User talk:Redrose64

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Redrose64 uses the Wikibreak Switch template, and plans to notify anybody at an instant if he/she decides to take a wikibreak.
Hello, Redrose64! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Button sig.png or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! --Jza84 |  Talk  13:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
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Invasion of Time edits[edit]

The link you asked for[edit]

Sorry I'm bad at using wikipedia and messed up adding the cite, I asked Northern the other day about Bolton's Platform 2 and they replied to me


Seasons Greeting to you and yours[edit]

To you[edit]

Weihnachten10.gif Holiday Cheer
Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys! Paine

The Monk[edit]

I was sitting with a high steward, discussing Anglo-Saxon monks. The name we couldn't remember was Nennius. All the best: Rich Farmbrough04:39, 22 April 2014 (UTC).


Hello, Redrose64. Please check your email – you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

—Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:40, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't take Rail, but I do subscribe to The Railway Magazine, and occasionally get Modern Railways and Today's Railways Europe. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Hmm. Do any of their recent issues mention Meldon Viaduct? According to Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells (I paraphrase I think he might have been from Rutland or somewhere! ;)) writing to Rail, Dartmoor National Park Authority and/or English Heritage have stated that the old LSWR route from Exeter to Plymouth couldn't be re-opened because of Meldon Viaduct's condition and/or status as a scheduled monument. I'd love to track that statement down and add it to the article, assuming DoTW hasn't got the wrong end of the stick. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:52, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
HJ - you're older than I thought! "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" is a character in Take It From Here, circa 1953. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:00, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) The reference you are looking for is in RAIL 743 (March 5 - 18 2014), page 53, in an article by Richard Clinnick entitled "Reconnecting the South West". The relevant paragraph states that "Mike Hendick, communications officer for Dartmoor National Park, says the viaduct is a Scheduled Ancient Monument, which would mean the involvement of English Heritage, the government advisor on the historic environment". Hendick doesn't say that reopening would be impossible but that it would be "a monstrous undertaking" due to the compulsory purchase of land which would be required (page 54). The article also mentions a "West Devon County Committee report" dated 19 November 2010 which referred to "the need to improve the track to overcome potential weight issues on the Meldon viaduct" (page 57). Finally, the local MP, Anne Marie Morris, pointed out that the viaduct was "refurbished in the mid 1990s, and prior to take had been used by lorries and a rail headshunt until (I believe) 1990" (page 55). Lamberhurst (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Coopersale page deletion close[edit]

Thanks for your work on Wikipedia. I notice you did a 'Procedural close' on the 'Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coopersale Halt railway station'. I think this happened as the proposal was done by one user and finished by another. What is the status of this now, if closed can the deletion discussion be reactivated / restarted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

It was not a formal closure, but a !vote - a suggestion that it be closed, because procedure laid down at WP:AFDHOWTO had not been followed. If I had been formally closing the incomplete AFD, I would have followed the procedure laid down at WP:AFD/AI, and the AFD discussion page would then look something like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:47, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Change font[edit]

Do you know how to change the font in the edit window? It still isn't big enough for me. Plus, my years of using text windows on Linux makes me wish for monotype. Bgwhite (talk) 07:56, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I assume that you wish to change the font size, and specifically in the large multi-line edit window as used for regular editing, rather than the single-line windows (such as those used for the edit summary).
form#editform textarea#wpTextbox1 {
  font-size: 150%;
in Special:MyPage/common.css should do it. If it doesn't work in all the places that it should, try removing either form#editform or textarea#wpTextbox1 (but not both). Other effects may be achieved by use of other properties; those listed in sections 15.3 through 15.7 (inclusive) at CSS 2.1 Fonts are the ones that you might find particularly useful. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much. form#editform textarea#wpTextbox1 is what I was after. I've missed my DejaVu Sans Mono. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bgwhite (talkcontribs) 22:23, 24 April 2014‎
If that font is installed on your machine, you could use
form#editform textarea#wpTextbox1 {
  font-family: 'DejaVu Sans Mono';
the quotes are mandatory for a multi-word font name. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:32, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
It is on my machine and that is what I originally installed via the css file. I've been using it for almost ten years on the linux side. My precious. Bgwhite (talk) 23:12, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Yoko Ono edits[edit]

Could you leave the citation methods alone? The article is in the midst of a 2nd GAN, and the presiding reviewer does not like sfn's. He reads them as links and get confused. If you feel strongly that he's in the wrong, please argue with XXSNUGGUMSXX directly on his Talk page. I will keep going on the GAN work. thanks!--Aichik (talk) 13:26, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

@Aichik: It was XXSNUGGUMSXX who I was assisting. They left a request for help at Help talk:Cite errors#Yoko Ono. I was responding to that request, as was John of Reading. Also, I cannot find any mention of {{sfn}} at Talk:Yoko Ono/GA4. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:33, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
It was under "John Lennon" and in the "Sourcing" section. You seem to have addressed it, hopefully XXSNUGGUMSXX will get the aspects, which apply to many of bulleted points about sourcing, he doesn't understand and your changes will help.--Aichik (talk) 14:28, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


Do we have the numbers for this?©Geni (talk) 17:01, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

@Geni: If you mean "how many will be there", it's a variable. Four have signed up (including you and me), but that doesn't mean that four will be there. If RexxS comes, that usually means that HJ Mitchell will attend too; and MistyMorn often signs at the last minute, sometimes as an IP. We might get Rich Farmbrough if he also visits his sister. Other semi-regulars include GeoffH 112SU, Grandiose, Jarry1250, Mervyn, Stemonitis, John of Reading. I'm hoping that KTC will make it some day. But don't worry, I'll be there. The fewest we've had was three, at Oxford 8. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I am planning on being there. I need a break from Wikipedia. All the best: Rich Farmbrough17:41, 26 April 2014 (UTC).
@Rich Farmbrough: A break? You've just come back from 12 months off. Denied. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:48, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
The only number you need to know is 62. --RexxS (talk) 21:45, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I definitely plan to attend in the near future, but unfortunately have other plans today. Let me know when you have a date for Oxford 16. -- KTC (talk) 09:10, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Part-timer! :P I'll be there. Wasn't sure I'd be up to it, but I'm fine now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:05, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
I'll be there (but not from the start). Just leaving home now, best guess eta is about 3pm. Thryduulf (talk) 10:57, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
I will be right behind you! All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:09, 27 April 2014 (UTC).


6–10 August 2014. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

British Rail Class 68[edit]

Thank you for your edits to British Rail Class 68. Biscuittin (talk) 10:16, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Chuckle that leads to a question[edit]

Hello R. First off this edit summary cracked me up. It also reminded me of a question that I had been meaning to ask you. A year or so ago I noticed that the Counties of the United Kingdom were being added to the text of various biography articles as well as their infoboxes. As you know I have respect for WP:ENGVAR so I have wondered if use of the county name is common practice in the UK. Over here I can't think of an example of a county name being used to describe where a person is from. The one exception might be if the county is notorious for some reason. OTOH I can't remember a conversation where I told someone "I am from Conifer, Jefferson County, Colorado" (USA, Earth, Sol, Mutter's Spiral) :-) Now, I am not proposing to change any policies I'm just curious. I am digging through my shelves to pull together some of my favorite Bob Hoskins performances for viewing this weekend. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 02:21, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) In some U.S. states, it is common to say that you live or come from a given county. Virginia is one example. Government in Virginia is organized at a county level, so school districts and local governments are often county-wide, with few self-governing cities or towns. I expect there are other U.S. states in which this is the case. I can't speak to the U.K. situation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:26, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks J. Good to learn something new! Would you expect to see that in a written bio? For instance when I see coverage of US Senate races from Virginia the county isn't mentioned. The states that don't use the term "county" can have some interesting turns of phrase. I lived in Ketchikan, Alaska for a few years and worked for the local government offices of the Ketchikan-Gateway Borough. Thus, I worked for the KGB :-) Thanks again. MarnetteD | Talk 04:40, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
The main problem with British counties is that their boundaries have changed frequently, particularly in the last 50 years; it's made worse because counties have several purposes, and the boundaries for one purpose are not necessarily the same as those for another purpose. For example, Blackley was (prior to 1974) in Lancashire for geographical purposes, but in the County Borough of Manchester for administrative purposes. The Royal Mail used their own system of counties, which were essentially the geographical county of the sorting office for the address concerned: for example, Highclere, which is geographically and administratively in Hampshire, is postally in Berkshire because its mail is sorted at Newbury.
Much of the pre-1974 situation (and a whole lot more) is covered at articles like Historic counties of England. Several Acts of Parliament in the early 1970s (such as the Local Government Act 1972 (which covered England and Wales), the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 and the Local Government Act (Northern Ireland) 1972) attempted to rationalise the situation, by creating a uniform two-tier system of counties and their subdivisions (districts, London boroughs, metropolitan boroughs) for England; further Acts like the Local Government Act 1985 and the Local Government Act 1992 served to complicate things once again.
In England, the effects of the 1972 Act came in 1974, when some counties (like Middlesex, Rutland, Westmorland) were completely abolished; others (like Berkshire and Lancashire) were reduced in area; some (like Cambridgeshire and Oxfordshire) were increased in area; and still more (like Greater Manchester and Merseyside) were created as entirely new entities. Something even more drastic happened in Scotland the following year - only Fife kept its name and approximate boundaries, everything else changed. The effect of the 1985 Act (which came into force in 1986) was to do away with six of the counties created in 1974 (such as Greater Manchester); and the 1992 Act allowed some more counties, both old (like Berkshire) and new (like Cleveland) to be abolished.
These changes gave rise to resentment (and even anger) that persists to this day, and that is the root of the Lancashire/Greater Manchester/none-of-the-above problem for Blackley. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:56, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed reply. To your point, I have seen more than one article where editors keep changing the county and now I understand why. I hope you enjoy your weekend. MarnetteD | Talk 15:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
For biogs, we should go by sources. If reliable source X says "John Doe was born in Lancashire" and reliable source Y says "John Doe was born in Greater Manchester", it's difficult to avoid WP:NOR issues. But if they say "John Doe was born in Blackley, Lancashire" and "John Doe was born in Blackley, Greater Manchester" we can at least go by the common factor and write "John Doe was born in Blackley" which satisfies WP:V and WP:NPOV.
A significant part of pre-1974 Lancashire was lost to other counties: the pink bits in this map were part of Lancashire before 1974. Of these, the northern pink bit (which includes Ulverston, birthplace of Stan Laurel) was transferred to Cumbria; the western third of the southern pink bit was transferred to Merseyside, and the eastern two-thirds of the southern pink bit was transferred to Greater Manchester. Three other counties (Cheshire, Derbyshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire) also lost territory to Greater Manchester in 1974. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:04, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
I always appreciate how much I learn from you. Your apple (the one with the face cut into it from The Eleventh Hour (Doctor Who)) is in the mail. Thanks again for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 16:19, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I just remembered that there was another bit of Lancashire that was lost in 1974: two towns in the southern pink bit (Warrington and Widnes) were transferred to Cheshire. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:30, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

