User talk:Stepho-wrs

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Hullo. Please Click Here to leave me a new message. Please see my user page for more information about me.

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Scion iQ EV[edit]

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C3 Picasso (yes...again)[edit]

I'm crap with engine specs Stepho and i was trying to create a table of them like on a lot of auto articles. The problem is the terms are a bit different to those i recognise and understand (Displacement??? torque???). I've managed almost one which i'll post up here for you to see:

I've managed the start but all my stuff is in miles because, well, it's European. Are you able to do this fairly easily and in miles rather than kilometres? Sources i've been using are: C3 Picasso,Parkers,Citroen,Perry's. I'm just not able to do this too easily and i've spend 3.5 hours on it so far. I know you can work your magic on it like with the Euro NCAP tables if you have the time. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 14:04, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I reckon i can do the rest if i have an example, that's why i've only given you 1 of the 5 engines (the basic one). Thanks Jenova20 (email) 14:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Not 100% sure of what you want but I think the follow examples might work (look at the code as well as the output).
  • 145 km/h (90 mph)
  • 100 mph (160 km/h)
  • 90 mph
  • 90
  • 100 N·m (74 lbf·ft)
  • 100 cc (6.1 cu in)
  • 100 cc (6 cu in)
  • 100 cc (6.1 cu in)
  • 100 cc (6.10 cu in)
  • 1,601 cc (97.7 cu in)
  • 1,600 cc (98 cu in)
  • 1,600 cc (98 cu in)
  • 1,600 cc (97.6 cu in)
  • 1,600 cc (97.64 cu in)
  • 100 cu in (1,600 cc)
  • 100 kW (130 bhp)
  • 100 bhp (75 kW)
Beware that convert does auto rounding. If you give it a large number with 2 zeroes at the end than it will try to make the output also have 2 zeroes. Use |0| to force rounding to no decimal digits, |1| for 1 digit after the decimal point, etc.  Stepho  talk  23:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Cool, I mean could you fill in the missing entries in the table i posted up so i can see what i need to do for the other 4 engines i need to add to it. That's if you don't mind. The conversion figures are a big help too though.
Tell me to **** off if i'm asking too much, i don't mind and we're all busy. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 23:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Petrol engine
Model Engine Displacement
cc (ci)
kW (hp)
Nm (lbf·ft)
0–100 km/h,s Top speed
km/h (mph)
Note CO
emission (g/km)
1.4 L VTi 16v I4 1,600 (98) 100 (134) 100 (74) 15 145 (90) when metric values are known 137
1.4 L VTi 16v I4 1,606 (98) 100 (134) 100 (74) 15 145 (90) when imperial values are known
That's brilliant Stepho =D
You've outdone yourself! I just hope i can replicate it four times now. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 08:32, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm actually managing quite well now thanks to your examples and list of conversions =D
I've a bit more to do but you've been incredibly helpful! Jenova20 (email) 15:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome.  Stepho  talk  15:08, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Typ932 is helping and the Peer Review has kicked in =D
If not for you this article wouldn't even be at GA yet so thank you for the help you gave me along the way Stepho Jenova20 (email) 17:23, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
That's the idea of a co-operative encyclopaedia. Together we make something better than either of us could.  Stepho  talk  00:36, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Hey Stepho, what do i convert inches to in the case of the C3 Picasso? Thanks Jenova20 (email) 11:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Millimetres? Thanks Jenova20 (email) 11:27, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
{{convert|2540|mm|inch|1|abbr=on}} → 2,540 mm (100.0 in)
{{convert|100.0|inch|mm|0|abbr=on|disp=flip}} → 2,540 mm (100.0 in)

