User talk:PamD

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If you leave a new message on this page, I will reply on this page unless you ask me to reply elsewhere.
20:09 Thursday 29 January 2015 - - - - WELCOME TO MY TALK PAGE

Please click "New section" above to leave any new message, and please sign your message (just type ~~~~).

If you leave a message here, I will reply here unless you ask me to reply elsewhere, to make discussions easier to read.
If you reply to a message here, please indent (start the line with ":") and sign your message.
If you are discussing any particular page, please provide a link to it - it makes life easier for me and anyone else seeing this page.

Thanks. PamD

Note to self - 4 August[edit]

Time to remove any still-unsourced BLP content from Uncredited background singer - givng 2 weeks from today's {{cn}} tagging. PamD 14:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Manchester Village Spartans RUFC[edit]

Thanks for your help/corrections for the new page for the Village Spartans.

Can bother you to check the new content to make sure it's all ok? I've tried to uploadthe club logo but it wont let me - any chance you could help me out here? a Thumbnail of is or the larger one is at


@Btvs4232: (Don't forget to sign any talk post pages by typing ~~~~) - I've uploaded the logo (you have to copy it to your own computer and then upload it using the "Upload file" link on the left of the page), and tweaked the page quite a bit. I've used the standard template at {{Infobox rugby team}}, copying the usage from Bristol Bisons. There's scope to include diagrams of the kit, but I don't know how your rainbow striped arms would work out. I'm sure if you can't figure out how to do it you could find someone at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union who could help. Good luck. PamD 18:14, 22 July 2014 (UTC)


The section "Reception and Controversy" on is a stub though (talk) 07:52, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@ But that's no reason to label the whole article as a stub. Add {{empty section}} (as I've done) or {{expand section}}. There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia but it's an interesting journey. Happy editing! PamD 09:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Slovakia (disambiguation) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Slovakia (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slovakia (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:23, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Many Thanks[edit]

Thank you for your patient notes. As you can tell, I am beginning to enter the world of reviewing new articles. Your instruction and intention is well-received. I will re-read the guidelines for reviewing new articles and stick with the backlog of older articles that already have been tagged. Thank you again.

Regards, bpage (talk) 13:45, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Signature examples[edit]

Greetings! I am sending this to everyone who has posted to the talk page for WP:Smurrayinchester's signature tutorial, has a customized signature, and appears to be still active. I have created a section for real-life signature examples and I'm soliciting a few more contributions to that section. If you would like to add your signature, simply edit the new section and sign it. Have a nice day!   Mandruss |talk  01:53, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2014[edit]

Since it was discovered,gold has evoked many emotions, the foremost of which is greed. When this precious metal was discovered in South Africa it was no different, and countless men have risked all trying to get their hands on it...legally or otherwise. The need to protect the gold on it's journey from deep within the bowels of the earth to bank vaults and jewellers' workshops was, and is, is paramount importance. Mark Corby was one of the men employed in the endeavour and his book takes you behind the scenes to meet the colourful characters who spent their days guarding it, the men from a myriad of tribes and cultures who mined it, the people who tried to steal it, and the people who controlled all. Mark's stories form an integral part of the South African mining industry, culture and history. Note to Editor: This is the back cover of the book I have authored - the 'bot' found it on scrib and I really don't understand why I cannot post the article??? Markcorby (talk) 11:05, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


I make apologies in advance as I am really not sure how this all works! I have submitted text but apparently it needs permissions or something. I am the author and copyright holder of the text.

Could you please kindly explain what I have done wrong or not yet done.

