User talk:NatGertler

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FOR EARLIER POSTS see Archive 1, Archive 2


New Page Patrol survey[edit]

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New page patrol – Survey Invitation


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Holiday Cheer[edit]

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Michael Q. Schmidt talkback is wishing you Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings. - MQS

October 2013[edit]

Editing glitch[edit]

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Hello, NatGertler. You have new messages at Scwlong's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Galerie Gmurzynska[edit]

Regarding the edit war with Art&Design3000, "independent researchers" do not copy material from commercial websites (the gallery's own) and present it as neutral, reference material. I refer you to your original flagging of this material, where you identify it as boastful and self-serving. There is a history of legal disputes involving this gallery, including a huge VAT case that is ongoing. These have been referenced in an objective way, citing independent secondary sources. Examples of "unproven and subjective" material are not given; all of the stories mentioned are cited in multiple published sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grammophone (talkcontribs) 12:06, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Regarding your message, on the contrary I re-edited the Gmurzynska page in a way that takes account of administrators' remarks, including your own suggestion of a sub-heading 'Investigation'. Galerie Gmurzynska attempted to restore its self-promotional version using a new IP address, presumably to conceal the source of the edit, to which I alerted Bbb23. His response you can see on the history: (cur | prev) 22:12, 20 October 2014‎ Bbb23 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (7,912 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Protected Galerie Gmurzynska: Edit warring / content dispute: resumption by IPs (same person, different addresses) ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (expires 22:12, 20 November 2014 (UTC)) [Move=Allow only autoconfirmed use) (undo | thank)

[COPY OF MESSAGE SENT TO Bbb23's TALK PAGE] A third IP address is being used in order to suppress material this organization wishes to keep hidden - Andemw3 (see previous edits and undos of the reliably referenced material by this username). The latest edit is, to my mind, simply a continuation of the edit warring in this regard. Spurious grounds have been found for removing most of the (to them) undesirable material by misusing the WP:V and WP:BLP tags. Other material has simply been deleted without explanation.

The referencing by Art&Design3000 (and his other identities) is also highly dubious. The references to the promotional material don't seem to have any actual connection to Galerie Gmuzynska (if they do, this should be clearly identified) - see footnote 3, for example, a highly dubious claim and link to an article in which I cannot see any mention of the exhibition in question. There are also instances of willful misquotation of the published sources. For example, 'Antonina [Gmurzynska]appears to have sought out the artists' families in Russia and became adept at sneaking art out of the country' has been changed to 'Antonina 'sought out the artists' families in Russia and was moving this art out of the country, to Europe', so that a documented case of smuggling sounds like an act of charity.

As such, I am reediting again in what I believe to be a balanced way that reflects the published sources properly. I welcome Administrators' views on what I have written here and am happy to engage with them in producing a satisfactory version. I have not engaged in Talk with Art&Design3000 and his aliases because I do not see that as having any potential to produce an accurate version of the gallery history, given the editing methods it uses.

Revision of the page: Delete Skype History (software)[edit]

SusunW[edit]

Thanks for your encouragement. I have no bloody idea if you will get this message or even how to reply to you. I was trying to find out information on the decade old Cherokee Nation same-sex marriage case and the entry was so scant on Same-sex marriage under United States tribal jurisdictions that I updated it. Then I realized that a lot of other info was in need of updating, so I forged ahead.

Same thing happened in August when I was seeking information on Recognition of same-sex unions in Mexico. Took me a while to figure out how to update the page (most of the entries since August are mine as 187.252.94.51 is also me. I don't really know how to use Wikipedia at all. Attempts to be adopted or join the LGBT group are frustrating, as I cannot figure out how to do it. I research for a living, so documentation is my strong suit. But this format is a bit unwieldy. If you have any suggestions on how I can better use the program, help would be appreciated. SusunW (talk) 04:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)SusunW

Okay, I'm confused. First off, it looks like I am having a conversation with myself. Is there not a way that both of our messages appear on the same page?

