This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Could you please explain why you deleted all the references from Sankethi people please? Thanks. --Joshua Issac (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The article needs independent reliable sources. Caste associations etc are only reliable for information about themselves (ie: about the association). - Sitush (talk) 21:16, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Association websites are not included in Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published sources, which specifically states "personal" websites to be in the list of sources considered to be a self-published. There is no justification in policy or guideline for the removal of a reference just because it is published by a cultural association. And what about the deletion of the reference to Dr Rajeswari Chatterjee's book, part of a project by the University of Nevada? --Joshua Issac (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a consensus that association websites published by ethnic groups etc in India/Pakistan are unreliable. They're usually prone to puffery and cherry-picking and, for example, where did the population figure of 50,000 come from? Such websites are usually no more useful than other Wikipedia articles on those groups and, of course, those Wikipedia articles are generally rubbish. I'll take a look again at the Chatterjee book. I wonder if there is anything at Ethnologue also? - Sitush (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
My reason for removing the Chatterjee thing was "remove: it was only added 2 days ago and is already dead". Although unsaid, it seemed likely to me that the deadlink was also to a copyright violation rather like the frequently-seen links to copyvios hosted by scribd.com or on YouTube. There was no mention of the University of Nevada. Feel free to reinstate the thing if you can resolve the issues. - Sitush (talk) 10:35, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
It turns out that the url included some hidden characters after the ".pdf". I removed them in the address bar of my browser & the thing did indeed then work. I've reinstated the book with the revised url. - Sitush (talk) 10:56, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Christmas
Did you like your Christmas present? It's not like my feelings were hurt or anything, but I was hoping to get one from you as well. (I know that we said we wouldn't be exchanging gifts, cuz of the whole atheist jew thing, but I couldn't help feeling a bit glum.) Steeletrap (talk) 23:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll be honest: with one exception, I've pretty much ignored any Christmas-related wikiloves etc. No need to feel left out, I guess, but you're aware that I don't have much enthusiasm for the idea generally. I'm not even sure why I replied to the one but vaguely recall some sort of opportunity for a poor stab at witticism - I'm not looking back up the page to find it. I do let people know that they are appreciated here etc but not because of some seasonal thing. Perhaps that makes me a grump.
OTOH, the season in part part the reason why I got the chance to meet my great-nephew for the first time today - he's a couple of months old but distance and my health have got in the way. Meeting him is something that I can get emotional about, in an oh so stiff upper-lip, British sort of way. Unfortunately for him, he seems to have inherited more of the looks from my side of the family than his father's ;) I gave him a lecture on reliable sources etc, of course, but only in a mammary context and I didn't bother with WP:V because that might involve explaining DNA tests. He's a gradely chap, as they say in Yorkshire and I can't deny that the sort-of primeval family instinct is alive and well in me! - Sitush (talk) 01:00, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I didn't actually get you a present -- wiki or otherwise -- and was basically just being silly in hopes of getting your attention *blush*. I am skeptical of the existence of Santa ("Father Christmas", to use your fancy-pantsy British term), though concede the evidence here is stronger than the virgin birth thing -- I personally think Mary did it with the Angel who 'visited' her, as anyone would have, because *duh* it's an Angel.
I digress. But I must say that hearing the thing about your great-nephew was incredibly touching and genuine. Some of the most genuinely human and decent stuff I've seen on WP. Steeletrap (talk) 03:30, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Khatri
It seems that there is a consensus on the revision of the page which was undone. I see from the talk history that there are some people indulging in derogatory remarks on the page. Their views are counterproductive and should not be accounted for under the category of "consensus". I am not sure anyone involved on that page is a historian, be it others or the Wikipedia admin. We need to resolve this and your positive contribution will be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indianuser11 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
There is no rush. It is the holiday season in many parts of the world and the information has been in the article for a long time. Qwyrxian thought it was a reliable source and we should await their reconsideration. - Sitush (talk) 17:23, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The caste thing
There are sanctions for articles relating to caste right? And your dog has not moved since I last posted here, take it to the vet. Darkness Shines (talk) 22:50, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
WP:GS/Caste. Gyp has been to the vet recently: abscess on his arse courtesy of an insect deep in the long grass. That's the grass he used not to be able to go in until he grew out of his hayfever - it's a weird world. - Sitush (talk) 00:37, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Cheers, is there an article template for them? One I am working on will, I suspect, have people causing all manner of shite. I did not think it possible that a dog could get hay fever, funny old world indeed . You can yank those bugs out easily enough BTW, although from the arse perhaps the vet was a good shout, coulda been messy. Happy new year for when it arrives. Darkness Shines (talk) 00:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I didn't even realise he'd been caught until several days later, by which time it was too late - the culprit had long gone. There are a couple of templates - {{uw-castewarning}} and {{castewarningtalk}}. - Sitush (talk) 00:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
AAP Broom symbol
I have gone through the discussion. The previous discussion was based on image "sourced" from AAP website. This image I am adding is self made (like many other party symbols I have made and put on wikimedia). I have not put any copyright restrictions on the image as mentioned earlier the way I did for all symbols. I think no WP policy restricts self made images to be put on articles for encyclopedic purposes. --GPPande 17:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I see. In that case, why bother? As was explained at WP:NFCR, the ECI image was not of any old brook but a specific one. We all know what a broom looks like but the point of the ECI symbol was to provide a standardised visual context for illiterate people. There is absolutely no point in making up your own and the text already says that a broom symbol was used. Basically, you seem to be using the article as some sort of personal colouring book here. - Sitush (talk) 17:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I am not using WP as my coloring book. I am only putting relevant material on the article. I came here to talk to you trying to explain the reasoning behind such symbols and logos of political parties which provide encyclopedic values. I never wanted the discussion to come at personal level. Sad you just did it. Also its just not Indian political parties but all over world pages of political parties carry the logo/symbol. I am putting the image back on article. --GPPande 18:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
@Gppande:, if you do reinstate then you will be edit warring and using original research. That will get you blocked if you are not careful because you have no consensus for your addition. - Sitush (talk) 18:31, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion
Hello, Sitush. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you..
Hello, list of kammas : those clans are kammas,, their descendents also there. All historians, books, .. Even indian government cencus record also tells that.. I saw those refs and put that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.39.185.15 (talk) 01:19, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
That's fine provided that you actually cite some reliable sources to provide verifiability of the statements. Caste affiliations are a notoriously difficult area of Wikipedia and thus you should assume that a source is required rather than that it does not need verification. - Sitush (talk) 10:45, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
so, what type of source i want to put? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.37.225.59 (talk) 13:10, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi, I don't think we've ever really interacted much but I've seen a lot of what you have said over the last few years at ANI and other such noticeboards and I'd be astonished if you haven't waded through some of my crap also. Hopefully, we can keep avoiding each other because, frankly, your latest comments regarding the 28bytes farrago merely reinforce my opinion that you really are "up yourself", as we say in the UK.
I've got a lot of time for Salvio and a lot of time for 28bytes but I don't think I've ever come across someone with your level of experience on Wikipedia who is so willing to cast stones regardless of glass houses and to take some moral high ground seemingly at the drop of a hat, if you'll forgive a shedload of mixed metaphors. I'm sure that you mean well but, boy, I'm glad that we stay apart. Why is it that some people are so eager to get involved in meta issues while the vast majority carry on carrying on, building the encyclopaedia? Of course, meta issues are a part of the whole but can you honestly say that you are "clean" of things such as COI? I'm not, having edited Sedgley Park RUFC and Whitefield, Greater Manchester, for example. I am sure that you mean well but perhaps you should stand for ArbCom next year and put your money where your mouth is? - Sitush (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Don't believe everything you read about me. I stood for ArbCom twice and failed. So, I've been there and done that. At this point I don't have the time to do that job. Go ask the people I work with regularly, and you'll find that I get along pretty well. I also get along with most of the old timers. JehochmanTalk 01:27, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I've no idea why you moved this here but hey-ho. I haven't read anything about you other than the replies of some people to your posts. I've not been influenced by those and otherwise have only read stuff that you've said. Deflecting this on to other people isn't really a response, although I appreciate that you've tried. How it reflects on the judgement of the "old-timers" is anyone's guess.
Perhaps I've got it wrong and perhaps I am completely misreading your policing comments at various forums but you seem to insert yourself into all sorts of behaviour-related threads and pass judgement thereon. Maybe that is the role of a roving admin but sometimes, as now, it seems close to self-righteous harassment. I was vaguely aware that you'd stood for ArbCom before but my query was related to standing again in 2014, which is 12 months away. I appreciate that you may still be too busy then but it is worth a thought: I've always had the impression that it is the old-timers who mostly participate in the voting, along with a few bearing grudges, so it might be a case of third time lucky. - Sitush (talk) 08:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't want to host this discussion, but I am willing to answer your questions. Arbcom is a serious commitment. People should not run just because they can or because winning is viewed as an honor. The job is stressful and often unpleasant. It takes a lot of time. I have four kids and very substantial work responsibilities. I don't have time to do the job properly. Wikipedia is a hobby for me, not a second job.
A few bearing grudges? I'd have a lot more. Wikipedia generates many persistent disputes and problems: nationalist edit warriors, pseudoscience cranks, prolific sock puppeteers, cult activists, insane stalkers, child molesters. When such a person bothers a content creator, somebody like me has to step in and protect the content creator. I get a lot of thanks, usually quietly by email, sometimes a barnstar. That's why I like my Wikipedia hobby, and don't care for the political side of it. JehochmanTalk 12:25, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I see that you are still acting like some sort of super-cop. You've just closed a thread at WP:AN where you were a million miles from being uninvolved. That is the sort of behaviour that winds people up. No wonder I'm getting emails about you since I posted on your talk page. - Sitush (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Arbitrary heading
Hi Sitush,
This is in response to the changes that you have made on the article on Jaggi Vasudev.
Actually I had provided a number of citations, including newspaper links for the edit on the article on Jaggi Vasudev that I had made. I had added it to make the article appear more neutral. Hence, please revert the changes. Notthebestusername (talk) 02:07, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Wanting to achieve neutrality is fine but you cannot use poor Wordpress etc sources to do so. Not even if the man was dead, which he isn't. Please review WP:RS and WP:BLP. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 03:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
ANI (what a twist!)
Yo Sitush, just letting you know that the IAC IP started a thread at ANI, asking for someone else to start a DRN request or something. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 14:41, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
First off, your mention of me there is irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Second, I have no history of encourage Miles to violate policy. I gave him a barnstar for improvement and believe it or not, he is much improved from where he was several months back (when I repeatedly admonished him to cut out various contentious behaviors.) At any rate, I'm asking you again to remove your misrepresentation of me, which is a personal attack. Let's not make this a bigger issue/waste of time than it need be. PA is unacceptable. Thanks. SPECIFICOtalk 04:45, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
SPECIFICO, I would have to agree with Sitush on this matter. In light if the fact that MilesMoney seems generally aligned with yours and Steeletrap POV, then the best way to keep an ally around is to not reward bad behavior.--MONGO 04:50, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Young Miles needs more encouragement. He is under a lot of pressure here by the constant threats of bans. Steeletrap (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi there Sitush. Remember when you got your panties all in a wad over poor @Carolmooredc:'s use of the "involved" "uninvolved" format on a Noticeboard thread? I guess nobody could recall the link to where that's suggested as an editor's prerogative. Here's the link for your reference: [2] Cheers. SPECIFICOtalk 22:54, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
I think that you have perhaps misunderstood the issues. Nobody with experience needed the link because the way things work was and is self-evident. Hence, the CMDC method was rejected at the RSN talk page etc. I always did acknowledge that there were a few situations where alternate sections layouts apply, the most notable (and confusing, IMO) being ArbCom-related discussions.
You'll be aware that even now CMDC is finding ways to emphasise her contributions in discussions, with innovative use of {{od}}, bolding, initiation of new sections for existing discussions etc. She should get a bollocking for it and probably will, one day, because it raises the drama that she seems to specialise in via her persistent-ish off-topic commentary on user behaviours etc. - Sitush (talk) 04:07, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Rant
I've never voted in a real life election. The thing about people here who criticise the controlling and censorious nature of right-wing POV pushers is that they're often as controlling and censorious from a left-wing perspective. TPG needs to be revised, I think, when they are able to use it to censor valid remarks and stifle discussion. - Sitush (talk) 23:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
If this is intended for public consumption, I'll point out that it's remarkably opaque and it is unclear, at least to me, to what or to whom this refers. SPECIFICOtalk 00:10, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Your own obtuseness is well-known, so I suppose I should forgive you for not being able to add 2 to 2. Mine is a general comment borne of a specific circumstance. You would appear to have the specific talk page on your watchlist, given your many timely involvements there. But just in case you do not - User talk:MilesMoney. They're not the only one, however, hence the generality. - Sitush (talk) 00:14, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I'd be unsurprised to find SPECIFICO, MilesMoney and a couple of the others were all the same person, operating a comprehensive sockfarm. No point filing an SPI, since that's already been proven to be a waste of time, but... Lukeno94(tell Luke off here) 00:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
They're not socks but they do have many of the characteristics of a tag-team. - Sitush (talk) 00:19, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Oh, they're definitely a tag-team, there's little question about that. Lukeno94(tell Luke off here) 00:26, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Sadly Sitush, even tired old men and bitter has-beens need to dumb it down in order to communicate effectively with the up-and-coming generation of leaders who frequent WP and read various pages here. It's indeed burdensome, but the alternative is insignificance. SPECIFICOtalk 00:46, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
At sambandam
[ambedkar.org ] is a unreliable source just like boloji.. Anyone can write on it, they publish all emails as articles. That's why removed, it's okay? Bladesmulti (talk) 19:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
All ambedkar.org are doing in this instance is reproducing the primary document. It was used as a source for something or another & your removal of it from the bibliography meant that we had a hanging citation in the refs section. That is, a citation that pointed to a now non-existent source. I'll take another look at whether the cite was itself valid but since I'm fairly sure I added it in the first place, I'm probably not the most neutral of reviewers! If you know of another place where the document can be found then we can substitute it.
