User talk:Saukkomies

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Otter in winter.jpg

< User:Saukkomies

Warning: I always edit in good faith, therefore do not revert any of my edits without first talking to me about it. I will consider any revert of my editing without attempting to establish a dialogue with me to be an act of hostile aggression, and the action will be immediately reported.


Welcome to My Talk Page[edit]

Feel free to leave a comment here.

Dianthus alpinus photo[edit]

Thanks for the compliments on the photo and letting me know where it's being used. Small world indeed :) Hope all is well --IvanTortuga (talk) 05:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Re:User talk:Baseball1015[edit]

In regards to this edit, please see WP:BLANKING. --The New Mikemoral ♪♫ 01:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that information. I didn't know about that policy, but now that I think about it, I can see the wisdom in it. I am now wiser and will not restore warnings from other users' talk pages that they've deleted, even though their doing so is against the rules. Thanks for the instruction and the help in dealing with that vandalism against one of the article's talk page that I had done so much work on. --Saukkomies talk 05:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

That %^$@#%^ map![edit]

I was going to tag the file for deletion but it had already been tagged and was kept. I looked at the old deletion request file Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Old Europe.png for the dratted thing and the administrator who ruled on it cited some commons rules which are different from Wikipedia rules. So somewhere in Wikipedia there must be a forum to debate the accuracy and usability and to prohibit use of false info, else we'd have all sorts of blatantly false photos springing up. If you find the forum let me know please. Trilobitealive (talk) 05:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the way they organize info, even a successful request to delete from Wikipedia wouldn't get rid of it from Wikimedia.Trilobitealive (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is torqued off about that dang map. I know where it came from, too, well generally... It's most likely from someone who is a devoted cult follower of Marija Gimbutas, and who is using her work as the gospel truth about Neolithic history, which, well, appears to get some people in trouble about knowing what is real and what is not, it seems. At any rate, it's one of my pet peeves to see incorrectly made maps published as factual. grrrrr..... --Saukkomies talk 07:46, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Marija Gimbutas eh? Well as a personal aside I once decided that I could pull prehistory out of my arse about as well as she and all her disciples so I wrote a novel about a fictional late neolithic/early bronze age european tribe. At least I didn't try to pretend it to be the product of research or channeling dead pagans. Trilobitealive (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Economy of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture[edit]

I was looking at your new comprehensive and well written article. I feel that it qualifies for WP:DYK and will be nominating it NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 05:59, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'm speechless. :) --Saukkomies talk 07:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
It was your titanic effort also!CristianChirita (talk) 11:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Cristian, but I could not have done it without your contributions. --Saukkomies talk 14:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Your edits on svwiki[edit]

Hi, You have put the template {{dubious}} in some articles on svwiki. It doesn’t work in Swedish and have now been removed. The correct template in Swedish is {{Ifrågasatt uppgift}}. You may put it back only if you leave a comment on the discussion page and it is ok to do that in English. -- Rex Sueciæ 06:05, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for that information. I didn't know about that policy, but now that I think about it, I can see the wisdom in it. I am now wiser and will not restore warnings from other users' talk pages that they've deleted, even though their doing so is against the rules. Thanks for the instruction and the help in dealing with that vandalism against one of the article's talk page that I had done so much work on. --Saukkomies talk 05:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay. It is now 02:40 AM my time, obviously I need to go to bed, since I have no idea how I managed to copy and paste a previous post into a comment here. My apologies. At any rate, I was just wanting to say how I apologize for any ruffled feathers I may have cause by including that "dubious" tag - I was trying to go through all of the articles everywhere that have used it to try to alert people that it is in error. I will follow your advice, Rex, and go take care of it - but in the morning when I'm more alert. Thanks for the comment about it here. --Saukkomies talk 07:43, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Old Europe.png[edit]

Thank you for pointing out that the map is inaccurate. I have moved it to talk and commented there. I think the best way to solve that is to request its deletion at commons. Do you know any accurate map hosted by commons or that will work as a substitute? Best Skäpperöd (talk) 07:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, Skäpperöd. I welcome the help in getting rid of a map that contains false data. I do know of a number of maps from the Neolithic European period, but if you could tell me what exactly you're needing it for (what you're trying to illustrate with it), that would help me in giving a suggestion. --Saukkomies talk 07:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Of course, heh heh, you could do like I often do, and make your own map.... :) I use Paint to do this usually. Here are a couple of recent examples of my work:
Cucuteni Trypillian extent.png
Bilche Zolote map.JPG
--Saukkomies talk 07:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'd appreciate it if you look at the article and see if any map is available that fits, not just as a replacement of the one that is flawed. I guess I won't draw one myself... And leave me a note whenever you start the deletion request.

As an aside, the {{reflist}} and <references /> templates are for the most part redundant, you only need to put in one of them. I like the reflist template more because it has some extra parameters to add. I reformatted some of your articles accordingly - great work! Best Skäpperöd (talk) 07:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Cucuteni culture articles[edit]

Long-story-short: impressive job! I took the liberty and cleaned up the template. I am going to start by giving a few suggestions: first of all, please replace the map with something prettyer (I would suggest downloading File:BlankEurope.png and altering it accordingly; secondly, you should definitely check out Wikipedia:Did you know/Nomination and nominate some of your work; thirdly, I have placed a few citation needed tags (the articles look ok, but as a rule of thumb, each paragraph , and each number (year, amount, etc) should have a referece should have one reference; fourthly, you may want to check out Wikipedia:Good Articles - the articles still need some work (polishing and references) but they are getting close; lastly:

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
for all your work on the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture and the dozen of its subarticles. Keep it going! Nergaal (talk) 09:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your help and advice Nergaal! And, I am quite surprised to receive a Barnstar! It's my very first. Thank you for that. :)
I plan on doing all that you mentioned to these articles. The map does have a high priority - I created it because I couldn't find anything that was available that did the job to my satisfaction, but I did it in a hurry, and it looks that way. SO, yeah, it definitely needs to be "prettier"! LOL!
The advice about citing the work is critical, too. To tell the truth, much of the material that is in the articles was contributed by other editors, and I just rewrote and reworked it (although, to be honest, much of it is also my own work). Some of the contributions from others was uncited, and I need to now go and try to find where they got their facts from and source them. Oy! Lots of work still to do! But I feel like this whole project has attained a certain level of progress, and your recognition of that is greatly appreciated. Thanks again! --Saukkomies talk 15:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
My honest opinion is that you can put all of this together into a nice topic and then nominate it at wp:Good Topics. But for now, take my advice and go for wp:DYK, and slowly pick an article at a time and submit it at wp:Good Article Nominations. Good Luck! Nergaal (talk) 19:16, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Economy of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture[edit]

Updated DYK query On January 25, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Economy of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 18:00, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for this! I had no idea it was there. Woo hoo! --Saukkomies talk 22:39, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

A message for Materialscientist[edit]

This is a message I left on Materialscientist's talk page, but I wanted to copy it here since it basically defines a lot of what I've been doing the past few months in Wikipedia. Here's the message:

Thanks for the DYK nomination! Thanks so much Materialscientist for sponsoring the Economy of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture article I wrote for DYK inclusion on 25 January 2010. It meant a lot to me - I have slaved on that project for months, and I finally am bringing them up to where they are presentable, and this recognition is deeply appreciated. When I first stumbled on the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture article last October, it was a very sorry mess. Here, if you want, you can compare the old version dated 29 October 2009 to today's version. I had not really done much editing in Wikipedia - just a bit of fixing typo errors here and there - but I stumbled on this article while trying to track down the roots of where the Ancient Mycenaean civilization came from. For some reason this article called to me. I didn't know jack about the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture before that day, but it just reached out and grabbed my attention so strongly I couldn't resist. In a way, it was a perfect article for a beginner editor like me to work on - there was only one other editor involved with it, and he was a native Romanian speaker who was having trouble writing in English (as you can tell if you look at that older version), and welcomed my help. It allowed me to dig in and edit away to my heart's content without worrying about a bunch of hyper-critical UberEditors looking over my shoulder and undoing my mistakes - which I made plenty of. Instead, I figured out how to undo them myself. And it was a BIG article, so it really took up my best efforts for a long time. It still does - I'm nowhere near finished with this yet. These past months I feel as if I've come through a similar experience to learning a new highly-technical job on the seat of my pants. A certain point finally came when I screwed up enough courage to finally bite the bullet and just whack away at that article - getting rid of stuff that didn't belong, creating new stuff on my own, and then the ultimate decision to subdivide it into smaller related articles. At that point I feel like I was attending a birth of a new baby - the labor pains went on for about a week, and then I suddenly was the proud father of a dozen new sub-articles, one of which just today was featured on the DYK thanks to you. This whole process has been a fantastic experience for me. Thanks for your part you played in this. --Saukkomies talk 06:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Your article was already viewed 6500 times and tomorrow we'll get an updated count. This is rather high for a "non-lead" (not pictured) DYK hook. Congratulations. Good article and elegant hook. Materialscientist (talk) 06:22, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Wow. So, I'm still new - what is a "hook"? --Saukkomies talk 07:19, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Greg Epstein.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading File:Greg Epstein.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

  1. Go to :File:Greg Epstein.jpg|the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
  2. On File talk:Greg Epstein.jpg|the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

Please note that Wikipedia very rarely accepts non-free imagery of living people for purposes of depiction. See [[Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy]] #3. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 15:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought that because this photo of him was used on a book jacket that he wrote, that it would fall under fair use as an "identification" of him as an author. I'll make a note of that in the fair use disputed link. --Saukkomies talk 00:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
This has been fixed - I just got permission from Greg Epstein's publisher to use the photo. See the File talk:Greg Epstein.jpg for further details. --Saukkomies talk 16:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
Well, just a note to sort of bring some closure on this subject. After getting permission from Epstein's publisher to use the photo, Hammersoft let me know that I needed to actually have this permission sent in a specific form that included precise language in which the owner of the copyright surrendered all control of the work in order for it to be included in WikiCommons, to be used by anyone for any reason. So I sent another request to Epstein's publisher, including the form for him to fill out, and never heard back, which isn't too surprising. So, after a while, the time limit expired on the deletion of the photo, and it was deleted from WikiCommons. This whole thing has been a big lesson to me - next time I'll be certain to send that form first before uploading a non-fair-use image. Basically, another example of CYA. Here's the page that gives details about how to request permission: Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission --Saukkomies talk 15:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
More closure: I removed the link brackets to the photo file that was removed, as well as the warning tag, since the file no longer exists. --Saukkomies talk 15:19, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

user boxes[edit]

