User talk:Paul venter

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Aaron Swartz on Wikipedia[edit]

Even if all the formatters quit the project tomorrow, Wikipedia would still be immensely valuable. For the most part, people read Wikipedia because it has the information they need, not because it has a consistent look. It certainly wouldn’t be as nice without one, but the people who (like me) care about such things would probably step up to take the place of those who had left. The formatters aid the contributors, not the other way around.

But Wikipedia’s openness isn’t a mistake; it’s the source of its success. A dedicated community solves problems that official leaders wouldn’t even know were there. Meanwhile, their volunteerism largely eliminates infighting about who gets to be what. Instead, tasks get done by the people who genuinely want to do them, who just happen to be the people who care enough to do them right. Wikipedia’s biggest problems have come when it’s strayed from this path, when it’s given some people official titles and specified tasks. Whenever that happens, real work slows down and squabbling speeds up. But it’s an easy mistake to make, so it gets made again and again.

—Aaron Swartz Who Writes Wikipedia

Fresh start[edit]

In an effort to stave off being stalked and harassed, I have since 2006 used the sockpuppets Roxithro (talk), Raasgat (talk), Rotational (talk), Androstachys (talk) and Tekwani (talk). I am returning to my original account, renouncing all others, and hope to work in a collegiate spirit with my fellow editors. Paul venter (talk) 05:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Frederick Timpson I'Ons[edit]

Hello Paul venter, I just thought I'd let you know that I saw your article Frederick Timpson I'Ons in the New Articles list-- You did an excellent job uploading an image to the article.However, I think the article seems to contain a few errors: the references in the article do not follow Wikipedia guidelines. There is a tutorial on formatting citations at Wikipedia:Referencing.It would be great if you could also upload a picture for the related article Makana (prophet).

Kind regards and happy editing! Jipinghe (talk) 19:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Eduard Pechuël-Loesche[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Eduard Pechuël-Loesche at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Stemonitis (talk) 18:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of MikroKopter[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article MikroKopter has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

no indication of meeting notability guidelines at WP:ORG. The references given are either not independent or do not mention the company.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. noq (talk) 12:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of MikroKopter for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article MikroKopter is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MikroKopter until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. noq (talk) 13:37, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

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Petrarch's De remediis utriusque fortunae[edit]

"George Bush referenced the Petrarchan form in his 2004 State of the Union Address." Really? Citation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.198.136.240 (talk) 16:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Not my edit!! Paul venter (talk) 10:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Botanist template[edit]

Please see my reply at Template talk:Botanist#More styling issues. Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 19:21, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Pelargonium punctatum00.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Hieronymus Harder[edit]

Hello Paul! I've been following your edits at Binomial nomenclature. I'm hoping you are adding inline sources to support your individual points, so they can stay in the article. I was waiting until you finish your Hieronymus Harder article to make any changes (soon?), but in the Binomial article the Hieronymus info belongs in the history section (if it is sourced) instead of the lead. I'm very curious what your sources say about 1) whether he always used a binomial or only partially, and 2) how much, if any, he talked about a system of binomial nomenclature as proposed for use by everyone. Thanks for the info! --Tom Hulse (talk) 10:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tom, No, I don't have any sources in which Harder made notes specifically about Binomial nomenclature, but only index pages from his Herbarium vivum which clearly display his use of the idea. From the image I posted at Binomial nomenclature it should be apparent that he didn't always stick to a binomial style. "The introduction of this system of naming species is credited to Linnaeus" in the lead should certainly be balanced by a reference to earlier use of the idea by Harder and the Bauhins and others, lest a reader get the notion that Linnaeus got the idea straight from heaven rather than the tweaking of an idea that goes back much further in time! Go well Paul venter (talk) 13:53, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I sure do understand wanting to get the word out more about this great guy. His work is amazing, and I'm really enjoying the info you are adding at the other two articles, but the trouble here is that Wikipedia is about what the sources say, not about what may be true. Even if there were sources, we would still have to be careful not to give him credit for more than should apply. For instance, he did not publish a description of how to use a system of binomial nomenclature, nor is he even using a system of binomial nomenclature in his herbarium vivum, just a mix of different-sized names (although many are inividually binomials). We don't have any evidence that Linnaeus was influenced by him (we do have evidence that L. was influence by the Bauhins), nor that anyone was. Using a mixed system including binomials was not new or unique at his time, certainly less notable than the Bauhins who themselves only merit a minor mention in the History section. So I'm sorry I'll have to drastically reduce your addition to just a part of a sentence in the History section, and remove the image. They're just not that relevant to the article, I hope you understand. Best regards. --Tom Hulse (talk) 08:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Paul I removed the unsourced material per WP:NOR & WP:RS. In the History section, the article currently says "The Bauhins... took some important steps towards the binomial system", and I would really like add info here about Hieronymus Harder, but I can't without a reliable source, so please let me know if you find anything. --Tom Hulse (talk) 09:07, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I've been extremely careful about my additions and did not make any unwarranted assumptions about Harder's contribution to binomial nomenclature - I simply posted the image which clearly shows that Harder made use of the binomial idea. His early use of binomialism is extremely relevant to the article, so that I am reverting the edit and hope that a wider group of editors may become involved in the discussion before deciding that Harder is really irrelevant. cheers Paul venter (talk) 09:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Discussion moved by Paul to Talk:Binomial nomenclature#Hieronymus Harder --Tom Hulse (talk) 10:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Robert Goldston01.jpg[edit]

