|In order to keep a conversation together, rather than spread over multiple talk pages, if you leave me a message here, I will respond here. I will also always ping you along with my responses.|
- 1 Which sources are reliable music sources?
- 2 Eminem albums
- 3 Trap
- 4 Capital Steez
- 5 Huch McDonald
- 6 Young Thug's Label
- 7 Discog formatting
- 8 Regarding removing content of Tinashe's article
- 9 US marijuana laws map
- 10 BISD
- 11 Talkback
- 12 Pu$$y song edit
- 13 Waves - Joey Badass
- 14 Your GA nomination of Sanctified (song)
Which sources are reliable music sources?
Hey, I recently edited the Lupe Fiasco article. I was wondering, as Rapgenius is not a reliable source, would other lyric or music websites fall under this category as well(such as azlyrics, whosampled, etc.)? I just want to know before I make edits in the future so I don't add any bad sources. Thanks, and happy fourth. Kinfoll77 (talk) 17:49, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
- @Kinfoll77: Lyric websites such as those are overall not considered reliable sources as most of them are user-generated and are considered unreliable. A good place to discover what are considered reliable sources for music articles would be WP:ALBUM/SOURCES. STATic message me! 07:24, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
I just finished reviewing Recovery, and will say its article is currently an absolute disaster which led to its 3rd unsuccessful GAN. Easily the longest review I've ever written so far (see Talk:Recovery (Eminem album)/GA3 for details). You told me back in May when I failed the GAN for MMLP2 that it was "1000% better" than Shady's other FGAN albums. I took some time to look them over, and you definitely weren't kidding. Even though the GAN for MMLP2 was premature, its article was unquestionably worlds ahead of the ones for Recovery and Encore when I reviewed it and still is today. Encore and The Eminem Show have multiple completely uncited sections (major red flag). I promise you we will get his album articles up to GA (if not FA) at some point, but it'll take some considerable work. I'll see what I can do on my own, hit me up if you need a reviewer.
- @SNUGGUMS: Hey man, I do not have any idea why that user decided to randomly show up and nominate it, it is nowhere close to GA status. Yeah can you tell that MMLP2 is the one I have significantly contributed too? Haha. The other ones are just in such poor condition, I do not even have them all watchlisted, yet I own the physical copy of all but Encore. I'll let you know once I take MMLP2 to GAN again. STATic message me! 17:07, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
- It doesn't at all surprise me that you've worked your ass off on it more than any of the others. Come to think of it, I couldn't find any contributions within the last several months from the user who nominated Recovery. Did he even work on the article at all proud to that? I haven't looked through the entire history, so can't say for myself just yet. I look forward to when MMLP2 gets renominated- it isn't ready just yet but is definitely better now. You deserve the GA for it, just am not sure when that will be. SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 19:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Could you please stop making uncited changes to the Trap music page, without backing up your reasons for doing do. The changes to the stylistic origins section have been agreed by numerous posters. You have repeatedly vandalised the Trap music page with uncited edits and when I have tried to have a discussion with you about it, which you have merely defined as trolling. Anymore uncited edits and I will request that the page is locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 06:54, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
- I have not added content, so I have made no uncited changes, that would be you. You must not know who references work since you never use them, see WP:CITE, WP:RS and WP:OR. Your changes have not been agreed to and there is no consensus for your change. Your personal attack filled message was removed of course. Stop hopping around IP address and just leave the page alone if you do not get consensus for your change. For your information, I already requested protection, so you will not get to vandalize the page anymore. STATic message me! 17:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I am actually happy with the page as it stands. So I will not be making any edits, it is you who dislikes the references to Dubstep and Grime as the origins of the new EDM Trap sound. I havent been hopping around IPs and I have provided clear references showing the influence of the two aforementioned genres on early EDM Trap. There is consensus for these changes, as numerous other posters have accepted EDM Trap is a stylistic offshoot of UK Bass genres. The only outstanding point of contention is whether cultural origins are the US and UK. You will notice I cited a source which references the UK Trap scene, but I am waiting for others to see and agree to it, before I make any additional changes.
I have not launched any personal attacks, but I have tried to reach out to you and show you links between EDM Trap and its British Forbears Grime and Dubstep. I actually am a big Hip Hop fan from back in the day (Africa Bambaataa till now), but I would like to show the musical contribution of the tiny British largely black community to what is generally refered to as EDM Trap. If you were from Frisco and everyone claimed 'Hyphy' calling it another name, wouldnt you wish to show what its true origins were?