I've had to revert quite a few of your removals lately, simply because I don't understand why you were doing those things. You really should probably try to use edit summaries more often. - Sitush (talk) 19:09, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, you were referring to Sambandham & I'd got Bhopal Conference in my head. The sambandham article is very poor but, again, if all ambedkar.org are doing is reproducing a book then they're as good a repository as any other. Provided that the reproduction does not fall foul of copyright laws etc. - Sitush (talk) 19:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Well.. Even some youtube pages/videos are detailed well, even facebook, but doesn't means they can be used. [3] "SITE MAY BE HACKED", it's a dangerous link after all, keeps getting hacked and changed too, I can rather go back and replace sources, it's alright? Bladesmulti (talk) 19:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see where you are coming from now. I'm afraid that WP:RS is slightly more complicated than "anything published by X is unsuitable". If you look at the explanatory notes at WP:RSN then you'll see how it really does depend on context. YouTube is not inherently unreliable, for example, but links to it are often inappropriate (see, for example, WP:YT). By the way, the ambedkar.org links are working for me, without any notice of them being an attack page etc.
By all means, if you can find the original of a source that is being hosted on ambedkar.org then you should usually replace the link. You should also remove any such links to ambedkar.org where it is obvious that they are reproducing copyrighted material without permission. However, I've never come across an instance where they have done that - the most common culprit in the India sphere is a North America-based caste association. - Sitush (talk) 19:24, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
The "hacked" results that you refer to seem mostly related to spamming for viagra etc. That is unfortunate but it does not seem to be impacting on the specific pages that you have been removing. It just makes it more important that we try to find alternate hosts for the content that we wish to cite. - Sitush (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, copied it from other books, found it, added them. Bladesmulti (talk) 19:33, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Fate of unsourced edits
Thanks for leaving a message on my talkpage. I accept that an open-wiki may not be a reliable source of information but I generally check the coherence of information before making edits to Wikipedia. I further saw that you have removed much of unsourced information from articles including Mor clan. I would like to point that this might not be the right thing to do. Check WP:A for further the elaboration on attribution. There is a difference between not yet sourced and unattributable. The behaviour can be different for contentious material about living persons, but this is often not the case. Please limit removal only to materials likely to be challenged or ones which lack coherence to other sourced information. You can do more harm than good to Wikipedia by your good faith reverting of unsourced information even if it lies unsourced for too long. DiptanshuTalk 21:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Addendum: If you feel that an unsourced information is disruptive, wrong or misleading1 you should definitely remove the material but not if it is not. In case you do, be sure to mention in the edit summary as why it is supposed to be disruptive or wrong. DiptanshuTalk 21:33, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I've reverted you. There is absolutely no reason to link to that open wiki, and why would we add a reference within a reference? I will also say that material that is unsourced "for far too long" can be removed and often should be. Dougweller (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I've left a note on your talk page, Diptanshu.D - it seems that there may possibly be a wider issue. - Sitush (talk) 01:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi, just realised that many sections in Vadavannur page has been deleted. Can you let us know on what basis its been deleted? I am from this village and me along with my friends have painstakingly collected information and it being deleted with out any reason is quite disappointing.
Rgrds,
Dinkar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dinkar1984 (talk • contribs) 07:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
@Dinkar1984:, articles about villages in India tend to be troublesome. They are rarely sourced adequately and they are usually puffery (almost all of them are, apparently, "beautiful", for example). They often also contain trivia items, such as lists of non-notable people and of banks.
There is a bit of a clean-up going on and your village is just one of many in Palakkad district that has hit the radar recently, simply because I've been trying to sort out the gram panchayats for that area. You're welcome to improve it further but please try to bear the above points in mind. - Sitush (talk) 08:04, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Dont understand where is the puffery part in the page?. Its factual and if you see the history of the page many people have contributed to this and i personally have weeded out certain information which is not factual.Now can you pls define what you think is a credible source? The objective of this page (from our end) is to educate the huge diaspora of people having roots in vadavannur.And coming back to the puffery part why havent you deleted the photographs uploaded by me what credible source determines that its vadavannur only?.
Secondly, After your editing can i know what would be the information that you are going to add onto this page.
I do appreciate your effort being put in but blatant use without knowing the details is not the way forward.
Rgrds,
Dinkar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.126.99 (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi Sitush, Can i have a reply to the above?
Rgrds,
Dinkar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.126.99 (talk) 04:37, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Rajpurohit
Hello Sitush,
I've provided links to 3 websites. I'm taking care of the social media for my temple, and community. Kindly understand and cooperate, Just read the previous users information, and my information. You will get a clear picture. Thanks again — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajpurohit-Veer (talk • contribs) 02:33, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
@Rajpurohit-Veer: Wikipedia is not a social network & I see no evidence of your authority to speak for the Rajpurohit community, nor would it be valid here even if it existed. Please do not add that self-published information again without taking into account the points that I raised on your talk page. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Are you editing under two different names. This effort suggests that you might be. - Sitush (talk) 09:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Sati practice
The Mishra's source wasn't clearly misrepresented, neither it can be used if needed. You checked it properly? See the talk page. And BTW, i doubt if the user Canto has anything good for adding, all the user seems to me is demanding for changes on the page, instead of contributing, while himself being a Single purpose account, hardly 2 days old. OccultZone (talk) 15:53, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Other than that, the actual/alternate name for Sati is "atma- tydga", there are sources about it as well, got one for it. OccultZone (talk) 15:48, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
It can be backed by multiple sources... "..despite the texts which have just been referred to, the preponderance of the dharmashastra literature weighs in on the side of the judgment that sati is wrong in any situation. So, this scholar insists that 'The authors of the shastras forbid this system and said that it is a sin like suicide." Read "The Legacy of Women's Uplift in India", Page 79, [4](last paragraph to first few paragraphs of next page). Also this book, [5], it's related text can be read from here about prohibition of sati:-
If we look further, we would know that the reformers had further argued that none of the scripture promotes or sanction this practice, in fact, it forbids them. For example some Raja Ram mohan roy, can be read from here [6], [7], which I think, is added to the article as well, the sentence "Hindu texts forbids its practice" is just a part of Lead...
For now you should revert back to your own edit, i don't know if the last edit by user Darknessshines was automated or something, as he quickly responds on his talk page, yet he still hasn't. And the current version is obviously POV pushing, removes many other undiscussed reliable sources, and information.
You can tell me here, and write talk page of Sati too, the above one was copy+pasted only for your notification. OccultZone (talk) 16:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't need to see it here, thanks. - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Personal attacks
Sitush, I am forced to write this since you have once again resorted to leaving rude comments on the Wikipedia. You have said "Bikramjit, please, leave this page alone". This page means the one on my father, Barun De. Let me tell you, no, I will not leave it alone. Not until you, who didn't know my father at all well, leave it alone yourself. But not before undoing the damage that you have already done. I repeat this page was started by me, and I reserve every right to edit it. You may not. Secondly, you are taking the name of a person you do not know, or do not have sufficient evidence of having left any comment on the Wikipedia. Please, do not do that again. And thirdly, do not show me the rules and policies of Wikipedia, because you are who is breaking them. Citing the birth date and death date is not a must. It is not seen on all the pages. Clearly, you are inserting your own imagined rules and policies.117.194.243.181 (talk) 09:54, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Bikramjit, you really do need to stop repeatedly editing while logged out, otherwise you'll find yourself unable to contribute at all. Umpteen people have tried to accommodate your concerns regarding the article about your late father and those about other relatives. Despite this, you still meddle and you still do not understand the concept of Wikipedia. You are an intelligent man but I am at a loss regarding how else the issues can be explained to you. In particular, I seem to recall you saying that you are an academic in the legal sphere and yet you seem unable to understand even the basics of Wikipedia's licensing mechanisms which are, basically, that once you put something out there on this project, it is no longer your property. You didn't even seem to understand copyright, which I found to be staggering.
You've been advised on several occasions that you have a substantial conflict of interest and (alas) practically no apparent aptitude for editing within the scope of our policies. Those situations remain the same today as they were six months or so ago and I'd strongly advise you to limit your efforts to the article talk pages. By agreement, given the then recent nature of your father's death, we removed its cause when you claimed to be distressed by it. That demonstrated we are not inhuman and that people with conflicts of interest do have a voice. Although that cause will end up back in the article at some point as it was scarcely one that might cause embarrassment and time is a great healer. - Sitush (talk) 04:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Sitush: It's been four days since you left this for me to read. I haven't had the energy to go through it. I believe what you are writing isn't making much sense. There is little or no point in explaining a matter to you, since you will not make any attempt to understand what I am suggesting should be done with this article. Ideally, please speak for yourself, not for the other editors. Clearly, you have a lot of time to spend on the internet editing and misappropriating articles on people you don't or didn't know. If there are people who do not log in to edit, then there are others, such as yourself, who refuse to reveal their full identity, editing from behind a veil. I don't think that should be the policy of the wikipedia. I cannot stop you from damaging this particular article, but please, do not worry about time being the healer, or illnesses being embarrassments. Family members of the deceased do not have to reveal their family details to anonymous editors on the internet. But what does seem odd is your preoccupation with this article. You seem to have made it your business to protect your edits on this page without even knowing or knowing well the person on whom the article is written.14.139.214.178 (talk) 08:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Request for intervention
The contents of the articles, Karuneegar and Seer Karuneegar, are in gross violation of WP:RS, and an IP contributor is engaged in edit war. I would like to request you to intervene, if required. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 09:16, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
I added a message to their talk page. With an IP editor, they may or may not know where to find edit summaries. After your second revert, you should also have left them a message on their talk page. If they look are or care about the message, that is a different story. Bgwhite (talk) 09:40, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Bgwhite. Yes, I should have left a message. Ekdalian (talk) 09:52, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
FYI
Dear Sitush, best wishes for 2014. Can you comment here? Thanks. Solomon7968 15:40, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Varnas
Hi Sitush,
Regarding your revokes: What is the point you are trying to make by removing the 'actual' source of record for varna system and Also removing the already existing
-'chatur varna' and chan
-changing numbered sequence to un numbered as bullet points?
thanks,
Chitrada
ThinkBig 15:06, 1 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chitrada (talk • contribs)
We avoid primary sources where possible because they are often open to interpretation. This is particularly true of religious texts and Indian epic stories. If you want another source for the statement then take a look at Bayly, Susan (2001). Caste, Society and Politics in India. Cambridge University Press. pp. 8–9. ISBN9780521798426.. But please note that there is rarely need to cite something in a lead section if it is cited already in the body of the article. I couldn't find a source for the "chutur varna" bit in the short time that I had available but in any event almost all academic sources refer to it simply as varna. - Sitush (talk) 15:13, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
When searched for "WP:NOR" and "WP:PRIMARY" redirects to Wikipedia:No original research or OR.
avoiding a original research is different than a direct statement that says about 'varna'. Ignoring it and citing some ones interpreation is not correct. How can one be sure of one's writer interpretatoin as the subject itself. Eg here a ::author cites "The Vaishyas" as "cattle herders" "agriculturists, artisans[1]. One can say that these can be come under this but equating is completely WRONG. Where as the original statement on varna clearly AVOIDS the equating to concrete ::professions instead states its based on Guna&Kharma and we need to ensure it NEVER mentioned the division is based on 'BIRTH' against the current practice.