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Aussenkehr Desert Extreme Trail Run[edit]

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Gabriel Fauré[edit]

Thank you for your passing remarks on the article talk page. I have replaced the Saint-Saëns image, and for reasons already discussed at PR am reluctant to replace the famous Sargent image at the top. But I cannot see which other two images you object to. I know that the MoS says "It is often preferable to place images of faces so that the face or eyes look toward the text. However, images of people need not be reversed simply to make the person's face point the text", but I can't find the two other images you refer to as, in your words, "happily peering away from the text". Grateful for your elucidation. Tim riley (talk) 20:36, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Immunology[edit]

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WikiThanks[edit]

WikiThanks

In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.7.19 (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

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An award for you[edit]

A Barnstar!
Golden Wiki Award

Thanks for your recent contributions! 67.80.64.128 (talk) 01:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

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Jean Ruel[edit]

Hi there, I just wanted to thank you for the creation of the Jean Ruel (a very interesting man) article in the English wikipedia. I have some personal bibliography on him so I will edit it in some days ok? Maybe I can contribute. There is also a Spanish and a French article of Jean Ruel I think, they should be associated. We talk in some days.--Schuylkill52 (talk) 10:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Download sites[edit]

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Re: "Download sites"[edit]

Hi Paul. Thanks for your note regarding your article "Download sites". I took a look at it and as it was, I agree the deletion was appropriate. However, I can see that it could be useful to have a page listing relevant databases, sites, journals etc, so I have restored it and moved into your userspace here: User:Paul venter/Download sites. I don't recommend re-posting it into the article space as it will most likely be deleted again, but you can keep it in your userspace. You could also talk to the botany wikiproject about making it into a resources subpage of the wikiproject or possibly even writing a subject area database list, such as: List of biodiversity databases, List of neuroscience databases, List of online databases and List of academic databases and search engines. Unfortunately I don't know enough about botany or these websites to know if developing your page into such a list would be appropriate or not so I cannot advise you either way but it's just an idea that you might consider discussing with other editors more knowledgeable about this area and these databases. I noticed that someone has also started collection some links to botanical databases and catalogs here: Outline_of_botany#External_links. Also, in future, if you are starting a new article which you haven't finished and are still actively working on, you would be best to start the article in a sub-page of your userspace (for example, User:Paul venter/Drafts). We give people a lot of leeway with userspace drafts so you would generally be free to work on it in your own time and without having to worry about people interfering with it or nominating it for speedy deletion before you have even finished. Then once you have finished working on it, simply move the page to the main article space. Hope this helps. Cheers, Sarah 06:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

PS Just FYI, I found the name "Download sites" confusing and it really didn't seem to be an appropriate name for an article. Please see the policy on article titles for more information about article titles, but I would suggest that an article listing botanical databases be named something like "List of botany databases". Sarah 06:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

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Edward Julius Detmold[edit]

Just wanted to drop by to say thanks for all your work on Edward Julius Detmold, which I read with fascination. I made a few minor changes (mostly cosmetic) to the article, which I hope don't offend – do feel free to revert any of them if you prefer. I've also added Authority Control links and Persondata. Thanks again – it's so pleasing to read such a well-written article. — Hebrides (talk) 11:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

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Sophie Darlington[edit]

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Commiphora africana[edit]

Why did you remove the taxobox here? jonkerz ♠talk 05:29, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Did I? I was busy editing the article and must have inadvertently overwritten your contribution. Why did you ignore the "in use" template? Paul venter (talk) 05:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Ah, just an edit conflict. The page was last edited 10 hours before I added the taxobox. jonkerz ♠talk 05:38, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

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WB Macdougall[edit]

Paul

Thanks for creating the William Brown Macdougall Wiki page. Incidentally, Macdougall has no capital 'D" in his name, although the information you have provided is otherwise quite accurate. I wondered where you sourced it from as some of it is not widely documented ?

We have more information regarding WBM if you are interested in adding it. Alternatively, we could add it ourselves although not exactly familiar with how to go about it.

