User talk:SJ Morg

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Astoria Riverfront Trolley[edit]

What do you think about a GAN? Jsayre64 (talk) 02:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

 ! --Another Believer (Talk) 18:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
(Well, it looks like someone's <cough-cough> already excited!) Jsayre64 (talk) 23:41, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Not sure right now. I take the question as a compliment of my original work on this, and I appreciate your recent tweaking to try to make it even better. However, for the next week and a half, I'll need to try hard to avoid Wikipedia editing, because of other commitments during that period (although I'm sure I'll be unable to resist doing some, but only when I have a brief free moment or am too tired to work on anything requiring much concentration, and am not having to respond to anyone else). I realize the nomination might sit for weeks before anyone starts a review, but there's no way to know, and if someone took it up before mid-January, I might not be able to assist at all, if needed. Separately, my last experience with a GAN was frustrating and kind of turned me off GAN involvement. Even before that, I've always been much more interested in improving subpar articles, to go from Stub to Start, or Start to C, or in creating new articles that are C- or B-class from day 1, than in taking any article from B to GA. That said, I'd still be monitoring it if it were a GAN and willing to jump in to help if needed. .... just probably not between now and mid-January. SJ Morg (talk) 00:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
By the way, regarding one of your recent edit summaries: "Assn." isn't a "punctuation error"; it's the common abbreviation for Association. SJ Morg (talk) 01:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the abbreviation change, I knew "Assn." wasn't an error itself, but the citation template was displaying it as "Assn.."; I've seen this happen a lot, but it's easy to fix. And as for GAN, that's fine, I understand. Just let me know on the article's talk page or my talk page as soon as it's a good time to start the nomination, and then I expect that AB and I will handle most problems the reviewer may find if you don't get there first. Jsayre64 (talk) 02:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good. Thanks for clarifying what you meant with the "Assn." thing. I'm surprised I never noticed the double-period template output in this instance; I've occasionally spotted that issue elsewhere when editing, and I changed it when I did, just like you did! SJ Morg (talk) 02:24, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Rheingold (train) / Settebello / DYK[edit]

Thanks for your message about this article. I also think the main body of the article could do with some significant revision. However, and as you've correctly guessed, I don't presently have access to the main printed reference material, particularly the Mertens book, which has been published in several different languages and editions, but not English. In the meantime, I've been creating "start" articles about other TEE trains, on the basis that the foreign language equivalent articles I've been translating have clearly been based upon Mertens' work ... Bahnfrend (talk) 02:11, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm happy to nominate Gottardo as well, if you wish, but it's not as comprehensively inline referenced at the moment. Also, Gotthardo could do with a paragraph or so commenting on the four-system SBB-CFF-FFS RAe TEE II EMU, which, together with the nice photo in the infobox, would be a good basis for a hook. Bahnfrend (talk) 05:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer. I agree with you, and I was already planning to add a paragraph on that to the Gottardo article. I had been intending to do it in the 'next several days' (which intention can turn into weeks), but in light of your kind offer I'll do it this evening (within the next few hours). SJ Morg (talk) 06:07, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
I've added an alternative image to the Gottardo nomination. The alternative may be more appealing to non-rail enthusiasts, because of the greenery. That said, I've always included an image in my DYK nominations, and so far at least, all the images have been published. (Incidentally, I don't claim credit for the posters in some of the TEE articles; each one was already in at least one of the foreign language wikipedia articles.) I note your comments about the reliability of the foreign language articles. Since starting work on this little TEE project, I've found a couple of apparently more reliable online sources here (English) and here (German), although as they are both self published, I can't cite them in an article. I'll also make the effort in the near future to acquire some of the printed sources. As a final observation, there are some great images here and here if you want to indulge in a little nostalgia (I never rode on a TEE, but I saw the Rheingold in Bonn in 1984 - hard to believe it was 29 years ago now). It's a pity the photographer hasn't uploaded the images to commons as well. Bahnfrend (talk) 14:58, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for those links. Considering the amount of detail on the information pages, I agree they're probably more reliable than other enthusiast-generated pages (including WP pages written by railfans in Europe, in some cases). However, they are only about TEEs, not giving pre-TEE or post-TEE history for named trains (at least not much) and, as you noted, we cannot cite them for WP because they are just personal enthusiast pages. However, they'll probably still be helpful in sorting out discrepancies or major gaps in other sources, and in my case they may save me some time in researching via the Cook's Timetable, by leading me to the right year(s) for some change, if I didn't previously know when it occurred. And having them in English helps. SJ Morg (talk) 11:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Settebello (train)[edit]

