User talk:Pne

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Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 16:00, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, that was my mistake :P -- EmperorBMA / ブライアン 18:40, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Mathification of haversine formular[edit]

Hello. I think your "mathification" of haversine formula was a mistake. On most browsers, TeX looks good on Wikipedia when it is "displayed", but looks very bad when it is embedded in text. Michael Hardy 22:17, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

OK. It looked OK to me since I have my preferences set to render maths as HTML when it's simple (which included all examples in the running text, as they were mostly simple variable names. But keeping them as explicit italics (e.g. ''d'' instead of <math>d</math>) may be better. Thanks. pne 12:30, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)


I've for long (a year, actually) been itched by the way Wikipedia-links are done with often sloppy distinctions between nationality, citizenship and ethnicity (with regard to persons) and also between nations and countries. This is particularly obvious in the case of people or entities that are denoted as German. A link to the Federal Republic of Germany is often outright unhistorical and wrong, but this has until now been the most usual.

That's why I'm considering an article on Germans, which I've started at the temporary location User:Ruhrjung/Germans. I would wish to avoid too much of edit wars after having started to link to the article. In particular, I would not wish to see the current disputes over German-Polish matters automatically extend also to this article, why I kindly ask you for comments now, in advance, in order to try to find wordings acceptable to as many as possible of concerned wikipedians.

(I guess I don't have to point out that ex-patriats often see these things much clearer than people who always have lived in Germany!)

I look forward to your comments at User talk:Ruhrjung/Germans.
--Ruhrjung 00:04, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Ich glaube nicht, dass ich dir hier groß helfen kann -- ich bin nicht wirklich das Maß aller Dinge in Bezug auf "was keinen Anstoß erregt". (Dafür bin ich überhaupt zu kurz dabei.) Trotzdem Danke für den Pointer, und viel Glück in deinem Vorhaben. -- pne 14:56, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)


Hi, just returning your message.

It's not my fault if some people don't have IPA support. It is common practice on Wikipedia to give the name of a place or language in the native language, even when it uses non-basiclatin-characters, and policy basically says "Let the User be damned if He haþ not downlound proper support for It." (It referring to Unicode). What are the chances that somebody who can actually READ IPA will not have IPA support AND will stumble upon this page? Most readers are IPA-illiterate so it matters not either way. Also, SAMPA is ugly, caps-sensitive, and does not work for all languages. (thus you may advocate X-SAMPA, but...) I understand that you may disagree with me, but I have found that most users applaud my work to convert the page. As for the deletion of Finnish - I'm very sorry, it was not intentional and I will restore it presently. Common phrases in constructed languages - well, I was going to get to that, but in the mean time I'm converting SAMPA elsewhere on the 'pedia. Best Wishes, Node

SAMPA is ugly, caps-sensitive, and does not work for all languages.
It's also language-specific: a given symbol may have different meanings in different languages.
thus you may advocate X-SAMPA
Indeed. Or Kirshenbaum ASCII IPA. I don't mind much either way; Kirshenbaum was my first exposure to ASCIIfied IPA (on the alt.usage.english newsgroup), but since then, I've been exposed to X-SAMPA, e.g. on the CONLANG-L mailing list, and it seems to be more popular here on Wikipedia.

Angela in Klingon[edit]

Hi. Feel free to fix my Klingon page. I have no objection to people editing my user pages. The majority of my user pages in other languages are probably ungrammatical and quite a few have been kindly fixed by people who speak the language better than I do. Angela. 04:07, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Pne. I'll try to do my best :-) SweetLittleFluffyThing


I appreciate the info post. I don't think I've made any awful mistakes yet, but there are quite a few things in those links I hadn't seen yet. Mariko

Glad it helped. It's more or less what I was welcomed with :) -- pne 12:02, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

P.S. Also thanks for the Robert Jordan addition. I added those two authors because I'd looked at their entries recently -- I ought to go through and actively look for more... Mariko


Ive since changed my sig. :) Stevertigo 18:42, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Privacy policy[edit]

