User talk:Redrose64

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Redrose64 uses the Wikibreak Switch template, and plans to notify anybody at an instant if he/she decides to take a wikibreak.
Hello, Redrose64! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Button sig.png or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! --Jza84 |  Talk  13:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
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Invasion of Time edits[edit]

The link you asked for[edit]

Sorry I'm bad at using wikipedia and messed up adding the cite, I asked Northern the other day about Bolton's Platform 2 and they replied to me


Seasons Greeting to you and yours[edit]

To you[edit]

Weihnachten10.gif Holiday Cheer
Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys! Paine

The Monk[edit]

I was sitting with a high steward, discussing Anglo-Saxon monks. The name we couldn't remember was Nennius. All the best: Rich Farmbrough04:39, 22 April 2014 (UTC).

The Grouping[edit]

Wikisource has the full text of the relveant Railways Act, thank to someone ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Yes, I have a paper copy as well as an online link. Which of my edits is this in relation to? --Redrose64 (talk) 18:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You'd made comment about someone refering to a Grouping Act of 1923.Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:46, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
@Sfan00 IMG: Ah yes, the thing is, the Act was passed by Parliament during 1921, and received Royal Assent on 19 August 1921, and its short title is the Railways Act 1921, so it's an Act of 1921, not of 1923. Most of its direct effects took place on 1 January 1923, that being the date laid down in Sections 2 & 4 by which any voluntary amalgamations had to occur; but several amalgamations had occurred before that, such as the LNWR with the LYR, the GWR with the larger Welsh railways, the NER with the H&BR. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Demo or code example.[edit]

Hi Redrose64, I noticed you rolled back one of my edits, I have 2 points for you to consider; 1. This roll-back leaves a permanent error in a page that is not designed to "hold" these errors, either as an assist to fixing these errors or applying such references, I note user Wtmitchell has added some comments and examples and commented them out to avoid such rendering. 2. The correct way to code nested references that is currently supported by wiki is listed in the help pages which all users can refer to, if we can update the help pages as to the best approach for this advanced approach, its limitations etc, would this not be the best place to hold this test case/demo as this archived VP technical page will rarely be referred to again. Your thoughts and kind regards.The Original Filfi (talk) 02:01, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

It wasn't a WP:ROLLBACK, it was a WP:UNDO. Besides Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting and Category:Pages with broken reference names, the page is in several other tracking categories: Category:Pages with score rendering errors; ; Category:CS1 errors: dates; Category:Pages using web citations with no URL - is it your intention to "fix" these as well? Please don't, it's an archive page, which is supposed to show the situation as it was at the time that the problem was raised. If Wtmitchell (talk · contribs) elected to amend his own posts while they were still on the main WP:VPT page, he was entirely within WP:TPG in doing so.
You claim "this archived VP technical page will rarely be referred to again" - I beg to differ. At WP:VPT, we often direct people back to archived discussions, because the same things come up again and again. In the current version of the page, I count six links back to archived discussions, including one to the archive in question - Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Wikimedia Foundation Error. There are also links from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 127#Migrating Reflinks, Dab solver, and User:Dispenser's other tools to Tool Labs (to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#When will the Reflinks tool be moved to the stable server?) and from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 124#Search algorithm and search engine issues (to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Tech News: 2014-07), so we do refer back to old discussions. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Template etiquette[edit]

I am curious, is there a preference that template parameters be written in lowercase; making it poor form to incorporate parameters that begin with a capital letter? I ask because I configured a template's syntax with parameters that began with a capital letter and was befuddled that it didn't work properly, reviewed the internal code, and realized that only "all lowercase" parameters were used. I would have added the additional functionality of recognizing the form beginning with a capital letter as well, but didn't want to promote poor etiquette if that is an issue. Thank you for considering this question.—John Cline (talk) 20:11, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

@John Cline: It depends upon the template, and also depends upon whether you are concerned with parameter names or their values. For example, in a commonly-used template like {{citation needed|date=June 2014}}, there is one parameter: its name is date and its value is June 2014. It's quite easy to make parameter values case-insensitive, but not parameter names - each different possibility needs to be coded separately, and this adds complexity to the template and increases processing time. In most cases, parameter names are lowercase, but not necessarily. It's largely down to the template's creator. Some complex templates use lowercase for the commonly-used parameters, but uppercase for the rarely-used "specials". Which template are you working on? --Redrose64 (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
  • (talk page stalker), it depends on the template, and how it was coded in the original author's design. It would be near impossible to accommodate for every possible casing possible and would result in template bloat. Using the "date" example, it would be a matter of at least offering {{{DATE|{{{Date|{{{date|default}}}}}}}}} compared to just {{{date|default}}}. The more different parameters, the bigger a problem this becomes. There is a similar issue with whether or not to use spaces, underscore, or neither. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 20:32, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you both. I was using {{Testcases side by side}} and formated my syntax using T3= and T4= which of course currently requires t3= and t4=. Also {{Testcases side by side by side}} is similar. Incidentally, do you think those two templates could be effectively merged?—John Cline (talk) 20:39, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I am intriguingly challenged[edit]

Hello Redrose64, again. I have run into a template challenge that I can not parse. I am confident that you will see the clear answer and bring me to understand; so I ask: Consider: {{Testcases side by side by side}}. The template, along with {{Testcases side by side by side/sandbox}} and {{Testcases side by side by side/sandbox2}} are the default values for the corresponding sides by side. By what appears to be a complicated construction, the {{documentation}} forms with {{Template:Documentation/end box}} incorporated at the bottom. Within the end box, the main /sandbox, and /testcases pages are linked; I would like /sandbox2 to appear there as well. Is this possible, and can I accomplish that goal?—John Cline (talk) 05:39, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

The {{documentation}} template has been converted to Lua, and the code is now in Module:Documentation. This means that not only is {{Documentation/end box}} not used, but the code no longer bears any relation to Wiki markup, and is now much more difficult to understand. I do not maintain, nor offer code change suggestions for, Lua-based modules.
However, I will say this: the use of a /sandbox2 subpage is so rare that you would need to produce a convincing reason why the link needs to be added. If you look at the archives of Template talk:Documentation, you will see several denied requests for additional links. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I looked at {{Testcase table}} and was equally lost. To me, it is so dissimilar to what I am aware of that I don't even see its template equivalence. Is there a plan to discontinue templates of old in favor of this "module format"? I hope not. Thanks again.—John Cline (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Some people seem to be on a drive to convert every template to a Lua module, on the grounds that it's "easier" to carry out certain tasks, besides being faster. This is justifiable for some of the very complex high-use templates, like {{cite book}}, but less so for others. Unfortunately, the number of people who can understand Lua is small compared to the number who can understand template coding (template coding is just an extension of regular Wiki markup), and so that puts module maintenance into the hands of a privileged few - just check the revision history of any module picked at random to see how many different people have amended that module. Try it for ten or a dozen modules, you'll find the same names come up again and again. In the worst cases, only the module's creator has carried out all of the amendments, and so the problem comes of what happens when that person leaves? It's what a former supervisor of mine described as a "write-only language" - one person writes the code, which after a few fixes over a week or two, works as intended; six months later, they're asked for an enhancement, and can't remember why it was coded in the way that it was, and it's easier to just start again from scratch. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


{{talkback|WP:MCQ|Photo is licensed as a book cover, but clearly isn't|ts=17:24, 19 June 2014 (UTC)}} ww2censor (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Evil of the Daleks[edit]

Hi RedRose64,

Why did you revert my addition to The Evil of the Daleks?

All I did was add information about the last known complete print.

Did you not find that of interest, or worthwhile?

KenJacowitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 22:04, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

@KenJacowitz: Most of it - that not directly related to The Evil of the Daleks - didn't belong there at all. Of the little that would have remained, some was obvious speculation, contrary to WP:NOR; and all of it was unsourced, contrary to WP:V. All in all, it seemed like a WP:HOAX. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:27, 21 June 2014 (UTC)



June 4: BBC London received a shipment of films from the ABC in Australia. The batch consisted of The Space Museum 1 2 3 4, The Chase 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Time Meddler 1 2 3 4, Galaxy 4 1 2 3 4, The Myth Makers 1 2 3 4, The Ark 1 2 3 4, The Smugglers 1 2 3 4, The Tenth Planet 1 2 3 4, The Power of the Daleks 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Underwater Menace 1 2 3 4, The Moonbase 1 2 3 4, The Faceless Ones 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Evil of the Daleks 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, The Tomb of the Cybermen 1 2 3 4, The Abominable Snowmen 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Ice Warriors 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Enemy of the World 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Web of Fear 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Dominators 1 2 3 4 5, The Mind Robber 1 2 3 4 5, The Invasion 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, The Seeds of Death 1 2 3 4 5 6, The Space Pirates 1 2 3 4 5 6, The War Games 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. It is often believed that many orphaned episodes recovered over the years – such as Galaxy 4 3, The Underwater Menace 2, The Faceless Ones 3, The Evil of the Daleks 2, The Web of Fear 1, The Dominators 5 etc – stem from this shipment, which could’ve gone ‘walkies’ when scheduled for destruction. It is interesting to note that a copy of The Chase 1 and an edited copy of The Faceless Ones 1 were both found to exist in Australia in the late-1970s, despite being sent back to BBC London – either they never made it back or the ABC made copies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 22:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

It's a blog. Such sources are almost always inadmissible, see WP:SPS and WP:IRS. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:46, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


I will try to do better.

KenJacowitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 19:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Please see my comments at Web colors.[edit]

Just letting you know I left a comment at Web colors concerning your revert of my edit there. The reason the other colors are not listed in the CSS section is that it only adds two colors, inheriting the rest from other lists, namely HTML 4 and the X11 colors. PaleAqua (talk) 00:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Permission to edit[edit]

Hi. It looks like you can temporarily enable editing for people like me. Check this out, please, and let me know either here or there, wherever, if this is possible. Thanks. Marc Bago (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Replied there. Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Marc Bago: Replied at Template talk:Citation needed#Edit request - June 23, 2014. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:35, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Soliciting comment...[edit]

Hi! Would you care to review my FA nomination for the article Of Human Feelings? The article is about a jazz album by Ornette Coleman. If not, feel free to ignore this message. Cheers! Dan56 (talk) 03:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

@Dan56: Not sure why you're asking me - I've never had anything to do with that article. I've not participated in FACs very often, and I think only once as an antagonist (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doctor Who/archive2) - I believe that there is a group of such people who regularly monitor the open FAC discussions. In fact, I've rarely participated in FACs at all - six others in total: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SECR K and SR K1 classes/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/River Parrett/archive2; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wotton railway station/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Herne Hill railway station/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Metropolitan Railway/archive1; Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Great North of Scotland Railway/archive1. If you look at those, you'll find that mostly I was responding to a question left by another. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:08, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Possible explanation at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Dan56#WP:CANVASS. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

If it's any consolation...[edit]

Both the editor who started the RfC and another who supported it have been blocked as socks of an editor who's had a deep-seeded issue with me, thus confirming that suspicions I've had all along. Dan56 (talk) 06:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

@Dan56: That doesn't answer my question above. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:34, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

ROF Rotherwas.....Template for the Hereford, Ross and Gloucester Railway.[edit]

You have reverted the symbol on the line diagram to its former status. Therefore I will ask you a question.

