User talk:Mountolive/Archive 2

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About the article Crown of Aragon[edit]

I saw you changed some things (many edits but very few new stuff by the way). But you touched something with what I don't agree: you removed the template of Catalan speaking world. Well, don't do that please. Before I restructurated the article, there were 3 templates: History of Spain, Catalan-speaking countries, and another one about culture of Spain and stuff so. I removed the third, but the other two are necessary. Thanks. Onofre Bouvila 23:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you should prove why the other two are necessary, don't you think? Please do so in the talk page. If you convince people, then the change will stay, if not, then you are not smarter than anyone to decide what is necessary and what is not. Thanks Mountolive | Talk 23:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry? The template "Catalan-speaking world" is necessary in the Crown of Aragon article because of obvious reasons: the Crown of Aragon was the origin of what today is Catalonia. The Crown of Aragon ages are probably the most important stage in the History of Catalonia, and it represents a 50% of what Spain is today. I mean, you remove the template for "Catalan-speaking world" but you keep the template for "Spanish history"? Following your arguments, why don't you justify why do you keep the "Histry of Spain" template but you remove the "Catalan-speaking world" template? You are illogical.
BTW it's obvious that the Crown of Aragon is an important part both for Spain and Catalonia, and thus both templates have the right and must be there. It's like adding a catergory: if the article is related to the topic of the category, it must be added; the same with the templates. If there was a template for the Historical region of Aragon, it should be there too.
By the way I don't understand why do you respond to this in your own talk page, because you prevent me to see that you have answered (I don't use to go for your talk page, it was just a casuality that I found that you have answered).
Oh, and by the way the only template I removed was the template for "Spain close-up", which already contained a section called "Spanish history", and as there was already the template "Spanish history" in the article, it was pointless to keep both, so I left the most specific one (the one about Spanish History). Onofre Bouvila 01:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Onofre, my boy, first of all take this friendly advice from me: you don't seem one of the smartest wikipedians out there (that honour is reserved to the choosen ones and not for us) but, actually, well, with the due respect, you are not even one of the smartest Catalanist users either. Why I mention this? Well, because when we are not terribly smart, we'd better try at least to be nice, unless you want to receive this kind of replies (too late in our case, apparently).
Now, do you know why I respond to this in my talk page? think a little....maybe because you left a message in this talk page? yes! very good, you noticed! If you leave me a message here, I respond here, I don't go and respond you somewhere else. I thought this was clear enough and it has been for one year until you came and I "confused you" by replying your message in the same place where you left comment.
[by the way, next time you leave a message in a user's page, you are expected to keep the timely order and don't place it on top of the page like you did here instead of following the previously existing messages]
On the templates...actually I didn't even see the one of history of Spain so, more than an "illogical reasoning" problem it was more than the template is quite smaller than the other one and located in a subordinate postition and, of course, my lack of attention, so take it easy, ok? Ok (of course if you had been nice in the first place I'd offer my apologies now but, since that wasn't the case, you may understand that I just don't care that much to do so).
You'd better work on, as Physchim62 said in the talk page, on a History of the Crown of Aragon template. I'll explain you why: because you removed the other one on the grounds that it had links to "San Fermín" and similarly unrelated stuff to the article. That's fine and, as I said in the talk page, I agree.
However, you seem to fail to realize that "Caganer", "Salvador Dalí", "Antoni Gaudi", "Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua", "Falles", "Sardana", "Tió de Nadal" and many others in the template (I can write you a more exhaustive list here if you need me to) they don't have anything to do to the Crown of Aragón either. Again, yes, the good solution would be to have a "History of Crown of Aragon" template (it would be an interesting one) but not the Catalan speaking template, do you get my point? you do? great.
Be good. Mountolive | Talk 02:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I did not insult you nor offend you; it is you who felt offended, and who have just insulted me. You are not right, but anyway this discussion ends here. Oh, and by the way, take this friendly advice from me: I would change the name of the page where you store your archives, because you are invading the talk page of the user "Mountolive_Archive_1", in case this user existed. Your talk page should be hosted in a subpage (with a "/") inside your own user page. n00b. Onofre Bouvila 17:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Turning Spain into a GA[edit]

Mountolive - just so you know, my motive in this is to get Spain into GA status as quickly as practical, so I am moving on past the section you and I were discussing earlier, and on to Roman Hispania. So ... two things:

1) Do you have information/reliable sources to re-write the Roman Hispania section so that it more complete? At this point, it's more of a collection of miscellaneous information (most of which I'm planning to delete and replace with more important information).
2) Have you seen this article? The latest genetic work strongly suggests that there was an "Ice Age pocket" in northern coastal Spain, where humans lived during the Ice Age; as the ice sheets retreated, those people spread out of the pocket (including following the warming climate north and colonizing the British Isles) - the Celts were much later arrivals from the Mediterranean. This evidence is not quite consistent with your view that the Basques were Celts. So, I'm not going to return to this point for the moment, but since I expect that it will come up again, I'm interested in your reaction to this latest genetic evidence. EspanaViva 01:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I can't help you much with the Roman Hispania. Feel free to improve it.
On the other stuff, this your view that the Basques were Celts is a wrong attribution of words. I never said (because is simply incorrect) that the proto-Basque peoples were Celts. What I said is that they shared mythology, symbols and virtually everything else other than the languages, and so I state my claim that they were Celt-like which is not the same as to say that they were Celts (something they were not).
Since we were striving to reduce the article's length, I can't see the point to detail, within the Celt universe, the proto-Basque stock. Because that would open the door to speculate with other rather enigmatic local populations (I'm thinking Tartessos or the Balearics). So I think this should be a satisfactory explanation.
Now, if you want to hear my opinion on "the latest genetic work", the first thing that comes to mind is some guarding feeling before an article which reads "everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong". While regarding population genetics as a very innovative and useful tool, that doesn't mean that is everything, not at all. I know they have to sell magazines or books and sensational claims help a lot in this regard, but the matter is probably much more complicated than what Mr. Oppenheimer puts it (for not to mention that there are other, say, "Mr. Smith", who disagree with Oppenheimer and also publish in no less thoughtful research magazines as the one provided).
I just read quickly the article and...well, I'll be honest, that was a quick reading until I hit "ice-age refuge in the Basque Country", because there I had to stop.
As we all know, what now is the Basque Country is a quite mountainous area which only allows an extremely narrow coastal strip of flat land. Doesn't matter whatever exceptional climatic conditions applied (neither of which we are given evidence of, by the way) to realize that, nevermind how mild the climatic pocket may have been in the area, the hills would be very cold as it is a bread and butter fact that height = colder, whether in the ice age or in the Sahara. Even now, amidst much more milder conditions, snow is not unfrequent in the Basque hills so go imagine right in the middle of an ice age...because, ok, that might have been a milder area but, hey, right next to there was an ice age going on which are serious words. But it is more shocking and sells more to mention the Basque Country instead of the Landes.
Probably Oppenheimer knows this and the thing is that is apparently proven that the proto-Basque peoples actually come from the Landes region, just to the north of their present location (I think that is even mentioned in the wikipedia article on the matter). That would make more sense in terms of a climatic haven, as the Landes is a flat land (even though the paleoclimatic explanation as to why the Bay of Biscay area -either Landes or Basque country- would have remained a milder area doesn't seem to appear anywhere...but that is another story).
In any case, that would take the proto-Basques out of Iberia and so its relevance in that section we are discussing. This northern origin would be consistent with the fact that some other peoples (possibly Celts themselves as the surrounding peoples in their latter Iberian settlement) forced the proto-Basques to shift southbound to more hostile, but less populated, mountainous areas. But the fact is that they were surrounded by Celts and they become largely assimilated.
Anyway, there you have a few ideas to consider. My point is that everything from pre-history is so speculative that should be considered as much seriously as the Lord of the Rings and the like. And it would be paradoxical that, since we found a source in some magazine, we state as definite what will always remain as the most obscure and out of reach part of the history, the pre-history.

Mountolive | Talk 05:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, amigo, for your quite interesting thoughts. As I mentioned, I'm moving on to the Roman sub-section today (and other sub-sections over the next days). You might be interested that Oppenheimer has published a number of widely-read books on the topic, not just this article (check out You might also be interested in the discussion at Hispania#Prehistory_and_early_history.

However, as I say, my intent here is upgrade each of the sub-sections on a systematic basis, so I'm moving on to the next sub-sections, but I did want to share with you related information as I find it.

Finally, it really would be useful if you could find and include some reliable sources and footnotes in the Pre-history subsection! EspanaViva 19:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added some sources for pre-history subsection in Talk:Spain. Regards, Maurice27 20:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
My pleasure if you find my comments interesting. Don't get me wrong: I am not saying that Oppenheimer is a "one hit wonder" or a sensasionalist, but I just think that all things related to pre-history are really impossible to evaluate, despite we are eager to cling to genetic data or any other thing, because is human to strive for certainty. However, we are not even certain of what happened in the Middle Age, so go imagine in the pre-history...I might take a look tonight at the talk page you mention, however, my contribution would most likely only be to stress the need of put any "evidence" under suspicion or doubt due to my former comments.
Mate I'm sorry, but I am just too lazy to look for citations, I'm sorry about that. The only thing I do, after being wikitrained is that, when news come out in the newspaper for example regarding economic statistics in the EU, then I am reminded of this and go to whatever the official page and update, like I did in the Economy of Spain main article with the latest Eurostat data but, other than that, I am just too lazy to browse for citations. This said, I am also a bit sour of some kind of editors (I'm generally speaking now, not your case) which just regard something as a source because it is in some website, like if there weren't millions of untrue and biased websites out there.
But that's another story.