Have a listen to these tracks
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mznv4ACjkzc&feature=kp 2004 signature Trumpets/horns/snares that apparently signify the modern Trap Sound
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2wYVjHlis&feature=kp 2005
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM2YLUc3c0Q 2006
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_dvT8dttyQ 2006
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk4qfri3X8U&feature=kp 2008
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oh87toN2CY 2006 sounds like drill to me, but hit in 2006
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URZuZyDy07Y 2006 Asap Rocky Palace anyone?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLkLHY2LuQ 2001 Grime in its rawest form, the beginning!! Poor kids in projects MCing to pirate radio
Even if you choose to ignore the sources I have provided, can you honestly say that these tunes are not a stylistic influence on both Drill and EDM trap genres?
Hello, I have observed the edit wars between 22.214.171.124 and yourself. The only individual who seems to dispute the changes is you.
User 126.96.36.199 did provide a source showing the links between dubstep and trap (see below)
The LA weekly also noted the links between the newer electronic form of Trap and its UK Bass progenitor Dubstep http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2012/10/trap_music_edm_uz_baauer_ugk.php?page=2 stating re Trap "You could basically call it the next phase of dubstep. It plays at a club-ready 140 bpm while retaining dubstep's craze-inducing drops. (That said, eschewing the over-hyped and much-disparaged name "dubstep" is definitely a good PR move.)"
user 188.8.131.52 also provides a source showing the links between crunk (southern hip hop) and UK Grime with the following source
And finally similiarities between the intense sound of Crunk and Grime have been noted before with Lil Jon in 2004 a well known Crunk artist stating in the BBC with regards to Grime Artist Dizze Rascal "“I like Dizzee,” Lil Jon said recently, joining the Dylan Mills fan club, which also includes Andre 3000. “Even if I don’t know what the f**k he be saying.”" and even as far back as 2004 from when this article is dated American media outlets were noted for paying attention to this UK Bass Genre noting "Having all but ignored UK urban music for years, even American artists and magazines like XXL are opening their ears to the cockney accents spitting their stories over chaotic keys and speaker-smashing bass" http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A3299204
Even prompting another user to remark
After reading these sources about grime/crunk artists collabing before the EDM trap boom I'd be for keeping grime as a stylistic origin. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 11:38, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
It very much looks like you have been able to set the agenda as an established user, above all other users with regards to the trap music page. I dont want to get involved, but I think you should revaluate your position and revert your recent change and wait until other users to show their concerns with the stylistic origins section of the trap music wikipedia page.
I for one dont think user 184.108.40.206 changes can be viewed as original research as he has a good source and other users back the changes made.
After a false report by Hip Hop XD (I believe), alot of people started posting his death as Jamal Dewar however, it's a huge debate whether his name is Jamal or Courtney, but as no obituaries exist for a "Jamal Dewar" and Courtney Dewar is the only person from the New York area that I can find. There's several pictures on the internet talking about him with a gravestone labeled, "Courtney Dewar". Even if his name is Jamal, shouldn't we put a note somewhere that it's disputed amongst reports whether his name is Courtney or Jamal. RyanTheBackpacker (talk) 17:30, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
- The name used by all reliable sources was Jamal Dewar. Using obituaries as sources is original research. Reliable sources would need to be provided for Courtney Dewar to be mentioned at all. STATic message me! 15:48, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
- http://www.thefader.com/2013/11/26/capital-steez-king-capital/ If this article is previously used as a source couldn't we use it again?RyanTheBackpacker (talk) 17:30, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Young Thug's Label
I had recently added Cash Money Records to Young Thugs record labels because I seen him say it in a video that he signed to cash money and mtv.com also confirmed the signing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Badassgypsy01 (talk • contribs)
- He can say whatever he wants, he is contracted to 1017/Asylum Records/Atlantic Records and they are who release his records, not Cash Money. STATic message me! 23:06, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians/Article_guidelines#Discography_section doesn't say anything about not separating collaborations from solo releases. And Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(lists_of_works)#Discographies states: The exact format chosen will depend on the discography and the amount of verifiable information available, which may vary greatly between musical acts. In all cases, the format should follow from what's best for the article, and not vice versa. And of the two GAs you pointed to, Eminem just omits his D12 collaborations altogether, just as the Wu-Tang members' articles omit the group releases. Does that mean the group/collaboration projects should be omitted? Not necessarily.