If trains are laid on to carry the workforce to establishments, as they did on the two examples that I cite why does the line diagram for Singer Works on that loop line in Scotland that avoided Singer railway station carry its symbol for passenger usage but ROF Rotherwas does not on the Hereford, Ross and Gloucester Railway template, despite trains for the workforce being run to and from there?

All I was trying to do was to achieve unanimity of purpose, but do separate ruling for stations in Scotland, Wales and England so apply on Wikipedia ?

I am 69 years of age and have studied railway history as an interest since the early 1960's.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 08:24, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Were the stations served by timetabled services that were available for the general public to use? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:11, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

ROF Rotherwas and the first station site of Llandudno Junction railway station.[edit]

Good morning,

I must confess to being somewhat in quandary with regard to this particular location of ROF Rotherwas. and your very recent reversion of the symbol, which I know full well to have its raison d'etre fo the receipt of goods, but I am led to believe that trains for the use of the workforce were also ran at some period of time which may have qualified a symbol that would suggest this passenger usage. One does but live and learn, even at the advanced age of 69 years of age.

I would like to raise the matter of the first station of Llandudno Junction, as the text matter in the Wikipedia article on that railway station clearly states this was situated to the west of the current railway station. The identical templates for the Chester and Holyhead Railway and the North Wales Coast Line only make reference to the currently open station and make no mention whatsoever of the position of the first railway station.

Paul Sidorczuk (talk) 11:20, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Doubts about the accuracy of an article should be posted at the article's talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:59, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki-style table markup[edit]

--Redrose64 (talk) 10:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Horsted Keynes railway station[edit]

I undid your reversion of my edit to Horsted Keynes because your version just goes to a redirect page. [ Milton Keynes railway station (disambiguation) redirects to Milton Keynes railway station, which is actually a disambig page(!)]. You were correct in principle but wrong in reality. I agree with the principle that they should be the other way round - but they aren't. I believe it would need a boring RtM procedure to swap them. If you want to do it, I'll support. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:06, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman: Please see WP:INTDABLINK, more specifically, under "When to link to a disambiguation page" the first bullet (Disambiguation hatnotes), also the whole of "How to link to a disambiguation page" particularly "link to the title that includes the text "(disambiguation)", even if that is a redirect". The hatnote should therefore link through the redirect Milton Keynes railway station (disambiguation) and not the unredirected Milton Keynes railway station. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Fine, I'm happy to accept that.
As an alternative, how about I change Horstead Keynes to read not to be confused with Milton Keynes Central, which is what I suspect is what was intended in the first place? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
At the talk:Horsted Keynes railway station#Hatnote, I am now proposing that the hatnote be deleted as it is sledgehammer to crack a poppy seed. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Replied there. --Redrose64 (talk) 06:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

GWR 5700 & Images[edit]

Thanks for your edit and pointers on image size. I'd tried user preferences for thumbs before and thought it wasn't working - probably because someone had set fixed sizes... I've set it to 220 now so I get the same view as a not-logged in user.

PS - congrats on your 100,000 edits quite a milestone! Robevans123 (talk) 10:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Renaming of Proposed rail infrastructure in the United Kingdom subcategories[edit]

Please see my proposal to rename Category:Proposed rail transport in England, Category:Proposed rail transport in Scotland, Category:Proposed rail transport in Wales, Category:Proposed rail transport in Northern Ireland, Category:Rail Infrastructure projects in the United Kingdom Category:Transport projects in London & Category:Proposed transport projects in London; all subcategories of Category:Proposed rail infrastructure in the United Kingdom Hugo999 (talk) 13:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Borked Palestine flag template[edit]

I came across the Palestine name being borked in the {{fb}} template. ->  Palestine. I haven't a clue where to do. Any suggestions? Bgwhite (talk) 05:50, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: The |altlink=national football team parameter, passed by {{fb}} into {{country data Palestine}}, wasn't being passed on by that into {{flaglink/core}}. This edit should fix it; adding provision for |variant= as well was just a precaution. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Bgwhite (talk) 08:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Llancaiach branch[edit]

Moved to Talk:Llancaiach Branch#Inaccurate route diagram: Redrose64 (talk) 19:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notice from Technical 13[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Template Editor User:Technical 13. Thank you. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 19:06, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Trains in Trouble[edit]

You've got the second imprint of Vol 1, haven't you. Apparently shows an accident to 8F 48616 (see alsp Vol 8, p33). Can you do the honours with the details in the relevant articles please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjroots (talkcontribs) 07:26, 5 July 2014‎

@Mjroots: Mine's a "first published 1980 sixth impression 1982", the cover photos are (front) Thirsk 1892 and (rear) Cocking 1904 (misdescribed as 1906). --Redrose64 (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. Looks like we'll have to pass on this one. Mjroots (talk) 16:54, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


Could you look at this testcase and show if a better way exists to eliminate the blank line. If you agree that it should be removed, please edit the protected template. Thanks.—John Cline (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@John Cline: It seems that you had pretty much sorted it; the essential thing was to remove the newlines after <includeonly> and before </includeonly>. Those inside <noinclude>...</noinclude> have no effect on the transcluded template, but are normally present for readability, so I restored two of them giving this net change. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:05, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I understand the situation much better now. Also the link you included in you edit summary is helpful as well. Cheers.—John Cline (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
@John Cline: It's still not right, because the emitted HTML for four {{R ...}} templates is four separate <ul>...</ul> structures, each having one <li>...</li> - there should be a single <ul>...</ul> enclosing all four <li>...</li>. That's also a WP:LISTGAP problem, but I don't yet see where it's coming from. It might be in Template:Redirect template/core where there's a newline before the first bullet, and another after the {{#if:{{{info|}}}|{{{info}}}}} --Redrose64 (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Redrose64 – John asked me to come by and see what's happenin' – I don't see an extra line on the testcases page, but I do see what you have described. I put the /core into the {{Redirect template/core/sandbox}} and put that into the {{Redirect template/sandbox}}. Then I put the latter into the {{R from misspelling/sandbox}}, got rid of the lines you thought might cause the problem, but the problem is still there just as you described. I don't have a clue, and you're welcome to test any other ideas you have. – Paine  17:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
PS. I just tested a "raw" testcases page and got the same result. PS left by – Paine 
@Paine Ellsworth: The original problem of 12:43, 5 July 2014 concerned these testcases, with a noticeable gap between {{R from misspelling}} and {{R from full name}} about twice as wide as the normal gap between paragraphs. That gap doesn't show any more, because it was eliminated with this edit.
A WP:LISTGAP problem is most easily spotted when viewing the page source (the HTML served by MediaWiki), where a </ul> is directly followed (perhaps on a new line) by a <ul>. Here are those testcases after my edit, with much of the plain text and all of the links removed:
<li>This is a redirect from ...
<li>Use this rcat to ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...
<li>This redirect is made available to aid ...</li>
<li>This is a redirect from a ...</li>
For a sighted person, this causes a slight increase between items in a bulleted list, not noticeable by most people; for the user of screen reader software, it causes an extra list to be announced.
There must be another glitch in my IE10, then, because I am still unable to see the bigger gap, nor was I able to see it when I first made this edit. – Paine 
No, I don't see the gap in Firefox, either – I mean, I do see a gap, but on my screens (and I always use the LARGEST font size, so any gap should be exagerated in size) it's the same both before and after your edit. That's a 9 on my weird-stuff-o-meter. – Paine  18:50, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
BTW I see that your sig contains some parser code, like {{#if:t|17:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)}} - this isn't a good idea, see WP:SIG#NT. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Fixed – Paine  18:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────In my PS above, I mentioned that I looked at the html source code for a "raw" testcases page, for example here, and I see what you describe already starting to happen. Could this be a flaw in the raw testcases page code? – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 19:11, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: I have recreated the original problem so that you can see what it looked like: it's at Template:R from misspelling/testcases in the "Sandbox version" section, between "This redirect is made available to aid searches. Pages that use this link should be updated to link directly to the target without the use of a piped link that hides the correct details. For more information follow the category link." and "This is a redirect from a title that is a complete or more complete name of a person, organization, legislative act, etc. It leads to the title in accordance with the naming conventions for common names and can help writing. However, do not replace these redirected links with a piped link unless the page is updated for another reason. For more information, see the category." --Redrose64 (talk) 16:43, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! I see it was essentially placing the <includeonly> on the same line after the }} that gets rid of the whitespace on the testcases page. Learn something new every day 'round here. I've been aware for years that placing the <noinclude> on its own line introduces whitespace, but I did not know the <includeonly> tag would also do that. Thank you very much! – Paine  18:34, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Whitespace (spaces, tabs, newlines) is only unimportant after <noinclude> and before </noinclude>. For <includeonly> and </includeonly>, it is significant both before and after; it's also significant before <noinclude> and after </noinclude>. It's covered at WP:NOINCLUDE although perhaps not very well. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I've "included" some examples to clarify (it is hoped) the paragraph. Joys! – Paine  07:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Paul Angelis[edit]

Hi, I see that you have edited the Wiki page for Paul Angelis. I was wondering what you know about him? My understanding is that he is deceased - are you aware of this? Thanks, Michael.

(Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

My only edit to that page was in the nature of tidying up: I removed some redundant information and unnecessary linking. I know little of the actor himself. If you believe that the information in the article is inaccurate, the best place to discuss that is at Talk:Paul Angelis. It's best to give some reliable sources too, particularly concerning a recent death - the policy on living persons continues to apply for some weeks or even months after a death. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikimania 2014 wiki - secure connection issues[edit]

Hi Redrose, I've just seen your message at about the secure connection issues.