Good evening. You recently weighed in with an opinion on the discussion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/User:Tim Starling/Password matches. On the basis of that discussion, I have proposed some changes to our privacy policy at Meta:Draft privacy policy. I would appreciate your thoughts if you have time. Rossami 22:20, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Good job, thanks for your contribution

user:Kolomonggo from Indonesia

PS: see me in Indonesian and Javanese Wikipedia too

Transcription of Greek spellings[edit]

Hi Pne,

The Latin character transcription of the Greek names in the List of country names in various languages needs to be made consistent. There are many ways of transcribing Greek, but the most important thing is to maintain internal consistency. I had attempted to use a more phonetic transcription style (e.g. y for γ before i and e, gh for γ elsewhere, dh for δ, but d for ντ, etc.) but Picapica changed the transcription style back to a more literal one that closely reflects the Greek letters. This is what I wrote to Picapica:

"You changed the Greek transcription style for all country names from the more phonetic one (Vélyio, Vulgharía, Dhanía, Éyiptos, etc.) which has the advantage of providing a clue to the pronunciation and avoids confusion with phonetic g, d corresponding to orthographic gk, nt (as in "dolmadhes" spelled "ntolmades"), to the more orthographic one (Vélgio, Vulgaría, Danía, Égiptos, etc.), which closely reflects the Greek spelling, but does not provide a clue to the pronunciation. Fine. Personally, I have a preference for the former style, but I am not going to argue about that. However, you overlooked Souidhía which you should have changed to Suidía."

So, you will probably understand now why I transcribed Γιουγκοσλαβική as Giunkoslavikí. I totally agree with you that γκ should be transcribed phonetically as g, however your current transcription Giugoslavikí is unacceptable, because it mixes two different transcription syles: the phonetic one (g for γκ) and the literal one (g for the initial γ). The transcription should be either entirely phonetic (i.e. Yiugoslavikí, which personally I would prefer) or entirely literal (i.e. Giunkoslavikí, or maybe even Giougkoslavikí to be absolutely faithful to the Greek letters).

My inclination would be to make all transcriptions phonetic. Please let me know what you think.

That is what I would prefer, too -- if you'll look at the edits I made several days ago, I used (though not completely consistently) spellings such as the dh and y which you mentioned. I would also prefer Yiugoslavikí or even Yugoslavikí.
As for ou vs. u, I don't have as strong an opinion, especially since the digraph ou is used for /u/ in other language such as French. It may be better to render Greek ου as u, though.
I'm divided on the spelling gh, which I'd render as g, though I agree that gh has merits, especially when contrasted with kh (my rendition of χ).
I think the main reason I meddled with Giunkoslavikí is that it also mixes phonetic and literal transcription - the n in it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Either write ng (phonetic) or gk (literal). Or to be hyper-literal, Giougkoslabikí or even, as I've seen occasionally (for modern Greek!) Giougkoslabikê (ick!). -- pne 07:32, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

P.S. BTW, it was also Picapica who removed i Káto Khóres - οι Κάτω Χώρες (for the Netherlands), which you had previously added. Thanks for putting it back. However, FYI, the Greek Wikipedia simply says: Káto Khóres - Κάτω Χώρες.

Pasquale 19:12, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As Pasquale says: 'twas indeed I, Picapica, the thieving magpie, who stole Káto Hóres (as I would spell it). I honestly believe that this term really corresponds to English "the Low Countries", i.e. the Netherlands + Belgium, the historical Netherlands of Spanish and Austrian Netherlands fame. Much as I personally deplore the use of "Holland" and cognates to refer to the Netherlands, even the Royal Netherlands Embassy and Cultural Institute in Athens do not use Káto Hóres. But then again, I have been known to be wrong... :-) -- Picapica 19:33, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
P.S. pace Pasquale (and his "Picapica changed the transcription style back to a more literal one that closely reflects the Greek letters"), my transcription style -- though it eschews the non-phonemic distinctions sought by the use of dh / d and y / gh -- does not at all adhere rigidly to the Greek letters (that would, in any case, be transliteration, not transcription). Indeed, I have fought long and hard in various fora to be spared having to write such absurdities as "Ntoumpróvnik" for Dubrovnik, or even "Peiraiás/Peiraieús" for "Pireás/Pireéfs". (But don't get me on to all the difficulties involved in the dimotikí/katharévusa distinction!) -- Picapica 20:03, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Planned/Constructed/Artificial Languages[edit]

