User talk:Mark Arsten/Archive the first

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Merge discussion for Prosperity theology

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, Prosperity theology , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Ltwin (talk) 03:07, 7 August 2011 (UTC) Ltwin (talk) 03:07, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion of Steven Schmidt

You proposed deleting the article for Steven Schmidt - for lack of references. But I think you added references. So why on earth would you delete an article for a reason that you easily remedied?

Not sure I follow that logic.

-- Mgayle23 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:51, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

  • Hi Mgyale, you are partially mistaken here. User:Pburka proposed the article for deletion because of a lack of sources. I happened to come across the article after he/she proposed it for deletion. I added in some sources and removed the proposed deletion template. Someone could still nominate it for deletion through WP:AFD later, but it's safe for now. Interesting article you wrote there, I hope you stick around. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:58, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Tees railway viaducst

Yes, I think that book is about the road bridge - see Tees Viaduct. I saw that article before I made the railway page. JagMoore (talk) 19:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, my mistake. It's a shame how quick that was nominated for deletion though, I hope you are able to turn up some more sources. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the references! ^_^ Bolillorocks (talk) 19:32, 21 October 2011 (UTC)bolillorocks

My pleasure, that's a very interesting topic. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Paul Bach

Apologies, Mark. I had wrongly thought that as long as we quoted the obituary as being a proper source the article would be OK. Thanks.LenF54 (talk) 17:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your further reply, Mark. I want to proceed with the article, particularly as I stated at its creation that the justification was that his Saga Magazine became the largest circulation monthly mag in Britain and this is not a part of the stubbed article you have allowed to remain. When I read my article I still think it is a reasonably constructed piece of work, but as you rightly say it is too similar to the Telegraph's obituary. The problem is that the Telegraph's piece contains almost all the relevant info (other than place and cause of death, wife's maiden name and year of marriage) so any article I write will in some way contain elements of it. I will keep working on it. Could I suggest that if I come up with a sufficiently re-worked piece that I think could replace the current stub, then I put it in my sandbox and ask you to look at it? That way I would not be writing something only for you or another editor to delete it. In the meantime I want to add to the stub about Saga Mag being at one time Britain's biggest selling monthly, otherwise it should be proposed for deletion. LenF54 (talk) 15:37, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright, sounds like a good idea--the article was well-constructed and seems to be a pretty notable topic. Feel free to re-edit the article or work up a draft in a sandbox. I should be able to take a look at your work again, but in case I'm not around Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests might be a good place to get some help, as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:45, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Mark, I put a note on Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests and an editor stated on 4 November that the article looked OK apart from a particular copyright violation - but he wanted a second opinion. I have deleted the offending external link, but no further opinion has been forthcoming. Can you take a look for me please? I have other work queuing up to get into my sandbox User:LenF54/sandbox, and while the Paul Bach article sits there I keep tweaking and adding to it. Currently the article is more about the magazine than Bach! LenF54 (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Hello again, I had totally forgotten about this, thanks for the note. I agree with the other reviewer, this draft looks like it is in good shape. I'm glad to see that you kept going and worked on it some more. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Nextdoor

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

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A tag has been placed on Nextdoor requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, individual animal(s), an organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject of the article is important or significant: that is, why an article about it should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you can assert the importance of the subject, Speedy delete contest button.png. Clicking that button will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the article's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. You may freely add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

See the guidelines for specific types of articles: biographies, websites, bands, or companies.  Blanchardb -MeMyEarsMyMouth- timed 01:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Institute Benjamenta

I must admit I was nonplussed by your publication--just hours ago. Your article looks like it is of good quality, and at first glance appears to contain more of a research base than Courtney's. I'll discuss this development with her but it won't be until after Thanksgiving. I may encourage her to see if she could add anything to the article you posted so that she gets some experience on collaborating with other editors to create a better product. Thanks for drawing this to my attention. -Webster Newbold (talk) 03:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, hope that it works out well. She did have some information in her draft about awards and soundtrack and a couple other things that don't have in my draft. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Unthink

Orlady (talk) 18:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC) 08:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Nextdoor

Orlady (talk) 18:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC) 08:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Improvements to Prosperity theology

Hey. I think the theology section is good, but it needs to do a better job of actually describing what this looks like in practice. How exactly is giving money and other "seed" practiced and explained. How does belief in divine healing look through this perspective. What does suffering and lack in a Christian's life mean to prosperity theology adherents. So just more detail.

I have a book which I can use to help to boost the history section.

Governance and organization. Prosperity gospel ministries tend to be very hierarchical with the senior pastor having nearly unchecked authority over church affairs. This might need to be talked about. Ltwin (talk) 01:13, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughts, those are good observations. The authoritarian trend is particularly true, I think. I'll see if there are any good sources that I can dig up. Also, I just noticed, this article gets a lot of views! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
About images, perhaps images from TBN or something. Maybe the cover of a book advocating prosperity gospel.
I also think there needs to be more clarity on the difference between prosperity theology and Word of Faith/Positive Confession. Having grown up in a WOF influenced church, I know that they go hand in hand. From what I can tell from reading though, Word of Faith seems to be a particular form of prosperity gospel. One can advocate a prosperity theology without believing in full blown Word of Faith. Ltwin (talk) 06:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the additions to the article, they look pretty good. It is really coming along nicely. I agree about the distinctions, there are a variety of subsets in the movement. Moderates vs extremists as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:03, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I tried to get some more of that in the article, there is really a lot of coverage out there about this. I had a hard time finding sources that talked about the differences between moderate PT and hard-core WOF theology. I'll keep looking though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:30, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Copyedit of Agnes Monica

You're great! The prose reads much better. I don't have time to do a full review of it, but from a quick look I think it passes GAC1a and b now. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. I haven't joined the GOCE or anything, but I was looking over their page and thought I'd take a try on it. I don't know much at all about Indonesia so it was good to learn a bit. I had a ton of caffeine that day, and it was wearing off by the end of the copyedit, so I probably missed more then. I'll try to take another look if I have time in the next few days. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Whiteaker, Eugene, Oregon

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

RFA thank you

Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 20:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure, I hope you enjoy the use of the mop. It was really a shame though to see how contentious the debate got by the end, but you kept your calm admirably. It reminded me a lot of the negative campaigning used in American politics these days. I wish Wikipedia were above such things. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Camp Woodland Notability

Camp Woodland was built in 1969 and at its first summer camp had 487 campers. The camp also has a dynamic history. This is according to its about page at That's notable to me. --How may I serve you? Marshall Williams2 Talk Autographs Contribs 23:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your response. I'll open a deletion discussion to get some more input on its notability. Typically independent sources are required to have an article, perhaps someone who comes across the discussion can turn some up. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
I just removed the template from the page after expanding it some and now you nominated it for deletion. You weren't supposed to undo what I did with that template. Why? --How may I serve you? Marshall Williams2 Talk Autographs Contribs 00:29, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the comments man. I'm glad the article helped in a way.--WillC 22:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, hope the rest of the review goes well. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Palo Alto High School edits

Hello,there, what was wrong with this, why did you delete it? This is all verified and cited and important information about the school. Palygrad (talk) 20:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC) Palygrad

Palo Alto High School has a substantial academic achievement gap, whereby Black and Latino students do not enjoy a comparable level of academic success as their White and Asian counterparts. For example, in 2010, only 15% of Blacks and less than 40% of Latinos met the UC/CSU A-G requirements for admissions eligibility, compared with 80-90% of Whites and Asians. [7] Palo Alto High School, as part of PAUSD, has a disproportionate number of Blacks and Latinos in special education, and as part of PAUSD is subject to a state-mandated plan to reduce this disproportionality. [8] On April 20, 2011, Radu Toma, Palo Alto High School Mathematics Instructional Supervisor, and the Palo Alto High School Math Department, issued a letter to the PAUSD School Board and Superintendent personally signed by Radu Toma, Suzanne Antink, Kathy Bowers, Judy Choy, Arne Lim, Deanna Chute, Natalie Simison, Misha Stempel, Maria Rao, Charlotte Harris, Scott Friedland, Lisa Kim, Ambika Nangia and David Baker. The letter states in pertinent part: "However brain theory supports the reality that confounding student situations interfere with their ability to focus and succeed as they move through advanced mathematics curriculum in high school. We live in an affluent community. Most of our students are fortunate to come from families where education matters and parents have the means and will to support and guide their children in tandem with us, their teachers. Not all of them. . . . Many of these are VTP [desegregation transfer] students or under-represented minorities. . . . In the present system, they graduate proud of their accomplishments, to go on to community college or jobs for which PAUSD prepares them better than most districts. . . . The alternative, diluting the standards in our regular lane to basic benchmarks which might allow every student to pass Algebra II would end up hurting the district's reputation . . . . [segue to info re their plan to] "motivate slackers". [9]

My apologies, I saw the misplaced example file at the top of the page and reverted your edit to remove it. If you have cited text about the school you are free to add it in anytime. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 20:58, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Duke of Caxias

Hi, Mark. I saw that you made several edits to Luís Alves de Lima e Silva, Duke of Caxias. Do you plan to review its FA candidacy? Regards, --Lecen (talk) 17:30, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Lecen, I'm still pretty new to Wikipedia copyediting so feel free to revert my tweaks if you don't think they're an improvement. I wasn't planning on giving a Support or Oppose in the FAC since I'm not completely familiar with Featured article standards. I'm trying to get up to speed on it and hopefully I'll become more familiar quickly. I'll try to look over the rest of the article and leave a comment on the FAC though. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Don't worry, you're helping a lot. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 19:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I know very little about South American history, so this was educational for me if nothing else :) Mark Arsten (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
There is an article about Honório Carneiro Leão, Marquis of Paraná which I brought to FA level some time ago. I made quite a few imporvements since then and I wanted to be sure that its prose looks good. If you're interested, could you do some copy-edit on it? Since you read Caxias, you'll feel at home here. --Lecen (talk) 20:00, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Sure, I'd be willing to go over it when I get a chance. I'll let you know if I have any questions. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:34, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I'd also like to add my thanks, especially for simplifying some of the more awkward areas. Much appreciated. • Astynax talk 19:14, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
You're very welcome, with large articles like that it really does take a number of people looking at it to catch everything. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:19, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Are you done with the Marquis of Paraná's article? Is there anything else to be corrected? --Lecen (talk) 17:57, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
It looks great, thank you very much. Tell me someting, at the beginning of the next section, it is written: "Luís Alves would normally have begun the Fourth year at the Royal Military Academy in March 1822." Should I add "Fourth year classes"? I don't want anyone to believe that this Fourth year was his fourth year at the Academy, which wasn't. --Lecen (talk) 16:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I think that would be a good change to make. Good catch. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Not quite yet, I have not done below the First presidency of the Council of Ministers. Things are going well thus far. Hopefully I'll be able to finish soon. I've tried to be careful, but you should probably review my changes to make sure I didn't change the meaning of anything. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I think I'm finished. I'm not a professional-quality copyeditor (yet), so there's a chance that some particularly exacting editors could still find issues. My new year's resolution is to get some articles up to Featured Status, so this is good practice for me. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:37, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Mark, I made a few changes to the second and third paragraph of "Military education" section on Luís Alves de Lima e Silva, Duke of Caxias. Could you do me a favor and take a look and improve where necessary? Most important is this part: "He rose from alferes (equivalent to a second lieutenant today), on 12 October 1818, to lieutenant (nowadays first lieutenant) on 4 November 1820". The date "12 October 1818" is when he was promoted to alferes. Thanks a lot, --Lecen (talk) 13:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I took a stab at it. Hope that my changes were an improvement! Mark Arsten (talk) 16:38, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Mark, is this correct: "Physically, he was ordinary looking, with a round face, brown hair, brown eyes and average height."? --Lecen (talk) 14:04, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that basically looks ok to me. There are a couple other ways you could write it though ie: He had an ordinary appearance, with a... And so on. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I changed to "He had an ordinary appearance, with a..." as you suggested. Thanks a lot. --Lecen (talk) 19:13, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: "Luís Alves' indistinguishable features were compensated by his bearing; historian Thomas Whigham described him as someone who "learned the art of giving orders early in life. Immaculate in his dress, he was soft spoken, polite, and smoothly in control of himself. He seemed to radiate calm composure and authority." Is this ok? What about the ";"? Do you have a better suggestion? --Lecen (talk) 19:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure "indistinguishable" is the best word to put there. (not 100% sure) I think you're trying to say that his features were the same as people around him, but it almost sounds to me like "Luís Alves' indistinguishable features" means you can't distinguish one of his features from other features. Maybe say "unremarkable features" or perhaps "quotidian features". Mark Arsten (talk) 19:23, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
You're correct. Changed to unremarkable. Thanks a lot! --Lecen (talk) 19:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Alexis Bachelot

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Camp Woodland

Can you extend the date that Camp Woodland is going to be deleted? I need a lot of extra time. --How may I serve you? Marshall Williams2 Talk Autographs Contribs 21:54, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, there's nothing that I can do at this point since the AfD is under way. If you comment in the AfD and say you can provide evidence of notability soon an administrator may extend the discussion. Also, you could flag the article for rescue. Even if it is deleted, if you can find proof of notability after the fact you can always open up a WP:Deletion Review. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:50, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
For your outstanding copyediting of Luís Alves de Lima e Silva, Duke of Caxias and Honório Hermeto Carneiro Leão, Marquis of Paraná. You deserve this. Thank you very much. Lecen (talk) 09:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
  • You're welcome, a barnstar is a great way to start off a monday morning! Mark Arsten (talk) 15:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Murder of Joanna Yeates

Hi Mark. Thanks for copyediting the article, it's reading much better now. I also need to apologise to you as I didn't realise you were still working your way through it, and added something to the Tabak section which I'd overlooked, so I hope you don't mind that I've done that. I've tried to add it in the same style, so hopefully it should be ok. I'll put it up for GA in the next couple of days and see how it fares. Thanks once again. Paul MacDermott (talk) 23:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, glad to help--the prose wasn't bad to begin with. I think the article is in pretty good shape for a shot at Good Article Status. (Though I wasn't familiar with the case to begin with, so I wouldn't know about bias/comprehensiveness). I haven't officially joined the GOCE or anything, but I saw the backlog and figured I'd try to help out a bit where I could. (Since I was adding to it myself). I'm still a bit new to Wikipedia copyediting so I won't be offended if you disagree with any of my changes. There are a few sections I haven't gone through yet, but I should be able to finish up in a day or two. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi again and thanks once more for the copyedit. I agree with everything you've done, so the only change I've made is a small update as Saturday was the first anniversary of her death. I'll put it forward for GA today and hopefully it should be promoted after Christmas. Cheers Paul MacDermott (talk) 11:57, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome, I hope that the review goes smoothly. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


Wikipedia Rollback.svg

Hello, following a review of your contributions, I have enabled rollback on your account. Please take note of the following:

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC) Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Wow, that was quick service! Thanks, I'll get to work cleaning up vandalism shortly. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot

Bintang Beer by the Beach.jpg For the Copyedit
Have a local brew on me. Your copyedits to 1740 Batavia massacre have the article sparkling. I'm tempted to go to FAC today or tomorrow. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
  • You're very welcome, I think the article is in great shape. It is always a pleasure to try to copyedit well-written articles, I think this definitely deserves featured status. (This was a lot easier than the one about the singer I did a few weeks ago!) Mark Arsten (talk) 04:07, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Agreed completely; hopefully no dropped particles or articles. Well, fingers crossed! Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:10, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Yes, I'll keep an eye out for the nomination. I'm hoping to take an article there in 2012 (still on the research phase now), so I've been paying a bit more attention to FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:19, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Which one? I'll take a look. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the offer, I'll plan to take you up on that! I'm working on a sandbox draft right now and haven't moved it to mainspace yet. I'm still waiting for a couple books to arrive, actually. Half the fun is doing the research though :) Mark Arsten (talk) 04:31, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Science of Logic

You wrote me the following:

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Science of Logic, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. The reverted edit can be found here. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:55, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Would you kindly provide some grounds to back up your assertion that my edit to Science of Logic was "unconstructive"? Xianmw (talk) 00:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

My apologies, that was my mistake, I have restored your edit. I was using WP:IGLOO and I misfired, totally my mistake--I deserve to be hit with a trout for that. Good for you working on Hegel though, we need more contributors like you. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:16, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Charles Ederick

Please save my page "The Children and the Airline (2011 book)" I need this page in order to publish my novels. Even though I had not released it. You can trust me I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CharlesDavidEderick (talkcontribs) 02:03, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I know what it is like to have someone try to delete a page right after it is created, so I know what you are feeling to some extent. I thought your page was a hoax at first, but I'll take your word that the book is real. But you should review Wikipedia's inclusion guideline for books to see if there are any guideline based argumentation that you can make in the discussion. If you find that your book does not meet the guideline but likely will soon, you can ask to have the page moved into a userspace location. Also, I don't understand why you need to have a Wikipedia page in order to publish the book? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
This is for beating me to vandalism 3 times tonight. :) Keep up the good work and happy holidays! -- Luke (Talk) 02:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
  • LOL, thanks for the barnstar. I was just complaining about Cluebot beating me, so I guess I can identify :) Mark Arsten (talk) 02:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Team Barnstar Hires.png The Teamwork Barnstar
Thanks for all your great work helping to get the prosperity theology article to GA status. ItsZippy (talkcontributions) 12:26, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
  • My pleasure, I'm glad I stuck with this article and got help on it. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


I think my account has been hacked. I just logged on and i got like three messages. How do I changed my password? — Preceding unsigned comment added by S3XYman2043 (talkcontribs) 02:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm not sure--I've had the same password since I registered an account. Maybe ask on the WP:VP? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:44, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Alexis Bachelot/GA1

Will complete the review on Saturday. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:44, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Alright, not a problem, thanks for the note. I'm sure I can find something on Wikipedia to keep me busy until then :) Mark Arsten (talk) 16:46, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
On hold till 31st. --Redtigerxyz Talk 09:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Hey, thanks for the Christmas wishes and the detailed feedback on the article. I should be able to sort it all out in the next week. Happy holidays to you too. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Yep, Merry Christmas

Hello, Mark! I hope you're doing fine. I wish you a Merry Christmas and I really want to see you and I working together again next year. Kind regards, --Lecen (talk) 23:10, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'd like to wish you a Boas Festas, as well. I see you got another couple supports on the Duke of Caxias, good deal. Hope you get to bring a few more articles to FAC in the new year. Hopefully there will be a lot more edits to FAC and less to ANI/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests then. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I won't. I'm giving up the FAC. I asked for one thing: impartiality. That's all. I don't believe someone who has issues in the past with an editor should review the latter's FAC. That's simple and reasonable. And I'm the kind of person who believes that we should all treat ourselves with respect. It isn't because we are protected by anonymity (well, at least not me anymore) that we have the right to call someone an "arse", "idiot" or tell them to "fuck themselves" as that said person did before. I just want to finish Caxias' FAC and I'm done here for good. Anyway, I wish you a good Christmas celebration. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 11:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to hear that you are giving up on FAC, I wonder if the process is eventually headed for reform. Oh well, I guess time will tell. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:15, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Did you notice that we have always the same small group of editors taking part on the FAC process? There are no newer editors appearing interested on reviewing articles. I see the contrary: there has been quite a few good and experienced editors giving up. What to do? I don't know, but the delegates do not seem to have the will to propose any improvements for real. But forget about it. I just wanted to thank you and wish you a nice holiday. You're a great person and deserve it. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Why are you reversing my edits on the Taser article?

My statements are factual. Do you deny them? A taser is a torture device, and this is obvious to anyone who's seen any news article concerning their use in the last decade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Hi, thanks for asking. On Wikipedia, additions to articles must be written in a neutral tone and should be cited to a reliable source. Statements such as this appear to be biased to me and did not cite a source, that's why I reverted you. If you believe that this is accurate, please open a new section on Talk:Taser and attempt to discuss the matter with other editors. It will help a lot if you provide citations for your claims. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit Warring

How do you reason with a anon user that trolls you and keeps reverting your edits? The problem is that they have no incentive to discuss or register as a user to engage in discussion.MonkeyKingBar (talk) 04:00, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and how do you reason with a sockpuppet [1] who refuses to discuss edits, refuses to follow the rules, and has been banned several times[2][3][4][5][6]? (talk) 04:04, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Wow, my talk page is getting crowded. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I've raised the matter at WP:ANI, hopefully they can sort things out between you two. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:20, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Updating AUS information

Hello Mark, I'm editing the AUS site and got a message from you, of which the word 'vandalism' made me sit up. It's my first time to work on Wikipedia copy so please let me know if I have overstepped the mark in my editing. I'll start reading the guidelines now. --Frances Barton (talk) 05:19, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh sorry, that was actually my fault--I removed the vandalism template a couple minutes later. I restored your edits to the page, you did nothing wrong there. What happened was I saw that there was one empty section with Xs (you removed it here) and though that you were just adding a bunch of Xs to the article. Then when I saw that you had made more edits than that I restored your work. Please continue helping out around here, we need contributors like you. It is good to read the guidelines, but there are quite a few of them. I recommend Wikipedia:The End for some good introductory information. Thanks Mark Arsten (talk) 05:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Mark, shall do. --Frances Barton (talk) 06:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Rainbow Bridge, Texas

I live in Bridge City. I cannot recall the name of the lady (then a child) who was honored by having her suggestion for the name of the bridge made official. Somethings just don't have references, but ask anybody in Bridge City how the "Rainbow Bridge" got the name Rainbow Bridge, and they will tell you about the little girl, who was a friend of Ruth and Henry Darder. Since you feel it isn't interesting, how come the bridge was renamed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:09, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

My apologies for reverting you like that, your edit here was not vandalism--when I looked at it I thought you were saying that the name was given after it was put on the NRHP list. That being said, when you add information to Wikipedia you should always include a reference. See this page: WP:V for Wikipedia's policy on the issue. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:14, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I may be able to find the copy of the lcoal paper from the late 1990s which related the story. If so, I'll add it as a reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Thanks, and sorry again for the misunderstanding. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Rick Ross Issue

You undid my edit to Rick Ross. I had added a category in that edit. Also in that edit, inappropriate language had been replaced with symbols for some weird reason. I did not mean to replace the swear words. The next time when something similar to this happens, do not undo the revision, but edit the page and put the swear words back into the page. Because you undid the revision, the category that I added was removed. I later put the category back into the page. Jawadreventon (talk) 17:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see the category added at the bottom at the time just the bowdlerizing symbols, I would have re-added it had I seen it. Also, in your last edit to the page you re-censored the article with "@#!*%" over the profanity. Do you have some sort of text filter on your computer? Mark Arsten (talk) 17:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Zeami Motokiyo

The DYK project (nominate) 20:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion

Although I agree the Jediism article needs more material I do not feel I am yet suficiently qualified to provide such material. I am learning though. If you do find a jedi knight or master let me know. Perhaps they would accept a padawan. Circuitboardsushi (talk) 06:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I will tell you if I find one, but there aren't many around Wikipedia these days ;) Mark Arsten (talk) 06:01, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Excuse me, but why were my edits not constructive? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carolduncanshusband (talkcontribs) 02:43, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

My apologies, I should have explained that. I thought you were vandalizing the page, but I suppose you might have been honestly trying to improve the page. If you think the pages should be changed, please gain consensus on the article's talk page first. Also, you might want to read Wikipedia:Fringe theories. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but reading Wikipedia policies on Fringe theories will not help anything. The Catholic Church in Rome had Galileo arrested because he said the earth revolved around the sun. Now you're accusing us of vandalism and making fringe theories because you don't agree with these well documented theories. What we're doing is NOT vandalism, and we not propounding FRINGE theories. Read up on it, and stop destroying the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carolduncanscousin (talkcontribs) 03:06, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, unlike the Catholic Church in Rome, Wikipedia works via consensus, so please discuss the matter with other interested editors rather than just changing pages. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:09, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

There is no consensus about the authorship question, so the article should state that, and alternative theories should be allowed to be mentioned in the article. We can't broach this issue because the discussion page has been blocked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobevanssausage (talkcontribs) 03:40, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the talk page for Macbeth is not locked at the moment. Also, please stick to one user account. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:42, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


The talk page or discussion section for Hamlet has been blocked or locked. Therefore, it is impossible to discuss it there. There is NO RELIABLE source for "Ur-Hamlet". There is no source, no evidence. It is just a theory. So why is this undocumented, unsourced, uncorroborated claim allowed on Hamlet when the Oxfordian theory, for which we have so much evidence is wiped out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobevanssausage (talkcontribs) 03:38, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

The talk page is only locked until January 4th, so I guess you will have to wait until then. If you keep adding that to the article it will be locked, as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:40, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

GW Hensley copyedit

It looks like an interesting article. I will try to go through it over the next 3–4 days and look for anything obvious that might hinder its promotion. • Astynax talk 06:15, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

That would be great, thanks a lot. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:35, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I finished a copyedit, working mainly on clarity. There is a hidden note in the Legacy section that needs to be cleared up before proceding to a GA. I also requested addition of a photo on the talk page header (I think this will be mentioned in any review). I couldn't find an image in a quick search of Wikimedia Commons, but will look again later. • Astynax talk 10:55, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Could you take a look?

Well, I did a complete rewrite of my favourite Indonesian singer. Could you take a look and touch up the grammar? When I'm writing while translating sources I mess up at times, especially when the construction is completely different. How's your project coming? Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try to go over the article later this week, translating sounds tough (I'm monolingual so it's all a mystery to me). It looks like the Batvia Massacre FAC is going ok thus far, I see that things have been pretty slow at FAC lately. I had been planning on working on Anti-Corn Law League this winter (that was the project that I mentioned earlier) and trying to go to FAC with it, but it looks like it would be a larger and less interesting project than I had planned, so I might put that on the back burner. I have a draft in a sandbox now, but it's still in rough shape. I'm thinking I might try to take Alexis Bachelot to FAC, it's kinda a short one, but it might give me a feel for the process. Oh well, I'll try to start on your article soon, it looks interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:06, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • He had quite an interesting career, even if he never made it international (I don't even think he tried, it wasn't mentioned in his biography). Thanks a lot. Regarding FA, somewhat narrow topics can be quite short. MissingNo., for example, is three times shorter than the Chrisye article. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:36, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah yes, I recall MissingNo. now. It was one of the rare occasions where I read the Today's Featured Article in its entirety. Some the Hurricane Featured Articles are quite short too, well, thanks for the encouragement! I told myself that I'd stay up to learn who won the Iowa Caucus tonight, but it looks like I got more than I bargained for. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Long count? Obama will be running for the Democrats, right? (Out of touch with American [and Canadian] politics here). Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:57, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, basically :) Tonight is the kick-off of the Republican primary race to see who gets to challenge Obama in November. Mitt Romney is the most likely candidate, but a lot of the core Republican voters aren't sure about him so there is a chance someone could surprise him. They have a few really obscure states vote first in the primary, and tonight is Iowa. I just checked and they had a 1 vote difference between Romney and Rick Santorum, out of 100,000 votes or so. I've never seen anything like that before. The story is that Romney is more of a business executive type and Santorum is known for his extremely conservative (even for the U.S.) stance on social issues. So it's interesting to me to see whether the economics or social issues will be more important in the Republican race. But I think I will go to bed now and figure it all out tomorrow. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:41, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah yes... and the New Hampshire primaries are after the Republican candidate has been chosen, right? I must admit, I've read quite a bit about the process but some of the finer aspects still escape me. Good night. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:05, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Well actually, the New Hampshire primaries (which are next week) are still part of choosing the primary candidate. They have primaries in different states for 5 months or so. I honestly don't know why they do it that way. Oh well, I already know who I am going to vote for! Mark Arsten (talk) 16:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, right. When I read The Brethren it was in there, but I must have misremembered. Oh well. It appears Romney won Iowa. Regarding the 5 month voting period... perhaps it was initially meant to allow candidates time to travel to different states? Before the advent of flight it must have been a pain to campaign. Then again, I don't even know if they did campaign as vigorously. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
BTW, thanks for taking a look at the article. I've fixed both issues you mentioned on the talk page. Hope it was an interesting read! Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • That might not be a bad guess, actually. After all, we vote on Tuesdays for outdated reasons, as well. Well, I started on the copyediting today, hopefully I'll be able to finish it up tomorrow or Friday. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks a lot. Hope it was an interesting read! I'll be dropping by the offices of Kompas later to copy some articles from the 70s and 80s. Probably not readable in full, but it could help establish release dates (which, although this article is probably the most complete English-language work on him available, would be expected at FAC). It would also help me finish this, which isn't ready for article space yet. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:07, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

() Sounds good, that's a lot of research! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

  • Indeed it will be. And pricey, too; the research at Kompas for May 1998 riots of Indonesia cost about $60, and I didn't even use 70% of the articles I found (for comparison, our grocery bill here is about $120 a month). Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, I wish there were someway to be reimbursed for research costs by the WMF if an article got to Good or Featured Status or something. I think that would do a lot to encourage top quality articles. I was just thinking the other day how I had access to a high-quality research library back in my student days, but really didn't appreciate it much. Now I would be euphoric to have that kind of access. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Even just full access to jstor alone would give us a big boost. Oh well, I've actually made a net profit with my work here (not counting time spent editing, of course); I did some training for WikiMedia Indonesia a while back, and some translation work. Just wish I could have met Nia Dinata and Ucu Agustin while they were working with the foundation. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:35, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Really, that's pretty cool, glad to hear you made the money back. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:38, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Alright, well hope the race isn't as close as last time. Thanks a lot for looking into Chrisye's article for me! Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, it was expensive as heck again. Argh, a month worth of groceries. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:56, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
But resulted in an extra 7000 characters of information. Sweet! Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:33, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, good deal! I guess that's money well spent :) Mark Arsten (talk) 15:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Not bad indeed. Alright, cheers! Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Your Very Own

Agnes at AMI 2004.jpg Anugerah Musik Indonesia
Thanks for all your copy edits of Indonesian artists (Agnes Monica and Chrisye so far). Also, thanks for the good humour which you've shown.