Kind regards G. Jones — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.24.160 (talk) 15:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Hi G Jones, Thank you for your note. Additional material would always be welcome. If you are uncertain of how to go about it you can paste text on this page. For images you would need to create a blog of your own and post the URL on this page, otherwise you would need to email me at paulvent@gmail.com regards, Paul Venter Paul venter (talk) 18:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

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Four glasses puzzle[edit]

See Talk:Four glasses puzzle#Hiding the solution. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Frederick Schoenfeld, Paul venter!

Wikipedia editor Modern.Jewelry.Historian just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Nice article!

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Re: Talk:Four glasses puzzle#Hiding the solution[edit]

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Requested autopatrolled[edit]

I requested the autopatrolled permission for your account. VQuakr (talk) 08:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your kindness! Paul venter (talk) 08:55, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


Autopatrol granted[edit]

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Hi Paul venter, just wanted to let you know that I have added the autopatrolled right to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Mifter (talk) 22:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Interesting[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SummerPhD#blocked_editor Paul venter (talk) 13:44, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Spaces in botanical author abbreviations[edit]

I initially wrote more-or-less what you changed the template to say, but it's not correct. Search [1] for the surname "van Wyk" for example. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Too true - I must have suffered from a mental aberration (momentary I hope). Thanks for picking it up! I notice the author abbreviations are not consistent in their treatment of, for example, "de Winter' and "de Wit", using "De" and "de" in the abbreviations. Is there a reason other than "oops"? Paul venter (talk) 10:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Notice of No Original Research Noticeboard discussion[edit]

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A beer for you![edit]

Export hell seidel steiner.png Hi Paul, Thanks for your contributions to articles on Joseph Storr Lister, Comte Médéric de Vasselot de Régné and others! Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 17:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Why hello David! Most kind of you to notice and comment - your interest in matters forestry is quite unusual. Mine stems from having worked for 5 years for forestry when I was young. Regards Paul venter (talk) 22:23, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

You're most welcome, Paul. I teach at a forestry school and, while I'm not a forester, am interested in forest(ry) policy and history. I was impressed by South Africa's extensive Pinus radiata plantations when I visited several years ago (did not get to the Cape, though)... Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 01:42, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

AN/I notification[edit]

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Rkitko (talk) 00:43, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, of course. This is all dreadfully familiar - your drumming up support from your acolytes, branding your prejudice as consensual and just generally carrying on with your stock-in-trade bullying. When will you ever learn to step back along with your self-satisfied interpretation of the MoS, and leave the constant nit-picking to others? Paul venter (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions![edit]

Maple Leaf Red Stump 3008px.jpg WikiProject Forestry
Thank you on behalf of WikiProject Forestry! We appreciate your contribution(s) and invite you to join us in further improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to forestry. Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions on the project's talk page.

Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 21:59, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Sandfall for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Sandfall is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sandfall until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Mass wasting - cautions[edit]

Please use caution and read WP:RS and WP:Copyvio. In your recent edits to mass wasting here you (inadvertently) left a fragment copied from the source you were using. It was removed by another user, and although obviously an error, it was simply a violation of copyright and we must be very careful about such things. Secondly the source you used, some professor's "lecture notes", fails our referencing requirements. We must use material published in a reliable source. I am well aware that back 7 or 8 years ago WP was much more lax on this and much unreferenced and poorly referenced content remains. Back then "content was king", but now Wikipedia has tighter standards - and "lecture notes" simply are not reliable sources. Please study the guideline pages linked above and use caution. Vsmith (talk) 11:08, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

If I inadvertently left that fragment, why am I getting this entirely gratuitous sermon about stuff I already know? Paul venter (talk) 14:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Fairy circle (Africa)[edit]

I was just wondering if you had a more specific source for the information you added to the article fairy circle (Africa), as in the title of the actual paper that references the information added. Angryapathy (talk) 13:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Helena Scott[edit]

Hi Paul Venter, Before I saw your article on Helena Scott I created an entry on Helena and Harriet Scott. Now there are two similar articles which I think should be one article as they are always referred to together as the Scott sisters. This is why I entitled my version Helena and Harriet Scott. I therefore suggest we move the content you created along with the images and categories into the article with the jointly named title. Do you think this is a good solution? Elara7 (talk) 04:00, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Elara, My first reaction would be to leave both articles as is with a 'See also' note and/or piping in the lead paragraph. Some rabid editor is bound to object in order to do some grandstanding, but I can see no compelling reason to merge the articles. The other way to go may be to do a separate article on Harriet Scott, something which shouldn't be too difficult as the groundwork has already been done. Anyway, whatever we decide is bound to be set aside by a bunch of editors who would claim to know better and also claim to have consensus, so that in the end it doesn't matter. Cheers Paul venter (talk) 06:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi Paul venter, Thanks for your suggestion. I will go ahead and do a separate article on Harriet, which as you said should be easier than merging the two articles. Thanks Elara7 (talk) 23:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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Peer review request[edit]