I've seen your contributions there and would like to ask you to comment on a restructuring proposal at Talk:Planned language. -- Pjacobi

Hiligaynon vs. Ilonggo[edit]

Philip, I saw your query about the difference between Hiligaynon & Ilonggo on the Pages Needing Attention Page. Hiligaynon is the better term. Ilonggo refers to the dialect of Iloilo but nowadays it refers to the people and alternatively, the language. Hiligaynon is more inclusive and unambiguous. Furthermore, it's used by linguists in the field. --Chris 23:47, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Hey, I took your advice. A friend of mine had suggested the previous one, because I had orginally been using a really poor translation from bablefish. I asked him about it, and he said it's all just a matter of preference, so I switched to your suggestion. Thanks. マイケル 20:58, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)


Pne, Ceqli language is up for undeletion and we really need your help in undeleting it. Too many Wikipedians are skipping right over my arguments for undeletion to vote "Keep deleted". Wiwaxia 04:04, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

We really need your vote and possibly your arguments. I know these people voted to keep deleted only because of the count of consensus, but they're really not in the spirit of VfU. If these articles were really deleted against consensus, we wouldn't need to put them on VfU to begin with. If you and enough people vote for the Ceqli article to be undeleted, they will undelete it. The undeleters don't even seem to pay attention to the reasons, only to the vote count. That's why we need someone like you. As for re-creating the article, articles that are re-created are supposed to be deleted -- immediately -- as a proper part of process. If you really want to undelete it properly, you'll need to vote undelete on Wikipedia:Votes for Undeletion. Wiwaxia 04:11, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Your name everywhere![edit]

Just checked my watchlist and saw your name everywhere! Thanks for some very good edits on the breastfeeding article and numerous related ones. violet/riga (t) 07:42, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Niuean language[edit]

I've just looked at Niuean language, which seems to be mostly your work, pne. Fantastic-looking job compared with the Maori language page, for example, which covers a language that has 15 times as many speakers.

Yes, indeed, the text is mostly by me, loosely based on some of the sources in the bibliography (but I tried to copy only facts rather than wording or presentation). And yes, I was a little proud that there was more on Niuean than on Maori :)

You may be interested to know that the New Zealand Prime Minister, Helen Clark, recently visited Niue and included in her speeches some reference to the fact that (as part of New Zealand's $3,000 per annum per resident subsidy to Niue) she was interested in helping to preserve the language.

Ah - interesting. Thanks. I had read it briefly on but the fact had not really registered with me.

If anyone was interested in starting a Wikipedia for Niue, I would be willing to help, as I have for the Maori one. I could even write to the Prime Minister and ask her to publicise it if it got off the ground.

I think that would be very nifty! I'd thought about it in the past as well. However, I don't think there'd be enough contributors. I find Niuean interesting but I have next to no command of the language, so I'd be no use in writing articles.

I'm not sure how one should handle a language with two dialects!

The same way as in en, I'd say! After all, you have spelling variations (color/colour), word choice variations (truck/lorry), and grammar variations (went to the hospital/went to hospital) here, and the two main dialects appear to coexist fairly peacefully. I'd propose the same for a Niuean Wikipedia if it ever came to pass, with everyone editing in the dialect they're most familiar with. As far as I know, the two main dialects there are mutually comprehensible.

