User talk:Maproom

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Hi,

If you start a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. If I start a conversation on your talk page, please respond to me there, I will have your talk page on my watch list.

Thank you. Maproom (talk) 08:57, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Contents

Archives[edit]

2007–2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014

2015: January[edit]

Please comment on Talk:Astrophysics[edit]

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Skeleton of a map[edit]

Skeleton of a map or underlying graph is a shortcut for a 1-skeleton.Tomo (talk) 17:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Bonobo[edit]

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Ombre[edit]

I agree with you what glossary means, which made me improve the display of those terms. The way that you put is quite confusing for the eye to spot them in two different lines. Nonetheless, the way that it is now, it also improves reading. Thank you for calling my attention to the problem.

I read somewhere that you are not satisfied with the article and the way that it is presented to the readers out there. As you know, the historical content is very important to date card games once many are passed over through oral tradition, specially variations. After interminable disputes and resolutions on how to proceed on this field, some people at least agree that the "how to" content must be explained, not taught. That is, rules are an integral part of the game, whatever game it is.

What the other User is doing (mainly playing cards, not card games) has already been done, not only by me but by many others before me. Every now and then this is necessary once people add things that disrupt and confuse the readers. I am a card game researcher and I can assure you that the way that Ombre was and is played today has been described in a short, precise, and assertive way. If there is anything I can do to help you with it, it will be my pleasure to assist you. Krenakarore TK 14:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I like what you have done with the glossary.
"I read somewhere ...": maybe you read it here. I am concerned only with the "Ombre Renegado", which aims to give the rules of one form of the game. I think this needs improvement, for example, it does not say who bids first. Maproom (talk) 16:20, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
For a good reader, half a word is a complete sentence ! What you said about Ombre Renegado sounds more like a variation of this three-handed variety to me (as the game was taken from one place to another new rules were added such as a bid in Diamonds, described by David Parlett in his website. The best would be if you presented a reference to this so-called another form of the game.) Keep on copy-editing (what you mentioned is correct, "the Eldest, the player to the right of the Dealer, bids first" and also "if two players have the same bid the Younger has priority") to make it better once that calls attention from other Users who, like Countakeshi or Newwhist (the expert on Bridge in Wikipedia), have playing cards as their major. I'll follow. Krenakarore TK 20:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
I didn't intend to say anything about Ombre Renegado. I used the words only because they form the title of the section in the article which aims to give an account of how to play. So I don't know what you are inviting me to give references for.
I agree that anything by David Parlett is a reliable reference. So, I believe, is pagat.com.
I believe that what you say above "if two players have the same bid the Younger has priority" is mistaken. The article itself, and the Pagat article, both specify that the Elder has priority. Maproom (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
That's what I meant by "as the game was taken from one place to another, it evolved". "If two players have the same bid, the Younger has priority" is what I found on Parlett website, so I guess he must be mistaken somehow. Let's do the following: modify that section on how to play Ombre Renegado, according to what you see fit and we will see what we can do as for the references. Just let me get the hang of the thing. Krenakarore TK 23:20, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
I see that is indeed what it says on David Parlett's web site at http://www.davpar.eu/histocs/ombre.html. But in his "A Dictionary of Card Games", OUP, 1992, he writes "A player who has made a lower bid, and not yet passed, may raise his bid to equal that of the next bid against him, thus gaining the contract (unless overcalled again) by virtue of prior position." Maproom (talk) 11:06, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Yet he does not mention the description being that of Hombre Renegado (not all three-handed versions are the Spanish one. This is just rhetoric. You will find other descriptions on Google Books). On his website he describes two versions: 1727 and 1975. For me, if two players hold the same bidding, and none of them wish to bid higher, the second bid cannot overcall the first. Therefore, Eldest (forehand) has priority over the Younger (middlehand), opposite to what Parlett says. John McLeod (Pagat) describes a current version played in Denmark, but as far as I know by reading 18th and 19th-century descriptions, those rules are different from the Spanish version. We may include Parlett's description on his DCG in the article, once it seems more appropriate ! Krenakarore TK 17:13, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
David Parlett has now updated http://www.davpar.eu/histocs/ombre.html to correct what he agrees was a mistake. Maproom (talk) 16:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Safety of electronic cigarettes[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:G. Edward Griffin[edit]

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Please see...[edit]