Hi Paul, I've initiated a peer review request for the List of historic schools of forestry article, and would appreciate your input on ways that it can be improved. Ultimately, I would like to nominate it for Featured List status. Please add any comments or suggestions at this link. Thank you & Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi David, Useful list indeed. After a cursory inspection (I'll return later) the only change I made was lifting the size restriction on the image of Heinrich von Cotta. Regards Paul venter (talk) 14:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Paul. I look forward to learning of any further suggestions for improving the list that you might have. Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Better source request for File:Rita Miljo02.jpg[edit]

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WP:MEDRS[edit]

Discussion transferred to Stroke talk page Paul venter (talk) 08:22, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Request for help regarding a block[edit]

(see discussion here) (Criteria for speedy deletion#G5)

As i have explained at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, I deleted Ecolon on the basis of a block log entry for Androstachys, referring to you as a "community-banned long-term disruptive editor". However, I see no evidence that this is correct. Can you clarify the circumstances that led to the Androstachys account being blocked? If you can, I will consider changing the block log, to prevent the same sort of mistake being made again. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer. The Androstachys account was blocked by Hesperian as a result of long-standing friction with him and Rkitko over interpretations of the MoS and consequent edit-warring. For the exact sequence of events one would have to inspect the history log of Androstachys. Also relevant was the removal by Hesperian to mainspace of about a dozen articles which had been developed by Rotational in his user space (for the history of one such article see here). Paul venter (talk) 14:53, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
This is also relevant. Paul venter (talk) 15:00, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for that information. On the face of it, it seems that the block log entry made by Hesperian is way out of line. However, I have asked Hesperian to comment, and am willing to wait a little while to see if he/she makes any response. Feel free to contact me about this if I don't get back on this within a couple of days, if you wish to. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Hesperian is still, it seems, of the opinion that you were community banned, but since nobody has produced a record of when or where this happened, I don't know whether it is true or not. However, it is evident that you created the article while evading at least one block, and whether the block was based on a ban or not is of little relevance, as the deletion reason "Creation by a banned or blocked user" is still valid. The undeletion of the article took place because the deletion was believed to have been made on the basis of a false impression, but it is now clear that that was not the case. On a different but related issue, your request for undeletion says "Previous nominations of other articles created by user Androstachys were dismissed since the articles were found to be useful, and that being banned or blocked did not automatically mean that work prior to the ban was without merit". However, the policy that pages created by editors evading blocks can be deleted does not depend on lack of "merit" of those pages. It is true that there are some administrators who choose to ignore this particular policy, because they personally disagree with it. My own belief, however, is that the job of an administrator is to administer policy, not to use one's administrative powers to further one's own personal view. No administrator is ever obliged to take action that he or she doesn't personally agree with, but undoing an existing action because of one's own view, even though that view is contrary to policy, is, in my opinion, unacceptable, and so requesting undeletion on such grounds is invalid. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Thomas Robert Soderstrom[edit]

Hello, Paul venter, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Thomas Robert Soderstrom, appears to be directly copied from http://pt.encydia.com/es/Thomas_Robert_Soderstrom. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on Thomas Robert Soderstrom if necessary. MadmanBot (talk) 16:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Eucallipterus tiliae may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s and 1 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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Thank you! Real big brother watching! Paul venter (talk) 11:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Jewellery may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s and 2 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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  • wide variety of sophisticated metalworking techniques, such as [[cloisonné]], [[engraving]], fine {{Granulation (jewellery)|granulation]], and [[filigree]].<ref>Nemet-Nejat, ''Daily Life'', 295–297.</ref>

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  • of the number of species have been as low as 260,<ref name="rahn1998"/> and as high as 979. <ref>[http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Allium "Kew Checklist of Plants"</ref> The [[type species]]

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Thomas Pearson Stokoe00.jpg)[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svg Thanks for uploading File:Thomas Pearson Stokoe00.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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It seems that James is busy with some sort of crusade - I believe to the detriment of WP - and has also deleted Thomas Pearson Stokoe, Johannes Schumacher and Getaway (magazine). Deletions of this sort have come up before here and here. In my opinion the G5 policy is not so much punitive to the erring editor, but rather shoots WP in both feet. The G5 policy should be reviewed to align with WP's oft-stated goal of doing that which is in the best interest of the Encyclopaedia. Paul venter (talk) 19:32, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

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Cer-Vit[edit]