Robin Patterson 21:37, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

-- pne 04:57, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you, pne, for the informative responses. I tried to reply yesterday but WP staged a Go-slow just when I had a train to catch.
Maybe we can post messages on Talk:Niue and Talk:Niuean language to see if there are any "speakers" who would like to take part in a joint project, with them doing the real writing and us playing around with machinery matters. I expect I know enough Maori language to be able to see if anyone's putting garbage on Niuean pages. Even one reasonably competent speaker willing to contribute an article a week would be better than what Wikipedia Maori has at present.
Kind regards. Robin Patterson 06:30, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Happy Birthday![edit]

Happy birthday, Philip! Best wishes. --Whosyourjudas (talk) 03:15, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oooh, thanks! -~ pne 04:58, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Wow, who would have thought I'd find so many familiar faces on here! Just thought I'd wave and say hi! Redfarmer 14:59, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi, Chris! -- pne 05:10, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing[edit]

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:


Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Multi-licensing minor edits in sister projects[edit]

Thanks for helping me out. Do you happen to know if multi-licensing minor edits is possible in the sister projects, such as Wikiquote, and eventually Wikinews? (I know Wikinews is currently public domain.) —Vespristiano 05:16, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My understanding is that you have copyright of your own edits and can, therefore, release them under as many licences as you want. An exception may be very minor edits such as correcting a typo or punctuation as there is no real "creative energy" in such changes, which is probably why some suggest putting such changes into the public domain -- since some hold such changes to be uncopyrightable anyway, and explicitly disclaiming copyright makes it unnecessary to guess. So I would guess that if you place an appropriate notice in an easily findable place (such as a user page) on other sites, you could do the same there, too. -- pne 06:49, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


Hi. I don't know how often you visit the List of European cities with alternative names these days, but there has been a controversy on its talk page for the past ten days or so, and I was wondering if you would care to review it and possibly intervene. Thank you. Pasquale 18:18, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Klingon wikipedia needs admin[edit]

The Klingon wikipedia was devasteted by the autofellatio vandal, who moved around articles and edited the redirects thus it needs an admin to delete these redirect to move back to articles to their correct location. andy 12:20, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism in progress[edit]

The Klingon Wikipedia badly needs your help. Can you permanently block tlh:lo'wI':Kevin baas (not to be confused with the admin on English Wikipedia)? This vandal is wreaking havoc on Klingon Wikipedia and using the aliases of English Wikipedia administators. JarlaxleArtemis 21:57, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

I just figured out that the vandal's IP address is . JarlaxleArtemis 03:01, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Blocked name and IP for 6 months for now. Thanks for letting me know. -- pne 04:57, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Zürich to Zurich[edit]

Zürich has been nominated on Wikipedia:Requested moves for a page move to Zurich. Being a contributor to the previous vote you might like to express your opinion about this proposed move in the new vote on talk:Zürich. Philip Baird Shearer 09:15, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)


How would I write India in klingon (both in Roman and the snative script)?  =Nichalp (Talk)= 20:17, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

There isn't an official word for "India" in Klingon, to the best of my knowledge. I suppose one could write it phonetically.
Also, we don't know what the native Klingon writing system is like; the only thing we know about it is its name.
Why do you want to know? -- pne 10:22, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Just noticed your reply, I wanted to make a page for India on the klingon wp. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= July 6, 2005 12:57 (UTC)
FWIW, there is now a fairly official Klingon name for India: barat. (From the EuroTalk Talk Now! CD for Klingon.) But there’s no Klingon Wikipedia any more :) -- pne (talk) 11:36, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin[edit]

Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 14:39, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. I'm not sure whether I'd make a particularly good admin, but I starred myself on that page anyway -- if someone else would like to propose me, they can do so. -- pne 14:58, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stub templates[edit]

Hi - erm, you seem to have gone a little mad with Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. You put {{stub}}, {{geo-stub}}, {{US-stub}} and {{US-south-geo-stub}} on it. US-south-geo-stub is the only one it should have, since that's a subcategory of both US stub and geo stub. And {{stub}} is only used on those which don't have more descriptive stub templates (as it says on the template!) So... nice work with the stub categorising, but just the best fitting template will do the job next time! :) Grutness...wha? 06:32, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough. The hierarchy's usually fairly straight forward (e.g., if it's Country-geo-stub it'll automatically be a subcategory of both country-stub and geo-stub), but better safe than sorry :). Grutness...wha? 12:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Geometric kite[edit]

Regarding the latest change, which is the former and which is the latter, it is unclear as you only mention kite flying in the sentence. Can you change it to "the geometric kite was inspired by the shape of the flying object" or whichever - I can't figureout which way it is. Onco_p53 11:14, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

List of country names in various languages under attack !!![edit]

Dear Philip,

The List of country names in various languages, List of European regions with alternative names, List of European cities with alternative names, List of European rivers with alternative names, and others, have come under attack by a certain Mikka, who, having just stumbled into all these lists, having found them of little use to himself, and having repeatedly ridiculed them and their users, has then promptly filed a petition to delete the lists in question.

