User talk:Orhanghazi

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

Hello, Orhanghazi, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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August 2009[edit]

Information.svg Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary, as you forgot on your recent edit to Evergreen Marine. Thank you. –túrianpatois 14:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Malay people.jpg[edit]

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Congkak[edit]

Hi Orhanghazi. I moved the swan-congkak image to the top for the introduction, although I have to say that the picture quality is rather poor (I prefer to find a better image for the introduction). I also re-placed the dakon image and moved it to the history subsection, that way there is a better 'hint' about this amazing southeastasian version of the mancala game. Dakon, or Congkak, or perhaps Mokaotan, these are only names for a form of game that shares a very similar rule in southeast asia. :) --Rochelimit (talk) 18:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

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Hello. I found the following edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Congkak&diff=415297556&oldid=415295344 . Note that there is indeed a mancala game very similar to Congkak played in Sri Lanka. It is called Chonka. See also: http://mancala.wikia.com/wiki/Congkak and the book of Henry Parker (http://books.lakdiva.org/parker/) 84.175.173.15 (talk) 07:37, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Userpage[edit]

Hi

I have copied your biographic table for my user page. Hope you don't mind.Quixodon (talk) 12:49, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain on "Indon" remark[edit]

On your edit explanation on article Sepak Takraw you wrote: Reverting possible vandalism by an Indon. Please refrain on Indon remark, it can be categorized as ethnic slur. Even so the vandal is Indonesian that can be traced to Pekanbaru Riau, please reverting the vandalism neutraly without unnecesary agression by expressing slurs towards other nationalities. cheers. Gunkarta (talk) 00:38, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Why dont we re-create an article about the word "Indon" first before categorizing the word as "ethnic slur". This is just a suggestion..:)(Orhanghazi (talk) 02:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC))

Thank you[edit]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Bersih 3.0 rally, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use your sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.57.178 (talk) 09:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK nom[edit]

Hi, I proposed DYK nomination for recently article you have created, Template:Did you know nominations/Malayisation. Please regularly check and answer any problem that maybe raise there. Thanks. *Annas* (talk) 09:19, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Malayisation[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Malayisation at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Lihaas (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

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DYK for Malayisation[edit]

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:02, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

warning[edit]

You are close to being in WP:3RR territory - you can be blocked for your reverts at Ethnic Malays SatuSuro 12:17, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

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History of the Malay language (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added links pointing to Banda, Maluku, Frontispiece, Ambon, Batavia, Corpus and Orthographic

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Etymology / Usage[edit]

Etymology is different to usage. From wikipedia: Etymology is the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time. By an extension, the term "etymology (of a word)" means the origin of a particular word. --Dravidianhero (talk) 06:43, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Malay Wikipedia[edit]

Hi Orhanghazi, I hope you will come back to Malay Wikipedia and helps us to contribs some new articles at there.----Aplikasi (Talk) 01:29, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Salam saudara, maaf saya tidak boleh buat dlm masa terdekat ni, masih ada beberapa rancangan saya untuk en.wiki. Sekarang pun saya sedang mengusahakan artikel "Kedah Sultanate" dan kemungkinan ada 2 lagi rencana "Sultanate" di Malaysia yg akan saya buat. Saya memang ada perancangan untuk kembali ke ms.wiki, kalau tiada aral melintang, mungkin selepas semuanya selesai di sini. Saya lihat ms.wiki pun tidaklah ketandusan penyunting2 baru, bahkan semakin hampir mengejar id.wiki mengikut jumlah rencana..tahniah. Satu soalan...anda sudah bersara??-Ø:G (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Saya cuma berharap agar anda kembali semula ke ms.wiki. Bolehlah bantu mencipta pelbagai jenis rencana di mswiki. Kami semua di ms.wiki amat mengalu-alukan kepulangan anda. Ya, saya sudah bersara di en.wiki dalam mencipta rencana kerana tidak tahan dengan polisinya yang agak berat sebelah. Saya agak pelik mengapa rencana Bagan parish mesti di lencongkan padahal ianya juga terdapat di Kelantan selain Johor. Tetapi walau bagaimanapun saya masih aktif di ms.wiki. Saya akan berusaha sedaya-upaya memajukan ms.wiki kerana peraturannya tidak begitu ketat berbanding en.wiki.----Aplikasi (Talk) 12:58, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Lagi satu, kerana kebanyakan para pengguna di en.wiki seperti tidak menghargai sumbangan pengguna lain. Mengapa saya perlu mendapat amaran sebelum ini walhal rencana tersebut juga terdapat di ms.wiki.----Aplikasi (Talk) 13:00, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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Reliable sources[edit]

