User talk:Peter Isotalo

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MMM[edit]

Riza-i Abbasi Young Portuguese 1634. Detroit IoA.jpg

Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey. Hafspajen (talk) 15:12, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

BRD[edit]

You are familiar with the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle? You boldly replaced the image, I reverted your edit, and now you Discuss. It's not Bold, Revert, original poster that is on a crusade continues his crusade and insists that everyone else in the world discusses his crusade interminably without resolution because he won't listen to anyone else.—Kww(talk) 23:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Except I did discuss. But revert if you feel that's appropriate.
Peter Isotalo 07:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Quick question about the deletion in mass killings[edit]

Hi Peter, I would want to understand why you did your last deletion. You give as a reasons that the source (which I did not read) is focused on women. But that one fact was about men. Does a source always have to be fully dedicated to be suitable for citation? I see why this question my sound stupid or provocative, but I am really having a hard time understanding wiki policies and explanations are always helpful. Thank you!Lucentcalendar (talk) 08:07, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Lucent, read some of the linked sources at talk:violence against men#Gendercide sources. Most authors comment on the fact that Warren focused on women. And what follows directly after the first quoted sentence I removed is this: "But there are some crucial differences between anti-male and anti-female gendercide."[1]
It's being milked for all its worth, which results in unnecessary undue weight. A lot of the recent edits border on the polemic with synthesis stuffed in between relevant facts. Unfortunately, those facts are also worded in a fairly shrill manner. It's tendentious, even if it's not outright false.
Btw, I'm itching to fix this, but I'm holding off until the AfD is closed. Things will likely calm down after that.
Peter Isotalo 08:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I think I got myself into the worst place to be on wikipedia :-) I have edited many articles before as an IP, mostly on statistics and some minor facts, also some translation back and forth from the German Wikipedia. I never needed an account to talk to others, I was never concerned about some policies, frankly I was not aware of their existance, it all seemed so simple. Anyways, thank you for your patience!Lucentcalendar (talk) 08:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Yup. You walked right into a perfect storm of controversy. You've got gender, violence men's rights movement issues, the WP:GGTF (everyone's favorite punching bag) and discretionary sanctions involved. Tread carefully and focus on content issues. Be especially wary of the ArbCom sanctions. They mean that if you get into an ugly personal dispute or edit warring, you might be taken to sanctions enforcements without going through WP:ANI. If anything, don't let yourself get provoked. And I should know; I don't have a perfect record when it comes to temper management. Only Blessed WikiSaints like Bishonen manage to balance these things almost perfectly.
Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it. I'll do my best to guide you.
Peter Isotalo 09:30, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for you information and your offer, I will try my best to stay out of trouble. Lucentcalendar (talk) 10:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Language-population update project[edit]

Hi. The 18th edition of Ethnologue just came out, and if we divide up our language articles among us, it won't take long to update them. I would appreciate it if you could help out, even if it's just a few articles (5,000 articles is a lot for just me), but I won't be insulted if you delete this request.

A largely complete list of articles to be updated is at Category:Language articles citing Ethnologue 17. The priority articles are in Category:Language articles with old Ethnologue 17 speaker data. These are the 10% that have population figures at least 25 years old.

Probably 90% of the time, Ethnologue has not changed their figures between the 17th and 18th editions, so all we need to do is change "e17" to "e18" in the reference (ref) field of the language info box. That will change the citation for the artcle to the current edition. Please put the data in the proper fields, or the info box will flag it as needing editorial review. The other relevant fields are "speakers" (the number of native speakers in all countries), "date" (the date of the reference or census that Ethnologue uses, not the date of Ethnologue!), and sometimes "speakers2". Our convention has been to enter e.g. "1990 census" when a census is used, as other data can be much older than the publication date. Sometimes a citation elsewhere in the article depends on the e17 entry, in which case you will need to change "name=e17" to "name=e18" in the reference tag (assuming the 18th edition still supports the cited claim).

