User talk:Piotrus

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
There is no Cabal

Qxz-ad39.png Qxz-ad20.gif

WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg You have the right to stay informed. Exercise it by reading the Wikipedia Signpost today.
This talk page is automatically archived by MiszaBot. Any sections older than 7 days are automatically archived. Sections without timestamps (not signed with ~~~~) are archived manually when I get around to it.

"You have new messages" was designed for a purpose: letting people know you have replied to them. I do not watch your talk page and I will likely IGNORE your reply if it is not copied to my page, as I will not be aware that you replied! Oh, Template:Talkback is ok. Thank you.
Please add new comments in new sections if you are addressing a new issue. Please sign it by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~. Thanks in advance.

Talk archives: Archive 1 (created Jan 17, 2005), Archive 2 (created Feb 21, 2005), Archive 3 (created May 19, 2005), Archive 4 (created July 14, 2005), Archive 5 (created September 27, 2005), Archive 6 (created November 23, 2005), Archive 7 (created January 7, 2006), Archive 8 (created 19 March, 2006), Archive 9 (created 6 May, 2006), Archive 10 (created 17 June, 2006), Archive 11 (created 28 July, 2006), Archive 12 (created 25 September, 2006), Archive 13 (created 28 October, 2006), Archive 14 (created 27 December, 2006), Archive 15 (created 4 February, 2007), Archive 16 created 20 March, 2007), Archive 17 (created 17 May, 2007), Archive 18 (created 30 July, 2007), Archive 19 (created 25 September, 2007), Archive 20 (created 5 November, 2007), Archive 21 (created 2 January, 2008), Archive 22 (created 19 February, 2008), Archive 23 (created 8 April, 2008), Archive 24 (created 15 May, 2008), Archive 25 (created 8 July, 2008), Archive 26 (created 5 October, 2008), Archive 27 (created 4 January, 2009), Archive 28 (created 19 March, 2009), Archive 29 (created 12 May, 2009), Archive 30 (created 20 July, 2009), Archive 31 (created 11 October, 2009), Archive 32 (created 1 December, 2009), Archive 33 (created 25 March, 2010), Archive 34 (created 29 July, 2010), Archive 35 (created 1 November, 2010), Archive 36 (created 24 January, 2011), Archive 37 (created 12 May, 2011), Archive 38 (created 28 September, 2011), Archive 39 (created 16 November, 2011), Archive 40 (created 12 February, 2012), Archive 41 (created 23 April, 2012), Archive 42 (created 7 July, 2012), Archive 43 (created 27 September, 2012), Archive 44 (created 8 February, 2013), Archive 45 (created 21 April, 2013), Archive 46 (created 13 June, 2013), Archive 47 (created 26 September, 2013), Archive 48 (created 27 December, 2013), Archive 49 (created 20 March, 2014), Archive 50 (created 8 June, 2014), Archive 51 (created 2 September, 2014), Archive 52 (created 24 November, 2014) add new archive

Wikipedia is a kawaii mistress :)
I agree to the edit counter opt-in terms.

Current RfAdminship[edit]

RfA candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report
RfB candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report

No RfXs since 23:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC).—cyberbot I NotifyOnline


Hey Piotrus - I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your request to remove Azimo. This is one of the most referenced technology firms in the world after Facebook attempted to buy it in 2014. The founder is nominated for UK entrepreneur of the year in 2 weeks time. The CNN video was entirely about Azimo. There are currently around 3,000 referenced media articles on Azimo - I'll add more if that helps the cause. All of the businesses competitors, even those smaller with less coverage are included on Wikipedia so I'd ask that you strongly reconsider. I'll add new media links now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thesocialpro (talkcontribs) 19:22, November 3, 2014

moved from top Re Valentina Seferinova[edit]


Dear Piotrus

Why is Valentina Seferinova page suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia?

Quite a few reasons come to mind:

I have come across many other entries where (in my opinion & not only my opinion, but others too!) people haven't achieved & have not contributed to our musical knowledge as much as I have & still am trying to do.

Indeed many entries that I see in the Classical Music genre should not be there at all.

It has been my intention to bring back from 'the dead' many composers & their music.

It's composers & music that at their time was a significant part of the concert stage & people's lives. I have recorded and played live many long forgotten composers of different nationalities (Polish, Jewish, Swiss, Bulgarian  etc etc).  I'm not just focusing on Bulgarian music (because I've been born brought up there) but I'm trying to bring to life as many composers from different nationalities & countries that for many reasons were forgotten (or in some cases music was destroyed by Nazi's in their attempt to erase Jewish and Polish music and culture from the face of our planet! Similarly with Stalin in the second half of the 20th century and his attempts to complete Hitler's aims of crushing Jewish and polish culture) as much as I can.