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Blauer Enzian[edit]

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Cisalpin (train)[edit]

Thanks for your message. I know a bit about copyright. I'm also keen to avoid breaching it. Some (to my eyes somewhat amateur) guidance can be found here, but should be read in conjunction with what the US Supreme Court said in this case. The important point made in the Supreme Court case is that length is not the only issue, and probably wasn't the most important issue in that case. A similar point is made here, in a useful commentary (by specialist intellectual property lawyers based in Florida) about another case. Applying the traditional (and statutory) four factor test referred to in the cases, the quote I've added to the article is an obviously good faith quote, in an encyclopedia article published by a non profit charitable organisation, of a little under two paragraphs of a non fictional work published 32 years ago; it's specific to, and informative about, the author's observations of the subject matter of the article; it's taken from a book nearly 200 pages long; and is unlikely to have any significant negative effect on the value of the copyright because the book is long out of print (and a video or DVD of the TV series has never been available, much to the chagrin of enthusiasts of the series, myself included). Some further comments about the length - the first (part) paragraph really needs to be quoted in full to do justice to the points the author is making in it, and the second (short) paragraph makes a point not made in the first (part) paragraph, namely that taking the train was much nicer than the alternative of flying. Again, all points are informative about, and specific to, the subject matter of the article. So my firm view is that it's a fair use quote. Bahnfrend (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Catalan Talgo[edit]

Chamal TC 17:23, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Gottardo[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 08:07, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar for You![edit]

100px The Chooo-chooo Barnstar of Trains
For your excellent work on trains!! Keep it up! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 11:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! SJ Morg (talk) 11:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
A P.S. to my own post (on my own page!): My latest newly created article was, as you know, about a train that passed through a mountainous part of Switzerland. With that topic fresh in my mind, your user name instantly made me think of the Bond film On Her Majesty's Secret Service (an underrated film, in my opinion, although I'm not referring to its lead actor). I visited the area near the Piz Gloria as a teen-ager, but did not get to see it, as my parents felt the cable-car trip up to the famed restaurant was too expensive. Well, I'm not going to criticize them for that frugality, after they were nice enough to take me to Europe! SJ Morg (talk) 13:24, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Named trains of Europe[edit]

Thank you for the Barnstar, and thank you for reviewing my articles about named trains in Europe. As I have acces to the written sources and can read them as well, I started to complete the TEE trains in English. Mertens' work is the standard work on TEE, written in French and later translated in Italian and German. This book also contains info about the trains before 1957 and in the EuroCity era as far as they had a TEE history. But as you have noticed there are many more sources than Mertens. You asked for some clarification about the EC-index. I've added this index to the table of EuroCity services when I was comparing the list in the Japanese wiki, which had 64 entries, with the EuroCitys listed in order to complete all 64 initial services. The EuroCity list I had, was obviously incomplete as the written sources (Hajt and an annual report in Dutch) mentioned the number of 64 trains but didn't say which (and there isn't an official EuroCity site), and my list had 54 names. The index numbers are based upon the 1987 trainnumbering scheme ordered by trainnumbers. Trainnumber one doesn't exist for ordinary people (as Air Force one), so the first EC train in 1987 was EC 2,3 etc. Because the German numbering scheme is related to bordercrossings, sorting by index will result in a grouping by routes/geography automatically. Numbers can exist more than once (this is Europe) as long as the number isn't used double within the same country. In Europe International Day services have one or two digits, all other trains have three or four, so the night services end up at the end of the list. Exception is the London - Amsterdam "night"service, advertised as one of the night trains but numbered as day service. I hope it is clarified now, but I'am afraid that this explanation is too long/detailed to integrate in the EuroCity article. I'll first finish the TEE articles and pick-up EuroCity issues later on. Greetings Jaap. --JB63 (talk) 21:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Coordinates[edit]

What's going on is that you actually caught me being mildly sloppy - oops. I've been going through National Register of Historic Places listings in Clatsop County, Oregon, validating the coords given one-by-one. On that list, the coords previously shown for Astoria City Hall (old) were off by over half a mile. After making the correction to the list, I simply assumed without checking that the coords in the old city hall's own article were similarly incorrect, and "fixed" them. Clearly my assumption was wrong and I should have proceeded more deliberately. Mea culpa.