BTW, in case you didn't look the user name is part Christopher Columbus, part Crisco, and part overeating Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

  • Hey, thanks for the barnstar. DOH, on the username thing. I recall now I did read that before, I think the high volumes of caffeine could be affecting my memory now :) I listened to both of them on YouTube, and that was the first time I've ever heard Indonesian music! A couple weeks back I helped a friend on a grad school paper about Asian pop music, so this has been interesting to me. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
  • If you're looking it up on YouTube, for Chrisye I'd suggest "Andai Aku Bisa" ("If I Could") and "Untukku" ("For Me"); if you can find it, "Malam Pertama" ("Wedding Night") is pretty good. If you prefer harder stuff, you can't go wrong with "Cinta yang Lain" ("Another Love") featuring Ungu, "Menunggumu" featuring Peterpan, and "Jika Surga dan Neraka Tak Pernah Ada" ("If Heaven and Hell Never Existed") with Ahmad Dhani. All three have music videos, although the video for "Cinta yang Lain" looks like it was done after Chrisye went through chemo. Interesting choice of a paper topic... shame pop culture studies aren't big here yet. Makes finding references pretty difficult. The Shirelles was downright simple compared to the album articles I've written. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:23, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I just discovered something with a nice riff; a little harder than Agnes or Chrisye. Check out the sample for "Kehidupan" by God Bless. I see why they've had a nearly 40-year career. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Interesting, I'm loading YouTube now and will give it a listen. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for George Went Hensley

The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Good news

Luís Alves de Lima e Silva, Duke of Caxias is now a FA. Thanks, Mark. You did a great job there. I'm in debt. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear it, that sure was a long nomination wait! Mark Arsten (talk) 22:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Elias Abraham Rosenberg

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

GAN Elias Abraham Rosenberg


I am reviewing your nomination, and have left some comments at Talk:Elias Abraham Rosenberg/GA1 and have place it on hold for seven days while you address them. Please don't hesitate to contact me with questions or feedback. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 19:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, I should be able to work the article this week. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:54, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Article has been passed as a GA. Congratulations! Very interesting article with an insight into history that I never would have known about. Thanks for writing it! MathewTownsend (talk) 16:02, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the thorough review, I'm glad to have gotten it to Good Article status, but what I like the most is that we were able to improve the article further with your feedback. 17:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahalya FAC

Thanks for your edits and comments. Please take a look. I have replied to them. --Redtigerxyz Talk 17:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, I'll try to look over it again soon. This was a genuinely interesting article to read since I'm very unfamiliar with the subject. A relative of mine is in India for a couple weeks, so this was topical for that reason, as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your constructive edits and Support. I have to address one of your concerns. Will inform you to take a look after that. Will address it this weekend. --Redtigerxyz Talk 18:37, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Alright, will try to remember to check back, good luck with the sourcing--that is quite tricky. It's actually kind of funny, my father is in India this week, so I was going back and forth between reading his updates and reading this article, so it was quite topical. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Added some info about Mahamoha. Please take a look. Thanks --Redtigerxyz Talk 14:50, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Alright, the NFL playoffs will be taking up a lot of my time this weekend, but I'll try to make time to check it out :) Mark Arsten (talk) 16:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Hi. Thanks for supporting Ahalya at FAC, which was closed as failed, but the process of improvement continues. If you would like to add any more suggestions for improvement, please do so at Wikipedia:Peer review/Ahalya/archive2. Thanks. --Redtigerxyz Talk 17:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to see that one fail. Hope you try again soon though, I'll take another look, as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Cracker Barrel peer review

Hi Mark, thanks much for the very thorough review. I've looked through your notes and the majority look straightforward, though I will have a few questions on some points you raise. I've made a number of direct changes already, will make more in the next day or so, then I'll post those questions in the peer review and look forward to your feedback. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 03:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, glad to help. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

George Went Hensley

Passed GA. Congratulations! Fascinating article in many ways. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 17:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I'm glad that it is now a Good article, but more than that, I'm glad that it was improved during the review. Anyone can pass a good article, but few reviewers are as willing as you are to put in time and effort to improve pages under review. I really appreciate that. Hope your weekend goes well, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Talk:The Pointy End/GA1

Apologies for the delay, but I've finally gotten around to the feedback you gave, and have addressed all of it. I will be happy to follow up with additional fixes as needed. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 21:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem, glad to hear that you found time to get to it. I'll try to take a look at the article tomorrow or Monday and reply on about the review. Mark Arsten (talk) 07:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Prosperity theology review: Another casualty of "civility" hounding of MF

Hi Mark!

I apologize but increased personal and professional obligations make it unlikely that I can do a GA review.

Wikipedians seem to be more interested in innovative stagings of The Crucible and Good Night and Good Luck than in writing, unfortunately, and an increased proportion of my decreased WP- time has been going to defending writers against "civility" fanaticism, which usually follows an opposition to a child administrator at RfA.

Again I'm sorry that I cannot review the article anytime soon.

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:24, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, I saw the discussion at Ani the other day so I figured that you would be occupied for the near future. Well, it is good to have you back here, even if you are forced to spend your time defending others. I've been following the Civility Enforcement case without weighing in, I've begun to doubt that anything useful will come of it. In any case, I appreciated hearing your take on it. Hope your weekend goes well, Mark Arsten (talk) 07:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Elias Abraham Rosenberg

Mark, re your nomination of the above for peer review, the rules limit editors to one nomination per day, and you had already made a nomination a few minutes before Elias. As you were no doubt unaware of the rule I won't ask you to remove it, but please bear in mind that PR is very backlogged at the moment and progress through the system is likely to be slow. Brianboulton (talk) 00:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I was not aware of that rule--I had recalled the 4 open at a time rule and figured I was under that. I'll try to review some other nominations to make up for it! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

TAS peer review

I might have a hard time figuring out which one so I am wondering which information in the cast section and which quotations are the least relevant to have and are best to remove the article. :) Jhenderson 777 19:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Good questions, I replied at the peer review. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:30, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the reply. I also replied on a few more of the reviews as well. :) Jhenderson 777 22:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

VHEMT Article – Request for Collaboration and Consensus


Hello Mark,

Thank you for the notification about your “lengthy rewrite” (not expansion) of the entire VHEMT article. I have reverted your extensive “rewrite” (no consensus – WP:CON of fellow Editors) because there are three primary Editors (Nuujinn / Mitch Ames / Skyeking) who oversee said article and they have contributed significantly (edited collaboratively) to its development for 21-months.

“Do not confuse stewardship with ownership. Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, but not all edits bring improvement. In many cases, a core group of editors will have worked to build the article up to its present state, and will revert unconstructive edits in order to preserve the quality of the encyclopedia.” (WP:OAS)

Regarding the VHEMT article, we welcome you as a participating Editor and look forward to collaboratively editing with you.

Interestingly, you not request copy-editing participation from Mitch Ames or myself (quote M. Arsten as addressed to only Nuujinn and bobrayner) “I’d particularly be grateful if you could help with copy-editing the article.”

For myself, I am diametrically opposed to Mark Arsten’s extensive and lengthy (unnecessary phraseology and original research WP:OR) rewrite of said article (original version December 10, 2011). My proposal is that we (obviously inclusive of Mark Arsten) proceed from the original version and “slowly” (edit collaboratively) consider (discuss) “line-by-line” any-and-all “suggested” edits (WP:CON).

For myself, I am curious to learn about Mark Arsten’s “course of reasoning” (arguments) that lead him to a conclusion that an entire rewrite of the VHEMT article would somehow improve Wikipedia. My finding is that such a rewrite not improve Wikipedia, and at this time, I seriously question M. Arsten’s conclusion(s).

Therefore, my request to Mark Arsten is that he open a discussion topic at said article’s Talk Page and provide his fellow Editors an explanation about his “course of reasoning” (arguments).

Wiki Regards,
Skyeking — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyeking (talkcontribs) 00:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe that my new version was 100% cited to quality reliable sources and included all of the relevant sourced information found in the previous version, I'm curious which parts of the new version bother you? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Your belief is erroneous, and I'm curious which of the "original" version edits bother you?Skyeking (talk) 05:13, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Will reply on the article's talk page. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Cracker Barrel redux

Hi again. Took me a few days to get back to the peer review, but I've spent several hours with it today, and I think I've addressed all of your major concerns. I have implemented changes where I thought it made sense, and offered a comment in response where I believed further discussion was necessary. In three instances I'm afraid I have relatively lengthy replies, and they are on the sensitive subjects of "Policy towards sexual orientation", "Campaign donations" and (perhaps less controversial) "Community involvement". As you may recall, the peer review was initiated in part because some editors felt that I had made the article too positive; well, it is my view that these editors have introduced some new problems, both in perspective and in chronology. I'll ping Silver about it, and suggest bringing some of those editors back to the table as well. As far as I'm concerned, you've been fair, so if you disagree with my points I'll take your advice. Thanks, WWB Too (talk) 21:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the note. I'll try to check it out soon, but probably won't get to it until after the strike. Regards, Mark Arsten (talk) 21:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
No worries. It can certainly wait until after. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, I just went ahead and weighed in--I wasn't too sure on a couple things. I pinged the last 6 or so editors who edited the article to see if any of them are interested too. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I have seen it, and another comment from Collect as well. As you'd said before, I likely won't have a chance to follow up before the strike, but I will after. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 01:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Additonal sources for Rosenberg

See the article's talk page. Also, I've made a request for an article behind a paywall here. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 06:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, excellent work. Thanks a lot for finding those! Mark Arsten (talk) 06:41, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Mark Arsten. You have new messages at Talk:Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Request your answer.
Question is at SECTION: Article Image - Picture of Earth with VHEMT logo
Skyeking (talk) 10:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

George W. Romney FAC

Hi, you asked before about plans to put Mitt Romney up at FAC, but I can say that Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/George W. Romney/archive2 is up now, in case you want to take a look. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:32, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, looks interesting. I'll try to find time to look over it and give you some feedback soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Re:A Couple Things

Thanks for the FAC review again! I've dropped by the MoO2 page, and given them some pointers - with Malleus on the writing team, the actual article should be well-written. I also swung by your VHEMT GA review, as Skyeking's odd talking style caught my eye as I was scrolling down your talk page- sorry for butting in there if I'm not wanted. --PresN 19:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thanks a lot for doing both of those, I appreciate it a lot. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Korean article

You should try posting it in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea since I'm not sure who to point you to. I'm sure somebody within the WikiProject can help you. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 22:34, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the advice, will do! Mark Arsten (talk) 23:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary


thanks for your helpful peer review. Unfortunately it failed the GAN, mostly because of bad prose. Could you take a second look and if necessary improve the prose? Thanks.--♫GoP♫TCN 19:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that it failed due to the prose, that seemed to be a very solid article. I'll try to go through and find issues, maybe we can find another couple copyeditors too. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Cracker Barrel responses

Hi there, Mark. I've just responded to your questions at Peer review about nutrition and stockholders, along with two short proposed additions based on them. Let me know your take when you have a moment. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 15:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, will reply there. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Excellent, saw your notes. I'll be offline most of today, but I'll update the draft at my next opportunity. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 17:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

George Went Hensley advancement

When you close the peer review, there will still be some adjustments before going to the FA process. Would you object to the references being put into a more consistent format? • Astynax talk 20:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem at all, make any of the changes you see fit. I'm more than happy for the help. I've only looked at the sources online thus far, so I ordered a book just so I have a hard copy with me for the FAC process. I should have it next week, so there may be some relatively minor additions then. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I finally got around to making changes to the footnotes. They don't often object to the format used (though they do want to follow MOS on the headers for the notes/reference sections). The sfn template is more to save a headache once the process starts and once it gets listed on the front page, since editors unfamiliar with articles tend to break named refs. They might object to using the "Quote box" template in the [Theology section]. I've had a reviewer flag that before, insisting that anything other than the blockquote template is verboten per MOS:QUOTE. I think the quote box looks great as it is (especially as we don't have many images with which to work), and you may want to leave it as-is. I personally do not agree that MOS:QUOTE forbids using other quotation templates, and it might not be raised as an issue this time. I have looked around other references, and I believe the article to be reasonably complete and well-written. I'm glad that you know what to expect from the process, and it is OK if you want to list me as co-nom. • Astynax talk 20:10, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Interesting. Well, I'll keep the quotebox in for now, and if anyone objects I'll be ready with the preferred template. I'll let you know when I get to nominating it, this should be interesting (FAC always is!) Mark Arsten (talk) 20:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for alerting me, I've added the candidacy to my watchlist. Hopefully it won't be too rough sailing. • Astynax talk 02:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
I hope not! Mark Arsten (talk) 02:35, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I saw the comment regarding the lead this morning, but you had it fixed only minutes before I arrived. I'll do a read-through when I get a chance this evening. Seems to be a lot of copy editing going on right now, and I think it best to let it settle down before taking a look. If things follow the usual course, we probably won't get the bulk of comments until late this week. • Astynax talk 22:07, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Yes, that is smart thinking, no need to be causing edit conflicts all over the place if we don't need to. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Just a note about the CoG (Cleveland, TN) bit: implementing reviewers' comments and suggestions do not always make for a better article. There have been instances where comments have had the opposite effect, and subsequent reviewers insisted that changes made to accomodate one reviewer's preferences be changed yet again, producing a mishmash of styles or worse (an article that no longer clearly reflected the sources). "Brilliant prose" is in the eye of a beholder. Even veteran reviewers (and this isn't a complaint about Wehwalt or anyone in particular) are not dispensers of unfailingly good advice, and it is OK to politely defend the statements in the article. Perhaps it is unnecessary for me to make the point, as I'm not sure how many times you've gone through FAC. I have no problem with those changes you've made that seem to you to be improvements—just concerned that you not knock yourself out with major reconstructions when the article still has a week to go before it gets toward decision time. • Astynax talk 18:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, that is a good point. I'm pretty unfamiliar with this whole process so I'm still getting the hang of things. I'll try to keep that in mind though! Mark Arsten (talk) 19:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I think waiting the 2 weeks and renominating would be the way to go. There were some useful initial comments, but none of the reviewers followed up. After renominating, it wouldn't hurt to post a neutral (so as not to be accused of WP:CANVAS) announcement on the Religion and Christianity projects to alert reviewers who might be more inclined to look at the FAC. • Astynax talk 17:25, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I tend to agree with you there. A number of FAC regulars were otherwise occupied during the three weeks we had it open, (what with the Arbcom case and flu season etc.) so I think we would have gotten more support at a different time. Also, it was good to see that we didn't get any Oppose comments. Looks to me like this is just a temporary setback! Mark Arsten (talk) 22:56, 26 February 2012 (UTC)


Don't mind the edit to my user page at all! I wrote on the GA Review page that this was the first of my articles that I've nominated. I appreciate your comments and edits. Thanks so much!  :) Wikipelli Talk 22:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear that it was a good experience. Different GA reviewers have varying levels of exactingness they require, but I encourage you to take more articles there. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:35, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Copyeditor Barnstar Hires.png The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For your great copyedit on Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary! :) ♫GoP♫TCN 12:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, glad to help. In my experience thus far, a large part of creating high-quality articles is tracking down other people to help you out on it. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Ontological argument

Hi Mark, I was wondering if I could ask you a favour. I've been steadily improving and expanding the article on the ontological argument over the past few months. It could probably do with a copyedit from an editor who isn't me (a pair of fresh eyes) - would you be able to take a look at it please? Thank you. ItsZippy (talkcontributions) 21:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure, sounds interesting. I'll try to find time to swing over and take a look. The Prosperity theology FAC seems to be going well, better than I had expected, actually. Hope we don't hit any unexpected bumps in the road! Mark Arsten (talk) 21:36, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much - I really appreciate it. And yes, the FAC looks on track to do well. ItsZippy (talkcontributions) 21:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

RFC/U on Skyeking

As you know, I haven't been very involved in the VHEMT article, but what I've seen is more than enough to get Skyeking restricted from editing the article and possibly the talkpage. Would you want to put together an RFC/U? –Roscelese (talkcontribs) 00:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi Roscelese, thanks for your attention and help on this. You know, I was thinking a bit today about how to handle this situation. I think an RFC/U is probably the best idea here. I've come to the conclusion that talking to him/having others talk to him is not going to accomplish anything. I haven't done anything quite like this before, it sounds complicated. I'm sure that I can learn though. So yes, I would like to put together an RFC/U. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
I disagree. While I find Skyeking's discussion style difficult (to put it mildly), and I disagree with much of what he says, I believe that he is currently trying to do the right thing. Also, I doubt that we meet the requirements for an RFC/U yet.
I think a better plan for all of us would be a bit more specific on the talk page about what changes we propose and why, or what changes we made and why, and to make multiple smaller edits (if for no other reason than ease of reference to specific changes) rather than few larger edits. And - where possible - keep the discussions about different topics (lead is to long, use of the word "gradual", "millions of volunteers" etc) separate on the talk page. (I'm trying to do this [7][8], but I need others to follow suit.) This makes them easier to follow. I know sometimes they overlap, and sometimes we expend a lot of effort on the use of one word, but if we can break the disputes down in to smaller, more specific problems we might have a better chance of resolving them. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Whether we have met the technical requirements for an Rfc or not is beyond my expertise, so I'll defer to others on that point. Perhaps another noticeboard might be advisable, as well. Also, Mitch, I think you have done a fine job working on this article thus far, and I admire your patience and optimism. However, I doubt that your proposed approach will be successful. I do support escalating off of the talk page (perhaps to an Rfc) because it seems to me that Skyeking is a tendentious editor and will not change his (I assume "his") behavior, no matter how many people try to explain it to him. His only purpose for being on the project seems to be to ensure that the page on VHEMT conforms to his personal view of the group, regardless of Wikipedia policies. I'll defer to Bobrayner and Roscelese on what a good next step would be though, as I am new to conflict resolution here. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:48, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
I disagree, Mitch, that the behavior has improved. What I see as the problem with this user is that he's still arguing and editing for a system where he is the gatekeeper of all changes to the article - where other editors have to run their "editing plans" by him for his approval and where he reverts with a claim of "no consensus" without ever articulating the problems with the change, simply because he wasn't the one who made it. There's also an ongoing problem with original research. –Roscelese (talkcontribs) 04:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps you have a point. I'm not currently prepared to initiate an RFC/U, but I would almost certainly express an opinion in such an RFC - whether as "certifying", "endorsing", or "outside view" would depend on the details of the "statement of dispute" and "desired outcome". Mitch Ames (talk) 08:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Also, given that Mark and I have both recently pointed out to Skyeking that he can't/shouldn't ask people to stay out of a discussion on the Talk page, it would be somewhat hypocritical to suggest restricting Skyeking's editing the talk page. (Skyeking's style is odd and difficult, but for the most part - on the article talk page at least - I don't think it violates WP:CIVIL.) Mitch Ames (talk) 03:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, something that drastic would have to be a community decision; it's not something I'm intent to push for right away. Topic bans are sometimes given out though. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:00, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I think Mitch Ames has a good point - in that Skyeking is trying to get along better with other people, compared to how it was before - but, alas, that's not sufficient. We still have the, err, bizarre text and the "gatekeeper" stance, and between them they consume editors' time & goodwill. bobrayner (talk) 08:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Personally, I only got involved after mediating a medcab case - the way it progressed was a surprise to me but is unlikely to be a surprise to people familiar with the VHEMT article. A former mediator is probably not the best person to instigate sanctions against one of the editors, but if somebody else opens an RfC/U or whatever, and if sanctions would allow other people to get on with their work and improve articles, I would add a supporting voice... bobrayner (talk) 13:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks for weighing in. Wow, that was quite the interesting post when he first started. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Rosenberg detail

If you aren't already aware of it, Temple Emanu-El (Honolulu, Hawaii) has some detail you might be able to use, with sources you may not have. Also I have a source from Proquest (subscription only) which you might find helpful. If you shoot me an email I'll send it as an attachment. Finally, see the reply at WP:RX. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for all your work on that, I'm impressed with how much has turned up. I'm glad I asked you for help on this. I'll shoot you an e-mail about the article soon. I found a book by David Max Eichhorn that mentions Rosenberg, I should be able to get my hands on it early next week. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:59, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

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Fixed, now go bug someone else. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Mark, you do realize you're talking to a robot? (It will leave this identical message for you 1,000 times if you transgress in the same way unless you follow the opt-out instructions.)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:56, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I figured this was my one chance to yell at someone for posting on my talk page without being hauled to WQA or something :) BTW, sent you an e-mail. Also, I got my hands on a copy of this book today, it has a couple pages about Rosenberg written by a Rabbi from Hawaii, looks like it will be really helpful. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
That will only last until they can pass a Turing test and then we'll have WP:WQAI (yes, I realize how corny that is). Checking my email now.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
LOL, that would be something. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

George Romney comments

I've already gotten derailed more than I expected on this FAC, but I think I've finally addressed all of your very useful comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/George W. Romney/archive2. And thanks for the support in the mass formatting changes thing. Dealing with a large, intertwined series of changes, some helpful some not, is one of the hardest things to do in WP ... Wasted Time R (talk) 05:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice, I've added my support. That was some really detailed business on those references, I'm impressed that you could keep it all straight. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)


A notification that the Templates for Discussion discussion (oy, repetition) has been taken to a deletion review discussion. The Article Rescue Squadron was notified, and as notifications to previous involved parties isn't normal practise, I and a few ARS members agreed that, in the interests of transparency and fairness, we should let everyone know...hence this talkpage message ;).

If anyone has an issue with me sending these out, do drop me a note on my talkpage. Regards, Ironholds (talk) 10:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

LOL, thanks. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

More Rosenberg notes

I found this. Using the date of death provided on his headstone, I easily found a book source and have added in the information, as well as some additional detail from the source about his death bed conduct. However, a search for the birth date of November 1810 from the headstone turns up nothing. Using the gravestone directly I'm not sure about, though my gut tells me dates of birth inscribed on gravestones, given the way they are provided by people truly in the know, are generally highly accurate. I considered added something like:

Joseph Adler writes in The Hawaiian Journal of History that he was born c. 1809. However, Rosenberg's gravestone lists his date of birth as "November 1810."(cite)

with the citation being to the gravestone photograph itself, i.e. the headstone as the reliable source, and not Find-A-Grave, which only hosts the photograph. In that regard, see Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites. I leave it up to you to use or not use as you see fit. One other thing on this: that site also reveals that he was not buried in San Francisco. The Hills of Eternity Memorial Park (which an independent search confirms is the cemetery of Congregation Sherith Israel) is in Como, CA, which I believe is part of the San Francisco Peninsula but is not in San Francisco proper. On another matter, you say the local nicknamed him Rosy and Holy Moses". I came across this source which provides that the Holy Moses appellation was leveled against him as a jeer by newspapers; not a endearing nickname given him by locals.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 07:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey, good job fact checking there. The Joys of Jewish Folklore source you linked to is a previous edition of Jewish folklore in America (which I guess is abridged, somewhat, I guess). I check JFIA again, and it does have the same birth year and death date/dying words, so that will be easy to fix. I think what happened with the Adler DOB was he listed Rosenberg's age at death and I just subtracted and put "c." to cover myself. JFIA states that "Holy Moses" was derisive, as well. The Adler source and the Honolulu magazine source just mention that was a term used to describe him, so I will change that. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 16:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I took a stab at fixing things, hope this works. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I've found some sources here. Goodvac (talk) 08:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know that these have anything new or useful but see:
--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Wow, thanks guys those do look good. I'm really surprised how many sources we've ended up finding about this guy. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, BTW, I meant to ask, what do you think of the idea of nominating the picture of the four people watching Hadji Ali spit the water out for Featured Picture? It looks like a pretty good picture and it would be awesome to have it as Picture of the Day sometime. I don't really know anything about the whole Featured Picture standards, "compression artifacts" etc., they may as well use divination for all I know. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I have little doubt my cluelessness as to featured pictures could give your depths of ignorance a run for its money. I just looked at the criteria and also the picture and when you view it up close it has a lot of what looks like "noise". Anyway, I don't especially find the photograph compelling. On the other hand, I think the poster is spectacular. However, given how little I know to even begin to access if either actually meet the criteria, a nomination might make me the equivalent in the image sphere of those poor souls who nominate a completely unsourced, misspelled, incoherent near stub for FAC.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
LOL, I guess we should stick with what we know! Mark Arsten (talk) 19:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Cracker Barrel Peer Review

Since there haven't been any new people entering into the peer review, do you have any final comments to make there? If not, i'm thinking of having the peer review be closed and the article submitted for GA (once i'm done with reference formatting today or tomorrow). SilverserenC 22:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, I think everything I had mentioned has been taken care of. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks for all your help. You've helped us improve that draft significantly. Can we expect you to be involved in the peer review specifically for FA that we'll be doing after it gets GA? Or do you think you've used up all of your suggestions? :P SilverserenC 22:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, I've used up all my Cracker Barrel time for now, I could probably come up with a few things though after taking some off though :) Mark Arsten (talk) 22:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I'll make sure to let you know then. SilverserenC 22:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


Might I ask why you added this comment? My interactions with Rlvese were all quite positive. Personally, I think the November 2010 issue was a great overreaction on the community's part. I see absolutely no connection between the above user (HtDLS) and Rlvese. So I am a bit curious why you asked that question in the discussion. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 05:21, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, at the time it seemed funny to me that there was one thread about someone retiring again and then someone starts a thread an hour later claiming to be a clean start account. I didn't honestly think that the satanist and Rlvese were the same person. I'm not familiar at all with Rlvese, for good or bad, that was all before my time. I guess in retrospect that was a dumb comment to make, sorry. I'd redact it but I think the thread has been closed. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Not a problem. Thanks for the explanation. Best wishes, Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 04:29, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


Thanks! I was a bit discouraged after the first failed nom, but I felt like the second one just failed because everyone was on vacation so it was just more like refreshing the nom page. Thanks for taking the time to review it so closely! --PresN 00:30, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


Just had time to look over the lead today. I thought it pretty long for such a person, and I tweaked and trimmed it a bit. I'll try to do more shortly. All the best, John Foxe (talk) 22:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, glad you found time. I'll try to clarify the details you mentioned on the talk page. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:41, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you can help


I've been reviewing Cracker Barrel Old Country Store and only have two remaining concerns Talk:Cracker Barrel Old Country Store/GA1 - especially the links to homosexuality vs LGBT rights by country or territory, and what is "OBIE Hall of Fame Award"? Perhaps you can clear this up. Thanks, MathewTownsend (talk) 22:00, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Alright, will check it out, thanks for the note. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Back from the dead

Hello, Mark. Good to see you again. I was ready to leave this place for good, but Alarbus insisted so much that it would be rude to not come back. I saw your message on my talk page. Thanks for that. Always good to see that there are a few nice people left around. Kind regards, --Lecen (talk) 02:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Lecen, glad to see you back. It's always a shame to see productive contributors leave the project. I realize that after years of contributing quality content things can get quite frustrating here. I see that in many people who are involved at FAC these days. I hope that you find a stress-free way to contribute though, I'll see you around! Mark Arsten (talk) 14:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for your trouble

Handshake icon.svg The Cooperation Barnstar
Thanks for your assistance to WikiProject Cooperation, and efforts to help improve Cracker Barrel Old Country Store!

Thanks again for all your help. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 19:28, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure, glad to help. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:45, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi there. Just a quick note to say thank you for the copyedit you did for the ontological argument a few days ago - I wanted you to know that I appreciated it. ItsZippy (talkcontributions) 21:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. It was interesting to read all that, it looks very well researched. I bet it was a tough article to work on, you did a good job. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Another copyedit request

Hi Mark, how are you? I just wrote another fairly big article and I was wondering if you could give it a look-over. It's on an Indonesian literary magazine that was active from 1933 to 1942. If you can help a bit, please take a look at Poedjangga Baroe. Thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Things are going well, I guess. I'm navigating FAC myself right now, that really is a tricky corner of the project! Your article does sound interesting, I've got a lot on my wiki-plate at the moment, but I should be able to find some time to give it a good once-over. Hope things are going well with you, Mark Arsten (talk) 17:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Still have the da*n cough I came down with in Australia, and I lost 4 years worth of data when my laptop's harddrive went Dodo on me. Other than that, not bad. As for FAC... yeah, definitely something else. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • That is a lot of data to loose, too bad. I've had quite a cough myself the past week. I lost my voice too, making Wikipedia communication much easier than talking in the real world. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Probably a reflection of how stunted my social development was, but I find that true every day :-) Except for interactions with certain, unnamed editors. Alright, good luck with FAC and I hope you find the article interesting. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Early life of L. Ron Hubbard

Hi. This article is basically good to go, but there's one potentially contentious statement which needs supporting citations for me to pass it - please see the review. Thanks. --He to Hecuba (talk) 08:47, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for doing the review! I'll try to get that bit cited later today. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

autocollapse, in Template mode

Hi, Ive copy'd a template. But it seems to have copied the autocollapse function for the template... How the hell do you turn it off??? - Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I really don't know too much about templates. You might want to ask at the Wikipedia:Help desk. Also, please try to use edit summaries when making changes, it helps other users see what you're doing. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 18:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

No probs, I was just creating links between 2 wiki page templates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:30, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, not a problem, feel free to keep working on it. Also, you might think about registering an account if you plan to be active here. Regards, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:32, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Copyeditor Barnstar Hires.png The Copyeditor's Barnstar
Thanks for giving Poedjangga Baroe a look (and trimming excess verbosity). I should do Tony's exercises for conciseness, but... no time LOL. Hope you found it an interesting read. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:35, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, that was actually a pretty interesting read. I never figured out how to pronounce it though. One thing that I do find helpful for sharpening my skills is to looks a the copyediting changes that Malleus or someone like him makes to a relatively well-written article. It gives me things to watch for. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
  • LOL, mix Dutch spelling with a third language and the result is admittedly confusing. It's roughly poo-JAHNG-ga ba-ROO, with the "r" rolled like in French. I'll try and put IPA and non-IPA pronunciation as well. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:05, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Would you prefer Porky Pig or Porky Minch? (odd how many Porkies there are...) Although to be honest, Porgy and Bess was something I had never heard of. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Ahh, I spent many fond hours playing EarthBound back in the day. What a fun game that was. I'm surprised our articles on the subject aren't of higher quality, compared with the Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy series. I'm actually not too familiar with Porgy and Bess either, I just know about it from the song Summertime. In other news, I just lost an hour of sandbox work when my computer crashed. How dispiriting... Mark Arsten (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Argh. I had that happen when I was working on KLa Project (note that it's still a red-link)... I haven't gone back to it yet. I hate when that happens, although mine is usually because of a browser error. :-( Now, like on Poedjangga Baroe or Sjumandjaja (another mouthful, eh?) or the Great Mosque of Central Java, I go one source - save - one source - save and so on. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think it was static electricity or something that froze the computer, I felt a shock when I picked it up. I worry about biting off more than I can chew on this article, so losing an hour of boring work isn't helpful. I was working on a bit project in december and got bored halfway through the research, hopefully I'll get around to doing the rest of the work eventually! Mark Arsten (talk) 02:52, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Ugh. Well, I just repaired my external hard drive so hopefully most of my old pictures are rescuable... but anything from 2011 (pretty much) is gone Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


Thanks, I finally got it there. Plus I got a Four Award, makes me proud.--WillC 02:40, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

  • WOW, I had never seen Toilet paper orientation before, that is amazing. Might take a few tries to get that one through FAC though. I wonder what the record is for most nominations? S&M (song) is on its 6th nomination in the past year, whoever is behind that one must be a really persistent person. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:54, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks Crisco--WillC 05:01, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • You're welcome, Will. Nice article. Regarding the other comments, the European toilet paper holder actually was TFA on 1 April 2005, aka the first year we put hoaxes on the mainpage (other such content was ITN: Britannica buys Wikipedia). However, it was as a fake article as indicated by some German name. As for FAC... I'd expect it to not be as many as the AFDs for GNAA (22 and counting). Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:35, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
  • The question is, how many tries at FAC would the GNAA take? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • there's like 3 already... needless to say, if The Human Centipede drew a firestorm on the mainpage, GNAA would certainly bring about the apocalypse. If someone could keep the article free of vandalism and well sourced, it could probably pass without too many FACs. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, the GNAA as TFA would pretty much be the end of the world--it is funny to think of though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Very. I've seen several weird articles that would make great TFAs. Perhaps the Wooffan SS (aka Furred Reich). Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:02, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

snake handling picture

There's something called the Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop where you can request to have a photograph fixed up. User:Crisco 1492 uses it a lot. I was hoping that your article passes FAC (besides being really fascinated with it) so that Crisco and I could feature the snake photo in on the Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-02-13/Featured content - the next issue. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:03, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