So, Sitush, my point is not giving my own interpretation or contradicting a books outhor's view/statement. But giving only a authors view and hiding/burring the source gives a impression that Wiki authorizes, defines the authors view as ::the varna system itself, giving no scope for original statement. so, Its very important to mention the "Original Statement" for the actual source of information as is (not research) irrespective of the interpretation(s).ThinkBig 04:26, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Waiting for your reply for a while, so updating the question again. ::thank you, ::ThinkBig 17:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Since the pre-Afd discussion for the deletion of Tamil American, Tamil Australian, Kannada American & Bengali American wasn't able to attract responses from other wiki editors, could you please raise these articles at WT:INB and find out if there is any notability of the subjects? If not, could you please oversee the deletion of these articles? I'll be retiring from wiki within a couple of weeks. Thank you. Hari7478 (talk) 19:18, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
You have reverted me and TRPOD; you've hit 3RR and you need to stop. You could probably already be blocked if I chose to report it to WP:AN3. Reinstate the thing again and you will be. - Sitush (talk) 03:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
You've hit 3RR and need to stop. Everyking (talk) 04:17, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
I know, but you got there first by warring against two people. You're going to end up there first at Manish Sisodia also. Why are you doing this? Could you perhaps take a read of the documentation for {{as of}}? Your recent edit at the Jayalalithaa article, on the other hand, is a good one. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 04:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
OK. Well, if the articles still lack properly informative opening sentences tomorrow, then I'll fix them again tomorrow. Everyking (talk) 04:27, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
@Everyking: - you'll definitely be blocked then. You need to take a look at WP:EW. - Sitush (talk) 04:29, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
I was not "stalking" you, merely reviewing a few of your recent contributions to get an idea of what sort of editor you are. While doing so I noticed some article introductions that didn't seem sufficiently informative, and I made a small effort to help—and you reverted me every time. What's up with that? I also observe that you seem to be edit warring with quite a few different people across various articles, so I suggest that you approach editing in a less combative manner in the future. Everyking (talk) 05:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Just as I did not realise your longevity on Wikipedia, so too you misunderstand me. You'll not find a single instance where I've been accused and found "guilty" of edit warring. I operate mostly in a highly contentious area of the project that few people with experience are willing to involve themselves in on a regular basis ... but I've been hauled in front of every drama board that you can think of and have always received as near as dammit 100% support for my actions. Go figure. - Sitush (talk) 05:16, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
I'll endorse Sitush's comment about about his editing in a highly contentious area. It's one that very few good editors come near and full of nationalist editors and those pushing their own understanding of castes (is there a word 'castist'?), one of the messiest areas on the encyclopedia. Dougweller (talk) 06:50, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Spare me the threats and engage in discussion on the relevant talk pages, please. Everyking (talk) 12:01, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm not going to revert again on those pages. If I'm in the minority at that particular article, then I just have to accept that. That's just how it is. However, I continue to be baffled by the opposition to including this kind of key information, and I will continue to lobby for its inclusion if I see you removing it. Everyking (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I have been waiting for several days for someone to discuss the matter with me. After days of silence, I figured perhaps there was no further opposition. Imagine my surprise when I get immediately reverted! Isn't that something? Everyking (talk) 02:52, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
What'd ya reckon? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:38, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Request for mediation accepted
The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning India Against Corruption, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/India Against Corruption, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.
As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.
Hi, I will be mediating this case. Would you be able to sign in on the project talk page? Sunray (talk) 06:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Arbitration request
I see you commented previously about there being a need for an ArbCom case covering the Austrian Economics dispute. There is presently a request for such a case if you are interested in giving your thoughts on the matter.--The Devil's Advocatetlk.cntrb. 22:30, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Removal of Citation message
Hi, in the section of page Boar, Boar#Mythology, it is asking citations for showing that Vishnu took avatar of Varaha, a boar. So i had already inserted book sources, but the citation message is still not removed for a substantial time since. Though this is small thing, but you can fix this and mention if the sources put are not reliable. Work2win (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
I mentioned your name in the ANI I filed, so I figured it would be appropriate to notify you. Ishdarian 03:21, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
A cup of coffee for you!
I wish you speedy recovery. Hope a cup of coffee will improve your health. Take rest. Rayabhari (talk) 07:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Arvind Kejriwal
I would like to edit the article Arvind Kejriwal, but you always revert my changes. You do not appear interested in discussing the matter, as you have not commented on the talk page in two weeks. Something needs to change: you need to either engage in discussion on the talk page and explain your opposition to these changes or step aside and allow other editors to work on the article. Everyking (talk) 03:47, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
I am ill and on opiates. Didcyssion was had - you said nothibg new, were being trndentious and ignoring 2 other people, nit just me. When an admin doesn't undrestand consensus then I think you have something more important to address. Sitush (talk) 06:38, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm trying to work out a consensus, but I can't do that alone. Everyking (talk) 14:25, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The conernsus is stet. The only problem is you don't like it. Tough. - Sitush (talk) 14:48, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The consensus is that the introduction at present is perfect? I'm proposing improvements. Could I trouble you to head over to the talk page and weigh in? I'm sorry you're not feeling well, but if you're not well enough to engage in a discussion, you shouldn't be reverting people either. Everyking (talk) 03:09, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
Fuck off, Everyking. You know damn well what people have told you. - Sitush (talk) 17:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
This has been such a fine and productive discussion, and I feel my time has been invested well. But seriously, if you are going to revert people, you need to engage in discussion—by which I mean something very different than the assortment of insults, profanity and threats I've seen so far. Everyking (talk) 01:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
This edit misrepresents the guy as a longstanding politician, even though he has only served for a couple of months. All the editors at the article have reverted any sort of wording like this from Everyking, so Everyking should simply stand down. Binksternet (talk) 00:29, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
You act like that's the only version I proposed. I tried a shorter version of that, and then I suggested a version that left the existing opening sentence intact. Everyking (talk) 01:16, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Take it to the article's talk page. It's not about Sitush, it's about your wording. Binksternet (talk) 03:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I have. I've been waiting for weeks and no one has responded. Everyking (talk) 16:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
If article editors are reverting you but not talking to you then you should assume that your contribution has no consensus. Binksternet (talk) 17:28, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I haven't tried to implement my latest proposal, so no one has reverted it. I am trying to get input about it before going forward. Everyking (talk) 18:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I am editing the page to add more info about the person , I don't know what the issue is with ?? if you have any counter argument to my finding then show , I am giving the references for the same
Please don't delete unless you have any counter reference to my finding .
Help sought
Hope you are recovering from illness. Whenever you are free, can you guide me in following aspect?
User: Kswarrior has posted a warning in my talk page accusing me of disruptive edits to Aam Admi Party article, where I shortened some of his edits. The user boasts of 70+ edits in his user page. I am surprised by his rude warning. Kindly advise. -Rayabhari (talk) 17:12, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm on it--don't worry. Drmies (talk) 00:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
upload the display picture of Govinda(actor)
hi dear, it is my humble request for you to Please upload the display picture of Govinda(actor) on Wikipedia (Link is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govinda_%28actor%29). I have uploaded it so many times but every time some issue occurs regarding license or copyright. I don't know how to fix it or upload image successfully. You can find best pictures of Govinda here
So it would be much better if you upload either the pictures whose link i have given above of Govinda without any licensing/copyright issue or upload any best picture of Govinda
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanraj6 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
For Sitush
Hey old man, I hope you are getting better every day. We've had snow here so we got the day off and made delicious Svenska cardamom rolls (Bishonen-approved? who can tell) and had them with beers. Take care. Drmies (talk) 00:00, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
look like promotional page kindly edit this page Sujit_Meher
Meh--it's not so bad. You can tag it if you like, but I've seen much worse. Carry on, Drmies (talk) 00:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Your name was brought up
Hi Sitush, just a courtesy note that your name was brought up in a "help request" here. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 08:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
I have that watched, thanks, but I'll let others deal with it. I'm not in the mood to get involved with ranters at present. - Sitush (talk) 11:02, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
Indian Civil Service
Sitush, thank you for your note on my talk page. My edit summary was clearly wrong, so I must apologize for it. I had occasionally seen references to the "Imperial Civil Service" and had always thought (wrongly) that the term was so rare that it must be a misinterpretation of the acronym "ICS". Even so, I should not have suggested that someone had invented it without checking.
I still do not think the present page should be at Imperial Civil Service, so long as it covers the whole period up to 1947. We have only to look at the huge number of links to Indian Civil Service, all of which seem to be looking for the ICS before partition, or to check what name is used in jstor articles, to realize that "Indian Civil Service" is the common name for what the page deals with, so in my view there is no need to find a different name (even one which is strictly correct for part of the period) for the avoidance of confusion. As you will know, the present-day civil service in India is the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) within the Civil Services of India (CSI).
Let me say sorry again about my erroneous edit summary! Moonraker (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
The Civility Barnstar
For all the detailed information in the note you left me! Moonraker (talk) 03:24, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks bob, Drmies, Rayabhari and others above. Am not great but will be back. - Sitush (talk) 18:08, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Good to see you up and about, Sitush. Are you taking the dog for walkies yet? Don't wear the wrong trousers! Drmies (talk) 16:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
I went in for one thing and came out having something else fixed instead. I'm currently more sloth-like than usual, and the original issue is still in need of fixing. I'll be on and off here, I guess. - Sitush (talk) 17:05, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Illogical
You are reverting my edits without proper reason and crouching behind "rules". No one is an authority on everything under the Sun. Some Users spend lots of time researching topics and cite authentic books and publications. Certainly not internet reports. If you start questioning British sources and University faculty as unreliable, there can not be more travesty. If Wiki loses credibility it would because of such "Editors". See reason. I shall not continue wasting my time. I stop here by only appealing to few cells of your grey matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.217.221 (talk) 13:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
In what way W. C. Fowden becomes unreliable and your John Galloway becomes an object of reverence for you. Shame on you. Cheers. Bye!! Hope wisdom prevails on me. I stop myself interacting with lesser humans like you. 117.201.217.221 (talk) 13:58, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Police mug shots
First, thanks for clearifying Indian Copyright Law and about police mug shots. I believed that this images must be in public domain as they must be taken a long ago. I agree with you and also know that their original author is quite untraceable. Can we change their licence to copyrighted and use them under fair use criteria as there is no possibility of copyleft images? And moving them out of commons to individual Wikipedia. Regards and thanks again. :) Nizil (talk) 09:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm not 100 per cent sure but my guess would be "yes" if you can find the original source - websites and Krant's books won't suffice because they never seem to give the information. They have been deleted from en-Wikipedia before due to lack of sourcing & so the free use thing most likely was tested and found wanting. - Sitush (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I think most of the problems stem from Krant's incompetence both on- and off-Wikipedia. I've just remembered that I did a search some time ago & it appeared that many of the websites were taking submissions from Krant himself. He has created a massive web of disinformation/poor information in his quest to publicise himself, his books and his cause and it is probably now an irretrievable situation. How he got his "senior fellowship" in some unnamed institution is beyond me. - Sitush (talk) 10:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Biased editing
Dear editor you are continuously removing my contributions to article Kashmiri people by giving the reason that it is unreliable. Dear sitush I have done years of research on Kashmir and its culture . The points which I write cannot be found elsewhere on internet as they are not available there . But u keep on removing my contributions without even contacting me. The problem with Indian intellectuals is that they never want to allow the world to gain the real information on Kashmir which is similar to India's military occupation of Kashmir and oppression of its people. Wikipedia is for unbiased information. If u cannot give that then u should not decide on others. On Wikipedia u don't represent India but a platform for free and unbaised information.
Umaarshah —Preceding undated comment added 10:49, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi, I removed it once. Other people removed stuff that you had added previously because it violated copyright, as explained on your talk page. Even if you do not breach copyright, it is necessary that the information you add to articles is verifiable and that almost always requires that you provide reliable sources by use of citations. I'm happy to help you with using citations, as I've already said on your talk page, but you really do need to find sources and not rely on your own knowledge. If you have done the research over many years then presumably you will have no difficulty in finding reliable independently published material to meet our requirements.
By the way, I am not Indian. Making wild claims about other contributors is really not the best way to deal with things. It is, however, symptomatic of the controversies that surround Kashmir-related articles and is thus in itself an indicator of just how important it is that we have decent sources to support what we say. - Sitush (talk) 10:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
The word "you" has three letters, btw. Britmax (talk) 11:02, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Jawan Singh Solanki. Since you had some involvement with the Jawan Singh Solanki redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Sitush (talk) 11:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Jawan Singh Solanki. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Jawan Singh (politician). Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Jawan Singh (politician) – you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.
If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Sitush (talk) 08:20, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Self-notification fail :p I restored the redirect, and went to RFPP to request protection of the redirect. Lukeno94(tell Luke off here) 08:27, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
That's no good - it is a BLP violation because there is nothing to support the alleged last name & that name is a caste designator. - Sitush (talk) 08:29, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Can you start an WP:RFD and I'll protect it when the RFD template is on it? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:11, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
@Callanecc:, done as per the notice below. I'm sorry for all of this confusion but I wasn't aware that WP:RFD even existed! Nor was I expecting the other contributor to be quite so persistent (although it turns out that they are being so across several articles). - Sitush (talk) 11:34, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Clueless complaints
Now you've made it!