In short, the reason I thought I had for editing those coordinates wasn't a reason after all. The change from dms to dec didn't actually accomplish anything - you were right to find that puzzling. I have now reinstated the dms coordinates. — Ipoellet (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Whitehorse trolley[edit]

This makes it the oldest tram ever! ;-) Tuvalkin (talk) 11:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

You are right! I'm glad you noticed that and fixed it. I am really surprised that no one else fixed it in all this time. As for myself, I have not made any edits to that article since that one, and I probably have not even looked at the article since then, or else I would have spotted that earlier error myself. Whitehorse is so out of the way that most streetcar/tram fans don't know about this line, or have forgotten that it exists. SJ Morg (talk) 01:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Nashville Transit Company[edit]

SJ:
I've noticed your interest in urban public transit.
With that in mind I cordially invite to take a peek at my description of the Southern Coach Lines and the Nashville Transit Company –
a section in a chapter, entitled "Growing Up at Greyhound", in my autobiography.
Cheers!
Doc.
DocRushing (talk) 15:18, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't click on links from strangers, and anyway I have relatively very little interest in intercity transportation and in rubber-tired transportation (except trolleybuses or Oregon-related). SJ Morg (talk) 11:35, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

US Bancorp Tower[edit]

i was being polite, and trying not to be pedantic, but you're absolutely wrong....just as one would not say 'the Carnegie Hall'. please let's not continue to war over it and take it to the talk page. --emerson7 04:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

That's your argument? What about the Empire State Building, the Eiffel Tower, the Golden Gate Bridge, etc.? There are countless examples of structures whose names are routinely preceded by "the" when referred to within a complete sentence. After your last revert, I was already planning to start a discussion on the article's talk page to avoid violating WP:3RR, and I have now done so. SJ Morg (talk) 11:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

You may be interested[edit]

In expressing opinion at Wikipedia:BOTREQ#TedderBot_replacement. If enough people comment there, maybe something will finally happen. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:21, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank You[edit]

... for contributing so many great images to this month's Wikipedia Takes Portland campaign (and for including great image descriptions and appropriate categories). I've enjoyed viewing so many great photographs! Much appreciated. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:46, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome, and thanks for the compliment. Since 2010, there are a lot of photos I've taken with Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons in mind but have not, so far, gotten around to uploading. The Wikipedia Takes Portland campaign has provided some helpful motivation. My preference for creating file names that are at least briefly descriptive and distinguish photos from one another, and for including links and longer descriptions on the file pages, means that it takes me much longer to upload photos than some other major contributors, such as you. Sometimes, I wonder whether I should be less of a perfectionist about it, because there's definitely a significant trade-off, but for now, I think I'll keep doing the same – especially since the file names cannot be changed later (not really; they'd have to be erred for a rename request to be justified). As you may have noticed from the photo dates, some of these – such as the stained-glass windows of the First Congregational Church – have been waiting for me to prepare for uploading (sort, research, choose, clean up [of digital noise, etc], caption) for a year or two. I took some nice interior shots of the U.S. National Bank Building in downtown Portland in December 2011, at which time there were no interior pictures of that building on Commons, but I've still never uploaded any of those. It became much less urgent after you uploaded many good photos of it during WLM 2012 – and then several more for WLM 2013 – another illustration of the fact that both your method, of uploading many, many photos but with few or no details (in file descriptions or cats) and my method have advantages, and I don't feel that either method is necessarily best. It's a pity the United States National Bank Building article is so (very) short, making it impractical to use those nice photos on Wikipedia, but I don't think I'll be expanding it anytime soon; too much else to do, in areas that interest me more. Thanks again, including for the great photos that you have uploaded this month. SJ Morg (talk) 02:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
I, too, have hundreds (probably thousands) of photos that I have yet to upload to Commons. I always have my camera on me, and I am always snapping photographs around town. My method is far from perfect, but I enjoy taking and uploading the photographs in a way that works for me. Sometimes something is better than nothing, and sometimes I should strive for quality over quantity... I very much appreciate that your file names and descriptions are detailed (Visitor7 does a great job at this as well). Your process is just not one I have time to replicate. This year's Wiki Takes Portland campaign has been successful and I have enjoyed viewing user' contributions. Thanks again for your work! I am looking forward to the upcoming editathons. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:04, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
P.S. - Your pictures of the US National Bank Building are stunning! --Another Believer (Talk) 15:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! SJ Morg (talk) 05:34, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Povey Brothers[edit]