Mountolive | Talk 20:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pues, entiendo bien . . . ¡gracias! EspanaViva 21:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


No, you shouldn't talk about penises on Talk:Andorra. Wikipedia has a dedicated page, named Talk:Penis, for talking about penises. It also has a page named Wikipedia:No personal attacks which you ought to read. Physchim62 (talk) 13:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It also has a Wikipedia:Neutral point of view... You should maybe take a look there, because Mountolive is probably the most civil and good-willing guy around. BTW, you should take a look at this: [[1]] if we are going to start talking about penises... I just loved it! Maurice27 16:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Physchim, to say that I was talking about penises on Talk:Andorra is a bit exaggerated. I was talking of something else and then I came up with a (bizarre, I admit) example. Did you consider that a personal attack on anyone? Because that is what follows from your reccomendation to read the guideline. If so, well, my apologies but, again, no ofense was meant, as I thought it was clear. Mountolive | Talk 16:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


I think that the best way to solve the problem of Valencia is discussing it and finding common points of view, not giving up, and I think we were now going in the right direction. I had in mind to make a proposal about the name and I was thinking already in some aspects of it, but this days I'm pretty busy and I didn't have enough time to work on it. I hope you reconsider your decision. Regards,--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 07:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

In despite of our different political ideas (or maybe because of them) I ask you to come back and help improving the Valencia (autonomous community) article.
My English is very poor, so I'm not the best guy to talk in this language, and many times I say a different thing of what I intended to. Sometimes (Maurice27 and) you laugh at others' ideas. But I keep you regarding as a reasonable guy acting on a good faith basis.
Your proposal of discuting the proper names one by one was right, if Land of Valencia is a bad translation of País Valencià then it must be replaced by a proper translation when we find it, that's my only statement. Does Valencian Country fits English grammar and Valencian nationalist feelings? Then go for it!
The problem in that article (in my opinion) is that Maurice27 enraged Joanot, their arguments broke the constructive debate and threw others into a vicious circle. He may be a very collaborative wikipedian, but his style is not the best one when discussing certain subjects.
As for me, I have no problem with you at all. So you'll be wellcome. --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 10:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments, really. But, as Casaforra says, the talk page has entered a vicious circle mood. I agree with Xtv that the best way is discussing, and so I took this "Land of Valencia" matter as a test of the willing to discuss: by all accounts that is a stupid name and I only compiling what the people whom Joanot had left frustrated said (look in the archives, I am not the first to leave the talk page due to his stubborness, there are already a few "fallen in act of service"). I said to myself: "if Joanot keeps sorrut then there is little to do". That's what has happened and, so, there is little to do from my side.

Discussing is fine, but we discuss to compromise common views, if one side is not willing to give in, then discussing just for the sake of discussing is out of my interest and, actually, it may end up frustrating me. Discussing to a deaf or blind audience doesn't have much sense and, when all the evidence brought is about to make you change your mind, then you can always say "but I have a source" or "but wikipedia is not a democracy", so, in this scenario, is better to quit discussion for me. I have better things to do than try to convince some boy that English people find stupid "Land of Valencia", specially if...well, he does not want to be convinced.

Anyway, my basic proposal is there after all. You both are reasonable guys so you all guys can manage well with whatever discussion takes place there. Besides, if Jmabel joins the debate, you'd better listen to what he says: he is a very experienced and fair wikipedian (and with a slight Catalanist touch which you would appreciate, because quant més sucre, més dolç ;)

Again thanks for your support. I appreciate it. Mountolive | Talk 18:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

p.s. by the way, since my decission is firm, I'd rather not keep this debate open in this talk page either. So please anyone coming from that talk page, please refrain to reopen the debate here. Gràcies!

Crown of Aragon[edit]

I just reverted some edits (not all) of because he did an obvious vandalism in the talk page of the Portal:Catalan-speaking Countries which has already been deleted (so then I can not show you his acts, but you can ask to an admin to confirm it) and then I assumed he was a vandal and he didn't come to contribute but only to destroy. And no, I think not every exabrupte can be written in a talk page even if it is related to the article (and you know we have some examples about it ;-) ). I think a blaver has the right to give his oppinion and give his sources, references and everything, of course, but not to say only bullshit which doesen't contribute at all in the article. Anyway, if you still think my action was not correct, I'll be pleased to put again such an interesting and constructive contribution ;-). Best regards,--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 08:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I was not aware of what he did in the "Catalan Countries" portal. I guess that was outright vandalism and, indeed, to be removed right away. This said, well, generally speaking I would never remove comments from a talk page which are related to the article, doesn't matter how crazy they may sound to us.
This said, like some mutual friend told you once "ego te absolvo" :P (really, you should consider what Maurice says, he usually has a point, but just don't take it in the literality ;). In other words: no need to restaure that ;) Mountolive | Talk 18:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I swear it wasn't me[edit]

Following my comments above, I had unchecked the infamous "Land of Valencia" from my talk list, however tonight I was going to copy some info from the geography section to some other article so I went there, saw that edit about the names and I had to laugh!

Still, I swear: that anon is not me but...on the other side, I admit that I found it too funny to be reverted so I am not completely innocent or guilty by association I guess...if only because none of them are sourced names!!! LOL But even better than the edit itself is that Mr. Onofre made a punctuation edit right after without noticing it! LOL I really think from the first of his edits that he is a promising addition to the Catalanist flock and he will bring new joys to us all... Sic transit gloria mundi for "the Land of Valencia" Mountolive | Talk 02:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

"Land of the Valencians, Land of Fallas, Pujolland!, Land that Time Forget, Landudno!, Land me a Tenner Mate!!, The moon Landings, The Normandy Landings, The Ill-fated Mallorca Landings!!!, The Balliwick of Valencia, The Electorate of Valencia, Obrint Pas!!, Valencia Orange County!!, The land with No Name, or Hotel Catalonia by the eagles!!!" some of these are just vandalizing as one of the fine arts! God, I wish I knew who made this...I have suspicions and, not, is not that one you are thinking of ;) but, unfortunately, I will never know...

No, no ho he vist a la teua pàgina, senzillament tenc la pàgina a la meua Watchlist i quan ho he vist sí, m'he descollonat un poc XD. Sí, hui m'he alçat d'hora. Tu què, ara te'n vas a dormir? Nanit doncs!--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 07:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sí senyor, dins d'un ratet me clave en el sobre. Bona nit i...aixina m'agrada: gent matinera també en diumenge ;) Mountolive | Talk 07:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC) Ah...i que no s'enteren per ahí pels puestos de que dius "hui", que això són paraules rares dels valencians :P :D

Actually, since that page has left such a bad taste in my foul mouth, I think is fair for me, and will help me to lick my wounds, if keep here and don't let fade away the most brilliant moment in the polemics which drove me out, courtesy of the genious vandalizer...Respect! [2]

ps. I have to find a source for "The ill fated Mallorca landings" I am sure that, like the truth, is out there....

Hi Mountolive: I've left what I think is my final word on the Valencia page, a challenge to find sources for THOSE names. I hope they read it rather than reverting to the same bloody sources, but I doubt it. Anyway, I'm off to listen to Johnny Cash and Obrint Pas :-) boynamedsue

That's a rather weird musical mix, ain't? ;) Hey, if you ever found a source for "The ill Fated Mallorca Landings"; please let me know, ok? ;)
Myself I am now pursuing sources for "Land of the Three Lands Which Make the Valencian Country" and "Land of the Ever Shining Sun (and an Occasional Flooding From Time To Time)"...I'll keep you posted if there are news in this regard :D Mountolive | Talk 18:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Clean up Valencian pilota articles?[edit]


Maybe it looks strange for you, but I'd like you help me improve the Valencian pilota articles.

I'm afraid my English is not good enough, as I've been pointed in the Pelayo trinquet article. There are also a couple of articles in the ca:wp I'd like to translate but I don't dare (ca:Història de la pilota valenciana or ca:Colps de la pilota valenciana). In case you don't want or you can't, I'd be very grateful if you only could read twice the Valencian pilota articles in order to proofread them.

Since you are quite fluent in English, you are Valencian too, and our debate regarding Valencia (autonomous community) didn't involve personal attacks I want to believe we may collaborate. Thx anyway, --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 08:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Casaforra. I started reviewing the article you mention but I just hit in the first sentence "Catalan" and "Land of Valencia". I don't think "Catalan" is the best way to call the language in the Pilota Valenciana article (as you said some other day regarding Álvaro: who are we to call it a different way than the one their very users do?). I could edit those anyway but, since it was you who called my attention about this article and you may feel comfortable with those words, I guess it is not fair that I take your invitation only go there to "tocar-te els collons" ;)
If you agree that we edit these two to "Valencian" and "Valencian Community", I'd happily review it, if not, I'd rather stay away. I want to be honest with you so please be advised beforehand that my contribution in reviewing may be very limited, because I am not an English native speaker either. This means that the edit I am proposing may not compensate whatever reviewing I could do. Let me know. Mountolive | Talk 18:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Last time I checked the Valencian article it stated clearly that this is a part of the Catalan language. And the Valencia (autonomous community) is the same place, whatever the political views we have about it. So those changes you propose are not a problem for me.
I'm Valencian, I'm not a Catalan countries supporter, but I use the name Catalan as a whole when referring to the language because it's a scientifically truth. I guess US citizens don't feel bad because they speak English (not US-ian or whatever). I'm not better or worse because I say vesprà instead of vespre, and Andalusians are not better or worse because they xicoh instead of chicos.
In my opinion the Spain portal and the Catalan speaking portal shouldn't be removed in my opinion. Both of them are true.
Feel free to edit the Valencian pilota articles, please. Not just in the translations but also in the style or in the content, but take into account that they are based on prior versions of the Catalan articles.
Thx for being honest and constructive. --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 20:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the Valencian article clearly states that is a branch of Catalan, as it actually is. I really salute your flexibility in this matter, it proves that you are not a Valencian who is slightly ashamed of being Valencian and think that Valencians are something like, I don't know ¿almost Catalans? (like if being Catalan was "the first division of catalanity" and we Valencians were in second...) you may have noticed that some Catalanists in our País Valencià seem to think like that, at least unconsciously, right? (don't worry: I will not mention names ;)
I will pass by the article tonight my time and edit these little (important) things and anything else I may think I can improve but, hey, remember: edits are often a matter of taste and my taste may be different to yours; and your taste, as the article "master", definitely has some privileges over mine ;)
In other words: thank you for your invitation and, whatever edit I do that you don't feel comfortable with, just feel free to revert it.
Have a good day. Mountolive | Talk 20:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
BTW "País Valencià" doesn't translate into English as "Valencian Country", that is why I use it in the original...but this is, definitely, another story... ;)

[reset tabs]

Nice improvements in the Valencian pilota and Circuit Bancaixa articles regarding grammar and small details or explanations. Thx a lot!

If you could watch the rest of articles and proofread them I'd be very grateful. Specially the Pelayo trinquet, whose tag really hurts me. That's why I didn't translate ca:Història de la pilota valenciana or ca:Colps de la pilota valenciana.

Anyway, regarding your comment about being more or less Valencian... Well, we two are Valencian and we two are not afraid to say we speak Catalan in our particular way, not better or worse than any other dialect of that language. But the fact we speak Catalan doesn't mean we are forced to be (or feel) Catalans, that's a personal ideological matter.