Since the collapse of Communism has allowed these cultures to start investigating and putting things back together in their original and true context.

I'm not sure if you're a musician of any sort, or have an in depth knowledge of musical history but please try and see the significance of the composers listed on my entry.  They have not been chosen on a whim. They all fall into the category of what I'm outlining.  For the Poles - they have yet to re-discover who and what came after Chopin in terms of the development and progression of the classical music form!! (because of the cultural destruction they suffered).

It's absolutely the same for long lost composers with a Jewish heritage - they too suffered horrendously during the 20th Century.

I feel that unless we know of our past & our heritage, how will we be able to find the right path into the future?!

If we don't know where we came from (musically and philosophically) - how do we know where we're going; and what it all means?  The development of modern music forms (both classical and modern) absolutely forms a lineage (like an ancestral tree; one composer/performer learns from his peers then passes on his knowledge and ideas to the generation that follows him or her) over the centuries.

The Polish composers Noskowski, Różycki, and Wieniawski are absolutely in that vein. Similarly the ethnically Jewish composers Raff, Jadassohn, and Brüll are themselves in that vein

Another reason: there have been so many people at concerts, on the Internet,  YouTube, you name it, that have been saying after hearing some of the music I have recorded  & played live: 'Why haven't I heard of this before? It's  beautiful! Where can we find out more...? Thank you for bringing this music to us!. ..'

Well, I'm trying (as others do too) & succeeding: Raff op2 No2 Romance I recorded for the first time ever (in history in fact) in 2002; it is now a well-established piece in the piano literature - included in the grade 6 Trinity exam board! Nowadays many other people are playing & recording the music I've discovered:

The Jadassohn concerto I recorded for the first time ever has subsequently been recorded again by the Hyperion label by another soloist and orchestra.

Similarly the Raff 2nd Sonata that I recorded for the first time ever (the term 'premiere recordings' is exactly what it says) has been recorded subsequently by another artiste by Naxos etc...

My recordings and myself are thus 'notable' in that they are the originals which others are judged by.

At the end I just want to add that I'm doing all this revival in the benefit of the new generation & future generations as when I was a student  I had to learn about the music of composers without being able to hear a single note of it as there were no recordings available.

There are many piano performers who are listed on Wikipedia - and I don't know why it is so - because they do not appear to be 'notable' (your criteria) in any exceptional way for their performances.

May I humbly suggest that I have not just the performance qualifications - but the academic qualifications also - so much missing in others and their entries.

Although writing about my own achievements feels awkward, I feel the facts speak for themselves.