If (when) you get a lot of clueless complaints on your talkpage, feel free to refer the users to this new noticeboard, designed to lessen bloat at ANI. Bishonen | talk 14:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
Like. Lol. I've not been to ANI for at least a month. Mind you, I wasn't editing during that month either. - Sitush (talk) 14:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Face it. You have a lack of substance abuse problem. Drmies (talk) 17:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Hmmm. That's an idea, Drmies. But is it better than the dedicated noticeboard? Let's ask the talkpage stalkers. Please support the wheel or the noticeboard below! Bishonen | talk 17:13, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
Support pissing wheel. darwinbishBITE☠ 17:15, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
Support board, very friendly. darwinfish 17:20, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
Support board, more befitting of such complaints. Drmies (talk) 17:26, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Support pissing on wheel, most funnier. Drmies (talk) 17:27, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Comment. I thought the choice of image was for use on the board? Mind you, I'm pissed off at the moment and am probably not thinking straight. Time for a break, I think. Can someone take over my watchlist for a few hours? - Sitush (talk) 17:28, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
No one asked you anything, Sitush: stay out of this or I'm reporting you right now. Go check your email. Drmies (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
(And I was thinking more of you as the wheel, so to speak. The board is more about you being pissed on than off. Drmies (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2014 (UTC))
Support pissing wheel. Sorry, I hadn't noticed the hand-grenade, only the text. No need to blow you away when you're pissed on/off. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Oh..! Of course it was for use on the board. Sorry Sitush, I dropped the ball there. Fixed. Both images seem quite useful and tasteful. Bishonen | talk 17:54, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
Change to dog pissing on grenade. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:51, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Lol. I'll support either but we don't have an image for the dog. Dougweller (talk) 15:22, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping alert
Hi Sitush, thanks for the ping alert. Glad that ANI thing was over quickly. One thing that's bothering me about the Ganesh situation, are the accusations that he keeps throwing around about how there is a conspiracy to get Indians killed through village fighting as a result of this article. Statements like "User:Sitush plus a group is possibly trying to put communities in India to a fight" and "Since it endangered lives I wrote to you in person..." I'm not even sure what to make of that! Like, is he suggesting that factions are sitting around waiting to see how the Wikipedia article on the Vishwakarma caste portrays the Vishwakarmas, and if it's a certain way, the caste will be attacked? I'm pretty sure there's SOME rule against suggesting that other editors are warmongers. sigh... He seems fixated on that one quote: "That claim has been pushed tendentiously on Wikipedia by self-identified community members, usually by citing Roberts, and we really do need to put a stop to this."
His interpretation: What does he mean stop? Does he mean people should attack the Viswakarmas and that their lives are in danger?!
My interpretation: Potentially biased editors from within the community keep asserting facts that are only supported by Roberts, who is not a credible source. The insertion of these facts has to stop.
This is a really dumb question, but have you actually explained in detail to Ganesh what you meant by that phrase? If that's what he's hung up on, is there any way that explaining, "look, Roberts is not a credible scholar because of ______" and by "stop" I meant "nonviolently discourage editors from resubmitting that content"? Okay, I'm done ranting. Oh geez, now he's got me doing it! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:23, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
The email was a rather incoherent screed, IIRC, that basically seemed to be saying "you have to ignore the rules because if you do not then people will attack us off-wiki". I've tried to explain WP:CENSORED and various other related policies in the past. There is no doubt that caste violence generally continues in India but it will do so regardless of what is said on Wikipedia: if you please one side then you're bound to have upset the other, so the goal is simply to present everything according to WP:NPOV, WP:DUE etc. Sanskritisation lies at the root of much of the antagonism over there.
Ganesh has only raised my comment in the last week or so, starting with the original thread in which you became involved at Talk:Vishwakarma (caste). The comment was made by me in September 2013, he participated thereafter and said not a word until recently. It seems to me that he is just narked and scrambling for ways to see me off. That's the usual routine with this type of person, anyway, as @Bishonen: and others can perhaps verify. Anyway, I've sort of explained my meaning in the ANI thread & so hopefully that is the end of it. - Sitush (talk) 16:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
You wrote " Sanskritisation lies at the root of much of the antagonism over there." My friend right now Englishisation (In future this page will be around as well?) is being spread and it 100% apparent but you are raising your concerns about it? Who's biased here? All the documents I am reading is in English? But do you notice something called Feelingization that is already spread and is fixed? No matter what language is in use people are only concerned about the right feelings and right practices. Language only has secondary importance. Whether one writes a program in Foxpro, C, C++, Pascal, Binary, or any other language would it really matter? What output the final program gives is all that matters? How are you determining which practices came and when? Today we see the practice of developing Search Engines... when did this practice arrive first? Closely observe there is a Search Engine in your brain itself. Google has still not matched it. You think of something you need and you start getting results in your brain? Plus there is Epiphany_(feeling) installed within which has the capacity to provide perfect solutions to problems in Hands. Google is yet far away from producing the same. So which language was that brain's search engine routine written? In the language Google is written? You are perhaps comparing Methods with Language and trying to arrive at their arrival? Similarly you are trying arriving at Brahminization which is nothing else but segregation of society i.e. a Method based on one's nature from Sanskritisation? Isn't segregation a natural need (a feeling) and is an inbuilt quality which is any beyond any language so should be present eternally again like the search routine in the brain? Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 15:30, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Ganesh, I'm sorry but I really don't care to read these almost-entirely irrelevant walls of text. Umpteen people have advised you of where you are going wrong and of avenues that you can pursue if you wish to continue trying to obtain a pro-Vishwakarma outcome. I'm confident that you'll not get your way even if you try at those venues - WP:CENSORED, WP:RS, WP:NPOV etc - but, of course, you are welcome to have a go. Just don't bother me here with it, please. Bishonen (talk·contribs) has kindly set up a board specifically for WP:CLUE-less complaints and I'm afraid that yours has been in that category for well over six months now. I'm tired of it. - Sitush (talk) 16:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Class wars
Dear Sutish,
I do not know much about particular caste wars, although I have actually read a lot about them in general but would not know any particlars of a specific moment.
But I know about class snobbery from my life in England (I was born there to just a normal working class family living in a council house and I lived there most of my life, but a few years in Cairo and a couple in Texas) and I now live in Hungary where there is a lot of snobbery against Gypsies, Roma whatever name you want to call it (in Hungarian, csigany).
I know it is not quite the same but deliberately I kinda avoided mentioning that on the RfD because it is irrelevant to the RfD, and possibly backed into sounding patronising by trying to be over polite; I am sorry if that offended you but your reply sounded rude to me when all I was doing was trying to be polite without stating that I do know but that it also happens in other countries.
I apologise if it sounded patronising to you; it is not my intent to offend anyone. You are quite welcome to copy paste this reply into the RfD (or refer to it) but I thought it best to say to you first. I am sorry if my English sounded a bit odd but most of the day I speak Hungarian which I am not very good at, so it probably sounded rather arch whereas in Hungarian it would sound quite natural to say that level of politeness, without it being patronising.
As it happens I agree with you and I researched the links and so on; but in taking it to RfD you took it out of of the frying pan and into the foyer.
By the way I like the picture of the dog. University friends of mine lived in Abergele, but I lost touch with them now -- they could be anywhere in the world of course, that was twenty years ago. Si Trew (talk) 23:26, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
@SimonTrew:, I'm not in a great place at the moment and the fault here was at least 50 per cent mine. I always knew it might be dodgy coming back and doing too much, too soon and it seems perhaps I should have trusted my instinct. Just forget it ever happened. I will. - Sitush (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Forgotten. I was also in the wrong, I would say "Assume Bad Faith" was a bit strong I didn't do that at all, but I should not have been so harsh and put my opinions so strongly. Thank you for forgiving me. (In Texas, the class/caste war is usually against "Mexicans" of course: deliberate quotes). I should make clear I am not a Gypsy myself (just if anyone else reads this and infers that wrongly as me complaining; after I wrote it and posted it I realised it was ambiguous). I am fortunate by accident of birth to be white, blonde and blue eyed, English speaking, and so on; any antagonism I have had in my life has seem to come mostly from when I worked in Cambridge for many years, there is a very "in-club" with people who have been to Cambridge University and talk posh (I went to a redbrick but talk with roughly a cockney accent). I think it amounts to the same thing in kind, but of course completely different in degree.
My sincere best wishes. Si Trew (talk) 18:05, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Curious about you
Hi Sitush,
I have many of your edits, specially in articles relating to different communities in India. I am curious - Are you a researcher in the field?
I think you grew up in England. I was wondering about your interest in the Indian castes. Do you have roots in South Asia, for example perhaps in a region like Mirpur? Thanks.
Born in England, degrees in history. Never been to India, never studied the subject in an academic setting. I found out last year that my great- or great-great grandmother was born in Bangalore to English parents; she was back in England by the time she married. - Sitush (talk) 23:15, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Barnstar
The Original Barnstar
For your excellent work in reigning in caste glorifiers! Many of the sub-continental articles are beyond poor, but when I see a coherent page there's a good chance I will find your fingerprints in the edit history.94.194.24.46 (talk) 04:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Incorporation of Sanskritized people into the varna-system
Hi Sitush. In case you've got access to academic journals: Nath, Vijay (2001), "From 'Brahmanism' to 'Hinduism': Negotiating the Myth of the Great Tradition", Social Scientist 2001, pp. 19-50. Nath describes the spread of the Brahmanical system and the incorporation of new groups of people into the Brahmanical system by "appointing" them as Brahmins, often of a lower status than the "original" Brahmins. Another interesting title is Samuel, Geoffrey (2010), The Origins of Yoga and Tantra. Indic Religions to the Thirteenth Century, Cambridge University Press, on the creation of this Brahmanical system during the later Vedic period in northern India. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 22:15, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I've got JSTOR access & so can see your first link Right now I'm re-reading Basham's The Origins of Classical Hinduism & have a couple of other books lined up. I've got quite a few books specifically covering history and society in Bengal but I don't think they include Samuel. - Sitush (talk) 23:19, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
It's a relief to know that some people around here are reading descent books. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:59, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
IAC mediation
Hi Sitush, good to see you back. Would you be able to respond to comments by IAC on the mediation page. An opening statement would be the appropriate way to do that. Thanks. Sunray (talk) 18:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
@Sunray: Thanks. I'll try to come up with something short and sweet. I could do it in one word, beginning with the letter "b", but this is mediation & so I'll desist ;) - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Your participation is appreciated, as is your restraint. Sunray (talk) 01:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Raducanu
Well, I'm quite sure that while he was in Romania, the diacritic was in use, because that is in fact how one spells the name Răducanu; there is no "Raducanu" name in Romanian. (Perhaps you could ask him if you truly wish to make sure?) How that should be approached is another matter. What I did seems quiet and unobtrusive, but I suppose Roman Polanski, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Novak Djokovic (who all were born with diacritics in their names) might offer different guidance in this regard. - BiruitorulTalk 15:08, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
I've got a conflict of interest, so I have to be careful. I queried at User talk:Drmies because he gets a lot of knowledgeable stalkers. I'm pretty sure that you are misguided here and, certainly, Raducanu does not use the diacritic himself & nor do the sources - I thought I'd told you this? - Sitush (talk) 15:16, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
This is regarding House of Tulsipur or Tulsipur Dynasty. Mukharjee's book says Man Singh was from Shahganj and NOT from Tulsipur. Also, Raikar clan is not true...Tulsipur Rulers were clearly Chauhans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.246.131 (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks, I'll check the source. It's not often that I read sources incorrectly but I'm human, after all. - Sitush (talk) 08:25, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Namasudra
That was copyvio. Dougweller (talk) 12:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
It was? I could only see it in connection with an Orkut group, which amounts to fantasy! - Sitush (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks
Hi Sitush, Thanks. Plz dont take it too personal Sir, as you know arguments and disagreements are common here. Thanks again for your due diligence. -- Bharathiya (talk) 11:54, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
No problem. More to do there, I think. - Sitush (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
FYI
See It is obvious that the user is committing sock puppetry and edit warring, it is a WP:SPA, He makes accounts like [8], [9], Misrepresents information, while keeps on edit warring.. He won't ever discuss in talk. I am not getting why you removed the information from reliable sources and publishers that I had added on lead. While adding back his misrepresentation of information, and huge mess. Check the edit yourself. OccultZone (Talk) 17:19, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Just see what happens. You are aware that I left a note on their talk page (and on yours, although we may have crossed). Give it a few hours because it looks from the Sati talk page that you've had to apologise for accusing people of socking before. If you have reasonable evidence that the person is socking then take it to WP:SPI. Let the article simmer rather than get involved in yet another bout of edit warring. Meanwhile, I'll do some reading ;) - Sitush (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
It is true. But I learned that SPI cannot be opened if its single page. I saw my talk page, maybe you have misunderstanding. Can you refer me to the article? Maybe you are confusing with another editor, Arildnordby. Just saying that SPA like this editor -- are not new, they are persistent these days. Check Cullen_(surname), Talk:Superpower, etc, for similar and recent incidences. OccultZone (Talk) 17:34, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Can you show me a diff for the "SPI cannot be opened" bit? I've managed it in the past. But, yes, I have confused you with Arildnordby - sorry about that. I've opened a thread on the talk page and I'll dig into those sources pronto. - Sitush (talk) 17:42, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
[10] See decline reason. OccultZone (Talk) 18:00, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Hm, in that instance, the evidence was thin not merely because of the single edit. Especially since I notice that Itsmejudith (talk·contribs) had a thing or two to say about what you had been doing on that article at the time - she's usually very good at source-related stuff & two random people reverting poor edits is not worthy of a checkuser.