A recent (last week or so) edit by you at the Help Desk helped inspire this post at the talk page. I am in no way trying to discourage you from helping at the HD but am just trying to educate. I hope you take this in the helpful spirit that it was intended. Dismas|(talk) 20:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. I learned from what you wrote at the Help Desk's talk page. I believe I even responded in the Help Desk thread, apologising to the OP for misleading her. Maproom (talk) 20:40, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Guess I missed that. My apologies. Thanks for keeping an open mind, Dismas|(talk) 20:46, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:73 (number)[edit]

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Please review the Mohammed Solatn Edit again[edit]

Mohammed Soltan has broke a world record in Hunger Strike. I think it is relevant. I am not going to add it again but I hope you undo your edit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Soltan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.90.58.6 (talk) 22:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I will continue to oppose use of Wikipedia as a soapbox. Maproom (talk) 22:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

February[edit]

Please comment on Talk:Hydraulic fracturing[edit]

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Barnstar for making me laugh[edit]

Barnstar of Humour3.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
For your edit concerning your country's government's incompetence, which you don't find funny, though I found the comment hilarious.  DiscantX 00:32, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:International Space Station[edit]

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Please finish the job![edit]

Please! MicroPaLeo (talk) 17:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Map "mechanical curation"[edit]

I wondered if you were aware of the project described here. James Heald is User:Jheald, mostly active on Commons (the Mechanical Curator collection) and I come across him quite often. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:49, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Maproom! Really good to make contact. (@Charles Matthews: thanks for the introduction!)
The project is about to enter quite a critical phase, with a lot to put in place over the next two or three weeks, so if you were interested in coming on board, there's as much to do as you'd like.
Where we're at is that the BL are just about to upload the 50,000 old maps that have been identified onto the server of the Georeferencer platform by Klokan in Switzerland. Final checks that the images are the right way up have been completed; a set of map images extracted where there were multiple images on one page should go onto Flickr today; 50,000 maps should start uploading to Klokan's server on Monday, and shouldn't take more than 24 hours or so in all. Klokan will take a little bit of time (a few days?) to install them, and for the BL to okay; but it's hoped the set will be ready to go in about 2 weeks.
Which leaves quite a lot to do on the Wiki side.
In terms of tracking & driving the process, I anticipate adding a similar set of coloured tags to the Synoptic and to do index pages, in a similar way that was done for the tagging phase, to mark books that have maps still to georeference; which it should be possible to automatically update -- say every 24 hours.
The bigger issue is what would (I think) be incredibly motivating to get people to participate is if we could encourage them that within 24 hours of their georeferencing a map, it would be uploaded to Commons, automatically appropriately categorised. It should be possible to use the GlamWiki Toolset uploader to do the actual upload. The more challenging steps are:
  1. Trying to create a system to work out as well as it can what the map appears to be of.
  2. Then trying to match that to appropriate Wiki Commons categories (and/or create new ones if needed).
There's a batch of 3,000 maps already geo-referenced to use as test pieces. So far, using Nominatim on the centre point plus the four points 40% of the way towards each corner I have been able to get some way with identifying continents, countries, and counties. (Though there are difficulties, eg for border areas, and counties/continents surrounded by sea.)
Some examples can be seen at eg
There are also titles that people have typed in, but these aren't always especially useful. Using Wikidata, I think I should also be able to do a bit better for plans of buildings / cathedrals / castles etc; battlefields may be more of a problem, but something to look at; also trying to recognise when a map is of a county or city, vs of part of that county/city.
Let me know whether you'd be interested in a copy of spreadsheets etc (or alternatively, where we can agree to put them in a shared place).
The second part of the problem is then trying to map that into Wiki Commons's category system. For most countries, there should be an "Old maps of X" category. Sometimes it will be broken up by date though. There may also be an "Old maps of places in X". Sometimes there may be explicit categories for old maps of regions / counties / cities; and for old maps or plans of buildings within them. Additionally, there may be a Commons (non-map) category for the place itself -- eg for a castle -- or alternatively for castles within X, where X might be a county of a country or whatever. So all of this structure is going to need some mapping and understanding too.
And the project goes live in about 2 weeks.
So if you would be up for a challenge -- as much or as little as you would like to take on -- you could be invaluable.
All best, Jheald (talk) 11:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
This all sounds very interesting, but I have very little idea of what it is about. For instance - would it involve travelling to the British Library? Maproom (talk) 14:36, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
No, no need to go to the British Library, everything is online; and the next challenges are very much on the programming side, which could be done from anywhere. (Though if something turns up that really needs to be discussed, the BL have been very good about standing me lunch -- though our key contact at the BL is going to be away from the next fortnight.
So: the challenge is 50,000 images that we have identified as maps, found in digitised 19th century books, that are currently parked on Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=12403504@N02&q=map&m=tags
In about three weeks time, people will be encouraged to identify where these are on a map of the modern world, using some software called Georeferencer, as per the demonstration video on the page at
http://www.bl.uk/maps/
One of the most accessible outputs from the georeferencing is a rectangular bounding box, giving the maximum and minimum latitude and longitude of the old map.
The key challenge is how well we can use this bounding box to identify what the old map was of; and then how well we can use that to place it in some appropriate categories on WikiCommons -- automatically, using a computer to identify the place automatically (based on data from online resources); and then to determine the most appropriate categor(y/ies) (using some appropriate model of the WikiCommons category system).
An initial batch of 3000 images has already been georeferenced, specifically these ones
https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=12403504@N02&q=map+has_georef&m=tags
and I have a file that I can share with their bounding boxes.
Based on that, and on Nominatim, I have had some success with these 3000 allocating continents, countries, regions etc; which are now tagged up on Flickr, allowing retrieval with searches like the ones above.
