- 1 Herbie Hewett
- 2 Great images
- 3 County Cricket Council
- 4 Re: Hewett/Palairet photo
- 5 Herbie Hewett at Featured Article
- 6 A cookie for you!
- 7 Walter Tate
- 8 Dickens
- 9 March 2012
- 10 Non-free rationale for File:TheCricketAnnual1961FrontCover.jpg
- 11 West Indies cricket
- 12 Non-free rationale for File:PlayfairCricketAnnual1948FrontCover.jpg
- 13 1 Hole v. 1 Up
- 14 Tommy Armour
- 15 File:PlayfairCricketAnnual1963FrontCover.jpg
- 16 Difficulty in Ryder Cup editing
- 17 Tom Morris, etc.
- 18 BNA access
- 19 TopGolf
Thanks for your useful additions to this article; they're adding a lot of background information I didn't have access to! I've gone through a few of your additions making a few MoS fixes, but otherwise it all looks great, hopefully you'll be able to dig up plenty more on the cricketers of this era! Harrias talk 19:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Planning to do Ted Tyler soon. I seem to have plenty of info on him. Nigej 19:05, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the info regarding Hewett's probable lack of a wife. Incidentally, do you have more details on the references you've listed for the information you've added to his article, issue/volume numbers, authors, dates: that sort of stuff? I think the article is pretty much of a featured article status, but I suspect the reviewers there will be keen on that sort of information. Harrias talk 13:39, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the great image you added to Malcolm Jardine, and also noticed a good one of George John a few weeks ago. Really good. You must have some incredible books. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:49, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- I was scanning a photo of Vernon Hill and came across the Malcolm Jardine one nearby; both following their centuries in the university match. Jardine gets the whole of the front page of Cricket for 7 Jul 1892. Those were the days. Most of the photos I can find of early WI cricketers are terrible but beggars can't be choosers, I guess. Nigej 19:05, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't suppose you have any photos of George Hirst or Wilfred Rhodes? I've lots, but it's impossible to find when they were first published and obviously anything pre-1923 is a no-no! Similarly any photos of Yorkshire cricketers from pre-1923 would be much appreciated. --Sarastro1 (talk) 16:15, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
County Cricket Council
Interesting article but can you please bear in mind that categories are necessary and also that we have an established structure whereby articles are allocated to appropriate sub-categories and not just placed in Category:Cricket or another high-level category. Categories are used by the readers who need them as a navigation tool and they will find your article more easily if you have categorised it in compliance with the WP:CRIC structure. Also, per WP:MOS, we don't use a definite or indefinite article to begin a title unless its inclusion is universally recognised (e.g., The Oval or a book/song title). ----Jack | talk page 08:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
- I take the point but can't say I found the WP:CRIC page at all enlightening as to which categories to use. I'll take your word about the definite article. Nigej 10:49, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Re: Hewett/Palairet photo
Yeah, I spent quite a while with some photo editing software trying to improve the image that I had; it started off in much the same format as the one you've uploaded. Nice work with all the images and work on Golden Age articles. Harrias talk 14:18, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Herbie Hewett at Featured Article
I have listed Herbie Hewett at featured article, and one of the things that has come up are your "Cricket: A Weekly Record of the Game" sources (plus a few others) lacking information, such as issue number. Unfortunately, without this, it looks like I might have to remove a lot of the useful and interesting information that you have added. Can you take a look Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Herbie Hewett/archive1 and see if you can help at all. Thanks, Harrias talk 22:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
- The quote that reads "made in less than two hours, and was a splendid display of free and taking cricket without a fault" does not quite make sense. Could you double-check it? Cheers! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:06, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
It does say "free and taking" but perhaps it's worth removing just because of the obscure terminology. Nigej 09:49, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Couple more queries! This featured article stuff is pretty thorough! Can you find any more details on the images you uploaded, per the questions at []. Specifically: File:OxfordUniversityCricketXI1886.jpg and File:Somerset1892 RedLillywhite1893.jpg. Thanks, Harrias talk 21:37, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi Nigej. I came across a legal notice for a "William Walter Giffard Tate" in the Sydney Morning Herald of 18 April 1947, indicating that he died on 29 December 1946. There are also numerous other references in www.trove.com, the Australian newspaper archive, to a Mr W. W. Giffard Tate in Adelaide social circles between 1892 and 1928. I wondered if you, as someone with a deep knowledge of Somerset cricketers of the past, thought this might be the long-undead Walter Tate, who played a single match for Somerset in 1882, but who is still remarkably alive at the age of 148 on cricket websites? I sent a note to Pete Griffiths at Cricketarchive as well, in case he has access to other records. Kind regards. Johnlp (talk) 00:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Nigej, addressing your concerns. Misty Morn has just came up with a brilliant idea.... subarticle, Dickens social opinions and influence, that way, the biography stays encyclopedic, and the sub article covers the issue in depth. Harrison 1979 (talk) 22:27, 23 February (UTC)
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Non-free rationale for File:TheCricketAnnual1961FrontCover.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:TheCricketAnnual1961FrontCover.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.
