User talk:Double sharp

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Eric Scerri[edit]

Hey, did you see Scerri's post? I thought you may be interested-ish, although I see you may be busy. You can e-mail him at scerri AT chem.ucla.edu

regards, Sandbh (talk) 06:24, 18 April 2014 (UTC)"

(removed "at" sign to avoid spammers) Double sharp (talk) 06:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I saw his post. I think we didn't really have an objection to his proposal, just his argument including the Figure 5? Double sharp (talk) 06:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
I think he included figure 5 to show---logically---what a 32 column table looks like if you go Sc-Y-La, and do nothing else (i.e. you keep the d-block intact as in the 18 column version). The result is "stupid" since the elements are no longer ordered in Z sequence. This then forces one to split the d-block as shown in figure 6, (which I have seen in at least one text book) in order to maintain the Z sequence. Splitting the d block may seem extreme; on the other hand, there is not much fuss about splitting the 1s block, and moving He over Ne in the p-block. However, He over Ne makes more sense from the pov of the chemistry involved---the position of an element in the PT is not solely determined by electron configuration, as I recall Jensen argued. Same argument applied to Lu Lr (noting greater similarities of Lu to Y) then results in figure 6. I don't see any logical flaws in his argument, but there is more to it than logic. Sandbh (talk) 01:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I hear you. Will respond soon. Double sharp (talk) 05:36, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
...I am aware that this does not conform to most accepted definitions of "soon". I must have forgotten about it. I will probably reply tomorrow. Double sharp (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
And here is the long-awaited response! (Link to the thread at WT:CHEM.)
Actually, on reading your comment, I agree with you. But I wouldn't put so much of an accent on Fig.5 as he does, because it is, as you say, a "stupid" PT with the elements not going in order of Z. If I were writing this as an argument I would raise it only to dismiss it.
He does treat splitting the d-block as being asymmetrical, and raises that possibility only to dismiss it immediately. He over Ne makes chemical sense, however: and therefore I think splitting the d-block, extreme as it is, can't be dismissed that easily. You would need an examination of chemical properties to see if it is warranted: Jensen does this, and comes to the conclusion that it is not. That is IMHO a better response to the Sc/Y/La/Ac option.
Now of course he only examines group 3 as a transition metal group, and therefore compares it with the following d-block groups. Since the differentiating electrons between the group 3 elements and the previous ones are all d-electrons, regardless of whether you consider La/Ac or Lu/Lr, it should probably be taken as a d-block group and judged with the other d-block groups. You could also potentially examine group 3 as a main group, in which case Sc/Y/La/Ac brings out more similarities with the group 1 and group 2 metals. But then you are treading into allowing bifurcation, which leads to the Bayley and Zmaczyński PT, or the short period-table where all the groups bifurcate, because Be and Mg can lead to both an s-block-like (Ca/Sr/Ba/Ra) or d-block-like (Zn/Cd/Hg/Cn) trend. And that argument works for group 4, etc., too, as R8R said when I asked him on his talk page (User talk:R8R Gtrs#Some thoughts on group 3). So Sc/Y/Lu/Lr is probably better if you don't want to show all these secondary relationships. Double sharp (talk) 07:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

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Fixed Double sharp (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Uniform dual faces[edit]

Hi DS, I was thinking something that's been missing for a long time on the uniform star duals are the faces, important since they are hard to see due to intersections. They are given here[1], but I'm unsure an easy way to generate them quickly, or at least I can't do that now, but I can see how to do it. Are you interested in adding them, from stella or where ever, now or sometime? Tom Ruen (talk) 11:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Stella can generate them easily (and even will highlight the visible parts for you). I could do this now (and perhaps show pictures of them with one face highlighted?) The hemi duals could be problematic though: I could still highlight a face, but Stella appears to instead show the face for the final finite stellation of the core polyhedron instead. Double sharp (talk) 11:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
p.s. I really think it makes sense to merge dual stars with uniform stars, since they are integral pairs, and the duals are pretty much unimportant except in relation to their duals. Tom Ruen (talk) 12:41, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Absolutely: it's just that you only merged one, and it looked weird. I think we should merge them all. Double sharp (talk) 12:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I did one for an example, and I think its okay to do gradually. Tom Ruen (talk) 12:46, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
OK, I understand what you intended now. Your e.s. "article so small..." probably led to my misinterpretation that you were just talking about DU69. Doing it gradually should be fine.
(BTW, how should I show the faces for the hemi duals? Since they are infinite.) Double sharp (talk) 12:49, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Looks like you can't, and not shown here [2]. Tom Ruen (talk) 12:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Actually it is possible: Octahemioctacron Octahemioctacron hl.png Double sharp (talk) 13:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Fluorine Revert[edit]

