User talk:NE Ent

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Last word: Lips Are Movin (talk).

Doubly so[edit]

In light of this [1] as a result of this [2], it would seem I am damned if I do as well as damned if I don't. Of course, there was nothing snide in what I said. My comments were directed only at you and quite sincere. -- WV 03:34, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. If a may offer a bit of advice, at this point it would be best to ignore the personal comments on both the article talk and ANI. In fact, I wouldn't contribute at all to the thread unless a new contributor asks you a specific question. NE Ent 03:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the excellent advice. Glad to say that was already my plan. -- WV 03:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
One thing, though. Core has just told a whopper of a lie at the AN/I thread. "We still have WV opposing the passage concerning Myerson's experiences with anti-Semitism, partly because we don't know that the "No Jews" signs she saw were directed at her! I'm serious." That's patently untrue. That issue was dealt with days ago when I rewrote the poorly written content regarding "No Jews" signs, expanded it to be more specific, and added a relevant reference (which was missing previously). These types of claims from my detractors at the thread that have been consistent misrepresentations or just plain untrue are being left unchallenged. I won't respond to the comment because, frankly, I've seen baiting happening with this all day. But it does rankle me that they are getting away with complete falsehoods that continue to drag my name and reputation in the mud. -- WV 03:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
A couple things: first of all, be very reluctant to use "lie" to describe another editors' statement. Per Wiktionary lie is an intentional falsehood, which requires knowing the mind of another. Simply because someone is mistaken or wrong doesn't mean they're lying. Secondly, the primary goal of anyone named in an ANI thread should be to get out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Lacking a clear consensus, the way that usually happens is the archivebot. "Defending" yourself just resets the archive clock and gives other editors another opportunity to repeat their statement in rebuttal. Don't worry about stuff folks are saying there: no veteran volunteer believes anything not backed by diffs. If no sanctions have come forth after a five day ANI thread, they're unlikely to unless the editor provides justification for them by behaving poorly. Let the others have the last word and go about your business.
For all who have commented here today, I'll note the "old school" wiki rule for article pages is documented at WP:FOC: Focus on article content during discussions, not on editor conduct; comment on content, not the contributor. If you find yourself commenting about another editor on an article talk page, you're doing the wrong thing and not helping reach consensus. If you simply must comment about another editor, start with their talk page. Note also that if you have the numbers (consensus) on your side you're not required to continue discussion until everyone agrees with you; sometimes the answer is simply to agree to disagree and go with the majority viewpoint. (Naturally soliciting wider participation via WP:RFC or an appropriate noticeboard is always a valid option). Finally, try to keep the big picture; Ms. Myerson, while obviously notable, had faded from the public eye long ago, there wasn't any particular urgency to get the article perfect instantly. NE Ent 02:39, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Advice, please[edit]

I'm at a loss as to how I should proceed in regard to an escalating matter.

Both users, Lips Are Movin and MaranoFan, are increasingly exhibiting ownership behavior, are intent on continuing to engage in edit warring behavior (even if they don't get to 3RR), and have been alternating and escalating harassment at my talk page.

  • All of the articles associated with the article subject Meghan Trainor that I have been editing are where this has been happening for days. I edit at any of the articles, they find reasons to revert - whether they are valid reasons or not.
  • You've seen and are aware of what they've been saying about me at AN/I, so I won't rehash it here, but coupled with the talk page harassment I've been receiving from them, it's a lot of personal attacks directed at me. The talk pages of each say about the same thing and the theme is generally how to get rid of me with hopes of a block or topic ban.
  • Absent of the topic ban they so desperately seem to want, it seems that their strategy has now turned to harassing me at my talk page by leaving bogus and inappropriate warnings there. The userspace harassment bothers me the most because it's more personal. And it's been going on for days.
  • Editing the Trainor related articles is a frustrating nightmare because of them continually reverting out what I've done at those articles. Mind you, they don't revert what other editors put in or remove, indeed, they are now making of point of going to those editors' talk pages and giving them barnstars with comments added to them designed to irritate me.
  • Their latest "tune" that they are singing to anyone who will listen is for me to be indefinitely topic banned. See this as the latest in a string of many times they have said the same thing: [9].

