User talk:Mattnad

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Archive 1: December 2006 – April 2010

Archive 2: May 2010 – December 2013

Economic growth[edit]

Was reviewing something on state taxes and ran into this "DO TAX STRUCTURES AFFECT AGGREGATE ECONOMIC GROWTH? EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE FROM A PANEL OF OECD COUNTRIES". Tax Foundation Chief Economist Dr. William McBride said of the OECD panel data analysis, they "found progressive income tax systems specifically are negatively related to economic growth. This may occur due to the way these systems disincentivize certain behaviors. According to Dr. McBride, the more we try to make an income tax progressive, the more we undermine the factors that contribute most to economic growth: investment, risk-taking, entrepreneurship, and productivity. This is because high-income earners tend to do much of the saving, investing, risk-taking, and high-productivity labor."[1] I mention this as we were involved in that dispute on Progressive Tax where that OR leap was made in the graph from progressive tax to increased equality to economic growth. I have not moved to add any prose to the article based on that dispute, because my position is to leave it out, but if something does get added, this material should be included as part of NPOV to counter the implied conclusion. Figured I'd share it before I forget about it. Morphh (talk) 20:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty confident from the RFC effort that a leap will not happen, absent of a reliable source that draws that conclusion, and then it would need to be something more authoritative than someone's blog. My personal opinion on this matter is that progressive taxes vary quite a bit by region and income type, so it's a bit ridiculous to generalize either way.Mattnad (talk) 21:52, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

@Morphh: have you found any secondary sources which agree? EllenCT (talk) 20:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Education[edit]

FYI, EllenCT also inserted that content here. I wasn't sure if the "supporting source" she referenced in the edit summary was her own, which we previously discussed was not supporting or if she was referring to the source you provided, which you seemed to indicate also did not support that conclusion. Since I haven't had a chance to read the link that you posted, it would be better if you reverted, being familiar with both sources. Morphh (talk) 18:20, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

The supporting source she uses is the same one you read and commented on previously, as it appears in the prose, which essentially states that people with college education earn more, and therefor pay more taxes (Barry; Burtless, Gary; Steuerle, C. Eugene (December 1999). Lifetime Earnings Patterns, the Distribution of Future Social Security Benefits, and the Impact of Pension Reform (report no. CRR WP 1999-06). p.43) It makes no mention of public tuition subsidies. The content for P. 43 is "TABLE 10: TWO WAYS TO MEASURE REPLACEMENT RATES FOR MINT AND SSA, 1931- 1935 BIRTH COHORT (FIGURES IN PERCENT)" I think she is just randomly picking sources that are close to what POV she wants to push. The graph caption "Government investment in college tuition subsidies usually pay for themselves many times over in additional tax revenue" has no supporting source - probably because it's not true, at least not in aggregate. The source I introduced on the talk page indicates that often public tuition subsidies are enjoyed by students who would have gone to college anyway and paid themselves, among other reasons subsidies create distortions.Mattnad (talk) 18:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I note that neither of you have ever addressed the math in either of the law review articles from California or Michigan. EllenCT (talk) 20:38, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Fort Lee lane closure scandal - Complaints about media coverage, with coatracking of unrelated political events can safely be removed.[edit]

Please note my agreement with you in Talk:Fort Lee lane closure scandal#Complaints about media coverage, with coatracking of unrelated political events can safely be removed. about your recent removal of items in the "Reactions and impact' section in the Bridgegate scandal article.

Hopefully, we can gain consensus, or at least a majority, who agree with you and me that these items should be removed. Feel free to add your comments to the Bridgegate Talk section. Wondering55 (talk) 19:03, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Invitation & Thanks[edit]

WikiProject Opera
Hello Mattnad! I noticed your contributions to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Austrian_economics/Workshop#Topic_bans, and thought you might be interested in WikiProject Opera, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of all aspects of opera.

If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can find out more about the project. On the project's talk page editors working in the area can exchange ideas and ask questions. Thanks! – S. Rich (talk) 15:50, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

@Srich32977: - thanks for the invite. I have a wide range in music interests - however Opera is not one of them, although I suspect you suggested this in recognition of my reference to a classic tune from the Mikado. I was once given excellent tickets for the New York Metropolitan Opera production of La Boheme. I never slept so well ;). Mattnad (talk) 16:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Notification of automated file description generation[edit]

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Incomplete DYK nomination[edit]

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Orphaned non-free image File:Plexapp Logo.png[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Plexapp Logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:36, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Plexapp Logo.png[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:Plexapp Logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. TLSuda (talk) 19:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

EllenCT[edit]

Her error is a combination of not realizing that there is reasonable disagreement on the matter of whether taxes on the top 1% are progressive, and not understanding "false consciousness". Karl Marx, who was a bad economist but a good theorist of history, understood a concept of false consciousness, in which a class or a segment of a class is systemically mistaken as to their class interests. The horrible example in US history is the Ku Klux Klan, which was founded partly by rich white Southerners, who recruited poor white Southerners, and persuaded them that the cause of their poverty was black Southerners, when the real problem was inequality, that is, the rich white Southerners. My own analysis is that the Tea Party movement is false consciousness. Middle-class Americans have been led by the Koch brothers and others to believe the Tea Party doctrine that all wealthy people are job creators (some are, and some are not) and that all taxes are job-destroying (mainstream economic analysis is that they shift jobs from the private sector to the public sector, and that there may be disagreement as to how effectively this is done). To champion the rich does not mean that one is being paid by the rich, only that one gives more credit to the rich than they deserve. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:39, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon:, no doubt you are correct. For me, this is mostly an issue of having articles that represent the best available information in a cogent and well written fashion. I don't think providing CBO analysis of effective tax rates by income group is championing the rich. It's just providing a fairly authoritative reliable source which EllenCT does not like because it conflicts with her POV. EllenCT is hurting the project and wasting a lot of people's time.Mattnad (talk) 16:49, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes. My issue with her is that her allegations of paid editing are a serious personal attack. It may be POV editing, but, unless you have evidence, don't call it paid editing. (There is a special case of paid editing that is not commercial editing or paid advocacy editing, and which Wikipedia encourages. That is editing by professors in their areas of expertise.) Anyway, that is my issue. We can agree to disagree about taxes on the rich, but don't claim paid editing. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Wrong article[edit]

Mattnad, on your recent reply you state the article is about progressive taxation, but I think you meant to say tax policy, perhaps thinking of the other article Ellen was referencing. Morphh (talk) 15:22, 3 June 2014 (UTC)