User talk:Moonriddengirl

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If you are here with questions about an article I have deleted or a copyright concern, please consider first reading my personal policies with regards to deletion and copyright, as these may provide your answer.

While you can email me to reach me in my volunteer capacity, I don't recommend it. I very seldom check that email account. If you do email me, please leave a note here telling me so or I may never see it. I hardly ever check that account.

To leave a message for me, press the "new section" or "+" tab at the top of the page, or simply click here. Remember to sign your message with ~~~~. I will respond to all civil messages.

I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply; I will leave you a "talkback" notice if you request one and will generally try to trigger your automatic notification even if you don't. (I sometimes fail to be consistent there; please excuse me if I overlook it.) If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it, but I would nevertheless appreciate it you could trigger my automatic notification. {{Ping}} works well for that. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, feel free to approach me here.

Admins, if you see that I've made a mistake, please fix it.
Hours of Operation

In general, I check in with Wikipedia under this account around 12:00 Coordinated Universal Time on weekdays. I try to check back in at least once more during the day. On weekends, I'm here more often. When you loaded this page, it was 04:34, August 23, 2014 UTC (purge). Refresh your page to see what time it is now.

RAF Merryfield & possible copyvio[edit]

I went to the RAF Merryfield article to try to add some references and found much of the text is very similar to this site. It was added to wp in 2007 (diff) but I have no idea whether wp or the other site had the text first - should I add a copyvio label?— Rod talk 21:49, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi. :) A quick search suggests that website is rather new ([1]), but that's not definitive, because it could have come from somewhere else (meaning the website - they do sometimes move. :D). Their "About Us" page suggests that may be the case, as they claim to have been around since 2001. Given that, I want to take a look at the evolution of the content to see if I can tell which came first. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay, typo at insertion point ("to he built") suggests it was either transcribed from a book or developed here naturally. That error is not on the external site. Excellent sign minutes later with small changes such as camp->airfield and August 24->24 August. The external site uses both of them. The "Ahhot" typo is a little concerning, though, as that kind of thing usually indicates a poorly digitized source - the scanner misreads the lower line of the "b". Also note "2$" for 26 and "September &" for "September 6". Here's more of that: "Ramshury" instead of "Ramsbury". But again a change is made ("with Merryfield" becomes "with the station"). I think the source you spotted copied from us, but if I could get inside of it, I'd be looking at UK Airfields of the Ninth, the source, for matches. :/ I don't suppose you have a copy of that book, do you? I'd love to eliminate that concern. Unfortunately, the contributor who added the article does have an early history of issues (see 1 and 2, for instance. There are other CSB notices, but I'm not checking those, having verified these two). I need to make sure that the content was not copied and that, if it was, the content is PD and properly attributed per current plagiarism guidelines. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:24, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for looking. I don't have the UK Airfields of the Ninth book but did get the Berryman one out of the library - which prompted my interest in the article. Your expertise and tenaciousness in these queries is brilliant.— Rod talk 13:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I've had a lot of practice. :D I guess I'll start with WP:REX. They can sometimes help. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:07, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Check back at REX, me. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:07, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Hey there. I saw this discussion as I've still got Skinny's page watchlisted. I have got Airfields of the Ninth, and I'm afraid to say that when I was using it for work purposes a few months ago, I noticed that of the ones I looked at, almost every article on airfields that are in that book, contains copyvios of varying sizes (RAF Thruxton and RAF Stoney Cross are memorable, plus a dozen others). The book is at work, but I'll check it tomorrow and give you some examples. Sorry, I only just remembered this issue - it's quite big, but was of low priority when I was reading the book as the work came first! Seeing this thread has just reminded me... Ranger Steve Talk 13:51, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Thanks Ranger. When you have a chance, could you make a list of the articles that need looking at? Also, Pinging MRG, Pinging MRG, cleanup on Aisle 3. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Will do. Be warned though that there's dozens of airfields in the book. I'll probably do it on a county basis, as the book does, and it may take a while. Ranger Steve Talk 14:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Oh dear... thanks for taking up that herculean task. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah. If anyone else has a copy of the book, it might be handy. By the way, something weird with your sig datestamps above (March 2014?). Ranger Steve Talk 14:21, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • That's deliberate, to make sure it doesn't archive too early :) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:21, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes. :) I was hoping not to forget this one. Thanks, Crisco, for pointing out the activity - as focused on the little copyright investigation as I've been, I think I would have missed it altogether. One thing I might suggest, @Ranger Steve:, if you don't mind - can you check to see if there's a pattern in who added the problematic content? If so, we can do this as a regular WP:CCI. If it's been copied by multiple people (the way Banglapedia has been), it's a far different problem. If it's one person and there's at least five problematic articles, I would open a CCI for him. If you would prefer, if you can just list for me maybe 5-10 articles that are clearly copied from that source, I'll be happy to do the investigation. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:13, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Will do. I'll shove it all in a sandbox and then you can decide where best to put it. Looking above, I think you've already identified the main source of the problem, but I'll confirm this more definitively tomorrow. Ranger Steve Talk 16:48, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi both. I've started a summary of one article at User:Ranger Steve/Sandbox3, to give a flavour of the issues. There are 62 articles in Airfields of the Ninth; I've randomly looked at a few and made some comments. I'm afraid that's all I've got time for today. I fear it may take some time to ascertain how deep this issue goes; it might be worth contacting the editor in question directly and seeing if he'll take on the work... Ranger Steve Talk 07:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Ranger Steve. I've done so, leaving him a note in the existing section for copyright concerns on his talk page. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:19, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Thank you, Ranger Steve. I note you indicate that the editor in question has a concerning propensity for unattributed cross-article copying. Not good. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Just to give scope here, I have gone ahead and run the CCI: User:Moonriddengirl/CCI sandbox. I randomly spot-checked the first article on the top of the fourth page. It was an article on a song, and it was copied from a website but cleaned long ago. I popped in on an article midway down page 7, Jamie Colby, and find the following passage added to the article (among others):