Please cast your vote to keep these valuable, informative, and indeed fascinating lists at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of country names in various languages.

Thanks! Pasquale 17:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, Philip, I am truly sorry my attitude appeared to be disconcerting, but I truly was incensed. You have to realize that this began with Mikka criticizing the List of European regions with alternative names (on its talk page), which he had just happened upon for the first time (after apparently two years of Wikipedia contributions). In response, I pointed out to him (in a very civilized way, you can check) that there were many such sites, such as the List of country names in various languages, the List of European cities with alternative names, the List of European rivers with alternative names, and others. And what does Mikkalai do? He files a very broad AfD, just like that, referring to all those pages, immediately upon discovering their existence. Should I not have been incensed? Perhaps I still don't understand how the Wikipedia is supposed to work. Of the first three votes, two were in favor of the deletion, from people who had never contributed to any of those pages. That's when I decided I had to do something about it. Pasquale 20:58, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Germany is being replaced by a category[edit]

Hello! You were listed on the Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Germany page as living in or being associated with Germany. As part of the Wikipedia:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, or one of the Bundesland-based subcategories, please visit Category:Wikipedians in Germany for instructions. --Angr (tɔk) 15:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

New things for Germans and German-speakers[edit]

Hi again, I thought you might be interested in Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board and Portal:Germany. Angr/talk 15:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


i searched through the history and the question at relates to infomation you added. could you possiblly answer it? Plugwash 03:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I posted a comment on that section of that talk page. -- pne (talk) 11:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Please check your WP:NA entry[edit]

Greetings, editor! Your name appears on Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts. If you have not done so lately, please take a look at that page and check your listing to be sure that following the particulars are correct:

  1. If you are an admin, please remove your name from the list.
  2. If you are currently interested in being considered for adminship, please be sure your name is in bold; if you are opposed to being considered for adminship, please cross out your name (but do not delete it, as it will automatically be re-added in the next page update).
  3. Please check to see if you are in the right category for classification by number of edits.

Thank you, and have a wiki wiki day! BD2412 T 03:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Java and Visual Studio[edit]

Hi. Thanks for tipping me off about the vfd.

I basically agree, but please see Talk:Java and Visual Studio. --Uncle Ed 16:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Cardioid vs. Nephroid[edit]