Hey, quick question. Are the summary sections such at the start of Fluorine not supposed to be sourced if the information is below and sourced? I assume if the answer is yes, then anything in the summary should also below in the corresponding section?Hardkhora (talk) 18:21, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

It can either be this way, or it can be that everything in the summary section is explicitly sourced. (Not just one or two sentences: it has to be consistent.) And indeed, our Manual of Style says "Apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead [summary] if it is not covered in the remainder of the article". Double sharp (talk) 01:28, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Great, thank you for that.Hardkhora (talk) 14:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

No w what?[edit]

Something good happened. No what? -DePiep (talk) 00:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

WikiCup 2014 April newsletter[edit]

Round 3 of the 2014 WikiCup has just begun; 32 competitors remain. Pool G's Oh, better far to live and die / Under the brave black flag I fly... Adam Cuerden (submissions) was Round 2's highest scorer, with a large number of featured picture credits. In March/April, he restored star charts from Urania's Mirror, lithographs of various warships (such as SMS Gefion) and assorted other historical media. Second overall was Pool E's Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions), whose featured list Silver certificate (United States) contains dozens of scans of banknotes recently promoted to featured picture status. Third was Pool G's United States ChrisGualtieri (submissions) who has produced a large number of good articles, many, including Falkner Island, on Connecticut-related topics. Other successful participants included Rhodesia Cliftonian (submissions), who saw three articles (including the top-importance Ian Smith) through featured article candidacies, and Washington, D.C. Caponer (submissions), who saw three lists (including the beautifully-illustrated list of plantations in West Virginia) through featured list candidacies. High-importance good articles promoted this round include narwhal from Canada Reid,iain james (submissions), tiger from Wales Cwmhiraeth (submissions) and The Lion King from Minas Gerais Igordebraga (submissions). We also saw our first featured topic points of the competition, awarded to Nepal Czar (submissions) and Indiana Red Phoenix (submissions) for their work on the Sega Genesis topic. No points have been claimed so far for good topics or featured portals.

192 was our lowest qualifying score, again showing that this WikiCup is the most competitive ever. In previous years, 123 (2013), 65 (2012), 41 (2011) or 100 (2010) secured a place in Round 3. Pool H was the strongest performer, with all but one of its members advancing, while only the two highest scorers in Pools G and F advanced. At the end of June, 16 users will advance into the semi-finals. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to help keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talkemail), The ed17 (talkemail) and Miyagawa (talkemail) 17:57, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 10[edit]

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Fixed Double sharp (talk) 14:50, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Re: neptunium[edit]

yeah I'll try to work on it when I can. Sorry for the long delay btw. The project I was on at work was in major crunch time and it consumed most of my free time for the last four months or so. I'm not so busy now so I should be able to work on it some, but mainly on the weekends. I'll try to work on it as much as I can though. Thingg 23:57, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

No problem! Double sharp (talk) 05:31, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet for Wikiproject Elements at Wikimania 2014[edit]

Hi,

I noticed that you and a few others started work on a leaflet for Wikiproject Elements that would be printed at Wikimania 2014. I was wondering if there was any update on that.

Kind regards, Adikhajuria (talk) 19:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Nobody responded, but I think the contents of the leaflet could be written shortly based on preëxisting material in project space. Double sharp (talk) 04:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

A question about oxidation states page[edit]

I have a question about this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_oxidation_states_of_the_elements

This page says that- 1) Krypton (Kr) may have the oxidation number of +2. 2) Oxidation number of ruthenium, Xenon, Osmium, Iridium, Plutonium, Curium and Hassium may be +8. I cannot understand these two things. How can a inert gas have a oxidation state at all, and how can the oxidation number of an element be +8? Please explain me these things or improve the article if necessary.