Valentina Seferinova

Master of Music - Theory; Assistant Professor of Music - Performance

(Married Name = Mrs Valentina Seferinova-Bradley; my British husband has always agreed to my retaining my maiden name for professional reasons - i.e.’ Valentina Seferinova’ has a better 'ring' about it than 'Valentina Bradley' !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Visb723 (talkcontribs) 07:13, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Moved from top, by  Revi 07:24, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)Visb723MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC) and small corrections by MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of lack of clear references.
Have added 2 cite references for 'Valentina Seferinova' and the piano Duo 'Va I Ve' - each from the British & International Music Year Book 2015 - although both have been in this authoritative reference manual for in excess of 14 or 15 years.
MLADENOVA (talk) 10:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 10:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus
Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of not notable.
This addresses the question as to whether Valentina Seferinova is ‘notable’ or not.
Claude Debussy (22 August 1862 – 25 March 1918) – a famous French composer, who, together with Maurice Ravel, he was one of the most prominent figures associated with Impressionist music, which endeavoured (mostly successfully) to re-create in music what Monet and others were achieving in the painting world.
The French were very proud of Debussy – at last they had a composer of International standing to rank alongside the likes of Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc. So much so that they eventually turned his 3 storey terraced birth house in St Germain-en-Laye (the outskirts of Paris at the time) into a Museum dedicated to his life and works; a ‘shrine’ if you like.
On the top floor was Debussy’s bedroom, together with his piano, which they turned into a small and intimate auditorium.
From time to time the Trustees would cast around the world to invite a performer, or performers, who were known to be of the requisite quality to give the Debussy Anniversary recital.
For Debussy ‘fans’ around the world, the pinnacle was to be seated in Debussy’s own auditorium on the anniversary of his birth – and listening to world class level performances of his music.
Please bear in mind that this arrangement prevents people who want to perform there just ringing up and saying they’d like to play there. Such opportunities were to be by invitation only.
In the autumn of 1998 – Assistant Professor Valentina, together with colleague Prof. Emilia Mihaylova, gave the first ever performance of Debussy’s complete works for 4 hands (1 piano) (known as ‘Integrale’) in Sofia the capital of Bulgaria. This performance was recorded and even today is the first and only CD recording of Debussy’s ‘Integrale’.
I state that this is a notable achievement – and in keeping with her record, outlined above, of being the first pianist to record certain long lost – but important in the history and development of music, works.
However this recording came to the attention of the Trustees of the Debussy House and Museum – and the pair of them were invited to give the 1999 Debussy anniversary recital on 21st August 1999.
I ask you to take a look at website - a website devoted to Debussy’s House and Museum. Please read the left hand panel; in the photograph please note the décor, the wall paper, and the photograph hanging on the wall (a photograph of Yvonne Lefebure – a famous French pianist – and to whom the auditorium is dedicated).
Please now go to some YouTube videos on Valentina’s channel (e.g.; and; there are more). I hope you’ll notice that the décor and picture are exactly the same – thus proving Valentina’s performance credentials at this exclusive venue.
It is true that the performers do not get paid for their recitals. It is simply the honour and professional recognition of the quality of their performances that they are playing for.
There are countless professional pianist, who are perhaps more well-known because of their commercial success - (many on Wikipedia) who would give their right arm to be invited, even though there is no commercial gain – because it would be the professional endorsement to their Debussy performances that, as I say, they’d give their right arm for. But they have not received such an invitation.
Bottom line – “your Debussy knowledge, understanding, interpretation, and performance has to be the best there is – world class. No exception”
Valentina has received this notable accolade from the Trustees of the Debussy House and Museum – not only for her CD recording of Debussy’s Integrale – but her live performance as well.
To give it some more notable context:-
Debussy died in 1918 – Valentina’s performance was in 1999 – some 81 years later.
Take out some years before the Trustees had established themselves and the recital programme; take out say 6 years of the Second World War; take out other years when it just didn’t happen – then there’s probably only a maximum of 60 or so performers worldwide who’ve received such an invitation and accolade. Valentina is one of those.
In my mind that qualifies as ‘notable’.
PS - how do I know these things ? Because I was there for all of the events mentioned.
MLADENOVA (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus
Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of not notable.
This addresses the question as to whether Valentina Seferinova is ‘notable’ or not.
Sergei Rachmaninoff - 1873 – 28 March 1943) was a Russian composer, pianist, and conductor. Rachmaninoff is widely considered one of the finest pianists of his day and, as a composer, one of the last great representatives of Romanticism in Russian classical music.
At some time later after he died was formed The Rachmaninoff Society under the patronage of famous Russian Conductor and Pianist Vladimir Ashkenazy. It’s raison d’etre was to keep the memory and music alive of Rachmaninoff (as if this really needed doing!!) It’s membership was worldwide.
Each year it held it’s AGM (Annual General Meeting) – typically a weekend retreat lasting from a Friday evening through to the Sunday evening somewhere in the Northern hemisphere – typically USA/New York – but most often in the UK.
The organisers would cast around for someone suitable to give a ‘closed performance’ of Rachmaninoff’s works for the private benefit of members.
Again it would have to be a musician whose knowledge, understanding, interpretation, and performance was of the highest level worthy of the member’s attention.
Valentina was approached for the first time in April 1999 – her performance diary records:- ‘Closed’ recital performance of Rachmaninov cycles for the AGM of The Rachmaninoff Society (President: Vladimir Ashkenazy), Codshall, Nr. Wolverhampton.
The second time was in April 2005 – her performance diary records :- 2nd Recital for The Rachmaninoff Society's A.G.M (President: Vladimir Ashkenazy), and in the presence of 2 of Rachmaninov's Great Grandchildren - pieces by Rachmaninov (Moments Musicaux No. 3 in B minor, Op.16.; Moments Musicaux No. 4 in E minor, Op.16.): Skriabin (3 Pieces for Piano Op.2 [Etude; Prelude; Impromptu alla Mazurka]): Vladigueroff (Prelude from '3 Pieces for Piano', Op.15. Pessen [Song] from 'Bulgarian Suite', Op.21 No.2.; Rhapsodie 'Vardar' Op.16.).
At this performance (in London) she received a complete standing ovation.
“so what ?” you say. Well 2 of Rachmaninoff’s Great Grandchildren were in the audience – and you only have to ask yourself “just how many performances have they ever sat through to know which are the good performances or not !!”
She was invited back for an unprecedented 3rd time in 2008; but declined in favour of playing with partner Venera Bojkova, as 'Va i Ve', a 2 piano duet, for their September 2009 AGM.