All of this together is the kind of crap that makes Wikipedia suck, and it really doesn't have to be that way, does it? It would seem so, since no one is taking notice, and if they are taking notice, they are ignoring it. Yes, I could go to other articles to edit, but why should they be allowed to chase off someone -- anyone -- who is truly working to improve those articles?

Like I said, I'm at a loss and really don't know which way to go at this point. It seems to me that reporting them will do little to nothing in dissuading them and they've become pros at looking for loopholes in policy and wikilawyering until those trying to discuss with them give up and walk away due to the IDHT brickwall they inevitably build. As in the past, I respect your opinion, and would really appreciate getting one in this case. Thanks, -- WV 07:49, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Note I decided to reopen the 3RR report that was recently closed by Ed Johnston here [10]. -- WV 08:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
@Winkelvi: Why are you recepting us as against you? You are a great contributor, your barnstars say so. We like you and it would be horrible to lose you. It is just that you need to be more neutral. Also, I can give barnstars to whoever I want. Marano fan 08:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, Wikipedia-the-encyclopedia is pretty awesome and Wikipedia:: the namespace does, in fact, pretty much suck. See WP:CGTW, number 19, and WP:OWB#16 and WP:OWB#23. Specific recommendations:
  • The ANI thread is running out of stream. Anything meaningful on ANI usually happens in the first day or two. 11 days in, nothing is likely to happen unless you provide a reason for it to. Avoiding it is good.
  • Best not to worry about what others are doing with their talk pages. What you don't read can't bother you. See WP:Other duck.
  • Unless you can bring additional editors in somehow, it's hard to deal with a group of mildly POVing pushing editors. Unfortunately I don't have wikitime to help very much. Probably easiest to walk away and find more productive use of your time. The most important thing to remember about Wikipedia is it's a hobby, and you should be having fun. If you're not having fun, it's not worth it. NE Ent 18:35, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice, NE Ent. It's spot on, so no difficulty on my part taking it to heart. That was not intended to rhyme, but I like that it did :) I am now being harassed on my talk page by the two editors named above as well as a new one. Happy happy, joy joy! Have a great day. I'm going to keep monitoring the drama, I may even pop some popcorn to go along with the cinematic nature of it all, and will probably do some recent changes patrol while watching the AFC and NFC games. Have a great day. And thanks again. Sincerely. -- WV 18:45, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi, Ent. I'm sorry I expressed myself so harshly when you posted on my page. I was a little shocked, and also concerned to reassure the unfortunate applicant that there was support for them, that they weren't alone. Free-Range Frog put it better than I did. Of course I understand that you were trying to help (and not for instance to make the user give up and leave Wikipedia..). You'll be glad to hear that the impulsive newbie has apologized.[11] (He remains clueless as to what can and can't go into articles,[12] but that's something else.) Bishonen | talk 21:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC).

I'm reminded of the child rhyme: Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver, and the other gold. It's a hard thing, balancing respecting the efforts of our existing contributors while trying to keep the welcome mat out for new blood. Obviously my phrasing was awkward -- more suited to a chaotic noticeboard than your talk page. Clearly more empathy and less wiki tactics would have been appropriate. As you say, my intent wasn't to discourage anyone, and I'm sorry I made it seem that way. NE Ent 10:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I have absolutely no doubt....[edit]

...that you "don't take Wikipedia personally", considering that you've never contributed enough to the encyclopedia to feel any kind of personal stake in the project, unlike those of us who do the grunt work of research, writing and updating articles. I look forward to the day when free riders such as yourself are seen by the community as exactly what you are, a drain on our resources and an unnecessary burden that we'd be better off getting rid of. BMK (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

From User:Beyond My Ken/thoughts#A personal prescription for surviving Wikipedia: "14. Most importantly: Stay uninvolved, learn not to care." Ihardlythinkso (talk) 03:25, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


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Content review[edit]

How would you like to do a content review, per this request? [13] Jehochman Talk 17:28, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

If I get a solid block of wiki time I'll take a look -- unlikely to happen for days, at best. NE Ent 23:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