That would be awesome, I'd love to see that picture make it into the signpost. (I forgot you work on that, I love the signpost.) I'm a bit clueless about the graphics stuff though, would they know what to do if I just asked them to "fix it up"? Or is there some jargon I should be using? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • LOL, I love edit conflicts on my own talk page. I've been getting them more lately... if only I had seen your post a minute earlier I could have saved myself a revert there... this is the picture we're talking about. Any ideas what to ask for? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I probably sound like a photographer asking a copy editor to "do something with all those letters to make it better". Mark Arsten (talk) 01:37, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict for me too!) Hey, I didn't know about that one, Crisco! I just love all the illustrations you come up with! MathewTownsend (talk) 01:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • A slight crop for the Signpost maybe... not much else to do to the image. Lighting is pretty nice and it would be counterproductive to try and get rid of all the people in the background. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Seeing the context, I'd use it without editing, probably. Sometimes great pictures are left out from the report. For the above-linked upcoming edition, the Mona Lisa was left out because we were already showing The Starry Night, and a nice picture of Girls' Generation was left out as well (to minimize the number of pictures I nominated, for that one). Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Interesting, well, I think we're counting eggs before they hatch at this point, I'd hate to jinx the article... But I see an excellent writer has started taking a run through the article tonight, so that is a good sign. BTW, that's a really good picture of Girls' Generation, it's pretty awesome to get a picture of a band like that rather than a picture somebody took at a concert. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:19, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, it looks like they were able to clean it up a bit, it does look a lot nicer if you put them side by side. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah, the only pain was identifying them (as I noted at the nomination, my students could probably do it better than me). Luckily they have some fans on-wiki who were willing to help. I'll have to take a look to see what they did. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

George Went Hensley and CITEREF

Hi, Mark. I noticed this article on User talk:Astynax. I made a few edits to help it along. I saw the ref = CITREF… and changed them to use {{sfnRef}} which is designed to do exactly this encoding. It results in clearer cite definitions. However, they could simply be ref = harv… So I figured I ask: Did you do this to avoid the "&" and get "and" instead? Or possibly to avoid having "|" in the {{sfn}}? Alarbus (talk) 13:38, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Alarbus, thanks for helping out with that. Astynax actually handled the citation templates for this article, I hadn't used sfn in the past (although I'm starting to like it). I guess you'd have to ask Astynax about the ref fields to be sure. (All this template stuff is way over my head!) Mark Arsten (talk) 16:15, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome. I just pointed Astynax at this. I've worked on a lot of articles that they and Lecen did. Ping me if you've cite template questions. Alarbus (talk) 16:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, will do. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
This sounds fine to me as well. In the past, I've used named CITREF's while an article is still "under construction" just because I'm used to it and at that point it is not always clear what references (some from the same authors/years) might be added or changed. You are more familiar than I with variations on the templates, so I've no problem with changing/simplifying the cites. Thanks. • Astynax talk 18:19, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Alexis Bachelot copyedit

I just wanted to let you know that I have (finally!) made my way through the main body of the article. I now need to go back and check the lead for proper summarization. I'll probably do that tomorrow, along with one more quick pass through the whole article, though I don't expect much else to change besides the lead. Just FYI, I'll probably trim the lead fairly significantly... some stuff might migrate back into the main article body, but from a quick first read, it looks a bit long for the total length of the article. LivitEh?/What? 00:47, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh hey, thanks a lot for doing all that on the article--I'm so glad I asked you to help. It's hard to get good copyeditors around here these days so I am really happy that you got to take a good look over the article. Feel free to trim back the lead, I do tend to generally make those too long. (Easier to delete excess summary during a review than come up with new stuff.) I'll probably nominate the article at WP:FAC within a month or so. (I have a couple articles there already, so I have to wait for one to be closed before adding a new one). Mark Arsten (talk) 01:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Just so you know, I haven't forgotten this... I've got the lead outline on paper, I just need to type it up, and I plan to do that this afternoon.  :) Do let me know if you nominate it at FAC, I'd not mind following the process. I have a closet dream of working on some WP:VITAL articles and getting them at least to 'A' class, but I have no experience with the article review processes here. LivitEh?/What? 13:20, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I read through the article again yesterday and was very pleased with your work. I really appreciate it, I'm glad I asked you. I'll probably nominate it at WP:FAC soon, I have two co-nominations there right now (the limit)--but it looks like one will probably be flunked soon (I haven't gotten any opposes or supports on it, and I think they flunk them if they go three weeks without a support) so I should be able to nominate it soon. Would you be willing to help me out again? (As usual, take all the time you want.) Elias Abraham Rosenberg is next in line on my FAC nomination list after Bachelot--it's not too long of an article and I think it's in Ok shape as far as prose goes. Not a problem if you aren't interested though, you have done quite a bit for me as it is--feel free to ask me to help with anything you find yourself working on.
I'll definitely let you know when it is nominated, interesting to hear your thoughts about work on vital articles. I haven't worked on any, but I followed the brouhaha at WT:FAC a few months back. I guess the hard part of vital articles (like Musical instrument, for example) is that they often involve a lot of research and they attract a lot of attention from know-it-alls who want their specific perspective to be reflected in the article. So it takes more effort in that sense--but your work gets read by a ton of people, unlike the easier articles on more trivial topics. Plus, it really too bad how many traditional "encyclopedic" topics we have in poor shape these days. My best advice is to find people who have a lot of experience getting high-visibility articles improved and get as much help from them as you can. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I've finished with the lead and I took one more pass through the whole article... I think I'm done. Let me know if you have any issues with it. I'll be back to your talk page to continue the discussion on Vital Articles... I've got the flu and I'm heading back to bed now. :) LivitEh?/What? 17:38, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Wow, thanks for helping with the article while you're sick. I had a bad case of the flu last month, that is really a vexing sickness! Mark Arsten (talk) 18:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Castles are rooks

Actual. Positive. Made of stone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Sir. Thank you, Sir. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Request for quick look

Hi Mark. I just posted Gauss' Pythagorean right triangle proposal and will be posting to DYK soon. I was hoping to have someone take a quick look, and point out anything glaring. You know that when you're the writer, you're too close to the subject to sometimes to see even obvious errors. If you're too busy, don't worry about it. Thanks.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:56, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that is an interesting article. Not a bad idea either... Mark Arsten (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I took a quick glance and made a couple small changes, hope you don't mind. I'll try to look again when I have more time. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks much Mark. Good idea using the convert template! I wish there was more written on this subject but I haven't found much else than what you see.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:01, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
No problem, it's quite a funny article though, really interesting to read. I tend to believe you when you say there isn't much else on the topic, I sure trust your research skills! Mark Arsten (talk) 05:08, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: Note About Talk Pages

Hah! Good call. I did that pretty much for my own amusement, but I do understand that it's against the rules. Cheers! MisterRichValentine (talk) 01:01, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

No problem, I understand--it is often quite tempting to do that! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:03, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Romney neologism AfD

Although I originally voted to keep the article on romney neologism, I like your proposal to merge it with the Seamus (dog) article. The two topics are related, and I think that if we have to merge this article, it would be far better to merge it with the Seamus article than to add it the Mitt Romney article, where it would be considered undue weight.Debbie W. 01:49, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, glad to know you liked my !vote. (Sometimes I wonder if people ever read what I write on those things.) I guess I tend to be a bit of a Mergist myself, these days. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:58, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

A Community of Witches

Ah, shame it didn't obtain FA status, but thank you for reviewing it. All the best. (Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC))

Capcom Five FAC

Hi Mark, thanks for your comments on this FAC. I think I addressed all of your points. Would you care to take a look again and provide support or further opposition? Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 00:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for pinging me, I tend to forget to revisit things. I'll read through the article one more time before I reply. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:04, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Early life of L. Ron Hubbard

Left a few minor points at Talk:Early life of L. Ron Hubbard/GA1. Shouldn'y take much to sort out. Cheers AIRcorn (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thanks, I'll try to work those out later today. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


  • Hi Mark, I don't know if you remember giving the article Chrisye a copyedit, but it is now at FAC if you'd like to provide feedback. I'm hoping this can be TFA on the anniversary of his death. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:43, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh wow, it's at FAC already. Sure, I'll try to make time to go over it again. I officially have a featured article to my credit as of about an hour ago, so I guess I'm an expert on the process now :) Mark Arsten (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
      • LOL. That's one more than me. Mind you, I rarely have the chance to find so many sources about a topic. GA is the last stop for many of them. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
        • Well, that's not necessarily a bad thing, writing a lot of did you know/good articles arguably provides more value to the project than focusing on one or two featured articles a year. But you can certainly learn a lot by having you work scrutinized by FAC reviewers. And it certainly helps to have a featured article or two if you run for Admin. Oh well, the important thing is that you enjoy what you're working on, I guess. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:07, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
          • Of course. I'd be unable to handle most of the math-related articles, for example. Even the simplest drives me to sleep. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
            • You're not alone there--I've noticed that we have very few featured (or even good) articles about math (or maths, if you prefer). By my count, if one excludes biographies, we only have 38 good or featured math articles. For reference, that's less than the amount of good or featured articles about Beyonce (fifty something). Wow, that is remarkable, but definitely understandable. I've never been much of a Beyonce fan, but I certainly find her more interesting than the Shapley–Folkman lemma (Don't tell Kiefer I said that.) Mark Arsten (talk) 01:59, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Got him

Why is it so often "penis" anyway? Well, I guess thirteen year olds spend a great deal of time thinking about uses for them.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:09, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

lol, that is a good question. I bet Freud would have a field day analyzing Wikipedia vandalism. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Huh, you know, I actually had no idea that you were an Admin until a minute ago. I would have been more obsequious had I known :) Mark Arsten (talk) 02:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Uh yes, kowtow now worm, or I shall smite thee with my mop.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:14, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes sir! Mark Arsten (talk) 02:15, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
I think I'm what they call a low drama admin. For instance, I avoid WP:ANI like the plague for the most part (not that I'm saying it doesn't serve some vital functions, but I have enough aggravation). If you ever need admin services please feel free to call on me (not "block this person that annoyed me", but more "move this article to a better name"; "do a history swap"; "edit this protected template", etc.)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:24, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I think if I ever become an admin I'll try to keep to the low-drama lifestyle as well. I don't know how those admins who are always involving themselves in the most controversial parts of the project deal with it. I doubt I'd find that very fun at all. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
No, me neither (obviously) and it is somewhat amazing how often the same names come up over and over everywhere there's drama.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:30, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Not talking about me by any chance are you? ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 02:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I doubt it, I think you are much easier to deal with than a lot of the people involved in the Israeli-Palestinian articles, or the Balkan ones, for that matter. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


Just to led you know, I've addressed your comments at the FAC. Thanks for the input! Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I just finished up some recent change patrolling, and I'll try to go over another section or two before I get too tired. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:06, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
You know, it's really funny to me that you, Malleus, and I are editing at the same time, considering the time difference between the US, England, and Indonesia. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:36, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • That's an understatement, LOL. I don't think he usually edits that late. Congrats on Prosperity theology, btw. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:32, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I should amend my statement from two days ago. Apparently two articles I translated from English to Indonesian have been featured on the Indonesian Wikipedia (after they fixed the language... I'm not a native speaker, after all.) Sitti Nurbaya (from this) and Belenggu (from this). Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey, that's pretty cool that you have a couple featured articles there--especially not being a native speaker. I wonder what that project is like, are there many noticeable differences from RE: Prosperity theology, thanks, it is really cool to get that featured--it gets a pretty decent amount of page views too (~10k a month, I think). I thought for sure it would fail when we nominated it, but I guess I was mistaken. I actually got involved in the article because it seemed too negative and I wanted to try making a neutral article on a somewhat controversial topic. I think it came out mostly neutral in the end, it's one of those subjects where it's tricky to judge neutrality. Oh, and BTW, are you familiar with Wikichecker? Service is a bit spotty, but you can what hours of the day people generally edit. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:05, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, the Indonesian Wikipedia is completely different. For one thing, TFA is actually "FA for the next week or two", so Belenggu will be there for a while. Another is that FU images are used a lot more liberally. Some of their FAs on living people have 3 or more FU images. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:26, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Replied again. Interesting band name... Jazz, maybe? Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:52, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, that does sound like Jazz. Alright, the FAC seems to be going well. I'll try to finish my read-through tonight. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:24, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I've added a couple of lines to the style section. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:22, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Alright, I've supported--after fixing an unfortunate typo! Mark Arsten (talk) 02:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

  • I noticed that. Good for a laugh. I'm done my comments too at the FAC for Alexis Bachelot... not as good as you at prose reviews though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:10, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the review, I'm glad you're not quite as long-winded as I am on reviews! My co-nom helped a lot with the prose though, or else there probably would be a lot more fluff to be culled. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:24, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Not to mention the article is a third the size of the one you reviewed... that kinda affects how much feedback I can leave. Interesting enough read though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh yes, it sure is nice to deal with a relatively small article now and then. I did a review of George Romney a few weeks back, that sure took a long time. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:47, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • George W. Romney? Oh my... yeah, I wouldn't be able to write that much. Chrisye was fairly easy (if expensive), but getting stuff like Poedjangga Baroe to even a third of that length would require a lot more effort than I'm willing to give. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:57, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I don't know how Wasted Time R does it. He's actually planning on pushing Mitt Romney up to FA if he locks up the nomination (which is looking more likely as of yesterday)--that will be a long read too. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Don't know who did it, but they had McCain and Obama as featured articles during the last election. US presidents and presidential candidates have many fans, I guess. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:14, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • ...and many detractors, as well! Mark Arsten (talk) 04:15, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, the Oscar Meyer Weiner could be president. Then everybody would be in love with the president. (Considering some towns have elected goats and dogs and foot powder, that is frighteningly plausible). Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The Oscar Meyer Weiner would probably do better than the last American politician named Weiner... Mark Arsten (talk) 04:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

  • Well, he played with his 'ie' and she played with her 'ei'... Oh, brain bleach! Mind you, it would be nice to have "Weinergate" on the main page... And yes, I just realised I left a typo up there. Blah. Wienie whistle. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:50, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, that is funny. BTW, I just pinged KAVEBEAR and a couple other people with Hawaiian userboxes, hopefully they can set me straight. There really aren't that many Hawaiian speakers on Wikipedia, I guess. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • KAVEBEAR is really into Hawaii-related topics, so he should be rarin' to help. Replied to your email, btw. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I was just thinking, perhaps it would be preferable to either strike the addressed issues or move them to the talk page, per the page header.

    To withdraw the objection, strike it out (with ... ) rather than removing it. Alternatively, reviewers may transfer lengthy, resolved commentary to the FAC archive talk page, leaving a link in a note on the FAC archive.

Maybe the long list of comments is preventing people from taking a further look. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:13, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
You know, that actually occurred to me but I didn't get around to doing it. On my way now. Thanks for the image review on Bachelot! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:33, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks. Not sure if the FA regulars will accept the image review, but I can't imagine being wrong on any of the images currently in that article. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:43, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, worst case scenario is that somebody re-posts the same thing you did. Well, they can't say we didn't try to make it easy on them. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:48, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

GA barnstar.png The Good Article Barnstar
Thanks Mark, for helping to promote William S. Sadler to Good Article status. Please accept this little sign of appreciation and goodwill from me, because you deserve it. Keep it up, and give someone a pat on the back today. Wikipelli Talk 21:19, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey thanks for the barnstar, I'll add it to my collection :) Mark Arsten (talk) 21:22, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Alexis Bachelot

Nice article. I replaced your image of King Kamehameha III with another one of his in his youth; the one you had wasn't dated to 1824 but 1850. Do you want to use this image showing the French and British meeting with the Hawaiian king and chiefs?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments and the help with the images. Yes, I think that one would make a good addition to the article. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
It should be noted that the deportation of the Catholic missionaries occur the same year as High Chiefess Liliha's fall from power after her attempted rebellion.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 12:10, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I'll see if any of the sources connect the two events, I recall seeing something about her rebellion in one of them. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


Just wanted to let you know I have replied to your question on my talk page. -Jhortman (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


I have replied to your comments on S&M. AaronYou Da One 21:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I'm not sure if I'll have much more time available to work on it though. Best of luck, Mark Arsten (talk) 22:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Lol, I don't expect you to do anything else to it, but a Support or Oppose would be appreciated. AaronYou Da One 16:14, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, no support or oppose, but I posed a summary of my thoughts. Hope the rest of the nomination goes well, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

really interesting person

Have you thought of doing Julian Assange? Saw an interest piece on pbs last night. Kinda of an inscrutable person. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:39, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

He is a very interesting person, definitely has that sort of mysterious, ambiguous quality to him. I'm not really a fan of his, but I can't say that I really dislike him either. I hadn't thought of working on his article though, I'd be worried about running into editors with battleground/POV mentalities. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad though. I guess it's B-class now, so it wouldn't be unthinkable to get it up to GA, with some luck. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:48, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Maybe if I work on Assange I'll work on Andrew Breitbart too--just for the sake of balance. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
The editor responsible for Campaign for "santorum" neologism and promoting the Dan Savage stuff was desopped through an Arbcom not too long ago for being an inveterate POV pusher. Unfortunately I can't find the arbcom case. He's still a checkuser at Wikinews and POV pushes there. The editor is User:Cirt. MathewTownsend (talk) 02:15, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes, that was the Cirt and Jayen case. I talked with Jayen briefly a few weeks back, but I don't think I've interacted with Cirt in the past. The whole santorum neologism kinda bothered me though, I mean, I'm certainly not voting for Santorum, but the whole "let's call him frothy mix" nonsense is so juvenile. I mean, I do like low-brow humor sometimes, but that's not even low-brow funny, just low-brow stupid. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:27, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Agree completely. I have great respect for Jayen and it took great skill to finally nail Cirt. Agree with you about Santorum. I have no understanding of the guy and no interest, but I don't think it's wikipedia's job to exaggerate a controversy over him, while meantime promoting an dime-a-dozen opinion-pusher like Dan Savage. MathewTownsend (talk) 02:42, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, on the bright side, at least Campaign for "romney" neologism was snuffed out. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:47, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


Actually, Ahalya needs some work on the prose. It needs some copyeditor(s) and reviewer(s), who can go through the whole article and perfect the prose in terms of MOS and redundancy. Please let me know if you know anyone like that or if you can take a look. --Redtigerxyz Talk 05:09, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the edits. I mean, wow!!! The sentences you touched, really flow better. --Redtigerxyz Talk 09:28, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Glad you liked them! I'll try to go over the rest later. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. You can really remove redundancy and reword in accordance with encyclopaedic registrar, without changing the meaning of the sentence. I dont know if you have tried it before, but you can a great help to the community as a copyeditor too. --Redtigerxyz Talk 05:46, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, it's really good to hear that. I've been trying to improve my copyediting skill recently, so it is excellent to get this kind of feedback. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:52, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Congrats on the promotion of Bachelot. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:25, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm shocked that it got promoted that fast. Wow. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:15, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I had a question: In "Gautama then curses Ahalya to remain invisible to all beings for thousands of years, to fast by subsisting only on air .." is the second to needed? --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I recall seeing that sentence, kind of a tricky one. I think I'd put it: ""Gautama then curses Ahalya to remain invisible to all beings for thousands of years and fast by subsisting only on air". Mark Arsten (talk) 16:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

New Cracker Barrel peer review

I forgot to inform you earlier, but I opened up a new peer review for Cracker Barrel to focus specifically on meeting the FA criteria. I'm not sure if there's anything else you can think of to improve the article, but if there is anything, please feel free to leave a comment about it in the peer review. And thanks for your help in the prior one. SilverserenC 19:25, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the notice, hope it goes well. I'll try to revisit the article soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:34, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


Wow, are you trying to go to FA with that? 10k characters and counting, oh my. Can you imagine the backdraft if the article reached the main page as TFA? Don't know if you noticed, but I gave you a better image of him leading the march as well. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:39, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the second image, it looks pretty good. Well, my first thought was to try to go to GA--but now that I look at it, there's no real reason that I should have to stop there. It has been pretty easy to find sources about him, I found at least 20 books on Google books that have at least a few pages about him. In my (admittedly small) experience, sourcing is the most important part of writing a near-FA article--everything rests on that foundation. You can find other people to copyedit and peer review your work, but nobody is going to dig through old books on your behalf. And in this case, a lot of people have written about that sad chapter in American history. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed. On any article I write, the main issue is finding sources. Even for US topics like Teaserama. The sources were there, just n oone took a look for them. If you do bring this to FA, I think it will be a good indicator that Wikipedia can cover even the most heinous topics neutrally. Wow, still up? Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed about covering heinous topics, I think the best example is how Diannaa and Wehwalt have gotten several Nazi articles to GA or FA. Pretty impressive. On a lighter note: Teaserama, huh, hadn't heard of that before. Another potential shocking TFA... BTW, speaking of the KKK, has a piece today about Operation Red Dog, what an odd story that was. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:15, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, it takes real talent to take a controversial or heinous topic/person etc. and craft a neutral article. And such articles make the most interesting reading! MathewTownsend (talk) 17:45, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, I red that (I read Cracked every day). Well, looking forward to seeing how far this gets. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 4

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Take your stinking paws off me you damn dirty bot! Mark Arsten (talk) 17:15, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I take it noone ever told him "no means no". Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:31, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, it's gotten to the point where I try to double check when I add links to avoid these talk page messages. I guess I should have realized that there was more than one [[Department of Education]]. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

WP:Featured article candidates/Alexis Bachelot/archive1

How did you do that? Not even 1 week! Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I have no clue--I was so surprised to see that. I can't recall seeing anything get promoted that fast before, quite mind-boggling. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, thought that wasn't allowed but very nice to see. Congratulations! MathewTownsend (talk) 22:11, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, we have a couple new FA delegates, so I guess they are doing things a bit different than our old ones did. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • It's great for me. Interesting topics and you usually have an image I can use! MathewTownsend (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed... wow, two weeks in a row Mark's name will be in the Signpost for an FA. That's what, 4 now? Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, it is really cool to be in it two weeks in a row--I should probably savor this while I can. (Actually only two!) Mark Arsten (talk) 23:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
For this edit summary... Eisfbnore talk 14:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I really couldn't resist saying that, "In Soviet Russia..." jokes never get old in my opinion. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Elias Abraham Rosenberg question...

"Nodel reports that Rosenberg might have sold emu eggs from Australia."... I'm recasting this sentence... did he sell emu eggs from Australia while in Australia, or bring them with him when he left Australia and sold them later? I don't want to change the meaning, but at the moment it's really unclear. LivitEh?/What? 00:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

That's a good question, I wasn't too sure how to phrase it (I might remove it), there's a single sentence about it in the source, it reads: "He is reported to have sold 'ausgeblosene' [blown out] emu eggs which he gathered down under". It almost sounds like he gathered them in Australia and sold them elsewhere? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Sounds plausible to me. Reference? (I'm watching your talkpage, no need for {{tb}}.) LivitEh?/What? 01:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
The sentence I just provided was on Nodel page 360, irritatingly, he doesn't say who originally reported it. Thanks for your help on this, hopefully it will be another easy FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
OK, I'll cite it as such. I've hacked apart the San Francisco section. I'm not a fan of naming the source in the prose, so I've taken all those out. I understand you're naming sources within sources, but since you're citing page numbers I don't think that's necessary. I've recast things pretty significantly, but I don't think anything was lost. Can you compare the before and after, and let me know if you're OK with it? LivitEh?/What? 01:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I like how you did the part with the emu eggs. I'm fine with the changes up to this point removing the source names isn't a big issue for me. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Cool. I'm working on the next section now. I'd like to finish this one tonight, I have about another hour to work on it. ;) LivitEh?/What? 01:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good. It may seem like a short article, but it is actually remarkable that I managed to expand it to this length since the sources were so tough to dig up. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
OK, I'm done for tonight. It's probably 98% done, but I tend to miss a few things the first time through. I'll take another look tomorrow, but if you spot anything in the mean time, go ahead and edit. LivitEh?/What? 02:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, you sure got a lot done tonight. I'll try to take a read through and check out all the changes. My plan was to nominate this at FAC when the one for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement is closed. I have a peer review open though, so I guess I will wait for that to finish up too. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Now, that's an interesting one... Seriously though, it's been fun. It's so much easier and more fun to work with an author who cares about the subject and responds to questions. I'd be happy to keep working with you on your next one. I'm happy to wait until Rosenberg is up for FAC (ping me when you post it so I can do an (obvious) support and keep an eye on the discussion), and then we can start on the next one—assuming you have more in your stable. LivitEh?/What? 03:03, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Glad to hear that you enjoyed it! I do some copyediting from time to time, but I often find it quite tiring. I'll definitely ping you when this gets to FAC. I do have a few more I'm thinking of bringing to FAC, hard to figure out which one to try first though... Mark Arsten (talk) 03:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
One other question: did you read through the Notes section at the bottom? I see you didn't make any changes there, but I wasn't sure if that was because you didn't see anything that needed changing or because you overlooked it. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:27, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I think I took a quick look and didn't find anything glaringly horrible, but I'll look again when I do the last pass through. LivitEh?/What? 14:48, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I guess it was easier for me to polish the notes, since they're just one or two sentences. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


I recall you doing a small copyedit on Turning Point (2008), I was wondering if you would be willing to perform another on Sacrifice (2008). Its at FAC and a copyedit has been requested.--WillC 05:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh hey, I do remember that. I think that was the first FAC I got involved in. I saw Sacrifice on there earlier when I was looking things over, I'll try to go over it and see if I can help out the prose a bit. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Alright, thank you very much. Its much appreciated.--WillC 17:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
It was alright, almost horrible. They've done better shows like Lockdown, TP, and Slammiversary. I'm more of a fan of their 2005 shows, which is what I primarily work on these days. Alright, take your time.--WillC 02:33, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Huh, interesting. Well, I finished my first pass of the article, left a few notes on the FAC. Hope I did Ok... Mark Arsten (talk) 02:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've edited some more. What do you think? (I'd like to see this guy get his FA as he's a good natured hard worker, and his topic is difficult to write about since it doesn't seem to have a popular wiki following.) MathewTownsend (talk) 19:47, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

    • Thanks for helping with that--I wish he had pinged me before nominating though. I'll read over it one more time, but I think I am close to supporting on prose. It is interesting that pro wrestling doesn't have more interested contributors, we're always hearing about how Wikipedia is so male-dominated, one would think such a masculine subject would have more coverage. Nope, people only want to write about hurricanes and Australian military officers (which are fine topics, I guess). Mark Arsten (talk) 19:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

2012 WikiGrail

USVA headstone emb-29.svg

Hi there! I was admiring your great work on Christianity-related articles, which made me think you should sign up for the 2012 WikiGrail. It is a friendly competition for Christianity-related project members that awards points for good articles, featured content, and other markers of editing skill. You simply just have to list your name here. Hope to see you there! Warm regards, – Lionel (talk) 09:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess I have gotten a couple Christianity topics up to FA this year. Interesting about the competition, I hadn't heard of that. Sounds interesting, I'll check out the rules and try to get back to you. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.

bumper sticker

I've never come across the "Thank you for not breeding" bumper sticker! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

lol, I haven't seen it either. That does make a good slogan. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:52, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Understatement of the year: "The VHEMT platform is more moderate and serious than the Church of Euthanasia, which advocates population reduction by suicide and cannibalism."!!! MathewTownsend (talk) 01:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh, they're not that radical, they specifically state that cannibalism should be: "strictly limited to consumption of the already dead"! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
      • oh, my! Thanks for clarifying. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
        • "So my best friend committed suicide, then I ate him per our doctrine." -- Perfect murder per CoE Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
          • ROFL, that's so bad... actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if Jeffery Dahmer was a saint for them? (Thanks for your support on VHEMT, BTW!) Mark Arsten (talk) 23:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
            • Shame you can only !vote once. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey, fantastic! Looks like you're going to have an FA three weeks in a row - wow. MathewTownsend (talk) 23:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
    • I hope so, but I'm wary of counting chickens before they hatch--or species before they go extinct, as the case may be... Mark Arsten (talk) 23:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, BTW, if anyone reads this, WillC asked me for a copyedit on Sacrifice (2008)--feel free to pitch in. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Hmmm... I'll see. Building some preps for DYK right now. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
      • No problem if you're busy, just thought I'd mention it. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:37, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
  • ok, now it's official. Congrats! MathewTownsend (talk) 20:04, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the congratulations and the note, it is good to get a talk page notice when something gets passed, saves me the hassle of checking my watchlist :) Mark Arsten (talk) 03:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)


I will prepare a small article. --Redtigerxyz Talk 17:13, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Cool, no rush, I just thought it would be helpful to have a link to that in Ahalya. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:57, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


Please stay off the article for a few hours to avoid edit conflicts. Thanks, Alarbus (talk) 05:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure, will do--thanks for the note. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
👍 Yes check.svg diff. Alarbus (talk) 08:12, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for doing that. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
No problem, I'm always looking for interesting articles to work on. Alarbus (talk) 00:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey: George Went Hensley#Endnotes should be done like Ahalya#Footnotes, using {{efn}}. Those cnote things are terrible. Due to WP:REFNEST, the cites should not be as footnotes, but as inline harvs in the explanatory notes. See User talk:Wehwalt#John A. Macdonald for a longer explanation of this. Alarbus (talk) 06:34, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks for the advice. I'm going to take another pass through GWH in the next few days, hopefully I can get that all straightened out. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:37, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
I'd be glad to rough it in. They'll need names that mean more than "A", "B" (and add one, and that all off). I was just looking at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 October 4#Template:Cref2 which should have resulted in delete after fixing up the less than two hundred uses; but now there are 262 articles using it. I'm going to try and talk Crisco 1492 into shifting things over to {efn} and the like. He does great work, just with a wrong template. Alarbus (talk) 06:48, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Not to point fingers or anything, but I started using the Cref2 templates after seeing Crisco use it. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:50, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
See his talk; I just left him a note, pointing here. Alarbus (talk) 07:09, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I've read through your comments here and on Wehwalt's page a couple times. I think I get what you're saying now. Mark Arsten (talk) 07:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Meh, I just started using them after looking at Jane Austen. And now they're on like 10 of my articles. Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
    They can be fixed ;-) Jane Austin would be an article started many years ago using now antiquated techniques. Articles tend to stagnate where there were first built up and this often leaves key articles using older techniques. I've been looking at articles using these and their kin with an eye to refactoring them; it's all do-able. I quick-fixed a few that were simple. Alarbus (talk) 09:47, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
I've done a lot of this and think this the best approach. These older templates ({{Ref}}, {{Note}}, {{Ref label}}, {{Note label}}, {{Cref}}, {{Cnote}}) all should be beaten with a stick until they really can be deleted. It is the nature of wikis for poor practises to linger because as people cut poor things out, others (innocently, in good faith) are propagating them further.
You seen the millions of {dot} templates in navboxes? They make editing navboxes unpleasant, produce inappropriate html in served pages, and melt servers and make page loads slow. Some months ago, we started killing of the {dots} in favour of WP:HLIST, which uses a wholly different approach and addresses all of the issues. See User:WOSlinker/wrapping for progress. Alarbus (talk) 07:41, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to the 2012 WikiGrail

Hello, and welcome to the 2012 WikiGrail! The competition has officially begun! Your submission page, where you must note any content for which you wish to claim points, can be found here, and formatting instructions can be found in hidden comments on the page. A judge will then update the main table frequently, which can be seen on the WikiGrail page. The full rules for what will and will not be awarded points can be found at Full Rules. There's also a section on that page listing the differences with the WikiCup. For those currently competing in the WikiCup, note that you can submit your WikiCup content to the WikiGrail. If you know of anyone who may like to take part, please let them know about the comeptition; the more the merrier! Good luck! – Lionel (talk) 06:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Two in one week...