As in the case of being invited to perform at the Claude Debussy House & Museum – exactly the same criteria applies.
It just has to be world class; nothing else will do.
Other professional musicians would give their right arm to be invited jut once to endorse their professional reputations.
But none of those featured on Wikipedia have.
Valentina has been invited, and performed not once, not twice – but three times.
That to my mind is ‘notable’.

PS the International Rachmaninoff Society ceased to be in 2013 – mainly due, it’s believed, to being no longer financially viable.
But the facts of Valentina’s appearances remain.
PPS - How do I know these things?
Because I was there in person.

Regards MLADENOVA (talk) 16:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 16:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

I again address whether Valentina Seferinova is worthy of a Wikipedia entry; although this comment is slightly more difficult.
I have uploaded a private video to YouTube which I do not wish to be in the Public Domain for longer than is necessary.
The reason why is that the person featured is Benjamin Zander. Whilst he was aware of being recorded, I had, at the time, explained that it was for private purposes only. However because his comments were made at an event open to the public I believe his comments to be in the Public Domain (but the video isn’t if you can follow me !?)
Benjamin Zander is a British born American citizen - Conductor, and Musician.
At the time the video was made he was Conductor of the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra. He is a three times Grammy award nominee for various CD recordings made with orchestras under his baton.
A man of acknowledged significance in the Classical Music world.
On 21st July 1997 there was a chance encounter between Valentina Seferinova and himself at the Sinfonia Centre, Ouseburn Park, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK.
Valentina was rehearsing and playing Schubert’s Sonata in B flat major in front of an audience.
What happened turned out to be a sort of Master Class from Benjamin Zander.
The video is at Valentina & Benjamin Zander
(Sorry - I’ve had to do it this way to get around Wikipedia’s ‘black list’ of YouTube !)
It is myself behind the camera – and I am the lawful copyright holder of the video.
The video is some 46 minutes long.
It’s probable that you’re understandably too busy to watch it in full – so I will summarise :-
At 0:58 (video time) Benjamin Zander enters the Rehearsal Room/Auditrium.
At 1:50 Valentina is on the piano.
At 2:18 Benjamin Zander is announcing as part of a master Class colleague Valentina will play Schubert’s Sonata B flat major, saying “…I will interrupt because it’s a very long piece ..”.
From 2:46 Valentina plays.
At 7:27 Benjamin Zander rapturously interrupts Valentina with the words “ I’m sure you’re saying ‘What can he possibly say? It’s such beautiful music making. It’s so wonderful what you do.’” And to Valentina he say “What I can say to you – and this is an important thing for you to hear. You are a great artiste , - and a great pianist, - and you understand Schubert, - and you don’t always do what he says .. (with a wry smile), and quite often”. “When we get very accomplished and very masterful – as you are…”
They sit beside each other to investigate and discover what Is Benjamin Zander’s ‘take’ on the piece.
At 15:06 whilst discussing some technical aspects of the piece, Benjamin Zander remarks “There are probably 3 pianists on the face of the Earth who can do this - you’re one of them!” (Possibly slightly tongue in cheek – but said nonetheless.)
It’s interesting to watch as the encounter progresses that whereas in the beginning Benjamin Zander was marginally critical – he becomes more and more ‘besotted’ with Valentina’s playing (25:00 and on) – and in the end is completely won over!! You watch – the body language and attitude changes as it progresses.
32:57 “Beautiful playing!”
Suggest you watch from 44:38
44:59 “That’s about a great artiste and a great musician themselves at the service of the music - 100%.”.
At 45:43 more fulsome praise “this was a great encounter - because you're a tremendous musician; and a great spirit; I mean huge, - and you have everything. Thank you for being available.”

Sooooooo – A 3 time Grammy Award nominee – who must have dealt with hundreds (?) of pianists rates her knowledge, understanding, and playing of Schubert to be amongst the top 3 in the world.

In my mind that’s ‘notable’

The difficulty I have is – how can I cite and prove his words when I don’t want the video to be in the Public Domain (even though his words are!)