Many thanks.Markcorby (talk) 11:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Hallo Mark, and Welcome to Wikipedia. (I've taken the liberty of moving your signature to the end of your words, as it had got into the midst of the last couple of lines)
There are various problems here:
  1. For some reason you were trying to edit my personal User Page. It's "semi-protected" so that it can't be edited by anonymous or very new editors - in fact there's no reason for anyone but me ever to edit it. I don't know why you were trying to edit it, but it was the wrong place for you to be editing. The semiprotection, set up against vandalism, has prevented an accidental edit.
  2. You shouldn't be creating an article about your own book. Please read WP:COI. If your book is reviewed in "Reliable sources" (Newspapers etc, not just blogs), wins a recognised award, or otherwise becomes "notable" (see WP:Notability (books)), then you should start an article as a WP:DRAFT and ask someone else to review it before it becomes an official article. Or wait for someone else to create the article because they know about the book and think it worthy of an article (though if they can't show evidence of "Notability" it will probably be deleted). Not every book which has been published is appropriate to have a Wikipedia article.
Ah, going to your talk page to notify you of this reply I see that you've already created a draft article with this text. I've still no idea how you came to be trying to add it to my personal user page! PamD 12:46, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you for answering a few questions on my talk page when I was on my wikibreak. Your help is appreciated! A2 17:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Request for a review[edit]

I understand that you have a lot of experience in reviewing articles. You helped me to understand that it was not required to 'double tag' a new article. Thank you. I have continued to review articles, mostly from the oldest end of the list. You suggested that I take my time and not hurry through the review process. I have reviewed an article and have tagged it for deletion. I spent quite a bit of time assessing the references and found them to prove that the subject of the article is not notable. I am asking you review the article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Jarvis (author). We can't seem to reach a consensus. bpage (talk) 13:49, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

@Bfpage: I haven't nominated many articles for AfD, and would usually go for PROD first - takes up less of everyone's time. It's also generally better to save other editors' time by being succinct. In this case I think I might have nominated for PROD with the rationale "Non-notable: nothing to indicate that he passes WP:AUTHOR or WP:GNG". The first of those is part of WP:CREATIVE, a general listing of what creative people need to do to be considered notable; the second is the General Notability Guidelines. There seems nothing here to indicate that he passes either. (If you want to record your researches, you could add them to the article's talk page - though that does have the disadvantage that if the article is deleted the talk page goes too, so the comments are lost, whereas AfD discussions stay around forever, which I suppose is an argument for putting all your evidence there, useful if the article is ever re-created and needs to go to AfD again ... but a summarising first sentence would be appreciated by those who don't want to read further.) With PROD, if neither the original author nor anyone else bothers to challenge it within the one week allowed, the article is likely to be deleted if the first admin who looks at it after that week agrees with your rationale. AfD comes to the attention of many more people, and can drag on.
I'm not sure why you say "We can't seem to reach a consensus": one other editor has said "delete", and another has pointed out that the fact that you nominated it for deletion counts as your "!vote" for deletion, so you don't need to say so again. No-one much has joined in the discussion because ... well, perhaps because the man seems inherently non-notable! I've added my "!vote" (read as "not a vote", since AfD closers are supposed to look at strength of policy-based arguments, not just numbers). PamD 14:34, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


PamD, I have no problem with maintaining inaccurate redirects (you just deleted my request to delete it), but is it sensible? The page was created by a new user who got stomped on by some uncivil editors with the result that after a day's work they gave up and (afaics) have never returned to WP. The small mistake of a preposition in the title is easily explained by its use in the journal of the society. I sent the new editor a welcome (4 months late) but doubt there'll be a response. I also changed all links except one on a talk page. Chris55 (talk) 21:32, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

