User talk:Marketdiamond

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References to the Devil and Baltimore[edit]

Hi. I'm not sure if your account was hacked, but you appear to have added some poorly-formatted information and references to articles involving Baltimore and references to the Devil. I've removed them because they fail WP:V and are just really bizarre coming from such an experienced editor. Thanks, epicAdam(talk) 18:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

epicAdam, I thank you for your concern. I'm not certain if you clicked the cited reference, it is a bit of a needle in a haystack. Here is a direct video link [1] the piece is at 15:40 and only lasts a minute or so. "Bizarre" is right, I almost coughed up my lunch when I was watching it on C-SPAN earlier today. I guess the old rule of thumb that every edit should have a citation but not every citation should require an edit holds true on this one. My sincere apologies, no harm intended but as a massive history buff to the extent that history (truth) is stranger and more fascinating then any fiction Hollywood or the like can come up with, I thought that this document, that it was retained, that it was described in the collection by a government clerk as such (in 1864), and then showcased by the head of the archives without C-SPAN even challenging him on it (accepting it as true?), what a citation. I'll defer to your demonstrated familiarity with Baltimore and honor your removals, but I do ask if you ever catch something on the level of a C-SPAN or the National Archives about Pittsburgh by all means edit away, I'd love to read/view the source. Again not meant in bad taste, but if you are truly concerned you may want to contact C-SPAN and the Archives, to be the "only" gets history buffs like me truly interested. Marketdiamond (talk) 19:07, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks for the reply. The first time I checked, the link to NARA came up dead, but given the content I didn't try to look any further. I see the video you're talking about and that's quite amazing. But as it is, it's a satirical letter that has only the slightest relation to Baltimore. I have re-added the information to the article on the Devil, since it is an interesting piece of American history. It could also maybe be applied to the article on Jefferson Davis. And just for future reference, you can cite a video using Template:Cite video, and include a time reference so people know exactly where to look! Glad your account wasn't hacked. Best, epicAdam(talk) 20:58, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for those suggestions, I will work on those. Marketdiamond (talk) 20:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Art Rooney & the Penguins?[edit]

You recently added a section to the Art Rooney article noting that he was a minority owner of the Pens for a short period. However, the article you cited doesn't appear to state this, but only that Rooney called in some favors to get the expansion franchise awarded to Pittsburgh. As I have never heard Rooney owning a portion of the Pens, despite doing a fair bit of reading on the man and on the Steelers franchise, I call into question the veracity of these statements. Unless you can provide a legitimate citation that shows that Rooney took an ownership stake in the next few days, I intend to edit the article and will likely remove this Pens section from the Rooney article. — DeeJayK (talk) 15:02, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for asking before deleting, however if you read the right sidebar on the link you will notice a listing of the original investors in the Pens franchise, which will read: Russell Byers

Robert J. Dodds

W.D. George III

H.J. Heinz III

Art Rooney Sr.

Clint Childs

Charles Cross

Richard Frame

Ira Gordon

Toby Hillard

Henry Hillman

Jerome B. Lieber

Charles Lockhart

Charles Muse

Thomas Nimick

Richard M. Scaife

William Snyder IV

William Standish IV

George Wyckoff

Rooney's share was probably not that large at all, and from what I can tell the owner in name Jack McGregor was more a civic leader and politician then a deep pocketed franchise founder, thus selling his controlling interest out within the first two seasons. In a lot of ways this was a very early type of co-op along the lines of the Pittsburgh Associates with the Pirates. That said, even though on paper Rooney's share would be a guestimate of 1/10th or less, his influence of sealing the deal deserves a mention and section on his wikipedia article. The source including its right infobox I feel is more than sufficient as a citation, however I will see if there is anything else. Being that he was a fractional minority owner 40 years ago, any newssource is likely to be just a passing mention, if you feel the need to edit the section to better reflect his influence and downplay his steak that might be useful, however I would be against deleting the section all together. Marketdiamond (talk) 20:57, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification and the additional citations. I'm sorry for not noticing the roster of investors in the original reference. — DeeJayK (talk) 17:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Glad to be able to clarify, and very much appreciate your taking the time to notify me of your concerns before deleting or editing. Thanks again. Marketdiamond (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Formatting references[edit]

Please take a moment and read through Help:Footnotes. I noticed you're adding footnotes to articles ([2], [3], [4]) but you are not using the <ref> tags or any citation templates. Sottolacqua (talk) 21:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Will try better, due to some of the logistics of citations referencing multiple articles it isn't a matter of simplicity, but you are correct.

Non-notable events[edit]

Please stop adding non-notable events (such as this and this) to the global date pages. The latter entry is so mind-bendingly dull that I cannot imagine it being of interest even except on a 'This Day in Pittsburgh Airport History' page. Entries should at least gesture in the direction of global or multi-national interest. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 12:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't waste resources replying to rude, insulting and borderline policy violating messages. I will consider responding to the merits of your concern, except that is now clouded by the fact that the apparent merits of your concern is that something "international" in name is somehow "mind-bendingly dull" and the fact that somehow you forget that all articles are available for cited and relevant edits, additive edits that you "cannot imagine it being of interest", aside from the fact that by your own name you somehow claim to be more than equal in ownership (?) of the on this day pages. If these are the things you wish for my response on, you may in time get that wish, would be interesting to see if one editors warped view on "international" and non-consensus pseudo verdicts of non-interest will be values wikipedia wishes to promote and grow. Marketdiamond (talk) 00:32, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

January 2012 Newsletter for WikiProject United States and supported projects[edit]

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Template:Rollins College[edit]

You left in a bunch of stuff relating to the University of Pittsburgh in Template:Rollins College. I'll clean it up if you don't, but I'd rather not have to look up whether the buildings exist for Rollins College. TimBentley (talk) 16:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Caught me during a time when I am de-prioritizing wiki temporarily, if memory serves (it was so long ago) most buildings at Rollins did not have articles, and the few that did (Knowles Chapel, Alfond, Mills, Olin) I already linked. If you happen to delete the wrong one I won't hold it against you, unfortunately the Rollins articles don't seem to really have that many interested in editing as yet but hopefully we can get some community involvement in it. Kind of heavy lifting for just one editor at the moment, I would have thought the natural evolution of Rollins-centric wiki editors would have corrected that by now. It's on my to-do list, I wouldn't take issue with you if you streamlined the box or even deleted sections of it for now. Marketdiamond (talk) 14:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Otto Frenzel[edit]

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The article Otto Frenzel has been proposed for deletion because, under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

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Fixed Marketdiamond (talk) 17:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Al Savill[edit]

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Template:Pittsburgh Light Rail[edit]

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Proposed deletion of Frank or Francis[edit]

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The article Frank or Francis has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Per the guidelines at WikiProject Films, films generally shouldn't have their own articles until multiples sources have confirmed the film has commenced principal photography. Since this film is still in pre-production as noted by its IMDB page, this page probably shouldn't exist yet per WP:CRYSTAL.

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Sorry, disregard this. I misread the Post-Gazette article. It's within the boundaries of WP:NFF. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 00:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Paul Skoutelas for deletion[edit]

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Pittsburgh Transportation[edit]

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Barnstar[edit]

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For your many continuing contributions to Pittsburgh-related articles! —Bill Price (nyb) 15:08, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Stephen Bland[edit]

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Proposed deletion of Stephen Bland[edit]

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Template:Pittsburgh Light Rail[edit]

Take a look at Template:Metromover and tell me what you think af applying the same coloured station labels to the PaTrolley RDT. Useddenim (talk) 00:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok confused me some here I think what your asking is for Template:Pittsburgh_Light_Rail if I think blocked backgrounds for single route stations (matching the route color) is a good idea. I vote YES! Not pink like Miami though, and what exactly is PaTrolley RDT . . . link? Thanks for the innovative feedback! MarketDiamond 10:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

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Testing Market 12:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Market St.||Diamond St. 12:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Market St. Diamond St.