See WP:Reliable sources. Wikis are as a general rule, not reliable. It's also a self-published source by the looks of it. If you want a wiki/SPS declared reliable, the best way is to ask on WP:RS/N. CMD (talk) 00:53, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think all my sources are self-published, even if you think the source is 'unreliable', then just put a remark on it, why the heck you revert my entire edits? Ø:G (talk) 01:00, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
For the other reasons I mentioned in the summary. You were making large changes under the misleading edit summary of "rearrange", some of which you've supported with wikis, and some which has directly contradicted information previously there. Information that is unreliable should be removed, per the wikipedia WP:Verification policy. Per WP:BRD, if you think the information should be added, explain so in the talkpage, and achieve consensus there before adding. CMD (talk) 01:14, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The problem here is you don't make it specific, which sentence is wrong or which part need improvements. Instead of giving any suggestions, you simply revert the work of others which properly cited, and thats pretty rude. I do made little additions but not that large, it also involves rearranging sentences previously there, thats why i put it "rearrange". In case you missed it or don't even brother to read, below are among infos that I have added
  • The name 'Malaysia' is a combination of the word Malay and the Latin/Greek suffix -sia/-σία.[1]
  • In modern terminology, "Malay" is the name of an ethnoreligious group of Austronesian people predominantly inhabiting the Malay peninsula and portions of adjacent islands of Southeast Asia, including the east coast of Sumatra, the coast of Borneo, and smaller islands that lie between these areas.[2]
  • The origins of the word Melayu ('Malay') itself are disputed. Among notable theories are, it is derived from the Sungai Melayu ('Melayu river') in Sumatra,[3] from the Melayu Kingdom, a classical kingdom that existed in the 7th century Sumatra.
  • In 19th century, the concept of "Malay race" was first propagated by European scholars, in referring to all natives of Maritime Southeast Asia or Austronesians as a whole. A number of derivations from this anachronistic concept was later introduced, among others were the terms "Malay Archipelago"[4] as well as "Malaysia" itself.
Now, do enlighten me, which part is "unreliable" and "need to be verified"?.Ø:G (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I did, specifically mention the wiki source, which you at least seem to have removed. You've removed completely, without explanation, the widespread idea that Malaysia is Malaya + si. This needed an explanation, and should likely be explained as false if it is. You've also written that the origins of the name "Melayu" are disputed, and given for 2 of your proposed 3 possibilities theories which include the word "Melayu". You've also removed the note on Malayadvipa without explanation. Other terms related to the word Malay aren't relevant to the etymology of Malaysia. You're still conflating the skin-colour Malay race with ethnolinguistic Austronesians incorrectly.
If you're editing a wiki anyone can edit, expect to not always be in agreement with others. This is what finding wp:consensus is about, as well as wp:brd. In addition to rearranging sentences, and adding, you've also removed some, which you've failed to note. Remember that while you claim reverting your work is rude, you've simply overwritten the work of many others and edit warred that overwritten information in. CMD (talk) 13:34, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
  • You've removed completely, without explanation, the widespread idea that Malaysia is Malaya + si - Nope, i didn't remove this, its still there.LOL (seriously...are u really reading it before reverting?). Although i don't quite agree that this Malaya+si being "widespread", it is cited by at least one source, thus i left it there.
  • You've also written that the origins of the name "Melayu" are disputed, and given for 2 of your proposed 3 possibilities theories which include the word "Melayu"- are you denying there is a dispute here? seriously? the Malay Annals points it to Sungai Melayu, while several scholars suggesting Melayu Kingdom , all these are quite well-known facts, even taught in schools, how much citations you need to get you convinced? tell me. The theory points to Tamil origin is the weakest one here, the cited works are of scholars not even specialised in Malay studies. But surprisingly it get your so called "consensus" to be there.