Saukkomies, I noted that (other than myself removing non-free images) you're the only one that's worked on User:Mythology, and that editor has never edited anything. Did you create that account in order to create a userbox template for Mythology? If so, that's now how we create userbox templates. I think you should look at User:UBX. May I suggest we move the page User:Mythology to User:UBX/Mythology and delete User:Mythology? --Hammersoft (talk) 16:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that - I still am fairly new at this whole thing. Please feel free to go ahead and do what you suggested. --Saukkomies talk 00:40, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
  • No worries. I've done the move, and made the corrects to the places that referenced User:Mythology. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Just curious[edit]

I saw from your bio that you live on the UP. Just curious roughly how much snow is on the ground there right now? How much snow does your area normally get in a winter? --Hammersoft (talk) 17:45, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I live in the Keweenaw Peninsula, which is the bit of land that pokes up from the southern shore of Lake Superior, thus, it's the "U.P. of the U.P." As it sticks out into the middle of Lake Superior, you can easily imagine it gets a LOT of Lake-effect snow. In fact, we vye with the Syracuse, N.Y. region as having the highest amount of snowfall per year on average for any settled area in the U.S. (there are, of course, mountain peaks that get more snow, but nobody lives there). We average between 250 - 300 inches of snow a year (635-760 cm). Right now the snow is as deep as it can get here. If it gets deeper, it packs itself down, so it tends to level off at a certain height and stay there, even though the snow just keeps a-falling. This makes it at about 2.5 to 3 feet deep in most places. It can get deeper though, due to blowing drifts, and when it gets shoveled off of driveways and highways, it packs up very high - in some places it's well over 10 feet deep next to roads and driveways. In the late Fall some people get ready for it by building little ramps from their porch out to the driveway, so they don't have to be living in a tunnel.
The worst part of it for us is taking the garbage out. We don't shovel the front of our house, since the driveway is in the back and goes to the street from there, which is all plowed. But the garbage men won't pick up the garbage behind the house, only along the front street side. So, on garbage day, we load the bags of garbage into the car and then DRIVE the garbage around the block to the front of the house, where we drop it off at the curb. Or, rather, we drop it off next to the 10-foot bank of packed-down solid snow on the side of the road, left behind by the snowplows. That's why we don't shovel the front... Andyes, I hate the snow. But, when the summer comes, this place is paradise. Except for the bugs.
So, do you live in snow country?--Saukkomies talk 19:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the long reply :) The ramps from the porches to the driveway fascinate me. Not sure I can visualize that. I have lived in some very snowy regions before, but not like what you're describing. I do remember visiting the Seattle area and skiing up there back in the 90s during a winter when the upper elevations experienced 50+ feet of snow. Kind of wild seeing from the Interstate gas stations/convenience stores as holes in the snowscape. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:23, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Ukrainian naming standards[edit]


Sorry if my relies have been a bit short and curt, I have been fighting with conjuntivitis for the last couple of weeks, it was in one eye then moved to the other so I havent been able to spend much time at the computer.

You have done a marvellous job so far and I hope that I will be able to give you more help at the end of the week oncve I am fully cured

I can see again now but still cannot focus very well in one eye - hoping that will be fixed in a couple of days though.

I am sorry once again, I know you probably deserved a more friendly response on the Ukr portal but as I said it has been difficult to look at the monitor for more than twenty minutes or so a day...

I was over in your neck of the woods for the new year, what a cold place !! I did not understand how cold new york state could be in winter - the wind was terrible where I was and I got stuck in the panic at the airport over the student that "nipped back to kiss his girlfriend"

I really enjoyed the open space though and was nice to see a bald eagle in the wild only 30 feet away

hope to speak to you more over the next couple of days as my eyes get better..


Chaosdruid (talk) 16:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi - i have answered again on the discussion page in case you missed it lol Chaosdruid (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Stryi River and others needing assessment[edit]

As it looks like we are the only active at the moment could you possibly give the article Stryi River an assessment plz (I cannot as I created and did lots of work on it so am disallowed from rating)

There are also others that are in a similar situation - perhaps we could go through some of them ? (and update any collections of data that need it)

I know that you are a meticulous person and good on research so i am thinking this would be a good task for you and I to do

Chaosdruid (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This sounds great! I've been looking for someone who would be interested in working with me on some projects, so I would love to help. I'll give it a look-see. As I understand, I'll be maybe tweaking it a little here and there, but also you were interested in seeing if I'd nominate it? Is that right? And if so, for which category? --Saukkomies talk 21:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Ah - if you havent done this sort of thing before, it is simply to agree on how important an this article is to the Ukraine Project
On the discussion page you will see the tag, and the ???, and if you go to "edit" you can change the importance to a level.
You can check here for the ways it is done...Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ukraine/Assessment#Importance_scale
Chaosdruid (talk) 21:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm there dude! Hey, could you do me a favor? I don't know how to revert an article to a previous version that I didn't edit. But I need to do that. article to a previous version that I didn't edit. But I need to do that. The article is Neolithic Europe, and I made a mistake by adding a bunch of Neolithic cultures to a list in the article that didn't belong to Europea! I forgot I was in the EUROPEAN Neolithic page, and just went nuts adding links to Neolithic cultures willy nilly. I went ahead and copied the list I'd made over to the general Neolithic article, so the data is saved and will be useful there, but now I need to figure out how to remove all my nonsense in the European Neolithic article, and I can't figure out how to revert. I suppose I could go in and remove everything I did, bit by bit, but the stuff is mixed throughout the article, and would be hard. So, if you'd like, you are free to revert the article back to the "10:16, January 29, 2010" version (the one before I got involved). Thanks--Saukkomies talk 22:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1 Try clicking the undo next to all the ones you want to undo and if it cant it will tell you when you click ok. Once you have done the ones that will work that way you can go for option 2 on the rest
2 If it cant then you will have to edit by hand all the ones that dont work.
Chaosdruid (talk) 22:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, there are a lot of them, 1500 nearly, that need some looking into for ratings etc[1]
Chaosdruid (talk) 22:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Chaosdruid! I've been busy working on a map for the Styri River article, so I haven't been reading my messages. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten you. I'll be working on all this stuff. Talk to you later. 02:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
did you manage to fix the Neolithic article ? Chaosdruid (talk) 02:57, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Not yet. I was busy the last few hours with my family (Sunday evening stuff here), so I am now finally sitting down again to work on things, now that everyone is in bed. I'll be posting what I've worked on, and we'll see how it goes. But I haven't had a chance to fix the Neolithic Europe article yet... --Saukkomies talk 04:39, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
OK - well I have to go to bed now, its 05:20 here lol, and if i keep looking at my watchlist I'll be up all night - good luck and speak to you tomorrow im sure :¬)
Chaosdruid (talk) 05:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for Boian Article[edit]

It was very hard to find references about Maritza Culture.CristianChirita (talk) 21:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Hehe! I was surprised at first, because I tried to create a new page, but it was already done. :) But it all came out. I'd been working on that for about a month, and was finally ready to make it yesterday - so, just like they say: "Great minds think alike"... --Saukkomies talk 22:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi again ! lol

You got any experience on proto history of Cyprus ? (c. 8000bc to 2000 bc)

I have lots of PDF's to go through on pottery and proto language but if you have knowledge of that area would be a great help on a couple of matters

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I know a little about Cyprus history, but am not a complete expert. But I do a fairly good job at digging stuff up - I have a lot of background, so it helps when I'm chasing down something - I know where to dig because I have a good idea of the priority of data. So, I'll look at it and see what I can come up with. This is definitely up my alley - Neolithic/Mesolithic European prehistory - It's got "Me" written all over it!! --Saukkomies talk 04:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Articles I have assessed so far[edit]

hi again again (? lol)

I have just done the first 10 off the list. I will post progress at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine/Assessment

I am now going to do these two Archaeogenetics of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture & Architecture of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture for quality and importance

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Wow !! Really good article on the architecture - well deserving of B class. I did move a few words around and hope you arent too annoyed with my changes. A lot of it was due to the use of commas though.
Chaosdruid (talk) 03:24, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! A lot of that is due to Cristian Chirita, who is a Romanian Wiki editor. He dug most of that article's original research up, along with almost all of the photos for the entire Cucuteni-Trypillian milieu, I've looked through a couple of thousand of his photograhs he's uploaced to WikiCommons that he's taken himself - quite the camera bug! However, I pretty much wrote the Economy of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture on my own without anyone else's help (exceppt I did borrow a couple of photos from Cristian) - so if you like that, then you'll see what my work is like. I also have started a project where I'm looking at all of the archeaological sites for the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, in order to create or improve Wiki articles on them. I've done a few so far, all in Ukraine, where I'm starting out. So far, my favorite one has been the Bilche Zolote article - I got distracted with that one when I discovered this amazing story about the Jews who hid in the caves near that village in WWII. You should check it out! --Saukkomies talk 04:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

February 2010[edit]

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Squirrel has been reverted.
Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline from Wikipedia. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. I removed the following link(s): (matching the regex rule \bfacebook\.com).
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

This was done to the edit I made in the article: Squirrel, section: Albino squirrels. The problem occurred because I included a link to a Facebook group page that is called "I've Seen the Albino Squirrel of Michigan Tech", and which I included to provide another example of how local albino squirrels impact American culture. Apparently this is breaking a rule of Wikipedia to cite a Facebook group, even though I was doing so in good faith, it was relevant to the discussion, and was not promoting anything other than the fact that there's a group in Houghton Michigan that has an avid interest in the local famous albino squirrel, and it is where people may post sightings and photographs of the squirrel. Just another example of a stupid rule. --Saukkomies talk 20:27, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
You should have no problem if you put it like this:-
A Facebook group called "I've Seen the Albino Squirrel of Michigan Tech" is dedicated to this squirrel (or squirrels) by local residents and students (see link at bottom), and...
Chaosdruid (talk) 04:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I've included a newspaper citation referencing the presence of albino squirrels on the MTU campus, which should silence the hecklers for a bit. Later, after the fur stops flying, I think following your advice would be good, but for right now I don't want to create any more tension. --Saukkomies talk 04:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
I shouldn't worry too much, it was just a bot that picked up on the text "facebook" in the body of the article.Chaosdruid (talk) 18:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


I will be in touch in next half hour over others as am just finishing a film ... are you about for a while tonight ?

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:28, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Award of exellence[edit]

Stryi and Upper Dneistr Rivers.PNG

Presented by ChaosDruid on 10 February 2010 - regarding the map I took three days (20+ hours of work) to do for the Stryi River article.

Ukraine Barnstar.png I give you this Ukraine Barnstar for your hours of work on a wonderful map.