Friendly warning[edit]

The material you deleted from the Steeler Nation page was the product of extensive talk page negotiations. It is fully sourced and your personal opinion about its correctness is irrelevant, per WP:V. Please use the talk page before ignoring and undermining consensus. Thanks. — Bdb484 (talk) 17:50, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your input and your contributions to Steelers Nation, however the cited and sourced material you repeatedly delete is also puzzling in that I am assuming you come to the article without a bias against the topic. Without a good faith assumption an editor might consider these vandalism of the worst kind. Also please respond to the new points I have raised with respect to the deletion of nakedly biased and poorly researched data, part of the consensus process in that no wikipedia article is ever "done", it seems you answer my concerns with the source with "past consensus" then answer my attempts to discuss consensus more re:source with the fact that the source is unassailable. MarketdiamondMarketDiamond 20:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Steeler Nation noticeboard[edit]

Hi Marketdiamond. I would respectfully suggest that when you have an editor who is supporting your cause (like me) that you be careful not to insult that editor in a discussion, particularly when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. In the Steeler Nation thread, you said, "For the sake of clarity and focus please register with a username." That statement is a classic example of IP discrimination. I'll ask you rhetorically: What does clarity and focus have to do with registering a username? The answer: absolutely nothing. As I said in the discussion, I suggest you educate yourself on WP:HUMAN and WP:URIP2. As it explains, among other great points, "You are an IP too. See here if you don't think so." You seem to be a nice person, but I would suggest never implying to an IP that they have less clarity and focus (or anything else) than registered users. It's an inappropriate and invalid stereotype. It's a huge Wikipedia myth. Not only are IPs equal to you, you may be surprised at how many of them know a lot more about editing than those with usernames. As long as they are contributing positively and productively to the project, they should always be welcomed with open arms. And don't forget, there are many editors with accounts that can be very disruptive. ;) --76.189.97.91 (talk) 06:23, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, intent was not to impact any editor (especially since--as you have read--my points with this DR is about hurtful phrases), intent was to welcome and (maybe misguided) avoid any potential volunteer decisions that could affect a fresh future volunteer. I appreciate your input, my first 2 better worded posts got bounced back (and lost all text) because of some unusually high page activity (3rd party edits and deletion back, back, back and back) at those moments, as well some kind of connection problem for several minutes after, in these confused and "wikierror" moments I may have referenced your talk contribution page (reflecting you as 2 total edits "new" contrary to your demonstrated knowledge) instead of your main contrib page. Thank you for the WP:HUMAN and WP:URIP2 links, as demonstrated with the other like (IP) participant in this DR I make efforts to value all editors hard work, and look forward to everyones future contributions. So as an original edit should have clarified from the start, a sincere Welcome! . . . to the discussion! Marketdiamond (talk) 07:45, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
As I suspected, you are a very nice person. Thank you for your comments. :) --76.189.97.91 (talk) 08:36, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
FWIW, a user name would improve clarity because it makes it much more clear who is talking. When you have multiple IP editors -- often with numbers similar enough to be confused -- it's hard to tell who's talking, whether they're responding positively or negatively to your comments, and whether they're making any new points. Being forced to memorize nine-digit strings rather than a simple name does, in fact, detract from focusing on the content discussion, even if some other conceptions about IP editors are inaccurate.
On this point, at least, Marketdiamond and I can find some common ground. — Bdb484 (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Appreciate the sentiment. Marketdiamond (talk) 21:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar for you too[edit]

Thank you, but it wouldn't be right to accept without me returning the favor for equally tireless work on your part.

Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For continual monitoring, expansion, and improvement of Wikipedia articles particularly for, but not exclusive to, topics related to Pittsburgh. CrazyPaco (talk) 00:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


:Thank you for the thoughtful recognition! Marketdiamond (talk) 00:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Note that my comment is actually in the arbitrator's voting section, but I can't link to that section since we keep track of the vote counts in the header. Hersfold non-admin(t/a/c) 19:17, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I see you saw and left a nice comment for me there, wasn't sure about the word count but in hindsight you were correct, better to be clear then shorthand and dense. Marketdiamond (talk) 21:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Great Lakes underwater boundaries[edit]

You may want to read the "current concerns" and "international disputes" section of the Caspian Sea article, since they're quite relevant to what you asked about the Great Lakes. Nyttend (talk) 22:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Case request declined[edit]

As you may have noticed, it is now impossible per the Arbitration Committee's procedures for the case to be accepted. I am therefore going to close the request. I encourage you to make full use of the dispute resolution procedures though, as you are already doing. WP:DRN, RFCs, and Mediation are useful for the content part, while WP:ANI is sometimes useful for administrators if you are able to briefly identify where you feel the other editors are editing tendentiously. Attempting to find an administrator who might be able to informally arbitrate the dispute between the two of you could be helpful (try with some of the ones who commented on that arbitration request). Best, NW (Talk) 16:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Your request for undeletion[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that a response has been made at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion regarding a submission you made. The thread is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/Stephen_Bland. JohnCD (talk) 16:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Stephen Bland[edit]

You requested this article be restored. Please expand it and assert notability with multiple reliable sources if you want to avoid it being deleted again. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Appreciation. Marketdiamond (talk) 19:56, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

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Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle[edit]

Decemmber 8 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited
Seattle Public Library
  • Date Saturday, December 8, 2012
  • Time 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.
  • Location Seattle Public Library Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library, 1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104
  • Event An editathon on Seattle-related Wikipedia articles with Wikipedia tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand.
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talkback - resource exchange[edit]

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thanks for the barnstar[edit]

Thank you for the Barnstar. I'm happy to help with resource requests - keep 'em coming. Incidentally, I noticed that you are a Rollins College alum. Someone keeps creating an article about their basketball head coach Tom Klusman but they just copy and paste the text from the college website so it keeps getting deleted. If you are interested in creating a real article on him I think it would be appreciated. GabrielF (talk) 14:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Your very welcome, as strange as this may sound not really a basketball fan but I'll see if I can wikifi the data on the citation to get at least a good article stub going. Thanks again! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 23:16, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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Pitt Portal OTD[edit]

Marketdiamond,

Thanks for your additions to the Pitt portal. I wanted to discuss what warrants inclusion on the On This Day portion. My vision with Pitt's OTD was not like the Pittsburgh Portal project's OTD. I envisioned highlighting just one or two of the most prominent occurrences in Pitt's history for any particular day, so that the most notable ones would stand out. In other words, it is a "most prominent event on this day in history" not simply a listing of every occurrence with a date. I wanted to avoid events like the the Langley Hall explosion, or MLK visit, or national championship being lost in a list of more routine occurrences or sports events (don't get me wrong, I'm a huge sports fan). Now, I'm not suggesting not adding those things, just that it would be beneficial to a reader to be selective about events on one particular date, in consideration of the context of other events throughout the univeristy's 225 history on that same date. For instance, I don't think it is beneficial to put every win over a ranked team or upset for football or basketball in the list, not that that is what you have been doing, but I don't want to start that precedent where it becomes predominantly a OTD in Pitt sports (because those dates are the most easy to find and could flood the OTD) thus resulting in historically significant university events getting buried in a sports tsunami. For example, I really don't think this year's win over Syracuse warrants an entry (and it seems a good bit of recentism), particularly in light of the fact there are 9 wins against top 5 teams, just at the Pete, in the last decade alone and they likely don't all warrant an entry either. Essentially, I am primarily concerned with precedent where editors will litter the OTD (especially in the winter and fall and particularly on dates containing notable historic events) with a haphazard listing of wins from 100 years of Pitt football and basketball. Does that philosophy behind additions to the OTD makes sense to you? CrazyPaco (talk) 19:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