I don't have time to test this myself, but I suspect this is not something that can be changed at an admin or crat level and requires developer access. Accordingly, if it is still happening, then I recommend you file a bug in bugzilla. If you would rather I do that, please ask and I'll do it this evening or tomorrow. Chris McKenna (WMUK) (talk) 08:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Move proposal: template {RailGauge} into {Track gauge}[edit]

I initiated this move proposal in Template talk:RailGauge#Requested move. Please take a look and join if you are interested. -DePiep (talk) 23:21, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:1990s-film-stub[edit]

A tag has been placed on Template:1990s-film-stub requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is an unused duplicate of another template, or a hard-coded instance of another template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is not actually the same as the other template noted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page explaining how this one is different so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{substituted}}</noinclude>).

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page's talk page, where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Fortdj33 (talk) 15:12, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Talkback from Technical 13[edit]

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Threatening and harassment of User:Technical_13 by User:Redrose64 and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

Thanks, — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 00:20, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

The link title of the case request is now User:Technical 13 and User:Redrose64. Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 06:10, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


On breaking your Arbcom duck! All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:35, 13 July 2014 (UTC).

Arbitration case request declined[edit]

Hi Redrose64, an arbitration case request in which you were named as a party has been declined by the Arbitration Committee as they believe the community is still able to handle this issue so arbitration is not yet required. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 14:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Rfd tag[edit]

Camden Town tube station - Standard Tube Map Citation[edit]

Hello there Redrose.

As you see the citation is not completely irrelevant because in the Check Before You Travel section, it mentioned that Camden Town is exit only at that time. And so PLEASE respond to this as soon as possible.

Thank you. Vincent60030 (talk) 05:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

@Vincent60030: The problem was that your "citation" that you added in this edit wasn't a citation at all, but an attempt to transclude a non-existent template. You can tell this because it left a redlink beginning "Template:" in the references section (item 5). I see that you finally managed to get something in that wasn't broken. However, this source - the well-known Standard Tube Map - does not support very much of the preceding two sentences, which are:
Camden Town tube station (not to be confused with Camden Road railway station) is a major junction on the Northern line and one of the busiest stations on the London Underground network. It is particularly busy with visitors to the Camden markets at weekends, and is exit-only at times when market-related traffic would cause dangerous overcrowding on the narrow platforms.
I've added yellow highlighting to the text that is supported by that ref. Notice that the phrases "one of the busiest stations"; "particularly busy with visitors to the Camden markets at weekends"; and "when market-related traffic would cause dangerous overcrowding on the narrow platforms" are not highlighted; this is because they are not supported by the ref. The ref tells me where the station is on the system, and also informs me that on Sundays between 13:00 and 17:30 it is open for interchange and exit only, but does not tell me why this is so. That is why the {{citation needed|date=November 2013}} was there, and why it should remain until a better source has been provided. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I would say "better or additional source" . All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:37, 13 July 2014 (UTC).
@Redrose64: Thank you for your explanation Redrose. But can you have another look if the NEW citation I have added is valid?
Thank you. Vincent60030 (talk) 11:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Vincent60030: No, it is not. You cannot use Wikipedia as a ref source, see WP:CIRCULAR. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:02, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Vincent60030: You did it again in this edit. You need to use an outside source, one that doesn't draw its information from Wikipedia, and that thoroughly checks its facts. See WP:V and WP:SECONDARY. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

perhaps you can help ?[edit]

Hi Redrose64, the sorting in Category:Disambiguation pages is not good when compared with de:Kategorie:Begriffsklärung Most obvious might be the wrong position of "Typ 100" in this lists. In en:WP i am not experienced enough to fix this. PLS can you fix the sortcriteria for Type 100 ??? As example this can help for the others :-) Regards --Gruß Tom (talk) 10:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Gruß Tom: See WP:SORTKEY particularly the fourth bullet, beginning "Entries containing numbers sometimes need special sort keys". If you look at e.g. de:Typ 1 you will see that the very last line is {{SORTIERUNG:Typ 001}} so you would need to do something similar to the English-language pages that have fewer than three digits, for example, on Type 1 you would need to add {{DEFAULTSORT:Type 001}} like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:04, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
oh ... i tried before asking [1] in my eyes it didnt work (did browserrefresh) Can you fix it within Type 100? Please do it ... seems that i am too xxxx for it :-) Thx for patience --Gruß Tom (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
@Gruß Tom: You can't fix it in Type 100 because that is already sorting correctly - it is the other pages in the category that are wrong. Each one that has fewer than three digits needs to be edited: I've done another five by way of further example. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
ahh thx seems to be a trick like Bicycle kick and needs some Diligence .... i'll try. THX a lot. --Gruß Tom (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Manchester and Wigan Railway[edit]

I've just added a diagram to this article. Some of the crossing lines are not labelled but I think it's better than not having one. Any (should I say the) improvements you think needed will be welcomed. Britmax (talk) 09:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Curiosity has gotten to me[edit]

Hello R. I hope that you are having a pleasant summer. I noticed this thread Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 128#Language tool updates not showing up in list and it reminded me of this User talk:Rothorpe#Cod article doesn.27t have a language link conversation. I am curious if the two things are the same problem or not. H. Pierce has not edited since the post on Rothorpe's talk page but I notice that the cod article does have links to other language Wikis now. Only a few weeks left until we get to see Capaldi's Dr!! Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 18:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't know much about the language tool; I was offering some test scenarios, and some way of filing a bug.
We've been getting some DW trailers, often very short and enigmatic. One popped up during the 2014 FIFA World Cup Final last night, which is unusual for the BBC: not having any commercial breaks, they normally put trailers between programmes, not in the middle of them.
I was in this shop earlier today, and in the touristy section I found
It seemed rather thin, and the locations for Oxford itself were very few. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Each week BBCA have been giving us a slightly longer teaser. Someone added the one with clips from several of the upcoming eps. Interesting factoid (well slightly anyway) this is the first time since 2010 that we wont have a break in the middle of the series. Vicious (TV series) is currently airing on our PBS station. Ep 2 had a fun reference to Dr Who. That is a shame about the brevity of the book. Do they have guided tours of filming locations? I would guess that Endeavour will create new tours as well? Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 20:56, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Whenever I see Vicious in a TV listing, I can't help thinking of Transformer (side 1, track 1).
There are guided walking tours of various themes, including at least one Morse/Lewis/Endeavour tour; I carefully avoided them whilst they accosted groups of unsuspecting tourists on Cornmarket and at Carfax. These accept payment in pounds sterling, U.S. bucks and Euros, but it's expensive whichever. I can drink in The White Horse for no more than the price of a pint of bitter, and not get harassed to move on to the next location before I'm ready. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Excellent point both times. I have always enjoyed wandering around on my own to discover things. The one location that I would like to see (should I ever get to travel again) is the rooftop where the final scenes of ep 4 of series 1 "Home" was filmed. I am not sure that it would be open to the public though, of course, I know nothing about it :-) Well I have my DVR set to record the parts of the British Open that will be on while I am asleep. ZZZZZ. MarnetteD|Talk 21:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Protection template[edit]

Thanks for your contributions.

Why you have to remove protection template manually?[2] I thought it was automatic but seeing it for a while now. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 14:20, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@OccultZone: There are at least two bots that remove expired (or otherwise inapplicable) prot templates, but they don't pick up all instances. The one that you indicate had expired nearly ten days before I removed it; if a bot had failed to notice it in that time, it was unlikely that it would be noticed by a bot at any time soon. Ten days is by no means unusual: I often come across pages where the prot had been expired for two, three, or even four weeks. About a month ago, I spotted one that had expired more than four months earlier. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
further @OccultZone: - one of those bots was Lowercase sigmabot (talk · contribs), which has been down since April. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Hadn't seen that one for long. Good you still remember. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 16:25, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
@OccultZone: DumbBOT (talk · contribs) is another. That's still running though; I know that it ignores {{pp-move-indef}} (cases like this where only the {{pp-semi-indef}} was removed are quite common) but I don't know why it isn't picking up the others. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:08, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II (talk · contribs) adds and removes {{pp-pc1}}/{{pp-pc2}}. Not sure if it handles other prot templates. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
@OccultZone: - Lowercase sigmabot (talk · contribs) was restarted today. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Funny name indeed, why it was stopped? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 12:53, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
See User talk:Σ/Archive/2014/August#Backlog in removal of prot templates. It may have stopped again... --Redrose64 (talk) 14:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Got a new concern. You have probably seen {{empty}} tags on many articles. I tried but I can't find any guidelines about this tag, I think that this tag is eye hurting and it should be removed along with the empty sections from all articles where this tag was added 1 year ago. I could but I don't know how to back up. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 18:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you really mean {{empty}}? That has no transclusions, and I wouldn't expect it to have many; and the few that do occur tend to disappear pretty quickly. Also, not sure what you mean by "I don't know how to back up". --Redrose64 (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Check Template:Empty section, I would've removed the tag as well as the empty section from pages, but I don't know how to back up such action. You ever worked on this tag? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 18:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
{{empty section}} has a very different purpose from {{empty}}. When you make an edit, the previous version is recorded in the page history, so you don't need to worry about backups. If your concern is that the database will become corrupted somehow, you shouldn't worry about that either - the database is backed up periodically by the sysadmin staff. No, I've not worked on "this tag" - a check of the page history shows that. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
You are being a bit technical, by backing up I meant to form the background or purpose of activity. Suppose if someone says "Why you are removing empty tags?" I should have some type of policy note or consensus to show, that would support such edits. If there is none, do you know any place where consensus can be formed? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 03:42, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
If you are removing {{empty}} tags, it should be because the page concerned does not satisfy WP:CSD#A3. If the problem is removal of {{empty section}} - which as noted above is not at all the same thing - then either the section is not in fact empty, in which case the removal is justifiable - or you should be removing the immediately-preceding heading. Any heading should be followed either by content, or by a deeper-level subsection heading. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:09, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

can you remember the bot's name?[edit]