What you shouldn't do is accuse someone of sockpuppeting if you don't really have the evidence, and that applies as much to talk page as at SPI itself. Of course, repeated, frequent disruption by newly-registered accounts, IPs etc can be countered by other means, eg: via WP:RFPP.
In any event, Canto55 is now talking at the article page and raises some perfectly valid points, so I think a bit of AGF is in order.I'm not saying that your contribution was wrong but a bit of WP:BRD never did anyone any harm, especially on articles that have been contentious. Just chill and have a cup of tea, a bottle of Scotch or whatever. I know that chilling is easier to say than do, but maybe try it? - Sitush (talk) 18:15, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, we can wait, whatever will be the outcome of this process, it will make it easier. OccultZone (Talk) 18:24, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Hinduism in Pakistan. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. Well, only if you are interested in it, of course. Hafspajen (talk) 00:10, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
A flower
The player: I know that it isn't "yours", that's why I used quotation marks. Thanks for new words "obliquely" and "gnat"! You can pick a flower on top of my talk ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:22, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
No probs. I forget sometimes that English is not your first language, which is a compliment. "Attention span of a gnat" is quite a common saying over here; I think some people substitute "goldfish". - Sitush (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliment! I wrote yesterday about an author signing his book in one session in 53 languages, a record. Accessibility to readers of other languages - because for many topics the English article is the only one - is one of my goals, - that is no matter of attention span. Did you know that I received an opera house last year? This is the related article, most of it understandable in 53 languages, I would say, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:42, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Kukis
Hi, Sitush! I feel like I've just stepped in a major mud-puddle, was wondering if you and/or DougWeller could help me see the size of it. I see that you removed a big chunk of apparently copyvio stuff (thank you!) from The Kukis of Northeast India: Politics and Culture in November, and that at Kuki State Demand Committee you left the comment "like practically every other article created by the contributor ... full of copyvio". So I wondered how many of those you'd actually run into? Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi Sitush! I have a message for you at Talk:Kachwaha. Waiting for your response. -Owsert (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Kumar
Hi Sitush! As you are my main go-to person on India-related topics, I'm wondering if the Kumar article telling the whole story? A coworker from India once told me something to the effect that Kumar is never a real last name, but rather (as the article mentions) more of a title or middle name. Is that simply a regional prejudice? I'm surprised that the Kumar article doesn't go into greater detail into what is a commonly heard name/title. OhNoitsJamieTalk 16:25, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure but my bet is that it is complex! Patel, which is another common name, is used both to reference a caste group (see Patidar) and as a generic last name that has titular overtones relating to landholding. India is a big place, has 20-odd official languages and numerous different traditions. Not to mention a phenomenal (to western eyes) degree of antagonism and vanity. Thus, for example, in south India, caste-designating last names are used relatively infrequently even though (allegedly) an awful lot of people possess one - they don't publicise the thing because of historic prejudices. At or near the opposite extreme, are the Sikhs, who are not a caste, are predominantly in northern areas and for whom Singh is a badge of honour.
We have a surname project somewhere and of course there is WT:INB. I'd be inclined to query both or to raise the issue at Talk:Kumar and stick a notice on both project boards that refers to the discussion. It's not something I'm likely to get very involved in because, tbh, when ever I've looked at articles about names I've always tended to come away with the impression that the sourcing really isn't up to much at all. - Sitush (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I've noticed that general sourcing problem as well when it comes to articles about India, as well as the complexity issue. OhNoitsJamieTalk 17:51, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Note
I appreciate your recognition that Carol is the most disruptive active editor on the LvMI pages. I know you've criticized my conduct on the past. I want to tell you that I'm willing to accept a topic ban if we kick out Carol and the other tedentious editors. I agree that my controversial status undermines the ability of other editors to get things done in a dispassionate way. I also recognize that I've gone too far at times on the Mises pages, both in terms of edits and conduct toward other users. But the root cause of this is the tendentious attempt by Carol and others to promote a false image of Misesians on WP: as respected, mainstream contributors and even leaders in the field of economics. Steeletrap (talk) 20:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Changes reverted
I see few contibutuons made by me on Pratibha Patil are undone.
Couldnot understand more from the edit summary which says "trivial, as the secretariat response implies".
Correct me if am wrong on why they were undone .
(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
You are referring to this removal. As previously discussed by others on the article talk page, Presidents visit places. That's what they do, and especially so when they are basically figureheads rather than executive officers, as is the case in India. There is a lot of muckraking in Indian politics but Wikipedia is not the place to continue it. - Sitush (talk) 11:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Actually I fixed that first and then saw the INB post. My signature is so complicated, I have to use 1= always. Tito☸Dutta 00:13, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I actually thought it was your sig that was throwing my comment out but the problem still arose when I temporarily voided your comment. I had tried the "1=" even though the documentation makes no mention of it - it didn't work for me, even when I tried putting my comment above yours. All very odd but as long as it shows up now, that's all that matters. Thanks for fixing! - Sitush (talk) 00:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Behlot - Gurjar tribe
Hi Sitush. Can you please take a look at Behlot article. -- SMSTalk 20:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Will do but probably not for another 24 hours. That Behlot/Pehlot name was added as a redlink to List of Gurjar clans or some such recently. I reverted then per WP:V and WP:NLIST but I'll take another look at it. - Sitush (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Rajpurohit
You're welcome. Perhaps you saw that the sockmaster's block has been extended to indefinite. Nyttend (talk) 01:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
@Bbb23:, Resolved by redirecting to Heer clan. The only sources were unreliable and using a completely unscientific GSearch, "Heer punjab" gets over 10 times more hits than "Hayer punjab". Most of the hits relate to the things as surnames rather than as a gotra. I'll try to find some decent sources but almost certainly this is going to end up being PRODed as yet another non-notable family name. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Maybe I'd understand if I took the time, but I trust your judgment, so will spend my time otherwise. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Ah, the mysteries of the Orient (almost!). - Sitush (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
hound
I'm not going to derail that AfD but following up here. I consider your continued bringing up past AfDs as hounding. Sure I have been wrong (or on the wrong side of an AfD). So have you. Many times. We all have. It just means we have differences of opinion. That's all notability is, opinion, there is no absolute right and wrong. Your bringing up old AfDs continually as a strategy to try and discredit me is out of line. I have been on the right side and "won" AfDs as well, this is easily seen in the AfD stats. If it continues, and I'll let it continue to build up the record further, I will eventually take action. I have a thick skin but will only let it go so far. Can't say when that will be. I can't stop you from participating in AfDs I already posted in but I can stop you from this line of attack. Oh and "serious charge" is in the context of our notability rules obviously, the topic of this AfD discussion, not the real world legal system - telling me to "sue you", an anonymous person in unknown country, is ridiculous and cliche not to mention bad faith. Regards,
-- GreenC 07:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
@Green Cardamom:, you've accused people of hounding of hounding and have supported others among the downtrodden who had claimed to have been hounded. You were shown to be ridiculous then and you are now. But all I see in you when you do those things is a clue-less wikilawyer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. - Sitush (talk) 07:16, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Your response to my request to stop that behavior was not to say, ok, sure I'll stop that behavior if it bothers you. Lets diffuse this situation. Rather it was a string of personal attacks and a rude statement akin to a fuck you. How old are you if I can ask? -- GreenC 07:46, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
You don't like what I say, then don't make stupid allegations. Our paths barely ever cross AFAIK so how the hell I can be hounding you is beyond me. I'm presuming that you must be somewhat younger than my 51 years; if not, then you definitely need to grow up. - Sitush (talk) 07:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
And why did you do this in response to my explanation for commenting out here? You were bold in inserting that break but it guided the unwitting past a whole chuck of relevant source anaylsis from several people, so I commented out. I don't mind you fixing the commenting markup but replacing with a {{anchor}} that effectively reinstates your poor decision is, well, bloody annoying. It seems that you'll go to any length to persuade people of your take. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I spent most of the day up a 70-foot tree with a chainsaw & didn't have time to drag a sock's name from the depths of my dodgy memory. I've CSD G5'd the Devgan article - at best, it is just another non-notable clan. - Sitush (talk) 11:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
AfC draft
Hello there, thank you for showing interest to review this draft. I agree to what you commented at the top of the draft. To improve the draft, I have added more references, and this time I have introduced sources from books of a reputed local library in Kolkata. By the way you had caught a good point about Early Nationalists and early nationalist; Moderates and moderates. Actually it is a problem that has its roots deep into Our Indian history. During the time of our Independence the Indian historians described the first leaders as the "Moderates" for example an Indian author V. D. Mahajan described them as Moderates. But some of the prominent British individuals denoted them as moderates. example-Stanley A. Wolpert. Even now in a column of The Daily Telegraph on 23rd september author-Debasis Majumdar described them "Moderates". So I think we should create redirects after it was reviewed and moved to mainspace.
Have a look on the draft now, I have made some changes, please fix the possible problems you have mentioned in the comment followed by a review. Thank you in advance. JimCartar (talk) 11:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC).
Will do but I'm getting behind on my promises, so it may be a few days before I get round to it. - Sitush (talk) 11:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
No problem, take your time. But please don't forget about it. JimCartar (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello! Do you think it makes any logical sense to exclude that player from the Romanian rugby union players category, since almost all of them are also in the Romania international rugby union players category? It really seems repetitive but before they were international players they are Romanian players. This is whats been done in all rugby union players categories in Wikipedia, to include the players in both categories when they exist. In some cases there isnt a category for international players. See for yourself: [[11]]. Maybe both categories could be merged into one, because according with Wikipedia on overcategorization: "Mostly overlapping categories/If two or more categories have a large overlap (e.g. because many athletes participate in multiple all-star games, and religious leadership does not radically change from year to year), it is generally better to merge the subjects to a single category, and create lists to detail the multiple instances."
Mistico (talk) 03:40, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) WP:Overcategorisation. That people are ignoring the guideline elsewhere is not a reason to ignore it here. You could always try to change the guideline but the only common-sense reason that I can see for ignoring it in this sphere would be if a player was of nationality A but played for nation B (eg: a Romanian player who represents France) as does sometimes happen due to the rules regarding parentage etc. Maybe one day I'll get round to fixing the other articles, now that you've highlighted the problem. - Sitush (talk) 03:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
If you want to propose a merge of the categories then WP:CFD is the place to go. - Sitush (talk) 03:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Paramara
Hi there,
Just wanted to let you know I started a bit of a discussion over at Talk: Paramara. If you have a moment, I'd be interested to hear your opinion about how the article should be and the best way to get there. I am wondering if some aspects of a non finished article (with respect to its references, for example) might be a reasonable short term compromise, in order to make life easier for a copy editor who is trying to improve the article. Perhaps there is a simple mechanism for doing this at Wikipaedia that I am missing? I know people keep adding what seems like junk but I think they are trying to do so in good faith. Rest assured I won't start an edit war and I'll try to improve the references for any new paragraphs or sections. Cheers, and thanks for keeping an interest in the article, Myrtle G. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 05:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
And could I know the reason according to whom the sources are not reliable?Nijgoykar (talk) 07:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
I've explained already at the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Brahmin
Editing Kerala brahmin section regarding:
I am a native or Kerala and I am so sure about the subject. Presently, the caste system is not so strong in Kerala as it existed earlier. So almost all the references that you could obtain will be old. In fact, they are the true references as they were written in the time of Caste System. You may please make a study with available resources you have, before going for such deletions. Actually what happens by your deletion is that you are giving an incomplete or false information to the readers. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:11, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Anyway, I have added citation needed tags over that. Let us put it as a matter of discussion in the talk page. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list
Hello Sitush! There is a discussion that your input is requested on! I look forward to your comments, thoughts, opinions, criticisms, and questions!
You had requested to be pinged if there were any developments in the mediation. I think we could resume now. Would you be able to take a look? Sunray (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Please disregard my previous message. The anon IP that was party to the dispute has been blocked. [12] I will close the mediation. Thank you for your participation. Sunray (talk) 18:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Do not revert it back
Hello, I'm Nijgoykar. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks!
I would also request you to read Wikipedia:Citing sources.