CrazyPaco, thanks for noticing my hard work! I can see your point with academic institutions, and I too share that in ways. For all my contributions I have kind of been going on commonsense pillar above policy thing without knowing any specific OTD policies, so apologizes if I gave any appearance of "flooding" and no I am in no way planning to replicate the dozens of items a day found on the city OTD, no human has time for more than one of those 366 article projects lol. The Pitt Portal wasn't fishing expeditions for filler (not that your accusing that, but honestly I hate blank spots on the metro OTD--different aims with metro thou), just migrating some of the already wikified Pitt items (notable enough to match all other metro news) on the city's OTD over every few months as dates approach. I appreciate you noticing so it's great that an editor with your expertise can add what you wish to the Pitt OTD from items at the Pittsburgh Portal. Even if that is zero, I really don't mind, my pathos is more with the city/metro than specifically with Pitt. BTW great job on both portals and projects! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 20:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
There's no policy here, I'm just trying to preemptively explain my rationale in how I started to build it because I've been selective in what I added so far (leaving things out) and I don't want of it to get too out of whack or lopsided. One can go one or two directions with these things: put everything you can find in there or be selective, but because sports dates are so much more abundant and easier to find for Pitt (as opposed to an entire city with multiple daily newspapers), I wanted to be selective so that it was more balanced to all readers just not sports fans. So, I originally approached it from the point of view of the reader having a quote-of-the-day desk calendar, you probably don't want too many quotes on that one page. That's all, it's not policy, just how I've tried to build the Pitt OTD by trying to be selective and as concise as possible. And really, I had no problem with your additions. You used good sources to place some of the more notable events in the basketball program (and some were pretty humorous actually). I am just trying to be preemptive in discussing selectivity so every date in the fall, for instance, does not have Pitt beats PSU or Pitt beats WVU or Pitt beats ND over 100 years of history...it sort of makes, for instance, the 13-9 upset of WVU, which was huge, somewhat meaningless. But for empty dates, well, the standard is obviously lower for including events on them, than for instance, the date on which the university was founded. (BTW, the only one I really thought was way out of place was the Beth O one, so I deleted that one, because that really has nothing to do with the university whatsoever). As far as filling empty dates, the biggest problem is confirming exact dates for events, and the downswing in events in the summer months makes that the difficult for those months. The good news is that Pitt's digital archive has put a lot more material on-line (alumni publications) than when I started this and I understand they may be putting up Pitt News scans in the future. Again, thanks for your contributions, and this was just a preemptive explanation of what I had been trying to do, not really a criticism. CrazyPaco (talk) 00:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Hey, btw, you've done more than enough on Pitt and Pitt-related projects to add your name to Wikipedia:WikiProject University of Pittsburgh/Members, whether it is your primary interest or not. There is so much overlap anyway. Your contributions and discussions are valued. CrazyPaco (talk) 03:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
CrazyPaco, thanks for the invite and positive feedback! Been a busy few days for me here but the more you tell about your vision the more I'm liking it, very good for an academic institution, and well thought out. Appreciate your thoughts early in the process CrazyPaco, and your right on getting the dates right (Historical Pittsburgh Chronology has tons off by a date or two), and Newspaper archives are always tricky with the "yesterdays" and "last [day of the week]" descriptions. I have thought that leaving your thoughts above on academic OTDs might be good to leave on the talk pages for posterity. Doesn't have to be policy but more a guide and method to the madness so that months or years from now at the very least other wikipedians will know there was a system and reason things were done a certain way, perhaps even they will stay true to the basics of that vision. Editors such as yourself (the majority) I never consider to be critical, thats the magic of Wikipedia, very creative, very knowledgeable but at times colliding visions that can result in even better articles. However your right, with the passing of time a few zealots or newbies could undo good faith edits, something I have thought of getting around to on the city OTD. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 11:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Could you do me a favor and keep an eye on the removal of Pitt's succession boxes (grouped with the Steelers and other teams) on Pittsburgh's football stadium venues (Expo Park, Rec Park, TRS, Forbes, Pitt Stadium). There is one editor that thinks he is running the college football Wikiproject and that this give him ownership over 100s of articles without regard to the editors or other projects that work on those venues' articles. The effect is it makes an for an incomplete list of venue tenants in the succession box grouping for these articles. I already reversed him and don't want to get into an edit war. Talk page comments would be useful as well if you have comments. CrazyPaco (talk) 06:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
CrazyPaco, I looked over those page histories and that editor, first thought is I can't believe that editor is attempting this quixotic irrationality again of deleting factual data from an encyclopedia. I will be leaving comments on a few talk pages and hopefully avoid any edit warring. Second I do see that the editor on Three Rivers Stadium and Forbes Field (others?) replaced the Succession Box with a Pitt NavBar (replacing "facts" is not what I like to see on Wikipedia) but in your revert the Pitt NavBar has disappeared. Again, not aware of all the discussed opinions on the matter but my first strong instinct would be to have both NavBars and Succession Boxes. This also allows for a very simple, understandable and sustainable policy of what should and shouldn't be included going forward. Please share your thoughts on the Navbars for these pages (possibly just the "Pitt Football" navbar), and I will definitely leave my thoughts on the encyclopedic nature of factual inclusions on all articles especially sports stadiums and will monitor these pages with you for the near future. Thanks for making me aware of this situation. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 16:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
There is an ongoing year+ long dispute between me and this editor regarding the standardization of navbox across a very broad college football wikiproject. You can view the current discussion at the talk page there and the original rfc in its archives. Essentially, at some point in the past, he decided to rigidly standardize all college football navboxes for every single college program (there are 100s) and he systematically went about converting multiple navbox topics (like seasons and facilities) into one consolidated and rigidly regulated (by himself) navbox per team. IMO, for some programs, it was an improvement, for others, it overemphasized trivial information and deleted links to articles about important aspects of the individual program. It caused the vast majority of Navboxes to be filled with a meaningless list of consecutive years, many of which are redlinked, a practice discouraged in the WP:NAV essay. What he did would be like if an editor at the American Football Wikiproject standarded all NFL teams with no customization of categories; or if the US Wikiproject rigidly standardizing navboxes for all cities or states. Such a thing is unprecedented across Wikipedia, and it is, in effect, asserting ownership over 100s of navboxes with callous disregard for other wikiprojects and editors that may be involved in the topic's articles. I believe it is actually a dangerous precedent for Wikipedia (and for the Pittsburgh city navbox, or Steelers navbox, etc). Therefore, you may want evaluate this for yourself and comment at the Pitt football Navbox talk page and/or at the CFB Wikiproject. The problem is, there just aren't that many editors involved in the discussion at the CFB Wikiproject and we've never taken it to a successfully wider RFC.
In fact, regarding the Pitt football navbox, right now there is the current Pitt football navbox, the original one (that was much more concise), and an alternative one by another editor at Template talk:Pittsburgh Panthers football navbox/sandbox. Comments on the Pitt navbox talk page about these issues and to generate a consensus for the style of the navbox would be helpful.
Back to the venues. I have no problem including the Pitt football navbox on these articles as well. I know jweiss is trying to remove duplication of navbox links and succession box links (he thinks his standardization of the CFB navboxes trumps other concerns about the articles themselves, like it effectively ruining the list of tenants in the succession boxes or having the bizzare side effect of a Pitt basketball succession box being located on Pitt Stadium, but not Pitt football). As far as Pitt football's nav box, personally, I don't think Rec Park or TRS is probably necessary as a link in the nav box because it isn't a major part of Pitt history, but I also have no problem if people want to put a complete list of Pitt football venues into the navbox. However, I would suggest that if they are included that Rec Park should not be at the very top of the navbox so that is is the first linked article that a reader sees since Rec Park is really a footnote in the overall topic of Pitt football. What I'd like to do is get a consensus of editors that know about Pitt and Pittsburgh to come up with a reasoned navbox, with logic behind what is excluded, included and how it is presented; not forfeit that to Jweiss' one-size-fits-all format. CrazyPaco (talk) 09:16, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

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Service award[edit]

This editor is a Veteran Editor IV and is entitled to display this Gold Editor Star.