Regarding your change to Caustic (optics), can you cite a reference that the form of the rays is a nephroid rather than a cardioid? There exists at least one reference that claims otherwise: Collett, Edward (2005). Field Guide to Polarization. SPIE Field Guides vol. FG05. SPIE. ISBN 0-8194-5868-6. , page 1.--Srleffler 03:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Not a print reference, no. I went by what I read on the German Wikipedia, for example:
Ein typisches Beispiel dafür ist die „Kaffeetassen-Katakaustik“: wenn Licht schräg in eine Tasse mit glänzender Innenseite fällt, kann man am Tassenboden oder in einem etwas trüben Tasseninhalt herzförmige Lichtkringel beobachten, die durch die beschriebene Katakaustik gebildet werden. Dieser Lichtkringel wird mathematisch durch eine Nephroide beschrieben. (from de:Kaustik (Optik): a typical example is the "coffe-cup catacaustic": when light falls at an angle into a cup with a shiny inside, you can see heart-shaped light swirls at the bottom of the cup or on the surface of murky contents, which come from the mentioned catacaustic. These light swirls are described mathematically by a nephroid.)
Fällt Licht seitlich auf eine konkave, kreisförmige reflektierende Oberfläche, so bildet die Einhüllende der Lichtstrahlen die Hälfte einer Nephroide. Manchmal wird sie daher auch "Kaffeetassenkaustik" (Kaustik = Brennlinie) genannt. Man kann sie auch auf der Straße beobachten, wenn die blanken Felgen eines Fahrrades das Licht auf den Boden reflektieren: Da das Sonnenlicht den Zylindermantel der Fahrradfelge parallel trifft, bildet sich eine Brennfläche, deren Profil die Form einer halben Nephroide hat und die, wenn man sich leicht in die Kurve legt, mit dem ebenen Untergrund einen Teil einer Nephroide als Schnittfigur bildet.
  • Oft wird behauptet, die Lichterscheinung in einer Kaffeetasse, die von parallel einfallendem Licht getroffen wird, sei eine Kardioide. Das ist nicht richtig, es handelt sich bei Kardioide (algebraische Kurve 4. Grades) und Nephroide um verschiedene Kurven. (from de:Nephroide: [...] it is often claimed that the light phenomenon in a coffee cup struck by parallel rays is a cardioid. That is incorrect [...])
Oft wird behauptet, die Lichterscheinung in einer Kaffeetasse, die von parallel einfallendem Licht getroffen wird, sei eine Kardioide. Das ist nicht richtig, es handelt sich dabei um eine Nephroide. (from de:Kardioide: it is often claimed that the light phenomenon in a coffee cup struck by parallel rays is a cardioid. That is incorrect; it is a nephroid.)
On the other hand, this has also been challenged:
Für die Behauptung, die Kaffeetassenkaustik wäre keine Kardioide, würde ich gerne einen Beweis sehen. --Phrood 19:20, 24. Aug 2006 (CEST) (from de:Diskussion:Nephroide: I'd like to see some proof for the claim that the coffee cup caustic is not a cardioid)
However, the following bits from Mathworld seem relevant:
The cardioid [...] is the catacaustic formed by rays originating at a point on the circumference of a circle and reflected by the circle. (s.v. Cardioid)
Huygens showed in 1678 that the nephroid is the catacaustic of a circle when the light source is at infinity, an observation which he published in his Traité de la luminère in 1690 (MacTutor Archive). (s.v. Nephroid)
For radiant point at µ=∞, the catacaustic is the nephroid (s.v. Circle Catacaustic)'
See also Catacaustic, in particular the two lines starting with "circle catacaustic". So while I'm not experienced in optics or geometry, and don't know what the situation is for slanting parallel rays in 3D, the Mathworld bits do seem to me to support the claim that parallel rays in a coffee cup cause a nephroid rather than a cardioid. (And for "real-world" situations, where the rays do not come from an idealised point at infinity and where they are not exactly parallel, the shape is somewhere in between a nephroid and a cardioid -- an imperfect nephroid, if you will; at any rate, it has two cusps rather than one.) -- pne (talk) 06:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello. I created a baby stub for the article benzethonium chloride.[edit]

Free free to jump into the contributions with this benzethonium chloride stub. Good Luck. BenzethoniumChloride 06:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Ill Bethisad Article[edit]

Can you remember why you created the article? Did you know that it was recently deleted? (And restored by my protestations?) Bo-Lingua 20:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you remember why you created the article? -- no, not specifically. I think it was a combination of the fact that a number of articles linked to it (with redlinks) and that it seemed a fairly notable conworld, as conworlds go, and deserved (in my mind) an article. Did you know that it was recently deleted? (And restored by my protestations?) No, I did not. Thank you, though! -- pne (talk) 08:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm concerned it's going to be brought to a VfD; I know that it's notable enough in connection to the article on Brithenig and Wenedyk to merit its own space, given the notoriety of those two conlangs. You'll want to keep an eye out. :) Bo-Lingua 16:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Non-clerical clothing[edit]

FYI, Haredi Jews wear a lot of interesting non-clerical religious clothing. Shtreimel etc. --Daniel575 | (talk) 12:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I wonder how much of this is specifically religious and how much is traditional/"ethnic"/etc. -- pne (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Klingon Wikia - NEW[edit]

Hallo Pne! So findet man sich wieder ;-)

Ich wollte dich darüber informieren, dass der ehemalige Klingonische Teil von Wikipedia umgezogen ist, und nun wieder als Projekt aufgenommen wurde als Klingon Encyclopedia.
Es würde mich freuen, dort wieder von dir zu hören/lesen.