Let me set up an example: Spanish was born in Northern Castile, that's where the name "Castellano" for the language comes from. Later that language expanded and got to be spoken in other regions or continents. What about "extremeños"? Are they castellanos because they speak the language born in Castile?

See the point? I'm not ashamed of being Valencian and speaking Catalan. In a Valencian pilota forum a guy complained about a t-shirt with pics of people playing pilota because it had the motto "Som i serem", he accused the t-shirt seller of being a Catalanist and so on... Well, I thought... If "Som i serem" is Catalan? How would he say it in Valencian? "Somos y seremos"? Isn't it sad?

Anyway, I'd prefer to let politics apart. Let's keep improving my poor articles about our sport, please. --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 09:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It's good that you find the small amendments overall positive. I'll try to look at Pelayo trinquet but the problem with these articles is that they are specially challenging to us Valencians (should I even dare to say Spaniards? that's probably too much for ya :P) because the English translations become particularly hard in terms of sports vocabulary. In my case it's even worse because I am not even sure of the Valencian original here! But we can always try a little.
Now, I left a small question in Pilota Valenciana talk page regarding individuals/teams. Would you please answer there? When you do we can edit that piece as well. Mountolive | Talk 20:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey! I just wanted to explicitly thank you your collaboration in some of the pilota articles. Feel free to proofread or suggest improvements to the minor related articles or even translate the original articles I don't dare. But, anyhow, THX  :) --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 08:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, my pleasure if you found my contributions interesting. It's a topic which I find interesting but on which I know nothing at all...well, now I know just a bit, so actually thank YOU. Mountolive | Talk 23:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

help at valencia?[edit]

sorry to bother you but any help would be appreciated. LOV and VC i'm afraid, i know you've left that page but any support you could give might help stop the debasement of the English Language, and the subjugation of the language of Shakespeare to the tyrrany of Estatuts, Autonomies, Political, linguistic and sociological "Experts", and, worst of all, Academias Reales. Greatness Calls. Salut, i força canut. boynamedsue

oh, mate, believe me I took great pain in my balls from that disgraced article! Well, the article doesn't have anything to do with my aching, just some particular user who wants to, well....use it to, I guess, Obrir Pas ;) for his bizarre political project. I said there that I was quitting and I have a reputation to protect...haven't I? probably not anyway ;)
in any case, I'd rather do like that Tom Petty song (one of the few from him I like) and "don't come around (t)here no more". I did already quite some effort there and basically said all I wanted to (on top of the section there is my basic view) and I learnt there -the hard way- that common sense can't beat a google source, at least not in wikipedia. Now the only thing I can do is hope that you can use the ground settled to launch a final attack on the "ill fated Mallorca landings"
I could refer you to a guy full of energies called Maurice27, he's a real Panzer Division himself, but, watch out, he is at times over the top and may provoke a nuke explosion there that could kill everyone, including himself and yourself you know, eventually, the only thing surviving a nuke are roaches may want to be careful there. I am not the first fallen in act of service there and Maurice is a sniper which may get out of control ;)
I believe Psyschim, as a native speaker, was also prone to the "coalition of the willing" :D. Mostly everyone is ready to remove Land of the Aigua de València except the El Álamo guy who will resist by his source. Just use your byzantine diplomatic skills and, if you succeed, everything should be quite easy to remove LOV(e).
Still, all he wants is a "nationalist" way to call it, so after that, he will be pushing for Valencian Country, which is "The Land of the Names II: the Return of the Beast" but...anyway, his point is so obvious that it doesn't excite me anymore... Mountolive | Talk 01:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Given my interest for aviation rather than armoured vehicles, I would like to be described as a Sturzkampfgeschwader or Schlachtgeschwader rather than a Panzer Division... We, pilots, prefer to smell good champagne instead than gasoil... ;) Maurice27 02:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
You got it.
Personally, I would like to take the role of Dr. Strangelove if you may. Hence, you must be, then, Major Kong, the crazy Texan pilot ;) Mountolive | Talk 02:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Where's my cowboy hat???? hehehehehe. I will nuke them all!!! I may also be the crazier General Jack D. Ripper... "water fluoridation is a Communist conpiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids"... Which ever one you consider more insane... Maurice27 05:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
do you see what I mean now, Boynamedsue? :D Mountolive | Talk 05:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Come on Mountolive, you know the Hotel Catalonia: You can check out any time u want, but you can never leave

ouch! you are probably right but, in any case, I just checked out... and Iactually left a sour taste in the hotel's management due to my rogue behaviour, so neither of us is ready, at least yet...I will be happy to help if there was changes in the management ;) Mountolive | Talk 18:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

hiya Mountie, BNS here. Valencia has been cured! it appears to be under new management and everything. Im off to canaletes to celebrate by singing obrint pas numbers at the top of my voice, whilst wearing a Jordi Pujol mask.

I heard the news of the liberation in Radio Free Europe. Do you think that, after all, it was just a case of the medical team made up by Monsieur Maurice and Dr. Strangelove van Mountolive provoking an acute allergic reaction?...I do hope so but, hey, I wouldn't use my own Jordi Pujol mask so soon...I have a feeling that a dramatic setback is about to happen to the patient: when someone finishes his college exams, the Ill-Fated Majorca Landings may rise its ugly head once again...I'll stay tuned to Radio Free Europe and see what happens but I just can't believe that the old management gave in without a final attempt to raise the senyera such as in Iwo Jima.
Thanks for the note, good ol' BNS Mountolive | Talk 23:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
p.s. oh my gosh, I have just noticed, by your very interesting contributions in the perceived humor article, how well you have understood the Catalan Volksgeist and their inner planks...congratulations: you seem to have a stark eye, I would have never realized by myself...Mountolive | Talk 23:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
you would have to be sick (no pun intended here either) for assuming a posteriori pun...damn, the whole thing is genious!

I was having bad day..... (looks sheepish) you'll probably think im some rampant, anti-catalan, zaplanaesque humunculus, but in actual fact you will find a purple stripe and no chicken on my flag. Its so difficult to get over the point to certain folk that names in English do not convey the same information as they do in Span/Cat/Bal/val/Alguer/Cubasegunjordibilbeny. I find it difficult talking to nationalists at the best of times... A lady did thank me for speaking Catalan on t'FGC today though, so Im feeling a bit better disposed to Cas and his friends. Well, while the cat's away, the mice will find slightly more accurate and correct English on Wikipedia. BNS

some days are better than others...some days are better than others indeed. No, you didn't sound like a zaplanesque caganer to me, still, please, if you want to earn an account in conservapedia, then you'd better show some respect for el águila de San Juan, boy! ;)
It is not my case either, actually, I guess I am a suboptimal by-product of what used to be a boy of pure Catalanist stock....I guess that is why I know them so well and, well, believe it or not (I know you don't) I try to bring them down to earth also as a way to improve their reputation abroad ;)
In other words, despite all of the rumours keeping me grounded, no, I repeat, no, I do not follow the inextricable blaverist tenet "no mos fareu cacalans" [sic(k)]. Still, I just do not believe in St. Fuster that a crime?

What should be done now is a bot replacing all the LOV virus from the wikipedia's immunological system (it is everywhere, man, defacing it). Do you know anyone to ask for? If not, I saw EspanaViva asking for that regarding some other topic and someone created the bot for him. Let me know your moody casteller opinion as you whistle some Whiskyns tune. Mountolive | Talk 00:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hehehe, someone must be sneaking into this page and there you go: Land of the pills, thrills and bellyaches is back!! playful, joyful, kinky and pervy as ever!! (I know the matter is dead serious but if we don't give in to the (perceived) humorous side, then we are dead all the same (for real humour, see humour)

Record covers[edit]

Mountolive, your confusion stems from the fact that you were trying to upload the record cover images to Commons. Commons does not allow fair-use rationale images. Instead, all you need to do is upload the images to the English Wikipedia, through Special:Upload, making sure to select the "Album or single cover" licencing tag. -- Chairman S. Talk Contribs 08:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like you don't need my help, I couldn't have explained better. ;-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Casaforra (talkcontribs) 09:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Thanks! so now that I have uploaded do I download them to the article?!?!

Let's imagine you have uploaded this cover: Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg or for instance (Image:Veneno en la piel.png)... To get this image in an article, you have to add, in the section you wish the following:
[[XImage:NonFreeImageRemoved.svgX|thumb|125px|left|A Queen cover from the 70's]] (X not to be included)

This, will be the result:
A Queen cover from the 70's

Regards, --Maurice27 00:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, Maurice! It worked: check it out, I'm proud :D Radio Futura.

Now...I would like to make Radio Futura 1984 pic a bit that possible?

Actually, I would like to enlarge all the pics there just a little, how could I do that?

I already changed "la ley del desierto" to show you. You just have to change the 125px for ¿175px? for example... Al bajar por la rambla me encontré, con la negra flor... Maurice27 08:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thaaaaaaaanks! Actually, I think, in my case, with templates etc, it applies better "El Tonto Simón" than "La Negra Flor" ;) Mountolive | Talk 16:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Roman Catholicism in Albania[edit]

I would be happy to translate the article. The only problem is I'll be pretty busy the rest of this week and then I'll be on vacation for two weeks. So I might take about a month to get it done. If you don't want to wait this long I'd recommend you'd list the article on the appropriate page of Wikipedia:Translation. Happy editing, --Carabinieri 17:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your feedback. I have already used the page you showed me (I didn't know it, it is very interesting, btw). If it hasn't been translated in a few weeks, I may come back to you and see if you can do something: I am not in any kind of hurry. Thanks again! Mountolive | Talk 18:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
It's not the easiest thing to figure out; it took me a while, too, as I expected it to be automated (which it isn't for some reason). So, on the page Wikipedia:Translation/Roman Catholicism in Albania, there is the text {{Wikipedia:Translation/Roman Catholicism in Albania}}. This you need to copy&paste into Wikipedia:Translation/*/Translation Requests/March 2007 (or whatever month it is). I often also copy&paste it into the page for that language in particular, although the German page seems to have some kind of automated function that does it for you. But for instance, the Finnish one doesn't, so I c&p it there, too. If my explanation was bad, please let me know :) -Yupik 07:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
It's good that I asked (and you replied) because, yes, I also expected this to be automated.
Your explanation is probably good enough, I guess it is just me that I am not too smart ;) But, in any case, apparently you have done the whole thing for me, so I thank you very much indeed Mountolive | Talk 16:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Basically yes, you end up having to wait for someone to translate it :D You can, of course, ask people on their talk pages if they would be interested (which I have done when I know it probably will not get done ever otherwise :)). -Yupik 06:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. Carabinieri said that he would translate it in a few weeks if the translation page didn't get any feedback. So it should be fine anyway. Thank you, Yupik! Mountolive | Talk 17:06, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