Hi Paul venter. In the Cer-Vit article, as created by Androstachys, which i understand was your account, you have written that it was made by "Owens-Illinois Corning", which is not clear. Was it made by Owens-Illinois and Corning Inc., two separate companies, or by Owens Corning, an offshoot of them both? I'm merely asking so i can send the wlink(s) to the right place (currently the Corning one goes to a disambiguation page). Thanks for your help. Cheers, LindsayHello 13:49, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Don't know how to respond to this[edit]

repeated invocation of my name: "I first touched on it some while back when I pointed out to Sminthopsis84". It sounds as if you are criticizing me for not understanding everything that it is your mind, and, frankly, I find that unpleasant. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:22, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Peter coxhead wrote I'm baffled by your phrase "the plant". What plant? I and Sminthopsis84 have spent time trying to explain that "nettle" doesn't refer to one plant, so how can the primary meaning be "the plant"?. I found this surprising in view of the fact that I had commented to you at the very outset that the article was taking a very narrow view of 'nettle' if it didn't include all the other plants so named across the English-speaking world.. Please do not introduce inflammatory rhetoric where there was none before and also confine this sort of comment to the article's talk page. Paul venter (talk) 22:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe that this sort of thing belongs on the article talk page. Clearly, you and I are unable to communicate. What you've just said about "the plant" and a much earlier discussion when the page was about the genus Urtica still makes no sense to me, but I don't care to engage with someone who uses phrases like inflammatory rhetoric. However, please stop abusing me on the article talk page. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't think the average person would regard my comments as abuse - or abstruse. Paul venter (talk) 23:06, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

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Page move[edit]

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This help request has been answered. If you need more help, place a new {{help me}} request on this page followed by your questions, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

''Cephalotaxus harringtonii redirects to Cephalotaxus harringtonia which is an incorrect name - see http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2709751 The correct name is Cephalotaxus harringtonii Paul venter (talk) 15:50, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done JamesBWatson (talk) 19:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you....Paul venter (talk) 20:20, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Charles de Worms[edit]

Hello. Thank you for creating Charles de Worms. Could you please add references/citations for the page however? Please reply on my talkpage. I am working on his immediate ancestors btw. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:07, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

You added none. I add one a few hours ago. I wonder where you found all this info you added to create the page?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
No idea, but a quick search turns up http://books.google.co.za/books?id=cAUTW-ax-SgC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=Charles+de+Worms&source=bl&ots=S0f--_zwVA&sig=NcNna5DDwZuHtEwutQoIH7ad9Yk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t1hSUs_xDLSb0AWPlIDwCA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ and http://books.google.co.za/books?id=cAUTW-ax-SgC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=Charles+de+Worms&source=bl&ots=S0f--_zwVA&sig=NcNna5DDwZuHtEwutQoIH7ad9Yk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t1hSUs_xDLSb0AWPlIDwCA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Charles%20de%20Worms&f=false Paul venter (talk) 06:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

In use vs Under construction[edit]

Hi. Just to make sure we are on the same page. {{Under construction}} differs from {{in use}}. Since page stayed "in use" for 24 hours I thought something might have gone wrong. Happy editing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:23, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Quite right! It was the "In use" tag which was in place..... Paul venter (talk) 07:37, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
"In use" tag is used in case you want to open the editor and you need something like 1 hour to complete editing. If you need more please use your sandbox and place the "under construction" tag. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:51, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

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Accidental reversion[edit]

Sorry - think I fixed it but I undid an edit of yours by mistake - had a bad minute of clicking on the wrong link. ◊ Antiqueight confer 12:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

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Spirostachys africana[edit]

Dear Paul venter, you created the article Spirostachys africana in the english version from wikipedia. I worte the german article and i´m searching for a picture with a overall view of Spirostachys africana for my article. You upload the earliest Pictures in Commons. Do you maybe have a overall view-picture? Greetings, --M. Krafft (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes - but it involves some searching through slides - so be patient Paul venter (talk) 04:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for your work! I hope you´ll find a picture... --M. Krafft (talk) 19:11, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Good morning! I saw your (maybe new) pictures in the en-Wiki. I put it to Commons, so that i can use it too. Do you´ve found any overall-view-picture from Spirostachys africana? Greetings, --M. Krafft (talk) 08:33, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I found a picture in the Internet an i think it´s yours. Maybe you can upload this with a CC-license? Greetings, --M. Krafft (talk) 10:23, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
No, not mine. Still on holiday for 2 weeks - till then Paul venter (talk) 14:05, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Dear Paul, maybe you´ll find time for searching a photo. I searched in the whole Internet but can´t find a free-licensed picture, so you´re my only chance. In the next days i want to candidate for a good article-award and i think without a picture this will be very hard... Best wishes, --M. Krafft (talk) 17:13, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

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Priscomyzon riniensis[edit]