Checkwiki checks for a missing reflist tag. The past several days the number of articles has climbed by an order of magnitude. There was a bot that would add a reflist tag if it was missing from an article. Wondering if there is a problem with the bot. Bgwhite (talk) 07:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: There's Addbot task 15 but that bot has been down since August 2013. I think that Helpful Pixie Bot (talk · contribs) did it, but Rich isn't allowed to run bots any more. I have a feeling that AWB does it as a genfix, but I never use AWB (I prefer to make my own trivial and inconsequential edits).
Missing <references />/{{reflist}} used to show up in Category:Pages with missing references list, but with a recent MediaWiki software change, they will no longer do this (the software generates a fake <references /> instead). Such pages are not categorised, but with the next MediaWiki revision they should show in Category:Pages with an automatically generated reference list --Redrose64 (talk) 15:52, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Note: Category:Pages with an automatically generated reference list comes from MediaWiki:Cite error refs without references category, which includes code to categorise pages in only eight namespaces - (main) Category: Template: File: Help: Portal: Wikipedia: Draft:. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:31, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Ahh, that makes sense now. Some bot or person was probably using the now departed category to generate a list. AWB does have a genfix for it, but it is not perfect, thus would be my last resort. Bgwhite (talk) 17:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
The problem is that this can be generated by many other situations than a simple missing {{Footnotes}}. The most common is an unclosed ref tag, the next is deletion of the end part of the article (either by accident or on purpose) taking out the categories and other apparatus, along with a variable amount of article proper. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
Rich Farmbrough fyi... checkwiki is checking for unclosed refs. Article count was 8,000, but now is emptied. Your name reminded me... is there an "easy" way of correcting bad ISBN's? I've been search WorldCat via the book's name. Bgwhite (talk) 20:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
There is a way to find a good percentage. A common error is to use the ISBN 10 checksum for an ISBN 13, or vice versa. If you assume this is the error, and use your favourite site (or search engine) to check the corresponding other ISBN it can save a bunch of time, and ensure you get the right edition/impression. Caveat: World Cat sometimes indexes by incorrect ISBN's in their cleverness, but they don't list them on the various data pages. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
(Example: Invalid "Belgian Bun Companion Guide" 1-23-456789-0 try 978-1-23-456789-0 - if it returns nothing or "Flora of Acidic Grasslands", then no dice. If it returns "Belgian Bun Companion Guide" you found the error. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
Hmmm, this sounds like the work of a script. Script can add/remove the 978 and see if the checksum is ok. If checksum is ok, then there is an even higher probability of adding/removing the 978 is the answer. Bgwhite (talk) 21:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: Then you're on your own. Rich isn't allowed to use scripts, and I don't know how to write them (other than Unix shell scripts, that is; I'm assuming that you're thinking Java or Python or PHP or some other modern incomprehensible OOP code). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you two. However, this would be an offline script, so Rich could run it. I've got a list of articles and the associated bad 10 and 13 ISBNs. I've got Perl code that checks the ISBN. It is just a matter of combining the two. Amen, Amen and Amen on the modern incomprehensible OOP code. I guess we are just two old farts. Double hmmm. Yet another idea to throw onto the pile of todos. Bgwhite (talk) 22:26, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: User:Xqbot was fixing missing reflists too. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC case opened[edit]

You were recently recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 26, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. Before adding evidence please review the scope of the case. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:10, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC draft principles & findings[edit]

Hello. This is a courtesy note that the draft findings and principles in the Media Viewer RfC case have now been posted. The drafters of the proposed decision anticipate a final version of the PD will be posted after 11 August. You are welcome to give feedback on the workshop page. For the Committee, Lord Roem ~ (talk) 02:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

So many proposals. I do note that my comments were not ignored, several of the links that I provided may now be found in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Workshop#Media Viewer roll-out and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Media Viewer RfC/Workshop#Publicising of Media Viewer. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC arbitration case - extension of closure dates[edit]

Hello, you are receiving this message because you have commented on the Media Viewer RfC arbitration case. This is a courtesy message to inform you that the closure date for the submission of evidence has been extended to 17 August 2014 and the closure date for workshop proposals has been extended to 22 August 2014, as has the expected date of the proposed decision being posted. The closure dates have been changed to allow for recent developments to be included in the case. If you wish to comment, please review the evidence guidance. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


I used the pre-loaded "Submit an edit request", and for some reason it added the template request. I can't figure it out. Viriditas (talk) 11:13, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I've looked into this since my edit. The protection log shows that the article was raised from semi-prot to template-prot at 06:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC) and to full-prot at 10:45, 19 July 2014 (UTC) - in between those times you submitted your edit request at 10:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC). I edited at 10:49, so by the time that I spotted it, it had only just been raised to full-prot. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Note that you don't need to change the request template when the protection level changes. It will fix itself the next time the page is purged or edited. Jackmcbarn (talk) 14:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Footnote - Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant[edit]

First, I am not sure where to send this question in Wikipedia, but as you have helped before on technical matters (you answered my query about yesterday), perhaps you can help, but if not, please tell me where I can send it. I am cleaning up the footnotes in Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, found a footnote that had no URL, but managed to track down the source via google. (The original footnote just said, "Senate Report on Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq, Conclusion 5".) The footnote I made is #141 and cites one particular document from the Senate Report on Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq (N.B. there are several docs that go to make up this Report), and specifically Conclusions 5 and 6 in it. I have made the right footnote, but when I click on the link now, the right doc is called up, but now missing Conclusion 5 and 6; it stops at Conclusion 2 and the rest of the page is blank. I have looked at google again and the Wayback Machine, where it has been retrieved many times, and from a quick sample, the URLs are all the same as this one, and none of them have Conclusions 5 and 6 either, just the same blank space after Conclusion 2. I am not dreaming; I did see Conclusions 5 and 6, which were the back-up for the quotations in the text, and I checked the quotes against them. I cannot understand it. I somehow managed to hit on a link that had Conclusions 5 and 6, and am almost certain I used that URL to make the footnote. I hope you or someone can help! I will come back here for your reply. -- P123ct1 (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

What was the exact search string that you used for Google? --Redrose64 (talk) 20:39, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I've just found it. The missing parts were in a different set of conclusions in the document, which I didn't spot. These are all pdf files, and for some reason the pdf search function does not work on this laptop, so I was flicking through hundreds of pages manually and hampered by that. Also, I'm not used to manipulating several screens at a time, so found that tricky; I am still paper-based in my head and find it much easier to deal with paper docs in front of me. I haven't been editing on Wikipedia for very long and am always stumbling up against technical problems; thanks for your help in sorting out some of them recently. My apologies for wasting your time! --P123ct1 (talk) 22:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Freud Talk page archive is posted.[edit]

Hello Redrose64: Could I request that you look at the Freud Talk page which has only recently been taken off administrator only lock. The issue of WP:Copyvio still remains, and if it is recommended that I place a copyvio notice on the Page then let me know. Since I have actually read the book from cover to cover, you may direct further inquiry about the actual contents of the book to me and I can answer as best I am able to do. If you could look at the Copyvio issue as it is raised on the Talk page at Freud. FelixRosch (talk) 18:29, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

@FelixRosch: I assume that you mean Talk:Sigmund Freud. There is only one thread there, which is a WP:WALLOFTEXT and it's WP:TLDR. In any case, I'm at a loss as to why you would ask me to look at it: I'm not a copyright expert. Have you followed the advice at WP:CPI? --Redrose64 (talk) 19:07, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello Redrose: Yes that is the correct, and thanks for getting back. My note to you above was in response to the adjustments you made on the Freud page after it was page locked. I only re-posted the long discussion previous discussion for the record, and was actually hoping that you would go straight to the comment at the end which I posted today. In short form, someone is claiming that Freud became a regular professor which never occurred. During Talk discussion someone incorrectly claimed that Prof. Peter Gay said that he did, asserting on Wikipedia that a living author said something which he never said or wrote (recall Seigenthaller and BLP issues of Wikipedia saying that someone living said or did something which they never said). The page was locked before I could fix it. Now the Page is unlocked and I can (a) fix the edit, (b) mark the page for Copyvio, or (c) mark the page with template as BLP since Wiki claims a living author said or wrote something which he never said. I shall follow-up on which ever one you think is closest to fixing the error, since I don't think it needs a copyright expert to make protect Wikipedia from stating that a living author has said or written something which they never said or wrote. FelixRosch (talk) 21:58, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
I have made exactly one edit to that page - this is it - a change from {{pp-semi-indef|small=yes}} to {{pp-dispute|small=yes}} because the page was fully protected and had the wrong protection template, which had caused it to show in Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates. I know very little about what various people have written or said about Freud, and am in no position to judge who is right and who is wrong. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:45, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello Redrose: Thanks for getting back. While writing my last message above, someone had posted the Casliber suggestion on the Freud page from 5 weeks ago and it looks like User:Martin is accepting it as solving the issue. My appreciation for your explaining your one time edit at the Freud page also. Thanks. FelixRosch (talk) 15:29, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Category:Vale of Rheidol Railway stations[edit]

Category:Vale of Rheidol Railway stations, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Armbrust The Homunculus 07:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Admin or rollback rights[edit]

Hi, do you have administrator or rollback rights on Wikipedia? I know you just changed all of my signatures from a template to a substituted one. --Allen talk 00:17, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

   Sounds like a righteous series of edits, User talk:Redrose64. I don't know of specific policy against what the inquiring editor did, but i don't like it either, and don't let anyone tell you that you need to have special status to correct it. If you reach a point of feeling annoyed about pushback or reversion, i expect we could work up an RfC that we'd both be comfortable signing.
--Jerzyt 07:37, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
@AllenHAcNguyen: I didn't change any of your signatures from a template to a substituted one: I changed those of your signatures that used a transcluded template into the standard form that would have been produced without signature customisation: [[User:AllenHAcNguyen|AllenHAcNguyen]] ([[User talk:AllenHAcNguyen|talk]]). No substitution was involved - straight copy & paste.
I was observing the policy WP:SIG#NT, which states "Transclusions of templates ... in signatures (like those which appear as {{User:Name/sig}}, for example) are forbidden" which is associated with WP:SIGCLEAN: "If a signature violates the guidelines for signatures, ... you may edit the signature to the standard form with correct information (—{{subst:User|USERNAME}} TIMESTAMP OF EDIT (UTC)) or some even simpler variant." I used the simpler variant, i.e. the standard form that would have been produced without signature customisation ([[User:USERNAME|USERNAME]] ([[User talk:USERNAME|talk]]) TIMESTAMP OF EDIT (UTC)).
Whether I am an admin or a rollbacker is irrelevant: none of the pages were protected, and so any user could have followed policy and made those edits. It is clear from your user talk page that you persistently and wilfully violate WP:SIG#NT, which some consider to be a blockable offense. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:12, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
So none of the signature templates are allowed on Wikipedia? --Allen talk 17:34, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The only signature templates are the {{subst:unsigned}} group, which are used when another user fails to sign a post to a discussion page. SineBot (talk · contribs) uses these all the time. They are not for signing your own posts. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:00, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The preceding unsigned comment by a user who signed my talk page without a signature I put an unsigned template there. So I check the difference of it on my talk page. And also why did you edited my user page removed yourself from my friends list? --Allen talk 03:51, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I explained why in the edit summary. I never watch that TV show, or anything like it. I do not wish to be associated with it. I also have no idea what you mean by "the preceding unsigned comment by a user who signed my talk page without a signature I put an unsigned template there" - your English is extremely difficult to comprehend. Is it not your first language? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
English is my first native language what I used and it's useful. --Allen talk 20:49, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