In recognition of your 22,000 edits, I present you with this service award. Yworo (talk) 19:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

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WP Pittsburgh in the Signpost[edit]

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Pittsburgh for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 06:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Marketdiamond, you may want to take a look at my answers and comment on them and add your own. I don't necessarily feel comfortable speaking for the Project on my own. CrazyPaco (talk) 06:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the reminder CrazyPaco, doing presently, been away for awhile. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 06:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for you copy edits and formatting help. --Guerillero | My Talk 05:46, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad to help, and thank you for that excellent article, very well researched, imaged and detailed! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 05:51, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

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James H Hopkins and interstate commerce[edit]

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Category:Rollins College Wikipedians[edit]

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Translation from German to English[edit]

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Shill text - correction[edit]

Greetings, Marketdiamond! While enjoying a peruse of your User page, I came across a line that jarred me a bit. As a professional editor and infosearcher (among other things, when not editing Wikipedia), I did a bit of checking and found the more familiar version of the Orson Welles quote here: "...sell no wine before its time" (emphasis mine). Were it not for the attribution to O.W., I'd have thought you were hinting that "Its/It's time" = the bartender's announcement of "last round"...? Being almost but not quite bold enough to make the correction directly, I chose to alert you here. See you around! -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Deborahjay, will correct and hey thanks for viewing my manifesto lol.

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EDMC Legal issues section[edit]

Hi there, Market. If you haven't checked the EDMC Talk page in a few days there was a comment from Nomo about including Bittel. I've responded to this but thought that you might like to weigh in as well. Also, if you were interested in making any changes to my draft to shorten the section, please go right ahead. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:20, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello! Though I am mindful of not rushing anything, as you know, I did want to follow up on the EDMC discussion before the weekend. Did you want me to try reaching out to other wikiprojects to find other editors to review the draft, or do you feel comfortable moving my draft into the article at this point? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:38, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I went ahead and added a compacted version of your draft since there was no further discussion despite my personal invitations to concerned editors and the invitations for further references/discussion on the actual article. If there is something that the current draft isn't correct on let me know. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 03:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Latest on EDMC[edit]

Howdy, Market. Earlier this week I posted up a proposed revision to Legal issues at Talk:EDMC, and then I posted a note with two wikiprojects (Universities, Politics) to find some additional eyeballs. No responses yet. Very much looking forward to your feedback when you find the time. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 17:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Replied on users talk page. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 21:43, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
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EDMC Political activities section[edit]

Hi Market, I saw you updated the Political activities section of the EDMC article. Thanks for doing that. I'm fine with keeping the information about Anthony J. Guida Jr., but I've left you a note on the Talk page about the current sources in that sentence. Two of them currently do not support the information. I left you a more detailed note on the Talk page about how to correct this. I hope you can check it out. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Back to you on Political activities—just a couple of details about Guida's career to correct, and a few changes for grammar. Thanks! WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comment[edit]

Hi, please stop by and see what you think of the most recent changes I've made to the list of nicknames for Pittsburgh. As you created the article I wanted to hear your input. Thanks. SteelMarinerTalk 17:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi SteelMariner, I left a comment for you on that articles talk page, great work! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 17:59, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Allegheny County Medical Examiner for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Allegheny County Medical Examiner is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Proposed deletion of Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark[edit]

Hello, Marketdiamond. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:

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You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Stifle (talk) 15:42, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

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Nomination of Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Post at Help Desk[edit]

Please do not use the Help Desk to publicize articles that are not directly relevant to the question that was being asked. The article to which you linked is about gender imbalance in the Western world, and the poster is in [[India]. It was a good faith post, but was not relevant at the Help Desk. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Point taken, perhaps I'm too use to the reference desks. I'll keep replies on the HD on point. That said I was aware of the India thing, and its moot at this point about the merits of the contribution but I do appreciate your good faith and collegiality on it. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 10:50, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Upload picture[edit]

Hi Market Diamond,

You have recently helped me set up the infobox section on the Angels Den article- thank you very much for that I greatly appreciate it! I have been trying to upload a picture on wikipedia but for some reason the result appears in black- some sort of negative view of it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Angels_Den_Main_Logo.jpg) Thank you, Rhâmusker — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhamusker (talkcontribs) 12:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Rhamusker, I think I fixed this for you, check the article, also if you click the "edit source" it will allow you to fill in the infobox with a lot more information on the right side of the "=". Glad to help, I always appreciate some of the "heart" logo at the top center-right of the page if you are so inclined to present it! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 13:05, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


Thank you, the picture that you have put remains black, when the original is yellow I think. I do not understand what you mean by " heart logo" I have received 3 banners saying that there are issues with the URL and notability. Do you know what they mean? Concerning the logo, I have recently approached the company (emailed them) and asked them if they were okay with me using their logo. They said they were quite happy to have a wiki page, so they gave me their approval. This is my very first wiki article, I have edited before, but heck! creating an article is something else! I have very sorry to keep on asking questions, I must sound like a pain :s. Rhamusker (talk) 14:12, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Those are normal for new articles, you should use the Help:Citation_tools for the references and also go to London articles or other business articles and wikilink the article to those. As far as the coloring that is something that you may want to take up at the Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) for color changes or errors. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 15:02, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013[edit]

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Pittsburgh Panthers women's basketball[edit]

I see that you started the Pittsburgh Panthers women's basketball article with some interesting information about the pre-1974 years. Do you have a source for the information. It would be nice to include if it can be sourced, but it should be removed if it cannot be sourced.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow that is a great memory of yesteryear, I may not be the best editor to assess this, however I did alert one who is passionate about topics such as this and will see if I can assist in anyway. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 19:34, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
That was information that I added many years ago. I believe all of the pre-1970 information came from Pitt's student yearbooks that are available on-line at documentingpitt/yearbooks.html. At that time I was newer to Wikipedia and was not as diligent at adding citations to all information, but I can assure you that all records came from sourced information available on-line at resources such as the link above. Part of one season's record, if I remember correctly, may have come from a Temple women's media guide, but the rest the of the information most likely came from the digitized student yearbooks. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
BTW, the AIAW shouldn't be listed as a conference on these tables. The AIAW was the governing body for women's sports prior to the NCAA adding women's sports in the early 80s. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:59, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Good point, CrazyPaco regarding the AIAW. I picked that information up from another source, and should have picked up on it. I concentrated on making sure the post-season AIAW conference results were correct (because they can be confusing) and totally missed that the source use AIAW as a conference name.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 12:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Could I trouble you again to look at EDMC?[edit]

Hi again Market, I hope you've been well. I know that you said that you were comfortable leaving the rest of the EDMC article as is, so I've been looking elsewhere for editors to help with the most recent section I prepared. However, I am having trouble completing this request and I'm hoping you wouldn't mind helping me out.

