA}} template would get equal treatment as {{IrishU}} or the other pro-statist sidebars. Keep up the great work. LEKI (talk) 06:41, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
It would definitely be ideal if the series was consistent then. Speaking from the Anarchism task force, the styling used in the anarchist template is likely controversial owing to its communist connotations (cf. anarchist symbolism). Do you happen to know the editor(s) who came up with the original idea for these Irish political sidebars? I don't want to step on anyone's toes...  Skomorokh, barbarian  07:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
No, don't know who's doing the Ireland WikiProject. I had looked for a politics task force but didnt see one. I was aware of the anarco-syndicalist connotations but used red based on what I had read about the WSM and the idea that maybe there was a style guide that called for black text on a color (and black on black wouldnt work) as all the others were black on a color. Anyway, I changed it to white on black and will see what happens. LEKI (talk) 07:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


Orphaned non-free image (File:Ucsb-hat.png)[edit]

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WikiProject Scouting elections[edit]

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Nomination for deletion of Template:IrishA[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svgTemplate:IrishA has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Gnevin (talk) 17:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Facebook-wirehog.png[edit]

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Sporting goods[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Sporting goods has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Donnie Park (talk) 00:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Love-ava-poster.jpg[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Love-ava-poster.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Facebook GAR[edit]

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Orphaned non-free image File:Lovelive.jpg[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Lovelive.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 07:20, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll[edit]

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:06, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Without humans[edit]

Category:Without humans, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:02, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll[edit]

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

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Templates for discussion[edit]