It was really weird to see references to Radio Futura on your talk page. Now I gotta go dig out my old LPs and CDs :D It's been a while since I listened to them! -Yupik 07:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

La Canción de Juan Perro is probably the best record ever recorded in Spain, and that even if the first three songs are probably the worst in the record. But El "Canto del Gallo" is the Spanish language taken to its best.
BTW, I am quite proud of my work in that article (RF), still, my English is most likely to be weird at times, if not plain wrong. If you want to pay a look there and fix it, you are most welcome Mountolive | Talk 16:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
having said the above, I have to say now that each and everyone Radio Futura record has at least two or three GREAT songs. La Ley del Desierto/del Mar, despite being now an old record with all the (now percieved as) flaws from that time, it still has "Semilla Negra", "La Ley", "Escuela de Calor" "Un africano por la Gran Vía", all great songs which sound perfectly fine more than 20 years after.
Then De un país en llamas has the superb "El tonto Simón", "No tocarte" or "Han caído los dos".
Veneno en la piel is also very good, actually their sales peak, with "Corazón de tiza", "El amigo desconocido", "Condena del amor"....I even got a personal crush on one of what I guess is the minor songs there: "Radar".
In other words: Radio Futura rocks! Mountolive | Talk 05:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
That it does! :D The first album I heard from them was Veneno en la Piel and I was mesmerized! And it's ok if your English is weird at time, so is my Spanish and Catalan nowadays :D -Yupik 06:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
BTW watching the old videos on Youtube is quite humorous! :D I don't remember them being so bad 8) -Yupik 06:42, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh my one ever mentioned anything about their videos indeed ;) Yes, specially the first ones make you blush (so go imagine themselves!). Actually La Estatua del Jardín Botánico is one of the first music videos ever shot in Spain: you can tell it if only looking at the results :D Actually I forced myself to watch it to the end (I believe I never resisted futher than a couple minutes) and, after seeing the part in the beach, with Enrique Sierra and his cool punky hairdo, immediately came to mind "Ashes to Ashes" by David Bowie, right?
In any case, better switch the tube off and the stereo on ;) Mountolive | Talk 17:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


For bot edits, I've replied on my talk page, for the tutorial, it still exists at Wikipedia:Tutorial, but doesn't really seem to answer the sort of questions you're asking. My talk page is obviously open (when I have the time to reply, which is usually but not always), otherwise WP:HELPDESK deals with questions at all levels of experience (I use it myself from time to time for technical problems). Best wishes, Physchim62 (talk) 14:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I will keep this into account: it should be useful. Thank you. Mountolive | Talk 17:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Names of the game[edit]

Well, the problem is that you say that the main promoter of this usage is the Conselleria de Turisme. Do you think is that true? I don't think so. I suggest to remove this sentence because we don't have sources to prove it.

About the "Lonely Planet Guide", it says literally: "And, after a long wait, it has a generally accepted name of its own; when leftwingers were rooting for País Valenciano (Land of Valencia) and the more traditional argued for Reino de Valencia (Kingdom of Valencia), the compromise Comunidad Valenciana (Valencian Community) won and still wins the day". --PmmolletTalk 17:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I think now is better, but I don't believe that "LoV" first appeared in the Conselleria and after in some travel guides. --PmmolletTalk 09:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


Hi Asterion. I was updating this table and have hit here [3] the PSA. I know what's that, it is the Partido Socialista Andaluz, which in the first Catalan elections to the Catalan Parliament won a handful of seats.

Now, the question I have for you is: do you know if this is a defunct party? I suspect yes, but I don't know.

I think this is not to be confused to the latter Partido Socialista de Andalucía by Pedro Pacheco (la justicia es una cachondeo ;) because the latter seems to be a Andalucía only and newer party, but I don't have a clue for the Partido Socialista Andaluz, which shares the acronym it a refoundation?

The Partido Socialista Andaluz (the one which took a few seats in the Catalan election) does not have an article in the Spanish wikipedia either and the existing entry for the Pacheco party does not mention the former, so I am confused.

Anyway, you have a nice Easter and just let me know when possible, so that I can complete the updating of that table. Mountolive | Talk 05:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Mountolive, technically speaking, it is the Partido Andalucista (at the time, still including Pacheco in its ranks). The PSA was born in 1976 out of Alianza Socialista de Andalucía (ASA) and Reconstrucción Socialista de Andalucía (RSA). ASA was the main regionalist party and one of the most active members of the democratic opposition during the late Franco period. Shortly after, the first ever mitin since the Spanish Civil War was organised by ASA in February 1976 (it was also the first time the Andalusian flag was allowed to be waved in a public event. This article is quite comprehensive. The PSA cannot be understood without considering the situation of the Andalusian immigrants in Catalonia. You could even say that at the time, it was more successful over there than in Andalusia, where it ran in coalition with Tierno Galván's Partido Socialista Popular, got a single MP in 1977, who later defected to PSOE, leaving them without parliamentary representation (got to love politics! ;-)) Pacheco's PSA is an offspring of the PA (he usually comes back after a while, as he did last time he founded Poder Andaluz, another spinoff). The current PSA is quite hopeless, it has got no parliamentary representation (neither in the Andalusian Parliament nor in the Spanish one) and only some minor support around Campo de Gibraltar and Jerez de la Frontera. Asteriontalk 11:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
What a great mayor Enrique Tierno Galván was... Gotta miss that kind of politician nowadays. --Maurice27 17:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
"Había que vernos, dando voces en andaluz por los pueblos de cinturón de Barcelona a favor de Jordi Pujol"...yes, really, you've got to love them! :D
That's an interesting paper indeed (thank you)...and not only because you got to see Federico Jiménez Losantos as the responsible of the PSA-Aragon branch.... in Catalonia, which sounds kinda humourous these days, don't you think?
Still, mhh... there's something I don't get: you say that the PSA is the immediate predecessor of the PA but, I seem to understand from that paper that they were not in the same structure (I mean PSA in Andalucía and PSA in Catalonia, Aragón and elsewhere) but they were autonomous cells, in other words, there was not any General Secretary in Seville or anywhere in Andalucía that the PSA Catalan branch reported to, they just freely coordinated policies, is this correct?
I need this info to list the PSA in that Catalan politics table either as a local party or Spain-wide.
What seems confirmed from that paper is that the PSA is definitely defunct, right? I will list it as defunct party there, then.
Thank you for your help. Mountolive | Talk 06:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


I am intrigued by the statement on Comarques of the Valencian Community (won that one!) which says "Despite the comarca [...] having long been of traditional usage in the Valencian Community..." To what extent is that true? Of course many of the comarques correspond to well-defined historico-geographical areas, but the general idea of a sub-province level of administration seems to date from the end of the 19th century at the earliest... As ca: puts it:

Des dels acabaments del segle XIX el País Valencià s'ha estructurat tradicionalment en unes demarcacions territorials anomenades comarques.

"Estructurat" seems a bit strong, and "tradicionalment" in this context is definitely OTT, but otherwise it concords with my general impression. Any thoughts? Physchim62 (talk) 01:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

that is true to a...well, to a zero extent. Comarcas have not "long been of traditional usage in the Valencian Community". They may have had some historic -still very limited- significance in a handful of areas, but, mostly, it is, as an administrative division, a creation of the nationalist and leftist parties back in the 1970s as an alternative to provinces, which were deemed by these as centralizing divisions.
they were drawn for the first time back then, but they have never had any consistent official support ever since, not even from the PSPV-PSOE when it won the Generalitat, despite having been, in the beginning, partial for those. However, after the provincial establishment pressures and lack of social demand, the PSOE looked the other way and they were left as one more division, drawn on the paper, but almost completely empty in meaning.
nowadays, there is not any election whatsoever to the comarca, nor there are any official bodies adjusting to this subdivision. The only thing I can think of are firemen departments: they are usually divided by comarques, since, typically, the comarca is a smaller subdivision but still larger than municipality, which makes it efficient for firefighting purposes.
also, those parties which in the beginning were pushing for them, they have kept their internal administration by comarques, but without little to none impact outside of their own organizations.
also, I can anticipate you will meet some resistance if you want to amend this topic, because nationalists are the only ones taking them seriously nowadays and...well, nationalists are, to say the least, well represented over here, and, for sure, overrepresented when compared to the social reality... Mountolive | Talk 01:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: on wraths and bolded misspelled caps[edit]

Frankly, I think your efforts would be much better spent researching and developing a whole section (or sections) on topics such as the Spanish monarchical divide, the course of military operations in Spain, and social and political aspects relating to the Spanish wartime experience (which I think everyone would like to see, as these are legitimate, poorly understood, and very interesting subjects) instead of endlessly clawing at an Infobox that's only meant to be a simplified summary anyway. Things like "Bourbonics" and "Austracists" may seem satisfying to a certain group of editors, but they're highly problematic, unappealing, unaesthetic, and unecessary to the rest. (And I'd like to think that I'm highly sensitive to representing Spanish historical perspectives on this site, as I'm sure my contributions confirm.) Albrecht 02:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

well, I guess you are right. I know I have been dragged down by Mr. Bouvila, but his claims, while I guess only weird for "anglos" as he says, are meaningful for Spanish and it is difficult not to react and burn fire with fire, which I guess doesn't work.
that research you mention would be great, but I do not have access to the bibliography (I'm currently living in the States) so I guess there is little I can do.
I would happily help you anytime you have any questions, but, at least on Spanish military history, you actually know better than myself. I would only ask you (in general, all the contributors to that article) to please not give in to yelled claims just because they come from Spain, because that is messing an otherwise good article. Mountolive | Talk 03:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

PSPV in coalition with the PSOE[edit]

Not my fault gov', I just add the info boxes! ;) Physchim62 (talk) 21:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC) PS. New record: five different names for the Valencian Community in the article Valencian when I took a look at it last night! Physchim62 (talk) 21:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

hehehe, I know that wasn't you. I was just curious about the Torrent article you dab in the Valencia main article (since every thing Valencian seems to have some "surprise"), so I just dropped by and...found that. That is just hilarious: the PSPV is basically, just a name, no content inside. It is basically the PSOE name in the Valencian Community (everything seems to be about names, right? ;) even though there are a few dozens militants which still hold this name as an internal fraction, but, from there to say that the PSPV could possibly be in coalition with the PSOE is just....well, I don't even have the words!
yes, I saw you the other night working in Valencian. I also passed by and fixed that one you missed in the info box ;)
I told you: it's everywhere! :D Mountolive | Talk 21:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Where did I park my Stuka last night? Man... I'm getting old... ;) --Maurice27 23:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

An Automated Message from HagermanBot[edit]

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button Button sig2.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 21:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

you are a bot and you are supposed to be there to do that work for humans, so you'd better stop whining and do your job, otherwise your help won't be needed and you will be terminated...