You have been active at the article or talk page, so here's a note about Anarcho-capitalism[edit]

I have nominated Anarcho-capitalism for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Binksternet (talk) 18:13, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

@Binksternet: I hardly qualify. I removed a template in response to an edit request. That's all. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:33, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
No sweat! Thanks for the response. Binksternet (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

In appreciation[edit]

NBA Barnstar.png The NBA WikiProject Barnstar
For surviving the onslaught of expired protection templates needing removal during the whirlwind rumor-filled NBA free agency period. —Bagumba (talk) 19:50, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Thank you --Redrose64 (talk) 19:59, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits[edit]

Hi Redrose64 the recent edits I had made to I believe are right, please can i revert them to the way I did them please, many thanks :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:42, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Not one of them was sourced, and at least one of them removed content that was sourced. Your edits also followed the same pattern as an editor who is known to be disruptive. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Why do you keep changing all the edits I am making? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaaccckkkeey (talkcontribs) 08:44, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Why do you keep changing sourced information and adding unsourced information? --Redrose64 (talk) 14:37, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean? The information I'm adding is perfectly fine and correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaaccckkkeey (talkcontribs) 15:24, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Are Jaaccckkkeey and the same person? --Redrose64 (talk) 15:37, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Jebel Dahar[edit]

Hi, can you sort out the pin map for this? I suspect I may need to create a separate Template:Location map Tunisia relief and a different parameter connecting to the location map to get it to work.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: Try altering |map=Tunisian Republic location map Topographic.png to |map=Tunisia. You may wish to set |label_position= as well. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:44, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Why Redrose64?[edit]

  • "I am an enigma ... or am I?" quote from some 60s Avengers spoof. Gregkaye (talk) 17:03, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Oddly my biggest recent contribution to Wikipedia is the very divisible English rose (personal description). I'm also guessing you play chess or drafts :) Gregkaye (talk) 17:11, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I spell it "draughts". I don't play many board games, but I do drink draught beer. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:37, 2 August 2014 (UTC)


{{talkback|I dream of horses|ts=22:34, 3 August 2014 (UTC)}}

August 2014[edit]

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Face-smile.svg Thank you --Redrose64 (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Railway RDT[edit]

Thanks for that. it's late here and my brain stopped answering the helm about an hour ago. Britmax (talk) 21:58, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Citation problem[edit]

Thanks for your help yesterday. Now I have a relatively minor problem. I was looking for someone who has worked with citation templates. I have an unusual page number problem.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:45, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

@Vchimpanzee: Er, what problem on which page? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:04, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Several. The page I currently am dealing with is in The York Observer, a section of The Charlotte Observer. Oh, wait, it's not a draft. Springs Global. I'm in the middle of a major addition that could take days or weeks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:07, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Try |at=York Observer, p. 1 --Redrose64 (talk) 22:30, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Archiving of my talk page[edit]

Hey, you set up my talk page archiving. However the links don't show up in the box. How do I fix that? NickGibson3900 - Talk - Sign my Guestbook 09:50, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I forgot to set the root dir --Redrose64 (talk) 10:23, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Thanks for archiving my talk page for me. NickGibson3900 - Talk - Sign my Guestbook 10:39, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Thank you --Redrose64 (talk) 10:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Tunceli/Dersim Dispute[edit]

Moved to User talk:Master Tyranus#August 2014: Redrose64 (talk) 18:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your work here. I went for protecting the Wrong Version, figuring that a history merge could be carried out whenever if necessary, but there is merit to keeping the old name for now. Hopefully the involved editors can figure it out on talk. Keep it up. - 2/0 (cont.) 21:59, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

@2over0: I left some comments at User talk:Master Tyranus#August 2014. Their edits - all 46 of them - were made within 24 hours, and the vast majority had a single purpose: changing all instances of "Dersim" to "Tunceli". Which one of these two is correct, I really don't know: but I do feel that unilateral changing of one to the other, without indicating either a prior discussion or an existing guideline, is disruptive; as are the several instances of a WP:CUTPASTE move. It is the latter which I reverted, primarily in the interests of maintaining the integrity of Wikipedia. It might be that Tunceli is correct: in which case the pages should be moved in the proper manner; or it might be that Dersim is correct: in which case most of the remaining edits of that user will need to be reverted. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Reinstatement of link regarding Newport Railway Station.[edit]

This citing reference was removed as the website link is broken and no longer provides information for the citing reference. I therefore cannot see whay you have reinstated it. I suggest it is removed or a revised reference provided to a website that actually works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gif absarnt (talkcontribs) 22:02, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

@Gif absarnt: Have a look at the edit that I made immediately after. I added a {{dead link}}, as advised at WP:BADLINK. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:07, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Oops, my mistake, sorry! --Gif (talk) 22:26, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Argh, confused[edit]

I adjusted User:MiszaBot settings to minthreadsleft = 10 at:
Talk:Jewish_Bolshevism There are just 5 threads currently at:
Talk:Jewish_Bolshevism but records at:
page history show that Lowercase sigmabot III was still active
confused I am. can you advise? Gregkaye (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

@Gregkaye: Several pairs of closing braces were in the wrong place, these seem to have been caused some weeks ago. For example, this edit by Jimjilin (talk · contribs) had inexplicably moved those for {{User:MiszaBot/config}} earlier on, so that three parameters |minthreadstoarchive=1|algo=old(30d)|archive=Talk:Jewish Bolshevism/Archive %(counter)d were no longer inside that template, and so were ignored; and this edit by DD2K (talk · contribs) - which may have been an attempt to fix the earlier error - had moved those for {{talkarchivenav}} to also enclose three parameters |maxarchivesize=100K |counter=5 |minthreadsleft=10 which it does not recognise, but which actually belonged to the {{User:MiszaBot/config}}. The effect of this was that lowercase sigmabot III (talk · contribs) ignored them, using its default values instead - |counter=1 |minthreadsleft=5 - and so the next thread that was archived went into the wrong archive page. For {{User:MiszaBot/config}}, it is important that each parameter go on its own line; that no parameter includes a newline; and that the closing double braces must be on a line of their own. I've fixed up those closing braces with this edit, and I've moved the thread from the wrong archive to the correct one. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Yea, I was trying to fix the errors. Before my edit you could see the "archive = Talk:Jewish Bolshevism/Archive %(counter)d" on the Talk page, and the Wikldbot entry was garbled. I thought I fixed it, but evidently not. Sorry. :-P Dave Dial (talk) 19:15, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Rr, that really helps :) Gregkaye (talk) 07:25, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

PAGENAME kept[edit]

I implemented the (now) obvious compromise.

I tried closing the RfD. I hope you weren't bothered too much by all this, but would you ensure the RfD is really "keep" and closed? Thank you. — CpiralCpiral 20:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

@Cpiral: See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Administrator instructions. You didn't close the discussion, and you didn't put {{Old RfD}} on the talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:40, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


Just FYI. I am in Wikimania too. Have we met in person? -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:05, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

@Magioladitis: We may have done; but I don't recall. I tried checking the name tags of people that I spoke to, but some weren't wearing them, and others had written their real names, not their Wikipedia login IDs. But looking at the pics recently added to your user page (I assume that you're in one or more of them), I don't recall speaking to any of these people, sorry. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:00, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Informal dispute intervention?[edit]

   At the risk of proving again that No good deed goes unpunished, i note you were kind enuf to point out that in the bulk of the cases L[ower]C[ase &]FirstItalic[in]Title sufficed. (I'm pretty sure i eliminated all the warnings, and i've built a list of 32 articles, of which i've double-checked about half for warnings, consistency, and the conversion from MagicWord to template that you urged.)
   Despite the warning i gave on the nom'n page, i've worn the Order of the Mop and Bucket (with the "Mostly Harmless" charge) for i guess eleven years now, and logged a lot of hours pursuing my varied interests by editing, yet have not cultivated social relationships here (let alone attending off-line wiki-events). I now find myself, after all these years, facing an editing situation that will clearly require 3rd-party assistance (tho hopefully not step-by-step DR -- but then, i've already been surprised today by the response to my own proffer.)
   I'm not gonna claim that i'm free of responsibility for bad communication, but my hope that being calm in drawing attention to how over-the-top and inflammatory the (now re-iterated) accusation of "POVFORK" is, was clearly too optimistic.
   I'll watch this page. Thanks for at least your reading time.
--Jerzyt 05:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

   Ah! I just noticed your attention to Arbcom matters just below the history entry for my immediately preceding entry on this page, which i opened for monitoring purposes. I guess it's a little late to worry about whether i should have let that encourage or inhibit my ... proffer, i guess (if it's ok to use the same two-dollar word twice in one editing session...).
--Jerzyt 06:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
   Ah, and in case it's not obvious, i meant to suggest your looking at my contribs from and since the 2 on Aug 9 and the adjacent ones on the pages i edited. I suppose you are likely, if you accept, to review the record before discussing anything with either of us, and it seems like a bad idea to suggest i volunteer any explanations, intentions, etc. at this point!
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerzy (talkcontribs) 07:00, 13 August 2014‎
@Jerzy: It's not at all clear what you want. I gather that you are in dispute with somebody, and would like an outside opinion; but I can't tell what the dispute is about, nor where the discussion is being held. Excluding signatures and the like, you've given nine links, only one of which is to a discussion - which has two parties, you and me. Another of those nine links, although titled "my contribs from and since the 2 on Aug 9", is actually to the history of this page, and again, I don't see the relevance. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
   No, it's not clear, and your clarity has been valuable. I am turning my back on what is for me now clearly a gumption trap (at least in the sense i was given to understand without ever opening the novel). If your sense of the matter is that my doing so is irresponsible, or occasion for comment of any sort, you have my attention. But IMO you have already been a valuable catalyst for my thinking, you've earned my thanks for your patience and effort, and i've zero resistance to further input from you. I apologize if i've abused that patience.
   IMO it's a shame that the barriers to adequately covering the 2 or 3 topics surrounding the verb phrase "to beg the question" are as high as they seem to me, and that some IMO philospher-kings are confused about NOT, but there are other editors for the articles and other articles for me -- and the slow-grinding mills, etc. Thanks again for your patience and your service.
--Jerzyt 23:14, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Label question[edit]