LMR 600 Gordon[edit]

Thanks for your edit. What does "as of" in brackets do? Biscuittin (talk) 07:56, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

@Biscuittin: Visually, "{{As of|2005}}" looks like "As of 2005", so it might seem redundant to simply putting "As of 2005" as plain text (without the braces and pipe): but it also places the page into hidden Category:Articles containing potentially dated statements from 2005 (and also Category:All articles containing potentially dated statements). The purposes of these are described on the template page; on the cat pages; and at WP:DATED. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:26, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Biscuittin (talk) 15:51, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

not notable[edit]

I added The Absolution of ZERO Published by Neighborhood Publishing. Please remove the deletion tab — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mollybell (talkcontribs) 23:34, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

@Mollybell: Do you mean this edit? As noted in the edit summary, that was a WP:PROD. The linked page has information on what to do about it; specifically, WP:DEPROD. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:48, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
Thanxs for telling me how to place templates without showing the results of the templates! Face-smile.svg Cheers!-- Allied Rangoontalk smile 20:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png The Technical Barnstar
Much appreciate your assistance. Thanks! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 06:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

One useful thing I had on monobook was

addOnloadHook(function() {
  addPortletLink('p-cactions','','GB ref','ca-gb ref');

I can't get it to work in cologne. Do you know how? If I could get it to link at the top in the blue strip next to MAIN PAGE ABOUT HELP. Also do you know how to show the FA and GA stars at the top of the page on cologne?♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: Unfortunately, javascript is not one of my skills. I know enough to distinguish it from CSS, and much of the syntax is similar to C (which I do know). But that p-cactions is a nice clue, so I've used that to start with.
In Monobook skin, there's some HTML <div id="p-cactions" class="portlet" role="navigation">...</div> which encloses the tabs from "article" to "watch" inclusive; the id= here matches, so my guess is that your code adds another tab to that menu. Testing it in my .js file confirms that a tab marked "gb ref" is added. Cologne Blue doesn't have tabs, but the equivalent links occur in two (different) sets: one at the bottom, which don't seem to be easily modifiable, and those in the sidebar under both "Edit" (enclosed by <div class="portlet" id="p-cactions" role="navigation">...</div>) and "This page" (enclosed by <div class="portlet" id="p-pageoptions" role="navigation">...</div>). Notice that the first of these two has id="p-cactions" just like the MonoBook one. Testing, I find that the new link "GB ref" is added at the bottom of the "Edit" set, immediately above the heading "This page". I would say, therefore, that provided that you have added it to either User:Dr. Blofeld/cologneblue.js or to User:Dr. Blofeld/common.js (but not both), it should work without alteration.
FA and GA icons I don't know about, although I did notice their absence. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:14, 6 May 2014 (UTC) For testing: small article with coords.
Thanks, it works now.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
@Dr. Blofeld: Regarding WP:VPT#Cologne Blue, where I put "The grey line isn't a grey line at all - it's a zero-height box with a grey border. When there is a Sitenotice or a CentralNotice, the box expands to accommodate the notice." - there's a CentralNotice up now, it's the one that says "Our Privacy Policy is changing on 6 June 2014. To learn more, click here." You should have found that this notice has caused the grey line to expand to a grey-bordered box; and since the CentralNotice also has a border, this produces a broadly-spaced double-border effect. I don't think that any harm will be caused by adding
#siteNotice { border: none; }
to User:Dr. Blofeld/cologneblue.css. This will suppress the outer grey border, and when there are no CentralNotices (or you have dismissed them), the grey line won't appear either. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:54, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks. One last thing, can "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" be replaced with a similar grey line underneath the article titles?♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:51, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

There you go --Redrose64 (talk) 10:34, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks great! Recommend trying it with a DaunPenh font on Firefox!♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Can you add a line break between the line and the first part of the text? I tried adding a break but it didn't work.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:58, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I used margin-bottom: 1em; - you can adjust that provided that 1em is replaced by a valid length measurement. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:16, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks good, I've tweaked it to 0.5 em. Is it possible to have a hide/show option for the side item bar so that you can click "hide" while reading to the full page screen and then click show when you want to navigate? Where it says "Find" would probably be a good place for a hide/show option of the whole side bar. It's an option which I'm surprised isn't available in preferences.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

That's getting into Javascript territory, which is not me at all. Try WP:VPT again, or perhaps WT:US. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:05, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll leave you alone now :-)♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:23, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Gatwick Airport station[edit]

G'day, according to the article, a new Platform 7 was opened at Gatwick station a couple of months back. Cheers YSSYguy (talk) 10:38, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

In which case National Rail Enquiries are out of date. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:49, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Googling "Gatwick airport Platform 7" brings up heaps of news stories about the opening. I am on the other side of the world and am not really in a position to visit the station at the moment to check; all the flights to England have already left for the day :-) YSSYguy (talk) 10:53, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Higham railway station, Kent[edit]

Concerning your revision of my edit to the above on the grounds of "unsourced - privacy concerns":

I freely admit that my edit was unsourced and added on the spur of the moment. However, I'm not entirely certain how it constitutes a privacy concern, given that we're talking about Dicken's Swiss chalet, and that neither he nor it are living persons. At any rate, it is an undeniable fact that at some point after Dickens' death the chalet was moved from Gad's Hill to Eastgate House, Rochester where it resides to this day, although I do not know exactly when or by whom. I shall attempt to find a source for this information if I can fit it into my busy schedule of idleness. Thank you for your time. Lee M (talk) 01:57, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

@Lee M: It's a privacy concern because the implication is that it now stands on private land. We don't seem to have an article on Eastgate House, Rochester (or even Eastgate House), so it's probably not a public building, and its owners are almost certainly still alive. WP:BLP doesn't only apply to biographical articles. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:28, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I've started an article on the house in Rochester. The chalet was moved from Gad's Hill to the house site in the 1960s. Not sure User:Lee M why you would mention it in the railway article but it's in the source here. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I just thought that since it was mentioned in the station article in connection with Gad's Hill people might think it was still there, which would be misleading. Lee M (talk) 19:58, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Looking for a connection[edit]

Here is what I was trying to do I wanted to see if these two people have any strong connection User;Barney the barney barney and User;TheRedPenOfDoom (no ping). I see they have some recent history and the reason is I need to see if TRPoD has an underlying reason for is participating in the current AfD. Valoem talk contrib 19:28, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

This is related to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 126#How to search through User history?. I know of these people, but I don't know what "the current AfD" might be. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Update!![edit]

Oh him!! The guy who thinks you can open a branch in its original form with three post preservation stations in it!! Of course!! Britmax (talk) 19:29, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Caledonian Road Station[edit]

Hi Redrose64

I reverted the edit that removed the platform photos from the Caledonian Road Tube Station. I understand your perspective that there's a Commons gallery that shows these. The reason I disagree with their removal is that one of the defining features of the Yerkes era stations on the underground is the unique platform tiling that each station had. Ideally, each station along the central part of the Piccadilly line and some of the Northern Line stations should have a platform photo because clicking each station along the line could allow a user to see how they differ. Perhaps a compromise could be ONE photo of the tiling. I reverted it but I'd like your perspective on how to proceed next in a way that doesn't have too much but makes this important detail easy to see. Dawg161 (talk) 22:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