Here's the map ==>

Sometimes I get carried away... --Saukkomies talk 02:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry - I as researching on the SR-71 blackbird and Cobra helicopter. I went to the Intrepid museum while I was over your way and took some close ups for the article but got into things too much lol - 3 hours on it was too much tonight.
Good work on the map though, seriously, with that much work its a shame you cant do it for all the rivers...(NO - DONT DO IT !! I know your mind was off there contemplating it lol)
I'll try and get back to things like checking and assessing in a little while, but still need to spend 30 mins on these other things
Do you have the start and end geodata co-ords - its on my "List of things to do I havent quite got around to this year yet!"
Chaosdruid (talk) 03:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Cool thing about the Blackbird and Cobra. My dad was a chopper pilot in the Air Force (yep, I'm a full-scale Air Force Brat) for 20 years. He flew Sikorsky S-61R helicopters mostly - search and rescue... That's how I ended up growing up in Alaska. At any rate, here are the coords for the start and end of the Stryi River:
Start: 48°55'56.57"N 23°08'14.59"E
End: 49°23'50.09"N 24°12'26.91"E
Don't think I won't do that for all Ukrainian rivers! LOL! But I actually want to get back to my other obsession: creating articles for every Neolithic archaeological site in the Ukraine. Muahahaha! --Saukkomies talk 03:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Have you had a look at the open street map project ? I dont know how much of Ukraine is done though...I do now I just looked - its a whole lot of not a lot lol !
Ah well thats not going to help then...Chaosdruid (talk) 03:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
(My dad was in the "we dont talk about it much" 14th SS Division)

(reverting margin)

Wow. I was wondering where your family was from, and how they ended up in Britain. That explains a lot. So, I take it your family was from the old Galician region of western Ukraine? That would also explain your interest in the Stryi River. :)

I have a good friend who's father was from Lithuania, and was involved in stuff he won't talk about. Both my friend's parents were from Lithuania (Lithuanian by birth, too, not transplanted Russians), and somehow they managed to survive the war and met one another in a refugee camp in Poland, and later immigrated to Chicago. The ethics and morality of WWII get very complicated when you start examining what was happening in Eastern Europe.... It's not the "clean, feel-good" war that the Americans fought in France and Westphalia...

At any rate, I hadn't heard about the Open Street Map thing before. Fascinating! And scary, too. Thanks for the link. --Saukkomies talk 04:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Squirrel ‎[edit]

Sorry to have caught you in a bad mood, but could you refactor your response to me here, once you have some time to collect yourself? Maybe just delete the comment now, then reply when you're feeling better? --Ronz (talk) 22:28, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Someone has now responded, so I suggest striking it out. --Ronz (talk) 23:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I regret anything I said to cause concern. I think I'll stick to editing history instead of biology. I don't have people reverting my edits in the history articles I edit... --Saukkomies talk 00:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'd be upset as well if I had a bot revert my edits.
I think it's very difficult to incorporate cultural information into an article that's otherwise heavily based upon a science like biology. It's much easier in history articles, where cultural information is often expected. --Ronz (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Towns and names etc[edit]

It appears there are already lots of redlinks in things like this :-

We will need to look at those and see what needs doing, I suspect for all the Oblasts !! a bit of work methinks !! lol

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:12, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy! You're really opening a kettle of fish with this! I totally agree with you - the administrative centers of every oblast and raion need at least a stub article. Well, it looks like I might have to roll up my sleeves and dig in with you... It beats hanging out at the pub! --Saukkomies talk 00:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Lol - you and your sleeves lmao
Anyway I think you should start here - List of raions in Ukraine by subdivision
As you can see ther are some without lists of raions.
It seems as if there were some articles that have been deleted, all those redlinks, and if that is the case then they would probably be deleted again.
It seems that DDima and others havent been around for a couple of years so I cant tell which it was.
yup - my Dad was from Stryi lol. Problem is that just about every WWII Ukraine article is being heavily edited to add whole sections on war crimes and the argumentsdiscussions can get a bit heated here (i would just read - dont get involved m8) and that is the way it has been the last three years, makes your squirrel problem seem quite amicable lol
Chaosdruid (talk) 01:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I've looked up a lot of them on the deletions/moves logs and it seems like they were never in existence so we/you should be ok to carry on !
Chaosdruid (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Oy. I just scanned through that talk section on the Ukrainian SS, and holy wah! It does nothing to alleviate my built-in (and freely admitted) prejudice I have that every Ukrainian I've ever met is certifiably crazy. Of course (cough cough), I also feel the same way about nearly every nationality, including my own - I'm part Swedish, German and English, and those people are nuttier than a truckload of fruitcakes! Of course, you probably would have an opinion about the English being crazy, I imagine... At any rate, I happen to have next-door neighbors who are from Ukraine - Kiev. She came to the US as a (get this) mail-order bride in the early 1990s, and her son came with her (he's "on the spectrum", so can't live on his own). They are some of our best friends here, and I take her son fishing, we have them over for steaks and beers in the summer, etc. But they're insane - absolutely totally insane! LOL!! And it's the same with every other Ukrainian I've ever met. And I can only imagine what it would be like to have a room full of Ukrainians having a "discussion" about something as touchy and volatile as the Ukrainian Waffen Grenadier SS division! There would be furniture broken, I can absolutely guarantee! I hope you don't take offense to this - like I said, I feel the same about my own cultural heritage - especially the Swedish part of me (which comes through a lot sometimes). I tell my wife that she never has to worry about whether I'll get depressed about anything, since I've already got built-in clinical depression just by being Swedish, and it doesn't get any worse. Oh, well, and then there's the German hot temper... We won't talk about that.

Jericho flag (TV series).svg

On the other hand, I've been watching the tv show Jericho lately (from Netflix, which I don't know if you have in England or not). And what I'm finding is how it is reminding me so much about what the conditions must have been like for people living in western Ukraine and that general area during and immediately after WWII. I have tried over the years to imagine what it must have been like to have lived through that horrible period of time, but I just simply do not have the life experiences (rich and varied as they have been) to even remotely guess at what that must have been like for people. And so it fascinates me, since I can't understand it. This show (Jericho) is about a town in Kansas after a nuclear attack that destroys a bunch of US cities, and it shows how the town and the country end up being thrown into a period of almost complete lawlessness as a result of the government being destroyed. And this is done so that it is absolutely believable - and having it take place in the US really brings it home for me - it actually has helped me understand viscerally what things must have been like in western Ukraine around 1941-46. There would be no government or group back then (or in this tv show) who were "clean", and so what does a person with conscience do? One of the worst scenes in this tv show is when a group of military folks finally show up and end a civil war between these two neighboring towns and establish order, but they have a slightly different-looking American flag - the stripes are vertical, and there are not enough stars on it. And they haul down the real American flag, and raise that one in its place. And that sucked big time for me - I am in no way a jingoistic American, but I did NOT like seeing my flag being lowered and another one raised in its place on American soil. And that awoke in me some of the feelings that some of the people in Western Ukraine must have gone through at various times in the not-so-distant past - and that's just one example. I would seriously love to talk to someone like you about this in very great length sometime. :) At any rate, off to bed for me, I'll see about working on those raion lists tomorrow. --Saukkomies talk 05:49, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Yup Ukrainian at first back in the 800 cent but then Autrian - French - AustroHungarian - Polish - Russian - Polish - German..i think they had enough of it really, can understand why they wanted independence back again.
Anyway I have you to blame for my computer being tied up all night lol
I have "acquired" the first two episodes of Jericho (we had a crap ITV prog of same name so never watched it on tv as thought it was that same crap one)
First was pretty good so am now watching ep2 while I wait for the rest
Will be on later to do some more assessments if you are about this evening...
Chaosdruid (talk) 23:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Although I have a guilty satisfaction of having intruded upon your peacable revery with my assertion of watching the Jericho series, on the other hand I also am delighted that you are indeed watching it. I hope you end up enjoying it as much as my dear wife and I have...--Saukkomies talk 01:14, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Lol - thats 3 watched today now
As for the lions - Ukraine needs 4 of them one for each of N,S,E and W - bloody invaders from every direction (south being those nasty Pecheneg pirates from the sea)
Chaosdruid (talk) 04:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Cucuteni map[edit]

Hi I've made a new C-T map in SVG, what is your opinion?


It's now part of the infobox. --Shandristhe azylean 08:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I love it! Well, if anyone is interested, go to Shandris' "talk" page to see further discussion about this map.--Saukkomies talk 01:11, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


oh dear - I have a bug, its a Jericho bug...I cant stop watching it !

Up to episode 12 so far...thats 8hrs and 25 mins lol. It's very good - another stupid decision to take a good programme off air...typical CBS stupidity (along with so many other TV companies it seems)

I just wish they would give a programme more than one season before they yank them off the air and this one, along with the others, was put on a such a silly time - they can hardly expect them to do well on ratings when they put them up aginst competitors like Bones, NCIS, 24 and so on

Ah well just like Firefly and its finale Serenity we'll have to wait for the film to see how it was really meant to have gone...Chaosdruid (talk) 02:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh no! I feel guilty for having turned you onto Jericho! Well, sort of... Actually, I too got addicted to it. We were watching it tonight - my wife and I. We're half-way through the second season (and I agree - I'm very bummed that CBS canceled it!).
Anyway, I wonder if you (like I) are drawing any analogies between what the writers have created in Jericho and various historical events and themes? As I mentioned earlier, I think it has a lot of comparisons to Ukraine and Eastern Europe during the 20th Century (and other times, too). I think the overall development of the plot is absolutely solid and completely believable. The thing I really like about it is that it walks you through the "post-apocolypse". All of the other sci-fi post-apocolyptic movies I've seen basically start where there's already been a fairly lengthy time of societal breakdown and lawlessness, but Jericho shows in detail how this could so believably happen to even a country as stable and solid as the US. The result of that is incredibly disturbing in many ways, because it shows just what a thin line we walk between civilized society and what we see happen in that show.
Season Two is just as good, if not better, than Season One, so far. I won't give away any of the plot, but it actually picks up the pace a little and events begin to escalate at a rapid pace for people in Jericho. Anyway, I'm delighted you are enjoying it! --Saukkomies talk 05:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi mate
I havliterraly just got back after a weeka nd a bit away for work.
I had no internet access , well apart from my mobile phone, so nothing but WikiWithdrawls. I should get back online in a couple of hours, or maybe Sunday morning and I will try and catch up then...
I did take the second series of Jericho with me though :¬) watched it all on my phone screen lol - that was one pretty good series - I wish it could have carried on though and not been killed off..
Anyway - Ill cach up with you soon
Chaosdruid (talk) 23:23, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Good to see you back, CD. And I hope that your break had some certain compensating advantages to outweigh the burden of Wikiwithdrawal. I am also glad you enjoyed Jericho; I have not yet seen the last few episodes of Season Two, but look forward to culminating the series. I'll be working on some of the articles in need of attention within the Ukrainian WikiProject, so I'm sure we'll have much to discuss soon. --Saukkomies talk 03:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Naming standards - Ukrainian villages etc...[edit]


once again you have surpassed even the map making effort !!