  • You've also removed the note on Malayadvipa without explanation - this word aren't relevant to the etymology of Malaysia. It was written thousands of years ago and no any clear evidence suggesting that those Europeans who coined the word "Malaysia", made their derivations from it. The citations merely mention that Malayadvipa was used for Malay peninsular, and no reference was made to relate it with the etymology of Malaysia.
  • Other terms related to the word Malay aren't relevant to the etymology of Malaysia - well, in what way that these word aren't relevant, enlighten me please. You are making a general statement here. After all, all of these came from the same root word, "Malay"
Malay (Melayu)->Malay peninsula or Malaya (Tanah Melayu) (15th century-20th century)->Federation of Malaya (Persekutuan Tanah Melayu)(1948-1963)->Malaysia (1963-present)
Malay (Melayu)->Malay Race (19th century)->Malay archipelago(19th century)->"Malaysia" (19th century)
  • You're still conflating the skin-colour Malay race with ethnolinguistic Austronesians incorrectly. - the term Austronesian is quite new, previously in the 19th century and early 20th century, Malay race was used instead. It is clearly mentioned in my edit that this is an anachronistic concept, no longer relevant today. Ill remove the "austronesian" thing.Ø:G (talk) 19:16, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Ah, found it. I suppose that was part of your rearrangements. My apologies, but in that case you've put in two prima face opposing theories and presented each individually with no link. Surely there's some connection if they're both true?
Both "Sungai Melayu" and "Melayu Kingdom" include the word "Melayu". They are not explanations for the origin of the word Melayu. The Tamil theory is actually an explanation for the word Melayu, and the only one there, although I suppose the removed Malayadvipa could be another origin (or perhaps also based off the Tamil).
Tagging "archipelago" or "race" as an additional word to "Malay", or adding "Federation of" does not make Malay a root word, as these aren't new words. They're two words put together. You said in your above point about Malayadvipa that the sources didn't explicitly link it to the etymology of the word Malaysia. Do your sources for these do so?
Austronesian isn't exactly a replacement for the idea of a Malay race. The Malay race was part of a racial division of people, based mostly off skin colour. Ethnolinguistic classifications, like Austronesian, work off far more evidence, and provide a more detailed examination of origin. These classifications are actually useful for history, unlike the racial ones.
I didn't mention it, but the articles you placed as main articles don't fit that usage. Neither is an article focused on a more detailed discussion of the etymology of Malaysia. CMD (talk) 20:08, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Opposing theories exist in many articles, i don't see why we need to push forward one theory and discard the others. After all, they are just theories. Considering this theory "Malaya+Si", in my POV, it is illogical to assume that the 19th century term "Malaysia" was derived from the term "Malaya", as "Malaya" only established as the name of a country in the early 20th century, via Frank Swettenham's British Malaya (1906).
  • "Melayu" in Malay means "to flow", which explains the naming of Melayu river. It is common for people in Malay world to be known by the name of the river on which they settled. i.e. Sungai Brunei-Brunei Sultanate-Orang Brunei, Sungai Pahang-Pahang Sultanate-Orang Pahang, Sungai Perak-Perak Sultanate-Orang Perak. The section is for the etymology of Malaysia, i think its enough to include the origin of the word 'Melayu' itself, not to go deeper into etymological root.
  • Both terms, Malaysia and Malay archipelago were derived from the european understanding of the concept of Malay race which in turn derived from the word Malay. I think thats pretty simple to understand. The inclusion of federation of Malaya was merely to explain the historical evolution of terms for Malay peninsular until it formed Malaysia.
  • Malay race wasn't exactly a encompass the entire Austronesians, but it was the only term best representing the Austronesians in the past.
  • As i mentioned earlier, etymological root of Melayu can be best explained in details not here, but in other articles that deserve it more, which i think the ethnic Malays article. The same thing was done to article Russia where Rus' people was placed as main article. The same goes to Malay peninsular, Malaysian federation was undoubtedly originates from the federation of Malay states in the peninsular, before its expansion. The evolution of terms for Malay peninsular from the past, does relate with the naming of Malaysia.Ø:G (talk) 01:07, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