As a researcher, a primary source is technically much more valuable than a secondary source, at least from a legal perspective. I am not finding many secondary links, however. It is not particularly likely that these laws will appear in news sources unless there is some controversy, as in the case of the Cherokee. It may take from now until forever to work through them all, as according to the Bureau of Indian Affairs there are 566 recognized tribal entities.

What does "Mark this page as patrolled" mean? SusunW (talk) 05:28, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we can have the conversation on either your page or mine; I merely posted back on yours because I wasn't sure you'd think to check mine or know how to add it to your watchlist.
As a legal researcher, you can probably point to things where you can quote a line of actual law where what it says when read literally is not actually true, because that part of the law is adjusted or addressed by other legislation or by court ruling. We count on competent secondary sources to provide context.
When a new page is added to Wikipedia, we like someone with Wikipedia's interests in mind to take a look at it, and to flag it if it's, say, just an ad, or an attack page, or other things that don't have a place in Wikipedia, or if there are substantial problems with the way the content is presented. Marking the page as patrolled keeps it off of the list of new pages that need to be patrolled. --Nat Gertler (talk) 05:57, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. As I said, I have no idea how to work Wikipedia. Anything you want to edit, please feel free. :) I have no idea how to add something to a watchlist nor how to reply on my page so that you know I did. I am truly grateful for any assistance. SusunW (talk) 06:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

L.A. edit-a-thon this Sunday, December 14[edit]

L.A. meetup: December 14 edit-a-thon at the California African American Museum
California African American Museum sign.JPG

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

East of Borneo's "Unforgetting L.A." edit-a-thon series continues this weekend at the California African American Museum! Please join us this Sunday, December 14 from 11am to 4pm. Beginners welcome! You'll learn to create new articles that improve Wikipedia's coverage of African American art in Los Angeles, past and present. Please click here for full event details and to RSVP if you plan to attend.

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Deprod List of feminist comic books[edit]

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from List of feminist comic books, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{prod}} template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! There are numerous sources that discuss feminist comic books, comic books with feminist characters or feminist themes, and the articles Further reading section lists three. Lightbreather (talk) 01:13, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Priya's Shakti at WP:RSN[edit]

I have started a discussion about Priya's Shakti at RSN.

--Lightbreather (talk) 22:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:GoogleInfobox.tiff[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:GoogleInfobox.tiff. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 22:20, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:GoogleInfobox.tiff[edit]

A tag has been placed on File:GoogleInfobox.tiff requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a non-free file with a clearly invalid licensing tag; or it otherwise fails some part of the non-free content criteria. If you can find a valid tag that expresses why the file can be used under the fair use guidelines, please replace the current tag with that tag. If no such tag exists, please add the {{Non-free fair use}} tag, along with a brief explanation of why this constitutes fair use of the file. If the file has been deleted, you can re-upload it, but please ensure you place the correct tag on it.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Ironholds (talk) 18:21, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Notability[edit]

Yes, you have a point.

See also this and this by the same editor. (The second certainly is "notable", in a way: see this, for example.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:GoogleInfobox.tiff[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:GoogleInfobox.tiff. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 17:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:GoogleInfobox.tiff[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:GoogleInfobox.tiff. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 20:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:MarieCurieKnowledgeGraph.tiff[edit]

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Thanks for uploading File:MarieCurieKnowledgeGraph.tiff. I noticed that this file is being used under a claim of fair use. However, I think that the way it is being used fails the first non-free content criterion. This criterion states that files used under claims of fair use may have no free equivalent; in other words, if the file could be adequately covered by a freely-licensed file or by text alone, then it may not be used on Wikipedia. If you believe this file is not replaceable, please:

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L.A. event on Tuesday, January 20[edit]

Wik-Ed Women editing session (1/20, 6-10pm)

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

Please join us at an event this coming Tuesday: the third Wik-Ed Women editing session will take place on January 20 from 6pm to 10pm at the Los Angeles Contemporary Archive downtown. This series of informal get-togethers is designed to encourage Los Angeles women-in-the-arts (though all are welcome!) to contribute their expertise to Wikipedia, specifically expanding content about women artists. Please RSVP here if you plan to attend.

