User talk:NatGertler

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FOR EARLIER POSTS see Archive 1, Archive 2

New Page Patrol survey[edit]


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Holiday Cheer[edit]

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Michael Q. Schmidt talkback is wishing you Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings. - MQS

October 2013[edit]

Editing glitch[edit]

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Hello, NatGertler. You have new messages at Scwlong's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

L.A. events on June 21 and July 6[edit]

Upcoming L.A. events: Unforgetting L.A. edit-a-thon (Saturday, June 21, 12-5pm) and Wiknic (Sunday, July 6, ~9:30am-4pm)

Gallery at 356 S. Mission Rd.
Get hungry for the Wiknic!

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

The L.A. Wikipedia community has two exciting events coming up in the next few weeks: an edit-a-thon sponsored by the online magazine East of Borneo, and the fourth annual Los Angeles Wiknic!

The East of Borneo event is an edit-a-thon that aims to build a better history of art in Southern California. This next chapter of their Unforgetting L.A. series will take place on Saturday, June 21, 2014 from 12pm to 5pm at 356 S. Mission Rd. (map). Beginners welcome! Please RSVP here if you plan to attend. For more info, see

The Wiknic is a part of the nationwide Great American Wiknic. We'll be grilling, getting to know each other better, and building the L.A. Wikipedia community! The event is tentatively planned for Pan-Pacific Park (map) and will be held on Sunday, July 6, 2014 from 9:30am to 4pm or so. Please RSVP and volunteer to bring food or drinks if possible!

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Deletion of Modern Future[edit]

Hi NatGertler,

I wanted to reach out to you to have a discussion about the deletion of Modern Future- aside from removing your template I didn't see how I could go back and forth with the editors that want the page gone.

Production companies seem to be in a bit of a grey area in terms of music notability. You're right - this page likely doesn't meet WP:BAND but hey, it's not a band. If you can't count credits toward a production companies notability there's not a lot else you can use - these people make the music but they're a pretty silent partner most of the time and labels and artists take the credit. I think notability as an organization would be more appropriate and since there are numerous second hand sources mentioning the company's work I feel it would pass notability.

Furthermore - I don't understand how pages like Frisbie (music company), Capellen Music Production, Ishlab Music or many of those listed Category:Music production have pages with little to no references and a company like Modern Future making music for many notable acts and w/ over 9 referenced sources doesn't warrant a page.

Again - hope to have a conversation with you about this page and would appreciate knowing what could be added to help pass notability requirements. Thank you.

PingreePark (talk) 00:22, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

There may well be other pages out there that should be marked for deletion, in fact, I can almost guarantee there are. Music is one of the places where we most get people trying to promote their own selfs/groups/companies through Wikipedia... which is a really bad idea.
The sources that you are using wouldn't seem to meet WP:ORG, our notability guidelines for companies and organizations, any more than it meets our guidelines for musical acts. Credits in a credit listing do not amount to the "significant coverage" that it calls for. As odd as it may sound, qualifying for a Wikipedia page has less to do with what you've done and more to do with whether the proper folks are talking about you. Does that bias Wikipedia in the same way that the rest of the media is biased, more likely to talk about actors and musicians than even the finest janitor? Yup. But those are the guidelines we work with.
Working with notable acts also does not inherently make you notable; see WP:NOTINHERITED for that guideline.
That doesn't mean that Modern Future won't have what it takes for a page some day; we certainly do have pages for folks best knowing for the record production. If they get some coverage, get some awards, things like that, sure. But merely having credits is simply what it takes to be a record producer, and record producers are not inherently notable. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Let me add that it is clearly not just my opinion. During the Article For Deletion discussion, only two other editors besides you and I voiced their opinions; both called for deletion. The administrator who was reviewing the discussion also judged for deletion. With the article in its new form, two additional editors have voiced their opinion, one by endorsing the PROD and the other by calling for a speedy deletion... i.e., both calling for deletion. --Nat Gertler (talk) 02:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the response - I'll wait until they get coverage of the company on it's own (outside of credits) or an award or the sort before relisting. Although we disagree on this particular article I appreciate what you do. PingreePark (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for understanding, and please rest assured that my stance on the article is in no way personal; it is not a comment on your editing in general, nor for that matter a comment on the work of Modern Future, which I have not experienced. It's merely me trying my best to implemented the Wikipedia standards as I understand them. I, too, have had articles that I created deleted; it's part of the process. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:24, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


See Talk:Yank_Barry#Lawsuit_against_Wikipedians - Cwobeel (talk) 01:42, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Comic (publishing) company vs specialist publishing firm[edit]