<Slow clap> Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:33, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, this really has been a remarkable week. Thanks for all your help on Bachelot and VHEMT. I'm pretty glad to have my VHEMT project finished, I only had to get one person banned to get it there. I was surprised how much irritation that article caused me... well, it was a learning experience certainly. It's really cool to have a featured article on a small environmental group like that, just the kind of thing that Britannica wouldn't cover. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • "I only had to get one person banned to get it [to FA]". You and Mathew are just making me laugh today, LOL. Maybe I'm feeling sadistic. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:06, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Glad we could brighten up your day a bit. Well, if the most sadistic thing you do is laugh at people, you're probably a pretty good person... Mark Arsten (talk) 05:10, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Laughing at people for being banned? A bit sadistic, methinks. Mind you, I like understatement so that could have been a reason. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:22, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I guess that probably would qualify as sadistic--some people really take being banned pretty hard. Actually, I'm banned from Metapedia for vandalizing, that doesn't bother me very much though. In this case of VHEMT, the humor was more in the talk page debates and the reactions people had. For example, this comment really cracks me up every time I read it. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:34, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Lol, that's Drmies for you. Shame he doesn't like FAC. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:49, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, you know, it really is too bad how many skilled users we have who don't go near FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • They probably see it as more stress than it's worth. Even some WM chapter members I've met take the same standing. Mind you, a lot of people seem to push for it because GAs don't get to the main page. FP is much funner. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:55, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • You know, it kinda seems to me that the stress really wears on the long-term FAC regulars. But anyway, we need to get GAs on the main page. That would be a very good thing. Mark Arsten (talk) 07:04, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I wouldn't doubt it. Mind you, it's daunting for new editors as well. As for GAs... the main page is fairly crowded already, methinks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:07, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • You know, I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd be willing to ax In the News and replace it with 5 GAs a day. Mark Arsten (talk) 07:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry for butting in unexpectedly in a semi-private discussion, just can't suppress the desire to express what I've in mind. I see the FA List section is nuked from main page. As Mark said, some GAs will do good in main page, but nuke the useless "On this day...". The same events appear in main page year after year, in 2010, in 2012, again in 2013, and so on... That does not serve any purpose. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 08:47, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Nothings private, this is Wikipedia! Within 24 hours this entire thread will be copied by gosh knows how many bots. I was thinking more like, we do two blurbs about GAs and stick it above POTD/TFL. Obviously, I wouldn't want to displace DYK... Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Today's featured list. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:01, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I said "above"... I didn't say get rid of it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:24, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • He said gone, not great... geez. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:06, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Don't worry, Wikipedia:Today's featured list is still running, it's just on Mondays--List of scientific publications by Albert Einstein will be up tomorrow. I'd be more inclined to keep "On this day", since articles about historic events are usually more encyclopedic than the recently cobbled together articles on very obscure news events from throughout the world. But putting Good Articles below wouldn't be such a bad idea either. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:31, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

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  • In Indonesian, we call you "jablai" bot. You just keep looking for attention. Shoo! Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:22, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Dear Bot, please see this video for my opinion of you... Mark Arsten (talk) 16:22, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

American University of Sharjah picture

Hello Mark, I tried to add a copyright to the pic I posted on the American University of Sharjah site and can't find the box to post it in. Can you help? We bought the pic from the photographer, so can I just give his name? Thanks--Frances Barton (talk) 12:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not much of an expert about images and copyrights etc. I think the best place to ask would be Wikipedia:Media copyright questions, they'd be able to help you more than I can. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:22, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Editors Barnstar Hires.png The Editor's Barnstar
Congratulations on the FA status of Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. Drmies (talk) 13:40, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Church of the SubGenius

Is this up your alley? I just heard an NPR piece about it. MathewTownsend (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that would be right up my alley, along with Discordianism. I've heard a bit about them, pretty funny group. I wonder how much research I would have to do though, probably would have to sift through a ton of articles--but I'll make a note of that next time I'm thinking up future projects. I was very close to starting work on Otherkin actually, then I saw someone else had just expanded it in a different direction than I had wanted to go. Jediism might be a fairly easy article on a postmodern religious group though. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:08, 11 March 2012 (UTC)


I wouldn't be surprised that you got such results for jablai, but look at my results for "A Converted British Family". Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

  • lol, obviously, if someone searches for "A Converted British Family" they're really looking for a Russian woman in a Bikini, duh. I recall accidentally turning up porn on some very innocuous searches over the years, that's part of the reason I laugh at all the people who freak out about nudity on Commons... But this brings an interesting point up: look how small our article on Google Images is. One learns almost nothing from that article... on a pretty well-known topic. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • A 5x expansion (up to 9k characters) and we could put it on DYK. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:22, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • That would certainly be possible, there are tons of hits about it out there, even legal cases and controversies and so on. To be honest, I'm starting to get tired of reading about the Klu Klux Klan. Hopefully I'll be able to finish up the research soon and get to polishing and organizing the article. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't doubt it. I've gone diving head first into movie posters to get rid of the aftertaste of doing those images (found some nice free ones, like for The Mummy, White Zombie, and The Painted Veil)If you go to GA first, let me know so I can do the review :-D Of course, a quid pro quo review would be nice... *hint* Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • That does sound like a good idea, I haven't done too many GA reviews. Well, the research is almost done, I'll see how long it takes me to get it polished up. How many Good Article nominations do you have pending? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that is a lot pending. I'll try to pick off at least one of them. It's funny how Peer Review deals with backlogs with such zeal, limiting people to one open request at a time. I haven't been linking book urls, I tend to put as little as I can get away with. The ones I used should be pretty easy to get on Google books, though it's hit or miss which pages you can see, I guess. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:33, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • They just instituted that recently, actually. Before then you could have several. Nobody reviews, though. Same at GA, noone is reviewing. I've reviewed 24 articles, but only have 11 (12?) GA credits... There's a much better ratio at DYK, methinks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:47, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────*Personally, I love how some Western names mean completely different things in Indonesian. I once met a professor of literature from Germany, and her family name was Bandel. In informal Indonesian, Bandel means "naughty". Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

  • I knew someone who had a cranky old Indian landlord with a name like "Khul" or something. I always thought they were being sarcastic and calling him "Mr. Cool" as a joke. But speaking of German professors, I had a German philosophy professor who pronounced "Kant" in a way that would get him banned from Wikipedia (if you know what I mean). I'm not sure if that's actually the correct pronunciation or not, but it made it really hard not to laugh during long lectures about the categorical imperative.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Arsten (talkcontribs)
  • Gee, interesting. I've met a Mini as well, and there's a Chrisye song about a girl named Lenny. And my sister-in-law is Kheni (pronounced Kenny). Mind you, they have trouble pronouncing Western names too. Both my given and family names have been horribly mangled by Indonesian speakers. BTW, I replied at Belenggu, but I can't do any major edits til about 1pm my time. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:43, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Have you ever show your sister-in-law an episode of South Park? Maybe you shouldn't... BTW, it's really helpful how you have your local time on your talk page. We just went through Daylight savings, so things are all messed up. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:48, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • In Abu Dhabi I saw a brand of beer(?) called Kilkenny or Kilkheni or something like that. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:47, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • The airport, so not too out of place. An Irish pub, to be precise. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)


I was wondering if you were thinking of running GWHensley through FAC again, as the 2 weeks are up. Although some of the edits during the last nom period may not be seen as constructive by some reviewers, I'm not certain what other "work" would need to be done (ask 10 people how something should be written, and you'll likely get 10 different answers). Should you decide to renominate, it would probably be good to note that the previous candidacy produced no supports or opposes. Let me know once it is up and I'll post notices on the projects to attempt to get more reviewers to take a look. • Astynax talk 22:36, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I was going to drop a note on your talk page saying the same thing. I was actually planning on renominating this week and was making some minor tweaks over the past couple days. Feel free to do the same if you want. I think it will be best to renominate and hope for the best, waiting for a peer review could take some time and probably wouldn't come up with much unless we lucked out and got an excellent reviewer. I think it's in pretty good shape though, I've been following FAC pretty closely and worse articles have been getting supports lately. One never knows with FAC though... Mark Arsten (talk) 23:07, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • "One never knows with FAC though..." -- Another tittling understatement. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, it's true. Different reviewers have widely different standards (and widely different amounts of help they're willing to give you), so sometimes it's the luck of the draw what you get. Hmm, you know what occurred to me? FAC should have a reviewer of the year contest. People would be judged on number and quality of reviews they do and the winner gets prompt reviews on any of his/her articles for the next year. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:28, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
@Astynax: I finished my run through the article, if you could read through one more time I'll re-nominate right after you're done. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:46, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
I've gone through the article again. Some of it I have returned to something closer to our original wording, as I think that there were several edits after the last nom that muddied things before the reviewers had a chance to look at the body of the article. Too many cooks, too soon. You can have another look and renominate whenever you have the time. • Astynax talk 10:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great, thanks for doing that. I'll try to renominate later today when I have more time. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:33, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Another beer

Bintang Beer by the Beach.jpg Not Kilkenny
I'm a Guinness man myself, but here's a second glass of Bintang for you. Thanks for the speedy GA review, and I look forward to reviewing one of yours soon. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, it was good to work on a GA review in real time like that. No sense keeping it open for a week when it was in good shape. I did end up staying up a bit later than I should have though... Mark Arsten (talk) 14:31, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't doubt it (I'm off to bed now myself). Did you see this? Myself and another editor seem to have kicked off a little firestorm (I reviewed the article and suggested the hook), and this DYK of mine (probably shouldn't open it at work) seems to have stoked the fire. Last time I saw a thread this long for something I did, it was when I nominated MissingNo. to be TFA. Fun times; night, and thanks for the review. I'll prowl for one of your nominations tomorrow. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, I did see that discussion about the adult video that was a DYK, I hadn't realized you were involved though (should have guessed it was somehow your doing!). I seem to recall that an admin actually got desysopped years ago after a conflict that started with a racy DYK--this is another one of those things that keeps coming up for years on end. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:12, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, and BTW, I probably won't have anything nominated for a few days, most likely by the weekend. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Alrighty. I'll probably go to a Wikimedia event in Surakarta on Saturday, but I'll have time to review. Cheers! Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:02, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

William S. Sadler

Hi Mark. Check your email. Don't be surprised if my email takes a long time to open; it's big, as in megabytes.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:30, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that was a large file--downloaded it ok though and have started sorting through. Thanks for the quick response. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Sent you what I found for later years but there's not much, at least in this database, and surprisingly no obit. He may have been mostly out of the headlines by then (by 1960 he was 75, maybe in retirement). Although it only goes through 1922, are you familiar with Chronicling America? How about Old Fulton NY Postcards? You might find this Scirus search useful also--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:42, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, it looks like he was basically out of the news by then. I plugged him into the chronicling america site, there are a number of hits from early in his career. I'll try check on the other two soon. Hopefully I can get this to "comprehensive" fairly soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

William S. Sadler

William S. Sadler is a WP:GA and already a very fine element of content for the project. I am not a medical expert and it is in a pretty highly developed state. It is not an article that I could really help out a lot without a lot of research and effort. Try either WP:PR or pinging some of the talk page project. I added a few projects to the talk page.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:10, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, it's hard for me to judge my own work so it is good to hear that from you! I probably will send it to peer review once the article I have there now closes (since we're limited to one open request now). Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I was going to start a new section, but I don't like seeing the same topic three times in a row! Anyways, you know what I was going to say (you're acting on it already!) Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:53, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
    • lol, thanks, nothing wrong with threadjacking--I've done it myself a time or two. Thanks for those comments, they look pretty good--only a couple I disagree with. I'm going to have to dig into a couple sources for dates etc., but I think I can handle it all. I keep getting mixed up though, because I have three works by the same authors, I keep trying to pull up information and using the wrong source and then panicking because I think I totally messed up. Going to have some more coffee now... Mark Arsten (talk) 15:59, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
      • Well, you have my support yet again. Good job! On an unrelated note, Poedjangga Baroe, Chrisye, and Atheis are all FAs on the Indonesian Wikipedia now; apparently you are allowed to close your own nominations there if there is enough consensus. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:20, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
        • Huh, I can't see that idea taking off here anytime soon! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
          • You're telling me. The RFC would be a nightmare. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:43, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
            • lol, that would be quite a mess. So much time-wasting drama around here. But there is some good news, I saw on Jimbo's talk page that they're going to give out some HighBeam accounts for free==that's a big step in the right direction, I really hope I can get one. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
          • “If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it.”
          and see the threat in the second box on my talk. There isn't even a rule against it, just an autocrat. Alarbus (talk) 04:41, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
          Yes, I saw that box, I had a good laugh about that one. Oh, and thanks for changes the notes on Sadler, I had meant to change over to efn but hadn't gotten too. I must admit, I am baffled about the .27 business though. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
          Do read the Examiner piece by Thekohser. On Sadler, the {efn} need better names; I left a comment in there about it. As things move or new notes are added, the correspondence between the names and the generated [a-z] links will get lost. .27 is an encoding of an apostrophe character and it's needed in {sfnRef}. It just means (in pairs or triples) italic (or bold). In the {sfn} encoding is not needed, so use actual apostrophes. But they have to correspond or the links break.
          You should install:
          very useful for these templates. Alarbus (talk) 05:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
          • Ok, I think I get it now. I'll make a note to install those scripts, thanks. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • IAR, eh? Jenna Jameson, welcome to the front page! Now to see if we have a nude picture of you on Commons... Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
    • What's really strange to me is that Jenna Jameson is the only pornography FA that we have. One would think that if Wikipedia was really as male dominated as people make it out to be there would be a lot more of them. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
      • Most guys aren't academically interested in porn... Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
    Use this; maybe no one will notice the difference ;-> looks better, and safer, too. Alarbus (talk) 06:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, we don't want a bunch of angry porn nerds (perds) chasing us for mixing up the two... the mess would be terrible! Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
    The greater concern would be the other woman's lawyers. (What would Sadler think of this thread?) Alarbus (talk) 06:37, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • He'd tell us to handle a king cobra to show we have not deviated from the Lord's path, most likely. Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:36, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, Hensley would tell us to handle a snake, not Sadler. Interestingly though, Sadler was sorta laid back about sex for a man of his era and compared to his mentor John Harvey Kellogg, he was downright libertine, but that's not saying very much.
  • Kellogg's article is downright hilarious, I envy the person who got to write that one. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • This got me thinking about the lack of high-quality pornography articles though. I think a large part of it might be the difficulty of finding high-quality unbiased sources. There are a lot of promotional sources and a number of polemical sources criticizing things, but one would probably have to work hard to find FA-quality sourcing. Not to say there isn't any though, I'm sure there are a few academic works on the subject. Oh well, I have enough on my plate at the moment as it is with snake handlers and white supremacists. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:36, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, Graham of Graham cracker fame was pretty hardline as well... "Eat food with dull flavours, for that is how thou shalt avert sin". Sorry for dumping that second one on you! Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:08, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Some of those topics you do should get rid of any excess drive... depressing. Me? I'm expanding the article on a western. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

(undent)Interesting, I've never gotten into westerns, maybe I should look some up. Are there Canadian westerns? I hear there are cowboys in western Canada. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:37, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

  • Hmm... never checked. I'm only doing this article because the poster is awesome... and free! Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:40, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
  • And it's old, so you won't get yelled at for "promoting commercial interests". (A charge I find quite silly.) Mark Arsten (talk) 23:41, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Poster - Virginian, The (1929) 01.jpg
  • Well, that works at least. I like the idea of a did you know ... that ? Mark Arsten (talk) 23:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

A Free Ride FA

Great copyedit! BTW, I have a new suggestion, what do you think? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 05:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

No problem, I like copyediting short articles more than huge ones. Your proposed wording looks ok, maybe "have suggested" would work too though. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I've added a cite video template [9], but the director's name is not displaying. Could you fix it? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 06:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I haven't used a cite video template before, but I can take a look. BTW, sorry if I introduced any prose issues in my copyedit. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:36, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
No prob. BTW the citation issue is solved, it was happening because the citation template does not have "people" parameter. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 07:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Glad to hear it. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

AWB error

My apologies if this has been addressed, this regarding an edit you made back in January but went unnoticed/uncorrected until now. you might want to look at the scripts you are running with AWB. this edit did indeed fix a malformed image tag, but in doing so introduced a syntax error that resulted in template code being displayed instead of the intended image. Cheers, Dave (talk) 21:01, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out to me. I try to review the AWB edits, but occasionally I do miss something like that. I'll keep a watch for that issue in the future. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Les U. Knight

I was thinking if Les U. Knight meets WP:BASIC. There are multiple coverages on him in mainstream sources (for example this one). What do you think? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 11:16, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I think he does meet BASIC notability, I'm a bit surprised no one has created an article on him before. (Though of course there is a chance that someone would Afd it anyway.) I guess the question is, why should we have an article on him? For most people, that's a very easy question to answer. It's a bit more complicated in Knight's case since we have an article that tells a lot about him already. He does seem to be notable though, use your best judgement, I guess. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:George Went Hensley preaching.JPG

A tag has been placed on File:George Went Hensley preaching.JPG requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a non-free file with a clearly invalid licensing tag; or it otherwise fails some part of the non-free content criteria. If you can find a valid tag that expresses why the file can be used under the fair use guidelines, please replace the current tag with that tag. If no such tag exists, please add the {{non-free fair use in|article name that the file is used in}} tag, along with a brief explanation of why this constitutes fair use of the file. If the file has been deleted, you can re-upload it, but please ensure you place the correct tag on it.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

How dare you nominate that for deletion, you mountebank! Mark Arsten (talk) 17:59, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I think this picture has merit. It shows him preaching, and (perhaps) one of his wives holding the book beside him. Shows him in situ. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, maybe that was hasty of me--but I find all the nuances of our fair use policy baffling. Feel free to ping J Milburn about it, maybe you can change his mind. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:04, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, I contested it on the deletion page File talk:George Went Hensley preaching.JPG. But I think you should put it in the article, as I think one reason for deleting a fair use image is if it's not being used. Personally, I think it conveys a lot about the atmosphere around his preaching that can't be conveyed in words and I'd really miss it. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I would too, and I was pretty irritated at the thought of deleting it--but I was worried that J Milburn would oppose on images owing to the NFCC commercial image thing. I really don't know what to do here. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:23, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
well, I've seem all sorts of Fair use justifications, and it really seems to depend on how articulate the rationale is. I think the image is very Appalachian (just look at those women) and nothing but the actual picture shows that. He's not in a church, in a pulpit, wearing preacher's robes, but in his shirt sleeves with a few people around him. And he's exhorting! It's an old picture and of poor quality; it's not like your ruining some photographers livelihood by using it. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
That is true, maybe I jumped the gun there. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
After all, they justify scenes from current TV programs etc. under Fair use, things that are obviously copyrighted and where the owner may have something to lose by it's use. Just put it back in the article, near a description of his preaching and justify how it portrays the atmosphere of an Appalachian (sort of fringe) preacher. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:34, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I removed the speedy for now, hopefully we can get more input on this. There's a helpdesk or something for that, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 18:39, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm contesting it also. Unfortunately, it is difficult to know whether or not some of the images out there may actually be in the public domain, and we are not IP attorneys with the resources to discover the exact status. I also noticed an image being used by a school here that also seems to be a publicity shot, and wonder if that one would also be usable. I'm not sure who to contact there to even find out. • Astynax talk 18:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I've got to run at the moment, feel free to swap it back into the article. I really don't have a clue here. Man, that one of him with the snakes would be perfect, I wonder if fair use would cover it since it's the only one of him with snakes? Mark Arsten (talk) 18:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
That is a great one. Completely different. Doesn't show the sleaziness of the other, but much better photo and shows his charisma. Maybe they'd let you use it. (They don't say where its from.) After all, it's on a site that's explaining research. Or a "great" fair use rationionale. Somewhere there's a write up on how to write those things. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:59, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I can't find a place to put it in the article. Since it's from 1947 it would have to go in the section that already has an image. MathewTownsend (talk) 19:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I suppose that it could go in the Legacy section, but only if we can determine that it is either public domain or other rationale that will allow its use. I couldn't find anything on the site that spelled-out usage restrictions for images appearing on the site, or a contact who could tell us about the image. • Astynax talk 19:31, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I've restored the original image in the article for the present. They are very demanding of images that appear in FAC, because of several past cases where Featured Articles have been slammed for containing copyrighted material. In this case, I think that there is a solid Fair Use rationale, and additionally it is not at all clear (to me) that the image was not originally created for wide public distribution. • Astynax talk 19:31, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok then, I guess we'll go with that one. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

The NFCC are clear that "[n]on-free content is not used in a manner that is likely to replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media" (NFCC#2). This is a copyrighted image from a newspaper; the original market role was to show the likeness of the individual. Pictures like this are normally only acceptable when commenting on the picture, as opposed to what is depicted, and for a time there was a speedy deletion criteria for cases similar to this. Now, as has been pointed out, this is an older picture, and so the issue is less pressing, but the NFCC do not actually differentiate between new and old- just free and non-free. If we have publicity photos which were released for wide distribution, the use of one them would not be contrary to NFCC#2. As such, unless there's a particular reason why this image is preferable NFCC-wise, I think the publicity photo would be the best choice. J Milburn (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Running out the door at the moment, but I think the picture Astynax linked to on the St. George's site is actually not Hensley--it looks more like Dewey Chafin to me. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:51, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Why can't you use File:George Hensley headshot.jpg at least? MathewTownsend (talk) 20:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Ehh, I guess I could use that, even though it kinda looks like he has leprosy or vitiligo or something. I'd like to get it ok'd with J Milburn first. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:33, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
      • If that's just a family photo released or a purpose-taken publicity photo, then that would be absolutely fine NFCC#2-wise. A slight reduction in resolution would help with NFCC#3 and probably improve the look a little. J Milburn (talk) 22:10, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
        • I've uploaded a lower-res version. J Milburn (talk) 22:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
          • Ok, thanks for all your help with this, I've re-added it to the article. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Just here to say that your edit summary literally made me laugh out loud. (And that I'm a little sad about the other picture getting axed – it was so good!) Accedietalk to me 00:11, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
I take it you mean this one? I'm glad I could make you laugh today. Actually, that was kinda funny. It was a shame to lose such a picture, but one needs to keep a sense of humor when dealing with all the detailed criteria at FAC--have you seen this video? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Ahahaha, no, I hadn't seen that! En dashes... hehe...
Hey, speaking of, are you going to Wikimania this year? Steven Walling and I submitted a talk on editor motivations, culled from interviews with a bunch of FAC writers. Might be of interest to you. Accedietalk to me 00:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
You know, I actually have been thinking about it--it sounds like something I might like and it would be nice to see some Wiki-people in person. I guess I'll have to check on my available vacation time and so on, will try to get around to doing that. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:37, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Do it! It'll be great to meet you :) Accedietalk to me 00:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

inre this discussion

I do appreciate that as the verifiable directorial debut of a notable person, this article meets a criteria of WP:NF, and that it does have coverage... but I ask that you take a look at this edit and consider that a "redirect" is pretty much okay for now just so long as there is no prejudice toward a recreation of the article if/when more sources become available AND as long as the returned article be properly sourced and maintain a properly neutral tone. Reasonable? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Interesting article

I think Jesse L. Brown is interesting, as the subject represents an important milestone in black history. You may enjoy reading it, if only to get that wizard out of your head. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:40, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Not kooky enough for Mark. He's only interested if there is some kind of weird angle! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I hope he does like it. Not everything can be kooky. But if he wants something odd, he should check out the plot of Saman Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:59, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. My GAs have been piling up recently, but FAC... a wasteland Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:05, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I hadn't heard of Brown before, that does look interesting. I've been meaning to work on a military history article since that project gives people a lot of help polishing articles, one of the few wikiprojects that actually does anything anymore... My new realization has been that I should rely on peer review as much as possible, looking at some of the most prolific FA writers it does seem like they get a lot of input at peer review. But yes, Saman does look like an interesting one, I haven't really worked on any book articles much, just to create some stubs here and there. This whole Kony 2012 business just gave me the idea of working on articles about African warlords or something, that's about as far from the Klan as one can get! Mark Arsten (talk) 04:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Some articles go quite quickly at FAC, while some, like Brown, go quite slowly. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:George Hensley headshot.jpg


Thanks for uploading File:George Hensley headshot.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:35, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that was kinda an epic fail on my part. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

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  • Guess who's back / back again / botty's back / tell a friend. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I have been getting sloppy, but when I'm working on a draft I don't tend to check for dabs, only when I get to polishing it up. That's why I like to work in sandboxes. But then I forget about them... Mark Arsten (talk) 15:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
  • You're not the only one. I think I have two or three started but since abandoned. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


He has persisted.[10] What should I do? (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I think the next step would be to discuss the contents of the edits that you would like to make with him on his talk page or the articles' talk pages. Registering an account would be a good idea, as well. Hope it goes well, Mark Arsten (talk) 19:42, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
The problem is that he reverts whatever edits I make. He left no edit summary. There's no clue what I can discuss with this person. (talk) 20:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Have you tried asking him on his talk page? Mark Arsten (talk) 22:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
But there's no clue what he disagrees with. He basically undoes whatever I do. There's no specific reason. (talk) 16:00, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Both of us were reported at 3RR.[11] (talk) 17:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

GA Thanks

On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for your contributions to William S. Sadler, which has fairly recently achieved WP:GA status.

Symbol support vote.svg This user helped promote the article William S. Sadler to good article status.

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:08, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, you're welcome! Mark Arsten (talk) 20:11, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:George Went Hensley preaching.JPG


Thanks for uploading File:George Went Hensley preaching.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:37, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, go ahead--it should be deleted now. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that one isn't great either... Mark Arsten (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
IMO, this img looked better on Hensley article. Also, it can't be in Snake handling due to WP:FAIRUSE "contextual significance", mainly no snakes ;)--Redtigerxyz Talk 18:07, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
It did look better on Hensley, but after all the work that has been put into the article it would be a shame to miss the promotion on a technicality. But, at least our Hensley headshot isn't the worst image on Wikipedia, File:Elof Erickson.jpg might take that crown... Mark Arsten (talk) 18:14, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm... That looks like the ghost of Erickson... ;)--Redtigerxyz Talk 18:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
lol, I should add that image to Ghost or something. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:21, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


CRM.png The Content Review Medal of Merit  
Mark, thank you for all of your fine work and useful commentary at FAC. I know the nominators value your input. Laser brain (talk) 14:59, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks so much for the medal, that means a lot. I'm glad I got involved at FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:01, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
I am soon going for another FAC for Ahalya. No matter it becomes a FA or not, you deserve this for improving the article and bringing all your great editor friends in to improve it further. Redtigerxyz Talk 18:21, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
  • You're welcome, it's great to see this kind of article getting brought to top-quality. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

resource request

Hi Mark,

I've uploaded a copy of the article that you requested at the resource exchange. You can find a link to the article on that page.