Some variations in the GAs (just browsing A-E): Nadia Ali, Anggun, Rodney Atkins, Australian Crawl, Emilie Autumn, Big Bang, Clint Black, Billy Talent, Brooks & Dunn, Eva Cassidy, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Death Cab for Cutie, Bruce Dickinson, Joe Diffie, Doro, Eazy-E, Evermore - all of these are artists with dedicated discography articles that separate the releases in the main article by category. Note that many of these also include EPs, compilations, live albums, singles, etc, while many other articles, like Eminem, Beyonce or indeed all of the individual Wu-Tang members exclude major collaborative studio albums. There are obviously no hard and fast rules to follow here. In fact, browse through those articles and you'll find infinite and seemingly arbitrary variations in the formatting of the discogs. So it's not a question of the iron application of policy, it's a question of what's appropriate for this particular artrist's article.
I would propose something like this for Method Man, Ghostface, Raekwon, etc.
- Tical (1994)
- Tical 2000: Judgement Day (1998)
- Tical 0: The Prequel (2004)
- 4:21... The Day After (2006)
- Crystal Meth (TBA)
- Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) (1993)
- Wu-Tang Forever (1997)
- The W (2000)
- Iron Flag (2001)
- 8 Diagrams (2007)
- A Better Tomorrow (2014)
It makes sense to separate solo albums from collaborations (because this article is about the solo artist), and it makes sense to isolate longstanding group projects with multiple releases from one-off collaborations. It makes the discography, and the overall shape of his career, far clearer, which is the point.
- @Wetdogmeat: Eminem's article does include D12 releases. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians/Article_guidelines#Discography_section says that the section should include a simple list of the artists "major works". There is no reason they should be separated by categorization. As for all the articles you mentioned, they were probably promoted many years ago I am guessing, while the high profile ones Eminem/Beyonce follow the guideline. GA reviewers do not search the Wikiprojects to make sure layout is correct, if you would have ever taken an article to GA status you would know the reviewers are more concerned about spelling, grammar and major policies, rather than making sure everything follows the genre specific guidelines. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians/Article_guidelines#Discography_section is the guideline that is followed in all high profile articles such as Kanye West, Lil Wayne, Jay-Z, Eminem, as it should be in all articles since it is the WikiProjects guideline. The format you suggested is quite messy in my opinion, I much rather prefer the current consensus of the community which is at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians/Article_guidelines#Discography_section, a simple chronological list of their major works works better then anything else. Categorizations should be left for the discography article, which makes complete sense. As for including the Wu-Tang releases, I also wondered about this awhile back, however I think it makes much more sense to just include a link to Wu-Tang Clan discography to avoide listing them in every single members articles. STATic message me! 23:21, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Regarding removing content of Tinashe's article
Hi. I happened to remove the "Singles" content on Tinashe's page because those songs don't represent her actual single she put out for Radio. The only single she has released was "Vulnerable" (which was a buzz single) and "2 On" being her first commercial single sent to radio by her label RCA Records.
- @51stash: That is irrelevant. We do not only list radio singles in any musicians article, why would we on hers? STATic message me! 23:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
US marijuana laws map
I noticed that you were the last person to update this image: If you could, please update New York on the map as it now allows medical marijuana. I would, but I'm not sure how to do it. Thanks in advance. --WikiTryHardDieHard (talk) 21:48, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
- @WikiTryHardDieHard: I do not know how to either, I just reverted an editor that disruptively changed the colors of the map. STATic message me! 23:23, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
My source for the Before I Self Destruct album is directly from the album cover. The labels that this album were released under are Shady Records, Aftermath Entertainment, G-Unit Records and Violator Management. The booklet also names Sha Money XL as an associate producer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheXPROMan (talk • contribs) 23:29, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
- @TheXPROMan: Just because the logo is there, does not mean they released the record. Management labels do not release albums and they are never listed in Wikipedia or elsewhere. STATic message me! 23:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Pu$$y song edit
- @Aichik: What are you talking about? The article falsly stated that the song featured this long list of rappers, when it does not. STATic message me! 20:26, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Waves - Joey Badass
- @RyanTheBackpacker: Not necessarily. Wikipedia has a notability guideline for songs at WP:NSONGS. Per that guideline, Waves would not be notable enough for its own article. "Unorthodox" was significantly covered by reliable sources, while waves was not really at all. STATic message me! 20:28, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Sanctified (song)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Sanctified (song) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of DepressedPer -- DepressedPer (talk) 06:21, 11 July 2014 (UTC)