@Chris55: I just saw it as a "plausible typo" redirect, better kept than deleted. It's so easy to get those little prepositions wrong. I agree that the initial tagging was very badly done (a) one minute after creation, and (b) going too fast to notice that it was thoroughly referenced, just not using inline linked cites. Some new page patrollers do a lot of harm to the encyclopedia by, as you say, "stomping" on new editors. We'll never know just why she didn't come back. Rather than change all the links, you could just have left the redirect to handle them - and the talk page link is another good reason not to delete the redirect, as it would have been broken by deleting the rd. But basically, there's no reason to delete it, it's not doing any harm and will potentially help someone, or avoid the article being re-created accidentally: if one editor could make the mistake, so could another. See Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Common_outcomes#Typos PamD 22:04, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the policy link. There was only 1 link that I changed, no double links, and the new article picked up several red links. Is there a policy on uncivil editors I could follow? Chris55 (talk) 07:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
@Chris55: I've left a note at User_talk:BiH - and their talk page archives show several similar "hang on a minute" comments. There's stuff at Wikipedia:New pages patrol about not adding CSD tags within first few minutes of an article's life, but I can't quickly find anything more general, beyond WP:BITE. PamD 13:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Pam, an excellent tutorial in what to do. It's slightly depressing that exactly one minute after finishing his (I presume) answer to you he repeated the behaviour, including generating a long piece on the user's talk page. And indeed that page shows that another patroller had done exactly the same half an hour before on a similarly named page which the user may not have known what to do with. Looking at his scalp list, it's obvious that someone has to monitor these pages (tho not having the admin privileges to inspect deleted pages it's impossible to tell whether the deletions are justified). But it does seem to me that a speedy deletion request is the wrong weapon. What might be more appropriate would be some type of 'draft' status for new articles that don't meet some obvious requirements. (Personally I think new users should be discouraged from creating a new article before they have experience in editing other articles, but somehow 'new articles' is the only metric WP seems to understand.) Most of these new articles won't have any links pointing to them anyway so nobody will see them. Still I suppose I should look at what's currently promoted before proposing anything. Chris55 (talk) 20:18, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Merger proposal[edit]

As a discussant at Talk:Legends_(TV_series)#The hatnote, I am calling your attention to Talk:Legend_(disambiguation)#Merger_proposal.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:22, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Contribution was constructive[edit]

My contribution to the Yorkshire sports section was constructive because it said Yorkshire City twice & both hyperlinks lead to the same page.

"Football clubs founded in Yorkshire include Barnsley, Bradford City, Doncaster Rovers, York City, Huddersfield Town, Hull City, Leeds United, Middlesbrough, Rotherham United, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday and York City" — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Next time please use an edit summary to explain your edit. PamD 21:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

St. Mary's[edit]

Good catch. I never even thought of looking for the church. I will apologize to the contributor. DGG ( talk ) 17:13, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

@DGG: it was Demiurge1000 who suggested on User talk:Missvain that the church would be notable, which gave me the idea of looking for it. This thing has sprawled around far too many pages in the last few days! PamD 18:19, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


...for your note on my Signpost article. It's a small world- I grew up in Askam (next stop on the railway after Barrow) and did my first two degrees at Lancaster University, so I've passed through Silverdale plenty of times. Beautiful part of the world! J Milburn (talk) 20:23, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

St Mary's cont.[edit]

Dear Ms. Pam D,

Reference: your assistance with the book about St. Mary of the Visitation Church - Huntsville, Alabama,_Alabama)

Thank you so much for your kind research and assistance with this. It was very clever of you to discern the connections and we certainly appreciate the "further reading" reference.

I did not know there was an article about the church and having read it I suspect one of the researchers of the book contributed the article. He is a friend and retired engineer who researched and published the architectural aspects of the building in the history book, I will contact him to verify it. If it is he, I know he will be delighted about your efforts and message.

Interesting- I made the picture of the front of the church used in the article. It was made to document the funeral drapery marking the mourning period when Pope John Paul II passed-away.

I am delighted you discovered a way to reference our important history book; interested history researchers will appreciate your efforts.

p.s - There is a Leeds, Alabama, it's a few miles from our Birmingham!

