User talk:Penguins53

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Welcome![edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for November 27[edit]

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Kennedy Bakircioglu[edit]

Instead of continually reverting me, please contribute to the discussion I have just started on the article's talk page. Thanks. Oh, and per WP:BRD, you should leave the article in its original state until the discussion resolves itself. – PeeJay 20:31, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay, sorry. Kennedy is an ethnic Assyrian. Just became he was born in Turkey does not make him ethnically Turkish, aka of "Turkish descent." He has never stated that he is of Turkish descent; in fact, he has stated that he is Assyrian -- nothing else, as are most Assyrians.
We're not talking about ethnicity, we're talking about nationality. Unless I'm very much mistaken, Kennedy's parents were born as citizens of Turkey, yes? Hence, Kennedy is of Turkish descent by nationality. He can also be of Assyrian descent by ethnicity, no one is disputing that, but he is definitely of Turkish descent unless you have a source that says his father was never a citizen of Turkey. – PeeJay 03:20, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

But of "X" descent refers to ethnicity, not nationality.

Not necessarily. – PeeJay 12:21, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, actually, it does -- descent indicates that you are of an ethnic group. I do not say I am of British descent if I am an Arab living in England, for instance. So please, can we change this back to the right and get rid of the "of Turkish descent."

If you were an Arab (let's say Saudi Arabia, for argument's sake) living in England, of course you would not be of British descent. However, if you took British citizenship, your children could be said to be British people of Saudi descent. Therefore, Kennedy Bakircioglu is a Swedish person of Turkish descent, since his father was a citizen of Turkey. – PeeJay 13:10, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

Well, being "pretty sure" doesn't quite cut it. – PeeJay 19:12, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I am positive that is an incorrect way to categorize descent.

Well, I disagree, so it looks like we're going to need a neutral third party to sort this out for us. – PeeJay 21:08, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

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Assyrian and Syriac[edit]

Please refrain from editing articles for the sole purpose of replacing Syriac with Assyrian. Both names are interchangeable and correct, so learn to accept the status quo.--Kathovo talk 14:40, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

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January 2014[edit]

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  • to the ancient Diocese of Malta, formerly a suffragan of [[Adiabene]] or [[Arbil|Arbela]]. Some [[[[Assyrian people|Assyrian]] bishops are mentioned from the fifth to the seventh century (Chabot, "

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  • "Patriarchate of the level" with the [[Pope]] in Rome, the office of Catholicos-Patriarch of the [[Assyrian Church of the East] based in [[Alqosh]] hereditarily had been. He visited the Chaldean

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  • Ottoman Army, but was later released. During the war he stayed in Mardin, where he witnessed the [[Assyrian Genocide], which he describes in his book ''The Utmost of Christian Calamities''.<ref

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What is your rationale[edit]

for adding Syrian names to numerous biblical figures? Dougweller (talk) 19:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, for one the Assyrian people, who speak Syriac (Aramaic), heavily -- and I mean heavily -- Biblical figures' names. Also, the Syriac (Aramaic) names were widely used in early Christian communities of the Middle East. The Assyrian people continue to use them. I didn't add them for a bad reason; I think wikipedia could be of great use for this.

This is twaddle. None of the Syriac patriarchs that you've meddled with were either Assyrian or Turkish. Please desist from this ridiculous behaviour. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:44, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
This is what concerned me. There's a tendency to add different language names to articles when they aren't directly relevant. Dougweller (talk) 21:47, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok: 1. I never said they were Turkish. I made a category for Assyrian/Syriac ethnicity writers that were born in/lived in the area corresponding to modern-day Turkey.

@Doug, what you're saying is something different. I added Syriac Biblical names because many of the Hebrew names came from Aramaic and are both historically and religiously significant.

The best that can be said for this misguided effort is that it confuses multiple time periods. I might read as "Writers who wrote in the Syriac language who were from areas that are now in Turkey". Quite a lengthy title. And probably too obscure. Stop the current activities until agreement is reached on this point. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:52, 18 January 2014 (UTC)


If you click the category page, you'll see that it does not say that.

January 2014[edit]

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Your recent edits[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jerm729 (talk) 23:36, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

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Stop icon

Your recent editing history at Thomas the Apostle shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

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Talkback[edit]

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Hello, Penguins53. You have new messages at Iryna Harpy's talk page.
Message added 03:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Category:Assyrian Turkish writers[edit]

Category:Assyrian Turkish writers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. ES&L 11:50, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

A new proposal[edit]

A new proposal has been placed at: ANI. -- ♣Jerm♣729 18:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

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Your recent edits[edit]

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syrian[edit]

the ethnicity of syrians is debated, and the only way to stand in the face of people who claim that 90% of syrians are arabs is using genetic studies, please read French people , Lebanese people and many other articles about people and you will find the genetic section much bigger than the syrian one--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 04:00, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

the page currently is under debate and genes are the strongest arguments, once this debate is over the genetic information's will be removed from the ethnogenises section and will only be in the genetic section--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 04:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Then why don't you make a sandbox page for now and refrain from adding tons of information and mass edits.

as i told you, genetics are mentioned in like tow sentences outside the genetic section, and they are needed, their is no mass edits in the article, its one of the smallest articles about modern peoples, all the new edits are justified, if you want to know how did the syrian people emerged then you gotta read the ethnogenises section and if you want proof that they are in fact connected to the old inhabitants of syria then you gotta read the genetic section, as i said all other articles have a huge section on genetics and the syrian one is no different, every thing is supported by refrences --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 04:32, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Syriac/Assyrian[edit]

I only use "Syriac" myself, because "Assyrian" is ambiguous, and most people would think it means the people of ancient Assyria. But that's an argument for moving the main article, and edit wars on peripheral articles aren't going to help. — kwami (talk) 01:44, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

If those people are misinformed, by clicking the link to Assyrians they will correct their ignorance -- after all, isn't that what wikipedia is about?

