# User talk:Nxavar

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## Why change a perfectly straightforward explanation?

In the edit summary to this edit you said "The edit showed how Heron's formula is derived". can you explain why that version makes it clearer how the formula is derived than the original version? As far as I can see, it just makes it unnecessarily complicated, and I totally fail to see how anyone who can understand the more complicated version can fail to understand the simpler version. I should also like to call your attention to WP:BRD, which is not WP:BRR. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 18:44, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

First of all, thank you for starting the discussion. Moving to the main point, I believe it is better to explain math with math, with prose being complementary. I understand your concern about keeping things simple. I tried to fix this by doing some more editing on the prose, which is very close to what was originally there. Moreover, the math that I have added to the section is no more complicated than the math for h2 and is just a two step derivation. Don't you agree? Nxavar (talk) 21:12, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
1. You still haven't, as far as I can see, answered my question about why you think your version makes it any clearer "how Heron's formula is derived" than the original.
2. I have no particular objection to replacing "from which Heron's formula follows" with an equals sign followed by the formula; I don't feel strongly either way, though I do like stating that the required result has been reached, rather than just stopping.
3. "We have now expressed the height h from side c in terms of the three sides (a,b,c)" is factually incorrect: only h2 has been so expressed. Of course, that is a trivial detail, but I don't see any advantage in making an inaccurate statement rather than an accurate one. However, why mention it at all? Anyone who is capable of understanding the proof can see for themselves that h2 has been expressed in terms of the sides, so stating it is an unnecessary complication, and an inaccurate one too. I don't see that the prose in any useful way complements the maths.
4. It seems to me that when c is multiplied by the expression for h, squaring c and putting it inside the square root is an unnecessary complication, since c is going to be cancelled anyway.
5. None of those is a matter of importance, and if the article had originally been written the way you prefer I would no doubt have left it that way. However, you evidently must have thought that the change was a very significant improvement, since you restored an edit which had been reverted, so that you cannot have thought that it was uncontroversial. I am also uncertain why you repeated your own edit without explanation or any attempt at raising the issue for discussion. I tend to assume that an editor who has been around for many years, and made well over 1000 edits, is aware of the accepted editing standards, and know that repeating your own reverted edit without discussion is not considered helpful, though I see that only a very small proportion of your edits have been on discussion pages, so I suppose it is possible that you are largely unaware of such understandings. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 18:32, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
I did not just revert your edit. I reverted it and then did some more editing so that it is less complicated, targeting one of your concers. For this reason, Point 3 of your remarks is no longer relevant. About the derivation being complicated, feel free to show another way to go from $A=\frac{ch}{2}$ to Heron's formula. In anycase, what the math does is making the necessary substitutions and simplifications to arrive to Heron's formula. The previous edition just refered to that. The current actually shows it. This is how it makes it clearer how Heron's formula is derived. Also, "perfectly straightforward" is subjective, and not an argument in itself. Nxavar (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I understand what you say. Initially, I just saw your revert that I was notified of, and didn't check the editing history of the article, so I didn't know of your subsequent edits. I see now that what you were doing was significantly different from how it looked to me. I suggest that, to avoid similar problems in future, it may be a good idea whenever you do anything that even in part reverts a reversion of your editing, to mention what you are doing to the editor you are reverting. Obviously, "perfectly straightforward" is subjective, but that doesn't mean that it is "not an argument in itself": while mathematics may be concerned only with logical and objective issues, the meta-meta-mathematics of what formulation is most helpful to human readers is certainly concerned with such subjective issues as what does and does not seem straightforward to human readers. I still prefer the original version, but it's not a huge deal. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:27, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
You still have to explain yourself though, and you are actually right if we talk about the initial version of my edit. As for who should take the burden of informing the reverted party about corrective edits (the reverting party, the reverted party, or the notification mechanism), this an issue bigger than you and me and it should be discussed in a more appropriate page. Nxavar (talk) 12:05, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Hash function, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Set (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Lexical analysis, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Semantic analysis (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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## Your edits on the Germany + Talk article

Hi. I don't know where exactly it is coming from, but it seems like a gut feeling you're on a drive to impede the Germany article, given these, these and these ongoing discussions. How exactly do you intend to contribute here? How do you think your approach helps improving the actual article? I'm just curious. All the best, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 11:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)