(@DGG:, @Cullen328: - this is to share my response – Dear DGG and Cullen 328 we also appreciate your guidance and professionalism to keep Wikipedia a reliable source, I'm impressed.) Wikisjt3 (talk) 05:46, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

@DGG:, @Cullen328: - as the above "pings" won't work ... PamD 06:32, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
PamD, I commend you for checking, finding the article, and adding the book as "further reading". I wish I had. The building itself is clearly notable, and adding information about the congregation itself would be a good addition. Drmies resides in Alabama. Perhaps he might take an interest, but that's up to him, of course. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:39, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
  • I'll be glad to have a look later today. Also, Jimbo is on vacation; perhaps he's spending some of it at home and you can ask him to drop by the library or, of course, the church, to take some pictures. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Hmm. I can't really find anything that has any kind of substance, besides the occasional wedding announcement. It's the local papers that have that, maybe, but it will take me some time to dig anything up. I'll give it another try when I'm back on campus; our library may have something. Drmies (talk) 19:48, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Untitled reply re St Mary's[edit]

Dear PamD

Thanks for your nice reply and additional information. I'm amazed at the complexity of Wikipedia. I had no idea about this, the protocols, codes and the ethical aspects. I have a new perspective.

I submitted my picture for the church web site gallery. So it’s possible the copy came from there. Also a possibility; it could have been taken by another photographer about the same time. I may research the source more and if it’s mine and I'm almost sure it is – I would be pleased to have the credit for it.

I’m interested in this Wikipedia world and may attempt another article. Now let me see, what will it be?

“Y’all” keep up the good work as “keepers” of the world’s knowledge!

Best regards, from north Alabama Wikisjt3 (talk) 22:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Ref. St Mary of the Visitation-Huntsville picture in question.[edit]

Dear Ms. PamD I apologize – it is not my picture. I checked my files and, in my picture the church has black mourning drapery. I see the picture in the article does not have the black drapery but in fact appears to have Christmas decorations. The picture is very similar to mine except mine has added text explaining the drapery. I apologize. I’m trying the “pingy” thing you mentioned earlier to also alert @Spyder Monkey of my confusion. I hope I did it right. If not could you kindly alert him? Regards, @Spyder Monkey: Wikisjt3 (talk) 22:43, 19 August 2014 (UTC) Wikisjt3 (talk) 22:48, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Nearly right: you don't need to type "@" within the {{ping}} (as I see you realised). Also, don't start a line with a space, or it ends up formatted weirdly, as yours did. And remember to use a proper section heading! There's a lot to learn about Wikipedia, but I've found it really interesting over the years. Good luck. Glad we've cleared up about the photo: I suppose if there's one viewpoint from which the church looks at its best, there will be a lot of photos taken from that point which look pretty similar! PamD 22:51, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Hit By Lightning[edit]

I nominated article for AfD. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hit By Lightning  SmileBlueJay97  talk  09:37, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

@SmileBlueJay97: So I see: I see also that one of our more aggressive fellow editors is involved. I won't be getting involved in the discussion: yes, it's allowing incivility to win, but it's not worth my stress levels the day before taking a wikibreak. Good luck. PamD 15:03, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
To be honest, until I'd linked all the names and found them going blue, I was quite expecting this to be some film-school production: the stub as written gave no evidence of any sort of notability. If they'd all been redlinks I'd have tagged it for CSD under "made up"! PamD 15:05, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Enjoy your break! Take a chance to read the points I've raised at the AfD discussion to increase your competence for when you return. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:02, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


This response from you was archived pretty quickly by Boleyn. I've no idea why, especially since you asked a question yourself, but thanks for trying anyway. I will mull over how best to treat all of the 306. It might be that a list would be the best temporary solution, with potted bios for each of them. As, if and when, entries in that list might be linked to specific biographical articles. we already have some, of course, eg: for Harry Farr. - Sitush (talk) 00:36, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Rose Ann(e) McGreevy biographical entries[edit]

Hi PamD, thank you so much for helping with this project being of a standard to be published. I am already in a bit of a spin about putting and "e" on her middle name..... and the fact that published material about Rose might have Ann either spelt differently or not included in the reference to Rose McGreevy.