Back in July I proposed a new draft for the Programs section. This draft was later approved (but not moved) by User:Srich32977 and you can see his comment on the Talk page here. Since his approval on the 25th I've reached out to him on his Talk page about adding the section, as you know I want to avoid all direct edits here, but he hasn't been back to make the change. I also tried posting this request on the Paid editor help project page to no avail.

So, I figured I would see if you're game. Mind taking a quick look and moving the section live if it also looks OK to you? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I moved this to the Talk Page there. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 15:42, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Hey, as I know you've seen, I just now saw that S. Rich returned and made the edit a few hours ago. I certainly wasn't expecting that, or I wouldn't have followed up with you. Anyway, I'll be preparing a revised introduction based on the existing article; again, I'll try to find another editor to help with that. Meantime, I really appreciate your willingness to help update this article, so thanks very much. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 16:20, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Oops, I take that back. I forgot that I wanted to propose a Corporate affairs section first (it's been sitting awhile) but anyway, I'll look for other assistance first. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:19, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Hey I see that I was beaten to the edit, well alls well. Other assistance is always good but I'll monitor things as well. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 20:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

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Your resource request[edit]

Have you seen this and this related item? LeadSongDog come howl! 19:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Category:Unmarried elected leaders[edit]

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Article Feedback Tool update[edit]

Hey Marketdiamond. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article—we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended—but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

Again, we're very sorry about this issue; hopefully it'll be smooth sailing after this :). If you have any questions, just drop them at the talkpage. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) 21:58, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Dudey Moore[edit]

The basketball media guides from LaSalle ([5], starting on pg 77) and Duquesne ([6], second page) both refer to him as "Dudey". That alone is sufficient for me. But books about Pittsburgh sports also refer to him that way: [7], [8], [9]. And Pittsburgh newspapers referred to him as such: [10], [11], [12], [13], etc. Lots of sports personalities have had silly nicknames. (My favorite is Chubby Cox, from the other side of Pennsylvania.) Zagalejo^^^ 12:22, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Pittsburg, Nebraska[edit]

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The article Pittsburg, Nebraska has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Even the USGS seems to be having trouble confirming that this place exists. I certainly can't.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sven Manguard Wha? 04:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for the kind words and the Barnstar. They made my day. John M Baker (talk) 19:30, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: "from the hip"[edit]

Well, I Googled "from the hip" but am none the wiser (reference your comments on Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Butchers_of_Sobibor). Did I make a faux pas? Pray tell. Alansplodge (talk) 17:10, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

You're all good, if you are puzzled by the reference see here about the old west. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 08:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
My use concurs with meaning two on your link; the first meaning isn't used in the UK as far as I know. I seem to have misread your original comments, but thanks for taking the trouble to clarify. Alansplodge (talk) 00:42, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

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Reference desk and Miss Bono[edit]

I noticed that you answered a question of Miss Bono's and gave her an off Wikipedia link. However, most of her Wikipedia editing is done at work where they have blocked everything but Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 August 6#Restaurant and there are several others. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 21:33, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Understood, thanks for the heads up, tho for archival and other readers including the links are still necessary I'll quote from them more for her. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 21:59, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of RIDC[edit]

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A tag has been placed on RIDC, requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which articles can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may be soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:

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RIDC has been userfied[edit]

The article has been restored and moved (without redirect) to User:Marketdiamond/RIDC. Remember that it doesn't matter how well the article is written, and how neutral the tone is (see WP:WTA), if the organisation is not notable, it will not survive any deletion discussion. See WP:CORP for guidance on the notability requirements for organisations. Stephen! Coming... 12:20, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Appreciate your assistance, tho I completely disagree I will read over what you linked to and incorporate it. Thank you. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 12:23, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
you asked my opinion--I have the following suggestions: The promotionalism would be decreased by (1) removing the marketing jargon throughout,(2) removing adjectives of praise (3) removing section 2 entirely, since it actually says nothing that isn't in the lede and is composed entirely of such jargon, (4) removing or rewriting section 4, since it also is almost entirely duplicative jargon. With respect to importance, rechecking the references, it is important enough to avoid speedy on that count, but actual notability is still uncertain. (1)the PPG feature is an editorial, not a feature, and doesn't count for much. (2) It would very much help to have at least one ref from outside Pittsburgh.

In addition, move the external links to references, which is what they actually are, and giving the full print citation for newspaper articles, including the date of publication, not just the online link DGG ( talk ) 22:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Appreciation for the discussion, however this discussion belongs on the live wikiarticles talk page, do I see justification for tagging, even a "multiple issues tag" or stretching it possibly even a "this article has been nominated for deletion" solicitation for discussion, sure. So I look forward to answering your points in detail on the live articles talk page, as you may have noticed I cleared my cache of the 'arrested development' RS links I was adding to the article circa 6AM by adding them to a now different userfied article then the one nominated at the notice board. I'm all for constructive criticism and even tagging if you have that opinion on a live article. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 23:56, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Congratulations on the successful DR. Ping me when you think you're ready to put the article in the namespace.--GrapedApe (talk) 13:14, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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Barnstar[edit]

Thank you very much for the BArnstar :) I really appreciate it. Miss Bono [hello, hello!] 12:51, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar[edit]

Thank you very much for the barnstar and your kind comments. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:21, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks.[edit]

Thanks for the star. I certainly didn't do anything special to warrant it.

BTW, please keep an eye out for removal of tenant succession boxes on Pittsburgh sports venue articles. CrazyPaco (talk) 11:45, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Reference templates?[edit]

What's up with {{Pittsburgh Film}}, {{Pittsburgh etymology}}, {{Pittsburgh Names}}, {{Pittsburgh history}}? I've never seen that on any other articles.--GrapedApe (talk) 00:15, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

A couple of things, first they were initially intended for use across multiple wikipedia articles (some of which I'd like to create in the near future) as a way to ensure that (to me especially) references weren't 'lost' that could be useful on several articles. Second, as those references were added to the main article's lead a few spots became repetitive with citation-text word-citation-text word-citation-text word etc. and also 3-4-5 citations in a row. If an editor wishes to move a few of the less necessary citations lower on the article or add them to the other articles they were intended for I'd be fine with that.
As far as seeing it elsewhere, I did look back and remember at least a few big cities used them at the time, also I remember a particular request for assistance at the New York City either talk page or project talk page for this but I can't find the discussion this second. At the time I went off of "It is generally a good idea to keep the main reference (long version) in the body and only use the short "name" version ([1]) in the lead. This makes the lead much easier to edit. This also demonstrates the primacy of content in the body, and that the lead is only based on content and references found in the body of the article." at Wikipedia:How_to_create_and_manage_a_good_lead_section#References_in_the_lead.3F. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 03:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
    • For leads, I'm of the opinion that all content in the lead should appear, with citations, in the body. I think I'll raise the issue at the talk page for further discussion.--GrapedApe (talk) 04:12, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 5[edit]

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Nomination of Robert Coll for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Robert Coll is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Help with recent changes to EDMC[edit]

Hi there, Market. Hope you're off to a good new year so far. I'm wondering if you'd be able to take a look at some recent edits to the EDMC article, where an IP editor recently added in a lot of detail about the company's legal issues into the lead section.

As I see it, most of the material, which is copied directly from the sources used, is already covered in the Legal issues section of the article, with the exception of one recent event from December. I've explained my thoughts in more detail on the EDMC Talk page.