Remember, we want the *total* number of native speakers, which is often not the first figure given by Ethnologue. Sometimes the data is too incompatible to add together (e.g. a figure from the 1950s for one country, and a figure from 2006 for another), in which case it should be presented that way. That's one use for the "speakers2" field. If you're not sure, just ask, or skip that article.

Data should not be displayed with more than two, or at most three, significant figures. Sometimes it should be rounded off to just one significant figure, e.g. when some of the component data used by Ethnologue has been approximated with one figure (200,000, 3 million, etc.) and the other data has greater precision. For example, a figure of 200,000 for one country and 4,230 for another is really just 200,000 in total, as the 4,230 is within the margin of rounding off in the 200,000. If you want to retain the spurious precision of the number in Ethnologue, you might want to use the {{sigfig}} template. (First parameter in this template is for the data, second is for the number of figures to round it off to.)

Dates will often need to be a range of all the country data in the Ethnologue article. When entering the date range, I often ignore dates from countries that have only a few percent of the population, as often 10% or so of the population isn't even separately listed by Ethnologue and so is undated anyway.

If Ethnologue does not provide a date for the bulk of the population, just enter "no date" in the date field. But if the population figure is undated, and hasn't changed between the 17th & 18th editions of Ethnologue, please leave the ref field set to "e17", and maybe add a comment to keep it so that other editors don't change it. In cases like this, the edition of Ethnologue that the data first appeared in may be our only indication of how old it is. We still cite the 14th edition in a couple dozen articles, so our readers can see that the data is getting old.

The articles in the categories linked above are over 90% of the job. There are probably also articles that do not currently cite Ethnologue, but which we might want to update with the 18th edition. I'll need to generate another category to capture those, probably after most of the Ethnologue 17 citations are taken care of.

Jump in at the WP:LANG talk page if you have any comments or concerns. Thanks for any help you can give!

kwami (talk) 02:17, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Peter[edit]

Hi Peter, thank you for telling me to 'back off'. I appreciate your intervention because, without it, who knows what might have happened? I may have returned to normal life, having moved on from my very brief dispute on Flyer22's talk page. Thanks for getting involved. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

No, the IP has not gotten a life. And if the IP keeps it up, he will realize that he is messing with the wrong editor. Flyer22 (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Flyer22, thanks for your contribution to this discussion, though I don't appreciate the threatening tone. It's a shame you feel the need to make threats and try and use admin staff as your own personal army, but if you feel that is the only resolution, so be it. You've continued this, despite saying "unlike you, when I'm done, I mean it". I would happily drop it, as I haven't left any further messages on your talk page. I am also not a 'he'. Take care, "wrong editor", and please leave me be. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 01:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I see that your reading skills still require improvement. I stated, "Whatever you do now, it's time to ignore you here at my talk page. You will be ignored from here on out by me at this talk page." The "done" part was with regard to you commenting on my talk page, not with regard to you being WP:Disruptive elsewhere. As for the rest of what you stated, it's mess as usual. But if you don't want warnings about your behavior and WP:Administrators to be alerted to that behavior, then stop behaving badly. Flyer22 (talk) 01:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
"I see that your reading skills still require improvement" - personal attacks like this don't help, as I think we've already established.
"if you don't want warnings about your behavior and WP:Administrators to be alerted to that behavior, then stop behaving badly." - likewise. Please stop behaving in an antagonistic manner towards me. Take care 77.99.12.140 (talk) 02:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

About "Vasa, the ship"[edit]