Man!!! You answer scared me... juassssssssssss... Don't talk like that to machines... remember terminator. I sign: --Maurice27 22:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

hehehe, I admit that, sometimes, the tension is rather high around here, so I just felt that I don't need a bot to sit on my nerves and released some of that tension by venting to the poor machine ;)
when are you going to take your deserved victory in the flag of Spain article? go for it and take possession, man...
Because I had tonight a nice dinner with a lovely young lady and now that she's asleep, I'm too damn tired... I'll do it tomorrow. Promised! --Maurice27 00:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
oh, you've got the perfect excuse, mate ;) no worries, take your time, you have to please also that thing which we don't know if we are allowed to say here in wikipedia! :D
which we won't mention anymore... ;) --Maurice27 07:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Dialects of Valencian[edit]

I'm sorry but you can't just delete referenced statements like that. Have you read the Dictamen? Let me quote from paragraph 5:

Este nom [valencià] pot designar tant la globalitat de la llengua que compartim amb els territoris de l’antiga Corona d’Aragó ja esmentats, com també, amb un abast semàntic més restringit, la modalitat idiomàtica que ens caracteritza dins d’eixa mateixa llengua.

Tomorrow morning I shall be lecturing all the inhabitants of Capellades as to how they speak a dialect of Valencian, with the AVL to back me up. I must ask you to undo your revert. done Physchim62 (talk) 23:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Igualment, from paragraph 1
Dins d’eixe conjunt de parlars, el valencià té la mateixa jerarquia i dignitat que qualsevol altra modalitat territorial del sistema lingüístic...
and from paragraph 6
D’esta manera es podria garantir coherentment la legítima presència del gentilici valencià fora de la nostra Comunitat...
Physchim62 (talk) 23:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
hehehe, you are probably right: I didn't even bother in checking the reference, so I suggest that you restore it, I will definitely not dare to remove a supported statement, may be interesting to see what happens there :D
and please do not report me for my careless rv! :P Mountolive | Talk 23:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, as an admin, I can report you to myself and then decide what to do. Physchim62 (talk) 23:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
wow, you've done it indeed! :D I'm clicking my seatbelt for a joyride! :D

I'm upset: it took 24 hours for someone to remove the sourced statement (congrats on this edit summary, BTW) Physchim62 (talk) 11:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh thanks, it is just that I'm temporarily in a private crusade to not accept unsourced statements in controversial articles ;)


Kaixo (Hello), hmm you are correct my friend. Yes Herri batasuna changed their name to Batasuna. Sorry for the mistake, and thanks for noticing it. Euskera 18:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Lady Moura[edit]

Let me know what you think about my new "baby" (Article). See Lady Moura. Cheers, --Maurice27 21:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

a thing of beauty ;) Mountolive | Talk 23:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Radio_Futura_1984.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Radio_Futura_1984.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 10:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not have a xxxxxxx idea of what the whole story is about. I just used the first tag readily :D
Now, seriously, the damned image police has erased already one image from my "baby" article and they are now after the other: do you know if there is any course of actions I could take at this point to save it or is it doomed once the image police has found it? What am I supposed to do to save those God's creatures? Please, help! Mountolive | Talk 23:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
You must provide the link (or other source) from which you got the pictures. Until you do that, there's nothing I can do to stop the images being deleted :( Physchim62 (talk) 00:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Both pics (the one which just got deleted and this one about to) can be found in number of websites. This is one of them: [4] Help!
Right, go and add it to the image page so that it has your signature in the history! You can remove the unsourced tag at the same time. I'll go and have a cigarette, fetch a beer, and then I'l sort out the fair use problem! Physchim62 (talk) 01:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
How do I add it? In the talk page? You've got to be a bit patient with me...
  1. follow this link
  2. Add a new header ==Source==
  3. Paste the link which you have above and the words "Copyright Ariola 1984"
  4. Delete the line which starts {{no source
  5. Briefly describe the changes you have made in the Edit summary box (e.g. "Providing source")
  6. Click on the "Save page" button
P Physchim62 (talk) 01:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

And how do I recover now this one from the "Veneno en la piel era" which has been deleted already? it can be found in the same website I mentioned before...

  • You follow exactly the same steps as above, except that you use this link for step 1. The image hasn't actually been deleted yet, simply removed from the article. Image removal is done by a bot, usually a couple of days before actual deletion, because it is the most tiresome part of image deletion and many admins "forgot", leaving redlinks all over the place! Physchim62 (talk) 02:04, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Done. I'll be waiting for your magic to happen bringing them back. Thanks a lot for helpline operator functions ;)
OK, I have added the necessary fair use tags. All you need to do now is to put them back in the Radio Futura article (images like this which are under copyright must be used in articles otherwise they risk being deleted). Physchim62 (talk) 02:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks again. I have restored them "the Mountolive's way" which is editing a previous version where they were included, so that I did not have to bother to bring them back again and place them in the same place etc. I hope this is ok with the Image Police...
By the way, you must be sleepy after your, did you say third beer? :D but one day you may want to clean the article of my infamous prose...but, don't panic, you won't find Land of Valencia in there. Mountolive | Talk 02:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
damn, I wrote "imagines" in the edit summary! Utter decadence..

Which would you rather speak?[edit]

Lemosin or bacava? Physchim62 (talk) 23:18, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


Thanks Mountolive for the reference. I would further study it before any other modification. Cheers! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Toniher (talkcontribs) 15:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

Alternative Names of The Murcian Community[edit]

In the course of its history, and specificallly since the Spanish transition to democracy, The Murcian (autonomous) Community has been known by many semi-official, statutal, non-statutal, temporary, provisional, pre-ambular and post-ambular titles.

Here are some of the unofficial names chosen from a hat by The Royal Autononomous Murcian Naming Commitee, and ceremonially inscribed on the toilet wall of the Peña FC Barcelona "Cruyff", in Lorca. [1]

Murcian Community, The Murcian Community, A Murcian Community, The Murcian Commune (between April 1936 and June 1936), Comunitat Murciá, Murcielago Country, Greater Carxester, Land of Murcia, THE Land of Murcia, The Land of Some Murcians (The Rest Being In Barcelona), Sisters of Murcy, Murcy Gray, Morrisey, Maurice27, The Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Murcia, The Socialist Republic of Murcia, The Murcian Countries, and Ferry across the Murcy.

It should be remembered, however, that its only official designation remains "¡Murcia, coño!." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 19:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

"Morrisey, Maurice27, The Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Murcia"... :0 Do I have a bronze statue in the middle of a nice, beautiful plaza anywhere in the city? --Maurice27 21:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, of course you do Maurice! If I remember correctly, the statue is of you brandishing a 2:3 format Valencian flag, with Proverbs 26:4–5 inscribed on the plinth! Physchim62 (talk) 23:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
"I do not sit with deceitful men, nor do I consort with hypocrites"... Whoaaaaaa, Lovely!!! --Maurice27 00:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That wasn't quite the translation I had in mind... but who cares, if you like it! I was thinking more along the lines of "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." For obvious reasons, I have placed the Catalan version (as translated by the monks of Montserrat) on the top of my talk page. Physchim62 (talk) 00:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Man... I should really go to bed now... (see [[5]]. --Maurice27 00:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh Boynamedsue (because that had to be you) some of these names were simply superb. These just blow my mind

  • A Murcian Community
  • Greater Carxester
  • Land of Murcia (I don't enjoy this one that much, but I have to admit that it is consistent with other well known examples..)
  • The Land of Some Murcians (The Rest Being in Barcelona)
  • Sisters of Murcy
  • Maurice27!!!!
  • The Murcian Countries

given the importance given to what I would define as Carxeism and the lost Catalans here in wikipedia, I would propose "Exterior Carxe" or similar...some other day we could focus on the similarly irredentist movement called How l'Alguer was lost and Where it Got Us" aaaaah!


Request for mediation[edit]

I have filed a Request for Mediation concerning the article Valencia (autonomous community) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views). The issues for which I have requested mediation are:

  • Should the header to the infobox contain the Spanish name of the region as well as the Valencian/Catalan name?
  • Should the lead section contain the comment: "Valencian (as Catalan is known in this territory)"?
  • Should the the proportions of the Valencian flag used in this article be 1:2 or 2:3?

If you feel that there are other issues which require mediation, you may add them in the "Additional issues to be mediated" section.

If you agree to formal, non-binding mediation on these issues, please sign on the RfM page. I hope that you will agree, as mediation will be impossible without your help.

Best wishes, Physchim62 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

He presentat una petició de mediació sobre l'article Valencia (autonomous community) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views). Les disputes per les quals he preguntat la mediació són:

  • Comunidad Valenciana hauria d'aparèixer en el cap de l'infobox de la mateixa manera que Comunitat Valenciana?
  • El commentari ""Valencian (as Catalan is known in this territory)" hauria d'aparèixer en la primera secció?
  • Les proporcions de la Senyera valenciana serien 1:2 o 2:3?

Si volguessis discutir altres assumptes sobre l'article, les pots afegir en la secció "Additional issues to be mediated" de la pàgina de RfM.

Si acceptes aquesta mediació formal i no-constrenyedora, et prego de firmar a la pàgina de RfM. Espero que accepteràs perquè la mediació no serà possible sense la teva ajuda.

Disculpe'm pel meu català! Physchim62 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

There seems no point in signing the request as stands. I am looking at other ways of going forward, which will probably include a request for arbitration on the infobox issue (without any wish to attack the other side) and maybe on others. I certainly didn't wish to class you as a probable vandal, my comment was meant to show that I have a certain idea of the sources of these anonymous edits and that no editor in the different disputes should be tempeted even to suggest that they come from someone else. Best wishes as always, Physchim62 (talk) 13:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
No worries on the vandal thing. I wasn't that serious anyway when I mentioned it in the first place. Thanks for the message.