Hello Paul, I hope you don't mind, but because this new article had not been edited in the last 4 hours, I changed the template at the top. I also slapped in a bunch of headings, but please feel free to change them any way you want to. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 22:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Today I removed the template, but again, feel free to add it back in if youo are going to do a bunch more work on the article. Best wishes to you, Invertzoo (talk) 02:37, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Photos and provenance[edit]

Paul, I've been looking at the photos you've uploaded, and several years ago, you uploaded multiple photos as "GFDL - own work" which clearly are not (for instance, File:Sydney Skaife.jpg). Could you go through these and add proper Nonfree - Fair Use notices instead? Thanks. DS (talk) 22:41, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

  • Reminder! You said you'd get to this after the Christmas break? DS (talk) 14:07, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the reminder! Fixed. You wrote 'multiple photos as own work' - could you list a few?.... the Sydney Skaife image came from the South African Museum, Cape Town after I'd requested a photo in the public domain to use on WP - I never tagged it as my own work!! cheers Paul venter (talk) 15:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

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Reliable sources[edit]

Please see WP:RS. There is no requirement for a reliable source to be available online; books are fine as sources. Peter coxhead (talk) 18:38, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, it SHOULD be a requirement when challenged, lest enormous inaccuracies be perpetuated without the possibility of being reviewed. Paul venter (talk) 07:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

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Tentamen[edit]

Hallo, in this edit you over-wrote a long-standing and helpful redirect (from alternate spelling of "Tentamun") and replaced it with an unsourced dictionary definition. I've reverted. If you have sourced information for something beyond a dictionary definition, then create an article but make a hatnote to replace the current redirect (or make a dab page to offer the two meanings), rather than losing that navigational assistance. Thanks. PamD 00:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Please note that, per WP:BRD, if you make a change to a longstanding title, redirect, or other facet of an article, and that change is reverted, you must discuss the matter and achieve a consensus before attempting to implement the change again. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:10, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Copied from talk page of BD2412[edit]

Thank you for your note on my talk page refreshing my memory about edit-warring. I notice that you did not warn the other party PamD - was that deliberate or inadvertent? cheers Paul venter (talk) 21:04, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

That was deliberate. Your initial bold edit was proper; PamD's initial revert was proper; undoing the reversion without discussion was improper, and required a response. bd2412 T 23:27, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
PamD's initial revert may have been proper, but it was followed by 2 more reverts on the 24th - were they also proper and not falling within the meaning of edit warring? I think if one uses a system one should try to be even-handed.....Paul venter (talk) 15:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
I do not think that even-handedness requires ignoring clearly differing degrees of impropriety. bd2412 T 15:43, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Really? This is from your post on my page

  • Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  • Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

I do not see your "clearly differing degrees of impropriety" but rather a clear case of prejudice. Paul venter (talk) 16:09, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I have explained above that your first move was proper, that PamD's first revert was proper, and that your following move was improper. You appear to have accepted that this was a correct judgment, so no further examination of the question is required. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:24, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't know what gives you the impression that I have accepted your action as the "correct judgement"!!?? You obviously are not giving my notes close attention. I ask again "Why do you regard PamD's reverts after my 'improper' revert as being acceptable? Paul venter (talk) 19:13, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
Let me ask you plainly, then. Do you agree that it was wrong for you to revert PamD? bd2412 T 19:25, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
No! I do not think it was wrong. Her note read "revert to long-established redirect, instead of unsourced dicdef" As I pointed out to her a 'long-established redirect' was of itself not a compelling reason for her to revert. As regards 'unsourced dicdef', I provided sources with my next edit. Paul venter (talk) 06:50, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
You then created a page tagged as a disambiguation page, but which violates numerous aspects of MOS:DAB, including the express prohibition on external links appearing on disambiguation pages, and failing to actually disambiguate between ambiguously titled entries in the encyclopedia. Your actions in this regard were ultimately reverted by another administrator. Please do not create disambiguation pages unless and until there are multiple articles in Wikipedia that share an ambiguous title, or at least mention the topics by the name or term proposed to be ambiguous. bd2412 T 13:25, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Your gratuitous lecture is noted, but you have consistently failed to explain your bias in issuing edit-warring tags. Paul venter (talk) 15:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I thought I had explained things, but to be clear, yours was the first improper act, and the impropriety of your conduct grew worse with each successive edit. No other editor in this dispute was seeking to impose a page containing materials prohibited by MOS:DAB (which I encourage you to review if you intend to continue editing disambiguation pages), which any editor could and should therefore have immediately removed from the page. bd2412 T 15:15, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I don't remember why I'm a talk page stalker of BD2412...but I am. Get over it Paul. You made a bad edit and then edit warred over it. Did someone else edit war? Yes....but they were right. Get over it. I make mistakes here, and I am happy when people correct me. I want the wiki to be accurate. --Onorem (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