Best, GabrielF (talk) 23:51, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the talk page message too. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:13, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

A Free Ride

I have withdrawn the nom for further improvement. Please discuss in the talk page of the article and give your suggestions. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 04:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, will do. You might want to open up a peer review, as well. FAC is a tough place--hope you take another shot! Mark Arsten (talk) 05:04, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Opened a peer review. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 06:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Hey, the discussion is archived by a bot. Do you have any idea why? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 10:06, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, not sure why, that is odd. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Thank for the reverts. The bot gone mad, I've informed his owner. Cheers! --SupernovaExplosion Talk 15:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Jesse L. Brown FAC

I've fixed all of your suggestions on this FAC. Let me know if you have any other comments here. Thanks again for your review! —Ed!(talk) 00:02, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, I'll review the changes shortly. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:05, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


So where's the nomination? I'm itching to review. I have a debt of honour, after all. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:44, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, that one. Well, I finished the bulk of the research and the article is basically written, but it needs a lot of copyediting and probably some reorganization. I just had an idea for a new article to work on though, so I guess I'll take a little time to start building that one before I do any good article nominations. If you haven't noticed, I like starting projects much more than finishing them... Mark Arsten (talk) 00:53, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Just so long as you don't like starting reviews more than finishing them. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Urk. My suggestion is to put a blurb or two about resistance to the snake handling movement, including legal resistance. That would tie in with the picture and better pass the NFCC. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll try and have a look, although for peer reviews I'm not exactly world class. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, just post what you would have if you were reviewing it at FAC--that will probably be helpful. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Sounds alright. I'll hop on it tomorrow after I'm finished translating Soedjatmoko from English to Indonesian (I smell a sixth FA...). The head of Wikimedia Indonesia told me to stop throwing books her way, and MissingNo. was too difficult as 90% of the terms were not on the Indonesian Wikipedia. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, how is the coverage of Pokemon on Mark Arsten (talk) 15:42, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Worse than ours. Okay, I'm out. My bed is calling. I should hopefully have a PR finished by tomorrow night my time, depending on how much time I spend with the guy from the Javanese Wikipedia tomorrow ("v", not "p") Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:45, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I wonder how often those two are mixed up. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Considering 80% of English speakers don't know there is a Javanese language, quite often they think they hear a "p" instead of the "v". Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:03, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Done the review. Have a laugh on me. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
    • Hey, thanks for the review and the copyedits--you are a pretty good peer reviewer. Also, why is it always Japan... Mark Arsten (talk) 14:39, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


Samuel L Jackson at San Diego ComicCon 2008.jpg (talk) 03:56, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello, nice to see you today, Mr. Jackson. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:58, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • I've had with these motherf*****g posts on this motherf*****g page! Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:24, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's pretty much my response sometimes. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

This is a note to let the main editors of Voluntary Human Extinction Movement know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on March 24, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/March 24, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Logo for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement is an environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of mankind. VHEMT supports human extinction primarily because it would prevent environmental degradation. The group states that a decrease in the human population would prevent a significant amount of man-made human suffering. The extinctions of non-human species and the scarcity of resources required by humans are frequently cited by the group as evidence of the harm caused by human overpopulation. VHEMT was founded in 1991 by Les U. Knight, an activist who became involved in the environmental movement in the 1970s and thereafter concluded that human extinction was the best solution to the problems facing the Earth's biosphere and humanity. Knight publishes the group's newsletter and serves as its spokesperson. Although the group is promoted by a website and represented at some environmental events, it relies heavily on coverage from outside media to spread its message. Many commentators view its platform as unacceptably extreme, though other writers have applauded VHEMT's perspective. In response to VHEMT, some journalists and academics have argued that humans can develop sustainable lifestyles or can reduce their population to sustainable levels. Others maintain that, whatever the merits of the idea, because of the human reproductive drive mankind will never voluntarily seek extinction. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Whoa, my first TFA--all hands on deck, all hands to action stations! Mark Arsten (talk) 23:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Congrat! --SupernovaExplosion Talk 00:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, this is pretty cool. Let's see if it stirs up some controversy... Mark Arsten (talk) 00:26, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Add "mouth-to-anus" somewhere there. Sure will get hearts pumping. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:54, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, people do get excited when there is talk about anuses on the main page. Part of me wants to get some proctology-related article up to featured status just to see what happens... Mark Arsten (talk) 02:00, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that is good to hear, thanks for pointing those out. I'll have to keep my eyes out for more. So far there hasn't been much in the way of vandalism, I'm a bit surprised. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:13, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png VHEMT on the main page, woo! Congrats and cheers :) Accedietalk to me 21:01, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, this has been --not as much vandalism as I had expected to see. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Plant rights

Way to be a typical self-righteous wiki contributor, who doesn't even notice retarded mistakes in an article when editing out the vandalism. Is contributing to the world's knowledge by having ladyballs and no life working out well for you? Oh, and have you noticed that even on talk pages, your style of writing is insipid and uninspired? I mean there's a lack of flair and then there's too much time spent being neutral, and I'd guess you never exactly had much flair in the first place. Anyway have fun editing the biggest repository of knowledge for high-school students and people who are going to fail their degrees. Your work is very important, do not leave your basement, et cetera, et cetera. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

It is a very interesting topic. I was thinking of doing some work in this article. Since you are interested in various topics including minority movements or view, you might be interested in developing this article. If you start working on it, I can join to improve it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SupernovaExplosion (talkcontribs)

Very interesting, I hadn't seen that article before--I'll take a look, but it sounds like the type of thing that I'd be interested in. I recall hearing about a bill in Switzerland or somewhere a few years back that would have recognized "the dignity of plants" or something similar, can't quite place it now. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
In Google Search, this article in RationalWiki comes first. It has lot of information, including the Switzerland bill. There is even an Universal Declarations of Plant Rights! --SupernovaExplosion Talk 02:38, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a pretty funny site sometimes. I'll have to start reading up on this soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi Mark. I just posted the above (it pre-existed, but as a one sentence stub) and will be going to DYK. Would you mind taking a quick look for anything glaring?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that looks pretty cool. Sure, I'll try to go over it later today. Mark Arsten (talk) 12:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Mark. I don't know why but I never remember to use the convert template.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:46, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I forgot to do so myself on a regular basis. The article looks pretty good though, not too much I could do. I wish it had caught on... it looks pretty fun. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:53, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Sacrifice (2008)‎

I saw a TV program that said this wrestling is fantastically popular worldwide and especially in the UK. I wonder why there's no interest on WP. I've worked the article over a little more. MathewTownsend (talk) 16:04, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

That is a very good question. There's a stereotype that only rednecks and so on like wrestling, (i.e. W.T.F.) but I don't really buy that--I had an accounting professor back in college who watched it religiously. I hear so much talk about how Wikipedia is 99% (or whatever) male and how "male topics" get so much coverage, but then I see the lack of quality articles on things like wrestling and pornography and I really wonder how true that is. Anyway, thanks for all your help with the article, I'm sure Will really appreciates it as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ahalya/archive2: Ahalya

Thanks for the "in traditional Hinduism" suggestion. Much clearer. --Redtigerxyz Talk 18:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

No problem, oddly enough, I'm bringing someone to the airport tomorrow for a trip they're taking to India. They were in India the last time Ahalya was at FAC too--quite a coincidence. I'm taking one more read through the article and then I'll comment on the talk page (thus far it looks supportable). Mark Arsten (talk) 18:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. Have replied to them. --Redtigerxyz Talk 18:22, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your support. Is it OK if I strike out the Comments and write Support besides it for clarity? --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:15, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Sure, I can do that. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Once I decide that I want to make an article, I try try till I succeed ... :)--Redtigerxyz Talk 17:16, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
That's the spirit! Mark Arsten (talk) 17:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
You got one before I did, so I award you this. Lucasoutloud (talk) 23:29, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey thanks, this is a good encouragement to do more anti-vandal work. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:30, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Dan Leno

The article on Dan Leno has been nominated for Featured Article consideration here. Since you participated in the Peer Review of the article, I thought you might like to comment there, and we would welcome your comments, if you have time. Happy editing! -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:19, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh excellent. I look forward to reading the article again, thanks for the note. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:20, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Indonesian Wikipedia

This is disgusting. 9 days on the front page as TFA and it peaked at 300 views? Argh! Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:26, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Aww, man, that is too bad--but I bet that those who did read it really appreciated it. I wonder why there are so few views on Mark Arsten (talk) 03:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Lack of socialisation, maybe. As I've mentioned before, it only has 40 editors with more than a hundred edits a month. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:41, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I would think there would be more, seeing as Indonesia is such a big country. It must be tough getting wikis popular though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:47, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
  • It's the fact that they prefer instant results... work makes them unwilling to do it. Also, a lot of Indonesians prefer reading the English Wikipedia as it is more complete. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:49, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
  • That's probably a big factor, I see a number of people contributing to who aren't terribly skilled in English. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:56, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Tell me about it... when they're not copy-pasting copyvio text in Indonesian to the English Wikipedia like at Garin Nugroho. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:54, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

VHEMT quote removal & guideline query


I noticed you [removed my edit] where I added the following:

to the Ideology section of the VHEMT article, citing that it "alls afould of the guidelines at WP:MOSQUOTE". I'm just wondering in what way, specifically, you think it falls afoul of those guidelines.



-- TyrS  chatties  04:00, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh hi, thanks for not making fun of the typo in my edit summary :) Under the MOSQUOTE shortcut, if you scroll down to the Block quotations section, it mentions that the {{cquote}} should be avoided in articles. Also, generally speaking, only long quotes are blocked. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 04:08, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation.
I guess I was putting that quote in there as a pull quote, and therefore that {{cquote}} seemed appropriate to me.
Unfortunately the guideline doesn't really talk about non-poetic/lyrical short quotes.
And is it mainly a formatting-type problem? I mean, do you have any objection to using the quote itself there?
Thanks Mark! -- TyrS  chatties  06:12, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
That is an interesting quote, do you know if it appears in any of the secondary sources though? Mark Arsten (talk) 12:20, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Not that I know of, but surely one quote from a primary source is ok (particularly when the source is stated right there in the main text), since the 30-odd others are non-primary. It just seems to me like a really good way to sum up VHEMT's ideology, as well as add a bit of visual interest to the page.
-- TyrS  chatties  02:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
I really try to avoid primary sources as much as I can, the amount we have was a begrudging compromise on my part--but, alas, I do not own the article. The best thing for you to do would be to start a discussion on the talk page of the article, just propose the text you wish to add and why, and then hopefully a few editors will weigh in. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I actually think that, as a pull-quote, that little sentence was really good, for the reasons I mentioned (i.e. the article needs some visual variety, and that short sentence sums up VHEMT's ideology nicely). There are currently only 4 primary source references amongst 31, which doesn't seem disproportionate to me, and this one has its source right there in the text, so it's even more transparent. I'm really not convinced that it did fall afoul of WP:MOSQUOTE. -- TyrS  chatties  12:48, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

(I've just started a discussion on the talk page, as you suggested. Thanks Mark. Sincerely -- TyrS  chatties  13:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC) )

Alright, thanks for opening a section on that. I'll try to weigh in when I get a chance. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 13:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Congrats on Hensley FA

I was going to wake bright and early to check Tuesday night's promotions, then give YOU the news. But you beat me to it. Thanks and congratulations! • Astynax talk 18:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

lol, thanks, hopefully you can sleep in tomorrow :) Mark Arsten (talk) 18:22, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Good job and congrats! Allens (talk | contribs) 14:37, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, it felt great to finally get that promoted. Thanks for all your help at PR and the first FAC, you really did a lot. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Quite welcome... Allens (talk | contribs) 15:09, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

re advice

I answered on my talk page. The more I think about it, I am driven to conclude that biographies are best when they are character driven, and the "views" would spring from the character (if that makes sense)! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:39, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


Seems he was a sockpuppet... interesting. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:28, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh whom? He certainly had a lot of knowledge, it will be a shame to lose that. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:34, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh, it looks like he was User:Jack Merridew? Interesting, I think Jack was active before my time, but I recall seeing some threads about him and trying to figure out what the big deal was. He was from your neck of the woods, wasn't he? Well, whatever his misdeeds were, I will always be thankful that he put me on the right path, for it was he that introduced me to the truth of {{sfn}} & efn, and convinced me to forsake my previous ways. Much like that radio host I just read about who threw away all of his porno after visiting Mecca. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
  • According to the category on his user page, Jack Merridew (here too). It's a shame, Jack and his puppets seem to enjoy helping other editors and then... well, he calls attention to himself being a puppet (using this account, this time). Example: this, this, and this. Odd. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, not that I support socking, but it's nice that he socks to help people, rather than socking to disrupt things, at least. I'll go listen to Free Bird once in his honor. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:56, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Agree Alarbus was very helpful. He clarified to me the sfn stuff and I was planning to ask him more questions. I think he was an asset and I'm sorry to see him go. MathewTownsend (talk) 16:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Alarbus "retired" but I don't think he's blocked. Is he? Nothing shows that he is that I can see. MathewTownsend (talk) 17:00, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Nevermind. He was just now blocked.[14] MathewTownsend (talk) 17:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Huh, that is odd. I wonder if they saw your note? Anything having to do with SPI et al dreadfully confuses me, might as well be magic. But perhaps we haven't seen the last of him...
  • BTW, Rosenberg is at FAC now, I recalled the other day that that article is where we first ran into each other. At first I thought you were going to give me a real hard time about it and almost withdrew the article--glad I didn't! Mark Arsten (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


Are you any good with categories? I can't for the life of me figure out how to classify Fiksimini Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:05, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that is a tricky one to categorize. I added indonesian literature since it somewhat relates to that (and removed a red linked category), it's tough since it's twitter based and all. P.S. facepalm! Mark Arsten (talk) 14:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Facepalm? There's a template for that. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
I added a category to Fiksimini. How about that! MathewTownsend (talk) 23:02, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah, that's what I needed! I had put "internet communities" Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
  • By the way, crazy Europeans eh? Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
    • lol, Europeans say that darndest things. The Orgone "cult of sex and anarchy" sounds particularly interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:03, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
      • But a lot of research to get that up to FA. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:14, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
        • Oh yes. From Wilhelm Reich's article: "He began to violate some of the key taboos of psychoanalysis, developing body psychotherapy, using touch during sessions, and treating patients in their underwear to improve their "orgastic potency." Huh, I wonder why that didn't catch on. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:20, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
        • Actually, apparently there are still practitioners of "body psychotherapy" i.e. [15], I wonder, who pays whom in that situation? Mark Arsten (talk) 16:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
          • The top? Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:30, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
            • lol, yeah, I guess that's as good a way to decide as any. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────That's a pretty good article about animal prostitutes, what was going to be your April Fools hook? BTW, be careful, April Fools day is like playing with a loaded gun. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

    • Something about prostitutes roaming Antarctica trading stones for sex with penguins. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:51, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Prostitutes roaming Antarctica, very interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

resource request

Hi Mark,

I've uploaded the four articles you requested on Dr. William Sadler at the resource exchange. You can find links to the articles on that page. Best, GabrielF (talk) 03:02, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Depressing plot summaries

Well, since you had so much fun with Belenggu I'm sure you'll love Jamila dan Sang Presiden. Speaking of depressing, no edit warring on anal people but poor Maria Ulfah Santoso managed to get fully protected for about five minutes. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:16, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh man, why is it always the IPs causing trouble... but that article sounds interesting, prostitution and murder. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:31, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Mhm. Although I agree with Tempo, the plot leaves several questions unanswered Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

not a coincidence

Rosenberg returned to San Francisco in June and the 1887 Constitution of the Kingdom of Hawaii came into being in June. Course, there's probably no sources for that! It a appears lots was going on in Hawaii at the time. There's got to be more info about Rosenberg somewhere! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there were a lot of reasons for the constitution (U.S. hegemony, yada yada yada), but the fact that the King was drafting fresh off the boat fortune tellers as advisers couldn't have helped his cause much! This source and this source both mention the constitution, but there's really know way to know for sure why he left, his health certainly wasn't great, the statute of limitations many have run out in San Fran, etc. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:33, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
I've decided the constitution etc. is irrelevant. It seems that both the King and Rosenberg enjoyed being together, and when the King lost power through the changing constitution, then no more fun for Rosenberg. There's probably a back story, but we'll never know it. MathewTownsend (talk) 19:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
You know, I think you're probably correct. What do you think we should do with the mentions of the constitution in the article? Mark Arsten (talk) 19:50, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Just mention it, as Rosenberg's leaving was probably prompted by the king losing power and not getting his way any more. But that's it. MathewTownsend (talk) 20:11, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok, how's this look? Mark Arsten (talk) 20:20, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
ok, vague enough, as who knows? MathewTownsend (talk) 20:27, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Great, thanks for all your help on this, hopefully the other reviewers will approve, as well. BTW, have you ever considered nominating something for FAC? I bet you'd do a great job with that. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── To me, the lede is all that lis left of Brianbolton's criticisms. It's hard to pick out the salient points without misrepresenting. I think it's as good as it's going to get. You should se the work I put into (the now renamed) Smith Act trials of Communist Party leaders - I completely burned out on the GA review plus subsequent request, until I'm still a babbling idiot from the experience. MathewTownsend (talk) 23:59, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

lol, yeah, there's only so much mental energy you can have. Thanks for your help and appraisal, I'll probably ping Brian again soon. Sometimes I like to do something near-mindless like huggling--you come across some real funny stuff that way too. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:02, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Don't you have to download some stuff for huggling? Does it require IE? (I'm a Firefox man.) MathewTownsend (talk) 00:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
It does require a download, but doesn't require a specific browser. It's kinda fun--it feels good to revert vandalism. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Attention talk page stalkers -- yes, that means you

I could use some help copyediting and polishing William T. Anderson‎, it's fairly long (by my standards) so it's time consuming for me to take multiple passes at it. Feel free to just do a section or something. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

ok, but it's past by bedtime now. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:10, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
lol, yes, you usually aren't editing this late. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:11, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I would, but I just went through Rosenberg Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:02, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, I guess you have an excuse then :) Mark Arsten (talk) 13:40, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
      • And a shorter article to look at >:-D Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
        • I hope I'm wrong on images... you may have to lose them :-/ Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Re:FAC image review?

Was just coming around to do it, but it looks like everything is in order now; as Crisco's started, it seems best to let him finish. Perhaps an explanation on the image page, in addition to the tag, would be worthwhile. J Milburn (talk) 15:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Alright, will do--thanks anyway. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

citations and notes

I think Wehwalt uses the same system of citations/notes as you do on Rosenberg. (e.g. William McKinley) The lately lamented Arabus was an expert on those things. There's a bunch of templates that explain them e.g. Template:Sfnp, Template:Sfn. And you can ask questions on the talk pages. MathewTownsend (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

That's right, I recall seeing that when I reviewed McKinley. It doesn't look like I'm going to get an oppose for them, unless I get a real surprise soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:08, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong with the images. What's holding the thing up? MathewTownsend (talk) 20:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I think it has everything it needs for promotion at this point, it hasn't gotten a source review from Nikkimaria, but she missed my last one and that still got promoted. In any case, I think the delegates are trying to leave FACs open for at least 10 days or something. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
lol, I guess not :) Mark Arsten (talk) 00:09, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


A Barnstar!
A smile for you

You’ve just received a random act of kindness! (talk) 20:30, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I'm very glad to have received this highly selective honor. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


Congrats! Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, That was an action packed 164 hours. Thanks for all your help straightening things out there. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh my, I wonder why that one is taking so long. Want me to create some sockpuppets to support it? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I was wondering what the "just kidding" in your edit summary meant, LOL. Brian has given me some more feedback on my talk page, so somewhat okay. Mind you, after this I'll probably give 1740 Batavia massacre another go. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Glad to hear it, hopefully that one will be quick and easy. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


On Elias Abraham Rosenberg - promoted! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:31, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you called it just a few hours before the promotion--pretty impressive. Thanks for all your help ironing out the tricky parts there. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:34, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
William T. Anderson may be more of a challenge. May I ask what led you to take on this article? What about Bloody Knife? MathewTownsend (talk) 01:09, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Interesting, I hadn't heard of Bloody Knife. Actually what motivated me to work on Anderson's article was the picture of him, one of the most intense glares I've ever seen--much like the famous Che Guevara picture. Then I saw there were only two biographies of him, so I thought it would be easy to research and write (boy was I wrong about that). In any case, I'm nearing GA quality with it, but there's still a lot to do. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:14, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:FOUR for Elias Abraham Rosenberg

Four Award.svg Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on Elias Abraham Rosenberg. TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:23, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:23, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

  • Cool, I wondered if I'd get one of these since it was a redirect when I got to it, good deal. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


Well, I think the article is getting there. Two leaning towards support. BTW, I've replied at the Atheis review. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear it, looks like I won't have to tap into the sockfarm after all. I'll save that for Rfa. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:34, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I better finish the review before some zealous admin indeffs me! Mark Arsten (talk) 01:28, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, that should be interesting. BTW, is there an Indonesian equivalent to the Sacred Cod? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:33, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • No, they (pretend, mostly) to take religion and the word "sacred" seriously over here. So you can't say Holy Mackerel in Massachusetts, it must be Sacred Cod? Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, actually, there is a Holy Mackerel in the state senate--the sacred cod is at the state house. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:40, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Facepalm3.svg Facepalm and the Holy Cow is in Wisconsin... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:55, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Argh, annoying when you know someone passes WP:ACADEMIC but finding biographical resources is nigh impossible. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
    • That is too bad, it sure is hard finding sources on academics sometimes. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:33, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Time to do a bit here, a bit there (i.e. many sources, short article... like Zaskia Sungkar) Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:45, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Yeah, it's too bad when you have a lot of sources but not a lot of article. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:06, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
          • Good enough for now. If I wikilinked every appearance of his name on Wikipedia, there'd be close to 50 backlinks. No thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:51, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

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William S. Sadler

Something remains unexplained about this guy. I listen to this radio station at night that's all about extraterrestrials, etc., although they've never mentioned this guy. Maybe he was before his time? But then you have Freud mixed up in there. And the Kelloggs. Weird. MathewTownsend (talk) 20:08, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on the article, I'm planning on FACing it sooner or later, but I think I need a break from that page for now. I definitely welcome comments about him--what do you think the article is missing? He certainly did run into some very well-known people, kind of a forest gump thing. BTW, did you know that Stevie Ray Vaughan was sort of a follower of Urantia for a while? Mark Arsten (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
well, I should phone into that night time talk show and get his name on the radar. Really, there seems to me a tendency these days toward Sadler's type of thinking. Yeah, he's definitely one of those remarkable people, like Samuel Colt and others; you wonder where they get the energy and the versatility - the sheer ability to promotion. (There's a string of them whose names I can't remember right now!) MathewTownsend (talk) 20:45, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── What's next in your line for FAC? MathewTownsend (talk) 20:56, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Sadler will probably be the next article I nominate, and likely William T. Anderson after him. I'm thinking I might start working on more racism-related articles in the future. Agreed about Sadler, I wish I had a fraction of the energy that he must have had. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:15, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Mr. Anderson

Separated at birth?
Tiberius, eh?

Red pill or green pill? Purple pill says you have one week Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

One week, I should be able to manage that. The picture of him after he died is still around, it's kinda odd, he looks strangely happy in it: [16]. One advantage I have on this article is that I have two pretty thorough books about him, so it's easy to answer questions--basically the opposite of Rosenberg (Although, they potentially could have met). Mark Arsten (talk) 04:10, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, the image is PD now... *hint* Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:20, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I had meant to do that the other day, but got wrapped up in semi-colons or something like that. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Isn't that how it always is on Wikipedia... Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:26, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Hehe shame we ran out of pictures (the rest of our pictures of Shatner are of the "well-seasoned" variety). Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Hehehehe.... Check the WMF blog on Monday morning. There'll be a special surprise for you two :D Accedietalk to me 02:00, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oooh, I can't wait, so mysterious... Mark Arsten (talk) 02:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Shatner will be WMF's spokesperson? Awesome. So. Free. Knowledge. Go. Where. No. Man. Has. Gone. Before. :p Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:46, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Stranger things have happened, oh wait, no, they haven't. P.S. is there anything else you need from me on the GA review? P.P.S. If there is, we should wait a few hours before editing the article, to avoid ECs. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I think I answered your question... Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:59, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
  • You know what's absolutely terrible? Google Ayu Azhari and see what her first five hits are... doubt she feels happy when she Googles herself. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:34, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that really is too bad. Reminds me a bit of the Mimi Macpherson business. Oddly enough, Wikipedia is the first google hit for my name. Mark Arsten (talk) 13:11, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Hmm... Facebook is first for mine :-p. Azhari is notable enough as she received a Citra Award (essentially the Indonesian Oscar). I hope the article couldn't be deleted willy-nilly. As a side note, there's a lot of celebrity junk which I left out. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Well, you did a good deed, providing a better google hit for people who search for her. BTW, I see on there's a picture of her in a headscarf, did she have a religious awakening after her acting days? Mark Arsten (talk) 13:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
          • She's still acting (note the filmography on ID wiki). Good sources were hard to find, so I didn't include the filmography. The headscarf is not necessarily a sign of religiousness, as evidenced by the fact that some people have a fetish for it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
            • Oh yes, that's right. I read that book a few years back, fascinating novel. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:22, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
            • You should check the Rp conversion in her article. Jack Merridew 19:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
              • Thanks Jack, I hate all these zeroes. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
            • lol, rule 34 strikes again :) Mark Arsten (talk) 20:01, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
              • Indeed. There's a DYK for a film showing robot sex coming up. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────U like? :D Accedietalk to me 17:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey that's great. Interesting post too. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:23, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. I don't see why they used a FU image when we have two free ones. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Rigby & Peller

Nice article! JoeSperrazza (talk) 23:43, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I was pretty surprised we didn't have an article on them yet. One would think all lingerie companies would have articles by now, with all the lonely young men editing Wikipedia. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Bring it to DYK! After making it longer, of course Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, that shouldn't be too hard--maybe add some fair use pictures of the royal family in their knickers... Mark Arsten (talk) 00:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • This has been a very odd night, I did my taxes, then uploaded pictures of a mutilated corpse, then wrote about the Queen's panties. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • This is odder. Would you believe 9.7 GB for all text in the English Wikipedia articles? Who would download that? BTW, Chrisye has almost passed :D Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah, will you bring R&P to DYK? Inquiring minds want to know who makes the Queen's knickers! Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think I will, I have a few days though, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • True, five days from creation... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
The description on the first edit of Rigby & Peller made me laugh, especially since I was indeed patrolling new pages. Excellent work! Oxguy3 tc 01:02, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh good, New Page patrolling can be an arduous task, so I figured I'd try to lighten things up a bit. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:12, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

A Beer for You

Bintang Beer by the Beach.jpg Thanks for the Review
Hi Mark, thanks for the review at the recent FA nomination for Chrisye. Your prose edits helped tremendously, and the humour you showed when the review stalled helped me man up. In thanks, I'd like to give you a local brew: Bintang Beer... for the third time! Geez, soon you'll have drunk more of the stuff than me. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • It finally got promoted, hooray! The first FA is always the hardest, or so I hear. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:36, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • As opposed to two in one week? :-p Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, see, after your first one you can get them promoted as quickly as you want--part of the FAC cabal rules. (shh) I'm combing through more pictures of Jesse Washington's burnt body at the moment, I have to keep minimizing the window when anyone walks by--I'm worried they'll think I'm looking at porn... Mark Arsten (talk) 01:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'd much rather they think I'm looking at porn than a lynching... except at work. I work at an elementary school, so neither is a good choice. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:47, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, I guess it would depend where I was, the person that kept walking by would be more tolerant of me investigating lynchings than looking at porn, although people have been quite baffled when I tell them what I'm working on lately. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • An Asian user, or a user in Asia? Hmm... Oh well, somehow Supernova Explosion felt the earthquake and I didn't ... and he's in India! Maybe I'm dead to the earth shaking. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:53, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • It is surprising you did not feel the quake sitting in Indonesia! --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Without looking at a map, you could actually be closer... theoretically. It was pretty far from Sumatra, after all. Not sure which part of India you're in anyways. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • K, looking at this really poor map we are roughly the same distance from the epicentre. Perhaps one of us is about 100km closer Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess that means I'm just dead to earthquakes. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:23, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess I was using "Asian" a bit loosely, besides, where I live it's uncommon to refer to Indians as "Asians" for some reason. That is fascinating about the earthquake, I kept meaning to ask people on Wikipedia about it, but of course kept forgetting. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:55, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, back home "Asians" generally means East Asians, while South Asians is for people from India, Bangladesh, etc. I've heard that in England Asians means people from India though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I always thought in the West, "Asian" refers to Japanese and Koreans. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 02:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • My Bengali friends back in high school said Asian referred to South Asians in England, perhaps because of the colonial period. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • In my observation, Americans refer to anyone with the epicanthic fold as "Asian". Anyone from south Asia is referred to as "Indian" (much to the irritation of Pakistani and Sri Lankan immigrants). Mark Arsten (talk) 02:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that term is common in Windsor as well... just didn't want to offend anyone. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:07, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • So growing up in Windsor, could you hear all the gunshots in Detroit? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:10, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Only every night when I turned on the TV. Mind you, we were never too pleased to pass Eight Mile when my mother decided to get groceries in the US when the Canadian dollar was at par. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:23, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Jesse Washington photos

If you upload these photos to Commons, it will be a great collection in one place. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I really should have uploaded them to commons instead of locally--kind of a dumb move there. Oh well, I guess there is a process for transferring them. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Anti-lynching movement

Just started this page. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 02:47, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow, I can't believe we didn't have that before--that could turn into a pretty large article! The books by Berg and Wood that I used in Jesse Washington might be pretty helpful if you can get previews of them. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:51, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Sacred Cod Peer Review

Hi Mark, Thank you for reviewing Sacred Cod of Massachusetts (review page here) and I have responded to and/or fixed every comment you had. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind combing back through it quickly to see if there are any blatant problems you see before I nominate it at GA. Thank you for your review as it was a giant help. --Found5dollar (talk) 20:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Alright good to hear. I'll try to take another read through soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:36, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

re William T. Anderson

Why can't I get interested in him? What's the hook? MathewTownsend (talk) 00:45, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

For me, the hook was the picture. And psychopaths fascinate me in general. I left out some of the gory details about the torture, do you think I should add some of that in? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Looks like somebody cared about the pagespace. I'm not known as much of a reviewer, but I'm glad to help here. Thanks for asking. BusterD (talk) 01:44, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
That's great to hear, this is a new subject for me, so I probably messed up a lot :) Mark Arsten (talk) 02:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
yeah, some gory details would interest me. Just plain old psychopaths need something more to get my attention, some sort of weird angle.
"Although Union supporters viewed him as incorrigibly evil, Confederate sympathizers regarded him as a hero, possibly owing to their mistreatment by Union forces." - why wouldn't Confederates regard him as a hero, as he was on their side? Just wondering. Isn't that the way war is? MathewTownsend (talk) 16:13, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, good point, that sentence does need more work. What I meant to communicate was that Confederate civilians viewed his depredations as justifiable because they had been treated similarly by the other side. While some of what he did seems like war crimes now, things had progressed to the point in Missouri where that was seen as almost normal. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 13

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Could you check something for me?

Could you check the source for this image for me? I need to verify the image is by a US military personnel for a GA review, but I'm getting a 404 error. The nominator says it works for him. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:54, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm getting a 404 too, so it's not just you. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:18, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
I can access [17] though, mystery solved. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

A Free Ride

I have send you an email. To get the PdF files, please reply to the email. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 00:58, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Done, BTW, did you know this fact about me? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Why did he get after you? Because you reverted his vandalism? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
It was this edit that bugged him, funny thing is, I don't even like that team. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
I've added the harverror script to User:SupernovaExplosion/common.js. But how does it work? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:18, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
It will give you a big red error message if the refs aren't linked right, look at the references in this reversion. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Great. And I have send you the articles. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:27, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Got them, will try to read through them soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:30, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I have expanded the article from the Hoffman source. Check my expansion. It was very difficult to reword Hoffman's wording keeping in mind two thing - 1. it should not be plagiarized, 2. it should not change the meaning. I have worded accordingly. But still review my edit to see whether it needs further copyediting. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:38, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, I'll try to take a look at it later. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:48, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Lecen, again

Hi, Mark. I believe you should let the matter die out. Those two are trying desperately to have me blocked, but it's not only because I opposed Cambalachero's FAC. I've been for the last week correcting many wikilinks that range from Francisco Solano López to Paraguayan War. Cambalachero went mad because I changed "Lopez War", "Triple Alliance War", "Paraguay War" and "War of the Triple Alliance" for "Paraguayan War". Instead of sending me a message to discuss with me whatever he disliked, he simply opened a thread at the "Neutral point of view/Noticeboard‎". Did anyone else reverted my wikilink corrections? No one. Not a single soul complained about it, but him. No content enough, he also opened immediately a move request at Cisplatine War and Platine War calling both names "Brazilian POV" (ignoring the basic fact that the names are based on English written books, not Portuguese written books).

He became even more angry when he saw that both move requests were universally rebuked. In his mind, as well as of his friend MarshalN20's, I'm some kind of leader, capable of creating an army of mindless followers who will do anything I want, including voting along with me. They were not abe to understand that people vote against them because their reasons are always the same: "British POV", "Chilean POV", "Brazilian POV", etc... Both editors hang around mostly in two articles: Falklands War and War of the Pacific. They sincerely believe that anyone who doesn't share their views are doing it because they are defending another country's view. I'm not kidding: another country's view. That's why the "British POV", "Chilean POV", "Brazilian POV" stuff.

It doesn't help that they are Hispanic Americans and I am Portuguese American. You see, they still believe we are in the 18th century, and that there is an ongoing rivalry between Portugal and its colony Brazil and Spain and its countless American colonies. The 21th century didn't hit the door yet. See this last edit of MarshalN20, for example.[18] Is there any excuse to place this piece of text as one big quote? If I had done the same, but let's say, saying that Brazil had kicked Argentina's ass, instead of the contrary, both would be complaining about Brazilian POV.