Hello Peter ! I had a look on the article Vasa (ship), and neither under "Vasa as wreck" or "archeology" could I find out the reason why she was so well preserved, after all. In the oceans wrecks, like Vasa was for more than 300 years, dissoleved due to shipworm ("skeppsmask"). The same creatures destoyed sailing ships aswell. But in fresh water or waters with a low salinity, the shipworm is absent. (I don't know at what PCU the shipworm requires, but old wrecks in Öresund gets destoyed).
Please note , this is entirely without offence. I just thought it may perhaps be better if You could improve this part of the article ? Boeing720 (talk) 19:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
It's mentioned in "Archaeology" and "Conservation", though.
Peter Isotalo 23:06, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh then I'm sorry. A doubtful location though, perhaps the headline should be "natural conservation" (before it was salvaged). Or splitted between that and the current conservation at the museum. Just a thought. Boeing720 (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
They're put into context, so not that doubtful. "Natural conservation" seems overly specific, but there's always "Deterioration".
Peter Isotalo 12:45, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Courteous tone[edit]

Hello! Try a courteous an considerate tone with opponents (as per a little guideline abbreviated WP:AGF), especially if you're ever going to have to write on my talk page again. I would really appreciate that very much, and on article talk pages, you'll find we'll all have a much better time, including you, and get results much faster. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Barrdahl"[edit]

Hello. How would you pronounce the surname "Barrdahl" in Swedish? [ˈbarːdɑːl], [ˈbarːˈdɑːl], [ˈbaɖːɑːl] or [ˈbaˈɖːɑːl]? — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 21:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's a slightly unusual name based on the common -dahl formula, so I don't believe I've never actually heard it before. Going on intuition, I'd assume [ˈbarːˈdɑːl] since it consists of barr ("pine needle") and dal ("valley") and is a typical accent 2-word. There are phoentic parallels to this in barrskog ("pine forest") and the place name Kärrtorp. In neither of these would there be a /r/-assimilation.
I believe that in two-syllable accent 2 words, retroflex assimilation only occur when the words aren't compounds. Examples of this would be karda ("card"), värna ("to protect; to defend"), porla ("to purl") or vårta ("wart").
Peter Isotalo 23:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 23:34, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
You're welcome, Peter. Revising my statement above. When I started thinking of other examples, I realized it's the length of the /r/ that matters: farsot ("pestilence; contagion"), karlslok ("worthless man"), barnteater ("children's theater") and härskara ("host; army"; archaic) are all accent 2 compounds, but would all be pronounced with retroflex assimilations (bolded). Which makes sense since assimilations will cross word boundaries in r du har gått ("when you've left") or mor såg mig ("mother saw me").
Peter Isotalo 06:51, 16 March 2015 (UTC).
Thanks again! One more question - how is Marcus Schössow pronounced? The first name is [ˈmarːkɵs] (at least according to the audio clip on Forvo), but I'm not sure about the surname. Perhaps [ˈɕœsːɔf], [ˈɕœˈsːɔf]? — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 07:18, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Definitely [ˈɧœsɔv]. A sch is always ɧ and names with -ow endings are accent 1. Max von Sydow is an excellent parallel.
Peter Isotalo 07:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Added. Thanks once again. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 07:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Haha[edit]