Hey Redrose, I was looking at Monstercat (label), and I can't help but wonder--are we really a directory, listing all the label's records and all their artists? And shouldn't those artists at least have bluelinks? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Looks like it's had a lot of recent activity by IPs and newbies. Have WP:RECORD LABELS been informed? --Redrose64 (talk) 18:49, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
That place isn't very active, and I didn't see any guidelines. (But I found your name on the talk page...) Drmies (talk) 18:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, from five years ago, when I'd been editing for no more than ten weeks. Notice that my first post to that page was a q that was never answered - my subsequent posts were made while I was still watching the page, waiting for an answer to my first post. Try WP:ALBUMS? --Redrose64 (talk) 18:56, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, to answer your question, I don't have much of a problem with a simple bulleted list, but YMMV... Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:21, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


Hi, need your template coding expertise, could you look at Template:Documentation/preload and advise us about whether where the brackets/braces are placed that it will avoid any unwanted whitespace? There is also a concern about the opening and closing braces not being aligned. Since I'm not a code expert, would like your input, thank you! Funandtrvl (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Where is it being discussed? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
On my user page at User talk:Funandtrvl#Template:Documentation/preload. How do I properly move the discussion to the template's talk page? Funandtrvl (talk) 16:28, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Use {{moved from}} like this and {{moved to}} like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:42, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I've moved the discussion to: Template talk:Documentation#Template:Documentation/preload‎. Funandtrvl (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Tube map[edit]

Hey, don’t blame me! it was DavidCane (talk · contribs) who botched things up with this edit. Useddenim (talk) 17:34, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Leslie Howe Protection[edit]

I'm not used to the new protection options. Thank you for catching my mistake. Best, Tiptoety talk 19:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

@Tiptoety: Oh, then you'll have fun when they introduce a fifth prot level that we mere admins can't select. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Empty lines, "clear left", dddot and jerky matter[edit]

Hi, and many thanks for editing my "Jerk(physics)" amendments. I'm new around here and not very succesful in orienting myself in the preliminaries to edit Wikipedia and in the documents on this. I'm certainly aware of the adverse effects of blank lines, and, of course, I did not like how the inserted pictures were placed in the layout, but even when seeing your {{clear left}}, or just the "clear" alone, I did not mange to find it in MoS and in help on Wikimarkup. I am still not finished looking for the treatment of images wrt layout, also.

I remeber you as extremely helpful and knowledgeable in the problem of my HTML list some week ago, so may I ask you again for help and perhaps some advise (links), how to efficently climb the steep learning curve for editing Wikipedia.

Sorry, your last edit of removing one "d" from "dddot" does not hit the spot. A third derivative is needed there. I enabled Mathjax in my preferences and could render the three dots and only afterwards, when logged out I saw the red error massage and now your edit. To maintain correct propositions I had to remove the whole Newton formulation for the third derivative of the location, the second derivative would have been simply wrong. Thats an other question: do you know a workaround for this? Thanks again and in advance. Purgy (talk) 09:47, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

When entering a formula using <math>...</math>, it's best to test it both with "MathJax (experimental)" enabled and disabled.
I had assumed that \dddot was a typo for \ddot but if intentional, we need some other means. The main help page is Help:Math; as noted there, MediaWiki uses a subset of AMS-LaTeX markup, so some features are absent. According to Math into LATEX: An Introduction to LATEX and AMS-LATEX, Appendix A.12 (p. 355), the \dddot and \ddddot commands "require the amsmath package", I guess we don't have that. I think you should enquire at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:03, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, I will inquire there for the "dddot". May I however come back to you for the {{clear left}} and {{clear}} you used in arranging my thumbnails so successfully? Really, I tried to search in MoS and elsewhere, but was left without any success. Any link, please? If I get an answer from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics, I'll postback here. Thank you. Purgy (talk) 10:18, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

{{clear}} and {{clear left}} are templates (click the links to see their documentation) that in essence provide a MediaWiki-friendly way of applying the 'clear' property of CSS.
Another place that you can ask about <math>...</math> syntax is at the talk page of Help:Math, which is Help talk:Displaying a formula - and I see that the very first thread there relates to the dddot problem. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Redrose64, Salix alba supplied a work around: \overset{...}{x} \overset{...}{x} in his reply to my request in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics/Typography, just FYI, and thanks for the clear, I'm already investigating, :) Purgy (talk) 12:57, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Redrose64, thank you cordially for caring for my edits of "Jerk". Please, let me state, that I really try hard to make my links totally de rigeur, and I am quite assured, I'll make it some day. I think I have already developed some feeling for that clear-template and I applied it, imho satisfactory, to a multiple image (somewhat proud of myself). I plan more of this.
Regarding this circuit with diodes, I have announced in the talk pages of talk:chaos theory (note, no underscore anymore!) and talk:jerk (physics) to move this section since it is not really belonging to mechanics. I plan to leave the sketching sentences in the lede, anyhow.
I hope it is OK to edit this old question, and thanks again, I feel the fun in being guided. Purgy (talk) 18:36, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Fields Medal page[edit]

Hello there,I'm that user who's been the victim of editing the Fields Medal page(i.e.I got blocked with charge of Vandalism.).I've got three question:1)When the current protected status of that page ends,Does the page current contents remain in place or they are replaced with the old version? 2)I've prepared a new and somehow comprehensive table about Fields medalists.I posted this table on the discussion section of the Fields Medal page,and I request for comments about this(If You come there and see my that table I will be really glad,and don't forget to put your comment about it down there!;-)),but so far,just one person did so.Is it normal? 3)Should I submit a request for edit to replace the new table with current one?Or should I wait for reaching a consensus?Thank You. Rezameyqani (talk) 07:50, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Rezameyqani (talk) 08:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

@Rezameyqani: (1) The expiry of a protection will not alter the contents of the page. (2) I think you refer to the table at Talk:Fields Medal#Table format (to which I added the missing {{reflist}}); this is now a RfC, and RfCs normally run for thirty days. People don't usually rush to comment on RfCs - you will find that the comments are spread out over that 30-day period. (3) No. You should wait until the RfC is over, which will be thirty days from the first timestamp, i.e. at 14:12, 16 September 2014 (UTC). It may well be that the RfC is in favour of your proposal, or it may go against, or some other version might be suggested. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:52, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
OK,Thank you for your time and patience to teach a Newbie!I'll wait until that timeRezameyqani (talk) 10:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Lichfield Trent Valley (Services)[edit]

Lichfield Trent Valley station is wrong, there is still a few trains from Crewe via Northampton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ollier642 (talkcontribs) 20:19, 20 August 2014‎

@Ollier642: Then please discuss it on the article's talk page. There are far too many people making little changes to the service information of various railway station articles, that get altered again a day or two later, sometimes back to how they were. More at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#IP adding timetable information. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:38, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I am surprised this hasn't come up earlier[edit]

Hi R. I thought we would be dealing with this Talk:Doctor Who#Doctor Who citation available from the moment "The Time of the Doctor" finished airing. The 11th Doctors line about "Mr Grumpy" and the reference to the events with the hand in "The Stolen Planet" and "Journey's End" as well as the "whole new regeneration cycle" - first offered to the Master in The Five Doctors if memory serves. Of course, all this is WP:OR and WP:SYNTH and Moffat is just as likely to take us in a direction that has nothing to do with it and I am not saying that any of it should be included in our articles. Mostly I wanted to stop by and wish you happy viewing this weekend as we enter Capaldi's era as our favourite Time Lord. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 18:51, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. At 19:00 BST (18:00 UTC) we had an edition of The One Show with Peter Capaldi, showing short clips: the recent world tour, "The Fires of Pompeii", a script read-through, photocall, quick quotes from Steven Moffat, Jenna Coleman. Capaldi has denied the rumours about Coleman. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Sounds like enjoyable viewing. We had a couple BBCA specials hosted by Peter Davison. Several of the interviewees mentioned that Capaldi is so appreciative of being cast in the show that he is sitting in on scenes that he isn't in, effects shots, Murray Gold's recording sessions etc etc. I am so lucky that we get the episodes on the same day. That makes it much easier to avoid "spoilers." Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 19:32, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Alas, it's Late Summer Bank Holiday, so I shall be at my mother's, who has refused to watch DW since about 1965 (I was one year old at the time) on the grounds that it's "too frightening". My father liked to watch it, but he died way back in 1986. I'll be PVRing it for Tuesday. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
You are the second WikiP editor that I have chatted with who is away from home this weekend! Safe travels. MarnetteD|Talk 20:06, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
If you take these lyrics and substitute in the line "A new Doctor tonight" I think you get something that works pretty well as a theme song each time we get a regeneration episode. I started hearing it in my head when Chris turned into David. BTW Jon Pertwee was in the London cast of the play that this song is from in 1963 and he also had a small role in the film!! Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 02:47, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
@MarnetteD: I watched it, despite Mum wanting the to see the prog about Egyptian Archaeology on the other side. She didn't like DW. She likes Victorian costume drama, is absolutely fine with married lesbians, and not too upset about humanoid lizards; but dislikes Sontarans (and anybody else who carries weapons) and positively went out of the room when the insides of the steampunk cyborg were visible.
Do you recall me talking about Ideal at User talk:MarnetteD/archive27#The Five Doctors - did you get around to watching any of those? In Ideal, there's a character called Colin (who appears in 38 of the 53 episodes), who is played by Ben Crompton (without a beard). This is the same actor who (with a beard) plays Ross in tonight's DW - he's one of the three soldiers who go on the mission with the Doctor and Clara. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:47, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping. I was at a barbecue just last night and the joke was "It is odd that there was internet buzz about the lesbian kiss but little about it being inter-species as well" I laughed and said "well I think captain Jack took care of that years ago." I also had one fun reaction to "Deep Breath" - as a longtime devotee of Local Hero when the Capldi's Doctor yelled "Have you seen this face before" I wanted to shout "Yes!! I saw it kissing Marina's toes until she spread them and we saw that they were webbed" Heehee. Sadly, Ideal hasn't been added to my collection yet :-( Other things (like 37 Days and a nice Werner Herzog set) keep getting in the way. I haven't forgotten it though and I look forward to seeing it one day. Thanks for letting me know about the acting connection in tonight's episode. PS I wish your mom could give Dan Starkey's Sontaran a chance. He is pitch perfect and makes me laugh out loud at times. Oh well :-) Enjoy the rest of your weekend! MarnetteD|Talk 20:02, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Personal attack?[edit]

Much as it pains me to complain about a fellow admin, does the edit summary constitute a personal attack? Getting a bit fed up seeing this, especially when he can't even get my name right. Mjroots (talk) 08:21, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