Ravishankar Joshi, An Indian Gujarati — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravijoshi99 (talkcontribs) 07:31, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

The noble gases are not completely chemically inert, and have been known to form noble gas compounds since 1962 with the discovery of xenon hexafluoroplatinate. Since then, argon, krypton, xenon, and radon have been found to be able to form compounds. Naturally, in these compounds, they will have nonzero oxidation states: e.g. the oxidation state of Kr in KrF2 is +2. (It is a neutral compound, and F must have oxidation state −1: thus Kr has to be in the +2 state.) In the argon compound HArF, argon is still in the 0 oxidation state, and therefore it's not shown in the page (H: +1, F: −1, Ar: 0). No helium and neon compounds are known yet, although FHeO is expected to be possible.
The oxidation state of an element may be +8, and perhaps even higher (although no examples of a higher oxidation state are known yet, [IrO4]+ is regarded as a good candidate for the +9 state). You just need to oxidize it enough: O and F are particularly good at this sort of thing, although oxygen is better at getting elements to the +8 state simply because it's hard to fit eight fluorine atoms around a metal atom. The elements you listed achieve this state in compounds like RuO4. Here the oxidation state of Ru is +8, because RuO4 is a neutral compound and O must have oxidation state –2 here. Double sharp (talk) 07:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for giving me an answer[edit]

Thank you for answering to me in detail.

I have two more questions- 1. How can Sodium (Na) be (-1)? 2. Is there any shortcut method for balancing redox equations quickly? (There is one such for simple (non-redox) chemical equations. source: http://www.nyu.edu/classes/tuckerman/adv.chem/lectures/lecture_2/node3.html) (By the way I am a student in science stream.)

Ravishankar Joshi --Ravijoshi99 (talk) 13:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Na in the −1 state is one of those rarities that you will almost certainly never find outside a chemistry lab. Here it accepts an electron to form the Na anion, with a filled 3s subshell. Naturally, it is a very strong reducing agent, and compounds with this anion are mostly very unstable barring exceptional circumstances (e.g. [Na(2,2,2-crypt)]+Na, where the cryptand isolates and stabilizes the Na+ from the Na). Compounds where the alkali metals form anions are called alkalides: among the more amusing such compounds is H+Na, "inverse sodium hydride"!
I'd imagine the method outlined at the page you linked to would also work for redox equations: if I'm not mistaken, in the last equation on the page, SO2 is oxidized and O2 is reduced. Balancing only involves the relative quantities of each element on either side of the equation, and their oxidation states aren't relevant, so I think it should work the same way for redox equations. (Naturally, the charge on both sides is also going to have to be balanced, but you probably know that already.) Double sharp (talk) 13:58, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

No, the problem I have with the shortcut method for redox is following: The question does not always have all reactants / resultants. i.e. We are not always given H+/OH- and H2O. e.g. 1) S + HNO3 ---> H2SO4 + NO

    2) P4 + NO3-  ---> PO4-3 + NO2
    3) FeS + H2O2 ---> FeO + SO2

We have not been given H+ ion on any of the sides in any of these equations. So, the algebraic method, I think, cannot be used on these equations. This is the problem I have with shortcut method on such equations. (One more thing that I should add -- no textbooks tell us about this algebraic method. They simply say, "The chemical equations can be balanced only by trial and error." They have to be updated, don't they?) Ravishankar Joshi Ravijoshi99 (talk) 15:50, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Since only H and O could be absent, and only if they are in H+ or H2O (is that what you meant?), the other elements present can be balanced first: then you can use the info from there to figure out what is missing, I think. Or you can deduce where the water must be if you recognize the reaction types.
(1) and (2) are nonmetals reacting with nitric acid (in (2) the H+ ions are omitted). There doesn't seem to be a unique solution for (1) if water is also a product, so it is probably a complete reaction and can be balanced algebraically. (And I'd probably write S8 instead of S, but it doesn't really matter.) (2) needs water on the RHS or else it can't be balanced.
For (3) there needs to be hydrogen on the RHS: it must be in water or else it wouldn't have been omitted, if I understand you correctly.
Well, I guess if you're in a hurry trial and error could work better than algebra, especially for simple reactions. For example, in something like Re + F2 → ReF7, it should be quite recognizable that the coefficients have to be 2, 7, 2, by balancing one at a time quickly: Re must be the same on both sides: assuming it is 1, F2 has to have coefficient 7/2, and you can double this to get integers. In the end I think it just comes down to practice.
BTW, the usual place to ask questions on WP is the reference desk. Double sharp (talk) 06:56, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry for asking too many questions. I am now going to put this question on reference desk. May I ask you one more question? Do you know anybody on Wikipedia, who can answer a question regarding Mathematics (Calculus)? (Please tell me the exact use of talk pages, as I am new at WP.) Ravishankar Joshi Ravijoshi99 (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Generally, if you post on my talk page, it means you are talking to me specifically, usually about something I've done on WP. (An exception would be if you're responding to someone else's post in a conversation.) Article talk pages are more for discussion related to improving the article: general questions that are meant to help one understand something would usually go to the reference desk, though, I think. For further info, I think Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines would help. (There's no need to be sorry for asking too many questions – we all learn that way, don't we? But if you post to the reference desk, you'll get more answers because many editors will be there to answer your questions, whereas if you post here you'll most likely get only me.)
For a mathematics question, I suppose the usual venue would be the mathematics reference desk. Double sharp (talk) 08:29, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