The very first attempts to fika

Asked a Skåning about the fika thing, just to be sure that indeed is not a Lunds-University-thing only. He said : Umgås inte med idioter, det känns som att jag fikar hela tiden, och jag är ju mest i Skåne. Hehe. Hafspajen (talk) 01:08, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it's a local thing. Or a conspiracy by the anti-tea cabal!
Peter Isotalo 07:34, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Do you 2 really mean you've heard Scanians use the word fika? I just can't imagine that. I've known about 300, and I've never once heard them say that. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Please note! I'm just asking, not arguing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:53, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't know if I've been in a situation where I've discussed fika with a southerner. And even if I have, I haven't listened for the absence of the word. It might be local or specific to an older generation of speakers. Either way, it's still just hearsay.
Peter Isotalo 06:53, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I've done some more recent checking, and apparently it in fact is used nowadays. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 03:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
ÖH, yes. I've heard Scanians use the word fika... Samelessly. Hafspajen (talk) 08:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Naughty
Fugel David gegen Goliath.jpg
Beyond Fika
??? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:24, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah, the early, not-so successful attempts at fika, Hafs. Even across the centuries, you can tell they were longing for something more than just booze to pass time. The Wife of Bath was on to something:
I woll gyve yewe the wyne, and ye shull me also,
For tyll we go to soper, we have naught elles to do.
Peter Isotalo 18:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I have, God woot, a large feeld to ere,
(I have, God knows, a large field to till),
  • And wayke been the oxen in my plough.
And the oxen in my plow are weak.
  • The remenant of the tale is long ynough.
The remnant of the tale is long enough.
  • I wol nat letten eek noon of this route;
Also I will not hinder any one of this company;
  • Lat every felawe telle his tale aboute,
Let every fellow tell his tale in turn,
  • And lat se now who shal the soper wynne;
And let's see now who shall win the supper;
  • And ther I lefte, I wol ayeyn bigynne.
And where I left off, I will again begin.
  • Hafspajen (talk) 19:56, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Jag swarade helt modest och med utan någon alteration. Så att iag giorde så mycket mera platz att gifwa, bediandes att han bara skulle säija mig sin rätta willia och låta mig sedan råda med fika, så skulle iag snart nog bringa det i god ordning: och intet war möijeligit såsom hon på pappret stod att Formera, så framt man icke på första linieen undantränga måste." Hafspajen (talk) 20:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Hey, Hafs, what was the D&G pic about? My slinging of wit against my seemingly almighty opponents? Or were you implying that I have grown into a Wikipedian Goliath merely waiting for some newbie to revenge-bite me to death?
Peter Isotalo 18:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
ÖÖÖ. No, you are the David. Hafspajen (talk) 02:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Urban areas in Sweden[edit]

Hi. You seem familiar with Sweden-related articles so I ask you because I have a discussion with Bkonrad regarding my changes at Stockholm urban area. I also changed Gothenburg urban area and Malmö urban area and articles that refers to these. I brought up the issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sweden/Archive 2 a time ago but did not get any answer (see sections "Urban areas" and "Are the urban areas duplicated here?") and now lastly here where I decided to proceed with redirecting them. Are the three articles with "urban area" in their title different from Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö? I think they look like duplicates and that they are all about urban areas (localities or "tätort"). --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:20, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians whose talkpages are decorated by Hafspajen[edit]

Strix aluco 1 (Martin Mecnarowski).jpg

Hi Peter. You can add this category to your userpage if you like. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, decorating, decorating. Earning my bread. Hafspajen (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

?[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Peter Isotalo. You have new messages at Hafspajen's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Reply[edit]

Hello Peter, please visit my talk-page again. I've written an honnest reply. And I see no reason to trouble each other. Thanks for the hints of museums, by the way Boeing720 (talk) 10:03, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Do you mind??[edit]

Darwinbish.jpg
Tin isn't a problem! See how sorry this guy is he reverted me? darwinbish BITE 18:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC).

[Insinuatingly.] Just come a little closer, dear sir! [The whirring noise you hear is Darwinbish filing her sharp little teeth to needlepoints.] darwinbish BITE 18:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC).

"Hope you don't mind a slightly tinny discourse."
Uh, lemme just get my... uhm... dressing gown.
Peter Isotalo 18:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter[edit]

02014 Ostermarkt 2014 in Gemeinde Sanok - Osterhäschen.JPG Happy Easter
Happy Easter....  ! Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Bucintoro[edit]

You are right that a barge is not a galley. The matter is if the Bucintoro is a barge or a galley. I think it is a classic galley, with 20-30 oars and latin sail; while barges are flat hull ships suitable for river navigation. Lele giannoni (talk) 12:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Lele, it's a pleasure barge, actually. Galleys have been used for ceremonial purposes, but the bucentaur is not one of them. It doesn't fit the criteria of contemporary galleys at all. Very different hull structure for one thing. If you think otherwise, find sources that agree with you.
Peter Isotalo 16:50, 8 April 2015 (UTC)