Nijgoykar (talk)
I had raised my concerns on the article talk page and also referred you to WP:BRD and to a thread that I started at WT:INB. You are edit warring, have probably breached WP:3RR and you need to self-revert. - Sitush (talk) 13:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good. I'll try to figure it out. - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Vengeance
I see you are going over every edit i made and reverting it citing any possible Wikipedia rule you can and you are doing it after i opposed your proposal to delete Phaphra. I call it an example of perfect vengeance, i did not know you people were running Wikipedia like that. I also found the reason behind your over 119,000 edits. You go and start reverting all the edits made by another editor if that editor opposes you once. Good tactic to raise the edit numbers. Bravo to you. I hope Wikipedia soon introduces a barnstar for vengeance and i will surely award you one. Thanks for discouraging me and pushing me back. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've begun a thread regarding this at the ANI [13]. Cheers, JNW (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't think it is the entire site but Sajjad certainly seems to have a lot invested in the village article that is mentioned in the ANI thread. - Sitush (talk) 12:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
The article on Nairs is full of incorrect information. As for the List of Nairs, I don't need citations, because I know some of them in person. Thanks to people like you, wikipedia is full of nonsense. Anyways, I have better things to do. You seem to be an expert on Nairs (sarcasm intended). So keep editing away, Sitush. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcchandran (talk • contribs) 07:19, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Ok, will do. - Sitush (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
A couple of years ago, an editor at the Dutch Wikipedia wrote that he didn't need sources, because he was enlightened and therefor knew best. Another editor replied that being enlightened is irrelevant at Wikipedia, only WP:RS are. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I've no idea what policies apply at the Dutch WP but here we have WP:OR. In many ways I'm afraid that we are reflecting systemic bias: much knowledge about India remains in the form of oral history and as such we cannot use it. What people such as Arcchandran sometimes fail to grasp is that I find this as frustrating as they do. - Sitush (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I have a long time wish to move all these articles to, for example, List of Nairs to List of notable Nairs. Jist List of Nairs is confusing. But, as you can understand it'll need very large number of RMs, so I have not started it. Tito☸Dutta 15:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't think changing the titles of such lists is going to stop people from adding non-notable people. Inline notices and frequent reverts with edit summaries certainly do not, and unless there is some useful purpose I'd be inclined to leave the title alone. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Arbitrary Revisions
Hi Sitush ! While I appreciate your concern over the Wikipedia edits, I wonder if your overzealous and arbitrary actions are helping Wikipedia.
On specific changes you made to Khandelwal page, I believe you've flouted several norms and guidelines. You've also laid waste the sincere and diligent contributions of many Wikipedia editors.
WP:COI in a nutshell says "Do not edit Wikipedia in your own interests or in the interests of your external relationships." There isn't any conflict of interest as it's not an article for the interest of a particular individual / concern. It's about a major community in India. All the content has been appropriately cited and referenced. If you believe someone with knowledge of a topic writing about is bad then you wouldn't have Wikipedia in the first place.
From the other posts on your talk page, I have significant concern that you're probably acting in bad faith.
I am reverting the changes. If you still have concerns, first talk and then make changes. --Adroit09 (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Instead of making ludicrous accusations, why not actually read what I said on your talk page? - Sitush (talk) 17:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I still believe it would be beneficial for everyone if one could talk to the relevant person before making significant reverts especially when reasons for changes have been provided.
For your reference
Women's History Month: Come join us!
We need you!
Hi Sitush! 8th March is International Women's Day and to celebrate, women in India are organizing edit-a-thons and meetups to create and expand articles of importance to women in Wikipedia in English and various Indian languages. The goal of the month-long event is to encourage more women to contribute to Wikipedia and increase representation of articles related to women in Wikipedia. The event aims at creating new articles, expanding the existing stubs and translating English articles to various Indic languages. Read more about the event on our project page: Women's History Month (India), 2014.
Get involved by:
Signing up for the event and writing articles about notable Indian women
An article that you have been involved in editing, Khandelwal Vaishya, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Adroit09 (talk) 19:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I would like to know whey you deleted the whole article, rather than having questions about indibidual issues, if you have issues why not just discuss the same on the talk page prior to doing your edits
@Trueblood786:, you'll notice that it was not just me who had done that thing. @Smsarmad: also removed a lot of the content. I think that you need to revisit WP:V, WP:RS and WP:BURDEN. Perhaps also WP:COI, since your contribution history and repeated recreation of poor material there suggests that you may have a conflict. It is your responsibility to ensure that the content is compliant with our policies, not mine or that of Smsarmad. - Sitush (talk) 12:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I checked and found that other editor only took out a couple of lines, you took out the whole article, I will appreciate if you would tell me what exactly you think is a proper source as you dont agree on any of the sources that were listed by many editors. So I would request that in order to make this article better, that we work on this togeather and make it better, rather than getting rid of the whole thing.
For example what is wrong with a picture of a sudhan, or that they are all over the world, I think many sudhans worked on this article and I would defer to them, I was in Kashmir and that is where I learned a lot about Sudhans. So I would like to request your assistance in getting this better, rather than destroying it.
Can you take this to the article talk page, please. More people with an interest in the subject matter are likely to see it there. However, for what it is worth, the image was not originally removed by me. - Sitush (talk) 01:47, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
WikiProject AFC is holding a month long Backlog Elimination Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1, 2014 to March 31, 2014.
Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.
There is a backlog of over 2400 articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!
Thank you for your recent sources and edits, "near to Lahore" needs to come off too, does not make sense. Does not define proximity and i do not think it makes a good English sentence but i leave that to you since i do not think i am an expert on English language. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
How far is Pindi Bhattian from Lahore? When it comes to towns and villages, it often helps readers to have a commonly-recognised place as a marker. Is there a major city that is closer? - Sitush (talk) 03:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Forget that - I've worked it out. Page 34 of Gaur says 12 kos. According to Kos (unit) that equates to 24 miles (39 km). - Sitush (talk) 03:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Your recent editing history at Pratibha Patil and Kapil Sibal shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. --KakaDesi 13:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
ANI discussion about Trueblood. Dougweller (talk) 21:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
I see that the fun is over. Is that my third or fourth haul-up to ANI this week? - Sitush (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
March 2014
Hello, I'm User:Premthanjavur. The edits made by me in the Pallava dynasty were sourced reliably. And I referred both Inscriptions and Book references which are accepted as strong references by the historians. Because the stone inscriptions are from the book South Indian Inscriptions vol 12 which was widely recognized for South Indian History. And the book 'Ancient to Medieval: South Indian Society in Transition' is written by Noboru Karashima, who was conferred the Padma Shri award in 2013, one of India's highest civilian award, for his contribution in the field of History. And also Nominated for the Padma Bushan award 2014. So do not Underestimate his contributions. And also do not have an biased view /opinion on editing History related articles. So I conclude that the references provide by me in 'Kadava' Section is most reliable and am also edited the 'Kadava' Section again with same references. For further discussions you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Preceding undated comment added 06:32, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Reply to your query to me
Dear Sitush:
I just received your email and am having trouble trying to understand what you want me to comment on. Is it the reference that "Abstruce" makes to me saying that: "Kindly note that this very book has been deemed as "unreliable and misleading work" by User:John Hill,. . . ."?
I presume this is in reference to the book: Origins and History of Jats and Other Allied Nomadic Tribes of India: 900 B.C.-1947 A.D |first=B. S. |last=Nijjar |publisher=Atlantic Publishers |year=2008.
If so, this is probably correct - I very likely would have made such a comment about this book - but I would have said it so long ago I cannot remember in what context or even in which article it appeared. I am sorry I cannot be more specific than this.
If you would like some idea of why I might have said that the book was a "misleading and unreliable work" - just have a look at the pages available on Google Books. For example, the reference given here is to: url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xQM9voN21ekC&pg=PA73
Checking this single page I note that there is a generalisation about Jats that sounds rather defamatory or at the very least biased: "The Jats, moreover, are extremely proud and consider themselves not only the owners of the land but of the village itself. Fear and hatred of the Jats is, therefore, justified to a certain extent, and the Jats enjoy and profit from the fear they evoke in others."
If I remember correctly (and please keep in mind it is some years since I read this book), there were numerous such generalisations scattered throughout the work - thus making it an unreliable reference.
I hope this answers your question - if not please write again and clarify exactly what you want.
It wasn't an email but rather a query on your talk page. I've responded to you there, as is convention. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 12:30, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
2nd reply
Nijjar may be an "academic historian" and he is entitled to his opinions. But, if his book is to be considered a reputable source of history he should qualify his comments. E.g. he could have said: "Many (instead of "the" = "all") Jats, moreover, are extremely proud and consider themselves not only the owners of the land but of the village itself. Fear and hatred of the Jats is, therefore, justified to a certain extent, and some (rather than "the") Jats enjoy and profit from the fear they evoke in others."
He is running down and tarring all Jats as being the same, and while what he says may be true of some Jats - it is clearly not so for all of them. It is akin to saying: "The Germans are (all) Nazis and terrorise Jews," or "Australians are (all) racists." That is why I believe his book is a biased, unreliable and misleading work, and not worthy of being accepted as a reference in the Wikipedia. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 13:20, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
I've no idea why you keep posting your replies here. In any event, you cannot read his mind and therefore you have to accept that what he says is what he means, like it or loathe it. I'm still unsure whether it is a reliable source but your rationales won't hold up. Unless your argument is that he is a fringe/pseudo-historian, in which case we could do with some examples of peers who say this. I'll try to find out how often his works have been cited etc. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Quick chat request
If you are online now and have some time in hand could you attend a quick talk session (at Google Docs, the way we talked last time).
Topic: Talk on a new off wiki but wiki related initiative.
Talk line: Quick demo to you. Asking for suggestions where I am stumped.
You may join here if you are online now or in next one hour. I'll keep on checking the open document. Tito☸Dutta 13:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed this and I've got to go away again for a bit. - Sitush (talk) 15:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Okay, no problem. I am going for dinner for an hour as well. If you give me an appointment that'll be fine, else we may talk later. Tito☸Dutta 15:14, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Hill and Fowler
Dear Friend Sitush, I have replied here (as I thought John Hill might also be interested). Sincerely, ← Abstruce 06:32, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Articles of dubious merit
Hello. I believe you remember a "pre-Afd discussion for the deletion of Tamil American, Tamil Australian, Kannada American & Bengali American" wiki pages. Since there wasn't any response, shall i raise this issue in the WT:INB noticeboard or would it better if I report them for deletion right away? I'm hereby summarizing the reasons for the proposed deletion, in case you don't remember. Neither of these countries (United States & Australia) have used these terminologies for "census, immigration & other govt" purposes nor have their media used them in their articles & reports. These people have always been called/listed/reported as "Indian American/Australian" or "Sri Lankan American/Australian" based on their country of origin. The sources cited in these articles "have not mentioned them as official terms", but they simply contain some statistical data regarding the number of tamil speakers. I'm sure this factor doesn't qualify for the creation of these articles in wikipedia. Hari7478 (talk) 20:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to take them to AfD but there is no harm in sounding INB out first. Government classifications (census etc) don't really count for much either for or against: the key is whether or not there is discussion about these various groups in reliable sources. There probably are community websites (like the APNA organisation) but those also do not really count. - Sitush (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Respected Sir
Please dont take it otherwise. I really respect you for your wiki contributions. Still, if u permit then may i ask the reason for removal of contents on the article just because of yadava word. where as other caste related words like Jat, Gurjar etc. are present there. One more thing I would like to add what i have seen with my own eyes... The fort of Jaisalmer and all text related to Bhatis, the word Yadava is present there. Indian History too have such mentions everywhere. Sorry,I am not questioning you, just curious to know if there is any specific reason. Actually, I see all the caste related pages and in case of almost every caste i find that Indian Social history is misrepresented at most of the places. Your response in this regard will certainly be a matter of emmense pleasure for me. Regards and wishes Mahensingha (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I've been trying to read up on the Bhati but it gets very confusing due to ambiguities with Bahti etc. The sources that you added were also confusing. I've little doubt that Jaisalmer was controlled by a family known as Bhati but your sources were vague, as is typical for the name: one of them even referred to the family as Yadav Bhati Rajputs, which makes things even more confusing because Yadavs are a different group again and, IIRC, are not considered to be Rajput. And Yadava is treated as different from Yadav in many sources, so there is yet another problem.
The whole thing is an unfortunate mess &, as you say, it also apparently involves Jats and Gurjars. It is no-one's fault that this is so but quite how we resolve it is beyond me at the moment. It is likely to need some intensive research of the type that for which I've simply not been able to find time. Any suggestions would be welcome but they'd probably be better given on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 21:48, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Maram nawaz
There is a dispute concerning sourced material, SMS editor keeps on reverting, can u look into this
I think you are referring to Maryam Nawaz and Smsarmad (talk·contribs). It looks like you have taken it to WP:DRN but, for whatever my opinion is worth, the disputed sources look to be very poor. Smsarmad has a lot of experience and a quick look at this instance suggests to me that the experience is showing. That's not a criticism of you: identifying reliable sources can be tricky sometimes. If I were you, I would have taken the issue to WP:RSN rather than WP:DRN but, either way, I'd be surprised if you get your way based on those sources. - Sitush (talk) 00:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Use of social sites in Political parties articles
Hi Sitush,
I have few doubts about addition of social sites in indian political parties articles. Hope they can be clarified.
I have seen that indian political parties have added their official facebook, twitter, youtube and blogs in the external link section. Is this not the case of publicity and violation of Wikipedia:NPOV. Should the official sites be enough for the information.
Same is the case of articles of Indian politicians added their official facebook, twitter, youtube and blogs in the external link section.
Last doubt if the person is not a politician, but a social activist, environmentalist then still is it applicable to add social sites listed above mainly in the case if they do not have their official sites.