And lastly, I opposed Cambalachero's FAC (which is the fifth time he nominates it, BTW) because it has serious issues not only with the prose but also with the sources and the information given, as I warned. There are countless books in English about the subject, why he's using solely Spanish written books? Well, that's all. You don't need to reply, I just wanted to explain you what was going on. Cheers, --Lecen (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

It's good to hear from you again, albeit under non-ideal circumstances. It looks like this wikiconflict has been going on for a while now and is a tricky situation. It doesn't help that I'm so ignorant about South American history. I will admit though, some of your comments were quite witty :) Mark Arsten (talk) 00:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
You said at the ANI "Have you tried ignoring him? He might stop if you try that." I hardly believe this might occur. See, I was taking part on a discussion at Talk:Regional power (where I made the Falklands/Maradona ugly child of Perón) and guess who appeared in the last couple of days? MarshalN20. He is obviously wikistalking me (he is showing every single piece of conversation I have with anyone at the ANI!) and for the moment I rather prefer seeing it as an annoyance. But he is getting more and more annoying! He doesn't let the ANI thread to die out, keeps wikistalking me by appearing on articles I controbute and where he doesn't and is keeping a close eye on everything I do. He must have somekind of crush on me. Poor fellow... I like chicks, not Peruvian stalkers. --Lecen (talk) 10:33, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Oddly enough, a half-Peruvian stalker has been in the news a lot in the U.S. lately. Just don't wear a hoodie... Mark Arsten (talk) 17:17, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Good times those when we made jokes and people didn't take them literally. And I'm talking about everything here, not about Peruvian editors. Nowadays anything you say might and will be used against you. We've become editors deeply in fear of the possibility that someone might misrepresent a silly comment and see it as other than what truly is: a mere sily comment. I wonder if someone at the top has realized that Wikipedia has become a poisoned environment. I remember that there was a time when everyone was clearly enthusiastic and happy to help each other. It was different. And in a good way. --Lecen (talk) 23:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Comedy has varieties, and trying to mix insults with comedy has always been seen negatively in any and all formal discussions. I am sure you (and any other Brazilian) would find it insulting if I described the Duke of Caxias as a fat squirrel-faced idiot (not that I actually mean it). Trying to pretend that such kind of hurtful comments are not insulting or "poisoning" to a friendly environment is absurd. So, please quit throwing wood into the fire. If you stopped insulting people and places (even if under the facade of comedy), then you would not have any of these kind of problems. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20 | Talk 23:59, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't talking to you, and it's really scary to see that you're still keeping an eye on whatever I do hre (I know, you'll say you're talking with Mark and that you had his talk page on your watchlist, etc, etc...). However, I'll reply to your comment: no, I wouldn't mind, neither would Brazilians, if someone made jokes about the Duke of Caxias. You see, here in Brazil we have "freedom of speech". No one is burned at the stake in Brazil because he or she made jokes or criticized a historical character. Emperor Pedro I was a horny SOB? Pedro II was an old fart? President Lula is a drunken idiot? Who cares? No one goes crying around "you insulted my nation! Die, you SOB, die!" or blowing themselves up or steals... err... "nationalize" private companies for that. I can't joke on Wikipedia that George Washington lost his teeth by eating his horse or else every single American will try to kill me (although I know that no American would behave like that)? I say "this is ridiculous" and the other guy goes to ANI to complain that he felt insulted? Well, it is indeed ridiculous! Now I see how different Brazil is from its Hispanic-American neighbors. Our culture is waaay different than theirs. I'll watch my mouth next time, I don't want to make the "Defenders of Holy Che and Saint Evita" angry at me. Who knows what they would try to do with me? Force me watch the movie Evita (film) over and over? Oh God, no! No! I bet that anyone reading what I just wrote will see a bunch of silly jokes. But you? You'll save the diff for later, when you'll accuse me of spreading hate against Argentina and whatever other country you might imagine. It's always great to see the Afghans angry at Americans because 4-5 guys took pictures laughing at a dead Afghan suicide bomber. That's a criiime. Americans are eeevil. But the dead Afghan... suicide bomber? What is he? A victim? What an absurd! And I am wrong when I point that nationalists will turn this place into a nightmare worse than it already is? Hah! The Times They Are a-Changin' indeed. --Lecen (talk) 00:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Oddly enough, I had to sit through the Motorcycle diaries a few years ago, it was so boring I became a staunch anti-communist overnight. Perhaps someday there will be a feature film about Wikipedia, Brad Pitt will probably play Newyorkbrad, Sandra Bullock will play SandyGeorgia, and Mark Wahlberg will play me :) Mark Arsten (talk) 02:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Only if Mark Wahlberg could shoot and type at the same time during the movie, which, obviously, would have a tag "Based on true facts" at the start! The sequel would be called "Wikipedia II: battle for the FAC and other ridiculous things no one actually cares about except for Wikipedians", with bigger explosions and huge robots fighting each other! --Lecen (talk) 03:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
And of course, lots of nude scenes... Mark Arsten (talk) 03:31, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Lecen, you're still not getting the point. What makes people happiest is respect, not humor (although a good joke now and then is not bad). "Freedom of Speech" has its limits anywhere in the world (passing Brazil off as a unique place where everyone can say what they please is a very funny joke, especially considering the history of the country). In the view of most Afghans (not all), the suicide bomber is a hero defending his homeland. The bombers themselves think they'll go to heaven right afterwards. In any case, if at any point I seemed to come off as "anti-Brazilian" (which is apparently what ticked you off in the first place), I apologize for that misunderstanding.
Mark, lol. I remember seeing the commercials for Motorcycle Diaries (and that's all I've ever seen of it). I could imagine a Wikipedia movie with an "R" rating ("for content unsuitable for minors"). Hahaha. Regards.--MarshalN20 | Talk 03:40, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


I got into the Regional Power article after checking the Flag of Mexico article and checking my conversation with Alex Covarrubias (which is still there, in case you doubt me: [19]). As my edits in the article show, my actions have been towards its improvement; that Lecen was in there (not surprisingly making insulting comments about Argentina) was a matter of coincidence. As Lecen himself writes, my notifications of his actions outside of AN/I all had to do with the AN/I matter. Therefore, no reason exists for Lecen to accuse me of "stalking" him, much less to turn this into a sexual matter ("I like chicks, not Peruvian stalkers"), which I consider yet another personal attack. I also do not appreciate, Mark, your insinuation that I would murder Lecen. I came to your talk page to ask you to please check the Pisco Sour article, but after reading this discussion find it unecessary given that you seem to have already settled your thoughts about me as a "bad" wikipedian. I apologize for taking valuable space from your talk page. Best Regards.--MarshalN20 | Talk 22:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

1740 Batavia massacre

Greetings Mark, this is a notice to let you know that 1740 Batavia massacre, which you have previously reviewed or copyedited, has been nominated at FAC. Should you be willing to review the article, feedback is welcome at the nomination page. Thank you. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, good to see that you're taking another shot. Will try to stop by. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I told myself I'd take a two week break from FAC, so I don't think I'll be able to get to it until the 19th or so. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Alrighty, doubt it will be promoted or failed before then. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Era-dating style changes

Thank you for your help in dealing with the ERA-warrior (who left a charming note on my talk page). It is good to know someone else is keeping watch over these things. All the best, Hertz1888 (talk) 20:28, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

No problem, such things can be vexing--and it's always good to have help. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

resource request - lynching articles

Hi Mark,

I've uploaded the four articles about lynching that you requested at the resource exchange. You can find links to the articles at that page.

Best, GabrielF (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Rigby & Peller

Orlady (talk) 08:05, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

  • Just wondering why undergarments are called unmentionables in the DYK hook? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 08:53, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I tried to think of a really proper/aristocratic way of saying it, I couldn't imagine the queen saying something as brutish as "underwear". I see it kicked up a bit of a storm at WP:ERRORS, oh well, I had a feeling in the back of my mind someone might get upset about it, couldn't put my finger on why though. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:51, 16 April 2012 (UTC)


Ahalya crop.jpg Ahalya says Thanks
Thanks for helping the article improve to FA standards by your copyedits, constructive criticism and bringing in many of your great editor friends to the article !! Redtigerxyz Talk 17:30, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Murder of Udin

Thanks for the review... I didn't expect the "kerfuffle"; that's now easily my most controversial GAC. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Ha, that was very smooth compared to my least favorite GA nom... What a joy that one was, it's funny to me now, but I was seriously irritated at the time. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that's like double what I have. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, but you have like 5x the FAs. BTW, I'm planning on taking Belenggu to FA eventually Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:15, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, I guess so--I got a lot of help though, that's the secret. Interesting about Belenggu, hope it works out well. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I'm gonna be rearranging the themes section and try and expand that (per the Peer Review). And then to find a really good copyeditor... Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Also, seems the debate over at Talk:Murder of Udin isn't dying down... Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:35, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Hopefully this won't require admin assistance, but it looks like it's heading in that direction. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Any actual grown-up debate is long over. One editor with an obvious vendetta who is ignoring consensus and policy is not a threat to an article's stability, any unconstructive changes they make can simply be reverted as necessary. Your article's grand (and in safe hands, I don't like seeing idiots win). GRAPPLE X 05:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the help, this is quite an odd situation. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:41, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed, thanks a lot Grapple. Also, agree it is quite odd. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:52, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

free popcorn

  • So do you have something you want me to look at? How's Kirk's cousin coming? Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:32, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Actually, I don't have anything for review at the moment, thanks for asking though. I should have a GA nomination or two up within a couple weeks, though. Both going to be about racism in Texas, oddly enough. One is a pretty grisly article, so you might want to skip that one. Just realized that I use the word "murder" in that article, hope it doesn't lead to an edit war... Mark Arsten (talk) 16:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
      • Dibs. GRAPPLE X 16:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Thanks, that would be awesome... you always show up at just the right time! I've got a couple more books to flip through and then I'll just copyedit it once or twice and it should be good to go. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
            • So I'm not allowed to look at the lynching? Meh, it's okay. I'm still waiting on Mr. Dragon. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
              • Well, you can look if you want to, I just didn't think you'd be interested. I haven't done much on the Klan-man lately, I should get on that. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
                • Oh, I'll look... just won't touch. Same thing as if I were at the mall and a beautiful woman walked by... not like they're comparable Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:11, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
                  • Mrs. Crisco has trained you well, I see. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:35, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
                    • Arf! (But she still won't watch Star Trek... I got her addicted to CSI though, and she can handle Psych. I still need to train her) Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
                      • Nothing brings the world together quite like CSI :) Mark Arsten (talk) 23:41, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


Can you give these new bits a copyedit? Nice to see you back at FAC, btw... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:04, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

  • Also, he may have a new single if they release that... medley? No matter what, I want it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:06, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll take a look at it. Yes, I dipped my toe back in the water at FAC today. I'll try to get to the Batavia massacre once I finish my Bloody Mary. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:00, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


Heh-heh, I didn't know I was starting a trend with my last nom... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't notice that. Quite a remarkable coincidence! Mark Arsten (talk) 04:55, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Lol, I noticed that when I promoted Bloody Bill to GA... interesting... Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:58, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Now that I look, the William Anderson dab page has a ton of people on it, wonder how many we can get to FA? Mark Arsten (talk) 05:02, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I did an image review for you :-) You know, QPQ and all that. Two small matters. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:10, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Cool, I think I fixed them. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Giving article another go

I tried fixing what the reviewer mentioned and opened a peer review along with nominating it again. I figured that opening a peer review wouldn't matter because people who are partial to the article can't review it and because good articles usually take a while to be reviewed. I am hoping that someone will be able to give me suggestions on the S&Man article. SL93 (talk) 20:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi SL93, I am familiar with the person who reviewed your article, she probably has a higher standard for GAs than any other regular reviewer. I've had several Good Article nominations reviewed by User:Crisco 1492 and User:MathewTownsend, they're both pretty friendly and helpful. I suggest you drop them a note asking if they'd be interested in reviewing/helping out. Good luck! Mark Arsten (talk) 20:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Just looked at the plot, you might have luck asking User:SupernovaExplosion for help, he works on a lot of sex/nudity-related content. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
I asked Crisco for help. Not everyone will help on a topic like this, but it is first and foremost a documentary. I have the stomach to work on the article, but not the stomach to actually watch something like this. If Crisco is not interested, I will see if SupernovaExplosion can help. SL93 (talk) 21:04, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
I can identify, I've been working on the Lynching of Jesse Washington lately, it kind of resembles a real-life snuff film. It's been tough to find people with the stomach to help on that one. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:08, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, so I'm gaining a reputation as a sex expert :) --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:22, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Lol, I guess you are. Or maybe that's what she said? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Why I can't write featured-quality prose...

... saying that I-Pop – his term for the genre – was an evolution of K-Pop, just like K-Pop had been an evolution of J-Pop ... - What now? Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

  • BTW, I see you driving editors to my talk page... good thing I'm not feeling bitey (actually, I'll be glad to review after he deals with the issues I saw with about 30 seconds worth of looking at the article) Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh man, that is quite the doozy. Which reminds me, you asked me to look at Chrisye again, will do. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:28, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'd much rather another article, but Chrisye is less work. :-P BTW, I left prose comments at the A-class assessment Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, that's right. I'll try to get to both of them soon. Working on the Wizard for now, I think it's heading in the right direction. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I noticed. Hmm... And if we got KKK to FA? Ooh, just imaging the hate... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:36, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • As it turns out, someone beat us to it. That was way back when, back when it was possible to get articles on well-known topics to featured status. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, we helped ensure that VHEMT is more well known. How many hits did you have? Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I think we hit 90,000 in one day, pretty amazing. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Reversion2.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
For your vandalism-related work around Wikipedia. You've beaten me to the revert at least 2 times today. Keep up the good work! -- Luke (Talk) 02:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the barnstar, I find that it's annoying when someone beats to to a revert--but good to know that others are watching. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg talking
Thank you for speaking to editors as to people, with attention, respect and humour, even on difficult topics and in disputes, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:27, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks so much for the barnstar and your kind words, I really appreciate that. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:44, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I wonder...

What would happen if this were TFA... can you imagine the complaints? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I wonder first about today's TFA and asked some questions ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:35, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Once upon a time

I hate you so bad. I'm trying to update the once upon a time page and you keep accusing me of vandalism. Nazi scum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I meant to revert you for adding uncited content, you should add a link to a reliable source when adding information. Your edits were't vandalism, until you started calling me a nazi in the article, at least. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:47, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

You accused me of vandalism before then. And your control of information is quite Nazi like if I do say so myself. And I do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:49, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

My apologies then, I shouldn't have left a vandalism note, I meant to leave a "Please cite content" note. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Help Copyedit

Could you do some copyedit in the article Bathroom sex? I am not good at this task, so help needed. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 03:08, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

lol, that is such a funny article. I'm impressed at the things you come up with. Will take a look at it. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm going to start writing this on all my articles--unbelievably that wasn't reverted for 3.5 years. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, odd indeed. Inserted in July 2008. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 03:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
A quick glance looks like the articles in Category:Indian family names are in bad shape. But even so, 3.5 years? That is a long time for something flagrant like that to be in an article. Jawanda for instance, that's all over the place. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:25, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • If SE likes sex, he should check out the Muria people. They have an interesting tradition. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Very interesting. Thanks for creating this article, I was not aware of them. Such openness and honesty in sexual relation is rare in India. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 07:40, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that would make for an interesting life. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:59, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Prehensile tails would be funner though Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:10, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Even better, lets get that up to featured states and have it as TFA, or maybe not. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:15, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, WikiProject Sexuality could use some Spanish fly Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, that really did make me laugh. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:20, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah the article will definitely be a FA if going in the right direction. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 15:32, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Speaking of which, I just saw via an ani report that there was a bonobo-sex related dispute. What an odd coincidence. Almost enough to make me reconsider my hatred of Monday mornings. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
You should check this article for the Sex positions section. I have developed the section, but have difficulty understanding "Man on the ledge" and "The spider" positions. Could you expand these two? --SupernovaExplosion Talk 15:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Not sure I understand it much better than you, it's not that clearly written. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


Thanks very much for the copy-edit, review and kind comments. It is very much appreciated. I've replied on the FAC page. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, I'll try to finish my read-through later today. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:01, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Don't forget to get pictures of a certain star's new tattoo! Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, actually, I switched the image from two women in thongs to a women wearing low cut pants. I think it's just long enough for me to DYK it. Maybe I'll even get the lead hook, it would probably be vandalized like there's no tomorrow though... might be interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, and thanks for reading so carefully an article on something like cricket! It is always an immense help to have the comments of a "non-cricketer". Sarastro1 (talk) 19:29, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome, it was nice to read such a well-written article. I've tried watching Cricket online a few times, so I think I have the bare minimums down, but there's still so much to learn! Mark Arsten (talk) 19:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks from me too... just let's not have the nomination too crowded, okay? BTW, I'd appreciate if you could give S&Man a quick copyedit before I promote it Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:24, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Tramp stamp

Word ... ? Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:40, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good, do you think the sentence about the SNL skit is clear? I just had someone read the article and they were a bit confused by it. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:47, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
BTW, did you see the mess on ANI today? Kiefer is gone for a couple weeks. Oddly enough, I was alerted to the Lower back tattoo article via an ANI report, someone there had been accused of trolling it. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • The SNL thing is clear, IMHO. Saw the Kiefer thing... damn WikiDrama everywhere. Thank God I'm low profile... ish Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Haha, this is funny! --SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:08, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that dif is so funny I just had to share it with people somehow. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:09, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah... you know, Wikipedia users have a very... unique sense of humour Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • So I'm sloven. Geez, I think the dictionary just insulted me... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:39, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • And dictionaries are usually so polite... Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I've politely replied at FAC. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, I'll check it out again later. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


When you posted a message to me about email, was I being asked something? (I didn't really understand it.) Enlightenment? Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 01:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I had e-mailed you (or tried to) a few weeks back and never got a response. It was about the educational project, if I recall, nothing terribly important. BTW, I've almost gotten Hiram Wesley Evans ready for a GA nomination, I got the idea to work on it in a discussion on your talk page, I think. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:23, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I thought the inspiration was from my doomed FP nomination Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I got an email but not from you and not about the education report, seems like (?) And not about anything doomed about Crisco. I'm a dunce when it comes to actually understanding things. Will look at Hiram Wesley Evans again. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:40, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • This nomination was doomed. I'm hopefully not. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:42, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, tried again with the email. I probably would have gotten Evans submitted quicker, but I got up to full steam working on the lynching article, quite distracting. I'll probably be pushing ahead toward FAC with it, I got one of the final two books I need today. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:55, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I blame you

For the love of all that is sacred don't open this if someone is watching.

NSFW: I blame you for this... but if I restore it I can only blame myself. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Amazing! Added it to the photographer's page. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 11:55, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Mhmm, that's, uhh, interesting. I'm going to go somewhere else now... Mark Arsten (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, SE says that there is a journal article about those photographs. DYK? :D Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • That may lead to a literal supernova explosion... BTW, Cracked has an article about Grammar up--I doubt most of our FA reviewers would agree with it though. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll put the request in at RX. Grapple, could you send me a full version by email? No highbeam yet. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:44, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ooh, SE, the article in the Journal of Sexual Medicine had pictures! Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • This is going to turn into one of the odder articles on the entire project--but at least it will be well sourced! Mark Arsten (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Email sent, Crisco. Does anyone else need it? GRAPPLE X 23:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm impressed actually, good job with that. That's a really rare subject for an article, not too many of those coming along. One minor complaint: you use "rudimentary" a lot though. Not that it's easy to describe malformed genitalia though. I worked on the article about the KKK leader tonight and then watched Louis and the Nazis, highly recommended. It's interesting to see how things develop over time. The modern white supremacists have trouble getting 200 people together, let alone the 200,000 that they could get 90 years ago. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:28, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks. The source used "rudimentary", and since it may be a medical term I wasn't willing to risk changing it to "basic" or "underdeveloped" Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:36, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 24

Hi. When you recently edited Lower-back tattoo, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Brittany Spears (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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I think it was a typo. Spears is definitely not the basketball player I never heard of until today, or the fictional character. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 11:49, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh man, I've made that typo so many times, quite embarrassing. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Lucky Diamond Rich

You might be interested in this article. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 11:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow, I wonder how long it took him to get all those, must have been expensive. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I think the old record holder spent something like $30k Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:23, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's a lot to spend on turning yourself blue. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Some Momos for you!

Momo101.jpg Momos for you!
For expanding the article Lower-back tattoo with a lot of useful and interesting information. SupernovaExplosion Talk 12:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, how did you know I love momos. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


Have you looked at this one before? It's long, but interesting

Good Article Candidate n.
  • An article you've asked one of your friends to pass
Hmm... Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
    • LOL, that's good. I trust my friends have more integrity than that, BTW, did you get that check I sent for the last one? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:40, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
      • I'll check for a cheque, good sir. So, as agreed previously? Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:46, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Sure, if you want to, that would be much appreciated. I asked Mathew, but I guess he was too busy (or didn't care to read about a Klan leader). Mark Arsten (talk) 01:48, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
          • Perhaps. We both know it's not going to be the easiest read. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
            • Yeah, this one was kinda tough to work on for some reason, hard to put my finger on why exactly. I'm actually not sure if I want to try to take it to FA since I'm so sick of reading about this guy. Oh well, maybe I'll take a few months away from it and put more work in. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:55, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
              • I don't blame you. After restoring those two images, I buried myself in non-Klan related stuff. BTW, this is a very striking portrait, methinks. You may the related article interesting as well, although not necessarily easy to expand. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:01, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                • Oh yes, I've seen that portrait before, beautiful picture. I am reasonably familiar with the Bashi-bazouks, if you recall, Bloody Bill was compared to them. That would be an interesting article to work on, there's probably enough sources--but again, not always fun to read about. I was in Turkey last fall, so I learned a bit about the Ottomans, interesting and often sordid history there. Oh well, editing Turkey related topics is what got Jack in trouble to begin with, that area can be a real minefield. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:09, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                  • Interesting, my interactions with him were always about Indonesia. I just dug up that full-size portrait yesterday; the MET has a lot of nice scans. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:14, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                    • Good to hear, hope it didn't take too long to upload. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                    • Oh, I go to web cafes when I go on uploading binges. Faster Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:47, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                      • Smart thinking, a slow connection would be very hard for me to get used to. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:48, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
                        • Good thing its so cheap here. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:03, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Article is on hold. Mailing address still the same.
nominator n.
  1. Incurable optimist.
  2. Inexperienced first-timer: unwitting, innocent lamb to the slaughter.
  3. Experienced veteran: possesses the skin of a rhinoceros and balls of steel.
  • Which one do you fall under? Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:33, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Lamb led to the slaughter, lol. Reviews can be a hard experience for first-timers. Well, thanks for the review. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:38, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


Hey Mark, that's ok. To be honest, I thought it was the nominator who deleted the text. I think it is his first venture to FAC and assumed that this was his way of dealing with resolved issues. Thanks for the congrats. I'm very pleased with Leno. The article would not be what it is if it wasn't for your excellent PR. I'm currently having a look about for my next venture so watch this space. All the best ! -- Cassianto (talk) 09:32, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good, hope it goes well. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Abandon hope, ye who enter here

Remember how you said S&Man got a bad review? Check this out. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:41, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that's borderline vandalism right there. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

WTF (and, bonus for the page patrollers) BALLS

  • I'm thinking of stopping my translations to the Indonesian Wikipedia. This FA nomination for the Indonesian version of Jamila dan Sang Presiden (sorry if it's impossible to read) is being derailed by one person saying "it's not long enough" and not citing any comprehensiveness concerns, and another going "all newspapers are unreliable". I go to say that s/he's full of wind, but then I see the policy is more broken than good old RFA here. For example:
4. References to be avoided
2. Newspapers (except for biographies and events)
The policy is clearly not geared to popular culture articles (can you name even one book on Richard Simmons, for example?)
Another, for Soedjatmoko, is being derailed by one person who registered an oppose !vote saying that the person was "not important" (not a policy anywhere) about 10 minutes after I opposed one of his nominations (based on policy, mine was). Another opposer didn't even bother giving a reason.
I take back that initial comment... RFA is in much better shape than this. Imagine if people tried this at FAC... the streets would be awash in tears and cheetos. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:33, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh man, that would be funny were it not for the wasted time. It makes all the FAC drama around here seem silly. Well, at least we're not the only wiki with problems. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
But that's a good point, it's just impossible to find book/academic sources for some things--makes things real tough sometimes. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I think every Wiki has problems, but blatant hypocrisy... now I know how some feel. The sad thing is, with five FAs there I already have 4% of all FAs on the Indonesian Wikipedia. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:22, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that would be the equivalent of having like 150 FAs here, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:51, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • More or less. I understand some of the things they have, like a blanket policy on Blogs (not that I agree, if Ucu Agustin is going to blog about filming Ragat'e Anak, that should be used as a source for production issues). I wouldn't use blogs for a critical reception section, naturally, but for factual information its fine. But newspapers and magazines, all in one swoop? Another editor pointed to our article on 300... not allowing such sources would be suicide for an encyclopedia which covers popular culture articles. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, what's unfortunate is that some editors here would adopt that policy if they could. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:11, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Not citing newspapers? Really? Seriously? I'm ashamed of those editors... Blogs I can understand, but newspapers... Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:42, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • There's a certain segment of editors who are so incensed that we cover pop culture, and would do anything to stop that. Definitely odd. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:44, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, but if one were stuck citing books even for Barack Obama they'd find themselves in a pickle. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:32, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • That would be quite the chore! Mark Arsten (talk) 04:43, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Oh well. While fuming about this, I still managed to write an article which I'm nominating for GA. They may act as primadonnas, let it be... I'll just bring in more readers. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:46, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, the ideas some Wikipedians have are pretty bizarre, best to try to tune them out. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:48, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I received an email from a mutual friend... apparently {{sfn}} can be used to cite minutes as well. I was wondering how to get ? (film) up to FA while sticking with the SFN format... thanks, mutual friend. I agree Mark, some Wikipedians are strange, but some are quite helpful... Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Honore Laval

If you are ever interested in creating another article similiar to Alexis Bachelot, you look into Honore Laval, the insane priest that nearly wiped out all of the natives of the Gambier Islands.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:07, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Sounds interesting, if not somewhat macabre, I'll look into it, thanks for the suggestion! Mark Arsten (talk) 15:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Insane and macabre? I'd be surprised if you didn't take it. What with lynchings, Klansmen, and Wild Bill... Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:04, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I just started working on a great one today, stay tuned. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, I guess people can look in my sandboxes, it's not really private. BTW, I'm reading through Tichborne case right now, riveting article. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, also, I wouldn't complain if you were to double-check that the images on Lenore Romney are Ok :) Mark Arsten (talk) 00:23, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think I've heard of that one. Now I hope nobody will start debating the term "claim", "heir", and so on as it doesn't fit their legal definition. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • ROFL, that is so funny. Oh man, the people you run into on this site sometimes... Mark Arsten (talk) 00:32, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Bleh, okay Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Here's what I've got
File:Lenore Romney 1970 campaign commercial.gif has a valid FUR, although it could actually be a bit bigger (should be jpg, too), but that's too picky even for FA.
File:George and Lenore Romney in 1962.gif has problems. First of all, we don't see back of the page, so we can't know if it's definitely go no copyright notice (it's not a poster, which generally do not have stuff on the back to save on printing. Promotional images, like those of Kirk in you archive, can still have notices on the back). Second, the photograph itself seems to be from a Boston Globe photographer (see link), meaning that even if Romney or whomever published the pamphlet without a copyright notice, he didn't own the rights to the photograph, and thus his rights couldn't have slipped away.
File:RomneySwornInSecHUD.jpg seems okay (PD-US-gov)
Hope that helps. I'll be nominating the pamphlet for deletion. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:35, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • On second thought, the photograph in the pamphlet wasn't from the Boston Globe - still not sure the creator of the pamphlet had the rights to the image though, so up for deletion. I suggest removing the image until the debate is closed. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, thanks for checking, good work. I'll mention it on the GA review. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm totally going to ask you to proofread something in return... just taking forever to get it ready (it's a list :-D, and I haven't even started on the prose yet, five hours in) Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, cool, let me know when you're ready. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:52, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • K, that's it for the night. If you want to peek... I'm still missing one studio album (lost my copy, have to buy a new one) and several singles; I suspect there are more, but without sources I don't want to put em in. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Lower back tattoo

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

  • No picture, eh? Well, hope I get the picture slot. Then I can have the censor people shooting electricity through my screen like an 80s movie. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:23, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Replied to your email. BTW, the hermaphrodite article is getting more hits on average than Chrisye... seems time editing vs page views is nowhere near ideal. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:47, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that's pretty funny--wish there were some way around that. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:51, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
  • They forgot to add the DYK template at the article talk. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 05:17, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Huh, that is odd, I wonder why. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed. Actually the DYK notice was left in the redirect page. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 05:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, that does make sense, now that I think about it. I had the page moved after I submitted the DYK nomination, so the original page is now a redirect. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:26, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • That's strange. I think it was probably because the hook emphasized the Muria people. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 00:55, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Probably. The Muria had about 18k hits, I think. When it is more balanced it can be quite nice. Quickie Express and Sandra Dewi had about 9k hits each (double hook). Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:40, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, Mark, you may have straddled the date line. You had another 1.7k hits on the 30th. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:43, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


*Phew*... even Mrs. Crisco is tired of me sitting here. Could you pretty please look at it and see what I goofed up? Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that is a long list. Pretty amazing, that table is huge. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:47, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Do you think you'll go to featured list with it? Mark Arsten (talk) 23:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok then, good to know :) I've never done anything with FL, or any lists for that matter. Hope it goes well. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • It's my first venture as well... supposed to have a very different culture. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:07, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • FYI, there are a number of harv errors on the references of List of songs recorded by Chrisye. I think you need to code .27.27 into the sfnRef template in the bibliography for the italics.|ref={{sfnRef|Liner notes for .27.27AkustiChrisye.27.27}} instead of |ref={{sfnRef|Liner notes for ''AkustiChrisye''}} Mark Arsten (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, that worked. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:27, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Yep, looks good now. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:27, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Danke. BTW, the current FAC now has 3 supports :D Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Sadler question

I'm either really short, wearing a really long coat, or the victim of a horribly unfortunate camera angle.

The last sentence of the first paragraph in the "Early life and education" section:

Samuel was a convert to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and his son was baptized into the denomonation in 1888 and became devoutly religious.