I have just tried to edit her name in the only existing mention of Rose in Wikipedia in the article "Gay Star and Upstart" as well as my first attempt at an edit by including her then incorrectly spelt name in "List of Australian Artists" which I have subsequently attempted to edit with the deletion of the "e" that will break the link the the now queried "Rose Anne McGreevy" entry. Phew!

Anyway I am wondering if the most functional approach to all this is to have the disputed "Rose Anne McGreevy" page deleted and I go back to establishing the article again without the middle name in the heading..... and any subsequent links without the middle name. Thanks for reading all this Zaftiglet (talk) 02:28, 27 October 2014 (UTC)zaftiglet

@Zaftiglet: Don't worry. Wikipedia has a "move" facility and another editor has moved the article to the right spelling. This automatically creates a "redirect" from the former title, so no links are broken. When I'm on a real computer next I'll also make a redirect from the form without middle name - can't do on mobile. Several sources seem to use "Anne" - I don't know whether she changed it or they were just wrong!
The article is still a bit thin on sources to show notability. Were her works reviewed in any national newspapers or magazines? Not necessarily online: references to old hardcopy reviews are fine. Also, you have not yet contributed to the AfD discussion, only its talk page-but your coments there should be about Rose's notability, not about creating a memorial article for her widow etc. See WP:NOTAMEMORIAL or something -can't easily check on mobile. PamD 05:53, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
@Zaftiglet: OK, I have made that redirect, so she's findable on all reasonable variations - Anne, Ann, no middle name.
The article would be improved if there was a photo of Rose and/or of one of her works. There are copyright problems, especially with photos of works, but if you know someone who has themselves taken a photo of Rose which they would be happy to make freely available for use elsewhere with attribution to themselves via links, they could upload it to Wikipedia and you or they or another editor could add it to the article. It's much easier in copyright terms if it's the person who took the photo who uploads it, as "own work". PamD 08:39, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
@PamD: Thanks for all your help. On wednesday I will be sharing this project with many of Rose's colleagues, friends and family. I have good reason to believe that there will be much more information, images and other media that will not incur copyright claims. As far as I am aware it is OK to use content from Rose's blog I will find some pics of Rose and will work out how to put them into the sandbox Zaftiglet (talk) 13:01, 27 October 2014 (UTC)zaftiglet
@Zaftiglet: If you feel that Rose would have appreciated having a Wikipedia article about her, then please encourage people you meet on Wednesday not just to enhance this article but to join us in creating and improving articles about other topics - perhaps notable Australian women artists, or Ulster University alumnae, or whatever else catches their imagination - people, places, things, ideas. Some people are worried that there is a gender gap amongst Wikipedia editors and also in its content, with under-representation of women as subjects, and under-representation of women among the editors and thus perhaps under-representation of topics which are more of interest to women than men. Me, I just edit randomly, though I suppose articles on women tend to catch my interest more readily. You can see the range of articles I've started if you look at my user page, along with why I started each one: a motley range of topics and rationales.
Unfortunately we can't just add images on the basis of "As far as I am aware it is OK to use content from Rose's blog". There are laws about copyright, her copyright will now be owned by someone else according to her will, and Wikipedia is scrupulous about not infringing copyright (eg I can't add a photo of an illustrated pub sign because it's the copyright of the artist who painted it). But a photo of Rose, uploaded by the photographer, would be problem-free. For photos of her works, someone would need to sort out the copyright position: there's her copyright in the subject matter of the photo, as well as the photographer's rights - it's not an area where I've got any expertise. PamD 13:29, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
@PamD: What you have suggested is what I had in mind as well. I began this article after sharing initial conversations with Rose's partner and mutual friends at Articulate Project Space gallery where she had been exhibiting. I have alerted outside of Wikipedia regarding images and text attribution and copyright. Let's see how this grows Zaftiglet (talk) 23:50, 27 October 2014 (UTC)zaftiglet
@Zaftiglet: Sounds good. I hope you manage to introduce a whole new group of people to Wikipedia editing: some of them are sure to enjoy it once they get past the initial stage where it's all just a mass of rules and jargon. It can get quite addictive. Good luck. PamD 23:58, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Davis Strait Stub[edit]