If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:11, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
West Indies cricket
I'm looking at trying to further improve some of the early West Indies articles. I think most of the decent stuff we already have was done by you, and I was wondering if you know of any good sources out there. I have a pretty good "Record of West Indian Test Cricketers" for the Test players, Manley's history and CLR James. Is there anything else on any of the prominent non-Test players. Also, I don't suppose you have anything on George Dewhurst or Joe Small? Thanks. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:41, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Non-free rationale for File:PlayfairCricketAnnual1948FrontCover.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:PlayfairCricketAnnual1948FrontCover.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.
If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
1 Hole v. 1 Up
Thanks for the note. I apologize for the "idiot" comment. I thought someone was just playing a game. As far as the content goes: I see your link...but former Wikipedia articles should not be considered a source for continuing to list it like that. The official Ryder Cup scoring page has it listed as "Wins 1 Up."
I will concede that the non American usage of "1 Hole" may be common...but this is the US version of Wikipedia, and the appropriate terminology should be reflected based on what is used in the US. If this were the UK Wiki, then you'd be correct. But in the US we say "1 Up"
We can go back and forth about this all day...but the reality is that the OFFICIAL RYDER CUP scoreboard shows the score as "1 Up." So why do you want to change it? I will go back and change the other Wiki pages if that makes you feel better...but just because someone else updated Wikis wrong does not mean that makes it right...one person lists it like that, and the mistake gets perpetuated every year. I changed a decades worth of pages, and you obviously went and changed them back. If your argument is that it should say "1 Hole" because the other pages list it like that, then why once they were changed did you still change it? I don't get why you're being so stubborn here.
Again, if the RYDER CUP website lists the score as "1 Up" that's what the score is. As you said, you should use the custom and language appropriate to the origin of the page...and in this case that means you should use "1 Up" — Preceding unsigned comment added by OFoley (talk • contribs) 17:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Here's an odd one. I wondered why Tommy never competed in the Ryder Cup so I did a little digging. Anyway the reason was pretty interesting as according to www.ancestry he was still British/Scottish until he got his US papers way down the line in November 42. ALL the usual sources list him as American but his actual naturalization papers trump all the other evidence. We should really correct this, it's more clear-cut than Fred Robson last week, but I get the feeling that any change made will be reverted instantly. What do you think? Topcardi (talk) 21:44, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
- The rules for playing in the Ryder Cup seem to be difficult to discover. Not sure why. The original "Deed of Trust" made no mention of qualification rules but the US made there own rule about qualification and the revision in 1929 formally restricted players to those born in the country (and resident there). Sometime between then and now it seem to have changed to age 18 (http://golf.about.com/b/2012/08/17/pettersson-a-player-without-a-ryder-cup-country.htm says "As for Team USA, naturalized American citizens are eligible to play Ryder Cup for the United States - but only if they acquired citizenship before turning 18.". Either way Armour wouldn't have qualified.
- I suppose the second issue is what the flag actually means. Does it mean nationality? What about dual nationals? Justin Rose was born in South Africa but has an England flag (presumably he's British, is he South African too?). Is Heather Watson British? not sure, but she often gets a British flag. Same for Mark Cavendish. There's been discussion about removing all the flags (eg []) but I find then quite useful personally . After all, except in a few competitions (eg Ryder Cup) players are not representing a country, they're just playing as individuals. So in Armour's case does an US flag mean he's an American citizen or living in America or regarded as an American. Not 100% clear.
- Anyway, to answer the question, the best approach seems to me to make changes to the Tommy Armour page stressing the details of his nationality, putting in appropriate references. Later, if you feel strongly, you could try changing the flags in eg U.S. Open (golf), This has knock on effects. of course, eg List of U.S. Open (golf) champions#Champions by nationality. Nigej 08:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi , I'm Sfan00_IMG , I note you uploaded this image, would you mind expanding the rationale so it address ALL 10 points of WP:NFCC ?
Difficulty in Ryder Cup editing
Hello, Nigej -- First off, let me say congratulations from this American to you for Europe winning the Ryder Cup, another nice display of putting, simply too much for the USA side.