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:06, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Focus on the Family[edit]

Edit was reverted due to the IP editor being suspected as a sockpuppet who has a COMMBAN on them and as part of a WP:RBI; that was the main reason for the reversion. Nate (chatter) 17:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

LA edit-a-thons on February 14, 17, and 21[edit]

Redondo Loves Wikipedia (2/14), Wik-Ed Women (2/17), and Unforgetting LA at the Getty (2/21)!
Getty Museum (3334818780).jpg

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

The LA Wikipedia community has three events in mid-February -- please consider attending!

First, we have a Valentine's Day edit-a-thon appropriately named Redondo Loves Wikipedia, which will take place at the Redondo Beach Public Library from 10am to 1pm on Saturday, February 14. Join library staff, the Redondo Beach Historical Society, and others to help improve Wikipedia's coverage of Redondo Beach!

Second, we have a Wik-Ed Women editing session on Tuesday, February 17 from 6pm to 10pm at the Los Angeles Contemporary Archive downtown. This series of informal get-togethers is designed to encourage Los Angeles women-in-the-arts (though all are welcome!) to contribute their expertise to Wikipedia, specifically expanding content about women artists.

Third, we have an Unforgetting LA event put on by East of Borneo in collaboration with the Getty Research Institute. Come help improve Wikipedia's coverage of LA design and architecture, and have an awesome free day at the museum -- parking will be validated for edit-a-thon participants! If you'd like to use particular books from GRI's great collection, be sure to email before 2/13 (instructions at event page).

And be sure to check out our main meetup page, because we already have three SoCal events scheduled for early March!

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Historic.us Corporation[edit]

Understand your reasons for the deletion, I am the founder which was made clear on the earlier post releasing copyright information to Wikipedia. Not sure what to do to make this company eligible for a Wikipedia Page. Currently Historic.us Corporation has an exhibit at the Villa Antigua Border Heritage Museum, 810 Zaragoza Street, from January 21 – February 24, 2015. “America’s Four Republics: The More or Less United States,” for Washington's Birthday Celebration, which is just one of 16 that we have done in the past four years. List includes Carnegie Institute, Clara Barton House, Fort Pitt Museum, James Madison's Montpelier, James Monroe Foundation's Birthplace, MGM Grand Las Vegas Hotel, National Collegiate Conference, NY Hilton Hotel, Smithsonian "The American Presidency: A Glorious Burden”; Thomas Jefferson's Monticello, Waldorf=Astoria, DNC & RNC Conventions, LA, VA, WV, & U.S. Capitol exhibitions, New Orleans Mint and a host of Universities and Colleges. Perhaps this talk page will generate some interest in someone putting-up a Historic.us Corporation page since I have been deemed ineligible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stas.klos (talkcontribs) 18:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I am replying on the posting user's talk page. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Top Ten Comics[edit]

Nat, as discussed in earlier posts our company, Historic.us. exhibits U.S. History primary sources all across the United States. I learned to read on comics and we have been exploring the idea of exhibiting significant comic works that once produced, the course of the United States History was changed. I would be interested in your short list of outstanding comic works that changed the course of history. Thank youStas.klos (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