His son == William (subject of article)? Who became devoutly religious, Samuel or William? It wasn't clear and I didn't want to get it wrong in the copyedit. LivitEh?/What? 20:01, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for asking (and for helping with the copyedit). What happened was: Samuel converted, then William was baptized in '88 and William became very committed to the faith. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:05, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Got it. Next, "was eventually solicited by a federal law enforcement agency (he did not accept their offer)." I'm trying to recast that to remove the parenthetical phrase, but I need a little more info to make a clean sentence. Was it a job offer, or what? Any other details? LivitEh?/What? 20:11, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't have too many details, I think what happened was an agency learned of his work with the Comstock enforcement group and offered him a job, but he declined. I can try to check more later, but I don't think any of the secondary sources mention much more than that. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
If you could at least verify that it was an employment offer, that would help. I've done the lede (which I'll have to redo at the end, probably) and the first section. I won't have enough time right now to do the next section, so I will hold off until later tonight or tomorrow. LivitEh?/What? 20:22, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, they did offer him a job. He was a bit of a polymath, I think. You bring up a good (and amusing) point about the picture, I wonder how tall he was. Hmm... Mark Arsten (talk) 20:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


Vandals make silly edits. BTW, have a look at this edit. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 10:05, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know what that guy's problem was, I think he was mad that there is a specific college aid group to help more African Americans fund their university payments but none to specifically give more white Americans funding. Some people get real worked up about that over here, they're almost as bad as the Men's rights people sometimes. If you look at the history of my user page you can find some more funny stuff, some vandal wrote something about me pleasuring giraffes and violating goats. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
This one really made me laugh, he sneaked it in the middle. I wanted to write an edit summary when I reverted it, something like "Actually, I'm a dog person". Mark Arsten (talk) 17:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I saw one where a vandal copied pi to a million digits... shame that revision's been deleted Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:34, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that would have been pretty cool to see. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • On a smaller wiki I used to edit (on-site wiki for a browser game), one vandal managed to replicate goatse using a jillion coloured table cells. It was truly an impressive feat. GRAPPLE X 23:37, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • That is impressive, a shame he didn't use his considerable powers for good though. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:46, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • This oldid houses the raw code, and I know I'm going to regret that. GRAPPLE X 23:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, I wonder how long it took him to make that. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • So you guys are talking about those vandal? Don't you know the legendary vandal Grwap? He/She is a folkloric legend in all wikis in the net. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 00:51, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, between ED and our LTA page I've heard a bit about that guy. He liked writing HAGGAR if I recall correctly. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The most complete treatment of Grawp is at Encyclopedia dramatica, I think. Enter with care with care though, there some stuff on that site you probably don't want to see. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Not sure, interesting to see them though. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:30, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Can't think of an applicable policy. The first two look okay. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:43, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
You've mail. --SupernovaExplosion Talk 03:37, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Your note

Hi Mark, thanks for your note. There are various reasons I'm not keen on reviewing that article, but I'll take a closer look and may change my mind (but if you don't hear more from me about it it means I won't be reviewing it). In the meantime, the way it's written up in the lead needs a tweak. The issue was not segregation of seating areas and servers for African American and female employees. Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 02:49, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, well, your comments were helpful to me even if you don't post a review. BTW, good work on the Bradley Manning article. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! I saw you'd made an edit to fix a comma, but then I noticed the edit before yours added citation templates, so I reverted to the version before that one. I then tried to restore your comma, but I can't see it in the diff. So please feel free to re-add it, and I'm sorry for being a nuisance. SlimVirgin (talk) 04:28, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
No problem, always glad to help with commas :) Re-added it, commas like that are a lot of what I do at FAC these days. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

New feature

Saw this on Mathew's talk page... looks fun. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

That is interesting, good to see what the WMF people are up to. Looks like that would be pretty helpful for newpage patrolling. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I bet. Don't know if it will be a gadget or standard though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
  • BTW, wanna do another organisation article? SE would probably be interested. Ever hear of COYOTE? Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Funny that you ask, I just watched a documentary about Wild Horse Adult Resort & Spa last week. Part of the legalized prostitution in Nevada, interesting subject. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:51, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Hmm... if we "let down our defenses" in a bathtub, what happens in a jacuzzi? Shame if we tried to find out it would be OR... Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:01, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
        • lol, yeah, it probably would be. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Never going to Nevada anyways. Unless somehow translators make good money (translating Un Soir du Paris, freelance) Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:23, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
            • Oh wow, that's pretty cool about the translation project, hope it works out well. I take it you're going Indonesian to English? I've heard that going from a language you've learned to your native language usually yields the best results. I went to Nevada with the family when I was 15 or so, didn't make it to any brothels though. BTW, Mitt Romney is at FAC right now--I admire the nominator's ambition, looks like it will be a long detailed review. The article itself is probably 12k words including footnotes. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:33, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
                • That's a gauntlet indeed. I just went through Fauré, so I'm not up to another monster article yet. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:37, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
                  • Fauré must have been a good read, Tim is quite the writer. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
                    • I had like ten comments... for a 40k+ article, that is amazing. Speaking of good (or bad) writers... I'll be getting a new book on Chrisye in a couple of days. Expect me to be pestering you for a copyedit within two weeks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
                    A few more random things. 1740 Batavia massacre was just promoted, and on an unrelated note I sent you a translation of Un Soir du Paris via email. (SE, if you're interested feel free to email me) Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
                      • Yeah, I reviewed an article of Brianboulton's last week, I was really digging to find anything to point out. It's great to see well written articles like that, but it somehow feels wrong to review an article without having anything to mention. Good to hear that you got a new book, I finally got the last book I need for the Jesse Washington article. I ordered a copy a month ago, but it got lost in the mail and I had to reorder. Thanks for sending over the translation, I'll check it out. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Golabek DOB

I am the person who put that DOB there. A few weeks ago, about the time Golabek's new play was opening in L.A., I wrote to my brother, who is a life-long friend of Mona's and asked him for information about Mona's birthdate and formal education (college). He said he probably had a bio someplace about the education but hasn't located it or sent it to me. But he emailed me with her precise DOB, which I have no reason to question. I know that's not a "citable source." And I have looked high and low for one. But I thought it was better to have what is very likely to be the correct DOB, with the "citation needed" tag, than to leave it blank. I can't dispute your rule-based removing it (I'm a very experienced editor), but FYI there was a reason why I put it there despite the lack of a formal citation.Mack2 (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the note, that's understandable. It is probably best to leave it out then, dates of birth have been a pretty controversial subject around here, of late. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:44, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Editors Barnstar Hires.png The Editor's Barnstar
For your valuable help in the Good Article promotion of the Pisco Sour article. MarshalN20 | Talk 00:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, glad to help, that was pretty interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:53, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey Mark

Your contributions to Wikipedia noticed @ Yahoo News: LINK (in a bar graph showing the monikers of the users with the most edits during the U.S. Pres. Primaries so far to the Wiki blp pertaining to a Republican party candidate).--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 10:32, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh man, that is so funny. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

A special gift

Semar Kris (alt) 3.jpg for a special review
Hi Mark, thanks a lot for the prose review (and persistent copyediting) at the recent (successful) FAC for 1740 Batavia massacre; second in a row, and I'm really glad we could bring this through. In thanks, I'm giving you a collectible kris. The blade is iron with gold leaf and it has a twin naga design. Hopefully you don't have one yet! Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh thanks, glad to hear that it was finally promoted. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Sadler progress

Hi Mark... I wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about the article, but I've been crazy busy lately in real life and haven't had time to do any copyediting at all. I'm going to be on a plane for several hours tomorrow, and I'm taking along an off-line copy of the article and I'll copy edit it over the Atlantic somewhere, and upload everything some time Wednesday. Sorry I've been so out of it! LivitEh?/What? 22:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the update. Pretty cool that it will be copyedited over the ocean. I'm fine waiting, I'm sure I can find other things to keep me busy around here :) Mark Arsten (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, Huggle, AWB, keeping up on all the latest dramaz, and maybe even editing articles if I get bored enough :) Mark Arsten (talk) 22:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Ok, I just pasted in the full copyedit. I'm going to read it again at some point over the weekend, so there may be some minor changes still, but I'll be done by Sunday night (EST). Honestly, this one was already in really good shape so there wasn't a whole lot for me to do. Sorry it took so long! LivitEh?/What? 22:00, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, glad to hear that you think it's in good shape. I've had a lot of help on this one already. I'll probably make a few minor changes before nominating it, mainly to condense the citations. Hope your flight went well! Mark Arsten (talk) 22:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


Should I try to bring this to FA class? Probably just need to watch the documentary on my DVD... BTW, your email guilted me into using the plain list template. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, sounds interesting, glad to hear the plain list won out :) I don't know too much about film articles, but I'll try to be of help if you want though. You know, Ayu Utami is quite beautiful. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:58, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Really? Maybe its because of our age difference, but I don't find her that attractive. I'll be sure to ping you when the article gets to peer review. BTW, like your new link. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Huh, that surprises me too--I think we need someone to be the tiebreaker. But yes, I really liked that edit to the main page, sad it didn't stick. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:11, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Can we both agree on Dewi Sandra? Shame the poster got blocked for it... and then came back as a sockpuppet. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Lol. Like this? Shame we don't have a free picture of SD... heck, there are a lot of pictures I wish we had... My favourite female singer Gita Gutawa being first and foremost. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I'll have to check out Ms. Gutawa when I get a chance. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh man that is such a funny poster, I lol'd aloud (yes, redundant, I know). I do have anxiety, but only when I polish off a six-pack of Red Bull before editing. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:38, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Six-pack? Oh my... caffeine overdose. Hoping to see one of your articles at FAC soon. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:42, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, six-pack is a slight exaggeration... I do plan to nominate Sadler soon, just waiting on my copyeditor to finish, then I'll read it one more time and nominate it. Hope it goes well. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Copyediting over the Atlantic, not bad. You know, I've only flown over the Atlantic twice. Everything else was over the Pacific. Alright, can't wait to see it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Speaking of copyediting, can you give this monster a look? I just got the blessing of its creator to have another go at FAC. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Sure, I can give it a read through, quite a big one there. I assume you're going to PR it before FAC, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 15:57, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
      • As a side note, the prose should be pretty decent... not sure about later additions though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

C3 Picasso

Hi Mark. I've worked on a few issues you pointed out but was wondering if you could confirm this as done: "Numbers less than 10 should generally be written out (i.e. "two out of three" rather than "2 out of 3")." It's on the talk page. Thanks Jenova20 08:20, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe i have sorted the "plasticky" issue aswell. The reviews say plastic and i appear to have quoted "plasticky" from somewhere even though they all say just "plastic". Thanks Jenova20 08:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Alright, good to hear that you're still working on it, will try to check it out sooner or later. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:57, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
I had a quiet week on Wikipedia but i've given up a time consuming hobby to get back into it =]
No rush Mark, thanks Jenova20 16:05, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Nudge! Won't take ya long Mark...and then i can get on with the next parts. Thanks and take this in the light hearted way it's meant. Jenova20 15:30, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, just took a look, numbers and plastic seem to have been sorted out. Looks like the page is improving, I'd recommend doing away with the bullets on the Advertising section though. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:08, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Much appreciated and done. I'm struggling to find other content though, other than mileage and emissions. Anything you can suggest looking for? Thanks Jenova20 09:53, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure, I don't have much experience with car articles. Sorry! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:40, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
No worries, you offered help when i needed it. Thanks Jenova20 13:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey, thanks for the pizza! Unfortunately, I won't be able to eat it--I'm actually a Breatharian. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Well if you don't starve to death then i look forward to working alongside you in future Mark! =] Jenova20 20:18, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reward board

You ever use this? I wonder if it works. I'm asking for a picture of Gita Gutawa. She's in the UK now, so it should be easy to get someone after her with a camera. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

No, I haven't. I didn't realize it was still active, actually. Hope you get a picture! Mark Arsten (talk) 02:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Not sure if it is. Trying the bounty board as well, can't bring to article to FAC without an image. :-( Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I GOT THE BOOK! *swoon* and two of the pictures are pretty awesome. Articles look good too. Shame I have something else keeping me busy (new book on that one coming tomorrow)Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Hey, that's pretty cool. You're nowhere near that plane crash, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 15:31, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
      • West Java? At least 400 to 500 kilometres (250 to 310 mi) from me. I kept two of my students bored by talking about the book while waiting for a third to come... hehe. Then one pulled out her special issue of Kawanku about Greyson Chance. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
        • Good to hear. You know, I hadn't heard of this Greyson fellow before, guess I'm not keeping up on pop culture these days. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:37, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
          • I only heard of him because that one student positively adores him... puppy love and crushes on celebrities and whatnot. Oh, the pains of teaching preteens... Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:40, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Delete My User Page

Please delete my user page as I have already left Wikipedia as i don't find it useful at at all.

Tan Chee Hien. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not an Admin, so I cannot delete it. If you can log in to your account, you can tag it for speedy deletion with WP:U1. If you can't access your account, I guess you could use WP:MFD. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:07, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Sooo tired...

Argh, that last article I wrote just sucked the energy out of me...  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:54, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I bet, that is is pretty decent sized one. I just finished the research on the lynching article, just tidying up now. Going to be nice to have that one done with. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:43, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh my, that's sure to be a fun GAN... "Don't forget to have umpteen million citations for 'lynch'"...  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that would be just what I need. Although, I suppose one could argue about whether Washington was murdered or executed. He was lynched after receiving a death sentence from a court, but the crowd wasn't acting on the orders of the court--so I doubt I could call it an execution. I can just say he was lynched though, so that makes it simpler, although no less macabre. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:08, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Film articles are so much simpler.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Ruma Maida

Remember this article? Grapple was awesome and reviewed it yesterday, I'm thinking of going to FAC soon. Glad to see Anderson has a lot of support at the A-class review!  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:16, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good, looks like things are going well. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Fairly well, but it's still early. Can't wait for your next FAC! Is the copyedit finished yet? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:59, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Sort of, he said he'd check his work again this weekend... I'm actually fairly confident in the article, which is unusual... hope it's not a bad omen. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I feel the same about Maida, so ... we'll see how that works out. In the meantime, I'll be keeping myself busy writing random articles... don't think my connection would handle Huggle very well. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:10, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Replied. Side note: Mrs Crisco says Pong Tiku is a weird name, and yet he's also Indonesian. Hmm... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Hmm, might want to check her passport... could be a spy. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Oh Gosh, I could have married a Malaysian! (Trust me, the two countries do not get along.) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
        • lol, Asian politics. I had heard there was some issue about the Indonesian and Malaysian languages being similar, but neither country wanting to acknowledge that. Oh well, at least they don't elect presidents on the basis of how they transport their pets. Anyway, Girls' Generation is up for GA at the moment, unfortunately doesn't look like it's up to GA standards though. Looks like it would need some work to pass though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
          • If it's anything like the Indonesian language one at FAC now, agreed. Now, Ratu, on the other hand... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
            • Ehh, well, I claimed the review, we'll see how this goes. Ratu does look quite interesting though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
              • Hmhm, bad form to back out. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:55, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                • Well, I left a few general comments, we'll see what comes of this. Speaking of Asian women, Xiaxue is also a GA nominee. It stands a better chance of making it, the tone needs some work though: "her success has been attributed to her bitchy, provocative writing style". LOL. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:02, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                  • If it's a direct quote, no problem :-D Awesome. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                  • BTW, on that one I'd suggest making sure the works are italicised and removing FN11 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                    • Yeah, I probably won't review that one, even if it is interesting. I have higher priorities... Mark Arsten (talk) 04:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                      • Indeed. I'm watching the whole original series of Star Trek in my spare time. Almost done Season 1. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                        • Hey, sounds like a good time. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                          • Mhm, shame the Mrs doesn't like it. When we watch TV together we usually watch movies. I'm convincing her to give Disney a chance. We watched Lady and the Tramp and Cinderella last week. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
                            • lol, sounds like a fun time, and romantic too :) Mark Arsten (talk) 04:56, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Short, eh? Wonder why Miss Meyers didn't draw any fire. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, I tend to think of any featured article with less than 11k of prose as short. I like it though, it's nice to see short top quality articles. BTW, there actually was some drama about Miss Myers during its GA nomination, it ended up derailing someone's Rfa even. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Ah... And, of course, part of it was over MF. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


I responded at the peer review. BTW, check this out. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

lol, that's a great dif. Thanks for the peer review, your copyedits look good to me. I've learned a lot by writing it, but I'm going to be glad to be done with this article. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't doubt it. There's several bits of Indonesian history that come to mind, but mostly the atrocities were political. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
  • It's very hard to understand from the lede where the murder took place and where the lynching took place. At first I thought everything happened in Waco, but (I think) only the trial did. Right? I think all that sort of thing should be in the first few sentences. MathewTownsend (talk) 00:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Hmm, that's a good point, I should clear that up. The murder happened near Waco, the trial and his death happened in Waco proper. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • "significant extrajudicial mob violence (known as lynching)" - "extrajudicial mob violence" is not necessarily lynching - the way it is worded sounds like they're synonyms.
  • "The judge asked Washington for a plea, a request that confused the young man" - there's a lot in this article that sounds like an overall "voice" talking - is there a citation? "Courtroom observers wrote that the request seemed to confuse the young man."(citation) MathewTownsend (talk) 00:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Interesting, neither of those had occurred to me, I rephrased to remove them both. SoRelle doesn't mention his source for Washington being confused, so I more or less skipped around that. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:57, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, I noticed someone mentioned that because the young man couldn't read that he was assumed to be mentally retarded. Today we would say he was dyslexic or had some other learning disability and not mentally retarded unless proven otherwise. And, of course, he may not have received an education and didn't know how to read. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that is true. There really are a lot of things that can make it tough for someone to learn to read. I guess this is a situation where it is best to stick to the facts instead of opinions. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
For expanding Lynching of Jesse Washington and bringing it to FAC. If WP contains nothing else, it needs articles like this to serve as lessons to future generations. Noleander (talk) 04:51, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks folks, I really appreciate this. This article was tough to write at times, but now I'm really glad I stuck with it. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:21, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For article reviewing skills and being a level-headed editor overall. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:23, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I appreciate the barnstar. Reviewing can be hard work sometimes, but it really pays off in the end. I find this quote to be a great motivation for reviewing. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


Check email. --NGC 2736 (talk) 07:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

journal articles

Hi Mark,

The New York State Dental Journal is available free online. The issue that you want is here (scroll to page 50). It doesn't look like I have access to the South African dentistry journal article. Best, GabrielF (talk) 01:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, can't believe I missed that. Thanks for the help, I'll look some more for the others. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Much ado about nothing

AKA the dramaz. Conspiracy theories, everywhere! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, I recall reading that thread back when it was live. At least today we have pictures of two beautiful women on the main page. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh the stuff people will come up with. I agree, but I'd much rather see the one in the purple shirt a little higher up. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:19, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • You wish her shirt went higher up? It sounds like Indonesia really has made you conservative. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Huh? Rather have the picture of the girl in the purple shirt in a higher part of the main page... hint hint. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, yeah, I kind of was. I guess your original meaning would make sense too. Well, FAC has been pretty vexing to me over the past day or so, haven't garnered any opposes though, so I should look on the bright side. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Fair enough. I'll get some pictures ready. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Photo publication year

Regarding publication date of photo: I think photos prior to 1923 are in the public domain ... there is a 99% likelihood that all photos of the lynching were published within the first year after the event. The Crisis published many of the photos. At some point, it is okay to make an educated guess about the year of publication and just go with it. Or, just use the image. --Noleander (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the advice, hopefully I can get this figured out soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:08, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm not convinced the postcard image was taken by Gildersleeve, as he signed his photos and negatives, had his own studio where he would have produced his own postcards, and because the quality of the image is superior to the other images of the lynching taken by Gildersleeve, but since the original message says "This is the Barbecue we had last night" and the correspondent marks himself in the photo, you have a publication date which will make it PD-US regardless of the photographer. Yomanganitalk 23:00, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I guess it would make sense that it was taken by someone else--I think the postcard image was taken in Robinson, a few miles outside of Waco. Thanks for the comment, I'll ping the image reviewer again. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I put the image from W. E. B. Du Bois in, hope the reviewer is Ok with it. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)



Sorry I've been missing in action lately. For some reason, it's very hard to do anything meaningful on wikipedia lately. Negative mood I'm in. Don't know the problem, but I feel should be doing more to help you out. MathewTownsend (talk) 22:46, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you're in a negative mood. It is just hard to get motivated sometimes. No need to apologize though, the people who should be apologizing are the ones causing drama and strife all the time. Here, maybe this will give you some energy :) Mark Arsten (talk) 22:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


I've found proof that vandals have too much time on their hands. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

O RLY? Do tell. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh yes, that template was on TFA... tricky tricky vandals. Must admit I did laugh though, oops, just fed the troll. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:45, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I actually have images disabled on one browser, but that wouldn't have stopped that one, actually, because of how it was coded in. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:49, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. I don't see why anyone would waste so much time. Oddly, the length of the TFA has had no objections. I wanted another MissingNo.! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:01, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I knew I shouldn't have linked to that code. :( GRAPPLE X 00:52, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Please revert if my rewrite is wrong


On impulse I rewrote the intro to William Sadler. I was just so happy to be freed from my writer's block that I just went ahead and did it. Please revert if anything is screwed up. (I decided that the intro was preventing me from reading the article, so I selfishly did it my way.) Sorry for any trouble I've caused you by doing this. MathewTownsend (talk) 21:55, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey, glad to hear that your writer's block cleared up. I took a quick look at the rewrite version and it seems Ok, a lot seems pretty similar to how I recall it. I'm a bit worn out after a day in the sun, so perhaps I'll have more tweaks later. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:52, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • A day in the sun with the May flowers? Hmm... sounds better than 90-something degrees with the dust blowing against your helmet at 50 mph. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess so, blowing dust isn't too fun in any temperature though. BTW, I'm glad to see you at Rfa and that it's going well. Just think, you'll be deleting the main page and blocking functionaries in a matter of days :) Mark Arsten (talk) 01:16, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh no, to delete the main page one must be a programmer (system developer?) or whatever... they've got it hardcoded. Can't delete the United States either, no matter how much some admins may want to. Mind you, flying around on a mop while warts pop out of my nose sounds interesting :-D. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm, that's right. But, you could add some "deep questions" to the top of the page... then again, the last guy who tried that got in trouble, I think. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Desysopped and accused of editing under the influence, yes. I wouldn't do anything crazy. Although I won't be able to repeat the April Fools joke without hitting myself. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:36, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────(ec) Re Sadler, I mostly rearranged the info, put it in chronological order so the dates didn't jump around so much and his marriage and year with Freud were chronologically in the right place. I have difficulty when dates aren't in order. I did some minor rewording. Tried to explain who the names mentioned were and to emphasize what Sadler was noted for in the intro. May take more of a stab at the rest. The article would benefit from a brief explanation about the spiritual and philosophical Urantia movement actually was - what it stood for and all. I read the linked articles, but they are all evasive - "spiritual" and "philosophical". The article rests on the importance of the book and subsequent movement, but these are never spelled out. e.g. the importance of the "extraterrestrial" is kind of a teaser. Also, dropping out of the Seventh Day Adventist Church because Kellogg was thrown out in 1907? I wonder what was really going on! MathewTownsend (talk) 01:45, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Interesting thoughts, summarizing the contents of the Urantia book is tough to do. It talks about everything from space aliens to Christian doctrine and the life of Christ, I think there's even a passage about Adam and Eye riding giant condors. I'll try to take another look at the sources, and see if there's a concise summary anywhere. Leaving the Adventist church after Kellogg does make sense to me, the Kelloggs had mentored Sadler and given him almost everything he had (including his wife), so there must have been some deep loyalty there. One thing that really strikes me about the Urantia book movement is that it never turned in to a "cult" per se, even though it has unusual UFO/spiritual teachings like some well known cults do (Heaven's Gate, for one). I guess Sadler deserves a lot of credit for that. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Reverted additions in Arch by

Hi Mark. Looks like you reverted some edits by an unregistered (and now blocked) user in Arch, but they seem to be useful additions. Perhaps we should reconsider and keep these changes. --Pereant antiburchius (talk) 21:03, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, I disagree that they were useful additions, I think the edits that I reverted [20] & [21] were simply an IP pasting several copies of the same article on top of each other. But, feel free to make the changes you find necessary to that article, it's outside my area of interest. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 21:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
You're right, it was in fact copying and pasting, plain vandalism. Sorry to bother you! --Pereant antiburchius (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Not a problem, have a good day. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:20, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

A strong foundation

Batak Toba House.jpg for a strong article
Thank you for the review at Ruma Maida. The article has passed FAC, making it the first Indonesian film FA. Hope Sadler and the lynching articles follow soon!

To thank you, I am building you a Batak Toba-style house; a vacation home, if you will. Although Lake Toba is incredibly beautiful, remember to watch out for mosquitoes!  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

  • That's great to hear. You know, I actually would like to visit Indonesia sometime, doesn't look like I'll make it anytime soon though. I guess you got my quick promotion at FAC luck now, and I'm stuck in for the long haul. Oh well, I can spend my time working on Skrillex's YouTube channel, that will be my next FA. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • No, I'll have to check those out, I'm laughing at the title already. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • They should; both were inspired by Cracked, LOL. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • That's, erm, interesting? There's quite a few interesting cases here too — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • ED has had an article on the guy for a while, cf. some of his earlier videos. Apparently he made an article on himself here back in 2008, but it was deleted. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:00, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh my... I hope this isn't his way of getting an article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:11, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
As a side note, that hermaphrodite article is still getting 500 hits a day. Somehow that's even higher then The Shirelles (stats), which one would expect to be better known. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:15, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
That is strange, very strange. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Nudity trumps vocals? Oh my. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

What's next for you?

So with Sadler idling at FAC, I'm looking for something new. I'll be on a business trip for the next two weeks, there's no copy-edit drive next month, and a man can only CSD so much spam. Got anything in the pipeline? LivitEh?/What? 14:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Funny that you should ask, I'm about to move an article from a sandbox to article-space in the next day or two. I've got it almost complete, I just need to take another pass or two to make sure it's ready to go live, will let you know. You sure travel on business a lot, hope you're going someplace interesting. Thanks for asking! Mark Arsten (talk) 14:21, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
BTW, Sadler is going very smoothly, we got quite the compliment on the prose from the last reviewer. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:27, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm... Is it the one I've been peeking at? Hehe. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • This is the one about the gambling god... Mark Arsten (talk) 14:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Religious language

Hi there, Mark. As you know, I'm still working on religious language - I'm hoping to nominate it at FAC after my exams finish on the 14th. Do you think you'd be able to look at this section, please? I'm finding it difficult to make it clear and coherent, and still get the message across. A second eye would be much appreciated. (The whole article needs a CE if you have the time, but that section especially needs work). Thanks, ItsZippy (talkcontributions) 17:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Alright, hope the exams go well! I'll take a look at that section. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Paul McCartney

Thanks for fixing some of the Americanisms with a script. In regards to HarvErrors, yes I would very much appreciate some help there, as I am unsure how to identify where or why the errors are occuring. Any tips/help would be great, thanks for the offer! — GabeMc (talk) 22:00, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to fix. It's hard to explain but kinda easy to fix when you get the hang of it. If you ask Br'er Rabbit about it he'll probably be able to explain better than I can. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Re: Puerto Rico floods

Thanks a lot for reviewing! If you ever need anything reviewed, feel free to let me know. Cheers --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, I like reviewing short, well-written articles. Thanks for the offer! I do have Clarence 13X up for GA and William S. Sadler at FAC, you might find either of them to be an interesting review. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:39, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Yea! I'll take a look at one of them. It'd have to wait til tomorrow but I can do that. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:17, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good, I look forward to it. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:53, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for !voting

Syzygium malaccense, Mangunharjo Orchard, Dlingo, Yogyakarta.jpg at my successful RFA
Thank you, Mark Arsten, for !voting at my successful RFA; I am humbled that you put your trust in me, and glad to see that your own edits are as great as ever (btw, check out Nike Ardilla and her work if you like somewhat soft rock). I grant you this flower, which, if tended to properly, will grow to be the fruit of Wikipedia's labours. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, my pleasure, I'll check out Nike. But, I'll have to be more respectful toward you now--since you're an admin, you can rain down vengeance upon your enemies and smite them like the angry fist of God. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:29, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You still handle snakes, right? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:53, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah, but so long as you do you have proof that you need not fear my smoting (smiting?) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:12, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Snake handling may earn God's favor, but it incurs Darwin's wrath. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

University City

You did not like my edit to the University City, Philly entry. You cited a policy of verifiability. This does not make sense. All I did was add to the introductory sentence what is cited THROUGHOUT the UC entry (with multiple citations and discussion of this throughout the entry). This is not additional info, but rather a reordering of the info already present in the Wikipedia entry. This is important summary info that is clarifying when added to the first sentence of the entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:11, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I realize that now. Which is why I reverted myself within a minute of my first revert to the page and apologized to you on your talk page a minute later. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Urantia movement


As mentioned in the lede of William S. Sadler, what was the Urantia movement? I can't figure these things out. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:17, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that second sentence might be begging the question, will edit a bit. It's pretty close to passing, this is looking like the smoothest FAC I've had yet. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I took a shot at fixing your concerns. Does this work? Mark Arsten (talk) 18:59, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Smoothest yet? Yet the lynching article passed first. Congrats, BTW. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks, I was thrilled to see that get promoted. I wonder if Raul would ever let it be TFA? I'll ask him when he gets back from his wikibreak. The lynching article did pass quicker than Sadler, but I did have to remove some images and one reviewer wanted me to remove most of the critical commentary, so I had a couple bumps with those. All I've gotten on Sadler is a few wording suggestions--hope it stays that way! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Fingers crossed! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
        • I emailed you, BTW, nothing crucial. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
          • Alright, I'll check it out. BTW, I plan on nominating Chinese Indonesians at FA soon, now that the RfA is over. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:16, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
            • I'll keep my eye open. Might want to have one more person copyedit it before nominating though. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:17, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
              • Oops. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
                • Ehh, I tend to be overcautious about such things, so I wouldn't worry. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:35, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Chinese Indonesians

  • Greetings Mark Arsten, this is a notice to inform you that Chinese Indonesians, an article which you have previously reviewed at the PR, GA, or FA level, has been nominated at FAC. Should you wish to participate, it would be welcome. Thank you. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I'll try to review it soon. You might want to ping PumpkinSky about about a review, he's fairly knowledgeable about Southeast Asia, I believe. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • As he was not previously involved with the article, I'd worry that that would be considered canvassing. :-( — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:29, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I wouldn't think it would be a problem, but I understand your hesitancy. Well, in any case, he has an FAC five slots below yours, so there's a good chance he'll see it anyway. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


LMAO - he just has to remember to avoid Tar baby. :-D Chedzilla (talk) 01:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

lol, yeah, that one would have been more relevant to the present. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:41, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Actually though - I always wondered where some of the names came from - and since I didn't know anything about Rangda and Barong (mythology) - it's given me things to read up on and learn. Pretty cool - thanks. Chedzilla (talk) 01:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Welcome, he does come up with some fascinating names, for sure. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:00, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, yeah. Indonesian mythology has lots of interesting stuff. Check out the origin story for Batara Kala — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that is quite interesting, would be fascinating to work on a mythology article like that. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Mhm, but certainly a lot of work. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:54, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Indigo Children

Changes made to the page for Indigo Children were not commentary or personal analysis. Changes were words of truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lpicket (talkcontribs) 23:59, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree with your opinion, but when you add content like that, you need to add a reliable source confirming your comment. You might want to discuss it on the article's talk page, as well. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Yippi Ki A

So Tiberus is an A-class article, eh? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I'll probably send him to FAC pretty soon, just haven't gotten around to it yet. I don't have any external links in his article though--hope it can still pass! Kinda reminds me of the Rfa in which a guy with two FAs was told by one opposer to come back after he wrote some did you knows. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the GA review, BTW. Are you fine with me referring to him as Clarence 13X throughout the article? I went back and forth a few times on that one. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You don't plan on calling him just 13X, do you? That's just wrong. With Sys NS I used the first name, but that's fine in Indonesian cultures; the talk page has an editor who complains about the use of Clarence. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, 13X wouldn't work since that wasn't really a surname, although that did occur to me. I used the Malcolm X page as a guide, since it's a featured article. It refers to him as "Little" until he joined the NOI and then stuck with "Malcolm X". Mark Arsten (talk) 15:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You like short, fairly complete articles? This one is interesting, even from an objective standpoint. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that does look pretty good. I'm glad to have Clarence 13X as a good article now, nice to have a story like his to counteract all those white supremacists I've been writing about. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:31, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Mhm. I think "Kidung Abadi" is ready; it was pretty much a one-off song, but got a lot of media coverage. Doesn't even sound like a Frankenstine creation. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:40, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that does look good. I'll try to post an FAC review for Chinese Indonesians soon, just got to finish up one more review from the bottom of the page. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Just saw this article, a good reminder to double check sources--sometimes there are more than one person with the same name out there. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Hmm. I seem to have the greatest internet presence of people with my name. Mind you, my family name redirects to some obscure record company. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Have you considered corporate sponsorship? Mark Arsten (talk) 15:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Of course not! Eh, what do you think of this? I'm confused. Is Lingnut considering opposition because it does not refer to a single Chinese ethnic group? If so, I wonder what his feedback on African American; there's quite a few tribes and ethnic groups being "casually grouped" there. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:29, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Ethnicity can be a tough area to write about--it provokes strong feelings from a lot of people. That being said, I tried reading his comments but got confused around the time his butt cheeks clenched. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll say. The lead sentence itself has exploded in verbosity since the FAC. Old: "Chinese Indonesians or Indonesian Chinese are Indonesians of Chinese – particularly Han – descent, who emigrated to Indonesia or the former Dutch East Indies colony; this migration was done both directly and through Maritime Southeast Asia." Current: "Chinese Indonesians, previously known as the Indonesian Chinese, are Indonesian descended from various Chinese ethnic groups – particularly Han – descent; this includes both those who immigrated to Indonesia or the former Dutch East Indies colony. This migration was done both directly and through Maritime Southeast Asia."  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

David Klavins

thanks for the coRRectins! are my commas okay? i'm always unsure... Maximilian (talk) 14:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

No problem, commas look ok at a glace. Also, try to avoid "don't" in favor of "do not" though. I'll make a few copyedits to the article. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

re William S. Sadler


Sorry to keep fiddling with it, but there are things that bother me about it. The time sequences, for example, don't match up in the lede. (He started practicing in 1907, but the "Career" section says 1912, for example.) Also, I don't really understand what the Urantia book's "teaching" were about? Was it "holistic" living stuff or was it about what people from Mars think? Also, what were the 40 books he wrote about? Sort of a Norman Vincent Peele thing combined with healthy eating? And how did he become involved with a magician? Don't want to bother you. So forgive me. MathewTownsend (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional comments. I tried to clarify the first issue, the 1912 is the date that he's known to have been operating a joint practice by, not the date he started practicing medicine. That wasn't really clear before. As far as the Urantia book's teachings, the impression that I've gotten (I haven't read the book itself) is that a lot of it deals with science fiction type order of the universe, but a lot of it reads like apocryphal books of the bible. I'm just flipping through it on Google books now, the part I opened to describes the legislature and educational system of "the most advanced human race" living in the "Satania system" that has "a history most like that of Urantia [Earth]". So I think the moral lessons are kinda weaved into the midst of the Star Trek/Bible stories. I think his books were mostly about self help, think Your Best Life Now is the impression I've gotten. Although he also wrote about actual psychiatry and "racial hygiene" on the side. As far as how he got linked up with Thurston and Houdini, I really don't know. My hunch is that one of his professor friends introduced them, but I haven't found a source for that. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:15, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Bloody Bill at FAC

OK, this post is just because you like the other sig. Jack likes sigs...