While waiting to take the Bar Examination, she was asked to fill in at a television station for an anchor who was on maternity leave. She enjoyed it so much that she decided to seek a future in Journalism, although she did later take and pass the bar....

Since the passage cites IMDB, I checked IMBD, where i find:

While waiting to take the Bar (to become a lawyer), she was asked to fill in at a television station for an anchor who was on maternity leave. She enjoyed it so much that she decided to seek a future in Journalism, although she did later take and pass the bar.

This was added in December 2011. I haven't checked the other sources for copying. That's about all I have time for right now. @Wizardman:, I already pinged you on his talk page, but your thoughts here would be welcome. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:02, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Ugh. And. Uuuuggh. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:08, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Ouch. I was going to list all the airfields in my sandbox and start summarising the extent of copyvio in each, but I suspect it might not be necessary? Anyway, I've taken a random airfield again; RAF Balderton. Again, whilst its not a direct copy and paste, a lot of content is very very similar. A summary will appear in my sandbox shortly. Also, I have a concern about the black and white images used in most of these airfield articles. The photos themselves, most of which were taken by the RAF between 1942 and 1946, are presumably out of copyright. However, notice the runway numbers and north arrow? They're exactly as they appear in the book and are most likely modern annotations. Would they therefore be copyright of the author/publisher? Milhist would hate to lose these images, but I thought I'd better mention it. Ranger Steve Talk 14:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
      • Ooh, images. This is where I prove a little more useful than just pinging people. Based on my look, it's probable that the numbers at File:Balderton-18apr44.jpg, for instance, would not pass the threshhold of originality needed to claim a new copyright (although I note that the UK does have a lower threshhold than the US, so at worse this would have to be hosted on Wikipedia). Doubt the directional arrow would be PD, though, unless it was in the original. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:47, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
        • In my experience of them, RAF aerial images do not have a north arrow (an north is rarely at the top!). Sandbox has been updated. Ranger Steve Talk 14:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
          • Which means a lot of cropping in the future ... :-( — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:59, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
            • If the CCI has that many issues we're finding already, we probably don't have a choice other than to open it, although the sheer number means it will probably never be resolved :/ Wizardman 16:59, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I've opened it at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/20130819. He's been actively working on cleanup, I'm happy to say, and I'm going to go in and annotate which articles he's cleaned, but, @Ranger Steve:, it would be really helpful if you could first take a look at a couple of them to see if the cleanup has addressed the problem. Maybe [2], [3], [4] and [5]? If those four are okay, then I think I can generalize that the cleanup is going well. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Can do tomorrow (been out of the office today). Ranger Steve Talk 16:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
      • Sorry, been hectic for a few days and I won't be around for another ten days. Looking at those 4, they seem to be fine now. I haven't read all 4 in minute detail, but I can't see any evidence of block passages. I have noted that the cleanup has been quite blunt on some other articles, basically hacking almost all of the content out, which might include other, non-copyvio, contributions. I'll have to check later. Ranger Steve Talk 11:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
        • Thank you, and no worries. We all have real lives. :) (Hopefully!) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Copyright issues[edit]