The Yerkes tiling is indeed distinctive, but it is not mentioned anywhere in the article's text. Of the four captions for these images, only one actually mentions the tiling - and there, it doesn't describe anything about the tiling. The captions read: (i) "Eastbound platform (actually northbound here) looking south"; (ii) "Westbound platform (actually southbound here) looking north"; (iii) "Roundel on the westbound platform"; (iv) "The original station tiling on the westbound platform". The fourth image might be retained, but not as part of a gallery - use the normal "thumb" syntax for images. This is because the default width for gallery images is only 120px, and very little detail can be made out; but that for thumb images is 220px - and even so, some people consider that to be on the small side. Besides amplifying the caption (MOS:CAPTION), it also needs some supporting text outside of the caption, see WP:PERTINENCE. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:06, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
What do you think? Unfortunately the only picture I could find that had the tilework well displayed was in B&W, so I needed to use two photos to also show the color. I hope it's better! Dawg161 (talk) 01:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Updating maps in UK district/county nav boxes[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if you or somebody you know could use AWB or run a script or whatever to update the nav boxes of the districts of UK counties with the decent svg maps and oust the poor quality old pink maps like this. As far as I can see the naming convention is consistent. It's just I'm sure there's a way somebody can drill the lot instead of me doing it all manually!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: Sorry, I don't use AWB and don't write scripts. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:15, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps @Frietjes: could see a way to do it?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:27, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Browser problem[edit]

I have a problem with a Checkwiki link. In Chrome and Firefox, it works correctly. In IE, it doesn't work.
Goto this link. Under the more column, click on a link for an article that has a accent, such as "Ahmed Bey ben Mohamed Chérif" or "Ahmed Sékou Touré". In IE, nothing shows up.

The only thing I see different is what Firefox and IE thinks the name really is. This link will show what the browser thinks the title is.

Second question. Do you know of somebody that if given a list of users can tell if they have been active for the past year. I've gone to Legoktm, but he isn't responding. Bgwhite (talk) 06:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: To the first, an examination of the page source reveals <a href="ack.cgi?project=enwiki&view=detail&title=Ahmed Bey ben Mohamed Chérif">more</a> which has a dodgy query string, and not just because of the "é" - it's got spaces in. I suspect that the page should be using urlencode, as in &title={{urlencode:Ahmed Bey ben Mohamed Chérif|PATH}}&title=Ahmed%20Bey%20ben%20Mohamed%20Ch%C3%A9rif - notice how the "é" is encoded to "%C3%A9" and the spaces to "%20".
To the second, No, I don't, sorry. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:32, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Adding %20 to the non-wikipedia links made it work. The Wikipedia links didn't need %20 because they contained underscores for spaces. Grrrr, this was stupidity on my end. I ran the pages thru when originally doing the program. Wish I remember why I removed the %20. I ran the pages thru the validator again and found a missing quote symbol, minor database issue and one page I didn't use underscores. Bgwhite (talk) 05:54, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Why there are some categories that are categorized as hidden, that doesn't have a "hiddencat" in its text field?[edit]

For example this page, Category:Commons_category_with_local_link_same_as_on_Wikidata — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:51, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Any category that bears the {{tracking category}} template is automatically a hidden category. Category:Commons category with local link same as on Wikidata has {{Tracking category|category=no}} --Redrose64 (talk) 23:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit request[edit]

Hello Redrose64. Considering the inclusion of Barack Hussein Obama as an editing guideline example, it seems incumbent that the live example should conform with the guideline its use is intended to accentuate. Please consider answering this edit request. Thank you.—John Cline (talk) 21:21, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

foam fight in Fury From The Deep[edit]

If it was shown on screen (and there are two John Cura telesnaps to prove it was, one of Fraser Hines with a facefull of foam, the other of Debbie Watling sent flying and about to land in the stuff) then why does it not count as part of the plot? (talk) 08:39, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I don't doubt that it was shown on screen. The point is that in a section titled "Plot", which is supposed to summarise the key events of the story, it is trivial - totally unimportant to the plot. If the sequence had been cut entirely, the story would not have been changed at all.
By contrast, consider the green slime in The Green Death. This makes the miner ill, and is a crucial plot element. So, if the characters in Fury from the Deep had later broken out in some sort of rash, which was shown to have been caused by the foam; or if the bubbles, on bursting, had released some gas which choked the characters, then it would have been an event crucial to the plot. But no after-effects are described at all. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:11, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

In case you haven't already seen this[edit]

Hello R. A friend was telling me that a space suit used in a 60's Dr Who story had later been used in Star Wars. I hadn't heard that before and it seemed unlikely (though not impossible) given the number of years that had passed between the two. Naturally, I headed to the internets to see what I could find. Several sites mentioned it and the photo evidence was striking. Then I came across this mentioning the "high altitude Windak pressure suits" as used by the RAF. IMO it made sense that both the DW and the SW production staffs had gotten the suits from the RAF then SW getting them from the BBC. I don't think this merits mention in our Tenth Planet article but i thought I would bring it to your attention on the off chance that you hadn't already seen it. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 15:42, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

There was a case two or three years back where an IP was repeatedly trying to insert that space-suit information into one of our articles. His grounds for inclusion were "look at them - they're obviously the same ones"; my grounds for removal were WP:NOR and absence of WP:V. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
That was the correct action. With the detailed records that various DW historians have been able to dig into over the years I wonder if there is any mention of the connection to the RAF and these costumes in their somewhere. MarnetteD | Talk 18:44, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I've looked through my edits to The Tenth Planet (and also The Moonbase), but I can't find the add-and-revert concerned. Maybe it was a different story which the IP was trying to add the space-suits to. I do recall that the IP did provide a link - it was to the website of the suit manufacturers; the linked page didn't mention either Doctor Who or Star Wars, but did have some photos of fighter pilots (or perhaps hunky models) all suited up. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:14, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the support[edit]

re John Johnstone Smith (talk · contribs). I was wondering if persistent editing of a talk archive page would be considered by others as disruptive... At times I am tempted to create an RFC/U. At other times I think it's not worth the bother. Jeh (talk) 20:22, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I've just been looking at his edits to Talk:List of lost television broadcasts. His premise is utterly wrong. Not only did video recording technology not exist in 1936 (other than by filming a monitor screen connected to the camera output), live TV broadcasts still occur today - the news and sports broadcasts on BBC are predominantly live: the news has the odd pre-filmed report played in during transmission, the sports has instant replay. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:33, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I know. The same (multiple "not even wrong" premises) is true of his posts about Betamax. Do you think RFC/U is warranted? I don't have time to write one of those up for the next couple of days, but ... Jeh (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
It may be one route. I've never filed a WP:RFC/U before. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:22, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

North West meetups[edit]

Hi Redrose64, we'd agreed on RexxS's talk page that the Manchester meetups will be held on the 4th Sunday of the month, and Oxford on the 3rd. Actually each month we alternate between Manchester and Liverpool/Chester, and we sometimes meet on Saturdays.
Yesterday I arranged the next Liverpool and Manchester meetups - 21 June and 26 July. There shouldn't be a problem with July, but I wondered if you'd be OK with the Liverpool date in June. Because 1 June is a Sunday, the fourth Saturday and the fourth Sunday are in different weekends. So will there be a clash with your next southern meetup?
(For personal reasons, rescheduling it will not be convenient, especially as I won't be able to attend the July or August meetups either, but if it needs to change then it's not too late.)
You should come along, and one day I'll head down south! Cheers, Bazonka (talk) 17:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

@Bazonka: So far, the Oxford meetups have never been arranged more than one month in advance: at each one we agree the date for the next. By contrast, London meetups right through to September 2014 were scheduled as early as 27 January 2014 - almost eight months in advance. Somebody at London 81 (it might have been WereSpielChequers) suggested that monthly meetups should have priority of date over those which were less frequent.
Anyway, Oxford 16 is this coming Sunday, 25 May 2014; but we haven't yet set a date for Oxford 17 - the third Sunday, i.e. 15 May 2014, would suit me, but I shall put it to the others this Sunday. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
OK, that would be best, but I don't think it would be the end of the world if you chose 22 June. Cheers, Bazonka (talk) 18:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Walking etc[edit]

Hello there. Fine and fair enough re this but have you seen this person's other edits? They are seriously prolific and seem to get on crusades to make all transport articles meet some new spec of theirs. I don't think they have consensus for these changes and I'd be much happier if they did. I do feel a bit concerned about their current approach. Best wishes DBaK (talk)

@DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered: I've seen a lot of their edits, but by no means all. I don't agree with the majority, but I think that some of the things that I don't personally like might be agreeable to the majority. However, I have reverted some: for example, they were adding info on nearby public houses, and after after three or four reverts by me (example), they reverted some of their own similar edits (example) and stopped adding info for a while. Then they came back with something else to make mass edits about. I think it was changing the heading "Transport links" to "Connections". Some of their edits are harmless, but they are watchlist-cloggers. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:57, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
It's good to see you doing such a thorough clean-up; I now feel a little guilty at having done so little myself. I have gone so far as leaving a couple of messages at User Talk:Hopeful2014 as I am a bit worried that the overall problem, of making similar errors and problematic edits in multiple articles in quick succession, may continue. NebY (talk) 14:26, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
@NebY: It's not completely thorough; I've not done any pages that were not already on my watchlist, and I've not always removed the superfluous subheading "Buses" (compare this edit with this one). --Redrose64 (talk) 14:36, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh dear, that means I may have to do some work myself. I'll put it off a little bit longer; they might take corrective action on the remaining articles and respond. NebY (talk) 17:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Film poster license[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if you could edit my Cologne Blue JS to have a button labelled FP next to my others there in which when I hit the FP button it'll display this in the film poster page article. I am aware that subst:User Dr. Blofeld/Film poster would in theory work but when you save in the JS page it'll paste the whole thing in. Also for some reason images I upload automatically go on my watchlist which I don't want. How do I evade that?♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:26, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

To the first question: adding a button or tab requires javascript, and I'm no use for that, as noted above. To the second: it's controlled by Preferences → Watchlist → Add pages I create and files I upload to my watchlist. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
It's not ticked and still doing it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:53, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
It might be kinda mixed up inside. Try setting it, saving; unsetting it and saving it again. That should force it all one way. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:08, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Done as suggested, I'll see later if it works! I've found a way to sort out the FP button by adding a : in :subst: and then removing the colon and saving and then filling in.♦ Dr. Blofeld 07:06, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment[edit]

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Thank you for your edits re the Portsmouth meetup (I'd compeltly forgotten there were meetup pages on en as well as Meta!), and for the R stock info! Thryduulf (talk) 21:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

ASU Politehnica Timişoara[edit]

The page ASU Politehnica Timişoara is redirected to the page of a club that is a fraud and it's despised by the fans. Please fix this offense and corect the fraud. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blindmandream (talkcontribs) 09:49, 29 May 2014‎

@Blindmandream: Please see Mr. Stradivarius's reply at Talk:ASU Politehnica Timișoara#Protected edit request on 29 May 2014. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Connections (Transport links)[edit]

Why do you continuely keep 'stalking' me and editing everything I do? Is Cycling and Walking routes no longer important in London? People do uses the 'walking routes'as well as cycle lanes and cycle lanes of course, in London. It is under 'Connections' as with Buses and Coaches so it is not visible to whom may be looking at the page so there no harm. I truly fail to see what the issue is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hopeful2014 (talkcontribs) 12:04, 30 May 2014‎

@Hopeful2014: I am not stalking you. If I were, I expect that I would have reverted a lot more than I have done. The only reversions of your edits that I have made are those which happened to show up on my watchlist. Various people (including myself) have explained on your talk page and in edit summaries just why many of your edits have been undesirable. Wikipedia is not a travel guide: an article about a railway station should concern itself with the history of the station, the trains which serve it and the facilities provided at the station itself. Nearby amenities like cycle routes and footpaths are irrelevant. We allow bus routes, but only if the bus stop is either part of the station, or directly outside - bus stops in another street should be excluded. Moreover, every single one of your edits that I have looked at has not provided sources of any type; we have a policy on verifiability as well as one which forbids original research. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:01, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
@Hopeful2014: I'm afraid that more people than Redrose64 are becoming unhappy with your edits. I think the key thing is that if you want to make sweeping changes across the whole encyclopaedia, you need to get consensus for them. What I mean by this is take them to the talk page of an appropriate wikiproject, explain what you want to do and why, and get consensus for the whole idea, not one page at a time. If you succeed then you will have that behind you to refer to if queried; if you don't get consensus then at least you will have some clarity about what other editors think. I honestly believe this would be a much better approach than being a Lone Crusader and making the same changes across lots of articles. Talk pages are ALWAYS better than confrontational editing. Hope this helps, best wishes, DBaK (talk) 20:17, 4 June 2014 (UTC)


{{talkback|Talk:Longnewton|Unusual editing|ts=10:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)}} DBaK (talk) 10:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Your User Page Is Epic[edit]

Just wanted to tell you that your user page & edits are really epic, you should be proud. Billgates2 (talk) 02:24, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

@Billgates2: Thankyou. I missed this post earlier, because you put it at the top of the page; please see WP:TOPPOST. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

List of rail accidents (before 1880)[edit]

I've reworked the List of rail accidents (before 1880) but am having difficulty getting all the sfn references to work fully. What am I doing wrong? Mjroots (talk) 08:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

@Mjroots: The surnames given in the {{sfn}} need to match up with the last names given in the {{cite book}}. I made three changes: (i) the abbreviation "Jr." is not part of the surname but is really an honorific suffix - I would personally omit it, but just in case there's another Alfred D Chandler, I moved it into |first=; (ii) surnames and given names need to be clearly distinguished, so using |author=Alan A. Jackson doesn't create a valid link from Jackson; (iii) Shepard was misspelled as Shephard. There is a fourth problem, in that there remains a {{sfn|Bengtsson|2007|pp=213-15}} but there is no full citation with that surname. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:09, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm on to the Bengtsson issue. Mjroots (talk) 09:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
All working now, thanks for your help. Mjroots (talk) 09:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Katpadi–Viluppuram branch line[edit]

Many thanks for your help out there. Actually i was about to ask Useddenim for help, but i unable to proceed due to power shutdown. Face-smile.svg Thank you very much! --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ)(Support) 16:49, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

{{ganl}} replace[edit]


Hey—when you have a sec, could you take a look at the Tony Hawk testcase at Template:GAN link/testcases. It appears that the template is thrown off because the input (article title) includes an apostrophe (and as such links to a nonexistent GAN nomination instead of showing the usual "start" link in bold). I can't tell whether the issue is due to a problem in the the "replace" stripping function we previously spoke about. Anyway, I'd appreciate a quick point in the right direction if you have a moment. czar  05:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

@Czar: The problem is in Template:Exists, a template that I don't like (see its talk page). This is what it's being fed (after the two {{replace}} have been performed):
*{{exists|page=Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1|then=([[Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1|nom]])|else=('''<span class='plainlinks'>[{{fullurl:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1|action=edit&editintro=Template:GAN/editintro&preload=Template:GAN/preload}} start]</span>''')}}
which yields
clearly that redlink should actually be a blue link to "start" the nom if the GA1 subpage doesn't exist. This is what {{exists}} expands to with those params:
*{{#ifeq:[[:{{FULLPAGENAME:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1}}]]|{{:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1}}|('''<span class='plainlinks'>[{{fullurl:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1|action=edit&editintro=Template:GAN/editintro&preload=Template:GAN/preload}} start]</span>''')|([[Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1|nom]])}}
again, this yields
The {{#ifeq:}} parser function takes three or four arguments: two strings to compare, a return value for "true" and an optional return value for "false". The two return values are not the problem. The problem must be in the comparison of the first two args: they are testing as unequal where they should test as equal. These two args are

for dead URLs

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 08:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

It will probably take me a few days to read through the article properly and get back with comments, but I will do my very best. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Tezero (talk) 16:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose (Symbol support vote.svg) 1b. MoS (Symbol support vote.svg) 2a. ref layout (Symbol support vote.svg) 2b. cites WP:RS (Symbol support vote.svg) 2c. no WP:OR (Symbol support vote.svg) 3a. broadness (Symbol support vote.svg)
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Right, those were my findings. An instant Pass. Excellent work. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Both args yield that redlink, and to me, they're identical - but something in the MediaWiki software is treating them as different. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:49, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
The problem appears to be in FULLPAGENAME as mentioned on Template talk:Exists (above your comment) but I don't know how the suggestion of using #replace would help fix the issue. Would you have a suggestion for getting around it? Is it something to be patched in {{exists}} or something I should accommodate in {{ganl}}? I appreciate your help czar  13:01, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I'll tell you how they are different:
  • {{urlencode:[[:{{FULLPAGENAME:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1}}]]}} → %5B%5B%3ATalk%3ATony+Hawk%26%2339%3Bs+Underground%2FGA1%5D%5D
  • {{urlencode:{{:Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1}}}} →
As you can see, the first one is encoding the ' as %26%2339%3B and the second one is correctly encoding it as %27 which means they are not equal... You could have it strip out apostrophes I suppose and then they would be equal... — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:13, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Expand: The other thing you can do is replace the apostrophe with ".27" which is the dot encoded version of the apoptrophe which the mediawiki parser seems to prefer like:
  • {{exists|page=Talk:Tony Hawk.27s Underground/GA1|then=([[Talk:Tony Hawk.27s Underground/GA1|nom]])|else=('''<span class='plainlinks'>[{{fullurl:Talk:Tony Hawk.27s Underground/GA1|action=edit&editintro=Template:GAN/editintro&preload=Template:GAN/preload}} start]</span>''')}}
  • (start)
I hope this is helpful. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:19, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I went with Czar's suggestion, except that instead of using {{#replace:}} (which isn't installed) I used {{replace}}. See Template:GAN link/testcases now. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:25, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I just fixed the template for you... I just wrapped the sections with the page names to test against in urlencode: and now it works. Czar, Redrose64. diff. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:28, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Ha, editing past each other... I'll revert my change to ganl, undo your change to exists, and apply my change instead. That will likely be the best fix as it should fix any character that has an issue (I'm sure there are other obscure ones out there). — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, all czar  13:37, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Okay, so I've undone my edit to Template:GAN_link, and replaced Red's change with a more inclusive solution on Template:Exists. Everything should work correctly now. Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Except that it doesn't. Of the seven entries in the first and second sections of Template:GAN link/testcases, six (those for Saints Row 2 (mobile) and Tony Hawk's Underground) correctly show a "start" link, because the GA pages (Talk:Saints Row 2 (mobile)/GA1, Talk:Saints Row 2 (mobile)/GA2, Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1) don't exist. However, the entries for Saints Row: The Third show a "start" link, but should show a "nom" link, because Talk:Saints Row: The Third/GA1 exists. This was working correctly after my edit to {{exists}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I've adjusted it so they are all working now. What is your concern about the transclusions? Is it just that they are counted as transcluded or are you worried about page size? If the latter, we can apply one of the trim modules to chop the number of characters from the transclusion off at the length of the input string. There isn't much to do about the other except decide if it is better or worse than hitting max expensive parser function call limit. Well, I do remember writing some kind of script that assessed if the page existed on the viewers local page which would eliminate the need for either method, but people complained they didn't want to have to use a script. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 16:28, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Misuse of {{Good Article}}[edit]