@Mjroots: It doesn't seem like a PA to me, it's a cleanup of a ref that's got redundant information. You began it with <ref name=Times080234 /> but then followed it with {{Cite newspaper The Times |articlename=Ship News |day_of_week=day |date= February 1834 |page_number= |issue=153 |column= }}</ref> which was visible in the article text as
"Ship News" The Times (London). day, February 1834. (153), </ref>
An alternative to Bgwhite's removal would have been to remove the slash from <ref name=Times080234 /> to make <ref name=Times080234> but then I think that AWB won't permit that.
Some time ago, I noticed that you often make typos when you edit, and return to them in order to fix them. I may be wrong, but I think that you may have poor eyesight (my own is deteriorating), and perhaps a note on your user page to explain this may help people like Bgwhite to understand. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
The typos are more a case of fat fingers than failing eyesight. Probably a case of trying to type as fast as I can think (which I can't lol). Apart from that, I'm often in pain when editing, which does affect one's concentration. Mjroots (talk) 16:12, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Mjroots Could you atleast turn on bracketbot. Alot of the errors are bracket related. You have philosophical reasons for not wanting it and refuse to turn it on. But, Bracketbot will tell you exactly where the problems are located. It will also not waste my time fixing the broken brackets. Over the past few days, I've made seven separate edits on List of shipwrecks in 1833. I've made edits to over 20 ship articles in the past week. Having health problems is one thing, but refusing to turn on bracketbot to help fix things is a different story. Bgwhite (talk) 18:21, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: - what is the current delay before Bracketbot notifies? I don't mind bots alerting me to issues, but Bracketbot wasn't giving sufficient time before posting, hence the denial. DPLbot is a useful bot, as I can't remember every dab; but it doesn't pounce the minute I make an error! Mjroots (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
@Mjroots: Looking at the last two BracketBot notifications on my talk page, it seems that the current delay is 10 minutes.
I find that User:Anomie/ajaxpreview.js is very helpful, as it adds a button to the edit form to preview the current section, with a references section included. Using this preview helps me to catch some of my own reference mistakes before saving, and before someone else notices. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 03:22, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Northern Ireland railway station geocoordinates[edit]

Many thanks for your work on this. It's much appreciated. -- The Anome (talk) 13:29, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

@The Anome: I've been doing one line at once, as I find time. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:36, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Hatting discussions!?[edit]

Hi Redrose64,

I have been involved in a requested move discussion and in 3 1/2 hours of my last comment it was hatted as in circles. Is this right/fair?
I hope its OK asking.



Gregkaye (talk) 18:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Sorry to bother. Its all sorted. How are you though?

Media Viewer RfC arbitration case - motion to suspend case[edit]

You are receiving this message as you have either commented on a case page or are named as a party to the case. A motion has been proposed to suspend the Media Viewer RfC arbitration case for a maximum of 60 days due to recent developments. If you wish to comment regarding the motion there is a section on the proposed decision talk page for this. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talkcontribslogs). Message delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 02:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


Hello, Redrose. I was looking to geocode this article, but the 1940s OS map (as here shows two halts along that line at Rhydyfelin, one to the northwest of the village and one to the northeast. Do any of your UK-railway sources perhaps give some indication which of the two is the halt that's the topic of the article? Deor (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Centre one of the red dots in the pale square. Then click "View at", select a suitable date from the scrolly list on the right; try for 1:2500 scale, although sometimes only 1:10560 is available. See what detail you can make out without buying a subscription. Using this technique, I find that the one to the north-east is close to Dynea Colliery, so must be Dynea Halt; on this basis, the one to the north-west must be Rhydyfelin (High Level) Halt. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I see you've geotagged the article with the coordinates of the pre-1928 location of the halt, so I've added those of the later location in the body of the article. I'm never quite sure which should be the main article coordinates in such a situation. Deor (talk) 20:19, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I hadn't appreciated that there were two. I suppose the coords could be exchanged, but I'm not aware of a guideline for that. WP:NC (UK stations) shows that when choosing a name, "the last official name should be used for closed stations"; perhaps coords should do the same. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, the coords of both locations (which are not all that far apart) are in the article, and it's not a great matter which are displayed in the title position. I doubt that many folks will care either way. Thanks again for your help, in any event. Deor (talk) 17:47, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0[edit]

Moved to Talk:LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0#Detail overload?: Redrose64 (talk) 10:51, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


Did stop them closing Liverpool Central with usage over 12million. Echo--Kitchen Knife (talk) 22:27, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

@Kitchen Knife: Ah, but that was a temporary closure. The way that (talk) wrote it, it reads as a permanent closure for Moorfields. That sort of claim needs a ref. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

The URL changes[edit]

I'm sorry Redrose64, but can I ask: How about that thing csn be in user preferences? It bothers me. I'm not a fan of it, and I'm sure if I post in my sections of what I wrote, I won't get responses anymore. I wrote a message to Matma Rex and he's not responding. This things is a disaster, it's ruined my new month. A Great Catholic Person (talk) 22:10, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @A Great Catholic Person: Please remember that WP:CIVIL includes edit summaries too. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 22:37, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @A Great Catholic Person: You don't actually say what thing in user preferences. In any case, I don't control anybody's user preferences except for my own, and I don't have any ability to control what is available at user preferences, with the sole exception of the various items under Preferences → Gadgets - and of those, the only ones that I've ever amended were:
Does your problem concern one of these? But whatever it is that you're talking about, edit summaries like this won't help you at all. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:46, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Redrose64, I want the option of allowing URL changing in the preferences - I can disable it, if it were allowed.A Great Catholic Person (talk) 22:51, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Then you're asking the wrong person, and by starting off confrontational, you're asking in the wrong way too. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:36, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Who should I ask then, because a big one who knows this can't reply?A Great Catholic Person (talk) 01:17, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
To propose a new item in Preferences → Gadgets, see Wikipedia:Gadget/proposals; for all other tabs at Preferences, file a feature request at bugzilla:. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:59, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

WP:FindMyPast access[edit]

You received a Wikipedia email about Wikipedia Library access to WP:FindMyPast about 3 weeks ago. We currently don't have record of your response on the Google form. Please make sure to follow the instructions in that email for obtaining access, Sadads (talk) 15:46, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

@Sadads: Oh, thanks. I don't think I deleted it: I need to search again, possibly even check my email spam box. Is there a deadline by which I must register? --Redrose64 (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
Sooner the better for registering, and I can always resend the email, if you can't find it, Sadads (talk) 16:11, 3 September 2014 (UTC)


I was wondering what was your preferred method, now that reflinks has gone? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Same as it ever was, since I never used reflinks; and not only that, found too many problems in reflinks edits made by others, e.g. User talk:Lotje/Archives/2013/January#Please be careful with authors, User talk:Dispenser/Reflinks/Archive 1#Dates are not authors. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I'd agree, dates are not authors, usually. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
Martinevans123 This is "replacement" set up by the author of reflinks. There are alot of politics and security issues about this, as you can see from the page. Long story short, your tool has to have an open source licence to run on WMFLabs. Dispenser doesn't want to open source his code. He also wants ~23TB of space, which works out to 1MB per link. People find this impossibly too much per link. Note, if you use the tool, Dispenser is storing your IP. He can then match who edited the wikipage to the IP used on reflinks to know who you are.
This was emailed to WMFLabs people of few days ago. "mw:Citoid is a new web service under development that performs full citation metadata extraction for a number of supported sources, and basic metadata extraction (<title>) for others. It's not working perfectly yet, but it is running in Labs right now, and a nice front-end might be a good alternative to the (now gone) reflinks tool ... There is an existing user script for VisualEditor that demonstrates the basic usage." Bgwhite (talk) 22:50, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: I suspect that Martinevans123 is aware of Citoid, since their only comment at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Letter petitioning WMF to reverse recent decisions was added two posts below the first mention of Citoid. Please note that I'm no longer participating in that thread: the comments directed at me after the post by Martinevans123 will show you why not. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:29, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of that thread. I only look at the bottom of tech pump about once a week. My only comment to that mess of a thread... I've taken over a tool that was abandoned when the programmer left. It would have died when toolserver was turned off. A majority of the code had an open source licence, part did not. It was a royal pain and many months to re-engineer the closed code. If it's not an open source license and the programmer leaves, the tools leaves too. I can't count how many times that has happened. Bgwhite (talk) 23:51, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
The "replacement" tool just gives me <class 'oursql.InterfaceError'>. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC) n
Martinevans123, I haven't tried it yet, but... User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks. Must have been announced somewhere recently as it popped up on my watchlist today be several editors. Bgwhite (talk) 04:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Bgwhite, many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:19, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Buckinghamshire[edit]

Are you still a contributor to WikiProject Buckinghamshire?
The portal says it may be inactive, and I am interested in contributing.

Uamaol (talk) 21:51, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I never bother with portals. Portals are not the same as WikiProjects; I seem to recall doing something for WikiProject Buckinghamshire a few years back. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buckinghamshire has fewer than thirty watchers, so I would say that not many people are interested in it. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:56, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Quote box[edit]

Hi Redrose, thanks for helping with that quote box. I really struggle with these things (but I'm trying to learn), so information like that helps a lot. Best, SlimVirgin (talk) 03:40, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

@SlimVirgin: TheDJ seems to have gone on indefinite wikibreak (more here and previous posts on the same page), so if you have any other CSS queries, feel free to ask here. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:05, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
That's very kind of you, thank you. I'm really sorry to hear about TheDJ. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:43, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Article assessment table[edit]