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July 2014[edit]

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Christianity in the Middle East[edit]

OK. I got it. Do not worry about it. But you have to acknowledge that many of the Christians (excluding Greek Orthodox and Melkite) within Syria (excluding the North-East Syria-Hasake area) are a mix of Neo-Aramaic speaking Syriacs + Arameans (originally speakers of the almost extinct Western Aramaic language) + Ghassanid Arab Christian tribes, who are largely Arabic-speaking Christians.

And the case in Lebanon (excluding Greek Orthodox and Melkite) are a mix of Phoenicians + Neo-Aramaic speaking Arameans (originally speakers of the almost extinct Western Aramaic language) + Ghassanid Arab Christian tribes, who are largely Arabic-speaking Christians.

Hopefully we got each others point. MaronitePride (talk) 04:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


You asked me: "Would you know what percent of Maronites identify as Phoenician? I go to a Maronite church and almost all identify as Arabs, then as Lebanese." Well, it is difficult to say but usually the Maronites that have more Right-wing political views will identify as Phoenician Lebanese and usually call the Arabic dialect within Lebanon to be Lebanese language, completely different from the other Arabic dialects (ex. usually Falangist fractions). But if we look at the issue from unbiased view point, all present day Lebanese people, including Maronites and all Lebanese Christians (Greek Orthodox and Melkite), Shia Muslims, Sunni Muslims, and Lebanese Druze, are more or less direct descendants of the historical Phoenicians. Plus many of the Syrian people within the Syrian Mediterranean coast and the Palestinians close to the Lebanese border, also possible many of the present day Greek Cypriots, Maltese, Sicilians, Tunisians and Spanish have some blood connection to the Phoenicians. (Many Lebanese, regardless of religion affiliation are mistaken to be Italian, Spanish or Greek)

But at the same time it is normal that many of the Maronites "identify as Arabs, then as Lebanese." As I mentioned in my previous post, most of the Lebanese Christians (including the Maronites) are a mixture of Phoenicians + Arameans + Ghassanid Arab Christian tribes. (Possibly, the Greek Orthodox and Melkites are a mixture of Phoenicians + Arameans + Ghassanid Arab Christian tribes + possibly Greek blood.) Also, many prominent Maronites are Arab Muslim converts to Maronite Christianity over the centuries. (ex. The prominent Maronite Chehab family traced their lineage to the Banu Makhzum of the ancient Quraysh tribe from Mecca.) And as a result the Arabic language was easily adopted as a first language, the Syriac was left only for religious purposes. (I am not very knowledgeable about the Assyrians. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the Assyrians, in contrast to the Maronites, have no Arab blood at all and as a result managed to keep and preserve the Syriac (Aramaic) language over the centuries.)

"Also, do you know what the first ethnic group to convert to Christianity was?" As a Lebanese Maronite, I would like to think and say the Phoenicians (present day Lebanese people) but I think that the highest possibility is that the first ethnic group/people to convert to Christianity are the people, who lived within Palestine. (The first state, as far as I know, to officially convert to Christianity was Armenia.)

It went my explanation too long, but hopefully it was useful.

MaronitePride (talk) 02:32, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

You said: "Also, although Palestinian Christians were the first Christians - I don't know why, but I do not think they continue to practice those old Christian traditions."

If you mean Palestinian Catholic Christians or Palestinian Protestant Christians, you are correct since they added many Western European new Christians traditions and possible removed some old Christian traditions. But the practice of the Palestinian Orthodox Christians are for sure directly connected to those old Christian traditions from 2000+ years and still retained in practice by them. (By the way our Maronite Church is initially (historically) an offshoot of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch and we see ourselves to follow those old Christian traditions coming via the oldest Greek Orthodox Church. Yes, then we became connected over the centuries through the Crusaders with the Catholics and today we see ourselves to be Catholics but with many intertwined old Greek Orthodox Christian traditions.) Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the Assyrians from the Church of the East have also a lot of pre-Christian traditions coming from the old Assyrian and Zoroastrian religions.

Take care. MaronitePride (talk) 20:43, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

You said: "I think Middle Eastern Christians should unite -- and the first step to unity is learning Aramaic, I believe." Possibly, but Aramaic is very close to Arabic (both Semitic languages) and will be very difficult to learn very similar languages. (ex. I speak French, as every Lebanese, but have difficulties to learn proper Italian or even Spanish because of the similarities). Let's look differently even today languages like Arabic (most of the Middle Eastern Christians live within the Arab world: Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan), possible the use of French and English create unity at the present time. And within the Middle Eastern Christian diaspora the situation is the same the three languages (Arabic, French, English) play a major role for unity.

Take care again. MaronitePride (talk) 21:01, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

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