--Redrose64 (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Hull and Salby[edit]

Moved to Talk:Hull and Selby Railway#Hull and Salby: Redrose64 (talk) 20:42, 10 June 2014 (UTC)


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Face-smile.svg Thank you --Redrose64 (talk) 18:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014[edit]

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It is in the geonotice but it tends to get overlooked and we're trying to get a better turn out this time for the Leeds meet up after only three turned up in March. Also, it missed out on the wikiproject Yorkshire newsletter this month. I'm doing some last minute invites and I've had some interest already so I suppose it was worth it. Regards IJA (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for stoppping by California Chrome and catching the missing URL problem. (How the heck did THAT happen? I ask myself...) I have the article up for PR, so any other helpful things are welcomed! Montanabw(talk) 21:54, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

@Montanabw: I have a small customisation that helps locate such errors. If you don't see a red error message from here →← to here or from here →← to here, you could try adding this CSS:
.citation-comment { display: inline !important; color: red; }
to Special:MyPage/common.css and it should reveal two error messages. If it does, re-visit this version. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I've never done css stuff, I always panic at the "this could change your computer" message . heh. Montanabw(talk) 22:33, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
@Montanabw: It's a standard message that causes unnecessary worry; it's perhaps more applicable to javascript pages. There's really nothing that you can do in CSS that will harm anything permanently, and you won't affect anybody else by modifying a CSS page in your own user space. CSS just alters how a page looks - such as colours, fonts, borders and spacing, it doesn't manipulate data. It is possible to use CSS to make the whole page - or just part of it - invisible (I'm not going to say how); but that's not something that you would stumble upon by accident. For instance, if in the above CSS, you were to mistype a word, or omit some punctuation, one of two things could happen: either it works as intended, or it does nothing. The only way that you could get it to work, but not in the intended manner, would be a typo that was itself valid CSS - such as using yellow instead of red. But some typos are harmless: in the above line of CSS, the second semicolon may safely be omitted, as may all of the spaces except the one before !important --Redrose64 (talk) 23:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

locomotive articles[edit]

Hello, Essex locomotive enthusiast here,are there any other articles that need expanding about preserved locomotives? ,regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Essexlocomotiventhusiast (talkcontribs) 16:02, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Your list of 'fastest production cars'[edit]

Hi, great post on the above mentioned subject, thanx. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I noticed that the Hennessey Venom was not included in your list of cars. I have read that it recently beat the Veyron Supersport's top speed by achieving a speed of 270,49 mph. Surely the Venom must have achieved amazing stats in terms of acceleration and qautermile time/speed. The car was still accelerating at a rate of 1 mile per second when that speed was recorded but ran out of track and had to decelerate. Does the Venom not deserve a spot on your list of cars and if so, will you please update it or do you stick to strict terms and conditions when drawing up such a list? Thanx for reading and keep up the good work — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:08, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

??? The only edit I made to that article was this one. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force[edit]

Hi, can you or User:Frietjes edit Template:Photomontage to make the montage on the page horizontal and centrally aligned, with the possibility of adding new rows. I tried adding photos where it says b and c etc and it doesn't work.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: There seem to be seven images specified at Wikipedia:WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force but only six were displayed; the non-display of File:Blenheim Palace 2006.jpg would have been fixed with this edit but I see that the page has changed to not use {{Photomontage}}. Photomontage won't allow you to put them all in one row, because (despite what it says about 7 columns) it can handle a maximum of 5 per row. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


Hello Redrose64. Recently, you blocked Plesniva prdel (talk · contribs) (in English: Moldy Ass) and Biedronka EN (talk · contribs). I'm just letting you know about some context. Thank you. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 11:49, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The Grouping[edit]

Wikisource has the full text of the relveant Railways Act, thank to someone ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Yes, I have a paper copy as well as an online link. Which of my edits is this in relation to? --Redrose64 (talk) 18:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You'd made comment about someone refering to a Grouping Act of 1923.Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:46, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
@Sfan00 IMG: Ah yes, the thing is, the Act was passed by Parliament during 1921, and received Royal Assent on 19 August 1921, and its short title is the Railways Act 1921, so it's an Act of 1921, not of 1923. Most of its direct effects took place on 1 January 1923, that being the date laid down in Sections 2 & 4 by which any voluntary amalgamations had to occur; but several amalgamations had occurred before that, such as the LNWR with the LYR, the GWR with the larger Welsh railways, the NER with the H&BR. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Demo or code example.[edit]

Hi Redrose64, I noticed you rolled back one of my edits, I have 2 points for you to consider; 1. This roll-back leaves a permanent error in a page that is not designed to "hold" these errors, either as an assist to fixing these errors or applying such references, I note user Wtmitchell has added some comments and examples and commented them out to avoid such rendering. 2. The correct way to code nested references that is currently supported by wiki is listed in the help pages which all users can refer to, if we can update the help pages as to the best approach for this advanced approach, its limitations etc, would this not be the best place to hold this test case/demo as this archived VP technical page will rarely be referred to again. Your thoughts and kind regards.The Original Filfi (talk) 02:01, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

It wasn't a WP:ROLLBACK, it was a WP:UNDO. Besides Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting and Category:Pages with broken reference names, the page is in several other tracking categories: Category:Pages with score rendering errors; ; Category:CS1 errors: dates; Category:Pages using web citations with no URL - is it your intention to "fix" these as well? Please don't, it's an archive page, which is supposed to show the situation as it was at the time that the problem was raised. If Wtmitchell (talk · contribs) elected to amend his own posts while they were still on the main WP:VPT page, he was entirely within WP:TPG in doing so.
You claim "this archived VP technical page will rarely be referred to again" - I beg to differ. At WP:VPT, we often direct people back to archived discussions, because the same things come up again and again. In the current version of the page, I count six links back to archived discussions, including one to the archive in question - Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Wikimedia Foundation Error. There are also links from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 127#Migrating Reflinks, Dab solver, and User:Dispenser's other tools to Tool Labs (to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#When will the Reflinks tool be moved to the stable server?) and from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 124#Search algorithm and search engine issues (to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Tech News: 2014-07), so we do refer back to old discussions. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Template etiquette[edit]

I am curious, is there a preference that template parameters be written in lowercase; making it poor form to incorporate parameters that begin with a capital letter? I ask because I configured a template's syntax with parameters that began with a capital letter and was befuddled that it didn't work properly, reviewed the internal code, and realized that only "all lowercase" parameters were used. I would have added the additional functionality of recognizing the form beginning with a capital letter as well, but didn't want to promote poor etiquette if that is an issue. Thank you for considering this question.—John Cline (talk) 20:11, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

@John Cline: It depends upon the template, and also depends upon whether you are concerned with parameter names or their values. For example, in a commonly-used template like {{citation needed|date=June 2014}}, there is one parameter: its name is date and its value is June 2014. It's quite easy to make parameter values case-insensitive, but not parameter names - each different possibility needs to be coded separately, and this adds complexity to the template and increases processing time. In most cases, parameter names are lowercase, but not necessarily. It's largely down to the template's creator. Some complex templates use lowercase for the commonly-used parameters, but uppercase for the rarely-used "specials". Which template are you working on? --Redrose64 (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
  • (talk page stalker), it depends on the template, and how it was coded in the original author's design. It would be near impossible to accommodate for every possible casing possible and would result in template bloat. Using the "date" example, it would be a matter of at least offering {{{DATE|{{{Date|{{{date|default}}}}}}}}} compared to just {{{date|default}}}. The more different parameters, the bigger a problem this becomes. There is a similar issue with whether or not to use spaces, underscore, or neither. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 20:32, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you both. I was using {{Testcases side by side}} and formated my syntax using T3= and T4= which of course currently requires t3= and t4=. Also {{Testcases side by side by side}} is similar. Incidentally, do you think those two templates could be effectively merged?—John Cline (talk) 20:39, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I am intriguingly challenged[edit]