Since the discussion on the Templates for discussion page is now closed I am denied the opportunity to respond there, but I note two points from your comment.
1. Whether the document being referred to is a guideline, a policy, a rule, a law or a dictat from on high you have still not offered any sensible reasoned argument or rationale for why we should not comply with it.
2. You have yourself twice stated (in your original comment on the discussion page and in your comment to my comment) that, "occasional exceptions may apply" without any attempt to explain how articles on two thousand authors counts as an "occasional exception". You are not proposing an "occasional exception", you are proposing to ignore by default the guidelines for a whole swathe of the articles on Wikipedia. That is not an "occasional exception", it is a complete revision of the guideline with no justification or rationale whatsoever.
Cottonshirtτ 05:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi @Cottonshirt:! I'm glad to have you share ideas with me! I'll respond here:
1. That's a good point. I haven't offered an argument for why we should not comply with the guideline. This is because I am not sure the guideline is absolutely being violated.
Section 9 of the ELNO guideline currently reads "one should generally avoid providing external links to[...] Any search results pages, such as links to individual website searches, search engines, search aggregators, or RSS feeds." I'm not sure the library page's listing of their catalog is the type of page the guideline was written in regards to and consensus formed around (though it's possible). Just as a Judge must decipher what lawmakers intended a statute to mean, as editors we have to apply a level of discretion in figuring out what a guideline means.
While the guideline does say 'any', I think the 'such as' is a key part that is informing us of the intended meaning. Individual website searches might be something like italiancookingblog.tld/search?q=recipes and this might be linked from the article 'Pizza'. The inclusion of this 'individual website search' should 'generally [be] avoid[ed]'. I agree. This 'search page' is a true definition of a search page -- it provides a listing of the online blog entries of a specific blog that could otherwise be found by the user using a normal search engine (such as the search google.com/search?q=recipes+site:italiancookingblog.tld ). The utility of the 'search page' is roughly equivalent to the utility of a commercial search engine like Google. This does little to help the reader, who ultimately all of our work is for.
However, the library catalog's database listing is rather different -- each listing refers to a physical object available, likely some of the very objects we suggest to the reader in our Sources, Notes, and Further Reading sections, for checkout at the user's local library. This seems more like the other long-standing book suggestion tool seen at Special:BookSources/0262518201 for example.
If my perspective is incorrect and the guideline does indeed apply, I am not even sure we would need to elaborate on WP:ELNO with "Any search results pages, such as links to individual website searches, search engines, search aggregators, or RSS feeds (with the exception of library resources as provided for in the optionally included library resources templates)" as the ELNO section itself qualifies the avoidance with "one should generally avoid" and guidelines by policy (WP:PG) allow for exceptions. If editors feel otherwise, I support the rephrasing of ELNO #9 to allow for these templates.
2. I'm not sure what the policy means by "occasional exception". You imply it refers to article quantity (the presence of the template on a number of articles, perhaps as a percentage [0.05%] of the 4.2 million articles). Perhaps occasional is meant to mean "intended for supplementary use when needed", its second definition in the Random House dictionary. I don't know, I didn't write the policy on guidelines. I think your suggestion that the non-deletion of this template is a "complete revision" with "no justification or rationale" provided is somewhat drastic as numerous editors have commented saying the template furthers the goals of the encyclopedia by directly helping our readers, a noble and worthwhile justification indeed.
I'm glad someone is looking out for the community's suggested guidelines, but again, I'm not even sure the suggested guidelines are being violated. Best! --LEKI (talk) 08:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. You appear to say that when reading the guideline we should ignore the inclusive term "any" and instead interpret "such as" to be a complete list of those things to be avoided. What the guideline actually says is that we should generally avoid any external searches, and then it helpfully lists some examples of what is meant; "such as" literally means, "for example". It should be obvious that searching a library catalogue is an external search covered by "any", but because the author of the guideline did not include a fully inclusive list of everything that might be searched you choose to interpret it to mean, "anything not listed is fair game". That reading would appear to defeat both the wording and the spirit of the guideline.
Secondly, if the intent of the template is, as you suggest, to be helpful to the user, by locating the book in a local library where he can then read it for himself, why is it that the searching website has no idea where the user is located? The search is of use only if it returns results from which the user can benefit. There is no point me being told there is a copy in the New York Central library if I live in Milan, Italy. If you would care to explain how the searching website knows where I live (users do not, generally, log on to Wikipedia) I will concede that the search may be of benefit, but a list of every library on the planet with a copy of that book is, essentially, of no use whatsoever. It is, in fact, no more useful than the generic "pizza" search you mention in your reply as being of no benefit to the user. Cottonshirtτ 17:08, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
@Cottonshirt: I support some of your ideas here. Maybe using an IP geolocation database to add geotargeting intelligence to the suggested libraries would be a beneficial improvement (I think a number of IP databases are available under the GNU). Thanks for raising these points --LEKI (talk) 00:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I note from your reply two things: 1) you have by some convoluted logic of your own devising conflated my questions about the validity of your approach, and twisted them into "ideas". Since it is obvious I am not offering ideas but asking questions I can only conclude that you either do not understand what I said, or you are being deliberately obtuse and dishonest.
2) Despite having been asked three times now, you still haven't answered the question. Why are you ignoring the advice of the guideline? In your post of 10-May you claimed that the guideline was not being violated, but in my reply of 11-May I have clearly rebutted that claim and you have still to provide an explanation, rationale or justification for simply ignoring the guideline. In the absence of an answer to this reasonable question I can only conclude that you don't actually have an answer and are simply determined to force through this template come what may.

It would seem, therefore, that you pretend to be glad that someone is looking out for Wikipedia but at the same time you ignore the salient points raised by my questions and dissemble, obfuscate and fail to act in good faith. You are, essentially, determined to break the rules if you can possibly get away with it and you fail to realise that it is exactly this behaviour that has driven two thirds of editors away from Wikipedia. If you and your ilk continue in this vein you will end up not with an Encyclopedia to be proud of, but an anarchic playground for the illiterate and ignorant majority who don't even know how little they know, who fail to realise how stupid they are and have no concept of how far they have come from the laudable goals Wikipedia was meant to achieve. Cottonshirtτ 05:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox photographer[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Infobox photographer has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:40, 17 February 2014 (UTC)