A tricky question, and I will not claim to be a specialist in American history (I would have a much easier time listing comics that had a significant impact on the field of comics than on the wider world in general). Plus, part of the question comes down to definition of "comics". With those caveats, and quickly off the top of my head (I do have deadlines looming):
  • If your definition of "comics" covers political cartoons, then we have to look at things where political cartoon symbology helped simplify or clarify a conversation. With that, we'd be looking at things like Benjamin Franklin's Join, or Die and the cartoons of Thomas Nast, looking particularly at the Tammany Hall work for immediate political impact, as well as the lasting symbology of the Republican elephant and his take on Santa Claus (although with Claus, there's obviously a longer, convoluted story to how America got that view on it.)
  • Mad Magazine, which changed the nation's viewpoint by having a very cynical, very critical comic book read by the younger set (in its wider sense, including the college folks), predating and arguably paving the way for That Was The Week That Was, The National Lampoon, Saturday Night Live, and so forth.
  • Action Comics #1, for introduction of the superhero (arguably not the first superhero, but this was clearly the one that had an impact); the cultural impact of that today can easily be noted simply by looking at recent box office records. The launch of Superman also gave an internationally-recognized symbol with a particularly American bent to it - it is, at base, the tale of an assimilating immigrant to our... I was about to say "shores", but he managed to skip the shores and land straight in Kansas.
  • "The Yellow Kid" for introducing the ongoing newspaper comic strip.
  • "Peanuts" had an obvious huge impact on the comic strip (any humor strip of the past 50 years that isn't influenced by Peanuts would have to be specifically and intentionally avoiding that influence) and has earned a place as a lens through which we view other things (how many political discussion are couched in such phrases as pulling the football away?) It obviously has plenty of direct leaks into other media, into our space program and such, although it can be argued that much of that is more decorative than actually changing matters.
I'd best get back to meeting some writing deadlines; I hope that that provided at least part of what you were looking for. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your hard work here, exactly what I was looking for and a foundation for a great exhibit. How do you distinguish between political cartoon types? - i.e. A Cartoon by Mad (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/37/b9/5f/37b95f727f8ed2c363ab4fcef532ec57.jpg) versus the ones found in newspapers (https://ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/clayton.jpg) versus Superman capturing Hitler (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/comic-covers/Pre-Crisis-Covers/1942/adv017s.jpg) . Are there recognized genres in comic history. For instance, what about Seuss' work during World War II. Would they be lumped into the political newspaper Category Cartoon (if such a genre exists) or somewhere else because he is a children cartoon book author (http://www.tufts.edu/programs/mma/fah189/2004/babula/art/images/milked.jpg). How would one organize an historic exhibits of American Cartoons/Comics for a meaningful exhibit. My first inclination is into cartoon/comic types but if I am going to include a broad spectrum, it might be better including cartoons/comics that had a major impact on human events and organize the works around the historic events? Stas.klos (talk) 05:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The view of comics is generally divided by the different forms of publishing and tradition they come from. When I say "political cartoons", I'm talking not in general of comics with a political slant, but specifically the editorial cartoon. It's a form that has traditionally meant less to entertain than to illustrate (these days, they are often expected to be humorous, but that's not been true for most of their history.) This would cover the work of Nast, Herblock, Oliphant... and yes, Geisel (Seuss). Many cartoonists bridge different fields of cartooning. But that category doesn't include, say, daily newspaper strips, even when they have a political bent - newspaper strips are their own form, and while there may be some overlap which will discuss editorial cartoons alongside, say, Doonesbury or the more political stretches of Pogo, those things are still generally recognize to be part of the newspaper strip.
Mad is seen as part of the comic book family. It was launched by a company otherwise known for horror and science fiction comics, and was originally a traditional comic book in format (although its odd history sometimes makes it seem as an exception within the comic book field.) Magazine cartoons - now most commonly seen in the New Yorker, but formerly a larger part of a healthy magazine field - are their own grouping. Children's book illustration, again, a separate field. The graphic novel is seen as an extension of the comic book,
As I said, plenty of people skip among the various forms. There are also plenty of items that aren't quickly simply categorized. (With my publisher hat on, I recently reprinted the JFK Coloring Book, which actually spent some time on the best-seller list a tad over half a century ago, really political humor aimed at adults, drawn by one of the Mad artists, but not quite within any of the traditional categories.)
As to how one would organize a museum show, that is likely beyond my expertise. Shows are more likely to be organized around one type of cartooning, or around specific time themes were the breadth of material being thrown at a single theme (like, say, cartoon depictions of Hitler, and how they changed as the US entered the war. By the way, were you aware that Captain America was actually battling Hitler before America was battling Hitler?) Were I actually called to curate such a thing, I'd probably want to organize it more around nature of the impact than around the item... in part, because I find things more interesting when seemingly disparate items are shown to have a link. --Nat Gertler (talk) 06:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Age[edit]

I am sorry, my math was off. I have reworded the note to better reflect the controversy and added her to the age controversy category. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:24, 14 February 2015 (UTC)