Hello Redrose64, again. I have run into a template challenge that I can not parse. I am confident that you will see the clear answer and bring me to understand; so I ask: Consider: {{Testcases side by side by side}}. The template, along with {{Testcases side by side by side/sandbox}} and {{Testcases side by side by side/sandbox2}} are the default values for the corresponding sides by side. By what appears to be a complicated construction, the {{documentation}} forms with {{Template:Documentation/end box}} incorporated at the bottom. Within the end box, the main /sandbox, and /testcases pages are linked; I would like /sandbox2 to appear there as well. Is this possible, and can I accomplish that goal?—John Cline (talk) 05:39, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

The {{documentation}} template has been converted to Lua, and the code is now in Module:Documentation. This means that not only is {{Documentation/end box}} not used, but the code no longer bears any relation to Wiki markup, and is now much more difficult to understand. I do not maintain, nor offer code change suggestions for, Lua-based modules.
However, I will say this: the use of a /sandbox2 subpage is so rare that you would need to produce a convincing reason why the link needs to be added. If you look at the archives of Template talk:Documentation, you will see several denied requests for additional links. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I looked at {{Testcase table}} and was equally lost. To me, it is so dissimilar to what I am aware of that I don't even see its template equivalence. Is there a plan to discontinue templates of old in favor of this "module format"? I hope not. Thanks again.—John Cline (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Some people seem to be on a drive to convert every template to a Lua module, on the grounds that it's "easier" to carry out certain tasks, besides being faster. This is justifiable for some of the very complex high-use templates, like {{cite book}}, but less so for others. Unfortunately, the number of people who can understand Lua is small compared to the number who can understand template coding (template coding is just an extension of regular Wiki markup), and so that puts module maintenance into the hands of a privileged few - just check the revision history of any module picked at random to see how many different people have amended that module. Try it for ten or a dozen modules, you'll find the same names come up again and again. In the worst cases, only the module's creator has carried out all of the amendments, and so the problem comes of what happens when that person leaves? It's what a former supervisor of mine described as a "write-only language" - one person writes the code, which after a few fixes over a week or two, works as intended; six months later, they're asked for an enhancement, and can't remember why it was coded in the way that it was, and it's easier to just start again from scratch. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


{{talkback|WP:MCQ|Photo is licensed as a book cover, but clearly isn't|ts=17:24, 19 June 2014 (UTC)}} ww2censor (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Evil of the Daleks[edit]

Hi RedRose64,

Why did you revert my addition to The Evil of the Daleks?

All I did was add information about the last known complete print.

Did you not find that of interest, or worthwhile?

KenJacowitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 22:04, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

@KenJacowitz: Most of it - that not directly related to The Evil of the Daleks - didn't belong there at all. Of the little that would have remained, some was obvious speculation, contrary to WP:NOR; and all of it was unsourced, contrary to WP:V. All in all, it seemed like a WP:HOAX. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:27, 21 June 2014 (UTC)



June 4: BBC London received a shipment of films from the ABC in Australia. The batch consisted of The Space Museum 1 2 3 4, The Chase 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Time Meddler 1 2 3 4, Galaxy 4 1 2 3 4, The Myth Makers 1 2 3 4, The Ark 1 2 3 4, The Smugglers 1 2 3 4, The Tenth Planet 1 2 3 4, The Power of the Daleks 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Underwater Menace 1 2 3 4, The Moonbase 1 2 3 4, The Faceless Ones 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Evil of the Daleks 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, The Tomb of the Cybermen 1 2 3 4, The Abominable Snowmen 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Ice Warriors 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Enemy of the World 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Web of Fear 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Dominators 1 2 3 4 5, The Mind Robber 1 2 3 4 5, The Invasion 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, The Seeds of Death 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Space Pirates 1 2 3 4 5 6, The War Games 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. It is often believed that many orphaned episodes recovered over the years – such as Galaxy 4 3, The Underwater Menace 2, The Faceless Ones 3, The Evil of the Daleks 2, The Web of Fear 1, The Dominators 5 etc – stem from this shipment, which could’ve gone ‘walkies’ when scheduled for destruction. It is interesting to note that a copy of The Chase 1 and an edited copy of The Faceless Ones 1 were both found to exist in Australia in the late-1970s, despite being sent back to BBC London – either they never made it back or the ABC made copies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 22:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

It's a blog. Such sources are almost always inadmissible, see WP:SPS and WP:IRS. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:46, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


I will try to do better.

KenJacowitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 19:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Please see my comments at Web colors.[edit]

Just letting you know I left a comment at Web colors concerning your revert of my edit there. The reason the other colors are not listed in the CSS section is that it only adds two colors, inheriting the rest from other lists, namely HTML 4 and the X11 colors. PaleAqua (talk) 00:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Permission to edit[edit]

Hi. It looks like you can temporarily enable editing for people like me. Check this out, please, and let me know either here or there, wherever, if this is possible. Thanks. Marc Bago (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Replied there. Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Marc Bago: Replied at Template talk:Citation needed#Edit request - June 23, 2014. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:35, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Soliciting comment...[edit]

Hi! Would you care to review my FA nomination for the article Of Human Feelings? The article is about a jazz album by Ornette Coleman. If not, feel free to ignore this message. Cheers! Dan56 (talk) 03:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

@Dan56: Not sure why you're asking me - I've never had anything to do with that article. I've not participated in FACs very often, and I think only once as an antagonist (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doctor Who/archive2) - I believe that there is a group of such people who regularly monitor the open FAC discussions. In fact, I've rarely participated in FACs at all - six others in total: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SECR K and SR K1 classes/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/River Parrett/archive2; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wotton railway station/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Herne Hill railway station/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Metropolitan Railway/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Great North of Scotland Railway/archive1. If you look at those, you'll find that mostly I was responding to a question left by another. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:08, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

ROF Rotherwas.....Template for the Hereford, Ross and Gloucester Railway.[edit]

You have reverted the symbol on the line diagram to its former status. Therefore I will ask you a question.

If trains are laid on to carry the workforce to establishments, as they did on the two examples that I cite why does the line diagram for Singer Works on that loop line in Scotland that avoided Singer railway station carry its symbol for passenger usage but ROF Rotherwas does not on the Hereford, Ross and Gloucester Railway template, despite trains for the workforce being run to and from there?

All I was trying to do was to achieve unanimity of purpose, but do separate ruling for stations in Scotland, Wales and England so apply on Wikipedia ?

I am 69 years of age and have studied railway history as an interest since the early 1960's.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 08:24, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Were the stations served by timetabled services that were available for the general public to use? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:11, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

ROF Rotherwas and the first station site of Llandudno Junction railway station.[edit]

Good morning,

I must confess to being somewhat in quandary with regard to this particular location of ROF Rotherwas. and your very recent reversion of the symbol, which I know full well to have its raison d'etre fo the receipt of goods, but I am led to believe that trains for the use of the workforce were also ran at some period of time which may have qualified a symbol that would suggest this passenger usage. One does but live and learn, even at the advanced age of 69 years of age.

I would like to raise the matter of the first station of Llandudno Junction, as the text matter in the Wikipedia article on that railway station clearly states this was situated to the west of the current railway station. The identical templates for the Chester and Holyhead Railway and the North Wales Coast Line only make reference to the currently open station and make no mention whatsoever of the position of the first railway station.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 11:20, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Doubts about the accuracy of an article should be posted at the article's talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:59, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki-style table markup[edit]

--Redrose64 (talk) 10:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Horsted Keynes railway station[edit]

I undid your reversion of my edit to Horsted Keynes because your version just goes to a redirect page. [ Milton Keynes railway station (disambiguation) redirects to Milton Keynes railway station, which is actually a disambig page(!)]. You were correct in principle but wrong in reality. I agree with the principle that they should be the other way round - but they aren't. I believe it would need a boring RtM procedure to swap them. If you want to do it, I'll support. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:06, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman: Please see WP:INTDABLINK, more specifically, under "When to link to a disambiguation page" the first bullet (Disambiguation hatnotes), also the whole of "How to link to a disambiguation page" particularly "link to the title that includes the text "(disambiguation)", even if that is a redirect". The hatnote should therefore link through the redirect Milton Keynes railway station (disambiguation) and not the unredirected Milton Keynes railway station. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Fine, I'm happy to accept that.
As an alternative, how about I change Horstead Keynes to read not to be confused with Milton Keynes Central, which is what I suspect is what was intended in the first place? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
At the talk:Horsted Keynes railway station#Hatnote, I am now proposing that the hatnote be deleted as it is sledgehammer to crack a poppy seed. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Replied there. --Redrose64 (talk) 06:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

GWR 5700 & Images[edit]

Thanks for your edit and pointers on image size. I'd tried user preferences for thumbs before and thought it wasn't working - probably because someone had set fixed sizes... I've set it to 220 now so I get the same view as a not-logged in user.