It was tongue-in-cheek: Abusive Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:07, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

WP:WAAA. Whinge About Abusive Administrators. NE Ent, I've decided that I like you. Anybody as troll-proof as you are deserves a great deal of respect. Jehochman Talk 15:17, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
I wasn't aware I had been trolled recently. NE Ent 02:46, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
See what I mean? That's an excellent response! Jehochman Talk 03:05, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah. Thanks. Mentioned you (Bbb23) here, by the way. NE Ent 15:37, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


I'm not sure if it was your intention, but you reverted a number of other correct edits I made with your revert at All About That Bass, "peacocking" aside. The sources in the article call it "a slew of viral videos". There is definitely a big difference between "slew" and "few". How does "a number of" sound, the sources also state "championed" - big difference between that and "tagged" - do you have a better word perhaps? and I ask kindly that you revert or edit back the number of other changes I made to the article which you ignored during your revert. "We generally don't archive 3 day old discussions" - only one of those conversations was 3 days old, it would be helpful if you could inform me after what period may they be archived then. Thanks. - Lips are movin 12:27, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Look. I get it. I'm not much into pop radio anymore but when I heard All About the Bass coming home one day I have to go online and figure out who the singer was (and checked out the video) Trainor is a pretty awesome talent and you think Wikipedia should reflect that. Which is fine and appropriate, but it needs to be done the Wikipedia way, which is "encyclopedic" which means very neutral, factual language, and an appropriate length. For example, I agree "few" doesn't match the "slew of" of the source, "many" would be a good encyclopedic word there.
You've actually done all the hard stuff, which is finding and formatting the references. Trainor won't be any less awesome because of what we write, right? Additionally, our role as an encyclopedia is to be a starting point of knowledge, not the end all and be all. Folks wanting to learn more about her will follow the links in the references to get more details. Other the other hand, if the article gets too long and has too much detail folks won't even read it all, they'll just skim and move on.
I've set up an archive bot (just copied the setup from [[Talk::Horse]]). Let the bot worrying archiving. As far as the edits, I agree most of what you had was fine, but it's not really my responsibility to sort all that out. I suggest adding your edits in smaller chunks so if another editor disagrees with a particular piece they can selectively revert / edit that. NE Ent 23:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Honestly, I am tired of being accused by the same users of only contributing fan and non-neutral prose and peacocking to Trainor articles. Do you have any idea what kind of mess All About That Bass, Meghan Trainor etc were before I got them? A few unintended words that appear as WP:PEACOCK do not make my entire effort to Wikipedia completely "non-encyclopedic". You could have merely just changed the two words you had a problem with in your revert instead of reverting everything rather ignorantly, it's hardly the big problem you're making it out to be. - Lips are movin 06:44, 26 January 2015 (UTC)



Hafspajen (talk) 19:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! NE Ent 23:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

question about ds[edit]

I'm confused about discretionary sanctions regarding GGTS. Recently an editor was sanctioned at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement for comments made on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention. But the Discretionary sanctions notice you sent out says in part:

"The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the Gender gap task force, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here."

So does this action at WARE mean those standards apply to comments made everywhere on wikipedia, even on the talk pages of editors and on the talk pages of other wiki projects and not just at the GGTF project pages?

Thanks, EChastain (talk) 21:31, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I wish I could give you a definitive answer but these things are kind of gray. NE Ent 23:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


(watching) interested also, in this case and my own, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes/Proposed_decision#Gerda_Arendt_restricted_.282.29 On a 6-4 vote. Not one of my favorite arbcom decisions. I'd say if you want an infobox in an article you post it the article talk page. Have you tried that? NE Ent 00:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
yes, Carmen, taken, Handel, taken, Bach: would be hilarious if we hadn't lost GFHandel over it. - Did you know that nobody ever gave me a diff of my wrongdoing? Suggesting on the talk of Wagner was likely my worst crime. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
ps: right after the decision, I posted a suggestion for an infobox on the talk of one of Andy's articles, and an arb copied it to the article, - I still smile thinking of that ;) - The war is over, only some people still seem not to like that --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 25 January[edit]

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