I would like to inform you that the former Klingon section of Wikipedia (tlh) has moved to wikicities and will now be continued as Klingon Encyclopedia.
I would be glad to hear/read from you there again.

Greetings, Lieven.

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Thought about archiving your talk page?[edit]

It's running a bit long. Cheers! bd2412 T 01:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


Just noticed you manually rounded off census numbers in Wiseman, Alaska. I've pondered that in the past, but refrained because a) I didn't want to sign up to do all 30,000+ towns, and it would misleading inconsistent to have done some and not others, and b) it injects a bit of subjectivity into numbers, so they can't be mechanically verified in the future. Stan 15:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposed: Hemlock Overlook Regional Park → Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority[edit]

It has been proposed to merge the content of Hemlock Overlook Regional Park into Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. Since you have previously edited one of these articles, I thought you might be interested. You're welcome to participate in the discussion if you like. --B. Wolterding 18:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

November 2007[edit]

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, adding content without citing a reliable source, as you did to Starbucks, is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. This is especially important when dealing with biographies of living people, but applies to all Wikipedia articles. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you are already familiar with Wikipedia:Citing sources please take this opportunity to add your original reference to the article. Thank you. appears to be WP:OR... Anastrophe 15:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Ill Bethisad[edit]

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An editor has nominated Ill Bethisad, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ill Bethisad and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 21:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Germany Invitation[edit]

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Hello, Pne! I'd like to call your attention to the WikiProject Germany and the German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board. I hope their links, sub-projects and discussions are interesting and even helpful to you. If not, I hope that new ones will be.

--Zeitgespenst (talk) 22:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


I have granted rollback rights to your account; the reason for this is that after a review of some of your contributions, I believe I can trust you to use rollback correctly by using it for its intended usage of reverting vandalism, and that you will not abuse it by reverting good-faith edits or to revert-war. For information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. If you do not want rollback, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Good luck and thanks. PeterSymonds (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

KP not in Hamburg[edit]

You're right about this. I must have had a brain malfunction. I believe she actually lives in or near Bonn, but I only have circumstantial evidence for that. BigBadaboom0 (talk) 13:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Anabukinchan[edit]

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A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Anabukinchan, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

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All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Reywas92Talk 19:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


Just wanted to let you know that I put Anabukinchan up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anabukinchan (3nd nomination). Reywas92Talk 03:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Qisda[edit]

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The article Qisda has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Oo7565 (talk) 05:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge discussion for List of UK dialling codes covering Wales [edit]

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, List of UK dialling codes covering Wales , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. (talk) 03:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

New message[edit]

Hello User:Pne, I came across your edit on Preity Zinta's article. Since you are quite familiar with the concept of phonetics and phonology, I was wondering if you could help me out by spelling Kareena Kapoor in IPA. I would really appreciate it if you could help me out with this. Thanks :) -- Bollywood Dreamz talk 18:10, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Qisda[edit]

You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles. See the Article Wizard.

Thank you.

A tag has been placed on Qisda, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be unambiguous advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add {{hangon}} on the top of Qisda and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from independent reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. USchick (talk) 22:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of SoftMaker[edit]

The message placed here has been removed by the poster, please see below for the reason.

^^ Please ignore this message, it was placed in error whilst removing promotional edits from a blocked user. Sorry about that :) BarkingFish 14:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


Hi Pne, I noticed you reverted my change to File:Inuktitut.svg with the edit summary: apparently the ICI (Inuit Cultural Institute) orthography uses l with diagonal stroke (ł), not l with tilde (ɫ). I googled for this and I cannot find anything about this. There does not appear to be such an institute by that name. Do you have a link for this claim? Thanks! — Timwi (talk) 06:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Inuktitut.svg: Response[edit]

I don't remember where I found the source of my information. It's possible, though, that it was (pages 9 and 10), where the ICI orthography is described as using barred-el (ł).