The main reason I'm sending this message is because I just wanted to mention, this morning I had so many edit conflicts with IP users coming on to the 2014 Ryder Cup article, I just gave up after a while; just as I would be about to correct something, there would be another edit conflict and it would be another mistake that needed to be corrected, and then when I would go in to correct it, it resulted in another edit conflict. So, the only thing to do was just give up and wait until it was all over. So, that's what I did.
- Yes. It's often better to lie low in the heat of the event and then correct things later when the dust has died down. Hopefully some of IP editors may get into the habit of editing and join us - assuming they are ready to make constructive edits. Bit of mystery to me why Europe has done so well recently. I'm sure Tom Watson will get blamed but the media are always looking for simplistic reasons and blaming the captain seems to be the starting point. Nigej (talk) 16:09, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I see you found as I too found that another IP user taking the flags away on the Ryder Cup articles. We may not know their motivation for doing that, but as you can see, they are repeatedly doing it. Hopefully they will stop after a while. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 14:45, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
- Yes. Very annoying. Perhaps the same user who's tried removing flagicons before. I don't really understand the problem. Actually I've let the removal of flagicons from the vice-captains list go, but I am keen on retaining them for the teams. I think they're in all 2-team competition pages: Ryder Cup (40), Presidents Cup (10), Seve Trophy (8), Royal Trophy (7), EurAsia Cup (1), Solheim Cup (13), Lexus Cup (4), Walker Cup (10) so just removing them from 3 Ryder Cup pages seems to me to be a pointless exercise. Look at 2014 Wimbledon Championships and you'll see that they're so all-pervasive in the sports pages that removing them is not practical. Of course there are some users who are overly keen on flagicons and they need removing too when inappropriate. Not every reference to a country need a flag next to it. Nigej (talk) 14:55, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Tom Morris, etc.
"Did Tom Morris, Jr. 'represent' Scotland? I'm not sure he would qualify as Scottish under any of the criteria you list."
Nigej, all golfers can be said to "represent" their country in some form or fashion. Yes, I know it fits imperfectly in some cases, especially for some of the old-timers like Morris. And it's even more interesting because of the UK tradition whereby golfers and some other sportsmen represent their constituent nation (i.e., England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland), rather than Britain as a whole. But, be careful: the anti-flag icon crusaders are looking for any excuse or inconsistency to attack all flag icon use. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:57, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
- My worry is that by being prescriptive we open ourselves to arguments even more. Simply saying that we have a Scottish flag for Russell Knox because the pgatour does, seems to me to be simpler. Of course it's the same problem whether we us a Scottish flagicon or just say Scottish. The issue of whether we use flagicon or simply a name is a separate one. I'm keen that we agree that we want flagicons (or indeed that we don't) and that we put this somewhere in WP:GOLF so that we can refer to it in the future. This was also the reason I wrote the stuff about where flagicons should be in articles like 2014 Ryder Cup. Nigej (talk) 16:05, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
- Nigej, you absolutely should make the PGA Tour-specific argument. All of the other WP:Golf regulars should, too. I edit across a dozen or more sports, about half of which are international and character and use flag icons for the bio infoboxes accordingly, and I view the bigger picture. I think the present threat to WP:Golf has passed (Tewapack handled it well by starting the discussion at the template talk page), but this will not be the strongest anti-flag attack nor the last we see. The real issues in this dust-up are (1) flag icons really are overused in certain circumstances (just look at some of the tournament results tables in golf, tennis, etc.), and (b) the anti-flag editors are against them on principle because they believe such overtly "nationalistic" representations should have no place on Wikipedia. At some point the affected sports projects are going to have to address this issue directly at MOS. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:52, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
- I do actually have some sympathy with "nationalistic" argument. The worst "offender" (if I can use such) is the Olympic Games where the nationalistic aspects seems to pervade the whole event, when there ought to be more focus on the competitors as competitors. Golf is relatively good in this area. Players are seen as individuals and their "nationality" is recorded as a point of interest rather than for any nationalistic reason. Thankfully we don't generally go in for national anthems and all that rubbish. Yes we do not curtail the excesses of some editors who want to add a flag to any reference to a country. As I said above the issue of whether flagicons should be used is different from the issue of whether countries should mentioned. Should we have sections like 2014 Open Championship#Nationalities in the field, 2014 WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship#Breakdown by country, List of European Ryder Cup golfers#European country records? Personally I find them interesting and I don't feel they add to the nationalistic element. Nigej (talk) 07:37, 2 October 2014 (UTC)