PS - congrats on your 100,000 edits quite a milestone! Robevans123 (talk) 10:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Renaming of Proposed rail infrastructure in the United Kingdom subcategories[edit]

Please see my proposal to rename Category:Proposed rail transport in England, Category:Proposed rail transport in Scotland, Category:Proposed rail transport in Wales, Category:Proposed rail transport in Northern Ireland, Category:Rail Infrastructure projects in the United Kingdom Category:Transport projects in London & Category:Proposed transport projects in London; all subcategories of Category:Proposed rail infrastructure in the United Kingdom Hugo999 (talk) 13:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Borked Palestine flag template[edit]

I came across the Palestine name being borked in the {{fb}} template. ->  Palestine. I haven't a clue where to do. Any suggestions? Bgwhite (talk) 05:50, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: The |altlink=national football team parameter, passed by {{fb}} into {{country data Palestine}}, wasn't being passed on by that into {{flaglink/core}}. This edit should fix it; adding provision for |variant= as well was just a precaution. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Bgwhite (talk) 08:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Llancaiach branch[edit]

Moved to Talk:Llancaiach Branch#Inaccurate route diagram: Redrose64 (talk) 19:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notice from Technical 13[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Template Editor User:Technical 13. Thank you. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 19:06, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Trains in Trouble[edit]

You've got the second imprint of Vol 1, haven't you. Apparently shows an accident to 8F 48616 (see alsp Vol 8, p33). Can you do the honours with the details in the relevant articles please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjroots (talkcontribs) 07:26, 5 July 2014‎

@Mjroots: Mine's a "first published 1980 sixth impression 1982", the cover photos are (front) Thirsk 1892 and (rear) Cocking 1904 (misdescribed as 1906). --Redrose64 (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. Looks like we'll have to pass on this one. Mjroots (talk) 16:54, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


Could you look at this testcase and show if a better way exists to eliminate the blank line. If you agree that it should be removed, please edit the protected template. Thanks.—John Cline (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@John Cline: It seems that you had pretty much sorted it; the essential thing was to remove the newlines after <includeonly> and before </includeonly>. Those inside <noinclude>...</noinclude> have no effect on the transcluded template, but are normally present for readability, so I restored two of them giving this net change. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:05, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I understand the situation much better now. Also the link you included in you edit summary is helpful as well. Cheers.—John Cline (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
@John Cline: It's still not right, because the emitted HTML for four {{R ...}} templates is four separate <ul>...</ul> structures, each having one <li>...</li> - there should be a single <ul>...</ul> enclosing all four <li>...</li>. That's also a WP:LISTGAP problem, but I don't yet see where it's coming from. It might be in Template:Redirect template/core where there's a newline before the first bullet, and another after the {{#if:{{{info|}}}|{{{info}}}}} --Redrose64 (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Redrose64 – John asked me to come by and see what's happenin' – I don't see an extra line on the testcases page, but I do see what you have described. I put the /core into the {{Redirect template/core/sandbox}} and put that into the {{Redirect template/sandbox}}. Then I put the latter into the {{R from misspelling/sandbox}}, got rid of the lines you thought might cause the problem, but the problem is still there just as you described. I don't have a clue, and you're welcome to test any other ideas you have. – Paine  17:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
PS. I just tested a "raw" testcases page and got the same result. PS left by – Paine 
@Paine Ellsworth: The original problem of 12:43, 5 July 2014 concerned these testcases, with a noticeable gap between {{R from misspelling}} and {{R from full name}} about twice as wide as the normal gap between paragraphs. That gap doesn't show any more, because it was eliminated with this edit.
A WP:LISTGAP problem is most easily spotted when viewing the page source (the HTML served by MediaWiki), where a </ul> is directly followed (perhaps on a new line) by a <ul>. Here are those testcases after my edit, with much of the plain text and all of the links removed:
<li>This is a redirect from ...
<li>Use this rcat to ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...
<li>This redirect is made available to aid ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...</li>
For a sighted person, this causes a slight increase between items in a bulleted list, not noticeable by most people; for the user of screen reader software, it causes an extra list to be announced.
There must be another glitch in my IE10, then, because I am still unable to see the bigger gap, nor was I able to see it when I first made this edit. – Paine 
No, I don't see the gap in Firefox, either – I mean, I do see a gap, but on my screens (and I always use the LARGEST font size, so any gap should be exagerated in size) it's the same both before and after your edit. That's a 9 on my weird-stuff-o-meter. – Paine  18:50, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
BTW I see that your sig contains some parser code, like {{#if:t|17:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)}} - this isn't a good idea, see WP:SIG#NT. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Fixed – Paine  18:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────In my PS above, I mentioned that I looked at the html source code for a "raw" testcases page, for example here, and I see what you describe already starting to happen. Could this be a flaw in the raw testcases page code? – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 19:11, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: I have recreated the original problem so that you can see what it looked like: it's at Template:R from misspelling/testcases in the "Sandbox version" section, between "This redirect is made available to aid searches. Pages that use this link should be updated to link directly to the target without the use of a piped link that hides the correct details. For more information follow the category link." and "This is a redirect from a title that is a complete or more complete name of a person, organization, legislative act, etc. It leads to the title in accordance with the naming conventions for common names and can help writing. However, do not replace these redirected links with a piped link unless the page is updated for another reason. For more information, see the category." --Redrose64 (talk) 16:43, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! I see it was essentially placing the <includeonly> on the same line after the }} that gets rid of the whitespace on the testcases page. Learn something new every day 'round here. I've been aware for years that placing the <noinclude> on its own line introduces whitespace, but I did not know the <includeonly> tag would also do that. Thank you very much! – Paine  18:34, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Whitespace (spaces, tabs, newlines) is only unimportant after <noinclude> and before </noinclude>. For <includeonly> and </includeonly>, it is significant both before and after; it's also significant before <noinclude> and after </noinclude>. It's covered at WP:NOINCLUDE although perhaps not very well. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I've "included" some examples to clarify (it is hoped) the paragraph. Joys! – Paine  07:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Paul Angelis[edit]

Hi, I see that you have edited the Wiki page for Paul Angelis. I was wondering what you know about him? My understanding is that he is deceased - are you aware of this? Thanks, Michael.

(Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

My only edit to that page was in the nature of tidying up: I removed some redundant information and unnecessary linking. I know little of the actor himself. If you believe that the information in the article is inaccurate, the best place to discuss that is at Talk:Paul Angelis. It's best to give some reliable sources too, particularly concerning a recent death - the policy on living persons continues to apply for some weeks or even months after a death. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikimania 2014 wiki - secure connection issues[edit]

Hi Redrose, I've just seen your message at about the secure connection issues.

I don't have time to test this myself, but I suspect this is not something that can be changed at an admin or crat level and requires developer access. Accordingly, if it is still happening, then I recommend you file a bug in bugzilla. If you would rather I do that, please ask and I'll do it this evening or tomorrow. Chris McKenna (WMUK) (talk) 08:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Move proposal: template {RailGauge} into {Track gauge}[edit]

I initiated this move proposal in Template talk:RailGauge#Requested move. Please take a look and join if you are interested. -DePiep (talk) 23:21, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:1990s-film-stub[edit]

A tag has been placed on Template:1990s-film-stub requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is an unused duplicate of another template, or a hard-coded instance of another template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is not actually the same as the other template noted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page explaining how this one is different so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{substituted}}</noinclude>).

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page's talk page, where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Fortdj33 (talk) 15:12, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Talkback from Technical 13[edit]

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Threatening and harassment of User:Technical_13 by User:Redrose64 and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

Thanks, — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 00:20, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

The link title of the case request is now User:Technical 13 and User:Redrose64. Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 06:10, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Rfd tag[edit]

Camden Town tube station - Standard Tube Map Citation[edit]

Hello there Redrose.

As you see the citation is not completely irrelevant because in the Check Before You Travel section, it mentioned that Camden Town is exit only at that time. And so PLEASE respond to this as soon as possible.