Since you helped with the Legal issues section that I proposed last year, I thought you'd be a good person to review this and see what should be kept (if anything) from the information that's been added. Do you think you might have time to take a look? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 06:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

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A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

This wiki kitten wants to say thank you for expanding the Economy of Pittsburgh page. Nice job!

Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 19:05, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Much appreciation, I left a longer note on your talk page ;-). Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 00:00, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

More changes to EDMC[edit]

Hi, Market. It looks like the same IP editor that has been making changes to the EDMC article for the last few weeks has gone on a new spate of edits to the ledes of EDMC, Argosy University and the Art Institutes articles. I've detailed my suggestions for the edits on each of the individual article talk pages. I'm hoping you might be able to review the edits and give your feedback if you have time. I'm also wondering what your thoughts are about potentially requesting semi-protection on the EDMC article. Do you think it would be helpful or should we just continue to revert or move edits as they occur? It does seem this IP editor will continue to make edits and has an ax to grind against EDMC. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Hey, I will take a look at the articles. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 02:28, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi again, Market! I wasn't sure if you'd seen my last reply on the EDMC Talk page, so just wanted to leave you a quick note here to ask if you'd mind making the change you suggested for the EDMC page? Also, The Art Institutes issue still remains, if you're able to look at that too. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Just to give you an update: There have been more edits to the introduction of the EDMC article as well as the introduction of The Art Institutes article, focusing on recruiting practices. I've left notes explaining the edits and my suggestions for how to approach these on the articles' Talk pages.
If you have time, there's also a new Controversy section on the Brown Mackie College article that I'd like your thoughts on. My suggestion is to incorporate the information elsewhere in the article. Finally, I've been discussing some changes to the Legal issues section on the Argosy University article with Nomoskedasticity. Would you mind taking a look as well? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Chartis[edit]

Hi, Thank you for helping to develop content in Chartis page. I believe this page should be merged to the AIG. Would you support my motion to merge the two pages? Much appreciated. ThanksHiland109 (talk) 21:15, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd be a bit supportive of it, seems my limited knowledge of Chartis is that it did not exist for long and was an abortive attempt to spin off some divisions which ultimately was reversed. I was thinking about making a new article about the Union Fire Insurance company which is itself a division of AIG now, but has a much longer and deeper history. Chartis doesn't seem to have a third of that history so I think it may be a good candidate for merging. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 04:09, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

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fixed. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 12:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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images[edit]

Market,

You have my permission to use any of my images however you wish, attribution or not.

I've had to take a break from Wiki...too busy with other things, but I'll eventually get back around. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks CP, you and your contributions are missed but I can understand that other duties call. Wish you the very best. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 23:43, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Volkswagen Westmoreland Assembly Plant[edit]

You moved the article from Volkswagen Westmoreland Assembly Plant to RDIC Westmoreland -- without discussing it first under requested page moves, or on the article talk page -- per Wikipedia guidelines. Please note that the article introduction already concluded with a complete history of the site after VWoA (which was not updated) and a subsection about the subsequent history of the facility (which was not updated).

I will move the article back to its previous title for these reasons: the article isn't about RDIC, or the current facility, nor is it about what happened to the plant after VWOA (though it has a section of the article about that). The article is specifically about the facility's role as a VW assembly plant. This can easily be resolved by updating (already done) in the introduction the history of the plant after VW.

Should this become a controversial move, there are Wikipedia protocols for dealing with the move. 842U (talk) 15:49, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I replied to your concerns on your talk page. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 21:38, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

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Pittsburgh Geological Society and Pittsburgh Association of Petroleum Geologists[edit]

Normally I am so sure that local societies of this sort are non-notable that I would have listed them as a7; but I am of course aware both of the importance of the Pittsburgh area to the petroleum industry, and even more of your general excellent work on the area & your good judgement about what to include and not include.. Perhaps you could expand these to show some evidence of notability ? DGG ( talk ) 03:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up DGG, and the compliments. I will see what I can add in the next few days/weeks. To me they are already passing notability, however I do realize the world does not revolve around the 412 lol. I will also add these to the Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania wikiprojects to see if we can get some others to add references and text. Thanks again. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 04:34, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Category:Pittsburgh sports stars injured in auto accidents[edit]

Category:Pittsburgh sports stars injured in auto accidents, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Secret account 01:05, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Requesting Guidance[edit]

Hello. I'm new to the wiki community and would like to start working on editing the property insurance page with the help and collaboration of more experienced contributors. There is a recommendation that the Chartis article be merged with AIG's page. I think the Property Insurance page could be strengthened with parts of AIG's page since it shows how current events and emerging trends effect it's regulation by the government. Hurricane Sandy and updated payouts of the WTC are not on the Property Insurance page either - which to me seem to be relevant. Do you think adding more information would be beneficial to the Property Insurance page? If so would you be interested in collaborating what facts should be included? Any response would be kindly appreciated. Thank you.Lgkkitkat (talk) 17:59, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Lgkkitkat, first welcome to Wikipedia! I am a bit occupied at present and have not real passion for the insurance articles however I will be more available next week and will be glad to assist you in any way I can. Happy editing, and remember the talk pages and wikiproject talk pages (to enlist some community help) is always useful! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 07:32, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello again. I want to know if you think the Chartis article should be merged with AIG. I have a community member who says it is the right thing to do. I would feel more confident with more contributors opinion - especially yours since you are familiar with the Chartis page.Lgkkitkat (talk) 03:24, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for the update, I don't see any further discussion on either the AIG or Chartis talk pages, can you link to the updated discussion? Thanks. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 01:50, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok. I will try to get the info to you tomorrow. Thanks :) Lgkkitkat (talk) 02:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi...here the discussion info:


AIG - Chartis[edit source] In terms of why it is appropriate to merge Chartis with the AIG Wikipedia article we can cite the following talk page posts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chartis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:American_International_Group#Merger_Proposal_Chartis Given that Chartis was a business unit of AIG, the information on its history and divestiture may be better summarized into the AIG Wikipedia article. When Wikipedia readers click the URL on Chartis.com the Chartis Wikipedia article, it redirects to AIG.com, possibly confusing readers. In terms of how I would conduct clean up, I am fairly new to Wikipedia and haven't done much focus on a specific topic - except researching. So please forgive any errors in my proposal to merge the articles.

Summarization: Review the Chartis Wikipedia article and assess the content that has verifiable citations. Then reformat a narrative of the history as well as what led to the divestiture of the business unit. Peer review: Might need your help/advice on this part. Post the rewrite onto my sandbox for review and final editorial help. I don't really know what happens after the peer review. So I defer to your experience and guidance. I appreciate your support on this idea. What other ideas and/or guidance do you have at this point? Please me know on my talk page and thank you again for your rapid response. Have a great day. Lgkkitkat (talk) 18:45, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello Lgkkitkat! I perused the Chartis article, the sources, and the talk page. I understand now, and agree that Chartis MUST, in good conscience, be merged into the AIG article. That's very responsible of you, or whomever originally initiated merging. Chartis was very clearly broken off into an SPV in order to distance those (very central) lines of business from the AIG bail-out ignominy. The article sources that. Once the negative publicity blew over, Benmosche didn't feel the need to continue with Chartis e.g. an IPO, and quietly reabsorbed Chartis lines of business back into AIG, as before. It is an important part of AIG corporate history, and merits at least a section in the main AIG article. As for process, please do this, Copy the relevant parts of the AIG article to your sandbox. Draft your merged version there. Let me know if you need help. I'll help/ review what you've done, in your sandbox, and when you are ready, you can post to the already extant merge proposal page, linking or just copying the text of the Chartis into AIG section to the merge discussion page. This should elicit some discussion, and if not, we can round up some editors. We can go from there! --FeralOink (talk) 07:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC) Ok - thanks so much for you advice. As for sandboxes...the last time I tried to use it I made a big mess :(