But the identification is not really good enough yet for categorisation
  • it is weak at identifying particular buildings, such as cathedrals or castles (Wikidata may help here, which is the next thing I am looking at);
  • it's not good at identifying whether eg an image is of a county as a whole; or a feature within the county; or several counties (and similarly on a country scale). Often a county map won't be recognised as a county map, but as something on a larger scale; similarly a map of part of a county may not be recognised as not being of the whole county. (& similarly for states & other countries etc).
  • I don't yet have a very good model for the Commons scheme of map categories, old map categories, and ground-plan categories to place places even once identified into the right categories.
So this is what could really use some help -- anything from just advice and a friendly pair of eyes looking over my shoulder, right up to as little or as much of the coding as you liked. I should add that coding so far has mostly been in Perl (as that's really all I'm familiar with), and pretty sketchy. But I am open to going with whatever languages suit.
Hope that's starting to make a little more sense this time round! Jheald (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanations. I still have a bunch of questions:
  • Do I understand correctly, I would be unable to contribute anything for the next three weeks?
  • How would I get hold of a copy of georeferencer?
  • Does it come with a library of modern maps, to go in its right-hand pane?
  • How would I find the most appropriate of these modern maps?
  • Once I have "done" a map, how would I indicate that it has been done?
  • The talk of "bounding rectangles" implies that these will be (a) rectangles, and (b) bounded by lines of latitude and longitude. These two assumptions are, for larger maps, incompatible; and, for older maps, possibly both false. Wouldn't it be safer and more accurate just to store the latitude and longitude of the four corners of each map, and calculate whatever is actually required when it is needed?
Maproom (talk) 22:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't clear.
It's not georeferencing itself that is the immediate priority -- that will come. But the work that's most needed right now is to build a pipeline that can cope with the maps once they have been georeferenced; and in particular, that can then slot them into the right categories on Commons -- as many of those categories as may be appropriate.
But to answer your questions about the georeferencing process itself first. I can come to your specific questions in the next paragraph; but actually, the easiest thing is simply to give it a go, and then I think everything will be a lot clearer. If you go to http://www.bl.uk/maps/ and click on the "Maps already georeferenced" tab, that will open up a map of the world, with pins for the 3000 or so maps already georeferenced. Click on one of those and it will show you the old map. If you then click on the name of the map, it will go into the georeferencer web service, and show you that old map laid on top of a current map of the world. This is the "Visualize" tab (in grey, at the top) If the georeferencing is not quite right (or even if it is), if you now click on the adjacent "Georeference" tab (in black, next door to it), you will go to the editing page, where can add additional control points to the old map and the new map (or move existing ones to more accurate places); you can also switch back and forth back to the "Visualize" tab at any time, to see how you're doing. Once you're happy, hit save; the system will then ask you to confirm the outline of the mapping part of the image, and once that's done it will then lodge the data, and so whoever accesses that map in future will see your improved georeferencing.
So, that's the georeferencing; that we're expecting the 50,000 maps to be available to do in about three weeks (though you can look at all the maps already done in the georeferencer now). To take your specific questions: There's no need to get hold of one's own copy of georeferencer -- it's a service, that's accessed through a website. The maps built in to georeference against include OSM/Mapquest, Google maps, Google satellite, Bing maps, and a fairly coarse 1940s OS map of the UK from the National Library of Scotland; which are selected via a drop-down selector at the top right on the georeferencing page. (I'm also hoping that a circa 1900 OS map of the UK at 1:10,000 that has also been geo-rectified by the NLS may also be added, because it would be a very useful thing to have a less modern map to be able to georeference against; however I don't know whether the BL will manage to organise that). You can switch easily from one modern map to another completely freely, via a pull-down menu, as you go along. Once you've "done" a map, there's a big red "SAVE" button in the top right.
I should also mention that there's a free open-source powered alternative georeferencer on the net, in case there are any maps of your own you would like to georeference -- see http://www.nypl.org/blog/2015/01/05/web-maps-primer for an introduction, and for some things you can do with the maps with open code once they have been georeferenced. An updated version of the open map warper is also currently under development for Commons. https://warper.wmflabs.org/ For various reasons, the BL are going with their existing relationship with Klokan; but the data generated will be completely open, and we can port the control points straight into the open version for Commons.
The georeferencing systems (both of them) are well tried and test. But what needs some quite quick development right now is what we can do with the maps on-wiki, once they have been georeferenced. I believe, from what I've been told, that it should be reasonably easy to track how the georeferencing is going, once the process for the 50,000 gets underway, and to get notification pretty quickly as soon as a new map has been georeferenced. I would then like to upload it straight to Commons. That bit is also reasonably do-able, I think. But the tricky bit, that I think really needs work is (i) to try to identify what the map is of, now that we have its coordinates; and (ii) to map that identification to appropriate WikiCommons categories.
There is a spreadsheet of the data from 3000 maps to work with, to see how far it's possible to get towards cracking this; and I have already made a start, using Nominatim and Wikidata; but it's still a long way from being ready for showtime (which is rapidly approaching).
You're right that idea of the bounding box is crude -- ie the extremal north, west, east and south latitudes and longitudes of the mapping area (which may not be rectangular). However, as a first stab, this is not bad data to start with, to try to work out what the map may be of. The fitted coordinates for a detailed polygonal boundary are also available; but at least to start with, I think that probably complicates more than it helps.
If I can work out the code-sharing and version-control system on Wikimedia ToolLabs, I'll try and put up what I've already done to somewhere it can be shared; and then I'm very open to thoughts for improvement, to try to get the project there.
Hope that's starting to make a bit more sense now. Do, do give Georeferencer (and MapWarper) a whirl. But it's building a back-end for the wiki side that I think has the most work needed that can be done right now. Jheald (talk) 19:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Ok! When there's something specific that you would like me to do, please let me know. Maproom (talk) 13:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Valentine Greets!!![edit]