I would give you another barnstar but then it might look like I give them out for just any old thing, so instead I am giving you something nice to eat :¬)


I cannot find fault with it - it looks like you have included everything in there...glad you are working hard as I have not been for the last few weeks...I have been doing stupid things like this Free_Norwegian_Forces and this They_Raid_By_Night and watching the something like 120 hours of rubbish i have downloaded for research on a couple of topics...hopefully I'll get some time to do a few more asessments later

Anyway good work once again !!

Chaosdruid (talk) 03:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Well - I say research but really its not...I'm just trying to justify it I suppose lol
If you havent already discovered it, its the Internet Archive...[2]
Just don't get carried away like I did ! I spent hours downloading stuff from there, old films, vietnam war reports, Waco things, my god there is so much there it is unreal.
One useful resource though is the wayback machine - it keeps archived copies of webpages - roughly every six months it scans a page and keeps a copy of it
Enjoy !...Chaosdruid (talk) 03:55, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I loooove pampushkies! I used to live in a very Polish section of Chicago, and had a Polish bakery about two blocks from my place, so I am well acquainted with them. I'll have to check out the Internet Archive. I showed the site to my wife, who is interested in it - she's a librarian. Anyway ... yawn ... more later. It's now bed time for me. --Saukkomies talk 05:57, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for Milhist coordinator[edit]

Hi m8

Thanks for your nomination!

Unfortunately I do not think that I have enough experience on the technical side, such as MilHist MOS, maintenance of lists or even assessments, to run for a coordinator position nor enough experience of MilHist matters in general as there is also the problem that I have only been a member of the MilHist project for a month or so.

I really do appreciate the nomination though - I am glad that you, at least, saw how I have tried to keep the peace, managed some success at turning diputes into consensus as well as maintaining a neutral position in pages that undoubtably cause heated debates (notably Cyprus articles and anything to do with the Polish/Ukranian Galicia issues)

I cant thank you enough for those kind words my friend !

Also nice to see you back again - I am starting on the Ukranian articles without assessments again tonight :¬)

Chaosdruid (talk) 23:48, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Be aware that nominations are self-nom only. Accordingly your nomination of Chaosdruid has been removed. If he desires to run he is free to put forward his name. -MBK004 10:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, and also I am not a member of the WikiProject:Military History group, so in hindsight I don't know what the heck I was doing, but I'm still glad I did it. CD - I still think you'd make a good coordinator, but at least this way you won't have your attention diverted from the projects you're already busy with. --Saukkomies talk 23:06, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
The coordinator role is pretty time consuming by the look of it - and probably best suited to someone who does nothing other than MilHist project stuff. It also looks like the time spent on it would be around two hours a day and to me that is pretty limiting to ones editing. One of the tasks I noticed was welcoming new members by posting a welcome on thoer chat page - I didnt get one so I can only assume the coordinators are too busy to get around to those small tasks lol
Anyway nice to hear from you again - hope all is well
Chaosdruid (talk) 23:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
It's really not time consuming, actually. For example, "This includes keeping the announcement and open task lists updated, overseeing the assessment and review processes, managing the proposal and creation of task forces, and so forth." The first is normally done by MBK whenever there are new noms. The second means assessing sub-B class articles ("review process" means the A-class review process within Milhist, which you don't have to participate in if you don't want), and the last rarely happens. The most time-consuming job you'll have would be adding to discussions taking place at WT:MHCOORD. —Ed (talkmajestic titan) 22:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


Lady of Pazardzik

I wonder, if you can find, to which culture this lady belong?CristianChirita (talk)

Thanks for asking, Cristian. Here's the information: I found it in an online excerpt of one of Marija Gimbutas' articles, via Google. Not too hard, actually, compared to some of the tough nuts I've worked for entire days to crack in Wikipedia! Anyway, here's the reference:
Gimbutas, Marija, "The Earth Fertility of old Europe", Dialogues d'histoire ancienne, publisher: Les Belles lettres, location: Paris, 1987, vol. 13, no. 13, pp. 11-69. ISSN: 0755-7256; Series ISSN: 0523-0535; LCCN: 76-646774; OCLC: 3265144; Library of Congress classification: AS161 or D51; Dewey classification: 084.193005. Dialogues d'histoire ancienne published under the aegis of the Institut des sciences et techniques de l'antiquité, under the supervision of the Centre de recherches d'histoire ancienne, at the Université de Besançon, France.
The excerpt is found on page 15, with reference to an image of the statuette, located on page 46, along with a caption, which is located on page 31.
Here is the excerpt from the text (page 15):

Figure 3. The enthroned "Lady of Pazardžik" of the Karanovo VI culture (c. 4500 B.C.) is marked by lozenges on her full buttocks and things. This suggests that all fat parts of the body were significant, considered to be "growing" or "pregnant".

Here is the excerpt from the caption (page 31):

Fig. 3. In the Copper Age, the Pregnant Goddess is portrayed seated on a throne. The masked "Lady of Pazardžik" is richly ornamented by a double spiral on her vulva and lozenges on her weighty buttocks and thighs. Karanovo VI (Pazardžik, central Bulgaria ; mid-5th mill.

If you click on the link above, and go to page 46, you'll see it's the same statuette. You might want to look at that article in depth, since it also discusses some of the other artifacts you've taken photos of. Of course, some of it is basically just Gimbutas' voodoo philosophy, but some is decent analysis. That's the problem with her - she'll be talking about something in a good, objective, academic way, and then suddenly without warning she'll jump off into the deep end of the crazy pool. But there ya go - solid documentation for your photo. You might want to take note that the date is 4500 B.C., not 5500... Also, I believe that the correct English transliteration of Пазарджик is Pazardzhik.
BTW, so you recently visited the Austrian National Library in Vienna? Nice!! --Saukkomies talk 04:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! The 5500 BC was stated on the english label from the museum. (they have a far worst english then mine :) which is a record.) As far as i know Karanovo is used by archeologist as a reference for dating artefacts from all Danube cultures. Unfortunately the Austrian National Library was closed on Sunday, sice the article was started by me, it was a must see in Viena,maybe next time... CristianChirita (talk)
As gift for your support, here is the picture of an unexplained elephant man from Cucuteni :)
There is something similar with in Spain? I have an old project involving

Madrid SkylitzesCristianChirita (talk)

Interesting stuff Cristian. Thanks for showing me this. I see that I have another subject to read up on! --Saukkomies talk 02:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Vinča-Tordos Script[edit]

I have a sugestion to change the Vinča-Tordos title in Danube Script considering that it seems that the signs were used in other neolithic cultures and not necessary only Vinča-Tordos.CristianChirita (talk)

I totally support this. I think that the work that Marco Merlini and the The Institute of Archaeomythology (among others) also supports this. It appears from the various conference papers and journal articles on the subject of Southeastern European Neolithic proto-writing that have been published in recent years that the consensus in the international academic community is to bring all of these various examples of proto-writing from that era into one general category, which they consistently refer to as Danube Script (as you indicated above).
I would go further to suggest that all of the articles in Wikipedia that discuss this should be merged into one article that addresses the entire subject uniformly, in order to avoid confusion and redundancy. Maybe we could contact some of the other people who might be interested in this subject, and get their feedback about doing this, so that a consensus could be reached before just making the change first, which would help to avoid making anyone upset.
I think that the best way to do this would be to collect a series of articles that clearly indicates that the entire milieu of southeastern European Neolithic or Chalcolithic proto-writing is now called The Danube Script by those scholars most involved in its research, and then cite these sources in the Talk pages of the Wikipedia articles that we'd propose to merge. That way the evidence would be laid forward so that the reasoning behind a merging proposal would be on the table at the start, and would strengthen our case.
I don't mind doing much of the writing, but I would appreciate help from anyone who would like to contribute in any way. Let's see how it goes. What are your thoughts about this? --Saukkomies talk 02:44, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Politics section of Upper Peninsula of Michigan[edit]

You might want to reverse the color scheme of your table. In the US, Red=Republican and Blue=Democrat since 2000. See Red states and blue states for an explanation. Imzadi1979 (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

LOL! You're not going to believe this! I had just finished editing the section, and was getting up to go to the grocery store to buy some items for my wife to cook for dinner, when... I saw that I'd reversed the Red/Blue thing! So I thought - it'll only be an hour, nobody will notice. Okay, so now we're done with dinner, I log back on - and ... Aaargh! Somebody noticed! LOL!! Oh well. Of course, I'm just now going to fix it. It's good to know someone is keeping a good eye on things. Thanks for looking out Imzadil. --Saukkomies talk 23:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

April 2010 GAN backlog elimination drive[edit]

WikiProject Good Articles will be running a GAN backlog elimination drive for the entire month of April. The goal of this drive is to bring the number of outstanding Good Article nominations down to below 200. This will help editors in restoring confidence to the GAN process as well as actively improving, polishing, and rewarding good content. If you are interested in participating in the drive, please place your name here. Awards will be given out to those who review certain numbers of GANs as well as to those who review the most. Hope we can see you in April.
Symbol support vote.svg

MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 18:12, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


When you create or upload files which are free-use can you upload them to Wikimedia Commons instead of Wikipedia, as is preferred? —innotata 00:55, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

If I understand, then yes - if you create your own, or upload free-use files, you may upload them to either Wikicommons or to Wikipedia. However, they must be free and clear of any copyright restrictions.--Saukkomies talk 01:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Actually, images that are free-use in the US and their country of creation should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, and any free images uploaded here are moved to Wikimedia Commons. Wikimedia Commons serves as a centralised collection of free images (see commons:Commons:Welcome). As for how to upload: it is essentially the same as uploading to Wikipedia. If you have unified login, you create an account at the Commons by visiting it. —innotata 01:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. --Saukkomies talk 01:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Cropped map[edit]

Thanks for making the Grizzled giant squirrel distribution map - I have made a crop of it but I am waiting for your file to go into commons so that I can mark it as a derivative. Of course it would be best if you made a tighter crop so that only the South Asia region shows. Shyamal (talk) 04:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This is true. I've thought about doing it that way. I'm thinking that maybe it would be good to do it both ways - like they have in the IUCN web site: if you click on their world map view, it will open a page that shows the cropped map view for a closer inspection. On the other hand, since the maps I'm making are SVG, a user may click on the map and then choose to click on the 2000x version in the map's file page to get a closer view of the range... It takes a LOT of extra work for me to crop the SVG maps, and right now I'm trying to go through and make range maps for all of the tree squirrel species' pages (about 120 I believe), and so maybe I think I'll just keep plugging away and making the maps on the global scale, just so that I can get it done. After that I'll look into making a cropped version of each map (unless you would want to). I think it is good for the average user to see the global range map - it places it quickly in their mind where the species' habitats are located better than closeup views. So that's why I think it is necessary to create a global map. At any rate, thanks for the suggestion. I'm still trying to figure out all the intricacies of how this sort of thing is done in the Wikiuniverse, and I appreciate the help and suggestions. --Saukkomies talk 13:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it would have been nice if Wikipedia had a GIS backend for us to mark spots or polygons to deal with better. Some regions are particularly difficult to make maps for - see for example what was done for Togian White-eye. If you are using Inkscape, first select the blank map region, ungroup all the grouped items (Ctrl+Shift+G repeatedly) - then use the combine option, after that use a rectangle and do and intersection to crop desired area. Once you have a "simple path" as a world map base, things are much easier. Shyamal (talk) 13:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Checking in right back at ya lol[edit]

Hi m8

I have been very busy with work and other stuff - including taking on a request for a map of Tikal

I have been doing 12 abd 14 hour days and with the hour and a bit drive to and from work, thats right, 15 and 17 hours lol, it means I have been coming home and falling asleep with my face in my dinner lol

Weekends have been tied up with bits of work here and there as well as life stuff and only been on the pc for my own things a couple of times in the last month

The factory got shut down and now we managed to get recertified and reopened I should have more time from next weekend onwards, if not this week as I am trying to take some time off now, so should be around more in the next few days.