I'm not Sitush but I know that more than one official link is frowned upon. See WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, which encourages the maximum reader benefit from the minimum number of external links. It is especially relevant to see that "Wikipedia does not exist to facilitate corporate 'communication strategies' or other forms of marketing." The promotion of the political party is not Wikipedia's concern. Binksternet (talk) 05:49, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm with Binksternet on this one. If the party/politician has an official website then that will give their Facebook/Twitter etc details anyway, so there is no need for all the other promotional links. - Sitush (talk) 12:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
BTW, determining what is or is not an official web channel can be tricky, especially when it comes to individuals who are activists. It often pays to err on the side of caution and to study the blog etc carefully to get an understanding of whether it is first-person material etc. - Sitush (talk) 12:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
As per WP:QUOTE , quotes are advisable to make things less controversial. And this Khatri article is already full of controversies so please do not remove the quotes that i have taken from the specified references. I am reverting the article to its earlier form. Thanks. Kirtimaansyal (talk) 06:24, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
You have misunderstood it. Please read WP:COPYRIGHT and note that your edits was basically an assembly of sentences from the various sources. You cannot do that. - Sitush (talk) 06:30, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I have not copied the entire paragraph. I have copied 1-3 lines from various references so as to make it less controversial which is acceptable as per WP:QUOTE. I agree to your suggestions about copyright, i will add the source material under quote marks so as to make it acceptable and follow the other advised exercise mentioned at WP:QUOTE. For now I am not reverting the changes, but will put things as per WP:LOP soon. Kirtimaansyal (talk) 06:37, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I have written the whole origin and varna status again. I agree to your copyright infringement point and i have taken care of it. Please do not undo the changes as i have invested my whole day for finding the right excerpts from books and wrote it in meaningful manner. Kirtimaansyal (talk) 17:34, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
The next revert on the article and I'll add protection. However, I don't know what the "correct" version should be. Bgwhite (talk) 18:59, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea either. I'd be inclined just to protect it in what ever state it happens to be, as per that policy. Unless there is a BLP or copyright violation, it shouldn't matter: they can fight it out on the talk page or at some appropriate noticeboard. - Sitush (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Page is now protected. Autoconfirmed for one month. I'm telling everybody that you did it so you can be the one taken to ANI. You are always there, so you must love that place. :) Bgwhite (talk) 06:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I can remember the first time that I was hauled before the beaks, and it was nothing to do with South Asia. I was terrified then but now I'm just resigned: one day, sooner or later, I'm going to suffer there. The subsequent cheers from Orkut groups etc will doubtless resonate. - Sitush (talk) 12:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is All set. Message added 12:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Thanks for teaching User:Kakadesi why Wikipedia exist. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS☣ 19:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Care to explain
Care to explain why you reverted my edits at Noor Pur Baghan and why you were mentioning WP:SPI on the talk page? Do you think only a sympathizer of a page can make improvement to a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ Baghi (talk • contribs) 03:17, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Now this is when you give them the rope and they start swinging on it. -- SMSTalk 08:24, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
@Smsarmad What is that suppose to mean? Can we talk about what I asked instead of talking nonsense? And how are you both related anyway? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ Baghi (talk • contribs) 13:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
See WP:ROPE. The connection between myself and Smsarmad extends no further than the human genome and a common interest in Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 13:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Your reverts to this page amount to vandalism. All sources are cited, but because you do not like the truth you are trying to distort history. This is being dishonest and anyone can forensically examine your edits and see that what you are doing.
By the way your after examination your user page. I am pretty sure it is also a a fraud, you have given yourself all those accolades using false accounts, created bu yourself. You are misusing wikipedia and may be put on a special watch list — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rakeshvasishth (talk • contribs) 14:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
@Bishonen:, @Drmies: This is a new one on me, being accused of fraudulently creating positive stuff on this talk page. Given the number of criticisms here, d'ya think I'm doing well as a good hand/bad hand type? Were you aware that I also operate Jimbo's account? - Sitush (talk) 14:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
The accusation is totally false. I'm Sitush's lover and I've been creating the accounts to give my sultry Sitush all this praise. I've always loved my dear Sitush and always will. Stay away Bishonen, you are getting to close to him. I'm his bit.... Drmies (talk) 19:25, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: Good try, although it might raise the eyebrows of She Who Must Be Obeyed in Auburn. And my mother. The giveaway was the "I'm his bit" bit ... that's not the sort of slang with which @Drmies: will be familiar, being an academic of a lower-middle class upbringing. It's a commonplace among we plebs, of course. ;)
Sitush, you've probably already gotten the notification, but for the benefit of anybody else reading here, I've started a discussion section, Talk:Singahi Bhiraura#Expanded history section?, to get discussion about whether to add the full text added by Rakeshvasishth and the IP accounts, or some portion of that text, to the article. —C.Fred (talk) 14:28, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Yashpal may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
uk/books?id=R7B32yVCqGYC |page=xvi}} English translation by [[Anand]] of Yashpal's ''Jhutha Sac'')</ref>
co.uk/books?id=R7B32yVCqGYC |page=xi}} English translation by [[Anand]] of Yashpal's ''Jhutha Sac'')</ref>
"As a newly-self-anointed Independent Wikepedia Investigator and Guardian of the Articles, I have historically examined just one of your edits and there seems to be too much integrity to your character."
Sorry but I couldn't resist paraphrasing. Thank you for your diligent work, especially at Singahi Bhiraura. Green Giant supports NonFreeWiki (talk) 12:50, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Osmania University
The edit of Tharunu to the page of Osmania University was not productive. Many of my good edits were revered because of his edit. The recent Seemandhra-Telangana conflict may also do damage to AP- related articles on this website. Can you keep an eye on the page of OU? By the way, I am happy to see you making so many productive edits. "I" in my username means India. I'm currently in a vacation - when I will return to my home town, I will look after the OU page myself. Many thanks. :) UI1990 (talk) 13:25, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Vandalism by User Sitush
You have removed large chunks of materiel from the Singahi article on spurious grounds. As an Independent Wikepedia investigator I have historically examined several of your edits and there seems a certian lack of integrity to your character. I use harsh words here, take for instance (and one can not hide anything in wikipedia The Singhai article you said you did not believe the cited sources and removed large parts of the article. Well the article was cited with proper academic rigor, and its up to you now to go into the sources. I have done so and verified the sources of this article. Now the question remains why you chose to edit this article and what did you not like about it. I suspect and I need to built a case via an investigation on all your Wikipedia edits, is that you are following a political agenda and would like to see a distortion of Indian History. The sang Parivar or RSS also follows this agenda and several users and administrators have been banned from Wikipedia after their peers investigated.
The Guardians of the articles in Wikipedia are the users themselves along with the transparency of all edits which undergo a peer review.
I am sorry Sitush you have failed this peer review. Moreover I suspect the accolades and the praise on your user page is similariry manufactured by yourself and your friends
(talk page stalker) I think I'm going to call myself a Independent Wikipedia investigator, I like that title...although Guardians of the articles is also pretty sweet. LizRead!Talk! 02:38, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Liz. Thank you for the laugh. Whenever I see your name, I will think Guardian of the articlesBgwhite (talk) 09:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I preferred the little doggie over the grenade I recall you mentioning you had JSTOR access, as RP has not been around for a while I was hoping you could check to see if you can nab a few papers for me? I am after The Secret Young-Turk Ittihadist Conference and the Decision for the World War I Genocide of the Armenians Holocaust Genocide Studies (1993) 7 (2): 173-201.
doi: 10.1093/hgs/7.2.173 And maybe a few more if you do have access, or any of your TPS? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
I've got access, yes, but Holocaust and Genocide Studies is not available at JSTOR. Seems to be Oxford Journals. I've had stuff from that place via WP:RX in the past but I can't recall who provided it.
Let me know what the others are. - Sitush (talk) 16:49, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Bugger, all the ones I have seen so far are in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, I just did a search on JSTOR and would like this one though, An Escape from Reason: Genocide and the International Commission of Inquiry on Darfur Nsongurua J. Udombana The International Lawyer Vol. 40, No. 1 (SPRING 2006), pp. 41-66 Darkness Shines (talk) 16:58, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) DS, I have Dadrian, Vahakn N., The Secret Young-Turk Ittihadist Conference and the Decision for the World War I Genocide of the Armenians. 7 Holocaust & Genocide Stud. 173 (1993). What are you willing to give me in exchange for it? SalvioLet's talk about it! 17:10, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
A bottle of the best house wine rome has to offer? Darkness Shines (talk) 17:16, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Affare fatto! Just send me an e-mail and I'll forward you the pdf. P.S. Howdy Sitush, how are things? SalvioLet's talk about it! 17:19, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Mailed ya, is there really a wine calle "fatto"? Sounds real good, do they deep fry it before serving Darkness Shines (talk) 17:27, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for stepping in, @Salvio giuliano:. I've been too busy admiring the Complaint Generator that Bishonen has set up over at Talk:AN/S.
@Darkness Shines:, I don't seem to have access to the other one at JSTOR - my stuff comes through the University of Cambridge alumni scheme and I'm a bit pissed that this journal is definitely on JSTOR but not available to me. I mean, Cambridge produces the best lizards lawyers in the world (Salvio excepted, of course), so you'd think they'd include this thing. I shall be having words with the appropriate authorities. - Sitush (talk) 18:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
No fatto wine for me, which probably is Rome's equivalent of your Château Thames Embankment; DS, you have volunteered to offer me a bottle of barolo...
Sitush, for legal articles, I usually use HeinOnline, which has an impressive amount of material – and whose subscription is paid for by my university... Oh, and that noticeboards is awesome: I've been playing with the complaint generator for a bit now... SalvioLet's talk about it! 18:47, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
ANI?
Time for ANI to block this bunch of meatpuppets? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:03, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I was hoping that C.Fred or some other admin would just block them but seems to be a lot of rope being given. The consensus (as in argument supported by policy, rather than meanderings about what "real" researcher do) is clearly in favour of not including the info. It could be taken to WP:DRN if they really wanted but they'd get blown out of the water there also. I'm pretty sure this is socking, not meating: repeated copy/pastes, style of section heads, repeated sectioning, problems with refactoring the sigs of others, and a 39.* IP that is obviously the last-registered of the users. The problem is, checkuser won't link accounts to IPs, so the behavioural evidence will need to be great rather than just good.
ANI may not be the best place to go because some will say that it is fundamentally a content dispute. But if someone thinks that a case can be made there then I'll have no objection. - Sitush (talk) 15:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
The IPs, including the one that added a comment here immediately after Padmantrivedi, all geolocate to BT in London. Somewhere, Lalitshastri has said that they are a member of the British Library, which is also in London. Add that to the behavioural stuff and I think there may be enough to justify a checkuser on the Lalishastri/Padmantrivedi accounts. I need to find the diff for the British Library membership comment. - Sitush (talk) 15:23, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
At my userpage: "We also publish audio CDs from the collections held by the British Library" diff. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:49, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
You've got mail!
Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 23:07, 11 March 2014 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Could you create User:Sitush/Paid editing in Indian articles. I have been reporting here and there for a long time. It'll be excellent if we can collect all issues at a place. Tito☸Dutta 00:41, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I've never seen any paid editing on India articles. Or, at least, none that I've identified as such. - Sitush (talk) 01:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Noted. Replied there. Going for some zzzz's. - Sitush (talk) 01:02, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello
Hey how's it going Sorry, I mean t to write the reason why ... however my mac blocks the popup when I do that using twinkle. The reason I went had to undo that was due to numerous reverts without any credible source or reason that he did, when I wish he would just go to Talk:Allahabad Address instead of Wikipedia:Disruptive editing. In fact, although not obligated, it would be greatly appreciated that if you have any knowledge of the Road to Partition of India, to go to that page and give your point of view on the subject matter. Thanks. Ps. If you are online, please do leave a message on my wall or mention me in the article and I will respond lilpiglet 05:59, 12 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilpiglet (talk • contribs)
Don't worry about the edit summary - it happens. I have just replied at the talk page but I'll do some more digging. We do carry articles about hoaxes but not hoax articles, if you see what I mean. - Sitush (talk) 06:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much User: Sitush ... pardon me for not writing your name previously ... I guess i have lilbutterfingers today or just supper tired with 4 hours of sleep and should be writing a paper rather than on here ;) lilpiglet 06:04, 12 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilpiglet (talk • contribs)
Er, no sleep for me. You'll see in a section just above that I tried. Dreadful tinnitus at the moment but I'm about to try again. Write that paper: WP will still be here when you're done. - Sitush (talk) 06:07, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
How come no sleep for you. and Touche about WP will be right here :) lilpiglet 06:53, 12 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilpiglet (talk • contribs)
Please give reason to remove 'Ethnology' section from 'Aguri' caste.