Request for Mediation[edit]

Info-icon.svg A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Valencia (autonomous community).
For the Mediation Committee, ^demon[omg plz]
This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.
This message delivered: 16:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Re: someone should calm down...[edit]

Hi Mountolive. (Wow, "wikimisery" is right.) If official action is initiated against our friend you can expect my full support. His contributions are obviously biased and consistently quite petulant, disrespectful, and foolish. While his almost rote hatred of Spanish statism is understandable (if a little forced, given his age), the thoughtless zeal with which he thunders away against everything south of the Ebro has been a constant irritant (a half-dozen butchered articles testify to this, War of the Spanish Succession being a perfect example). Albrecht 20:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked for 24 hours as he blatently removed a civility warning. Thanks for you're concern about my family: enough members are there at the moment, but I may well be picking up the relay (my shift in 24h supervision) in ten days or so. Physchim62 (talk) 09:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, at least it won't rain in Capellades for the next few days....
as for blocking, well, you may have realized that I consider xx hours blocks as a children's game: actually offenders often enjoy it as a break! :D
given the nature of his continued offenses and disrespectful comments, I wish something better, faster, stronger, was initiated....there seems to be a few aggravated already, so, if you can recommend any course of action to produce a nice scolding, just let me know...
Faster doesn't exist on WP, sorry, if you want something stronger then you will have to suffer one of the several forms of WikiTorture that have been devised (most seem to be based on the PoV Inferno) until you finally manage to persuade one of the PolitBureaux to do something. I'll keep an eye on things. BTW speaking of WikiRetirement, you might like to take a look at Toniher's blog. He appears to believe that to get independence you must go through article 151... Physchim62 (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I might be interested in the wikitorture should I initiate it, Physchim? Really, I am growing weary of wikipedia (for the usual motives you may have heard already elsewhere) and I guess that, if I am to recover some faith, that must involve getting the disrespectful and arrogant editors either banned or calmed down and, as I said, I don't think that xx hours blocks do anything other than give these guys some break to rest and after come back in business as usual...
I paid a look at Toniher's blog. I don't share POVs with him, but about him it can be said that he is a respecful Catalanist user who doesn't claim to have Absolute Truth in his hands (it can't be said the same about others in that particular pack). So all my respect to him.
This said, in my opinion (this is my opinion in my talk page, may I? :), his blog shows a particular attitude with Catalanists before Valencian things: they take them here in a daytrip bus for a demonstration, they have some legitimate fun in the streets and after go back to Catalonia where they tell their friends about how picturesque the Valencian dialect can get with our different words...then they forget about the whole thing until the next demonstration and bus is put together some year after, while, in the meantime, some of them may find some spare time to bother themselves in editing a bit en:wikipedia with their perceived Valencian reality...I'm not saying this is a bad or good attitude. I am just saying that this is my perception...may I? :D

WikiProject European Microstates[edit]

Hello- I'm trying to gauge interest in starting a WikiProject for the European Microstates. I've noticed you've done some editing of Andorran content. I was wondering if you would be interested in participating in the project at all. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! matt91486 05:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

thanks for approaching me, Matt. Still, I am rather wikidisappointed these days...besides, the editing I made in Andorra was quite minor, which means that I am not strong in the topic. Mountolive

Peninsular War[edit]

Have a look at the recent Peninsular War history and this exchange (my reply). I assume I've taken the correct position? Albrecht 03:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Roman Catholicism in Albania[edit]

Hi Mountolive. I think it would be best to re-write the article completely. I also think it would be better to mostly work with several English-language sources and only add information from the German Wikipedia when that's necessary, because that information is generally not referenced. So I've started a re-write of the article: here. I think the following sources would be pretty useful in writing this article: [6], [7], and [8]. Maybe you could help me write it and then we'll move it into article namespace.--Carabinieri 14:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Bohemian Rhapsody.png[edit]

Hello, Mountolive. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:Bohemian Rhapsody.png) was found at the following location: User talk:Mountolive. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 06:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:De un país en llamas.jpg[edit]

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Non-free use disputed for Image:La ley del desierto LP cover.jpg[edit]

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Non-free use disputed for Image:La Canción de Juan Perro LP cover.jpg[edit]

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Fancy a roll in the mud of the Ebro?[edit]

I know you're sworn off Catabrawling for a bit, but things have got a bit silly at Catalonia.

If you'd pop your head round the door every now and agin to make sure the kids are playing nice, I'd sleep a lot easier.

Boynamedsue 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

aw, things tend to go a bit silly around there or that is only my perception?
still, since your comments are -against the widespread belief- the most refined I've seen to date, I will try to find some time and go there, however, you may have noticed already that some people don't like to be reverted and my tolerance threshold regarding Catalan related article owners is extremely low, which means that I won't engage in the usual "your mom" rethorics....
on the other side, you should be warned that people like us have a bad name over there, which means that whatever we say will be used against us...
but I owe you one.


I don't like Muddy Waters, but, against my better judgement, I paid a look at that article you mention and, actually, I can't see what's the deal this time...however, yes, that sentece you removed was definitely nonsensical.

Cheers lad.

I was attempting to keep the legal status of Cataloniato the legal status section, for clarity's sake. That being the deal. I get riled with the wikilawyering that is used to prevent debate there, when there are multiple non-catalanist users looking, it becomes more difficult to use mobbing to twist the article towards "Catalonia was, is and will be a sovereign nation bordered by Africa to the south and west, and Occitania to the North." mannishBoynamedsue 13:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wikilawyering by Catalanist users....that is just soooo exciting, it may be only surpassed by wikilawyering from Catalanist users who deny being so...

Request for arbitration[edit]

A request for arbitration has been filed concerning the articles Catalonia and Valencian Community. You may, if you wish, make a statement as to whether this request should be accepted or not, although the final decision rests with the Arbitration Committee. Physchim62 (talk) 16:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversial matters for the Request for arbitration[edit]

I have created a page where we can all expose our controversial matters in each of the articles filled in the request for arbitration. You are invited to contribute in it in order to explain our POVs to the comittee in a clear way. --Maurice27 13:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Good news[edit]

Delighted to hear of it. This calls for a parade. Albrecht 23:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

How to sign[edit]

Mounty, are you using this?


--Maurice27 12:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I just started now....because you have just showed me! ;)
maybe, after all, you are not sooooo bad, are you?
indeed, I came back from the States and here my keyboard doesn't have the tilde sign, that is why I was not signing properly.
thanks, mate.

--Mountolive | Talk 15:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a handy and nice little button, isn't it? --Maurice27 16:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It certainly is! --Mountolive | Talk 18:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

On Spanish keyboards, I use the tag which is just below the edit window, helpfully labelled Sign your username: for its effects see here → Physchim62 (talk) 14:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I just saw it. Thank you, too, Physchim.
am I the only one who is sick and tired of the RfArb and it hasn't even started yet? sigh! Mountolive | Talk 17:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
any ArbCom case is WikiTorture for all those involved; don't expect this one to be finished before September, if it ever gets started. Physchim62 (talk) 17:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm too occupied preventing Joanot from poisoning some articles to think about RfArbs... ;) --Maurice27 21:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
The case should be opened about midnight Spanish time tonight. ArbCom can offer more subtle remedies than I can for the ongoing edits wars over the flag, which is why I haven't intervened as an admin. Physchim62 (talk) 11:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Capellades politics[edit]

Given our recent discussion, I thought you might like this pic:

Capellades drain graffiti.jpg

I also received a leaflet from the Capellades ERC (as did all other residents) asking us, literally, "Why do you think that Esquerra lost the ajuntament?" Errm, because they ask silly questions... See more gory details at Physchim62 (talk) 16:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

hahaha, I love this "urna electoral", really!
--Mountolive | Talk 15:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC) aka "the Good person"
if I am "the good" and Maurice "the bad", the terrible question is obvious....WHO'S THE UGLY????

Does this answer your question...

The image of Physchim62 from his user page.

Hell yeah! --Mountolive | Talk 18:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Catalonia[edit]


An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Catalonia. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Catalonia/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Catalonia/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (Talk) 23:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


2.33 I am an official liberal airhead. :) Physchim62 (talk) 21:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

don't lose hope, your values should be rising :P specially if you keep working in these articles which someone defined once as Catabrawling :D.
take hope from my case: I just made the test again tonight and seems that my values are rising: 3.6 this time, but still in the same disciplined, true American category....can't wait for the next one

--Mountolive | Talk 21:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


Hi Fayssal. Mmm...I guess the "if you don't want to tag it" goes for me. No, I don't want to tag it for the succint reasons I gave in my edit summary, i.e., I think is of little use go "decorating" articles with a tag and then disappear without having engaged in any debate about the reasons of the nice tag.

Anyway, it wasn't you whot tagged it, so I am fine with it. As for the deleting facts, my apologies. I guess I thought that it was clear enough in the rest of the article that it is a quite Berber town (and, therefore, it was a Berber town). Sorry about that if you took this edit, intended as minor, as something else.

Still, now that the topic arises, I'm thinking that Arab has to be also spoken there, no? the article only mentions Spanish and Berber but I am guessing most of Berbers are bilingual in Arab, if only for religious reasons. --Mountolive | Talk 08:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem Mountolive. I hadn't checked who deleted those facts and i didn't even paid attention that you made an edit earlier because i did it in a rush.
Yes, i agree w/ you in that we disagree w/ people tagging articles w/o discussing their concerns at talk pages.
Apart from Spanish, sure, it is Berber (Tarifit) that is spoken in Melilla. Muslim natives in Melilla would only speak Arabic if they are talking to an Arab. Most Berbers speak Berber between eachother. Apart from using Arabic for prayers and reciting the Qur'an, i'd be surprised to hear a Melillan speaking Arabic in Melilla.
In Ceuta, yes, Moroccan Arabic or Darija is spoken more than Berber. I know that Muslim people natives of Ceuta are Jebala (maybe a mix of ethnic berbers and arabs though it is still not resolved scientifically yet) and therefore i believe that those natives speak a kind of Arberbspanish! I am not a linguistic researcher, so don't take my arberbspanish sstuff as something accurate ;) i.e. Fatima mchat aand su abuela l dcher --> Fatima se fue a ver a su abuela en el pueblo where "mchat" is Arabic, "abuela" is Spanish and "dcher" is Berber. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 10:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Catalonia closed[edit]

The above arbitration case has closed. Maurice27 is banned for 30 days, and the parties to the underlying content disputes are encouraged to continue with the normal consensus-building process to produce high-quality articles. For the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 02:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