Lol - nuts lmao

I don't know how you are editing your map stuff but maybe we should try and chat later this week and see if I can help you do it more easily after the last description it seems you may be able to cut down some steps if we can get you some good free software for you to use :¬)

I miss Wikiworld, and yes you too lol, but had to get the factory reopened so had to completely rewrite the HACCP plan and sort out staff and hygiene and with the change of ownership and name that meant re-designing the labels and the uniforms and oh my god I could go on for an hour about it.

I will be around tomorrow after the Grand Prix and probably off work on monday so maybe catch up sooner than later ?

cu soon m8

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:05, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! Hope you're doing okay there in the fallout zone of Eyjafjallajökull. I lived in Anchorage, Alaska during my teenage years, and remember several volcanic ash plume fallouts - it was fantastic for nature (we had amazing flowers everywhere the next summer after a fallout), but everyone's cars had to have their brake pads replaced several times due to the volcanic ash acting like a scouring cleanser between the drum and pads...
It sounds like you're busier than Marilyn Monroe at a Kennedy Family Reunion! I'm slightly less busy, due to the fact that we're finally buying a house for the first time ever. Oy. We're buying a small (1400 square feet - 130 square meters) but nice Queen Anne Victorian house in Laurium, Michigan (about 10 miles from where we live now) - for $49,000!! (that's €36,750, I think) Yep, and it's in fantastic condition, too. It's so cheap because nobody wants to live here in the snow belt, even though the entire town is officially listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places. So we're busy trying to get out of our current house and into the new one.
I think the reason I want to make the map by hand is to make sure that I'm using actual real-life data as the basis for the map - I have yet to find a map of the Ukraine in WikiCommons that is completely accurate or reliable as far as the basic details, such as scale, coastline and river locations, borders, etc. There are accurate maps that have just the border, but I also want to include the major bodies of water, which I feel is an important feature to include in most maps used in Wikipedia. So to get that, I'm going through slowly and drawing the features in by hand, carefully locating the body of water and its rough shape, square-by-square (using a 1-degree latitude and longitude square). It's actually coming along much faster than I'd originally thought.
At any rate, hope things mellow out soon for you so you can have a little free time. Talk to you laters... --Saukkomies talk 13:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Sociology Newsletter: II (April 2010)[edit]

Sociology ProjectNews • April 2010
Spreading the meme since August 2006

The Sociology WikiProject is conducting a roll call (or min-census, if you prefer). More then five years down the road, we have over 50 members, but we don't know how many of them are still active in the sociology area. If you are or want to become once again an active contributor to the sociology content on Wikipedia, please move your name from the inactive to the active list on our roll call (or add yourself to the list if you haven't joined yet!).

In other news, we have reactivated the newsletter :) At least, for this announcement. We also have a new, automated to do listing, an active tag and assess project (which has identified about 1,800 sociology articles on Wikipedia, and assessed about 1,3000 of them), and three new userboxes for your self-identification pleasure :) On a final note, I highly recommend watchlisting the Wikipedia:WikiProject Sociology page, so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions.

You have received this newsletter because you are listed as a recipient of WikiProject Sociology Newsletter (Opt-out). • signed

Hi m8[edit]

Hope all is well with you

I have been on an enforced abscence due to work, computer and back problems but should be on a bit more now

Have you got lost in the mapping project ?? If you need a hand you know I am more than willing to do some of the nasty work if you need me to

anyhoo - hope all is well with you and yours and hopefully spk soon


Chaosdruid (talk) 02:00, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi CD! Sorry to hear about your back giving you fits. For me it's my knees - oof. Like you, I've been busier than David Cameron at a bicycle thieves' convention.
We recently bought a house - an 1890s vintage Victorian - which is in fantastic shape, but still needs some work, which means everything else in my life has been put on hold (including Wikipedia projects I've been working on). We're taking out the hideous green shag carpet and restoring the beautiful maple floors, stripping off the wallpaper and putting in solid wood wainscoting with period-looking wallpaper prints and painting schemes throughout. The old galvanized steel plumbing was ripped out and replaced with copper, and we're doing other plumbing repairs (such as rooting the main sewer stack, replacing faucets and sinks, etc). We're taking advantage of a tax rebate to install a 96% efficient condensing natural gas boiler and attached indirect water heater system to replace the old fuel oil boiler and electric water heater - which will hopefully save us tons of money in heating costs - a serious issue where we live... This is just a sampling of all we're planning for the house.
Meanwhile, all this had to be put on the back burner so we could move - which we're in the final stages of doing. We're only moving 10 miles, but a move is a move... So this last weekend was the BIG EFFORT - I rented a U-Haul moving truck, hired a couple of 20-something guys to help, called in some favors from good friends to help out, and we managed to haul about 90% of our household in one day. However, the weather (which as been nice and cool - in the mid teens) decided to go ballistic for the first time this year - the temperature on Sunday, which was the biggest day of the move, reached 30 degrees! And the humidity was close to 100%! We were all completely drenched in sweat for the full 12 hours of the move - I kept running to the store to pick up bottled mineral water and Gatorade for my poor crew, one fellow ended up throwing up from the heat at the end of the day - I myself almost passed out while I was unloading the enclosed moving truck (which didn't have any cross-ventilation, and the front end of the thing was easily 37 to 40 degrees!).
But it's my poor knees that really have taken the biggest beating - for the past week I've been kept awake from throbbing knee pain. Thankfully we have set up our window air conditioners, so we can stay cool at night. But we're living out of boxes right now, we don't know where anything is (it seems), and meanwhile life goes on - I have to drop off and pick up my son from school, and my wife from her work every day - contractors are coming at odd hours to do work on the house that I can't do, so I have to be home for them, and I seem to keep breaking things (I broke the faucet spout off of the tub, ripped the left-side rear-view mirror off of the car while backing out of the garage, and sat on my eyeglasses, dropped my laptop computer which now doesn't work - but fortunately have the desktop computer to type on). So - thank goodness I am a substitute teacher, and don't have to go to work if I am too busy - I've been turning down a LOT of work lately - I'm just too dang busy with the house.
But, I expect this will all be over and things will settle down to a routine in a couple of months, and I'll be able to return to my work on the map. I have to say that it is a very good map, too! Better than anything in Wikipedia or WikiCommons, IMHO. I've been working around the periphery of the Black Sea coastline, and have all of the coast done from Bulgaria through the middle of the Crimean Peninsula - including tracing the major rivers and lakes, and the international and Ukrainian oblast boundaries. It is HIGHLY accurate, too, since how I'm doing it is I take a snapshot from Google Earth of a polygon area measuring one degree of latitude and longitude (eg: 39-40 degrees east by 44-45 degrees north), and then pasting this screenshot temporarily into the Inkscape image where it fits. I then trace on top of the natural features (and borders, if any) creating an .SVG image that almost exactly replicates real life. Once I've finished with tracing out one of these screenshots, I delete it, leaving behind the .SVG image I created. I connect any lines to other bordering sections that have already been done, and then go on to copy and paste the next screenshot. The result of this will be a map that may be blown up to a very large resolution, with almost no distortion, and which will be incredibly accurate for detail and for geophysical location - in other words, I'm leaving in the latitude and longitude lines, and it will be possible to locate places to a fair degree of accuracy on this map - creating future maps from it that are of a detail section anywhere on the map, which will be accurate and clean.
Anyway, looking at it, I think it's a one-person job, since the map has to be done on one computer in order to minimize any possible distortion that may occur from one file to the next, until it's all done. After that, it can be used to create other maps by anyone who wants to download Inkscape (it's free). Well, better skoot along. Take care, and I'll keep in touch. --Saukkomies talk 14:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
!! 'Kinhell !! you sound like you have been through the wars lol
Nice to hear you managed to get the house you wanted - I don't like the idea of all that rust running through the pipes the poor previous owner must've suffered from a lot of rust in the water...
At the moment my back is not too bad; a little twinge in the lower part stops me from sitting at the computer for more than a couple of hours at a time and having to use the exercise bike (which is my only way of exercise at the moment) means I am feeling a litle unhealthy
Point taken on the map though - do you have the capability to outline trace from a program ? I use coreldraw which allows me to put the image in, trace the outlines and then delete the original. Sounds like you are well on the way to an epic barnstar :¬)
Hope all goes well with the rest of your renovations - we had a similar heatwave for a couple of weeks but the weather here went in reverse for a couple of months until last week when summer finally decided to appear
Best wishes to you and yours and hope you get everything ready before autumn.
If you are on for a few minutes can you maybe have a quick check that I have my dates in the right order and perhaps point me in the direction of possible research material for this Metallurgy of Ukraine#History ?
Take care of those knees !! Chaosdruid (talk) 07:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer[edit]

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Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 18:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh wow, cool, and thanks, Courcelles. I will do my best to use this privilege with care and diplomacy, adhering to Wikiquette philosophy. --Saukkomies talk 00:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The Holy grail of Cucuteni[edit]

The was no necropolis discovered for Cucuteni. Still some of the Cucuteni houses are mrked with ritual of the sacrifice. In the old danube area there are some legend like Meşterul Manole, the curious thing is that the legend has similarities in the present day Bulgaria an former Yugoslavia, if the same legend is present in Ukraine maybe we have some link with neolithic. This is right now "original research", but is something ionteresting...CristianChirita (talk)

Interesting, indeed, Cristian! This is a fascinating field of study. Thanks for telling me about it. --Saukkomies talk 18:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Free and easy with your affections lol[edit]