I'll work on it but I for sure will need your help. I have no problems with edits like citations, grammar, punctuation and spelling. Beyond that I need a lot of guidance. Be in touch soon.Lgkkitkat (talk) 18:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


How do we round up editors to back up this idea to merge the pages? I am waiting to hear back from one of the contributors that developed the Chartis page. I think his input could be helpful.Lgkkitkat (talk) 03:51, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Lgkkitkat (talk) 16:57, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok I think I see whats going on here, 1st (& you may have already come to this conclusion yourself) I would try to get editors to leave posts like this on the talk page for AIG (since the notices link to the AIG talk page), some editor talk page notes will be necessary but you want to use those to direct comments to the talk page.
I am pretty indifferent to your proposal, but if I had to pick a side it would be to merge Chartis into AIG (I think some of AIGs "purchases" throughout the years deserve their own wikipedia article whenever editors get around to creating them) I forget if you have tried to suggest this at the Wikiproject talk pages or not, but I would. You seem to be a new editor but having put the notices on the Chartis article for awhile now I would just go ahead and be WP:BOLD in doing what you see fit. Just be friendly if there are some editors who challenge it, but no better way to start a discussion on here than to just go ahead and do it after the warning for weeks. :-) Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 23:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok...so far you are the only Wikipedian kind enough to reply to my questions. I found this message on my talk page and don't understand who it is from or if i have done something wrong...can you tell me please?

And I might add, in re writing on synthetic biology[edit source] ...that Wikipedia wants, per its policies, secondary sources (reviews, book chapters, etc.) used for most scientific sourcing of factual content. If you rely on primary research, almost inevitably you are violating WP:OR because you are deciding what is important, and/or how to interpret it (hence violating WP:PSTS—rather than allowing the published opinion-shapers decide. (We are opinion-reporters, and not opinion-shapers here.) I liken this to the difference in biographical work, to reporting from the best books and articles of historians, rather than from newspaper reports (a primary source in that area). Making our writing secondary source-based will give it the context needed for it to be encyclopedic, and to remain in place for long periods. (Besides which, anyone can revert primary source-based work, with less justification than secondary, so you will not be wasting your time.) Hence, while synthetic biology is exploding, restricting yourself to books, solid reviews in journals, and the like will best inform you, and make the writing more proscribed. Finally, note, news reports are only good to cite that a scientific report is newsworthy (and not as a source of the scientific facts), and press releases are never acceptable scientific sources. Otherwise, I agree with the foregoing comment that batter made, to steer clear od commercial sources (and websites/bare URL sources in general). Best wishes, and loking forward to what you come up with. Cheers. Le Prof

I understand the advice, but have I done something wrong in terms of citation 19 in on the synthetic biology page?Lgkkitkat (talk) 21:03, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

As for your being bold advice...I'm not sure if it's appropriate at this time. I can try to rough draft where Chartis could be metioned in AIG but I don't know how to edit something like this...Lgkkitkat (talk) 21:39, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

From what I can make out from Le Prof's comments (and I did not check the edit history on the article yet) his view (and probably the consensus view) is that for scientific articles more than just a newspaper article or the like is necessary for something to be reliably sourced. I don't edit those types of articles much but what he is stating I have seen the few times I have read them.
I don't see any harm in his suggestions of better sources, and no I wouldn't say you did anything "wrong", unless an editor is deliberately going around vandalizing articles on here most everything we do is what we feel is best for the encyclopedia, so I wouldn't take it as anything more then some advice on what the consensus is for those articles, also I don't think Le Prof was intended an accusation just a friendly reminder and some education on current consensus. If you have concerns about his suggestion being incorrect in your view I would edit the article the way you think it should be and put a friendly note on the edit summary "see article talk page" and then hash any of his concerns out with him on that article talk page (this allows a few other editors to see it and possibly get involved). To me, I'd just learn from Le Prof leaving the article alone and contact him/her on his talk page for any questions you might have, but you would know best what path to take on that subject (the content/citation & whether it belongs is over my head).
As far as your Chartis question, I trust you know about your sandbox, if not just go to your userpage and add a "/Chartis" or something like it to the end of the URL and click that you want to create that page and then you can copy the Chartis article into it and make any of the edits you seek to make to the actual live article. Editors and Admins have a "hands off" approach to personal sandbox pages like that in most cases. I applaud your seeking consensus and group affirmation on some of your ideas, and that is a mindset that you should always have as #1 on wikipedia but in reality for the majority of your article changes you will move quickly from that "consensus" step into WP:BOLD after the notices of the top of the article has been there for a week or so just as you did. In reality the majority of "consensus" and "discussion" is when a good faith edit is challenged, then the wikiproject notices and consensus building, 3rd opinion and other measures are taken over the course of sometimes weeks. In my experience, for a major article like Chartis a top-of-article notice like you put on it (or a top-of-section notice where appropriate) for more than a week that goes without comment is a big green light that editing may commence. It doesn't mean it won't be challenged after the edit or possibly even in months or a year and then you will have to discuss and defend your edits but to simply start the live article editing after placing a notice on the article top for a week+ is good faith. For smaller articles on subjects that aren't that high profile (and not Biography of Living Persons or large companies or organizations) most times I will just edit it without even waiting a week or so with a top of article notice, maybe leave a note on the talk page explaining my rationale but thats it. Hope that helps. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 22:40, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

My sincerest thanks to you. It is really nice to have feedback about my concerns and questions. I tried to find Le Prof...but he is not a registered user. At this point any type of editing guidance in appreciated - since I still feel like I'm acclimating to a new, live and constantly evolving environment. I'll try and build something in my sandbox and maybe you could let me know what you think.  :)

Lgkkitkat (talk) 01:21, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

That's fine, we appreciate your contributions even if that isn't messaged to you. :). Also if you click the "View History" tab at the top of your talk page you can see that his username is User:Leprof 7272, and as wise as he appears you should tell him to please add ~~~~ like we all should do.  :P Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 03:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Requesting guidance, II[edit]

@ Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way, @Lgkkitkat: This is all tremendously sound advice from this fellow editor, who has—I have to say—shown patience orders of magnitude more than most can muster here at Wikipedia. Bravo/Brava (?) Marketdiamond. I will add a few quick points here before I get back to work... (Before which—I do indeed forget to sign my name at times; and who knows why the bots miss fixing it sometimes. But I almost never forget the Le Prof, and Market told you how to use Edit histories. Bravo/Brava again.)
Lgkkitkat, my advice, avoid merging articles for your first 3 mos. at least. It is a challenging and tedious process, and most more experienced users are not as patient as Diamond in tolerating mistakes from someone overstepping, and certainly not as patient explaining technical matters. (You are expected to learn from the online resources, on your own.) If you initiate a merger, and overstep, or misread responses, or make technical mistakes, it can unleash a firestorm. I would stick with solid, citation-based content creation and copyediting in your early edits, in existing articles. (I have two mergers going. I find it hardly worth the time to have learned all the tags needing placed, announcements needing posted, etc. Necessary, but tiresome.) Then, a couple months in, take a step of creating a stub of a new article from scratch using the Wizard, importing the necessary pictures, etc. Walk before you run. Accrue the necessary technical expertise. There are editors here, and even admins that will make you suffer for simple mistakes. (Have you been reverted yet, for forgetting to leave an Edit summary?) The fact that you have not found the online guide to initiating a merger says you are not ready to do one. (There is a stepwise process, all laid out.)
Second and third, in re: science articles (Synthetic biology), and even the articles at the border between the hard sciences and social sciences (e.g., Human sexuality): Second, in these, and many other areas, you will find articles in a wide range of states of quality. Do not hold yourself to the standard of doing things as well as those around you, or just as good as the rest of an article, as it stands; instead, find out what the ideals are, and hone as close as you can to the ideals. Take time to read the core policies of verifiability, et al. (Market, can you make suggestions here, and leave links, perhaps?) If you do this, Kit, you will help halt a trend that is debilitating to Wikipedia—that bad articles tend, by advertising low expectations, to remain static in quality, and remain bad, or even deteriorate over time. Like attracts like; people who like inserting content without sources are most at home, and most "successful" (un-hassled, at least) at articles with established patterns of accepting such mediocre editing behaviour. Instead, I would say, specifically here—rather than launch in and try to make big, bold edits in a lot of articles, instead, consider apprenticing yourself for a month at one good article, working with one good editor. (Diamond, is there any article that you are working on, that is in pretty good shape, but needs some systematic attention that would allow Lgkkitkat to gain experience? Somewhere where the questions could be focused on an article you care about, as you show kit the ropes?)
Third, returning to your Synthetic biology questions, and the matter of citations: I came to it because the question was posted and reposted at a Synth Biol editors page, and you (Lgkkitkat) appeared to be missing the answers being offered to you. So I looked to find a place where you were focused, and attentive, and I provided some general guidance, there. (As Market has explained, article discussions go at article Talk pages, more general and more personal discussions go on at User Talk pages, like this discussion).

Requesting guidance, III[edit]

Finally about the advice about citations I gave: Market can explain this in more detail, perhaps. There are a range of Wikipedia policies, some more critical than others. At the science pages, WP:VERIFY is a very critical one. Please read this! You must provide a good secondary (book or review article) citation for every fact that is not common knowledge. We are not professional subject matter experts here. (Well, some of us are, actually, but most are not.) Because we cannot claim expertise, all we can do is source it from someone who we have reason to believe is an expert (i.e., a good published author). I'll state it plainly: In the sciences, if you do not provide a source, but simply bring something from an article or book, you are saying "trust me, it's true"" And we have no reason to do this, and in fact would be fools to do so—for all we know you could be a clever and technical middle schooler basing your writing on a class in science in your school in Poughkeepsie. No, in the sciences, if it is badly sourced, or not sourced, it can (the policies say) be taken out by others; I am simply telling you it will be taken out. It WILL. Count on it.
So I have given you the carrot (learn from Market, set high standards, prevent the backward slide of mediocre articles), and I have shown you a stick as well (you add science text without sourcing, and it will be re-edited or removed). Here are a couple of quick examples, so you can see what I mean:
* Here is a good article, by my standards, and that has been called a Wikipedia "good article" (GA): Click here: [14]. Not the most exciting article but well done, in terms of sources, and everything.
* Here is a medium sized article in moderate shape, but where there are problems with scientific scope and uniformity of referencing. Click here: [15]
* And finally here is an article that is in disastrous shape with regard to its referencing, that may remain so forever, but which has tags place on it (by me, after a visiting user complained, and I was asked to investigate the state of its references). Click here [16]. (Not my area of expertise, but when a book is cited 47 times, and a page number is never given, it gets a failing grade. Note, the "tags" at the opening of the article spell out the problema, and if you click on their definition links, you can learn a lot.
That is all from me. Just find the good books and reviews on Synthetic Biology, and start reading. Then—as a wise old Professor once said to me (rest her soul)—when it all begins to sound the same as you read, THEN it is time to start writing. (And then you know your sources well. Cheers, ta. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:35, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Much appreciation for the kind words Le Prof, and yes I tend to agree that Lgkkitkat should read those tutorials you mentioned (sometimes I assume that he/she already has), great mention! Further I agree that my style (a style honed over many many years of wiki editing) of leaning on WP:BOLD for most edits and a week+ top of article notice then WP:BOLD for major edits is a somewhat acquired taste and from my observations the majority of editors who may excel in certain fields don't adopt that editing style. To seek consensus first, be fair, be empathetic and sometimes willing to compromise is always important but given my background I may enjoy a good all out drag out discussion (some may view as argument or debate). If an editor doesn't mind weeks or sometimes months of sometimes multi-wikipediavenue discussions potentially involving multiple editors then the WP:BOLD view might be for you, 90% of the time it never comes to that even with suggestions like Chartis but an editor should be prepared to make several defenses of edits and take constructive criticism humbly if the advice of WP BOLD is followed. I thank Le Prof for pointing that out, I don't want to be misunderstood on that point, also for scientific or academic type articles (of which I rarely edit due to my lack of expertise in those fields) the standards are deservedly higher. I should also caution that in the last few years I've been editing Wikipedia Portals which both have lower standards than even pop culture articles and are in desperate need of attention from editors (so any attention is better than none in some cases). I am confident that Lgkkitkat will feel things like this out, and with Chartis which I will claim some expertise I'd defend any such merger but Le Prof has a valid concern that such an edit by a relatively new editor might be taken by some contributors the wrong way, I would wade in to disagree with them on that but better not to appear to burn bridges as a first year editor. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 07:22, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

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Service[edit]

Barnstar-abc.png The Helping Hand Barnstar
For service above and beyond the call of duty, in moving a new editor toward independence and high quality contributions, I award this enfant star, one of only a few I have given out in my tenure here. Leprof 7272 (talk) 07:23, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks to you Le Prof! Much appreciation that some of your smart ones are watching, and also big thanks for completing some of my advice, I do have a somewhat unique view of the Wikisphere so any blindspot checks are welcomed! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 07:28, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Pleasure is all mine. Your ping was a needed highlight of a down evening. And kudos to you on your selection of User page art. And, I happen to be a fan, at a distance, of your great city and state. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 07:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

AIG - Chartis: Part II[edit]

Hi. I was away for a week but I am back now. I have the content I think should be added into AIG from Chartis in my sandbox. Can you please take a peek and let me know what you think? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lgkkitkat/sandbox Lgkkitkat (talk) 21:01, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! I have been busy work related in the last few days but I will check out your link, also be aware that I do have a bit of a unique take on things at wikipedia (tho very defensible if certain editors wish to explore social logic with me ;-) ), so it is always best to get a wide variety of editors and contributors to take a look at it. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 23:36, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I did leave my opinion on that sandboxes talk page. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 04:47, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the sandbox review. I'm going to try and round up more support regarding the additional information for evaluation - to follow proper protocol.Lgkkitkat (talk) 16:28, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Next Step for Chartis[edit]

What is the next step to merge my sandbox info over to the AIG? How do we to close Chartis page and redirect to AIG? Do we need more approvals?Lgkkitkat (talk) 18:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lgkkitkat, I haven't seen if you posted this to the relevant Wikiprojects or any discussion on the articles talk page. I do see a few comments under Hiland109. It seems this idea has been out there for awhile. I repeat that I am indifferent about this particular issue, but I will look it over in the next few days and see if I can bring some closure to it (or at least prompt any potential interest or discussion to arrive at consensus). I do like your proposal in your sandbox for a more streamlined Chartis page. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 00:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Chartis[edit]

Thank you for the redirect from Chartis to AIG.Lgkkitkat (talk) 17:45, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, it will be interesting if there is a revert or discussion in the next 30-45 days or so. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 19:58, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
    • ^ Cite error: The named reference blabla was invoked but never defined (see the help page).