Thank you for your consideration in helping me learn more about Wikipedia! I must have misread the stub article, (I might have then gone around the wiki spamming in stub templates) but i went back, and you're right. Davis Strait isn't a stub. It might require more info, but it is not a stub. Thank you for your help! P.S you may want to consider using nicer language to new people on the wiki. Just a thought. I never meant to "waste the time of other editors by adding inappropriate tags." BigRift (talk) 03:21, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

@BigRift: I'm sorry that you thought I didn't word it nicely enough. I never suggested you were doing anything wrong deliberately, but asked you politely to take more care. PamD 06:25, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Category rename[edit]

Please see my proposal to rename Category:Slovakian reality television series to Category:Slovak reality television series Hugo999 (talk) 11:11, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

@Hugo999: Thanks for letting me know - no problem, I obviously got it wrong and should have checked the subdivisions of Category:Television series by country to get the terminology. Thanks for fixing it. Not my area of expertise (or even interest!): I must have had a burst of enthusiasm after stub-sorting Czechia-Slovakia's Got Talent and felt the urge to create categories for it. PamD 12:55, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Now Available (November 2014)[edit]

Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL OWL says sign up today :)

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for, free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for:

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VisualEditor newsletter—November 2014[edit]

Screenshot on an iPad, showing how to switch from one editor to the other
Did you know?

VisualEditor is also available on the mobile version of Wikipedia. Login and click the pencil icon to open the page you want to edit. Click on the gear-shaped settings in the upper-right corner, to pick which editor to use. Choose "Edit" to use VisualEditor, or "Edit source" to use the wikitext editor.

It will remember whether you used wikitext or VisualEditor, and use the same editor the next time you edit an article.

The user guide has information about how to use VisualEditor. Not all features are available in Mobile Web.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and requests, and worked on support for editing tables and for using non-Latin languages. Their weekly updates are posted on Informal notes from the recent quarterly review were posted on Meta.

Recent improvements[edit]

The French Wikipedia should see better search results for links, templates, and media because the new search engine was turned on for everyone there. This change is expected at the Chinese and German Wikipedias next week, and eventually at the English Wikipedia.

The "pawn" system has been mostly replaced. Bugs in this system sometimes added a chess pawn character to wikitext. The replacement provides better support for non-Latin languages, with full support hopefully coming soon.

VisualEditor is now provided to editors who use Internet Explorer 10 or 11 on desktop and mobile devices. Internet Explorer 9 is not supported yet.

The keyboard shortcuts for items in the toolbar's menus are now shown in the menus. VisualEditor will replace the existing design with a new theme from the User Experience / Design group. The appearance of dialogs has already changed in one Mobile version. The appearance on desktops will change soon. (You can see a developer preview of the old "Apex" design and the new "MediaWiki" theme which will replace it.)

Several bugs were fixed for internal and external links. Improvements to MediaWiki's search solved an annoying problem: If you searched for the full name of the page or file that you wanted to link, sometimes the search program could not find the page. A link inside a template, to a local page that does not exist, will now show red, exactly as it does when reading the page. Due to a error, for about two weeks this also affected all external links inside templates. Opening an auto-numbered link node like [1] with the keyboard used to open the wrong link tool. These problems have all been fixed.


The tool for quickly editing TemplateData will be deployed to all Wikimedia Foundation wikis on Thursday, 6 November.  This tool is already available on the biggest 40 Wikipedias, and now all wikis will have access to it. This tool makes it easier to add TemplateData to the template's documentation.  When the tool is enabled, it will add a button above every editing window for a template (including documentation subpages). To use it, edit the template or a subpage, and then click the "Manage TemplateData" button at the top.  Read the help page for TemplateData. You can test the TemplateData editor in a sandbox at Remember that TemplateData should be placed either on a documentation subpage or on the template page itself. Only one block of TemplateData will be used per template.