Hi m8

I just saw your little end piece on the UKR portal "and self confessed map slut"

I could not stop laughing for a good minute so had to say thx for making me laugh :¬)

Hope things are coming along nicely in your new place and I look forwards to winter when maybe you'll have finished the map lmao

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

LOL! Thanks for the post, CD! Yep, as a lad I spent many the hour during classtime (when I was supposed to be occupying myself otherwise) staring and memorizing maps and atlases in the back of the Social Science textbooks. Well, work progresses on the new house (although "new" is not the appropriate word for this grand old Victorian Lady we moved into). We have done a lot, but lot is yet to do, and so yes, it will be (alas) winter until I am free to dedicate my energies and time towards finishing the fantastic SVG map of SE Europe (including Ukraine). When done, it will be a glorious thing, I promise. Until then, back to the table saw and plumber's wrench for me... --Saukkomies talk 03:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Cucuteni map again[edit]

Thank you for your hard work on this subject. There were over 1000 settlements? Is this information available somewhere? I am interested to know if there were any settlements in Vinnytsia oblast in Ukraine. Also, I can offer to help in map development. I did not read the entire conversation, but I am skilled in graphics software if that will be helpful. Thank you! USchick (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your offer to help! In order to respond to your first question, I was working off of a document that gave a list of sites in Ukraine - I actually intend to get around someday to creating a Wiki article for every single Cucuteni-Trypillian site, even it if is just a small mention. I was using as my primary source for the Ukrainian settlements a document written by Dr. Mykhailo Videiko and published under the "old" web site (which no longer is up). I can't seem to locate this document now, though, so I'm going to have to find out where it is and such (I can't remember the name of it, either). It basically gave the locations for several dozen of the larger and more important sites. However, if you want to find out whether there were any settlements in the Vinnytsia oblast, which I am certain there are, I would start by joining the Yahoo chat group called Trypillia - Trypillian Civilization - Ukraine located here: and ask the people there - I am fairly certain that Dr. Videiko is one of the active members of that forum. Otherwise, you could go to the online journal called Trypillian Civilization Journal and ask there - Dr. Videiko is on the editorial board there:
As a matter of fact, I know of several sites in the Vinnytsia oblast - this was right in the thick of the Cucuteni-Trypillian settlement region. So it's mostly a matter of which specific area you'd most be interested in.
As per question #2: I would love to have help with the maps. However, the way it is right now, this would actually be quite difficult to do. Let me explain what I'm doing: I am using InkScape to create a map of Ukraine and SE Europe, centered over roughly northwest Crimean Peninsula. I've incorporated the mapping grid so that the curvature of the longitudes are accounted for, but I've kept the latitudes as straight lines. I set up a gridwork based on whole round numbers of degrees, both for latitude and longitude - so that each degree has its own trapezoidal area on the map.
Then, I go to GoogleEarth and copy a corresponding area and paste it to each of the separate sections in InkScape. Then I go in and (by hand) trace directly from the satellite data from GoogleEarth all major bodies of water and political boundaries. Or rather, I trace the international boundaries for all nations, and include the provincial boundaries for Romania, MOldova and Ukraine. After having traced the GoogleEarth data, I delete the layer for the Google Earth image, leaving behind a simplified rendering of the geographic and political data, taken directly from the raw primary data of the satellite photographs. It would be very difficult to get a map that would be more accurate than what I am making.
The end result will be a highly accurate SVG map that will show the major rivers and lakes and the coastline, as well as the political boundaries of the entire SE Europe, with special attention to Romania, Moldovo and Ukraine. People may at that point use this map to create smaller detailed maps from it. However, at this point, the map being about 40% complete and all, it would be very hard to coordinate eforts. I do appreciate the offer, though. After I've done the big map, you will of course be free to use it to create other maps. I'm especially hopeful that an entire series of maps might be made using this SVG map I'm making to create locator maps for all Ukrainian oblasts and raions, and even major towns and cities, rivers, and lakes, etc.
At any rate, you can see I've still a lot of work to do on this whole thing. The reason I started making this huge SVG map was directly because I wanted to be able to have an SVG map of the region that I could use to create more detailed (and highly accurate) maps that would show specifically where the various Cucuteni-Trypillian culture archaeological sites are located, as part of my larger goal of creating a Wiki article for each of these sites. It is just lagniappe that this map may be used by others for other applications. :) At any rate, I hope to see more of you. If you'd like to help out with the project, I have some specific areas that need work... Let me know. --Saukkomies talk 03:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for the links and the explanation. I'd like to help with the project, what did you have in mind? USchick (talk) 17:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Wow. I'm quite impressed that anyone is offering to help out on these articles! Thank you in advance for any help you mightbe able to lend. I noticed that you've contributed to articles of a spiritual/relgious/historic nature, which is really cool, some of those subjects are near and dear to my heart as well. I am not quite sure whether you'd be interested in doing the same with the Cucuteni-Trypillian ritual and religion section and subarticle, but those things need quite a bit of help still. Here are the links:
Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, subsection: Ritual and religion
Religion and ritual of the Cucuteni–Trypillian culture
If you start looking into these sections, you'll soon realize just how much work still needs to be done with them to clean them up. If you'd like to, and feel inclined to do so, those would really benefit from any assistance that might be given. I would strongly suggest working with Christian Chirita, who along with me, is the main contributor to these Cucuteni-Trypillian articles. He is Romanian, and has a penchant for going to museums and taking lots of fantastic photographs, which is where 99% of the photos in these articles come from. Not only that, but he also is a pretty good researcher, and knowing Romanian (and Moldovan), it comes in handy to draw on his expertise.
As per the general drift of where the articles ought to be written, as far as the overall philosophy of the thing, we've tried very hard to maintain a neutral Wikipedia philosophy in regards to any religious and political controversies. However, sometimes it has become necessary to take a solid stance on a particular perspective. One example is the use of Cucuteni-Trypillian for each reference to the culture - not just Cucuteni, not just Trypillian, and not Trypolian or Danubian at all. This is explained in better detail in the section on Nomenclature. Indeed, there are still some very academically-oriented groups and individuals out there who maintain the practice of labelling the culture by whatever nationalistic nomenclature they are from (for instance, the site). This is rather unfortunate, in my opinion, and until the day that a universally-accepted unifying label comes along, I believe we are stuck with the klunky and cumbersome Cucuteni-Trypillian label. Oh well.
So the same thing goes in regards to Marija Gimbutas we've had to come down with a particular stand in regards to her research. And I bring her up, because if you do take on the challenge of cleaning up the ritual and religion sections, you're going to immediately run into her like a brick wall. Now, I'm certain that there are people out there of sound mind and reason who still hold that *everything* that Gimbutas laid claim to is still accurate and scientifically valid, but I and Christian have pretty much come to the conclusion that Gimbutas just cannot be held as the be-all-and-end-all on the subject of Neolithic civilization, as she used to be by many people about thirty years ago. On the other hand, much of what she says is still accurate, but much just isn't, and has been refuted quite solidly by such eminent scholars as J.P. Mallory, etc. However, whether one agrees with Gimbutas or not, she still must absolutely be discussed in any article about ritual or religion - it would be like talking about socialism without discussing Marx... So I'm throwing that out there as sort of a "head's up": tackling Gimbutas, and figuring out just what to include and what not will most certainly be a major challenge for taking on these subjects. It's not like we're totally shut to anyone who wants to present a different take on Gimbutas' research in the Wiki articles, but until we get any solid data that would convince us to do otherwise, our official stance on Gimbutas is that she must be taken with a grain of salt, and that her work is always caveated with a mention of it being "controversial".
At any rate, thanks so much for your help. If you wish, you may write to me directly - my email is --Saukkomies talk 21:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage[edit]

Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Re: Hi there[edit]

(copied from my talk page)

Thanks for the message. I really admire the work you've done on the Cucuteni-Tripolye articles - it actually inspired me to go and improve other prehistory-related articles by showing me that it is possible to have really well done and comprehensive articles that are not rendered completely useless by jargon. I can't say I have anything significant to add to them now (like I said, comprehensive!), but if I do in the future I look forward to collaborating with you on it. I'm doing my UG dissertation on a Cucuteni-Tripolye site, Nebelivka, so maybe that will turn up something useful. While you're here though, maybe there's something we can work together on now: I've recently tried to inject some life into Wikipedia:WikiProject Archaeology, which I see you're a member of, perhaps you'd be interested in helping me with that? It would be great to have a more experience editor on board, as I'm still relatively new to proper editing. —Joseph RoeTkCb, 07:26, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for copying that here, but you don't need to worry about doing that, Joey Roe - I will be able to keep an eye on the discussion from your talk page (and other pages) through my Watchlist. Indeed, I set "My Watchlist" as the default home page for my computer's internet browser - so it's the first thing that pops up whenever I log onto the internet. :) I scan changes made to my active watchlist on a regular basis - multiple times a day - even when I'm in hiatus mode this summer. So don't worry about copying something here if it's being discussed elsewhere - I'll follow you. :) --Saukkomies talk 13:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


Talk:Cucuteni-Trypillian culture/GA1. Nergaal (talk) 23:48, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow. I'm amazed! --Saukkomies talk 00:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

He lives !![edit]

Hi m8

Nice to see you back again - I was starting to think you had got yourself frozen to a pipe in your basement and wouldnt be back till March ! lol

Hope all is well with you and yours and that you didnt manage to make the house fall down :¬)

Chaosdruid (talk) 01:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi CD! How are things in beautiful Albion? We're here in the Upper Peninsula living with the executioner's axe raised, anticipating the blow of imminent snowfall, but I believe we're ready for it: all hatches being battened, the attic and basement winterized, etc. Once it starts we won't see bare earth around here until April, after receiving our annual allotment of 800 cm of the white stuff. At any rate, hope all is well with you and yours - does it snow much in "The Rainy City"?
I have managed to get the old Ukraine mega-map out and dusted off in the last couple of weeks. I'll be working away on it, and hopefully I'll have a lovely map to share before too long. If you need any help with any Wikikedia projects that I might have some talent to assist, please do not hesitate to drop me a line and I'll see what I might manage. --Saukkomies talk 13:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

обласного or областного and i to y[edit]


I would appreciate some input here from more Ukrainian speakers/readers - especially from yourself as we had that long debate about setting naming standards all those years ago (well it seems it)

thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 17:49, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I replied in the here thread. Interesting subject, and thanks for asking for my opinion, ChaosD. :) --Saukkomies talk 12:30, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
apart from it appears that I reverted from Ukrainian to Russian lol. I was using the google plugin for firefox and it seems that it may be unreliable as it was that which prompted me to suspect incorrect Ukrainian.
snow has just arrived so I hope you are not suffering too much as well
still stuck without my pc but will hopefully have saved enough for a new mboard before xmas - editing on this mobile phone is driving me mad !
Chaosdruid (talk) 14:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh wow - editing via mobile phone must be horrible! Good luck! --Saukkomies talk 22:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Sociology membership[edit]

You are listed in the Category:Wikipedians interested in sociology, probably due to the use of "This user is interested in sociology" userbox, but you have not added yourself to our official member list for WikiProject Sociology. This prevents you from, among other things, receiving our sociology newsletter, as that member list acts as our newsletter mailing list (you can find the latest issue of our sociology newsletter here). If you'd like to receive the newsletter and help us figure out how many members we really have, please consider joining our WikiProject and adding yourself to our official member list. Thank you, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 13:24, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Dacia[edit]

Roman bust of a Dacian tarabostes, Hermitage, St Petersburg, Russia - 20070614.jpg
Hi! From your edits, it looks like you might be interested in ancient Dacia. Would you like to join the WikiProject Dacia? It is a project aimed to better organize and improve the quality and accuracy of the articles related to these topics. We need help expanding and reviewing many articles, and we also need more images. Your input is welcomed! Thanks and best regards!

