User talk:Sean.hoyland

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Khirbet 'Ein Karzaliyah (Arabic: خربة عين كرزلية‎), Jordan Valley: December 2013 - January 2014

Id'eis (Arabic: ادعيس‎), Jordan Valley: May 2014

Help + Co-op requested: Human Shield

Dear Sean.hoyland,

you reverted my edits to the article human shield:

"looks like Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis. +the content violates numerous policies/guidelines. it needs to be completely rewritten/re-sourced before restoration +it's a blatant WP:NOTADVOCATE violation triggered by Protective Edge Op."

Would you please co-operate with me, because I believe, that not all informations added by me deserved this razor revert.

Could we co-operate and make a version, that would fit to your/wikipedia standards, because, it might be, that, while I am editing a very lot since wikipedia's beginnings, did not came up to the standards developed by the wikipedia comm..

What I would go like for is something like this: The int. comm. regards the use of human shields and the use of indiscriminate warfare like qassam rockets and suicide bombers as illegal under int. law. Hamas and some Palestinians deny this. -- based on quality sources that are available.

Please let us co-operate on this; I did invite the second reverter Binksternet also.

Sincerely, -- (talk) 10:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


Hi, I thought the loonies have had enough fun now, so I semi-protected this page. Please ask for it to be removed if you don't want that. Zerotalk 12:31, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png Given what you put up with today, you probably could use something stronger. Thanks for the AN/I on this guy. Jim1138 (talk) 00:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks but editors like this don't bother me at all. I actually prefer his honest WP:NOTADVOCATE violations on behalf of Israel and openly expressed hatred over the far more common insincere wikilawyering approach to nationalist advocacy in WP:ARBPIA. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps if someone were to say to Jeremy: "If I need a good reason to hate Israel, I'll just look to you". Or something to that effect. Maybe that would jog his sensibilities... Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 08:17, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
He's certainly not doing Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the various online efforts to improve Israel's image with the public any favors, that's for sure. It's probably too late for Jeremy, bless him. I guess if he really cared he would have already moved to Israel or a settlement in the West Bank and joined the IDF, so I assume it's just something he does for entertainment. Tilting at windmills from the comfort of his mum's house when he started this as a teenager doesn't seem too bad, but he's a bit too old now surely ? It's been ten years. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:55, 22 July 2014 (UTC)


Sean, could you please take a look at User talk:, where I've posted two messages and 81*143 posted ‎his response (above my messages). Is the response posted by 81*143 correct? What is the consensus in WP:ARBPIA on the use of 'militant' vs. 'terrorist'? Thanks, IjonTichy (talk) 01:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

No, they're wrong (and editors will usually get it wrong if they try to derive rules from the current state of Wikipedia articles rather than policy and guidelines). Editors in WP:ARBPIA, just like everywhere else, need to follow WP:LABEL. It's completely inappropriate to use Wikipedia's neutral unattributed narrative voice to refer to Palestinian armed groups as terrorists or their actions as terrorism. I guess the IP, given their location, may find this difficult to understand or accept but there is zero chance that their edits will stand. Edits like that will always be fixed by someone at some point because they violate NPOV. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:45, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Sean. IjonTichy (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Your message to me

Sean, Thanks for your comment. Can you please clarify what exactly I did wrong in your opinion ? I know that I messed up the heading level putting july 24 on par with weeks 1,2,3 - I already fixed this. If it's about citing the source - I don't see any information about that at WP:LABEL. Thanks, WarKosign (talk) 08:59, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I was probably a bit vague. Wikipedia's unattributed neutral narrative voice shouldn't be used to refer to the armed groups in Gaza as terrorists. You can change it to militants or attribute the term terrorist directly to the IDF and use quotes. For source citations, they need all the details, not just the URL. Look at other citations in the article to get the idea. The Wikipedia:RefToolbar makes it easy to fill in details. Citations should look something like this <ref name=i20140723>{{cite news|title=Israel-Gaza conflict: Israel may have committed war crimes, says UN's human rights chief|url=|publisher=The Independent|date=23 July 2014}}</ref> Sean.hoyland - talk 09:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)