Nice! Thanks! Valfontis (talk) 16:38, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure. Did you also see these recent uploads I made? A problem is that I have not been able to determine whether all of the stained-glass windows in the First Congregational Church are by Povey or only some, and that's why I didn't mention Povey in the descriptions on their file pages, and why I haven't yet added one of those photos to the Povey Brothers Studio article. SJ Morg (talk) 05:41, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
This First Cong? They're Povey. Yay! Nice photos. All I have is a crappy photo I took of a restored residential Povey in a shop window in Albany. Valfontis (talk) 16:56, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
The problem is, that reference says the Povey windows were "commissioned in 1906", but this church was completed in 1895. Undoubtedly, it had some stained-glass windows when newly completed. Were those non-Povey windows? I have no idea, and the NRHP nomination form doesn't shed any light; it doesn't even mention Povey windows! SJ Morg (talk) 17:05, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Photographer Barnstar.png The Photographer's Barnstar
For your many quality contributions to this year's Wikipedia Takes Portland campaign. We should all be proud of the new photographs uploaded, along with the NRHP articles that were created and updated in the process. Thank you! Another Believer (Talk) 15:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. It's good that you also gave barnstars to Visitor7 and Ipoellet. I'm amazed at the sheer number of new NRHP-related photos uploaded this month by Visitor7 alone. I see that Ipoellet's uploads were mostly of properties outside the greater Portland area, which is why they are not noted on the Wikipedia Takes Portland page, but that makes them even more helpful, since they are much more impractical for Portland-area residents such us to photograph. And of course I appreciate your photo uploads, too, along with your setting up (and publicizing) the Wikipedia Takes Portland page, without which I would have made far fewer photo uploads this month. SJ Morg (talk) 20:14, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. This was a very successful campaign, indeed! --Another Believer (Talk) 21:46, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Takes Portland[edit]

Hi, SJ. Thanks for the note on my talk page. Yes, the Wikipedia Takes Portland category has to be added manually. I am not sure if Ipoellet and Visitor7 know this or not, but I spent a lot of time adding the categories manually. It was my choice to do this. I have tried to explain to photographers that they can easily add categories when they are mass uploading images at Commons (including date categories like "2013 in Portland, Oregon" and "September 2013 in Oregon", etc.), but there is nothing I can really do beyond offering the suggestion. I try to keep a close eye on Visitor7's uploads, mostly because I am very much a fan of his work and appreciate his contributions. I noticed Ipoellet's many photographs, both within and outside of Portland, and tried to add both of their Portland area photos to the Wikipedia Takes Portland category. If you happen to come across their most recent photos, or ones I might have missed, please feel free to add them to the category. Thanks again! --Another Believer (Talk) 14:54, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and as for the people who signed up to participate, I have no idea. I didn't think anything of it--I just assume sometimes people come by and indicate interest but then fail to act. I am just always glad when local people sign their name to something to that I/someone can send them an invitation to WikiProject Oregon and other local campaigns/events/meetups. --Another Believer (Talk) 15:09, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Update: I went ahead and categorized V7's latest images (WTP 2013 + September 2013 in Oregon). This puts the campaign at more than 400 images! If you have a chance to look at Ipoellet's images, that would be a huge help. Otherwise, I will try to get to it later. Thank you much. --Another Believer (Talk) 15:31, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I went back through Ipoellet's uploads and added the WTP 2013 cat where applicable, but there were only seven cases, fewer than I had expected. But as I said on your talk page, he uploaded several good non-Portland-area photos during September. Speaking of that, I discovered at the last minute that some of my 2012 Astoria photos, ones I had tentatively concluded months ago were apparently not NRHP-relevant, in fact show contributing resources in the Shively-McClure Historic District. So, I uploaded some of those in the final hours (Hawaiian Standard Time!) of the WLM 2013 campaign. Of course, I couldn't put those in the Wikipedia Takes Portland 2013 category, but the total for that stands at an impressive 414! I'm guessing that well over half of those were by Visitor7, since my own WTP uploads totalled "only" 91. SJ Morg (talk) 11:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
For images outside the PDX metro area that were uploaded, I tried to add the WLM 2013 template, but not the WTP 2013 category. That way they still counted to the national campaign but not the local campaign. I am sure our efforts did not reach every single image, but the vast majority. Glad you were able to upload a few more at the last minute! --Another Believer (Talk) 21:24, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Edit-athon![edit]