On the other hand, has a diagram that says it describes "The new “dual orthography” system that the Inuit Cultural Institute endorsed in 1976"; this diagram uses l-with-tilde (ɫ).

So I don't have an authoritative source either way - do you?

As for the existence of the ICI, the sources I found mostly refer to it in connection with the orthography standardisation process in 1976; it may well be that the organisation is defunct now, has merged with another organisation, and/or changed its name.

Some further pages mentioning the ICI are [1], [2] (by one of the people present at that meeting, Mick Mallon), [3] (notable quote: "They had an institution in Eskimo Point [Arviat] at that time called the Inuit Cultural Institute", implying that the ICI is no longer), and [4] (which mentions the standardised orthography as "ICI (Inuit Cultural Institute) Roman or Syllabic Inuktitut"). Also, Inuktitut syllabics (which mentions "the Language Commission of the Inuit Cultural Institute" in connection with 1976), but then, Wikipedia itself is not a primary source. Finally, a brief mention in a book: [5].

For what it's worth, Louis-Jacques Dorais's The Inuit Language of Igloolik N.W.T. (Le Parler Inuit d’Igloolik T.N.O., IGLULINGMIUT UQAUSINGIT, ᐃᒡᓗᓕᖕᒥᐅᑦ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖏᑦ; Université Laval, Québec, 1978; ISBN 2-920016-00-8) appears to use "ƚ" (with horizontal bar). It states that "The orthography is that approved by Inuit Tapirisat of Canada. The letter written ƚ stands for a voiceless l." I'm not sure what "the letter written ƚ" implies; it's possible that it means "the orthography approved by ITK contains no letter for this sound; we will write it ƚ", "the orthography contains a letter which we cannot reproduce due to technical limitations of the printing process and/or font used; we will therefore write the letter ƚ", "the orthography contains a letter ƚ which you may be unfamiliar with; will explain the value of this letter", or something else.

Mick Mallon's Introductory Inuktitut series uses l with a tilde running from \-\, i.e. reflected from the usual /-/ (~) shape. However, it also uses the letter ŋ, which may be helpful while learning (e.g. to recognise ŋŋ as a geminated ŋ; the relationship is a bit more obscure in the standard spellings nng vs. ng) but isn't standard ICI - so I'm not sure how much weight to attach to its spelling of the phoneme /ɬ/. (And in any case, it's possible that the spelling was influenced by the letters available in the fonts he had.) Also, where he doesn't use the usual font for Inuktitut but some other font, the letter may appear as "&" - for example, in the Exercises or Intermediate Inuktitut.

So, in summary, the impression I have received is that the ICI was real and did come up with an orthography, but it's not clear to me which Roman letter they proposed for the phoneme /ɬ/. And that in practice, printed texts may adhere more or less closely to the ICI standard orthography, and that the letter for /ɬ/ in particular seems to be chosen more by ease of typing or representation in fonts than by adherence to the standard. -- pne (talk) 08:35, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Whoa! I didn’t expect such a detailed response :-) — Timwi (talk) 13:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28[edit]

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Thanks for the notification! (And yes, I know you won’t read this; it’s for my own reference.) -- pne (talk) 20:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 2[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Huangpu District, Guangzhou, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Transcription (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Thanks! I hadn’t checked the target of the link to see whether it’s a disambiguation page. Fixed now. -- pne (talk) 11:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Inuit languages[edit]

Hi, I changed it to the more generic fish. After looking at some sources it could mean salmon, trout, char or just fish depending on the dialect. It would appear that the word does not really differentiate between different types of Salmonidae. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Bishop’s Stortford[edit]

Confused, what's the point of creating Bishop’s Stortford? Nyttend (talk) 23:32, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I looked for the article under that lemma and didn’t find it, so I created a redirect. It’s the 21st century now and Unicode is getting more widely used, and I tend to expect “proper” typography to work in more and more places. -- pne (talk) 06:25, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Pngslimmer[edit]

A tag has been placed on File:Pngslimmer, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

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Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


After writing Kuspuk, I saw that it had been requested at WP:RA, and that you requested it! Just wanted to let you know that (four years later) we have the article. :) Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)