Hi, the article about yours truly talks about "[your] specialist publishing firm called About Comics", About Comics says [...] publisher of comics and comics-related material. Is there a difference, is both to be used interchangeable, and which do you prefer? Regards. (talk) 09:48, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure it makes much difference. About Comics is a publishing firm firmly rooted in comics; like many comics publishers, the line includes some things that are not comics but are related to comics, although thanks to the success of things such as Panel One (a book of scripts from which comic books have been drawn), the related-to comics category is a bit bigger portion of my sales than most. (And to confuse things further, About is now also publishing some things that are only vaguely related to comics, such as the novels by Robert Mayer and Sol Weinstein being released under the Combustoica imprint, although comics-related is the clear bulk of our sales.) Of the two, I'd probably prefer "publisher of comics and comics-related material" (it's clearer, and "specialist" should probably be "specialty" in the other phrase anyway); I'd be fine with that or "comics publisher". But I have not real problem with either; if your goal is to make sure the two articles match, don't worry about it. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:55, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Since I read both articles one afteranother, I just wondered about the different wording. So it's "publisher of comics and comics-related material". Thanks for the reply. All the best. (talk) 20:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Gary Gauthier[edit]

This deletion is likely to be controversial, do I de-prodded it. Please go to WP:AfD for further directions. Bearian (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Joey Ziolkowski[edit]

Hi NatGertler! I understand what you are saying. However, the PROD was placed by Piotrus in the article Joey Ziolkowski explicitly mentioning
"Joey Ziolkowski|concern=The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..."
Further, the PROD was reverted by IP whose contributions are dubious. He seems to be related to the person Joey Ziolkowski. CCed on my talk page. Cheers! 7Sidz (talk) 19:00, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I've responded on your talk page. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:04, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

jon platt[edit]

hey, thanks for the message! i'm new to this, but i'll do my best to do it like you just did. sorry for the inconvenience. DetroitRed X (talk) 15:29, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Unforgetting L.A. edit-a-thon on September 6[edit]

Unforgetting L.A. edit-a-thon: Saturday, September 6 from 11am to 4pm
Armory Center for the Arts.jpg

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

You are invited to meet up with online magazine East of Borneo for an edit-a-thon to build a better history of art in Southern California. This next event in their Unforgetting L.A. series will take place on Saturday, September 6, 2014 from 11am - 4pm at the Armory Center for the Arts in Pasadena (map). Beginners welcome! Please RSVP here if you plan to attend. For more info, see

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

L.A. Meetup on September 21[edit]

The 20th Los Angeles meetup: Sunday, September 21 from 11am to 4pm

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

Join us on Sunday, September 21, from 11am to 4pm at Kramer Studio in Mid-City (map) for a meetup and edit-a-thon! Get to know the Los Angeles Wikipedia community and do some editing (or learn to edit!) in a collaborative environment. Please RSVP and consider becoming a member of the SoCal task force to help us improve articles about everything in the region.

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:00, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.


You added "usually" to:

A person coming out as trans is usually not making a change in their gender. You're saying usually, which means that sometimes it is false. Any situation where it is false?? Georgia guy (talk) 15:53, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

There have been people who have transitioned and transitioned back. By the logic that transitioning means that they always were what they became, we are left with a conundrum. It is likely not an issue in the vast majority of cases, but we should not reject folks simply for being in the minority. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Will Hayden and Sons of Guns topic ban proposal for User:9711CA[edit]

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --DHeyward (talk) 20:25, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion of My Article Jennifer Mundel[edit]

Hello. I new to Wikipedia and I have been creating many new articles. You said you will delete my article because it is not notable but I only created it because I saw it in the list of articles that needs to be created urgently on Wikipedia. I also notice that the french version of the article is avaluable online Are you saying that an article can be notable for Wikipedia French but unnotable for English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulabcie (talkcontribs) 00:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually, yes, different language Wikipediae can have different notability requirements. Additionally, what I had to judge your article on was what was presented in your article, and once I eliminated the claim that she had won 3 US Opens (which would definitely have qualified her under our notability standards, but appeared to have been false), there wasn't enough there to meet our notability guidelines at WP:NTENNIS. I do not read French, so I cannot fully tell from the French article whether there is enough there to qualify her (under either the English or French guidelines.) Having said that, if you object to the deletion, you can simply eliminate the PROD tag from the article; at that point, if I wished to see the article deleted, I would have to go through the more cumbersome Articles For Deletion (AFD) process, and get agreement to it. So my suggestion to you is that you review WP:NTENNIS, and if you feel that this player meets the standards there, go ahead and delete the PROD tag from the article. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:54, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I have redited the article and removed the deletion proposal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulabcie (talkcontribs) 01:11, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
The Wimbledon information should protect it from any deletion attempt! Good job! --Nat Gertler (talk) 02:09, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


I tried archiving my page but am not sure if I did it correctly please can you assist me to look at it.Ulabcie (talk) 00:44, 16 September 2014 (UTC)