Hey, Redrose. Are you still involved with the maintenance of Template:WP1? If so, I could use your help in figuring out why a particular WikiProject article assessment table has stopped automatically updating. Do you have a few minutes to take a look? Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: I was never "involved with the maintenance of Template:WP1". I made one edit to {{WP1}}, at somebody else's request. Anyway, on the talk page of that template, I guess you mean this thread, so I suppose that the thread above it is where you got my name from. In that thread, you link to Wikipedia:WikiProject University of Florida/Florida Gators subproject, and (I'm guessing again) I suspect that your problem is the table at Wikipedia:WikiProject University of Florida/Florida Gators subproject#Aritcle Assessments.
Now I'm going into unfamiliar territory. Immediately above that table are three links; if I follow the first of these (Index), in that page select "Project summary tables" from the left sidebar, select "Florida Gators" from the list after "Generate table", and then click Make table, I get this table.
I agree that there is a discrepancy between that table and the one currently displayed here. But this is really not my area; I can't help with that. But there are plenty of links around the place which you could be trying. For instance, in all of the pages reached by that Index link, there are two links titled Bug reports - have you tried those? Then, the table's history shows that it's bot-generated, and I operate no bots. According to the bot's home page, it's "operated by Theopolisme and Wolfgang42" (two more to try); that page also says "to report any problems you encounter, please use Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index, and the same link is given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Using the bot#Maintaining the lists: it says "if you have any problems, please contact us" - there's another one to try. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:37, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, RedRose. Indeed, I found your name on the talk page, knowledgeably answering another editor's inquiry, so I assumed . . . .
Following the additional links you provided above, I eventually found a page a link to a WMF tool page where the operation of the WP1 bot can be initiated manually -- which worked. As to why it is no longer updating automatically, I don't have a clue. I will pursue this further with Theopolisme, Wolfgang42 et al. Frankly, I had no conception of the mechanics of how the whole thing worked, and was only too happy to use the updated data without knowing how it all worked -- all very "wizard behind the curtains" to me. Now I've had the introductory survey course, thanks to your links kindly provided above. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:39, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
This is how I got to Template:WP1 in the first place. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
Pardon my ignorance, RR, but I don't understand the meaning of the diff above. You may have to explain. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:45, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
It's a page on my watchlist. It tracks uncompleted protected edit requests for fully protected pages, and presents them as a table, one row per request. The edit that I linked added one row to the table, containing (among other items) links to Template:WP1 and Template talk:WP1#editprotected. The first of these is the template that you named at the start of this thread; and at that time, the second link pointed to this version. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
Ah. Got it. Thanks for helping to partially solve the mystery. FYI, Wolfgang42 and Theopolisme have not been active since June and early August, and their activity seems to have been decreasing before then. That probably has something to do with the failure of the WP1 bot to automatically update the article assessment tables in question. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:34, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

2014 FIFA World Cup editnotices[edit]

Hi Redrose64. I have nominated the 2014 FIFA World Cup editnotices, some of which you created, for deletion. You are welcome to contribute to the deletion discussion. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 04:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Space around infoboxes and images[edit]

Hi Redrose, I was wondering if you know how to create white space around infoboxes and images. I know how to do it with tables; for example, with the table in this section of Christian Science, I wrote "margin-left:30px" to move the text away from the table (it could probably use a little more). But if you look at the infobox at that article, the text seems too close, and I don't know how to fix it. Ditto with the sidebars and images. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:02, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

In Christian Science, the margins in general seem fine to me. Do you find that they are different from other Wikipedia pages? For me, the main problem is with the images. There is no consistent size; many of them seem to be inordinately large - so large, in fact, that the table that you mention is pushed down the page to appear under the "Prayer, testimonies" heading. This is because a floating table cannot be displayed with its top edge any higher than the top edge of the immediately-preceding image. Beginning at the second paragraph of the Tremont Temple, first church building section, the right-hand side is a continuous run of images that doesn't end until this image, part-way through the Works by Mary Baker Eddy section, whose two columns are squashed up by the stack of images.
What I would do is to remove the size specifier from all of the images, and then for those that are taller than they are wide, add the |upright parameter. In this way, all the images will be approximately the same size, and of just two different widths. More at MOS:IMAGES#Size and WP:IMGSIZE. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
I want the images to be large, but I'll take a look at the spacing to try to remove the problems you're seeing. Thanks for pointing that out! Re: the white space, it's not that it's worse there than anywhere else. I was just wondering if you knew how to create more of it, particularly around infoboxes. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:54, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Are you looking at it through a large browser window? I just increased mine to the maximum, and I can see what you mean now. SlimVirgin (talk) 17:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
My screen is 1280 wide (by 1024 high). Other people have screens even wider, so for those people, the image stack will go down even further - and may compromise the columns in the refs. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
I've removed a few images and a sidebar, adjusted some sizes, including of quote boxes, and added some clears. Does it look any better? SlimVirgin (talk) 18:01, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
There are over thirty images with a forced size. Of those, twelve are 220px wide, which shouldn't be necessary because that is the default width for |thumb images; thirteen are 300px wide, which is right at the upper limit for lead section images - but none of these are in the lead, they are in the body; five are odd sizes between those (240px, 250px, 270px); and two are more than 300px wide (File:First Church of Christ Scientist in Boston.JPG is 320px, File:Christian Scientists' Association picnic, Point of Pines, 16 July 1885.jpg is a massive 350px) for which I cannot see any justification. When the article was promoted to GA-class back in February 2013, there were only four images bigger than default - they were all 250px. The Good Article Criteria require (point 2) compliance with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout, which includes image sizes at WP:LAYIM. If your intention is to get the article to FA-class, which requires compliance with Wikipedia:Image use policy, it's not going to manage it as things stand. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:12, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
I'll try to learn how to use the upright parameter, but I've never been able to get it to work so that things look decent. I'm really tired of the long lines of text, tiny images, lack of white space. It's ugly and hard to read – also, I wonder how many people would actually read WP on a wide window, given that we have no columns; people are basically forced to narrow the window. SlimVirgin (talk) 19:45, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
You could always ask WP:GOCE to give it a workover. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Cute grey kitten.jpg

Thanks for all your help!

Phyllis Allen 01:57, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Hastings Line[edit]

The article is finally going to be reviewed for GA status. Floydian (talk · contribs) is doing the review. A very experienced editor who is from Ontario, Canada, so maybe unfamiliar with some of the nuances of British railway technology. I don't see this as posing that great a problem, but maybe you would keep a weather eye on the review and assist me in clarifying any points raised. Mjroots (talk) 20:53, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I watchlisted Talk:Hastings Line/GA1 some months ago: IIRC it was within 12 hours of you nominating it for GA. So today I found out that the GA had started through my watchlist in three different ways: one was by Floydian creating the /GA1 page; the other two were Legobot posting to your talk page and also transcluding the GA page to the main talk page. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Where are you?[edit]

Hey Redrose, where you've been on Wikipedia? --Allen talk 23:10, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Many places, see my contribs. But just a reminder: Wikipedia is not a blog, Web hosting service, or social networking service - this is in relation to recent posts at User talk:AllenHAcNguyen. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:14, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


Hi, I was wondering if you could create or find a way of extracting a list of stub articles created before 1 September 2004 on here?♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:18, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: You've created 95,563 articles in total (here are the last ten), so this query should list all of them. Unfortunately, it times out - I can query off 10,000, but not 100,000. It also doesn't seem to have an offset= parameter to the query string that might help by only querying back from a given point - i.e. &offset=20140901000001 or similar. The copyright note at the bottom names four individuals: Hedonil, Cyberpower678, TParis, X! - perhaps one of them can help to get the information. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:27, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@Redrose64: I don't mean created by me! I didn't join formally until June 2006. I mean a way of finding the oldest articles on here which are still stubs.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:29, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
In which case, sorry, I don't have access to that kind of information. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:33, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I had though the new pages had a place where you could tap in date created. I'd be interested to see the very earliest from 2001.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Special:NewPages goes back thirty days, and no more. The oldest edit which is believed to be still in existence is described at WP:UuU, which indicates that the first article created was WikiPedia. A lot of people would like to see which are the oldest pages, but unfortunately a lot of early revisions were deleted (permanent delete, not an admin's "delete") many years ago. I've never looked into the very early history in any detail - again, because I don't have either the tools or access to the data. An expert on the matter is Graham87 (talk · contribs), who has recovered many early edits, previously thought lost. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
A quick and dirty way to get this information is by checking what links to Wikipedia:Stub, because all stub templates contain a link to that page and the "what links here" feature is ordered by page ID (a higher page ID usually, but not always, means a more recently created page ... but page ID's aren't preserved during deletions). There are a few caveats with this list though; it doesn't count pages that were deleted and later restored, it may not include some pages that were history-merged, and, most importantly, Wikipedia's first 20,000 or so articles were all mass-imported into the current database by Conversion script, so the page ID's in these case are based on the page titles' positions in the alphabet when the pages were imported (e.g. "Geography of American Samoa" was then at the title "American Samoa/Geography").
To get a complete answer to this question, you'll need to ask somebody with access to the Wikimedia Labs database to do a query for you. I don't really know who or where would be the best place to ask, but Wikimedia Labs does have an IRC channel, #wikimedia-labs, and the people pinged above may be able to help. Graham87 14:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Graham. You'd think there would be some way to access all articles in order of creation from the very beginning..♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:43, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

TWA protected edit requests[edit]

Hi Redrose. I wanted to talk to you about the deluge of bogus protected edit requests you've been so diligently handling. I'm trying to think of a way to cut down that cleanup work for you and others. What's clearly happening is that editors in the game are posting to 'Game' pages, which are protected, rather than to their own, personal Userpace pages for the game. That is a usability mistake on my end, as it shouldn't even be possible, let alone common. In the meantime, I wanted to ask if you have any thoughts on a potential fix? Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 23:15, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

@Ocaasi: I really don't know about a fix. To begin with, all of these requests were landing on diverse pages like these. As you can see, I tagged most of them them {{db-test}}, but if a particular page was recreated three or so times, I redirected it to Wikipedia talk:TWA/Portal - because the root page Wikipedia talk:TWA was itself redirected there. That is why the Feedback page is now attracting the majority. You may have noticed that I sent a note to User talk:Superm401#TWA - protected edit requests. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks[edit]

I would just like to thank you publicly for your help and advice on my recent edits to Princes Risborough railway station.

Being a new user and contributor to Wikipedia is a little daunting, so I appreciate your help.

I was interested to see you are planning to attend this months upcoming Oxford Wikimedia meetup. I am local to Oxford, but am afraid I cannot make it this time round. Are you the organiser of this or just an attendee? I would love to learn more about contributing, so I will do my upmost to come to a future meet-up. (A pint or two just sweetens the deal)

Many thanks, Ed George talk 13:09, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! They began about two years ago, and it was Philafrenzy (talk · contribs) who organised the first two; but he moved to London in late 2012 so I took over the organisation of the Oxford meetup. It's normally third Sunday of each month, and most weekends there is a meetup somewhere in the UK, at varying frequencies. They're normally posted to the top of the watchlist (a notice beginning "Interested in having a chat with fellow Wikipedians? There are forthcoming meetups in: ...") about two or three weeks in advance. There are other ways of finding out about future meetups in other parts of the country. One is by checking the list at User:Redrose64#Wikipedians I have met, or you can visit one or more of the following, and "watch" it:

Then, as events get added, you'll find out through the watchlist of the relevant site. As you noticed, the next Oxford meetup is on 21 September; after that is 19 October. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Just wanted to say thanks for your help at Help talk:Table - it's really appreciated.

Number 57 16:22, 17 September 2014 (UTC)