Sincerely, Street-Legal Sockpuppet  Br'erRabbit this user is a sock puppet 05:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh man, that's good. At bit long, but quite good. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:24, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
👍 Like -- ►►—Dianna—► (Talk) 05:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
How deep does it go?  Br'erRabbit  05:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Whoa, I have got to cut back on those mushrooms I've been eating. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I wish I had taken the blue pill now... Mark Arsten (talk) 19:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I'z upside down... and I'z supportz de bloodie man — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Citation help

Hey chief. I was wondering if you'd be able to help me figure out to cite a source. I've uncovered another snippet about Project A119 in a paper Carl Sagan wrote for the United States National Research Council, available on Google Books. But without an ISBN, journal title, DOI, etc, I'm not really sure how to actually format it as a citation. I figure you've hoofed together enough featured content to have a better grasp of these things than I do. Any ideas? GRAPPLE X 20:18, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, good find. That is a tricky one, I can tell you what I'd do, hopefully it will be a good way of doing it. (Switch depending if you're using {{Citation}} or {{Cite book}} templates)
  • {{citation |last=Sagan |first=Carl |authorlink=Carl Sagan |title=Organic Matter and the Moon |year=1961 |publisher=[[United States National Research Council]] |oclc=1335482}}
Does that look good/make sense? Mark Arsten (talk) 20:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Looks solid to me. I was tinkering with Cite journal but that seems a better option. Thanks! I might get round to solving the systemic bias against featured moon-bombing articles some day, you know. I should be able to start giving Clarence a review tonight or tomorrow evening if you keep prodding me. GRAPPLE X 21:57, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Lol, thanks, good luck with that. I'll try to remember to prod you! Mark Arsten (talk) 23:44, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
  • PROD? Please don't! We need more X-Files articles — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, if the PROD is contested, I'll have to take him to WP:EFD. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess so. BTW, I deleted one of the images you uploaded >:-)  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, I honestly forgot you were an admin for a second there. I'll have to start begging you for more user rights now, so people will respect me... Mark Arsten (talk) 01:29, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
User rights? All your user rights are belong to me.
Another side note: Star Wars is either a film or a franchise, not a show. Star Trek should generally either be show or franchise... I think the films are referred to by number. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:33, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, good point. I am going to have a world of cleanup to do on that article. I was just laughing about the user rights, there are some users who are on a desperate quest to get autopatrolled, and I can't for the life of me figure out what is the big deal about it. It just means you articles come up as white instead of yellow on newpages. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Eh, are all your scripts working? A couple seem to have died on me. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:34, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, they seem to be working. I recall seeing something on the village pump about software changes possibly causing issues, not sure if it's connected. I had trouble loading Wikipedia a couple times a half hour ago, got some error screen. Prolly nothing major. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Hmm... odd. Chrome works, Firefox doesn't. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Firefox updated to v13.0 the other day…  Br'erRabbit  03:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Wish they'd stop doing that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:31, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
WUT? It's goodness; makes the bad-old-versions go-way.  Br'erRabbit  04:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • They've had something like 7 releases in the past year. Some things get broken. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
They're releasing every six weeks; things get fixed, too. You can turn updates off in prefs (not recommended). Not so, with Chrome; in their TOS. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 05:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • If it screws up like last time I will. (Wasn't loading pages right) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

John Sutton V

John de Sutton V (c. 1380–1406)was the father of John Sutton, 1st Baron Dudley, (1400–1487), Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. This redirects to his son -- which is NOT him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:21, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, that sounds correct. If you think the redirect should be deleted, please use WP:RFD instead of simply blanking the page. Thanks! Mark Arsten (talk) 03:24, 9 June 2012 (UTC), a redirect need not imply that the terms are synonyms - just that information on the subject is to be found on the page to which the reader is directed. This is not infrequently done when a non-notable person has a notable child on whose page they are mentioned, the case here. Agricolae (talk) 06:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, my "sounds correct" comment was about John Sutton being the son of John de Sutton, I guess that wasn't clear. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Corn stove rollback

That's ok. I had to clean up that edit anyway since I didn't have the redirect syntax correct. --Aflafla1 (talk) 21:43, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, cool. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

April Fools

Have you been thinking about this yet? I have. Here's what I have so far.

  1. ... that Maia Estianty was of queens, inspired by queen, but not a queen?
  2. ... that Chrisye sang a new song, "Eternal Ballad", five years after his death?
  3. ... that Chrisye performed a new song, "Eternal Ballad", five years after his death?
  4. ... that Christina Aguilera had "Sex for Breakfast" with "slow jam" and "honey dip"?

What do you think? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The last would be my favorite, but the first is pretty good too. Would comment more, tired from following all the Basketball tonight. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
hey, I'm happy (estatic) about the basketball. Not you? MathewTownsend (talk) 04:19, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
lol, yes, I would imagine that you'd be. I'm not terribly into Basketball these days so it's not too big a deal to me, but yes, I was rooting for the other team, so I wasn't too thrilled. Spending over 5 hours in the car today tired me out a bit too. Oh well, hopefully I'll be back at full steam tomorrow. I've been working on a sandbox draft of an article, and it's turning out to be pretty long, longer than Anderson even. Turns out there was a lot of stuff written about Heaven's Gate. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I was thinking of an old book on psychedelics and Tim Leary, Harvard, Andy Weill etc. which I thought was called Heaven's Gate but perhaps was reprinted in 2011 as The Harvard Psychedelic Club: How Timothy Leary, Ram Dass, Huston Smith, and Andrew Weil Killed the Fifties and Ushered in a New Age for America. Not sure. I have the old book downloaded on an old computer that probably I can't access any more. Guess the meaning of "Heaven's Gate" has changed. Shows what world I live in! MathewTownsend (talk) 18:42, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Huh, that sounds like a pretty interesting book, might make a nice DYK. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Guess you need some rest. *cue lullaby* — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Sleep doesn't come easy to me, as is apparent if you look at my editing hours and time zone :) Mark Arsten (talk) 05:08, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • lol, I have heard of that one, haven't actually watched it though. Maybe I'll give it a try. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Although I wonder what the point of the porn and metal are. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:27, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess that's to stop it from getting too boring? Mark Arsten (talk) 05:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Counterproductive, but okay. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:56, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm gonna pester you, get your mind off basketball. Like ?? Up for review here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:31, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
? (film) was my first GA review! MathewTownsend (talk) 15:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah? You did quite a few in December 2011 (something like 15, I think). Well, I pumped it up by about 5k characters today. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Regarding page Wahhabi

Hi there, thanks for your enforcement of WP:NPOV to maintain neutrality on Wikipedia. Could you possibly help me find some way of preventing User:Organometalic1 from persistently vandalising the page, he seems to be either oblivious to the warnings or enjoys wasting other peoples time. Thanks Sakimonk (talk) 02:17, 11 June 2012 (UTC) He has persistently repeated the same violating edit about 13 times. Sakimonk (talk) 02:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, glad to help. The best thing to do would be to report him to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring, if he's persistently revert warring. There's sometimes a bit of a wait there. Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism is much quicker, it's supposed to be clear vandalism there (non-vandals can be reported to the edit warring noticeboard if they revert four times in a day). Mark Arsten (talk) 02:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much I'll look into it. Sakimonk (talk) 02:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC) Ah, it seems my actions have been preempted - he has already been reported there Sakimonk (talk) 02:46, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Huh, he's been reported to both, redundancy is good, I guess. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:55, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Haha you're right, I hadn't realised. The dispute could easily have been resolved on the talk page if User: Organometalic1 was sensible enough. Sakimonk (talk) 03:05, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I sometimes wonder what edit warriors are thinking, it's not like everyone else is just going to give up and let them have their preferred version! Mark Arsten (talk) 03:18, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Exactly, thanks for all your help! Sakimonk (talk) 03:59, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

You won't believe this! The guy is at it again!!! Sakimonk (talk) 01:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I guess you're right good thing he did get blocked indefinitely this time thanks again! Sakimonk (talk) 04:13, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Glad to help. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyedits to List of diving hazards and precautions

Hi Mark, I don't wish to sound unappreciative of your efforts to improve the spelling and formatting at List of diving hazards and precautions, but have you any idea of how much more difficult it is to find the right place when editing a large table when the spaces between the rows have been deleted? Is it actually a WP policy to remove blank lines and extra spaces at the end of lines? Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I was running AWB to correct typos, the software removing the extra spaces wasn't part of my goal. I very seldom work with tables and know very little about them, so I've reverted most of my edit there. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Mark, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:02, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Time for an FA review?

I've submitted an article for FA consideration ... I know you have some experience in historical articles, so could you consider reviewing it? It is at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Smith Act trials of Communist Party leaders/archive1. It is a provocative and interesting event in history. Cheers. --Noleander (talk) 14:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure, will do. I never got to Pi before it was promoted, so I'll jump on this one. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Twitter issue

As you had participated in the previous AfD, your views would be welcome here Talk:Use_of_Twitter_by_celebrities_and_politicians#Proposal_to_merge. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 16:24, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


Karl Johanssvamp, Iduns kokbok.jpg Thanks
Thank you for your review of Hygrophorus olivaceoalbus. Much appreciated! :) GoPTCN 20:12, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You're welcome, thanks for your translation work! Mark Arsten (talk) 20:14, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
    • If I weren't so lazy I would translate the Russian version of Indonesia (the 12 largest page in ruwiki) to the enwiki, but unfortunately it is already featured here.--GoPTCN 20:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Wow that is a huge page. Does usually cover Indonesian subjects well? Mark Arsten (talk) 20:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
        • Most of the members there hold a strong inclusionist philosophy. There are not many Indonesia-related articles with featured or good status; but there are still pretty decent articles, including [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27]. Regards--GoPTCN 20:38, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
          • Interesting, if you ever do feel like translating some of them, you should ping Crisco 1492, he'd be thrilled to have someone else adding content about Indonesia. One Russian topic that really appeals to me is Jesus of Siberia, that would be a very fun article to work on. I saw a TV show about him a few weeks back, quite the interesting guy. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
            • Unfortunately I am not so good at translating from Russian to English, and the articles are too large; I will see if I can translate the more smaller articles. PS: Did you ever read The Extraordinary Adventures of Julio Jurenito and His Disciples: Monsieur Delet, Karl Schmidt, Mr. Cool, Aleksey Tishin, Ercole Bambucci, Ilya Ehrenburg, and Aysha the Negro, in Days of Peace, War and Revolution, in Paris, Mexico, Rome, Senegal, Kineshma, Moscow, and Other Places, as well as diverse Opinions of the TEACHER about Pipes, about Death, about Love, about Freedom, about the Game of Chess, about the Tribe of Judah, about Constructivism, and about Numerous Other Matters?
              • No, I can't say I have, is it a good book? Mark Arsten (talk) 21:17, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
                • I tl;dr the title... You know, Jesus of Siberia does sound right up your alley Mark. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
                  • Yeah, it really does. Traffic cop turned Messiah, almost like the music teacher turned Messiah I'm reading about now. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Clarence 13X

Yngvadottir (talk) 08:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting article. Never heard of that guy before until now, but the aforementioned statement seems to be correct...--GoPTCN 08:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I hadn't heard of him until a couple months ago. I had heard of his group though, since there were some big court cases a few years ago about them. The prison system was keeping them from holding services by claiming that they were a "gang" rather than a "religion", but the courts held that their freedom of religion was being violated. Interesting Church vs State situation. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I've been having a look over the article (slowly, granted) and I'm not seeing anything jumping out at me. Granted I'm not the best reviewer so someone with a keener eye might see something, but all I can think of is the dispersal of bolded terms in the lead—would it be possible to bring them up to the first sentence so that the instances of "Clarence 13X" and "Allah" that are currently bolded could be in plain text? Just a minor thing for me, and if it would create an unwieldy opening then ignore it. GRAPPLE X 13:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that's a good point. No worries if you don't get to post comments. TRM just gave me a few to work on. My next project is going to be on Heaven's Gate, so you might want to save your energy to help on that one :) It turns out they were big fans of the X-Files, really. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Vector (artiste) nomination

The page has been previously nominated and deleted but I recently created a draft that i've been working on here - . I also got help from one of your staffs in getting to this stage and he gave me the go ahead to put this up. ref - — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seandbadest (talkcontribs) 12:58, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, Vector (artiste) is still up--so you can work on the article itself without need for a sandbox, although it is often a good idea to work in a sandbox before moving content into an article. It looks like there are a few interviews and articles that mention him [28][29][30]. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:59, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

FAC comments addressed

Thanks for the review at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Smith Act trials of Communist Party leaders/archive1. I've implemented all of your suggestions. Let me know if you think more needs to be done. --Noleander (talk) 20:13, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, will do. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:18, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The Slightly Gruesome Award

StillLifeWithASkull.jpg The Slightly Gruesome Award
Belated congratulations on getting the rather gruesomely illustrated Lynching of Jesse Washington to FA. Pity I didn't find the time to help more, but nice to see it made it. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:19, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your barnstar, and the comments. I didn't realize there was a slightly gruesome award--I'll have to keep this one handy. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:21, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Paul McCartney FAC (dupe thread)

The article is much improved since your last comment, and your input would be appreciated at the Paul McCartney FAC. — GabeMc (talk) 03:01, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that one. I'll see if I can get around to it this week. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:09, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Redemptoris Mater Chapel

TY for the corrections!

No problem! Mark Arsten (talk) 15:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Mark Arsten. Please check your email – you've got mail!
Message added 07:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

Shrike (talk) 07:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Got it and replied, thanks. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Yogo FAC

Unless you have new ones, I think we have all your issues fixed. PumpkinSky talk 22:09, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I will take another look tomorrow, might be a couple more things to mention. Looks great though thus far. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Whacked at your latest comments. Good points, thanks.PumpkinSky talk 19:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Alright, good job on this one, bet it took a lot of effort! Mark Arsten (talk) 19:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it has been! And thanks! PumpkinSky talk 19:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
The result is today's good story (hidden message: "open mind"), - you awesome Wikipedian of 22 April 2012 ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it was really nice to see that on the main page when I got up this morning :) Mark Arsten (talk) 16:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


Trophy.png You got rape!
enjoy! Benmace (talk) 01:48, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh thank you, this is quite an honor. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Mark ARSEten RAPE. Hahahahahahahahaha! (talk) 19:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Thank you for pointing that out, I should make that my signature from now on. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:45, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
        • You're welcome :) Glad to see some wikipedians do actually have a sense of humour! (talk) 19:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
          • Yeah, I try to keep things light when I can :) Mark Arsten (talk) 19:52, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Dostoyevsky peer review


I invite you to participate in this peer review. Any help appreciated! Regards.--GoPTCN 21:15, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, that's quite an important article. I'll try to stop by. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Louisville Male High School

I am a proud graduate of Louisville Male High School. You reversed all the hard work I have put in to attempting to make the alumni section look better on wikipedia. Please stop interfering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captainlibrarian (talkcontribs) 17:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I believe you're mistaken, I didn't reverse all your edits, just one. This is the edit I made to the page, it appeared to me that you had made a formatting error. It seems like you've fixed the table now, so I won't revert again. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


Thank you for undoing my edit. My connection timed out so the uploading was stopped and a big part of the article got lost.--IMPOSSIBLEMAN 02:07, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh ok, no problem then. I hate when I lose a connection. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:08, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the peer review! Glad you liked it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
    • No problem. BTW, if you're looking for an interesting read, try the Earl of Lucan article at FAC. One of the most interesting articles I've read in a while. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:24, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
      • I'll take a look after I'm satisfied with the portal. Not much left, methinks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


I saw that you did a preliminary review of the New Forest pony FA, we got a little bogged down fixing some technical issues (horse genetics, can I tell you all about them?) but it's all sorted now. Lead editor Pesky has a lot of stuff IRL to deal with, so I'm trying to call out the cavalry to get the ball rolling on the FAR for the article and see if we can now give her that nice gold star! Can you pop back over and review? Montanabw(talk) 21:30, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I haven't looked at it in a while, I'll pop back over there. I heard Pesky had a death in the family, really sad. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Team Barnstar Hires.png The Teamwork Barnstar
For your outstanding support and dedication in getting Yogo sapphire from a new article to DYK to GA to FA and FOUR. The team effort of the uncountable people involved in getting this unique article to FA is a textbook case of teamwork in article improvement, ie, what Wikipedia should be, not what it all too often is. I can never thank everyone enough. PumpkinSky talk 23:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


"How can you be a featured article, and your murderer be a featured article, when I am but a B?" – James T. Kirk, commander of the Starship Enterprise; stardate 4045.5

Congrats! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:41, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! You know, Kirk would be a good target in the Core Contest, if he's "Core" enough. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Core in science fiction, certainly. Not in general :-( On Season 3 now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
  • BTW, I think you may be interested in Sudirman (just to read, no need to review, although if you see any glaring mistakes I'd appreciate if you fix them). He was a one-lunged school principal who became the first head of the Indonesian army at age 29 (after only two years of military experience), beating a man who had been soldiering since before Sudirman was born. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Sounds interesting, that sure is a long article. Must have taken a while to write. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, long-ish. About 9 days, most of it establishing the framework. I was lucky that I had easy access to sources. I want at least one more biography of him before this goes to FAC (I've emptied the provincial library's stock, might try the city or Gadjah Mada's next. My alma mater may have something too). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Accedie's talk page.

Also, every time I go to your talk page, there's a picture of Captain Kirk here waiting for me. Without fail! Accedietalk to me 02:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

lol, that is pretty funny now that you mention it. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:53, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

The congratulations are to you!


Sorry that I slacked back and didn't help out more. But thank you for so graciously putting my name on the nomination! (I've had a hard time lately, struggling with bad feelings about wikipedia. I know the solution is to just ignore everything and concentrate on content, and that's what I'm doing now, mostly on GAN. FAC makes my head spin!) You have a wonderful ability to keep your head above it all!

Congratulations to you. I hope I get the chance to work on another of your articles. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 22:22, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, we're glad to have you here. Yeah, this place can be annoying sometimes, I won't argue with you there. But good to hear you're back at GAN, some people think that in terms of cost vs benefit that's more valuable for the project than FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Louie B. Nunn

Louie B. Nunn, an article you peer reviewed for me a while back, is now at FAC. You asked to be notified once I put it up for FA. I hope you will have time to give it another look and register a !vote. Thanks. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 12:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Ok, review has been posted. That was easy reading. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Glad you found it so. I felt the section on his divorce and his relationship to his son was difficult to organize properly, but if you didn't have any trouble following it, I must have done something right. Thanks for the review. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Yeah, I don't recall any issues with it, but I'll check that part again before supporting, just in case. There are a ton of articles that have been nominated at FAC in the past week, I want to review 9 or 10 of them but I don't have anywhere near the time or energy. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Doc Adams FAC review

Hello, Mark. I went through the comments you provided at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doc Adams/archive1 and responded as best I could. Thanks for taking the time to carefully vet the article, and please let me know if you have any other comments, or further suggestions regarding your earlier comments. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to make it back there tomorrow. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Georg Solti FA

On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for editorial efforts that helped Georg Solti become a WP:FA.

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Am I obsessed?

Yet another Chrisye list.... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

  • I replied on my talk page. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:12, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm more or less done, but not moving it to main space yet as I have to go work. Enjoy! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


I've addressed all of your points at the featured article nomination page. Thanks! TAP 16:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

  • More on my talk. TAP 17:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Arthur Mold FAC

I'm not sure you are a cricketer (although, there's hope for all of us!) but your comments on the Hedley Verity article were extremely helpful. I noticed you commented on the Doc Adams article at FAC, so, if you are feeling sporty, I'd appreciate it if you could have a look at the Arthur Mold FAC here. Not a problem if you have neither the time nor the inclination, I quite understand! Sarastro1 (talk) 17:11, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You know, I actually read the lead and the first section of the article last week, but didn't get around to reviewing the rest. So yes, I'll try to post a review... unless it's promoted before then :) Mark Arsten (talk) 17:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Paul McCartney FAC

I could really use some help on the prose and punctuation at the current Paul McCartney FAC, assuming you are too busy to help, is there anyone you can suggest that may be willing to pitch-in a few copyedits? ~ GabeMc (talk) 23:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, let's see, in the past User:Rothorpe & User:Accedie have been willing to copyedit pretty quickly. You might try asking User:Diannaa, I'm not sure if she copyedits on request much, but she might be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck! Mark Arsten (talk) 00:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes, User:Noleander has gotten me out of a couple tight spots in the past too. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:05, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the help Mark, and the referrals! ~ GabeMc (talk) 04:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
The article is much improved due to the hundreds of copyedits and dozens of suggestions, a good deal by the editors you referred to me above, so thanks much for that. They helped out quite a bit. Having said that, I was hoping you could find the time to go over the article once more, maybe spot any Harv errors that exist or whatever, and hopefully, !vote. If you are too busy, I certainly understand. Cheers! ~ GabeMc (talk) 01:51, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome, glad to see that things are going well there. I've read 3 or so sections, I've been meaning to do more but the heat has been sapping my energy. Hopefully tomorrow. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:00, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Mark, much appreciated. Yes, the heat has been sapping me also. ~ GabeMc (talk) 02:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the copyedits Mark, nice catch too, "baking babies", how ridiculous! ~ GabeMc (talk) 06:06, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm curious, at this point, what's preventing your support? ~ GabeMc (talk) 01:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Will you at least suggest a few areas for me to work on? ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 04:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

  • The Paul McCartney article has now been thoroughly copyedited top-to-bottom by numerous editors including User:Lfstevens, a member of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. If you can find the time in your busy schedule, please consider stopping by and taking a look, and hopefully, !voting. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 04:23, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
    • It looks like things are moving ahead well at this point, I'm really impressed with your tenacity here. I've been really lazy lately, but I might get to it. If you don't mind my asking, how did you like Lfstevens' copyedit? He's done a couple of my articles in the past. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:34, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
I thought Lfstevens was fantastic. They corrected the grammatical errors, and they confirmed what material needed to be demoted to notes, so the article is shorter and it reads better now. Please find the time to take another look, its much shorter now with the all the excess details moved into notes. Oppose if you must, but at least !vote. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 04:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Lazy eh, Mark? You're still doing more anti-vandal work than me. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, I certainly won't be opposing, I can confirm that right now. Actually, my previous reluctance to dive in to the article was partly due to the amount of ongoing activity (busiest FAC in a while), with multiple copyeditors and pruning going on. I'm fairly sure this will be promoted sooner or later, having a delegate stop by was a good sign. @Crisco Yeah, I guess laziness is a relative term, my last 500 edits only go back three days. I've been doing some reading for an interesting new project too. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I've created or co-created 4 articles in the past two days and am translating Albertus Soegijapranata; it should be my ninth Indonesian FA. BTW, check out this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
  • That's really funny, seeing as there was an ani thread a couple days ago about a user who had a picture of a middle finger on his talk page. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:17, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

re Brushstrokes series - four non-free images also

Hey, thanks! Also, that article has four non free images. Generally only one with a very good rationale is justified. Maybe I'll be daring and remove three of them. Those a copyrighted! And wikipedia is going to display them for free? MathewTownsend (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, good point. I'm pretty brain dead about images in general, probably since I'm used to FAC where we have dedicated image reviewers. That was a real screw-up on my part. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Ra.One FAC

Hello. You seem to have dropped the FAC of Ra.One after your one comment and a "quick look". I would be happier if you would say something concrete, like Support/Oppose, even Leaning Support/Oppose. Its not very encouraging, and i know that this article has had a number of FACs before, but I don't think that should grind this one to the ground. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 18:49, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to soon. You might want to ping people that have reviewed it in the past too. Good luck, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I'll try to read it by this weekend. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Just three hours later and you can't do it? Fine, I'll contact editors and reviewers who have the tenacity to go through FA reviews. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 12:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, it's not that I can't do it, but I don't find film articles very interesting so I'd only be able to do a half-hearted job with it. Mark Arsten (talk) 13:04, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Actually, you might enjoy reviewing it, you like Asian cinema, right? Mark Arsten (talk) 13:44, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I shuddered looking at those tables. Sorry Ankitbhatt! I note with joy that you and a couple other editors trimmed the article almost by half! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:04, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────There are only two tables in the entire article. Anyways, no point asking since there is such a marked lack of interest. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 04:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, hope the rest of the FAC goes smoothly. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi There!

Could you review a DYK nomination for me? Thanks whatever happens! TAP 19:04, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, sure, I guess so. If it's too urgent though, you might want to find someone else--I'm logging off now, and won't be back online until about 23:30 UTC at the earliest. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/The Dupont Hotel and Template:Did you know nominations/The Melrose Hotel are my latest unreviewed (5 on page now). TAP 19:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Writing articles about hotels? I take it you've been hanging out with Dr. Blofeld lately. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:25, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Aye. According to toolserver, I've edited that page 139 times. Issues addressed. TAP 06:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Addressed again. :) TAP 07:04, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


Template:Did you know nominations/The Dupont Hotel. Thanks! TAP 13:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Done again. TAP 16:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

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Peer review for Dan Leno discography

Hi, Mark. Cassianto and I have put the Dan Leno discography up for peer review here. We would like to improve this to FL and would be grateful for any and all comments! -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:56, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not much of a list guy, but sure, I'll check it out. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Mark for your attention on the above. Your changes look good. We are not really listy editors either but it seemed a bit of a shame to let it rot somewhere in list class. :-) -- CassiantoTalk 07:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
No problem, I didn't come up with anything to mention on the PR, just those copyediting changes. Always a pleasure to read a well written article like that. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

I wanted to thank you for supporting me at RfA. In particular because it made me chuckle and smile; when needed the most. My76Strat (talk) 03:26, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

You're very welcome, glad you liked it :) I think you would have done a better job than most admins, although I guess that's damning by faint praise... Anyway, it really is too bad how much of a mess Rfa can be. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Mark, the process could be improved and the berating, hostile nature tempered, should enough of the right kind of editors assert themselves. ~ GabeMc (talk) 03:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I suppose so, we can't just sit around and expect the problems to fix themselves... Wiki-drama can get so irritating, sometimes I just have to ignore it all and think about fused participles and comma splices. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
True, however, ignored problems are unsolved ones, e.g. I could still use some help with fused participles and comma splices at Paul McCartney, *chuckle*. ~ GabeMc (talk) 03:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I was just looking at that--tough FAC but it seems you have a couple supports. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
True, not too bad, but with over 600 editors watching the article and 8000 views per day, I expected more traffic at the FAC. I don't mind the tough FAC, it's the errors in the article that I cannot see that bother me. I need fresh eyes more skilled than I (shouldn't be hard to find) at the fine art of grammar. ~ GabeMc (talk) 04:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


I dug up an English language source, as well as another which has been translated (although I got the Indonesian version)... should find its way to FAC quickly, methinks.

I plan to start on the bishop article today. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting, I'll keep watch. Just getting to your new Chrisye article now. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


I've given Marshall Applewhite a GA review, you can see it here, or alternatively wait for the 12-part video series. GRAPPLE X 02:57, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

lol, thanks for the review, and the humor. I'll try to get on that tomorrow, and I'll make sure I have their theme music playing. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Texans are weird

I just had to let you know that I'm copyediting Marshall Applewhite while on the road somewhere in Texas, driving to visit family (well, I'm not driving and editing, obviously, but I'm in a car), and I find this a highly appropriate backdrop to the article. That is all :) Accedietalk to me 03:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Ohh, that does sound quite fitting. I've never been to Texas, but I've heard stories... Thanks for your help on Applewhite, I always appreciate the help with copyediting. I'm pretty happy with how the article's coming along. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:27, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, that oughtta oil 'er up. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Marshall Applewhite PR

Hey Mark. I'd be more than willing to offer some comments at the PR. I'll probably get around to starting a review tomorrow; hope this is OK. And thanks for the congratulations. Feels good to finally write an FA after a long time here! You were one of the many editors who helped out on the way, and I'm grateful for that. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, glad to hear it. I look forward to the review. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:26, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


If you want to peek, it's almost done. Gonna be over 30k characters once I finish the lede. (Have another source coming tomorrow, then I'm going to hit the online sources). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:09, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

In my experience writing about a Catholic bishop they're good targets to write about. Usually a lot of information and not-so-much controversy, in most cases anyway. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:59, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Bernard Law would be controversial, for sure. That would be an interesting article to write though. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:04, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that would be a doozy. The main difficulty I'm having is with the vocab; a lot of these words I've never come across, in English or in Indonesian. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:14, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Think the llama needs to be at the main page... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:13, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh yes, it is needed there. Another guy started complaining about Michigan-centric DYKs right after too. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Definitely. Wonder why nobody ever complains about Indonesia-related stuff? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Apparently they know better than to mess with you :) Mark Arsten (talk) 00:55, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Or maybe I keep it too varied. Did you know... that films were made in Indonesia as early as 1932? (actually, 1926, but I didn't write that one) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that is pretty early, interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Indeed. That Biran book was the best $8 I ever spent (although there's another that talks about the political situation in the period as it relates to film, I'll have to track it down). BTW, the bishop's article is ready... and long. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow, that's the same size as Applewhite's article. I'll try to read it soon, just after I finish the review of Grapple's FAC. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:17, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • I really should look into his FAC. Maybe later today. (Mine seems dead in the water, 3 s 1 o) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:20, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, three supports and one oppose puts it in a kind of "limbo". Wonder how that will turn out. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • At least it had a better showing than last time. First nomination was pretty bad. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:30, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
    • ^ Knight, Les U. "SUCCESS". Voluntary Human Extinction Movement Official Website.