The edit-warring tag is intended for editors who are edit-warring - it doesn't ask who was right and who was wrong. Read this post with more care so that you can understand my concern, instead of rushing off half-cocked. Paul venter (talk) 09:55, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

  • Hmm, interesting: I've just seen all the above for the first time, as Paul's talkpage is on my watchlist. I'd actually disagree with your (BD2412)'s statement above that "[Paul's] initial bold edit was proper": he over-wrote an existing redirect without supplying any replacement (such as a hatnote) for the reader looking for the Egyptian name. That was improper, and the reason that having initially PRODded the unsourced dicdef I instead reverted to the pre-existing redirect. PamD 12:28, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
    Proper in the sense that it wasn't straight-up vandalism. It could, in theory, have been a first step towards building a sourced and cited article on the topic. It turns out that it wasn't, but the edit by itself was merely poor editorial judgment, as opposed to something sinister. In any case, I do not think that there is any value to be gained by continuing this discussion. If anyone has anything further to say, please take it to WP:ANI. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
    Edit-warring is edit-warring, and if you're going to slap edit-warring tags on editors, then do so on ALL the parties involved - don't try to prejudge the situation by deciding who was right or wrong, or what was proper and improper - in this case your judgement was poor. Paul venter (talk) 08:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Provenance[edit]

Hm, could've sworn that there were more with incomplete or obviously bad metadata. That said, I'll accept that you might have been present to photograph Rosa Hope in the 60s/early 70s, or Judith Mason in 1980. But some of the pictures of Cuan and Phyllis McCarthy seem to be from the 20s/30s. DS (talk) 15:43, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Phyllis McCarthy was my mother-in-law while Cuan was her son - Phyllis was a painting companion of Rosa Hope and took the photo of her painting in the Drakensberg. The article on Phyllis states quite clearly "She established the Glenaholm Kennels in 1949" which was when she started breeding Ridgebacks, while Cuan was only born in 1929 - I have no idea which photos you presume to date from the "20s/30s". Paul venter (talk) 15:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I'll accept that these are family photos. (Also, I got the names and timeline bungled - Phyllis and Victor are one generation, Cuan and Gillian are a different generation! Good thing I got that sorted out before I renamed any files!) However, you weren't quite paying attention to what "own work" meant, back in '07 when you uploaded these. "Own work" specifically means that you were the one holding the camera — which you weren't. For the photos where you have no idea who the photographer was, you can get away with "family photo -- as a representative of the McCarthy estate by virtue of having married into it, I release the rights to this photo under <license>"; for the ones where you do know who the photographer was (e.g., the picture of Rosa, painting... the photo is by Phyllis McCarthy, and so she owned the copyright, which will not expire until either 50 years after she took the photo (1970ish?, so 2020ish) or 50 years after her death (1986, so 2036). But, as a representative of the McCarthy estate etc etc etc. So if you could fix those details for the McCarthy family pictures, that'd be really helpful. Thanks. DS (talk) 16:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
However, you weren't quite paying attention to what "own work" meant, back in '07 when you uploaded these. "Own work" specifically means that you were the one holding the camera — which you weren't. - Which images specifically are you referring to when you say I tagged them as "own work"? Paul venter (talk) 19:06, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
File:Cuan McCarthy02.jpg, File:Phyllis McCarthy05.jpg, File:Rosa Hope00.JPG, file:Phyllis McCarthy02.jpg, file:Cuan and Gillian McCarthy (1954).jpg, and file:Phyllis McCarthy00.jpg. DS (talk) 20:07, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
  • File:Cuan McCarthy02.jpg "Own image of Cuan McCarthy during his Cambridge University years" - This image, taken c1952 by Cuan's friend and under South African PD, was given to me by Cuan McCarthy who also owned the copyright.
  • File:Phyllis McCarthy05.jpg "Own photo showing McCarthy Twins with Rhodesian Ridgeback champion Glenaholm Dido and Glenaholm Cleopatra (1950)" - This image, taken c1950 by Phyllis McCarthy, was given to me by her; she also owned the copyright.
  • File:Rosa Hope00.JPG "Own image of Rosa Hope painting in Natal Drakensberg, South Africa" - Taken in 1950s and discussed previously.

etc. These photos, with their copyright, were left to me by Phyllis and Cuan McCarthy and it is in that sense that they were owned by me and labelled "own image" or "own photo" - in none of the descriptions did I claim to be the author or label them as "own work". Paul venter (talk) 06:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Paul, DS asked me to take a look at this. After looking at it, I think you're right; I would interpret "own image" as saying that you hold the copyright, not that it's necessarily your work. However, it might be easiest, if you're willing, to add a brief explanatory note to the ones that aren't your own work, saying that you inherited the copyright. It's up to you, though; I think you're all right regardless. Thanks, Writ Keeper  03:57, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi Writ Keeper, thanks for the suggestion - have re-labelled the photos accordingly. cheers Paul venter (talk) 09:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