Thank you. Vincent60030 (talk) 05:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

@Vincent60030: The problem was that your "citation" that you added in this edit wasn't a citation at all, but an attempt to transclude a non-existent template. You can tell this because it left a redlink beginning "Template:" in the references section (item 5). I see that you finally managed to get something in that wasn't broken. However, this source - the well-known Standard Tube Map - does not support very much of the preceding two sentences, which are:
Camden Town tube station (not to be confused with Camden Road railway station) is a major junction on the Northern line and one of the busiest stations on the London Underground network. It is particularly busy with visitors to the Camden markets at weekends, and is exit-only at times when market-related traffic would cause dangerous overcrowding on the narrow platforms.
I've added yellow highlighting to the text that is supported by that ref. Notice that the phrases "one of the busiest stations"; "particularly busy with visitors to the Camden markets at weekends"; and "when market-related traffic would cause dangerous overcrowding on the narrow platforms" are not highlighted; this is because they are not supported by the ref. The ref tells me where the station is on the system, and also informs me that on Sundays between 13:00 and 17:30 it is open for interchange and exit only, but does not tell me why this is so. That is why the {{citation needed|date=November 2013}} was there, and why it should remain until a better source has been provided. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I would say "better or additional source" . All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:37, 13 July 2014 (UTC).
@Redrose64: Thank you for your explanation Redrose. But can you have another look if the NEW citation I have added is valid?
Thank you. Vincent60030 (talk) 11:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Vincent60030: No, it is not. You cannot use Wikipedia as a ref source, see WP:CIRCULAR. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:02, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Vincent60030: You did it again in this edit. You need to use an outside source, one that doesn't draw its information from Wikipedia, and that thoroughly checks its facts. See WP:V and WP:SECONDARY. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)


On breaking your Arbcom duck! All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:35, 13 July 2014 (UTC).

perhaps you can help ?[edit]

Hi Redrose64, the sorting in Category:Disambiguation pages is not good when compared with de:Kategorie:Begriffsklärung Most obvious might be the wrong position of "Typ 100" in this lists. In en:WP i am not experienced enough to fix this. PLS can you fix the sortcriteria for Type 100 ??? As example this can help for the others :-) Regards --Gruß Tom (talk) 10:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Gruß Tom: See WP:SORTKEY particularly the fourth bullet, beginning "Entries containing numbers sometimes need special sort keys". If you look at e.g. de:Typ 1 you will see that the very last line is {{SORTIERUNG:Typ 001}} so you would need to do something similar to the English-language pages that have fewer than three digits, for example, on Type 1 you would need to add {{DEFAULTSORT:Type 001}} like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:04, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
oh ... i tried before asking [1] in my eyes it didnt work (did browserrefresh) Can you fix it within Type 100? Please do it ... seems that i am too xxxx for it :-) Thx for patience --Gruß Tom (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
@Gruß Tom: You can't fix it in Type 100 because that is already sorting correctly - it is the other pages in the category that are wrong. Each one that has fewer than three digits needs to be edited: I've done another five by way of further example. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
ahh thx seems to be a trick like Bicycle kick and needs some Diligence .... i'll try. THX a lot. --Gruß Tom (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Manchester and Wigan Railway[edit]

I've just added a diagram to this article. Some of the crossing lines are not labelled but I think it's better than not having one. Any (should I say the) improvements you think needed will be welcomed. Britmax (talk) 09:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration case request declined[edit]

Hi Redrose64, an arbitration case request in which you were named as a party has been declined by the Arbitration Committee as they believe the community is still able to handle this issue so arbitration is not yet required. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 14:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Curiosity has gotten to me[edit]

Hello R. I hope that you are having a pleasant summer. I noticed this thread Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 128#Language tool updates not showing up in list and it reminded me of this User talk:Rothorpe#Cod article doesn.27t have a language link conversation. I am curious if the two things are the same problem or not. H. Pierce has not edited since the post on Rothorpe's talk page but I notice that the cod article does have links to other language Wikis now. Only a few weeks left until we get to see Capaldi's Dr!! Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 18:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't know much about the language tool; I was offering some test scenarios, and some way of filing a bug.
We've been getting some DW trailers, often very short and enigmatic. One popped up during the 2014 FIFA World Cup Final last night, which is unusual for the BBC: not having any commercial breaks, they normally put trailers between programmes, not in the middle of them.
I was in this shop earlier today, and in the touristy section I found
It seemed rather thin, and the locations for Oxford itself were very few. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Each week BBCA have been giving us a slightly longer teaser. Someone added the one with clips from several of the upcoming eps. Interesting factoid (well slightly anyway) this is the first time since 2010 that we wont have a break in the middle of the series. Vicious (TV series) is currently airing on our PBS station. Ep 2 had a fun reference to Dr Who. That is a shame about the brevity of the book. Do they have guided tours of filming locations? I would guess that Endeavour will create new tours as well? Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 20:56, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Whenever I see Vicious in a TV listing, I can't help thinking of Transformer (side 1, track 1).
There are guided walking tours of various themes, including at least one Morse/Lewis/Endeavour tour; I carefully avoided them whilst they accosted groups of unsuspecting tourists on Cornmarket and at Carfax. These accept payment in pounds sterling, U.S. bucks and Euros, but it's expensive whichever. I can drink in The White Horse for no more than the price of a pint of bitter, and not get harassed to move on to the next location before I'm ready. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Excellent point both times. I have always enjoyed wandering around on my own to discover things. The one location that I would like to see (should I ever get to travel again) is the rooftop where the final scenes of ep 4 of series 1 "Home" was filmed. I am not sure that it would be open to the public though, of course, I know nothing about it :-) Well I have my DVR set to record the parts of the British Open that will be on while I am asleep. ZZZZZ. MarnetteD|Talk 21:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Protection template[edit]

Thanks for your contributions.

Why you have to remove protection template manually?[2] I thought it was automatic but seeing it for a while now. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 14:20, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@OccultZone: There are at least two bots that remove expired (or otherwise inapplicable) prot templates, but they don't pick up all instances. The one that you indicate had expired nearly ten days before I removed it; if a bot had failed to notice it in that time, it was unlikely that it would be noticed by a bot at any time soon. Ten days is by no means unusual: I often come across pages where the prot had been expired for two, three, or even four weeks. About a month ago, I spotted one that had expired more than four months earlier. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
further @OccultZone: - one of those bots was Lowercase sigmabot (talk · contribs), which has been down since April. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Hadn't seen that one for long. Good you still remember. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 16:25, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
@OccultZone: DumbBOT (talk · contribs) is another. That's still running though; I know that it ignores {{pp-move-indef}} (cases like this where only the {{pp-semi-indef}} was removed are quite common) but I don't know why it isn't picking up the others. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:08, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

can you remember the bot's name?[edit]

Checkwiki checks for a missing reflist tag. The past several days the number of articles has climbed by an order of magnitude. There was a bot that would add a reflist tag if it was missing from an article. Wondering if there is a problem with the bot. Bgwhite (talk) 07:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: There's Addbot task 15 but that bot has been down since August 2013. I think that Helpful Pixie Bot (talk · contribs) did it, but Rich isn't allowed to run bots any more. I have a feeling that AWB does it as a genfix, but I never use AWB (I prefer to make my own trivial and inconsequential edits).
Missing <references />/{{reflist}} used to show up in Category:Pages with missing references list, but with a recent MediaWiki software change, they will no longer do this (the software generates a fake <references /> instead). Such pages are not categorised, but with the next MediaWiki revision they should show in Category:Pages with an automatically generated reference list --Redrose64 (talk) 15:52, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Ahh, that makes sense now. Some bot or person was probably using the now departed category to generate a list. AWB does have a genfix for it, but it is not perfect, thus would be my last resort. Bgwhite (talk) 17:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
The problem is that this can be generated by many other situations than a simple missing {{Footnotes}}. The most common is an unclosed ref tag, the next is deletion of the end part of the article (either by accident or on purpose) taking out the categories and other apparatus, along with a variable amount of article proper. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
Rich Farmbrough fyi... checkwiki is checking for unclosed refs. Article count was 8,000, but now is emptied. Your name reminded me... is there an "easy" way of correcting bad ISBN's? I've been search WorldCat via the book's name. Bgwhite (talk) 20:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
There is a way to find a good percentage. A common error is to use the ISBN 10 checksum for an ISBN 13, or vice versa. If you assume this is the error, and use your favourite site (or search engine) to check the corresponding other ISBN it can save a bunch of time, and ensure you get the right edition/impression. Caveat: World Cat sometimes indexes by incorrect ISBN's in their cleverness, but they don't list them on the various data pages. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
(Example: Invalid "Belgian Bun Companion Guide" 1-23-456789-0 try 978-1-23-456789-0 - if it returns nothing or "Flora of Acidic Grasslands", then no dice. If it returns "Belgian Bun Companion Guide" you found the error. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
Hmmm, this sounds like the work of a script. Script can add/remove the 978 and see if the checksum is ok. If checksum is ok, then there is an even higher probability of adding/removing the 978 is the answer. Bgwhite (talk) 21:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: Then you're on your own. Rich isn't allowed to use scripts, and I don't know how to write them (other than Unix shell scripts, that is; I'm assuming that you're thinking Java or Python or PHP or some other modern incomprehensible OOP code). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you two. However, this would be an offline script, so Rich could run it. I've got a list of articles and the associated bad 10 and 13 ISBNs. I've got Perl code that checks the ISBN. It is just a matter of combining the two. Amen, Amen and Amen on the modern incomprehensible OOP code. I guess we are just two old farts. Double hmmm. Yet another idea to throw onto the pile of todos. Bgwhite (talk) 22:26, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: User:Xqbot was fixing missing reflists too. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC case opened[edit]

You were recently recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 26, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. Before adding evidence please review the scope of the case. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:10, 18 July 2014 (UTC)


I used the pre-loaded "Submit an edit request", and for some reason it added the template request. I can't figure it out. Viriditas (talk) 11:13, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I've looked into this since my edit. The protection log shows that the article was raised from semi-prot to template-prot at 06:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC) and to full-prot at 10:45, 19 July 2014 (UTC) - in between those times you submitted your edit request at 10:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC). I edited at 10:49, so by the time that I spotted it, it had only just been raised to full-prot. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Note that you don't need to change the request template when the protection level changes. It will fix itself the next time the page is purged or edited. Jackmcbarn (talk) 14:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)