You can use the new autovalue setting to pre-load a value into a template. This can be used to substitute dates, as in this example, or to add the most common response for that parameter. The autovalue can be easily overridden by the editor, by typing something else in the field.

In TemplateData, you may define a parameter as "required". The template dialog in VisualEditor will warn editors if they leave a "required" parameter empty, and they will not be able to delete that parameter. If the template can function without this parameter, then please mark it as "suggested" or "optional" in TemplateData instead.

Looking ahead[edit]

Basic support for inserting tables and changing the number of rows and columns in tables will appear next Wednesday. Advanced features, like dragging columns to different places, will be possible later. The VisualEditor team plans to add auto-fill features for citations soon. To help editors find the most important items more quickly, some items in the toolbar menus will be hidden behind a "More" item, such as "underlining" in the styling menu. The appearance of the media search dialog will improve, to make picking between possible images easier and more visual. The team posts details about planned work on the VisualEditor roadmap.

The user guide will be updated soon to add information about editing tables. The translations for most languages except Spanish, French, and Dutch are significantly out of date. Please help complete the current translations for users who speak your language. Talk to us if you need help exporting the translated guide to your wiki.

You can influence VisualEditor's design. Tell the VisualEditor team what you want changed during the office hours via IRC. The next sessions are on Wednesday, 19 November at 16:00 UTC and on Wednesday 7 January 2015 at 22:00 UTC. You can also share your ideas at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.

Also, user experience researcher Abbey Ripstra is looking for editors to show her how they edit Wikipedia. Please sign up for the research program if you would like to hear about opportunities.

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Whatamidoing (WMF) 20:41, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

BNA access[edit]

Hello, PamD. Please check your email – you've got mail!
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Chris Troutman (talk) 16:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)


Woops, sorry about that. I must have missed the stub tag. Thanks   Countered |talk  18:12, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2014[edit]

Delivered November 2014 by MediaWiki message delivery.
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02:12, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


Thanks a lot for the tip Pam, cheers! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucasmatti (talkcontribs)

Happy New Year![edit]

Fuochi d'artificio.gif

Dear PamD,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--FWiW Bzuk (talk)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

Stub sorting[edit]

Hi. You recently recategorized Uezu House with Template:Japan-struct-stub. While this building is in Japan, it is not of Japanese origin i.e. a Japanese building. This just made me curious about categorizing buildings with similar circumstances. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 15:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sturmgewehr88: I think "Japanese" in the stub label can be taken as the first of the senses on the dab page Japanese: "Something from or related to Japan,...". Being built in Japan relates it to Japan. The "structure" stubs are a child category of "geo" stubs, ie buildings and structures considered as geography, place-dependent, rather than as part of a culture. Does that help, I wonder? If there was a stub tag for "Ryukyuan culture" it would be appropriate to use it too, but there isn't. I'll add that category, though as it seems perhaps more useful than the existing "Category:Ryukyuan Kingdom". PamD 15:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
The building was built before Japan controlled the island, so I wouldn't say "built in Japan". Territorial changes make things confusing, but I don't think a Ryukyuan building becomes a Japanese building just because Japan owns it currently. But the new category is very good. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 15:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess a better example of this would be a British fort in India. Is it Indian because it's in India and India controls it currently, or is it British because it was built by the British and Britain controlled India in the past? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 15:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
@Sturmgwehr88: The building exists in a place which is currently Japan, India, etc, and stubs are pretty broad-brush. But categories are much more precise and can reflect national military history, national architectural styles or whatever. There are similar issues about someone of nationality X who's an established academic in country Y. Where there are multiple relevant stub tags, they can all be added, but there doesn't seem anything else here. PamD 16:37, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For being such a nice guy on talk pages. Clubjustin4 (talk) 12:43, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