Hi,
Can you please give me the reason why 'Ethnology' section is removed from 'Aguri' or 'Ugra Khatriya' article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jecob8888 (talk • contribs) 08:41, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Sure. The problem was that the information was unsourced and, from my experience, unlikely ever to be sourced. Many caste articles mention surnames and information from the British censuses of the 1800s but the names are almost always original research and trivial, while the censuses are simply not reliable sources. Similarly, even modern demographic information - population, places of residence etc - tend to be impossible to verify in a manner that is acceptable to Wikipedia, principally because there were no caste censuses from the Raj period until 2011 ... and even the 2011 data is incomplete. Hope this helps. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes, thanks. I've replied there and the article is on my watchlist, so there is no need for you to let me know here also in future. Don't fret about the ANI report: it was the wrong thing to do but you've learned that now. As a general rule, we discuss first and only report later if things are realy bad. Usually, ANI is not the place to report something. For example, edit warring should normally go to WP:AN3 and queries about the neutrality of something should go to WP:NPOVN. The WP:DR page also has some useful guidance. - Sitush (talk) 21:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a place where I learn new things every day. Gn WOWॐIndianTalk 21:08, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
You seem to have a penchant to poke into other pages and edit , obvious from so many complaints on your page. Dont vandalize pages about which you have little or no clue even after reading the references. You want to get into edit wars rather than ensuring that articles comply with Wikipedia's Usage Terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldruff (talk • contribs) 06:32, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
I've warned this user for personal attacks ("vandalism"). Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:25, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Raju
hi Sitush, can i know the reason for you to delete the edits i have done.--Rajachinababu (talk) 05:30, 14 March 2014 (UTC) RAJU--Rajachinababu (talk) 05:30, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
1)if you know most of the kshatriyas in Andhra belong to Suryavamsha.. an aryan clan ,which doesnt exists in the southern part in those days, so, that was the reason why i,have made that edit.
2) my second edit with reference to ("Sri Rajah Vatsavi Venkata Surya Narayana Jagapathi Raj Bahadur") is the last king to undergo Pattabishakam(coronation) among Kshatriyas in our state, to which you are objecting it as false,,and he handed everthing for the people with out forming any societies to safeguard his property ( which was a common procedure in those days)
i may be wrong, if so please enlighten me with a reason for your deletions
@Rajachinababu: Hi, I think you must be referring to this removal by me at Raju. I was not saying that you were wrong but rather that the information about migration from North India is not in the reliable source that is shown. You also made other changes in that contribution that simply do not seem to fit with the sources at all. Almost all statements made in Wikipedia articles need to be verifiable - you cannot just say what you know because that is original research.
For example, I am aware of claims that the concept of the four varnas comes from Vedic Brahmanism and also that that concept was developed in North India before spreading elsewhere in the country as some Brahmins were displaced by invading peoples such as the Mughals. However, the author of the cited source doesn't seem to explain why they believe there are no kshatriya in Andhra. Please note that the source is referring to the modern day, not some historic time before they finally turned up there (check it here). We can't say something that the source doesn't say. - Sitush (talk) 08:34, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
2002 Gujarat Violence
Hey Sitush, during my recent prowls through the gujarat riots/godhra cesspool, I noticed that there appears not to be a page about the Nanavati-Shah commission. There are a vast number of links to a supposed page on the commission, but they all end up elsewhere; at the original shah commission, or at the train burning page, or the riots page. I am unsure of whether the commission in noteworthy enough for its own page, but regardless of that, it's an issue that needs to be dealt with, one way or another. Cheers, Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:51, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
"Oh God, if there is a God, save my soul, if I have a soul" comes to mind. I am sure that you are right but I'm less sure that I want to get involved in it. A stubby thing with decent links/See also section might be the place to start, then move all the variant links so that they are directed to it. Any development beyond that sounds like a task for @Darkness Shines:, who can soak up the punishment far better than me. - Sitush (talk) 02:04, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Peace, friend, I was asking for your opinion only, wasn't actually dumping the entire task on your broad shoulders :-) Thanks anyhow, I will get to it at some point. Vanamonde93 (talk) 02:14, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh, my opinion is that an article can be justified. I'm not known for keeping my opinions to myself ;) - Sitush (talk) 02:18, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Draft
I have seen that you have made some good changes. But as you said more sources needed, now I'm really afraid that I cannot find anymore. As you said to change bullets into prose, that was ok I will change it into prose. But really I can't do anything else. Now it is upto you if you can review it and pass it into mainspace. Thanks. JimCarter (talk) 09:33, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
OK. I don;t hold out a lot of hope for it but I'll see what I can find. - Sitush (talk) 22:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks. I will also try to find some more sources; but I can't assure you that they are going to be online. JimCarter (talk) 06:50, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Y'know....
It's funny; last night I had a dream that you and several others whom I vaguely feel should be admins (TransporterMan, Go Phightins! are the ones I remember) decided to all run at RfA at once. The rest of the dream was taken up by a bunch of editors (e.g. Drmies, Bishonen) cracking jokes while building sandbag floodwalls (physically building them, somehow; dreams are weird) to handle the incoming surge of SPAs on their way to oppose your RfA. It was a strange dream. (no comment on why I was dreaming about Wikipedia. I don't control my subconscious, man.) Writ Keeper⚇♔ 20:00, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I guess that's a compliment .... or is creepy :-) GoPhightins! 20:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
*shrugs* It is what it is. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 20:32, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
SPAs would definitely be a problem! As for dreams, well, I'm one of those weird people who very rarely experiences them. I've no idea whether WP sometimes features in those of many contributors but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. I wonder whether it affects I dream of horses (talk·contribs)? - Sitush (talk) 21:10, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure if I ever dreamt about Wikipedia (people dream whether or not they remember them...), but I think my screen name has assisted me in literally dreaming about horses. --I dream of horsesIf you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 23:41, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Wow, that is some dream, Writ. (I have Wikipedia dreams fairly regularly but they are difficult to remember because often they play on "code", Matrix-style. Linking is often involved, and sorting. I read Ender's Game only once, and not very carefully, but those dreams are like being in that game.) One wishes that Can't sleep, clown will eat me were still around: surely they could shed light on this matter. Sitush, how's the special Sitush drama board going? Any takers? Drmies (talk) 13:57, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Yep, we had a taker a few hours ago but I don't think they really knew what they were doing & they've put the same message below here. Hold on, that's the definition of clue-less, I guess. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
I had a nightmare once where I was on ArbCom. But then I didn't wake up... --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:00, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
@Floquenbeam: I don't understand why sensible people even stand for ArbCom. It seems somewhat like a triumph of hope over experience and it must drive them daft. That said, their presence does help to balance the power-hungry non-content creators, the moral arbiters similar to the disgusted of Tunbridge Wells etc and for that I salute them. - Sitush (talk) 01:59, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Sensible people don't stand for ArbCom. I count as a "non-content creator", but hopefully don't count as "power-hungry". Yet. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:58, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Ditto, also hopefully. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 17:01, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Sajjad Altaf , etc
I've been pretty busy at work so I haven't had time to dig to deep into the issue (other than notice the same author creating a lot of NN articles and some COI). What's your summary of the situation, and do you think any further action is warranted at this time? OhNoitsJamieTalk 15:30, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
They are fairly new and some of the issues are probably little more than a case of running before they can walk. That said, they do not seem to be particularly receptive when explanation are given and thus repeat the error of their ways. They're very interested in Pakistan-related material, which is fine, but I'm a bit concerned that they might have got a bit of a chip on their shoulder relating to perceived poor coverage of that country and that this shows in the form of some tendentious IDHT behaviour and ownership. Right now, they're a real nuisance but the question is how much rope do they get? @Smsarmad: and @JNW: are two who may have thoughts regarding this: both have had quite a lot of involvement with Sajjad. - Sitush (talk) 16:08, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
This removal from their takl page is curious. I think that Smsarmad had a point there but it would seem that Sajjad objects in some way. - Sitush (talk) 18:56, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I find this user too confrontational with IDHT (or IDONTWANTTOHEARTHAT) attitude, who is not going to correct their behavior no matter how many times or how much politely you advise them. Some examples:
He thinks that every issue wherever Sitush (and probably me also) is involved is because of some comment he made at an AfD. And continuesto think like this, ignoring the problems identified with their editing.
His understanding of Wikipedia's policies is very much clear by his own comment (though he offered an explanation but by his comments at AfDs it remains adamant)
Also he is very quick with the "undo" button. And lastly involvement of new editors (one of whom claims himself that he was called here) wherever he enters in a content dispute, doesn't show that he is going to correct himself. Not sure what action might be good at this stage, now that a SPI is also pending, but at the least he needs to be strictly warned. -- SMSTalk 21:26, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Thought you'd be interested in the findings of the SPI, if you haven't seen already [14]. Cheers, JNW (talk) 02:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@JNW: Yes, I saw that. Mind, I'm surprised that one is only a "possible". Maybe we can get the New York Times or whatever to update their story. - Sitush (talk) 02:38, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
I actually entertained the idea on a few occasions in recent weeks, but dispensed of it each time, realizing that going to the trouble would appear a bit malicious, and the Times wouldn't care. But it says something about the interest in technology, rather than quality of writing and research, and as far as that goes I'm disappointed. So users can edit on mobile devices....so what? JNW (talk) 02:48, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Re from my talk: If you haven't already noticed I started the article Henry Scholberg who probably edited the only bibliography of its kind about Indian Manuals and gazetteers. There is a JSTOR review out there by N. Gerald Barrier but I can't access it. Isn't it would be helpful to paraphrase the review and list the relative merits and demerits of each gazetteers and point the newbie editors to it rather than waste each time? Solomon7968 18:41, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I can get the review. If you want a copy then just drop me an email & I'll bang it straight back to you. - Sitush (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer! BTW can you access all of them? If yes then can you help expand it a bit? It stands at 333 characters now, If it crosses 1500, it can be nominated for DYK (Possible hook: "that Henry Scholberg edited the only bibliography of its kind about Indian Manuals and gazetteers? or some variant) Solomon7968 18:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It looks like I can see refs 3 and 4 but not 2 or 5, which both says that the doi is screwed up. - Sitush (talk) 18:59, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Click on the URL not DOI (if the JSTOR URL is something like http://www.jstor.org/stable/XYZ then the DOI is 10.2307/XYZ by default, don't ask me why) Solomon7968 19:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
OK. I'll fix those cites first. - Sitush (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes. It is crap, imo. For starters, it does funny things with the |page parameter. And the metadata is often not right. - Sitush (talk) 16:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Redirecting Renuka Datla
Dear Sir, I opine that the way in which the redirecting of page: Renuka Datla to Biological E. Limited is being done is not legitimate. Please look into it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 53harishkv (talk • contribs) 16:53, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
See my reply earlier on the article talk page. Notability is not inherited - just because she is a director of the company doesn't mean that all of the company's actions can be assigned to her. You need decent sources that discuss her in depth. - Sitush (talk) 16:59, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Notability is not inherited - She is also a philanthropist and an active member of Andhra Mahila Sabha. She is also one of the leading surgeon of Andhra Pradesh.
53harishkv (talk) 17:06, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
I am not arguing with you here. You've been warned and you seem to be intent on continuing to reinstate that dreadful material. A block will follow, as sure as night follows day. - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
And now you've got at least two meatpuppets or similar involved? Please stop. - Sitush (talk) 21:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Just leave it be, Sitush; the AfD will run its course. I'll block if needs be, if the SPI doesn't take care of it first. Drmies (talk) 00:43, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I filed the SPI and I think I'd tend towards a redirect for the AfD. The timestamp on my last message above is several hours late ;) I've had a lot of dramas today and I forgot to sign, which is pretty rare for me. - Sitush (talk) 00:49, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, Sitush. Anyway, it could be worse--you could be watching The Invasion, which is a bit scary. I wish Bishzilla were here to hold my hand. Drmies (talk) 02:50, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Regarding subhash ware please explain on what basis you deleted his association with sm joshi foundation when the last refernce takes to SMjoshi website where he is listed as trustee Smileamiledr (talk) 23:33, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
I haven't deleted his association with the Foundation, although I'm not sure that it is anything more than a factoid because I've no idea what the Foundation actually is. It could be about as notable as my local Scout group, for all I know. The article says "Subhash Ware is secretary of the S M Joshi Socialist Foundation.[7]" - Sitush (talk) 23:39, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
. You can yank those bugs out easily enough BTW, although from the arse perhaps the vet was a good shout, coulda been messy. Happy new year for when it arrives. Darkness Shines (talk) 00:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
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Like. Lol. I've not been to ANI for at least a month. Mind you, I wasn't editing during that month either. - Sitush (talk) 14:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
sigh... He seems fixated on that one quote: "That claim has been pushed tendentiously on Wikipedia by self-identified community members, usually by citing Roberts, and we really do need to put a stop to this."
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Sarveshwar Dayal Saxena may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
I recall you mentioning you had JSTOR access, as RP has not been around for a while I was hoping you could check to see if you can nab a few papers for me? I am after The Secret Young-Turk Ittihadist Conference and the Decision for the World War I Genocide of the Armenians Holocaust Genocide Studies (1993) 7 (2): 173-201.
doi: 10.1093/hgs/7.2.173 And maybe a few more if you do have access, or any of your TPS? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Salvio Let's talk about it! 17:10, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