--Codrin.B (talk) 22:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for joining WikiProject Dacia! Please let us know if you have any questions, suggestions or if there are certain areas where you have expertise and want to participate. The project pages, categories and templates are almost done and functional, although there is plenty of room for improvement. Looking forward to collaborate on great articles! --Codrin.B (talk) 15:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year ![edit]

Hi m8

Got my PC back up and running - yay !

Sorry to have missed saying it earlier but my mobile phone was not very good at editing - it seems that if the page got over a certain size it was truncating the pages and corrupting the text so I had to stop using it :¬(

Anyway I hope things are well with you and that you have managed to dig yourself out of the snow drifts lol

See you soon :¬)

Chaosdruid (talk) 21:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Bummer about editing via mobile phone! But amazed that you even tried! LOL!! Thanks for the shout-out, and hope you and yours have a wonderful 2011. :) --Saukkomies talk 03:29, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

March 2011 GAN backlog elimination drive a week away[edit]

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WikiProject Good Articles will be running a GAN backlog elimination drive for the entire month of March. The goal of this drive is to bring the number of outstanding Good Article nominations down to below 50. This will help editors in restoring confidence to the GAN process as well as actively improving, polishing, and rewarding good content. If you are interested in participating in the drive, please place your name here. Awards will be given out to those who review certain numbers of GANs as well as to those who review the most. On behalf of my co-coordinator Wizardman, we hope we can see you in March. MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 00:00, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference[edit]

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Thank you for your understanding and happy editing :) Editing on behalf of User:Jarry1250, LivingBot (talk) 18:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I'm somewhat new to counter-vandalism here so I am not quite sure what to do. However, on reviewing the user's talk page, it seems like the user is somewhat new, has poor command of English, and is rather confused about the various rules of Wikipedia, and this has all caused him to make a lot of mistakes. I put the level-one vandal warning (per what the counter-vandalism page suggested) on his talk page with an explanation for why what he did was wrong, and he responded saying he thought it was a copy of the "believes in the word of God" box and didn't realize that the other box still existed. I'm taking him at his explanation for now while putting the page on my watchlist and I'm keeping an eye on it, but feel free to leave your own note on his talk page or report him if you want. Beggarsbanquet (talk) 11:33, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this, BB. I think that sounds like the appropriate way to go. It lets him know that people are watching what he does, which is a good thing in many ways, not just as a protection against vandalism. Thanks for taking the time to do this. --Saukkomies talk 15:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Cucuteni - Dacian bracelets[edit]


First of all, I hope that you are well and not stuck under some large piece of wood shouting for help :¬)

Anyway, I am copy-editing this article Dacian bracelets - a wonderfully informative article btw. It could do with some sort of structure, especially regarding the pictures and their lack of being close to the text whcih describes them. Any chance you can take a look at it? It is a pretty marvellous one and held my interest from start to finish, though I am somewhat a sucker for gold, treasure, and anyone who could get one over on the Romans lol :¬)

Hey, Chaos! Yeah, I'm still around. Right now I'm getting ready to teach at the local university starting this Fall semester (which begins next week already!). I'm going back to work at a real job for the first time in 5 years - my son is in school now, and I don't need to be a stay-at-home dad so much, so I'm going to be teaching at the university - woo hoo!
I took a look at the article - and holy cow! you are correct: it does need a lot of work.I would say that right off the bat what needs to be done the most is to work on the introductory paragraph. Even after going over the article, I cannot easily ascertain the time frame of when either the Dacians flourished (something even the article on the Dacians doesn't seem to spell out very clearly), not to mention what time period the bracelets are associated with: that should be in the first sentence, but it's missing almost entirely from the whole article.
The other thing missing from the leading paragraph is where the bracelets have been found. A leading paragraph should include the "Who What When Where and Why" if at all possible, and although it tells the Who and What, it doesn't explain the other stuff, which it should. The "Why" is also briefly touched on in the lead paragraph, so that's okay...
I'll keep an eye on this article - it looks intriguing. Perhaps if I have time I'll help out. Thanks for asking. --Saukkomies talk 14:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

New Year etc[edit]


Long time no see, hope all is well with you - and you aren't lost in the woods with your saw looking at your arm stuck under a rock...

Unfortunately real life events took over this year and messed up my happy time. It starts with my brothers birthday at the end of November and goes through thanksgiving, several friends birthdays in December, Christmas, New year, Ukrainian Christmas, another friends bday in early January, then the "long week" my friends boy, mine, then my ex-boss' (with whom I am a sort of friend) all within 4 days of each other - indeed my birthday is on Ukrainian New Years eve. This year has been a little up-in-the air, but seems that all was well in the end.

My Christmas card list got messed up when my new electricity supply company failed to correctly reset the meter, leaving me without electricity for 24 hours from 14:00 Christmas day - so:

Kleiner Weihnachtsbaum als Grabschmuck.JPG
Seasons Greetings
Had a Merry Christmas
and a
Happy New Year?
Forgive the lateness of my wishing you Christmas cheer...
Thanks for the greetings!--Saukkomies talk 13:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Saukkomies. You have new messages at Codrinb's talk page.
Message added 15:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Happy New Year! A note for you. Codrin.B (talk) 15:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

It was my fault, I have picked up a copyedit request on the article Costoboci. I wondered if you knew anything about the history of that particular area, as per the conversations here and here, as well as maybe being able to bring some more references or sources for us to look at that might clear things up regarding their disposition and cultural influences from 200 BC to 200 AD would be great. I know you are busy, but if you can point us towards anything that can help I think we would be eternally grateful! Chaosdruid (talk) 05:46, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I honestly know nothing about the Costoboci. But this looks like a totally fascinating subject. I will see if I can do some research on them. Also, it looks like you could use a better map... :) I'll see what I can do to help out. --Saukkomies talk 13:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I particularly liked the part where they are described as invading the Roman Empire, anyone who could do that was ok in my book :¬)
A map comparing the current countries to the tribes at the time would be wonderful, though it seems they may fall into a gap between the two I mentioned on the talk page. I would be interested in seeing if they were a cross-Carpathian tribe, as normally mountain-ranges separated tribes in both culture and languages.
I have tried doing some internet research, but not got very far yet ... Thanks for offering to help, that would be great! Chaosdruid (talk) 15:37, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Right now I'm not too busy. Perhaps tomorrow I'll swing by the university library and spend some time digging around through the online academic journal databases for this subject. I'll let you know what I find. --Saukkomies talk 17:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


No problem; it's entirely non-obvious and easy to forget if you don't deal with this on daily basis. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 10, 2012; 21:59 (UTC)

Hope all is well[edit]

Hi m8

Just a quick note to say hi and hope all is well with you.

Chaosdruid (talk) 15:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for checking in, Chaosdruid. All is actually well, if a bit busy. I hope all is well with you, too. --Saukkomies talk 18:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

File:Trypillia village painting.PNG listed for deletion[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Trypillia village painting.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —innotata 21:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Your interest[edit]

Greeks, writing, and Cucuteni :) (talk)

WikiProject Good articles (Participant Clean-Up)[edit]

Hello, you are receiving this message because you are currently a participant of WikiProject Good articles. Since the creation of the WikiProject, over 200 user's have joined to help review good article nominations and contribute to other sections of the WikiProject. Over the years, several of these users have stopped reviewing articles and/or have become inactive with the project but are still listed as participates. In order to improve communications with other participants and get newsletters sent out faster (newsletters will begin to be sent out monthly starting in October) all participants that are no longer active with the WikiProject will be removed from the participants list.

If you are still interested in being a participant for this WikiProject, please sign your user name here and please help review some articles so we can reduce the size of the backlog. If you are no longer interested, you do not need to sign your name anywhere and your name will be removed from the participants list after the deadline. Remember that even if you are not interested at this time, you can always re-add your name to the list whenever you want. The deadline to sign your name on the page above will be November 1, 2012. Thank-you. 13:33, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Update for: WikiProject Good articles (Participant Clean-Up)[edit]

Sorry for having to send out a second message but a user has brought to my attention that a point mentioned in the first message should be clarified. If user's don't sign on this page, they will be moved to an "Inactive Participants" list rather then be being removed from the entire WikiProject. Sorry for any confusion.--Dom497 (talk)15:23, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Newsletter - October 2012[edit]

Delivered October 3, 2012 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive this newsletter any longer, please remove your name from this list.

→ Please direct all enquiries regarding this newsletter to the WikiProject talk page.
→ Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 05:45, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles - Participant Clean-up (Second Call)[edit]

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You are reciving this message because you have not added your name to the list of active WikiProject Good Articles participants. Though you may have recived the first message sent out in September, some users may have had that message archived before coming online to read it and therefore never saw it. If you are deeming yourself inactive with the WikiProject please disregard this message as your name will be moved to an "inactive participant" list at the end of the clean-up. If you are still active with the WikiProject, please be sure to include your name on this list. The current deadline to add your name to the list (if you are still active) is November 1, 2012. A third and final message will be sent out during the last week of the clean-up before the deadline. Thank-you.--EdwardsBot

WikiProject Good Articles - Participant Clean-up (Final Call)[edit]

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You are receiving this message because you have not added your name to the list of active WikiProject Good Articles participants. Though you may have recived the past two messages sent out in September and October, some users may have had that message archived before coming online to read it and therefore never saw it. If you are deeming yourself inactive with the WikiProject please disregard this message as your name will be moved to an "inactive participant" list at the end of the clean-up. If you are still active with the WikiProject, please be sure to include your name on this list. The deadline to add your name to the list (if you are still active) is November 1, 2012. This will be the last message sent out before the deadline which is in 2 days. Thank-you.--EdwardsBot

The GAN Newsletter (November 2012)[edit]

In This Issue

The WikiProject: Good Articles Newsletter (December 2012)[edit]

In This Issue


Although your MedCom request will probably be denied, you can request dispute resolution through Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. Feel free to try there if you feel that you need help. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 05:55, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. --Saukkomies talk 06:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The WikiProject: Good Articles Newsletter (January 2013)[edit]

In This Issue

This newsletter was delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 14:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Newsletter - February 2013[edit]

In This Issue

Good Article Nominations Request For Comment[edit]

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A 'Request For Comment' for Good Article Nominations is currently being held. We are asking that you please take five to ten minutes to review all seven proposals that will affect Good Article Nominations if approved. Full details of each proposal can be found here. Please comment on each proposal (or as many as you can) here.