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William Felton (coachmaker)[edit]

Hi, I wonder if you might know whether or not there was any connection between this William Felton and a Colonel Arthur Felton Mulliner, coach builder and part of a coach making etc dynasty see Arthur Mulliner. I've accumulated quite a bit of bumpf about the Mulliner family and they had a habit of marrying into other coachbuilding families - I suppose because of the practice of sending each other's sons for apprenticeship to someone of at least equal standing. Anyway do you know much of William Felton's family? Regards, Eddaido (talk) 21:50, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Sorry, no I don't. I would suggest you start with a Google search including the 2 terms "William Felton" and "Colonel Arthur Felton Mulliner". Cheers Paul venter (talk) 06:46, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

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Possibly unfree File:Sydney Skaife.jpg[edit]

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Sydney Skaife00.jpg[edit]

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By the time I saw this message the image had already been deleted. This is an idiotic process which allows the uploader no time to object to the deletion and does not take into account global time differences. If you're going to use this tag make sure that it means what it says...Paul venter (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014[edit]

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Rising Star Cave[edit]

Dear Paul,

I see you started the Rising Star Cave page and thank you for that. There are however a number of errors as well as speculation that is not factual nor supported and much of which is wrong (as you will see from my profile, I am in some position to weigh in on this matter. I have tried to change some of the inaccuracies and the keep re-occurring perhaps because you are an editor? I don't know, but I would appreciate assistance in getting the factual content correct.

For example:

"who, as part of an organised search commissioned of geologist Pedro Boshoff" in fact Pedro works for me (and was under my employ) and I commissioned the exploration with him as lead caver.

"for the exploration" should read "for the expedition" - we already had funds for the exploration from national geographic, the expedition was funded separately

"which commenced on 10 November" the expedition began on 7 November


Paul, thank you for your comments on my personal page. Please address the issues that you do not have issue with for which you are responsible. Rather than go into a tit for tat discussion, I believe we should call for a more senior editor to deal with our issues. Do you agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profberger (talkcontribs) 17:16, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


this entire sentence "The large number of individuals found in a tiny underground chamber, though, invites speculation on the cause. The difficulty of access as well as apparent early age of the site would seem to rule out formal burial; the only possibilities remaining are transport by water from another location, or an attempted escape from a catastrophic surface event. Interestingly, the Tswaing crater, some 200,000 years old, lies only 70km distant." is entirely speculative, unsupported and in fact most probably wrong The first sentence is ok, because it does invite speculation of course, but to speculate in the absence of evidence does not support the encyclopedic nature of the wiki.

"The cave system has been previously visited by recreational cavers, though not the fossil chamber. " we have not said the latter part of this sentence and it is unsupported.

" Lee Berger noted on Facebook that he assembled a skeleton from UW-102 materials.[6]" I perhaps think your using a facebook posting to leap to assembling what is implied as a whole skeleton is perhaps a bit much don't you think?

I would very much appreciate your assistance in correcting these factual errors as soon as possible. I have tried and they keep bouncing back so your assistance as an editor and creator would be greatly appreciated.

Profberger (talk) 12:21, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Copied from Lee Berger's talk page:
Dear Lee, Thank you for your notes on the cave. The first thing I should bring to your attention is that I am an editor of the article, but not the only editor. Wikipedia frowns on ownership of articles.

  • The inclusion of Pedro Boshoff was done by an editor called Paleo Bonegirl.
  • "Lee Berger noted on Facebook that he assembled a skeleton from UW-102 materials.[6]" I perhaps think your using a facebook posting to leap to assembling what is implied as a whole skeleton is perhaps a bit much don't you think? I do indeed think it's a bit much, but if you examine the history of the page you will find that it was editor 68.97.5.247 who added the piece - perhaps it might be a good idea to address him/her with your concern. Did you, in fact, post such a statement on Facebook?
  • "The large number of individuals found in a tiny underground chamber, though, invites speculation on the cause. The difficulty of access as well as apparent early age of the site would seem to rule out formal burial; the only possibilities remaining are transport by water from another location, or an attempted escape from a catastrophic surface event. Interestingly, the Tswaing crater, some 200,000 years old, lies only 70km distant." The process by which the remains ended up in the chamber is indeed speculative. The sentence on the Tswaing crater has, as is noted, been added for interest - it is up to the reader to make a connection if he so desires.
  • The lack of information forthcoming, though, is not speculative, but very real, and if you would like to add any data to the article, it would be most appreciated. Paul venter (talk) 13:26, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

In response to the new note you posted on my page, I should point out that after your first note I amended the issues which you raised and which I did not consider problematic. Paul venter (talk) 17:30, 3 April 2014 (UTC)