Hi Fayssal. Thanks for having read at least my previous summary edit. I'm ok with your proposal Mountolive | Talk 21:37, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Mountolive. I made sure i was not reverting :) -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 21:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I read your summary and understood it perfectly well, but the EU does not alter the fact that indivudual governments have their own classifications. In the absence of a source for the French government's stance, I've removed it accordingly. One Night In Hackney303 23:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
It would be needed that you elaborated a bit more "own classifications" in this regard. On the other side, would you please point out the source for the Spanish government's stance in the matter stated in the article? at least per the headings of the cites, none seems to refer to the Spanish government "own classification" (the ley de partidos is not about terrorism).
I'm not so sure why you guys prefer to detach Spanish and French from the global EU stance against terrorism. As I said, Spain (nor France) hasn't special laws banning ETA's terrorism, just terrorism in general and then it happens that ETA's activities fall in this category according to the Spanish, French and EU legislation. I'm not sure if this detachment by country from the more general EU is worth it, but if you want to detail EU members for the sake of better insight, then I guess it is ok with me, but as long as both most concerned countries are mentioned, not only one of them, and so I agree with Fayssal's later version.
One Night, automatically reverting without even bothering to mention briefly the reasons provided in the previous summary indeed looked like you didn't notice it, or dispise them as worhtless. It's good to hear that you did notice them, but best would be that, next time, please elaborate a bit more before reverting: this is wikipedia, it's by definition open to new contributions as long as they are reasoned. In other words, as a work in progress -that's what this is- you can not claim to be always right. If you look at Fayssal's record, you will notice that he usually (probably, always) has a point. Mountolive | Talk 09:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Radio Futura 1984.jpg[edit]

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un favor[edit]

Mountolive, could you do me a favour? There are people who dislike the word "dhimmi" in the Muslim Iberia section of the Spain article. But a history of Spain under Islam without mentioning "dhimmi" is like a history of South Africa without mentioning "apartheid" - giving a very distorted picture. Yet the same people are quick to point to the forced conversions/expulsions of Muslims. Could you (only very) occasionally glance at the article to make sure it stays? Thanks Provocateur 04:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Globalize tag at Catalan countries[edit]

Here we go again... Casaforra at his worst fighting belly up against a proven reality... BTW, nice to see you back! Thks for the quoting correction. I hope I will soon add more from you. Au, vinga, que vagi be--Maurice27 (talk) 00:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Libellous additions (not you, of course!)[edit]

You've caught me online, I'm working on it. Physchim62 (talk) 21:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the IP address isn't static, it's a UK dial-up which assins a new IP at every connection. I have range blocked for one week, which is really the maximum that I can do for such a large range, and I'm looking into other possible actions. If you see any other similar edits, please report them to WP:AIV, where they will be dealt with quicker than I can. Feel free to link to this message if other admins want background. Best wishes. Physchim62 (talk) 14:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Phsychim62's POV[edit]

Hi Mountolive,

em sembla que entens el català, i com que ara són les nou del matí i encara no he dormit, estic massa cansat per pensar en anglès (he estat ja pensant en alemany les darreres vuit hores i no dono per més, disculpa).

Ja saps que estic tan cansat com tu de tots els problemes relacionats amb els articles sobre temes entorn el català. Encara que potser per tu el problema és que hi ha massa usuaris torracollons que defensen un PDV (POV ;) ) diferent del teu, i en canvi per mi el cansament ve bàsicament degut a un nom, i ja sabem tots les seves lletres.

Feia temps potser que et devia aquest text. I és que et volia dir que malgrat que tenim postures diferenciades (no voldria tampoc qualificar-les d'oposades), és un plaer argumentar i discutir amb tu com millorar els articles, com poder trobar punts en comú i com, a partir d'aquests, explotar-los per tal de trobar una redacció que ens convenci a tots dos. Em sembla que en menor o major mesura, en alguns casos ho hem arribat a aconseguir.

Tanmateix, hi ha certs usuaris (comença amb la M i acaba amb un 7) que no estan disposats a trobar un punt en comú. Que no estan disposats a assumir que potser el seu punt de vista no són les escriptures escrites directament per la mà de Déu i que qualsevol altra cosa ha d'ésser cremada. No. Jo quan he discutit amb tu, amb en BNS o amb qualsevol altre, he intentat entendre els vostres arguments i he procurat que, amb les meves respostes, poguéssim establir un punt de partida a partir del qual poder treballar. Sempre he intentat defensar el meu POV, és clar, però he intentar també incloure l'altre (el vostre?) perquè entenc que cap article serà complet si no inclou el meu i el teu punt de vista.

És bàsicament per això que estic fart fins al vòmit d'aguantar els comentaris insulsos, despectius, poc creatius, menyspreables, irrespectuosos, intolerables, degradants i denigrants amb els que en Maurice ens regala. No, jo estic disposat a argumentar, no pas a sentir-me vexat fins a l'insult. Així doncs, no vull discutir més amb ell i només ho faig en casos extrems. No vull sentir-me insultat gratuïtament. I és una llàstima per tots aquells que defenseu un POV similar al seu (no dic pas que sigui igual), perquè malauradament aquest per extensió us llasta a tots.

Crec sincerament de tot cor que fins que el seu comportament no canviï, no serà possible trobar un punt constructiu en qualsevol d'aquests articles. I ho saps prou bé perquè ja ens hem trobat tu i jo en una discussió en la qual, després d'haver arribat a un consens a base d'hores de literatura i discussió, ha arribat ell i ho ha fotut tot enlaire a base de reversions i insults.

I el més greu de tot no és el seu comportament pròpiament en si, sinó també la reacció dels altres "amics" (permet-me aquesta expressió, espero que entenguis a què em refereixo) que no l'han censurat ni li han donat un toc d'atenció. Justament per això, com que em sembla haver vist si mal no recordo, que alguna vegada tu li has fet algun toc d'atenció per les seves maneres encara que, ai las!, no pels seus continguts, sento per tu un respecte que, tornant al tema que ha obert la conversa, no sento pels altres coreligionaris que davant dels estirabots evidents amb els qual en Maurice27 ha sortit, mai li han donat un toc d'alerta. I aquí tornem al cap del camí amb en Phsychim62. És cert que en Phsychim62 un temps ençà (malauradament fa ja quasi 65 milions d'anys, quan el gran meteorit encara no havia impactat sobre la superfície terrestre) semblava realment objectiu i, quan veia que en Maurice27 començava a treure els seus sucs gàstrics, l'avisava i quan fou necessari, una vegada el va blocar i tot. Però he de dir que el concepte d'aquest administrador es va anar devaluant poc a poc als meus ulls, i no pas per la seva ideologia (tal com t'he dit tu ets un exemple que respecte i ideologia no han d'anar lligats) sinó pels seus arguments cada vegada més parcials. I si aquesta posició la pren un usuari, doncs perfecte, en té tot el dret. Ara bé, quan és un administrador qui pren posició i (i aquí ve el problema) pren accions administratives com ara blocar usuaris que no comparteixen el seu POV o demana obrir un procés d'arbitratge surrealista, per l'actuació d'uns quants usuaris (no és necessari que donis la teva opinió públcament, però espero que en la teva intimitat reconeguis que vas posar uns ulls com unes taronges quan en Phsychim62 va obrir un arbitratge en contra d'en Dúnadan i en Casaforra que, si bé poden tenir unes postures molt fermes, mai se'ls podrà negar que han usat en escreix les pàgines de discussió i que, alhora, mai se'ls ha llegit de la seva boca cap paraula groixuda; i en canvi el nostre amic administrador es va oblidar d'esmentar les vel·leitats amb les quals ens havia esquitxat dia sí dia també en Mairice27), és aleshores i només aleshores que m'indigno de debò.

Dit això, crec sincerament que hui en dia, en Phsychim62 comparteix tant el punt de vista d'en Maurice com jo comparteixo el d'en Dúnadan, per exemple (això vol dir: és obvi que si hem de fer bàndols, tots dos estem al mateix costat, però per exemple a la darrera discussió a Catalan Countries, hem pres opinions diverses i àdhuc contradictòries i això no serviria a cap de vosaltres per dir que no compartim el mateix POV). Que si en un passat en Phsychim62 no coneixia el pa que es donava en els temes relacionats amb el català, el temps i l'entorn el van situar i malauradament fa molt de temps que no el veig enfrontant-se amb en Maurice. És això cert? no ho és? no ho sé. Si vols canvio la frase per "un POV freqüentment similar al d'en Maurice", si així ho trobes més raonable. Espero que ja sàpigues que assumeixo que em puc equivocar i si aquesta redacció l'has de trobar més justa, no se'm cauran els anells per tal de canviar-ho. Tens cap altra proposta per modificar-ho? endavant! Però crec sincerament que les darreres actuacions que han guiat en Phsychim62 com a administrador en aquest tema (i procuro dir-ho objectivament i procurant ignorar "de quin bàndol" estan els usuaris implicats, encara que segurament no m'és el 100% possible), han estat parcials, massa parcials. Creus sincerament que és lògic que en Casaforra se'l bloqui per una setmana i en Maurice per 3 minuts quan han caigut tots dos en la mateixa trampa? No, no cal que em responguis. Però jo personalment m'avergonyiria (i de fet em provoca vergonya aliena) la posició que ha pres aquí en Phsychim62 justament després d'haver-li respost a en Dúnadan que en cas d'un arbitratge respecte un tema relacionat amb Catalunya, ell se'n mantindria al marge. Vergonya, vergonya i vergonya. Sincerament, miro els fets, i no se m'acut cap altra motivació per part d'en Phsychim62 que no sigui una rancúnia profunda pel resultat de l'arbitratge. On s'ha vist que per fer 4 reversions, la primera vegada es castigui amb 1 setmana? De veres, me'n faig creus. Flipo en do sostingut menor i encara em salten els ulls de les conques. Ho trobo irreal.

En fi, lamento que per comentar-te el que et podria haver respost en una línia ("sí, en Phsychim62 fa un temps semblava que no compartia POV amb ningú, però sembla que ja d'un bon temps ençà s'ha posicionat a la vostra banda, i corregeix-me si m'equivoco") t'hagi fet tota aquesta parrafada, però em sembla que en part ho necessitava. Estic molt cremat, molt. I tal com et dic, només que les formes canviessin, segur que tot seria diferent.