At this time, Proposal 1, 3, and 5 have received full (or close to) support.

If you have questions of anything general (not related to one specif proposal), please leave a message under the General discussion thread.

Please note that Proposal 2 has been withdrawn and no further comments are needed. Also, please disregard Proposal 9 as it was never an actual proposal.

Archaeogenetics of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture[edit]

Hello, I wanted to apologise for single-handedly removing content from Archaeogenetics of the Cucuteni–Trypillian culture, but it was not relevant for the article (it may have been for the article(s) on the Neolithisation of (South-Eastern) Europe, Archaeogenetics of (South-Eastern) Europe, etc). I have re-reverted you, and added some pertinent info. I would appreciate if you could peruse it. Cheers! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

You don't "re-revert" like this. You basically stripped out the majority of the content of the article, much of which is relevant and contributes to the scholarship of the subject, and when the material is restored and you are asked to help improve the article and not destroy it, you don't get to just go back and "re-revert" your trashing. I'm now turning this over to administrators to deal with. --Saukkomies talk 15:09, 14 May 2013 (UTC)




Welcome back! Nice to see you are still alive and kicking :¬)

I will take a look later today.

Everything ok with you? Did you finish the renovations?

Chaosdruid (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Chaos. Everything is going well with me and my family. Just very busy right now teaching middle school. I appreciate you looking at this and providing your feedback on the matter. --Saukkomies talk 22:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Recruitment Centre[edit]

Good Article Recruitment - Completion Award.png
Hello! Now, some of you might be wondering why there is a Good article icon with a bunch of stars around (to the right). The answer? WikiProject Good articles will be launching a Recruitment Centre very soon! The centre will allow all users to be taught how to review Good article nominations by experts just like you! However, in order for the Recruitment Centre to open in the first place, we need some volunteers:
  • Recruiters: The main task of a recruiter is to teach users that have never reviewed a Good article nomination how to review one. To become a recruiter, all you have to do is meet this criteria. If we don't get at least 5-10 recruiters to start off with, the Recruitment Centre will not open. If interested, make sure you meet the criteria, read the process and add your name to the list of recruiters. (One of the great things about being a recruiter is that there is no set requirement of what must be taught and when. Instead, all the content found in the process section is a guideline of the main points that should be addressed during a recruitment can also take an entire different approach if you wish!) If you think you will not have the time to recruit any users at this time but are still interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still add your name to the list of recruiters but just fill in the "Status" parameter with "Not Available".
  • Co-Director: The current Director for the centre is me (Dom497). Another user that would be willing to help with some of the tasks would be helpful. Tasks include making sure recruiters are doing what they should be (teaching!), making sure all recruitments are archived correctly, updating pages as needed, answering any questions, and distributing the feedback form. If interested, please contact me (Dom497).
  • Nominators, please read this: If you are not interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still help. In some cases a nominator may have an issue with an "inexperienced" editor (the recruitee) reviewing one of their nominations. To minimize the chances of this happening, if you are fine with a recruitee reviewing one of your nominations under the supervision of the recruiter, please add your name to the list at the bottom of this page. By adding your name to this list, chances are that your nomination will be reviewed more quickly as the recruitee will be asked to choose a nomination from the list of nominators that are OK with them reviewing the article.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to seeing this program bring new reviewers to the Good article community and all the positive things it will bring along.

A message will be sent out to all recruiters regarding the date when the Recruitment Centre will open when it is determined. The message will also contain some further details to clarify things that may be a bit confusing.--Dom497 (talk)

This message was sent out by --EdwardsBot (talk) 01:23, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Vital Articles[edit]

To all editors displaying the "Vital Articles" template on their User Page.


I recently tried to make a change to the list of Level 3 Vital Articles by replacing the entry

" [[Comparison of the imperial and US customary measurement systems|Imperial and US customary measurement systems]]"

with a new replacement article

" [[Imperial and US customary measurement systems]]".

Although I have advertised the proposed change on Wikipedia talk:Vital articles, I had no response and an anonymous IP editor took it upon himself to undo my changes on grounds that my proposal did not have a "strong consensus".

Will you please look at the discussion Wikipedia talk:Vital articles#Replacement article: Imperial and US customary measurement systems and add your opinion.

Martinvl (talk) 20:27, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK RfC[edit]

  • As a listed GA participant, you are invited to contribute to a formal Request for Comment on the question of whether Good Articles should be eligible to appear in the Did You Know? slot in future. Please see the proposal on its subpage here, or on the main DYK talk page. To add the discussion to your watchlist, click this link. Thank you in advance. Gilderien Chat|Contributions03:13, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

GAN December 2013 Backlog Drive[edit]

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Hello! A GAN Backlog Drive will begin in less than 4 days!

In past Backlog Drives, the goal was to reduce the backlog of Good article nominations. In the upcoming drive, another goal will be added - raising as much money as we can for the Wikimedia Foundation. How will this work? Well, its pretty simple. Any user interested in donating can submit a pledge at the Backlog Drive page (linked above). The pledge should mention the amount of money the user is willing to donate per review. For example, if a user pledges 5 cents per review and 100 nominations are reviewed, the total donation amount is $5.00.

At the time this message was sent out, two users have submitted pledges for a total of 8 cents per review. All pledges, no matter how much money, are greatly appreciated. Also, in no way is this saying you must make a pledge.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or leave a message on the Backlog Drive talk page. And remember, there are less than 4 days before the drive starts!--EdwardsBot (talk) 03:17, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

GAN December 2013 Backlog Drive[edit]

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Hello! Just a friendly reminder that the GAN Backlog Drive has begun and will end on December 31, 2013!

If you know anyone outside of the WikiProject that may be interested, feel free to invite them to the drive!

If you have any questions or want to comment about something regarding the drive, post them here--EdwardsBot (talk) 00:10, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

March 2014 GAN Backlog Drive[edit]

It's that time again! Starting on March 1, there will be another GAN Backlog Drive! There will be several changes compared to previous drives:

  • This drive will introduce a new component to it; a point system. In a nutshell, older nominations are worth more points than newer nominations. The top 3 participants who have the points will be awarded the Golden, Silver, or Bronze Wikipedia Puzzle Piece Trophy, respectively.
  • Unlike the December 2013 Backlog Drive, earning an additional barnstar if you reached your goal has been removed.
  • The allowance to have insufficient reviews has been lowered to 2 before being disqualified.
  • An exception to the rule that all reviews must be completed before the deadline has been created.

Also, something that I thought I would share with all of you is that we raised $20.88 (USD) for the WMF in the December 2013 drive. It may not sound like a lot but considering that that was raised just because we reviewed articles, I would say that's pretty good! With that success, pledges can be made for the upcoming drive if you wish.

More info regarding the drive and full descriptions regarding the changes to this drive can be found on the the drive page. If you have any questions, feel free to leave a message on the drive talk page.

I look forward to your participation and hope that because of it, some day the backlog will be gone!


--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

GAN March 2014 Backlog Drive[edit]

The March 2014 GAN Backlog Drive has begun and will end on April 1, 2014! Sent by Dom497 on behalf of MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Good articles Future GAN Backlog Drive[edit]

Hello everyone! Hope you've all been having a great summer!

TheQ Editor recently proposed the idea of having another Backlog Drive in either September/October or November/December of this year. For those of you who have participated in the past two drives you know I was the one who organized them, however, come September, this will be my most important year in school so I will not be able to coordinate this drive (if it happens). TheQ Editor has volunteered to be a coordinator for the drive. If any of you would like to co-coordinator, please notify TheQ Editor on his talk page.

If you would be interested in participating in a Backlog Drive sometime before the end of this year, please notify TheQ Editor. Also, make sure to specify what month(s) work best for you.

At the time this message was sent out, the backlog was at 520 nominations. Since May, the backlog has been steadily increasing and we are currently near an all time high. Even though the backlog will not disappear over one drive, this drive can lead to several others which will (hopefully) lead to the day where there is no longer a backlog.

As always, the more participants, the better, and everyone is encouraged to participate!

Sent by Dom497--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:52, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

GA Cup[edit]

Hello everyone! We hope you have all been having a great summer!

As we all know, the recent GAN Backlog Drives have not had any big impact on the backlog. Because of that, me (Dom497), Figureskatingfan, and TheQ Editor have worked on an idea that could possibly finally put a dent into the massive backlog. Now, I will admit, the idea isn't entirely ours as we have took the general idea of the WikiCup and brought it over to WikiProject Good Articles. But anyways, here's what we have in mind:

For all of you that do not know what the WikiCup is, it is an annual competition between several editors to see who can get the most Good Articles, Featured Article's, Did You Know's, etc. Based of this, we propose to you the GA Cup. This competition will only focus on reviewing Good articles.

For more info on the proposal, click here. As a FYI, the proposal page is not what the final product will look like (if you do go ahead with this idea). It will look very similar to WikiCup's page(s).

The discussion for the proposal will take place here. Please let us know if you are interested, have any concerns, things to consider, etc.

--Dom497, Figureskatingfan, and TheQ Editor

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:29, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles - GA Cup[edit]

WikiProject Good Articles's 2014-15 GA Cup
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WikiProject Good articles is holding a new competition, the GA Cup, from October 1, 2014 - March 28, 2015. The Cup will be based on reviewing Good article nominations; for each review, points will be awarded with bonuses for older nominations, longer articles and comprehensive reviews. All participants will start off in one group and the highest scoring participants will go through to the second round. At the moment six rounds are planned, but this may change based on participant numbers.

Some of you may ask: what is the purpose for a competition of this type? Currently, there is a backlog of about 500 unreviewed Good article nominations, almost an all time high. It is our hope that we can decrease the backlog in a fun way, through friendly competition.

Everyone is welcome to join; new and old editors! Sign-ups will be open until October 15, 2014 so sign-up now!

If you have any questions, take a look at the FAQ page and/or contact one of the four judges.

Cheers from NickGibson3900, Dom497, TheQ Editor and Figureskatingfan.

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:04, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

To receive future GA Cup newsletter, please add your name to our mailing list.