Ok, I understand. Thank you. I will try to write my words on all the articles. I have a question: if I want to write the words of a company, artist etc., how should I do this without being copyrighted? SicaSunny (talk) 05:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) First, use no more than is necessary (as opposed to convenient) for the purposes of the article. Consider making it a footnote rather than putting it in the body text. In any case, enclose the text in quotation marks or block-quote templates, and attribute it to the original source, so that it’s absolutely clear who wrote it. If your source for the quotation is secondary, e.g. a newspaper article, be sure to cite that as well. Place the material in context with relevant commentary: don’t create whole paragraphs or sections containing little or nothing but quotations, even if the individual excerpts are all short. The relevant policy is at WP:NFC#Text; the style guideline & advisory essay linked there are also recommended reading.—Odysseus1479 19:40, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 August 2014[edit]

Sami Yusuf edit[edit]


Thanks for notifying me. I just have a small concern. When I worked on updating the Awakening Records page with the dispute (putting what's on Sami Yusuf's page and adding the press release from Awakening Records, the change was reverted because (quoting the editor): "It is an internal dispute and it is self-sources".

In Sami Yusuf's page the whole paragraph depends on what he describes of the dispute, which is biased and it does not include reliable sources, so I think if I should not edit it myself (being affiliated with Awakening Records and fearing the conflict of interests) then at least the article should be edited still because if not then Wikipedia will be allowing to expose only the Information quoted from Sami Yusuf's point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salmats2al (talkcontribs) 10:47, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I have replied at your talk page. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 10:51, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


You mentioned that you were going to look at the {{ConfirmationOTRS}} template, because it wasn't properly handling the gfdl only option. I now have a number in this category, but if you do open it up, I just tried "pd", "public domain" and "cc0" as parameters, all of which produce a CC3.0 message.

My example is Talk:Cinematic theatre.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:28, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

PD is supposed to work. :/ I did receive clarification on the GFDL statement; I'm off to IRC to see if anybody can fix the display issues. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:49, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Oh, it's working, User:Sphilbrick! I tested in User:Moonriddengirl/sandbox. :) An OTRS agent in IRC said it was functioning for him yesterday. Maybe it's spacing specific? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:56, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
I see what I did wrong. Fixed.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:00, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Two minor notes - I see some agents use license=c as a parameter. I don't believe a single c is an acceptable parameter, but if the parameter is not allowed, it defaults to a CC license. On the one hand, not much harm done, one the other hand, it isn't right. When I found my error, I realized I make some others, so I am using AWB to cleanup, while doing my cleanup, I am changing license=c to license=cc. I also noticed that several tickets I reviewed explicitly mention gfdl, but not CC and are after 2008. I used license=gfdl as a parameter, which renders as both. This doesn't sound like anything worth addressing.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:40, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
User:Sphilbrick, Any tickets for text that are on or after November 1 2008 that mention GFDL but not CC are unacceptable. :( We need to revisit those. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:01, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Oh dear. There are a number. I'll make a list.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:05, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Good news. While I found a few, several were from 2008, and before November, so OK. I found one that started with a gfdl license, but later in the email string, the CC license was mentioned.
The only one that looks like an issue is Talk:Chilled_food--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:46, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Assistance/advice request[edit]

I'm faced with a copyright problem and I'm not sure how to proceed.

An editor added material to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change which I had my doubts about in terms of content. When I checked the sources, I noticed that the wording was a mixture of close paraphrase and verbatim copying (see here). I removed the material and warned the editor; their responses made it clear that they were familiar with the idea of copyvios, but that they stood by their edit and mentioned their "legal rights as an author". Since then, they have inserted the same material into another article with only the most minor changes, retaining the structure of the original and some of the wording.

This isn't the first interactions I've had with the editor; none of them have been pleasant. I think I'm correct in my assessment of the copyright problems here, but I'm also aware that I'm not neither an expert nor am I unbiased. I'm not going to do any good talking to them. That opportunity has passed. I would appreciate your insight on the issue, and advice on how (or even whether) to proceed. Thanks. Guettarda (talk) 04:34, 23 August 2014 (UTC)