@Clubjustin4: Thanks. I try to be helpful while avoiding aggravation! PamD 12:48, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 9[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 9, November-December 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • New donations, including real-paper-and-everything books, e-books, science journal databases, and more
  • New TWL coordinators, conference news, a new open-access journal database, summary of library-related WMF grants, and more
  • Spotlight: "Global Impact: The Wikipedia Library and Persian Wikipedia" - a Persian Wikipedia editor talks about their experiences with database access in Iran, writing on the Persian project and the JSTOR partnership

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - January 2015[edit]

Delivered January 2015 by MediaWiki message delivery.
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01:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 January 2015[edit]

Nomination of Cold start (automotive) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cold start (automotive) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cold start (automotive) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Rezin (talk) 22:15, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 January 2015[edit]


Please leave the "discussion ongoing" tag on the page until the discussion is closed. The discussion is still ongoing. Thank you (talk) 21:15, 16 January 2015 (UTC) Please do not remove the discussion tag until a consensus is reached and the discussion is closed. Thank you. (talk) 21:17, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

No, there is no relevant discussion. PamD 21:21, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 January 2015[edit]

Untitled Trivikram Srinivas project[edit]

Hi. Someone moved the page to S/O Satya Moorti and you moved it to Son of Satya Moorti. No reliable source is found and thus i reverted those changes. But the edit history has been erased completely until the last edit. Please help me. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:53, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

I Googled and found several hits for the title, though none of them looked particularly reliable - not my specialist area - but went along with the editor who'd given it a name, just expanding it to what seemed to be the full form. Yes, perhaps I should just have moved it back to the "Untitled project" title, apologies. But cut and paste moves are not the way to do it, so I've reverted your changes. See Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Technical_requests#Requests_to_revert_undiscussed_moves. Apologies for an early-morning misjudgement. PamD 09:21, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
@Pavanjandhyala: As you've seen, an admin has moved the article back to its original title. I'm sorry that I made matters worse, after another editor's initial move, by my attempt to tidy it up by moving to a fuller version of the unreliably-sourced title instead of reverting the move. But you should not have tried to fix things with a "copy-and-paste" move: that is almost never the solution to anything in the encyclopedia, unless done in limited circumstances with great care and complicated record-keeping so that the history of the article is not lost. I think all is now well. I find it very strange that a film due for release next month hasn't yet got a title, but I guess it's all good for publicity, as it keeps the fans talking about the film/project! PamD 16:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I just wanted to restore but in the process made this mistake. Regarding the last lines, The film is almost complete but is still untitled. It is expected to be a summer release and is not yet titled. I purposefully left that release date as 5 February 2015 as i want the makers to release a press note that the film would be a summer 2015 release. If you can observe Trivikram's past works, you may not fell strange that the film is not yet titled though filming is almost complete. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Inter-American Journal of Philosophy[edit]

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Michael Rizzello[edit]

Hello and thanks for what you added to the Michael Rizzello article - that article is certainly outside of what I would normally edit but last summer on a beautiful sunny day when I was in London for a niece's wedding , a group of us were walking down Oxford Street and I was struck by a sculpture on the side of a striking looking building - to my eye it looked 'Art Deco', 1930s ish and so I did a bit of 'research' on it - turned out I was very wrong , it was rather modern, and designed by someone called Michael Rizzello, so I had a kind of stub article on a subpage for a while and then thought I'd move it to article space , fairly stark as it was, and I'm glad I did now , because you've added to it, and I think his work is good really - I moved from Yorkshire aged 2 so unfortunately I don't really know the area but I've stayed loyal in sporting allegiances at least! Sayerslle (talk) 15:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG I am not a beginner, so do not patronise, if you don't mind. I have started these articles. If you would like to add to them with relevant info, then you can. Please feel free to make helpful additions - but negative deductions are not helpful. Jgrantduff (talk) 23:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@Jgrantduff: "... not a beginner ...": in that case I wonder why you create unsourced, unlinked, stubs, including those about living people? PamD 23:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)