MLADENOVA (talk) 20:49, 11 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 20:49, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

So here we have a former child prodigy (her first public performances as a solo piano player, and orchestral soloist were when she was only 12 years of age – that’s notable) who went on to become a highly academically qualified award winning (see original entry) classical Concert pianist - which I suggest is notable in itself (Typically performers have the gift and talent of performance only)
I hope I’ve demonstrated that she is an acknowledged expert – i.e. in knowledge, understanding, interpretation and performance to a world class standard of at least 3 composers (Schubert; Debussy; Rachmaninov) of the Classical Romantic era.
In my mind this is notable; it is more typical that a performer will be an ‘expert’ in one composer only – if any at all.
I hope I’ve illustrated that she has probably contributed more to the further knowledge and understanding of long lost composers than anyone else in recent times – and has helped to fill the void in knowledge and understanding because of the cultural devastation and consequences of 2 of the world’s worst despots(Hitler and Stalin) of the 20th Century i.e. to Jewish heritage music; and to Polish music. She continues to this day with plans to be back in a Warsaw recording studio as early as next spring
She was principally involved in the rediscovery of a ‘lost’ orchestral work of the British female composer Dorothy Howell.
I’m happy for you to have Valentina’s and my above posts reviewed by someone else whose knowledge of such things may be greater should you not be content.
For the Polish music aspect may I humbly suggest a contact with Jan Jarnicki of Acte Préalable in Warsaw, who is the principal in rediscovering, recording, and putting back together again Polish Classical music after Chopin [(email:].
If you are content – then may I humbly agree that Valentina’s entry be part of the United Kingdom, and Bulgaria Wikipedia projects – but at a higher level/significance than the ‘low level’ you are suggesting.
May I also suggest that if similar projects/portals exist for Poland, and Israel that Valentina’s entry be reflected there too.
AND THERE IN LIES OUR PROBLEM – BOTH Valentina and I are quite quite amateurs at this Wikipedia matter – we haven’t a clue how to go about things; and seek your maximum help and assistance in clearing up the mess of matters that brought Valentina Seferinova to your attention in the first place.
Please – a BIG HELP is needed !.
MLADENOVA (talk) 22:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 22:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus
At the top of the Valentina Seferinova page is this:-
The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. Find sources: "Valentina Seferinova" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images (December 2014)

I clicked on newspapers which produced this Google search
It produced some results; you might like to paste it to your browser.

I clicked on books which produced this Google search

It also produced some results; you might like to paste it to your browser.

Have also added a reference and link to BBC Radio 3 (BBC's classical radio station.

How are we doing in preserving this article? Please don't forget that we are amateurs who are asking please for some help.
MLADENOVA (talk) 16:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 16:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus
Re Notability issue

Clicking "Valentina Seferinova" -Wikipedia" at the top of the page where you are worried about notability produces a minimum of 23 pages of Google results !!!
Google seems to regard her as 'notable' ! (agreed Wikipedia may have a different criteria)
MLADENOVA (talk) 14:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)MALADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 14:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus
Meni stvarno nije jasno sta ti zelis!? Ako sam ja sta pogrijesio, ti ispravi. I molio bih da slucajno neko ne bi obrisao stranice koje sam ja napravio. Mogli bi mi samo reci HVALA Pozdrav iz Republike Srpske! :) --Dejan 97 (talk) 14:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I made my own image for 'webtoon'[edit]

User:Seoung13/sandbox Professor, Please check my sandbox! I want to receive your feedback :) Thank you~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seoung13 (talkcontribs) 14:23, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

If you include the definition of Webtoon, and contents in sections could be in prose.  Revi 14:36, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I really made two image by myself, but maybe wikipedia deleted my image in my sandbox.....I insert image again, but one image can't upload again because I deleted in my laptop computer. I want to solve this problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seoung13 (talkcontribs) 11:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see problem on that image. But... @Seung13 Can you tell me where did you get the image of man?  Revi 11:25, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
To clarify: in File:Webtoon second generation.png, did you draw the image of the man yourself? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:31, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 December 2014[edit]

Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open![edit]

Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators, TomStar81

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Ministry of National Defense[edit]

Here it is; Note that their response is not licensed under Wikipedia-compatible license.  Revi 04:43, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
I went to Template talk:Welcome student to suggest we add a switch to link to applicable course pages, only to find out you created Template:Welcome own student a year ago to do just that. Thanks for solving a problem before I realized what it was. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:10, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

DYK for The Partisans (sculpture)[edit]

Harrias talk 09:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Project A-Ko RPG[edit]

Regarding the Project A-Ko RPG page, I did have one source that I was able to use to expand it considerably. I know this may not be enough to satisfy the WP:GNG, but would you find it acceptable to have the PROD removed and replaced with the Refimprove tag? BOZ (talk) 17:18, 17 December 2014 (UTC)