Desperta! Espero que no t'hagis adormit gaire. Una salutació i, de veritat, si creus que després del que t'he explicat sobre com veig la posició d'en Phsychim62 creus que la meva frase encara no fa justícia, i la que t'he proposat tampoc creus que s'adeqüi, fes-me una proposta d'allò que tu consideraries més escaient i molt probablement estiguem els dos d'acord. Atentament, --Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 09:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

PS. Responent-te a la teva pàgina d'usuari, perdona si no tinc més sex(life), però la meva xicota és a 1.500 kms i em sembla que no li semblaria gaire bé que dediqués el meu temps lliure a satisfer els meus impulsos animals; així que malauradament per vosaltres, he de dedicar el meu temps a respondre-us a la Wikipedia ;-)

En primer lloc m'hauries d'explicar com és això de que "són les nou del matí, encara no he dormit i he estat pensant en alemany les darreres huit hores" vol dir-se que has estat demanant "trinken" tota la nit? :D vius a Alemanya? o potser a Majorca? :D
Després, estàs totalment perdonat si no tens més sex(life) :D Primer perque eixe comentari no està adreçat a tu (més aïna a fulanos tipo Benimerin i altres que no vull ni mencionar, de fet crec que ni els coneixes, així que millor per tu), segón perque la meua xicona també la tinc lluny en estos moments (i, com bé dius, no és qüestió de donar curs als meus impulsos animals, aleshores he de clavar-me en polèmiques xorres a wikipedia en comptes d'anar "tocant culs pels puestos", com diria el meu iaio :D) Així que, si em veus tot el dia actiu a wikipedia, mal rotllo: vol dir que no estic seguint els savis consells del meu iaio i això no és bo ;)
Doncs sí, a mi també m'agrada treballar amb tu, potser tens raó, els nostres POVs no són realment oposats, simplement diferents i és per això que podem arribar a compromissos. De fet, tot i que els nostres "impulsos animals" també voldrien que editàrem a plaer, si ho pense, les poques voltes que els altres editors ens han permés arribar a una versió de compromís (i això, dintre dels editors del teu "project", m'ha passat només amb tú i amb Toniher) quasi em sent millor que si li done "barra lliure" a les meues idees.
No m'he adormit, el teu post és interessant i ho he seguit atentament: jo també estic cremat, tio. Tu ets l'únic del Catalan speaking countries project amb el que puc parlar, a voltes (quan té el dia bo ;) Casaforra també ha sigut tractable, tot i que últimament està fent uns sumaris prou provocatius, no? això de "no discussion, no tag" i tal sona perillosament a Maurice :D i crec que és per això que l'han bloquejat. A mi em dóna que alguns administradors, en els seus canals privats, estant per adoptar una política de "tolerància zero" contra els edit wars. I no em sembla mal, tot i que això no vol dir que pense que el blockage de Casaforra siga mereixcut.
Sincerament, no m'agraden els "projects" basats en països (catalans o no :P). Tinc la sensació de que, tot i ser creats amb la millor de les intencions, en casos com el del "Catalan speaking", eixos projectes prompte esdevenen brigades militars centrades en temes polítics/polèmics i això és disfuncional.
En este sentit he de dir que no hi ha cap wikiproject creat ad hoc per "tranquilitzar" el de "Catalan speaking territories" i això, al menys, els hi treu als editors que no hi estiguen d'acord amb els editors del "Catalan speaking" project l'ombra de la sospita de estar actuant com un bloc monolític. I eixa sensació de que allà hi esteu actuant com un bloc, no és, com a mínim, massa estètica, per posar-ho "fino" trobes?
En eixe sentit, jo no conec eixos "amics" que m'atribueixes ¿? Si penses en Maurice, bé, ell i jo freqüentment coincidim, però, per exemple, no estem necessariament coincidint en "Catalan Countries" tret de lo del "Catalan sea". L'unic editor al que em sumaria sense ni tan sols llegir el seu post és BNS, però el muy xxxxx se n'ha anat i m'ha deixat soles! :D
En fi, ja sé que en això no estàs d'acord, però també he de dir que, sovint, Maurice té, si no raó (no sempre hem de tindre raó, ni ell, ni jo, ni ningú) almenys les seues motivacions són perfectament respectables. Però és obvi que les formes no acompanyen. De fet, si utilitzara la seua inteligència per "refinar" els seus comentaris, en trauria més rendiments aquí a wikipedia, o això pense jo (tot i que no hi estigues d'acord amb ell, no em pots dir que el tio és un fet, a mi almenys m'ha tornat a sorprendre aquí amb un nivell de Català més que acceptable per no haver naixcut allà, no? ;)
Però l'home prefereix un altre estil i ja es major per decidir el que vol. Jo preferiria que fóra un altre estil, perque tindria un "amic" en el que confiar, però bueno....En quant a això que dius que el pitjor no és el seu estil, si no que no haja estat censurat pels seus "amics", home, "els seus amics" et podràn dir el mateix al respecte d'eixos bessons homocigotics coneguts com Joanot/Benimerin i "els seus" (dels bessons) "amics", no? ;) Quan li deien Joanot, era un sorrut de cuidado, pero quan es va transformar en Benimerin ja va començar a derrapar a saco. I ningú al seu "project" (que jo sàpiga) li ha dit "tio, calma't, perque a lo millor no tens raó". I això que ell és part d'un project, mentre que Maurice no és part de cap (bueno, n'és, però els seus companys de projects no editen en estos articles, crec).
Però, hey, tot això és secundari. Millor vaig al tema o la meua talk page esdevindrà un party line de retrets i no m'abelleix gens ni miqueta.
El tema és lo del Senyor Physchim. Doncs, sí, jo trobe "freqüentment similar" una redacció més acurada, però, escolta, jo no sóc qui t'ha de dir com ho veus tu. De fet, jo ni tan sols diria que Maurice i Physchim coincideixen en POV, perque continue pensant que Physchim no en té un POV definit, però això és una altra història i sé que no hi estàs d'acord amb esta última part.
Aleshores, si vols canviar eixa frase que ha encetat esta discussió, l'única que la justifica, jo pense que seria més just i em donaria motius per respectarte encara més, però si no, com t'he dit, jo no sóc qui per dir-te com has d'expressar els teus pensaments. Ja et respecte, així que no és necessari que ho faces si no t'abelleix.
En fi, "ahí queda eso". Per favor, demane que no s'escriga aquí més sobre Maurice o el sursum corda. Em sentiré lliure per eliminar qualsevol post que no tracte sobre el tema Physchim/ fet, fins i tot este tema realment no pertany en esta pàgina.
The party line is officially closed :D
Mountolive | Return fire 19:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Perdó per interrompre, però tu mateix l'has dit... Estàs massa cremat per a veure bé. T'has ofuscat en la teva versió i, com els rucs, no veus als costats. Dir que Physchim62 i jo compartim un mateix equip és una sobirana ximpleria. No serà més aviat que realment, al conèixer-nos, les meves maneres van ser lo primer que li cridó l'atenció i per aquesta mateixa raó ens enfrontem però va canviar d'opinió sobre la vostra suposada neutralitat i la vostra manera d'entendre la wikipedia? No serà això?
Per cert, la teva obsessió per anomenar-me una vegada trás altra constantment en totes i cadascuna de les teves aportacions comença a ser pesada. Xtv, olvidamé! Sal un poc al carrer que et doni l'aire un poc. Si la teva noia es massa lluny, hi ha altres maneres de "relaxar-se". Viu la teva vida i deixa tranquils als altres. Queixes, queixes i més queixes... Resultes pesat! Xtv, com ja li vaig dir a Casaforra... Si et pica, rascate!
Perdoname Mountolive per utilitzar la teva pàgina, però és que lo de Xtv aquests dos últims dies ja és de jusgado. --Maurice27 12:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Memorandum of understanding[edit]

Hi, I invite you to read this and participate if willing. Cheers, --Maurice27 21:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Ley de Partidos[edit]

Talk:Ley de Partidos#Translation. --Error (talk) 00:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

what about
"preventing a political party from attacking the democratic freedoms regime in a recurrent and seriously compromising way by justifying racism, xenophobia or by offering political support to violence and terrorist groups activities".


Hi Fayssal. I saw by chance that you are involved in one of those elections to become a Wikipedia Mandarin ;) Do I have suffrage or this vote is limited to similar Mandarins only ;)? I ask because I see under some votes the note "dont have suffrage". If so, I would like to cast my vote. Mountolive | J'espère que tu t'es lavé les mains avant de me toucher 10:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that Mountolive. I appreciate it. Yes, you are eligible as per Roger below. A Mandarin? That exotic bird? :)) -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 13:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to butt in here but you have suffrage. The requirement is 150 mainspace edits prior to [[1 November]. You've made nearly 2,500 so you easily qualify. (Love the talk link in your sig. Mine would be J'espère que tu t'es lavé les mains après de me toucher :) --ROGER DAVIES talk 10:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Yep. J'aime ça aussi :) -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 13:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Hehehe, après de me toucher is even better ;)
No, the other Mandarin ;)
Thanks, guys.Mountolive | J'espère que tu t'es lavé les mains avant de me toucher 17:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Such a lovely place...[edit]

Thanks for the welcome back, sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Good to see mozza back as well.

I think the breather has done us all good. :-)

Boynamedsue (talk) 18:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I hope you are contributing often from now on. Since my friend Dúnadan is tracking me lately, sniffing on the articles I edit and then pissing on top (he's slightly grumpy, therefore I hope he gets the metaphore, but not wrong, for he is probably watching in here...hi there! :) Therefore, I guess you should know that the party is much more lively at "Catalan Countries" lately, it's quite fancy there indeed ;)
Yes, the breather was needed but I believe I may be once again in need of fresh air, that is why I salute your second coming. You are very much missed indeed. • Mountolive J'espère que tu t'es lavé les mains avant de me toucher 12:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Mountolive, Elmo says thanks (PPCC comment). Beware becoming Mountburned (I need fresh air too... fuckin vivacissimo tempo). BNS: Don Juan Tenorio said que el matrimonio es como una ciudad amurallada: los de dentro quieren salir y los de fuera quieren entrar ;) Congatulations.
Elmo is going to bed: "...At night I can't sleep, I toss and turn / Espardenyes in the dark, visions of articles bein burned..." Such a lovely place... --Call me Elmo Sesame Street 01:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


I think not. The block was for one week and it already expired. I am not blocked neither and as far as I know no actions have been taken against Maurice. Perhaps Physchim62 will be blocked soon? (Joke ;-), I hope not). --Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 11:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for your message. Sorry, I'm without internet connection at home right now and I'm at a library so don't have that much time to study the rather lively debate on the talk page. Looking at the current version of the page I see the classification has been dropped entirely, which I don't agree with. I'm not overly keen on the third paragraph, and the fourth could do with being more neutrally phrased, eg. "ETA has killed 900 people...." rather than the loaded term "murdered". I was in favour of that paragraph being added there in some form due to the fact that it explains why they are classed as a terrorist organisation. On a related note, you might like to see the BBC's explanation about "Why aren't Eta 'terrorists'?". One Night In Hackney303 14:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

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