would you like to join Chinese zh:Wikipedia:WikiProject Polyhedra ?[edit]

would you like to join Chinese zh:Wikipedia:WikiProject Polyhedra ?zh:Wikipedia:多面體專題

(sorry, my english not good)該專題在中文維基百科已經成立幾年了,但遲遲沒有成員加入,我看到你在英文維基百科Wikipedia:WikiProject Polyhedra是成員之一,且您在Wikipedia:Babel表示您可以"以熟練的中文進行交流。",希望您可以加入中文zh:Wikipedia:多面體專題的維護行列,您意下如何?

謝謝

I need your help.

thank you. --Yu-Fan 宇帆 (talk) 03:05, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll go and take a look. Double sharp (talk) 05:36, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I probably won't be able to do much more than look there for another few weeks or months, though. Double sharp (talk) 14:01, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

June 2014[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Neptunium may have broken the syntax by modifying 14 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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All of these are actually greater-than signs. Double sharp (talk) 08:02, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 29[edit]

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Neptunium (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Fixed Double sharp (talk) 12:26, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shogi[edit]

Hi Double Sharp. Thanks for adding your name in support of Wikipedia: WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shogi. I see from your userpage that you are not only a shogi player, but also an experienced editor. Of course, assistance from anyone (shogi player or not) interested in improving and enhancing shogi's presence on Wikipedia is appreciated, but any guidance and suggestions we can get from experienced editors such as yourself is definitely most welcome. Face-smile.svg - Marchjuly (talk) 08:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! (I'm not a good shogi player at all, but I'll be willing to help as much as I can.) Double sharp (talk) 06:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

WikiCup 2014 June newsletter[edit]

After an extremely close race, Round 3 is over. 244 points secured a place in Round 4, which is comparable to previous years- 321 was required in 2013, while 243 points were needed in 2012. Pool C's Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions) was the round's highest scorer, mostly due to a 32 featured pictures, including both scans and photographs. Also from Pool C, Scotland Casliber (submissions) finished second overall, claiming three featured articles, including the high-importance Grus (constellation). Third place was Pool B's Colorado Sturmvogel_66 (submissions), whose contributions included featured articles Russian battleship Poltava (1894) and Russian battleship Peresvet. Pool C saw the highest number of participants advance, with six out of eight making it to the next round.

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Your GA nomination of Neptunium[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Neptunium you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Parcly Taxel -- Parcly Taxel (talk) 05:00, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Neptunium[edit]

The article Neptunium you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Neptunium for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Parcly Taxel -- Parcly Taxel (talk) 07:42, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Whoo yeaah![edit]

That's awesome Neptunium passed its GA! Thanks for all the work you put into it and for dealing with the nomination process. I'm sorry I haven't been on lately, I've been crazy busy in real life and it looks like it's probably going to be that way for a while unfortunately (like probably through at least the end of August, maybe longer; not really sure right now) But yeah, when things do calm down again, I'll definitely be up for doing some more element articles if you're not to busy then either. Thanks again for all your help and hard work with the article! Thingg 00:06, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! It wouldn't have passed without your help.
I think the next ones I'll do are flerovium, thorium, and iron, but they'll have to wait for some time. (Fl will definitely be first: I'm almost done, with one section not yet rewritten. Th and Fe will take a considerable amount of time.) Double sharp (talk) 04:50, 12 July 2014 (UTC)