You can present opposing points of view, but not with such disconnect and absolutely no acknowledgement of that opposition. What is the quote from your source where it describes "sia". Does it enlighten?
The point is you've portrayed Melayu river and the Melayu kingdom as opposing theories to the Tamil root when they are completely different topics. Two, that of the river and the kingdom, are not about the origin of the name Melayu, instead they are about how the name Melayu was first used in the area (and quite frankly the Kingdom could've been named after the river, or vice versa). The Tamil theory is about the origin of the word Melayu. Different topics.
"Malay race" isn't a derived word, it's exactly the same word functioning as an adjective. It's in reference to the word, not an evolution of it. Malaysia on the other hand, is a completely new word. It's derivation from Malay is not necessarily related to other uses of the word Malay.
Malaya is a relevant word to Malaysia, but the various apendages in formal names, the "states" from "Malay states", the "Federation of" from "Federation of Malaya", are irrelevant to the etymology of Malaysia. They're political designations. CMD (talk) 01:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
  • So i suppose we have to connect them then. Here is my source concerning "-sia". "‘’The name was devised in the early 19th century by British geographers for the Malayan Archipelago as a whole, with -sia added to Malay to form a classical-style name that happened to suggests the archipelago’s location in southeastern Asia." .
  • Sungai Melayu and Melayu kingdom are the possible origins where the word Melayu was derived, while "Malai" and "Ur" may also the possible origin of the word "Melayu", but in linguistic side. Both are in fact talking about origins, unless I'm talking about "etymology" here, then it would be a different matter.
  • You still don't get it about this "Malay race". Why is it so hard for you to understand?. Its not about the words, but more on the concept of it which led to the derivations of various terminologies such as Malay archipelago and Malaysia itself. The concept of "Malay race" here is the understanding that all natives of Maritime Southeast Asia are of the same racial stock called "Malay". This was thought to have been first coined by Raffles when he remarked in the early 19th century; "i cannot but consider the Malayu nation as one people, speaking one language, though spread over so wide a space, preserving their character and customs, in all maritime states lying between Sulu Seas and the Southern Oceans." Since 1824, the term was popularised and commonly accepted. As a result, in 19th century, european scholars began naming the geographical area where this Malay stock live after their name; "Malay", thus we have the terms "Malay archipelago" and "Malaysia" here, in referring to modern "Maritime Southeast Asia".
  • Malay States and Federation of Malaya are political designations as the Malaya and Malaysia themselves. They serve the purpose to explain the evolution of terms used to refer to Malay peninsular. They are merely for additional info and of course not directly related the discussion on the etymology of Malaysia.Ø:G (talk) 06:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay, so it's in reference to the original name, rather than the change from Malaya to Malaysia. That's a possible difference.
The shift of a word between regions and applications is different from the creation of the word. Presumably the Tamil theory applies to the naming of the river and/or kingdom.
The term "Malay race" isn't important. What's important was the designation as the people as Malay (be it the wider race of the more limited ethnic group). The generalisation to the whole are wouldn't require them all to be Malay.
Maritime Souteast Asia is the combination of the archipelago and the Peninsular, both the 'Malay' areas of old. However again, the important point here is the word "Malay", not any of the other derivatives (unless perhaps "archipelago" or "peninsular" or "race" somehow evolved into the "sia" suffix, which I doubt).
The terms didn't refer to the peninsular, but to various political bodies on it. They should be covered in the history section, not included as a distraction in Etymology. CMD (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

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