Portland Art Museum Mark Building - Oregon.JPG WIKI LOVES LIBRARIES 2013!
You're invited to attend the upcoming "Wiki Loves Libraries" edit-athon. The event will be held from 1–4pm on Sunday, October 13, 2013 at the Portland Art Museum's Crumpacker Family Library, located on the second floor of the Museum's Mark Building (formerly the Masonic Temple). The edit-athon will focus on the local arts community (but you can work on other topics as well!). It will also kick off the Oregon Arts Project, an on-wiki initiative to improve coverage of the arts in Oregon. Details and signup here!

Hope to see you there! --Another Believer (Talk) 16:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: John Jacob Astor Hotel[edit]

Thanks for the heads up! Great job with expanding the article. Unfortunately, I do not have any additional photos to upload. I will definitely need to go on another photo tour next time I am in Astoria. BTW, you can always add additional info to refs using the following format: (ref tag){Cite web|BLAH} Note: Here is where I add a note.(/ref) In English, you can add a note between the citation template and the closing reference tag. That way, you can still use citation templates for consistency. Thanks again for your work on the article! --Another Believer (Talk) 15:17, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

And yes, access to the Oregonian archves via MCL is a wonderful resource! --Another Believer (Talk) 15:19, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for John Jacob Astor Hotel[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Excellent work, if you expand/create any more can you add it to List of hotels in the United States? Cheers!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:04, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't foresee any major expansions or creations of hotel articles in the near future, but I'll keep the list in mind. SJ Morg (talk) 18:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

An Award for you![edit]

Flag of Oregon Buildings.png Oregon Architectural Award of Excellence
For your hard work into improving Oregonian architectural articles, especially Hotel Astoria. Keep up the good work! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:13, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! SJ Morg (talk) 18:27, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Meetup in Vancouver, WA[edit]

Vancouver WA library with sign.jpg WIKI LOVES LIBRARIES 2013!
You are invited to attend the upcoming "Wiki Loves Libraries" edit-athon. The event will be held from 2:30–4:30pm on Sunday, November 17, 2013 at the Vancouver Community Library (901 C Street) in Vancouver, Washington. The edit-athon will focus on creating and expanding articles related to Vancouver and Clark County. Details and signup here!

--Another Believer (Talk) 16:33, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Weather Machine[edit]

Since this page is no longer being used (other than to redirect), should the sculpture article be moved to this article title? Or, should Weather Machine be made into a disambiguation page, explaining it could be weather modifications, the band or the sculpture? I do not mind if the sculpture article is moved or not, but I think normally the parenthetical disambiguator is not preferred if there are not multiple articles with the same main title. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

If it were up to me, I'd say it should be moved, and I almost left you a message suggesting that, after I updated that old redirect page this morning! A separate disambiguation page is not warranted (the capital M means it's not sufficiently related to the article "Weather modification" and really shouldn't have been created at all, prior to the sculpture article; I left the "Weather machine" redirect unchanged). And if someone later creates an article on the band, putting a hatnote on top of both articles would suffice. So, I endorse moving it, but neither you nor I can do that, because it requires an administrator, since the redirect page has more than one edit in its history (even before I changed it; otherwise, I might have just moved the article myself). If you agree, I suggest you leave a request for such a move with an administrator you know. Personally, I don't believe a discussion is needed in this case. SJ Morg (talk) 17:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


Dyk25CE.svg The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
An overdue but well-deserved medal for your first 25 DYK creations, mostly on the subject of public transport in Oregon and around the world. Thanks for helping build a great encyclopedia! Yoninah (talk) 01:28, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! SJ Morg (talk) 09:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Winter Storm[edit]

Thanks for adding a few photos from the winter storm. I liked seeing Union Station covered in white snow. Not sure what next month's photo campaigns will be yet. Let me know if you have any ideas! --Another Believer (Talk) 19:07, 20 February 2014 (UTC)