Wikilove2 new.png Valentine Greets!!!

Hello Maproom, love is the language of hearts and is the feeling that joins two souls and brings two hearts together in a bond. Taking love to the level of Wikipedia, spread the WikiLove by wishing each other Happy Valentine's Day, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person.
Sending you a heartfelt and warm love on the eve,
Happy editing,
WordSeventeen (talk) 12:47, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Valentine Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Please comment on Talk:Azure[edit]

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James Gill (artist)[edit]

Hello, I plan to completely review the article "James Gill (artist)" as it contains a number of violations. The new version (which will be in line with the article in German and French Wikipedia) will fully replace the present entries. - Norbert Schott (talk) 21:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I suggest you discuss this at Talk:James Gill (artist). If you "fully replace" the current article without discussion, your change is very likely to be reverted. Maproom (talk) 06:38, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Magneto (generator)[edit]

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Draft[edit]

Hi. Thanks for your help with editing the Draft:Hans Claessen :) 143.176.216.29 (talk) 10:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link notification for April 22[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Brown rice[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:G. Edward Griffin[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for April 29[edit]

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Lupton family references[edit]

Thanks for your response - If you could please check the dates of Lupton family article - there is some red "help" messages on ref number 77 of the Lupton page which I cannot fix up. Also the "Family of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge" page MIGHT have some of the dates around the wrong way? Thanks again Ed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.50.122 (talk) 12:29, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

The red error message is there because the title of the article cited is missing. As I do not have access to the journal, I can't help. I am not going to check the dates – if you think they may be wrong, you can check them yourself. Maproom (talk) 12:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Traian Vuia[edit]

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A Dobos torte for you![edit]

Dobos cake (Gerbeaud Confectionery Budapest Hungary).jpg 7&6=thirteen () has given you a Dobos Torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it.


To give a Dobos Torte and spread the WikiLove, just place {{subst:Dobos Torte}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

13:48, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Lokiarchaeota[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:List of most-produced aircraft[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Frill-necked lizard[edit]

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