Tada! Most units you can type in the well-known names or abbreviations (eg mm, inch, cc, kg, lb, ...)  Stepho  talk  12:21, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I actually managed to figure that one out =D
Next question though...does it matter if i list inches first with millimetres in brackets? No-one measures wheel trims in millimetres or advertises like that so i'd like to preserve the readability. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 12:34, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Oops, forgot to answer. Generally, the article should consistently put mm first (or inches first for American or older British articles). But in the special case of wheel rim sizes I'd just put inches only, without mm at all.  Stepho  talk  22:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that response. I already converted the figure but i'm glad you agree on the need for a realistic figure first there. Thanks again Jenova20 (email) 00:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Stepho i can't work out the 0–100 km/h,s...the first i have is the 1.4 VTi engine and it gets from 0-62mph in 12.2 seconds...but how do i use that? Thanks Jenova20 (email) 13:31, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure I understand the question but maybe this helps.
  • 0–100 km/h (0–62 mph) in 12 seconds
  • 0–97 km/h (0–60 mph) in 12 seconds
If you have a mix of references (some giving 0-100kmh, some giving 0-60mph) then there is no possible formula to convert them (can't assume constant acceleration) but they are close enough to just equate them (ie we can live with the 3% error).  Stepho  talk  14:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
That's what i wanted to hear =D
Thank you Stepho! Jenova20 (email) 15:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Just a note on rounding - one can also use "sigfig=3" (or whatever number) to round to a certain number of significant figures, rather than a certain number of decimals. For me it's usually useful when calculating torque, viz:
200 N·m (20.4 kg·m; 147.5 lb·ft) {{convert|200|Nm|kgm lbft|1|abbr=on}}
200 N·m (20 kg·m; 148 lb·ft) {{convert|200|Nm|kgm lbft|0|abbr=on}}
200 N·m (20.4 kg·m; 148 lb·ft) {{convert|200|Nm|kgm lbft|sigfig=3|abbr=on}}
Conversion templates can be massaged to say whatever one wants, really: 0 kg·m (200 N·m) {{convert|200|Nm|kgm|-2|abbr=on|disp=flip}}  Mr.choppers | ✎  19:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
That's a bit technical for me...I'm surviving on copy+paste here Mr.Choppers!! Thanks, it is appreciated! Jenova20 (email) 22:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
What is this archaic cc all about? what about cm3? 1,600 cm3 (97.6 cu in). Peter Horn User talk 04:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
What's archaic about abbreviating cm3 (ie cubic centimetre) as cc? It's certainly common in books/manuals/brochures. But at least it isn't based on the size of somebody's foot like our common enemy uses :)  Stepho  talk  04:46, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
It is true what you say, certainly and especially in older manuals. The current trend appears to be to give the engine size in litres, at least in Canada. So 1,600 cc = 1.6 L (97.6 cu in). Australia, G. B. and N. Z. appear to be getting on with metrication. When I was in London I personally noted that a carpet or tile merchant on Pearly Way in Croydon was selling his wares my the m2. This is not yet true in Canada. There are even small stores that still insist selling cloth by the yard rather than by the metre! Meat is supposed to be retailed per kg, but some still insist in selling it by the pound, weighed on scales that are calibrated in lb only! I "fixed the clock" of one of such meat market chains by reporting them to the competent authorities and not too long after that the pounds only scales came to be replaced. There is also a large lumber retailer, I have to recheck which one, that posts as sign in French "Here we only measure in imperial"!!. I sill have to "fix their clock". Peter Horn User talk 20:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
The only real difference between cc and litres (not the spelling) is the accuracy. Most of the cars in Australia are specified in litres when talking in broad terms (ie the 1.3 L engined Yaris vs the 1.5 L engined Prius vs the 5.8 L V8 Holden) but are specified in cc in the brochure/manual specifications section. Both are metric and we choose according to the precision wanted. Very few things in Australia are specified in imperial (car wheel rims being the only example that comes to mind). Even meat and lumber are now sold in metric. I was born in the year we went metric (1966). I was taught metric in school but was surrounded by adults who talked in feet and inches, so I'm a bit of hybrid - I have to remember to talk in cm when talking to the younger members of staff :)  Stepho  talk  23:07, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) We're taught Metric and Imperial at school in England, with most, except greengrocers, preferring to deal only in Metric. I've always assumed it was because the EU has attempted to force change on us that we've kept both systems in use in certain places. I remember a while back that some market traders and grocers refused to bow to their demands and caused a kerfuffle (and eventually won). Every car over here though tends to be 1.4 this or 1.6 that just as Peter says Jenova20 (email) 11:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Problem Editor[edit]

I have noticed a string of highly problematic edits by user Carmaker1:[1]. As with Volvo V70, Nissan Murano, Audi 100 and Honda Odyssey (North America), he inserts the names of car designers based on missing, misleading or spurious references. In the Volvo V70 article, he inserted the name of a dubious designer into an article in such a way as to leave a direct and referenced quote by the actual designer attributed to his newly introduced spurious designer. And from what I can tell, he's pretty much blazing a trail through lots and lots of articles. His responses are... well... not helpful, to say the least. I notice that you ran into some similar issues with him recently. Is this something you could help with?842U (talk)

July 2013[edit]

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  • Whitewebbs Musuem website. []]

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  01:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


Your Toyota website does not mention the T Echo and the T Yaris, which are very popular in Canada. Peter Horn User talk 03:28, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Peter, That's mostly because I'm only interested in the older RWD platforms (ie Celica, Cornw, Corona and Corolla) up to the mid 1980's. If I ever pulled my finger out and brought the pages into modern times (ie FWD times) then the Echo/Yaris/Vitz/etc would be on the embryonic Publica/Starlet page (the P platform). But the time I was spending keeping my pages up-to-date sort of got transferred to Wikipedia.  Stepho  talk  04:12, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Model Years[edit]

According to the Photo of the Toyota Sequoia that I've chosen, it is both the model and calander year for Canada. Seqqis (talk) 19:34, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. But I prefer to avoid using dates in captions unless strictly needed. Dates can easily be confused between model years and calendar years, so if the exact year is important but can be misinterpreted by a whole year then it isn't really doing its job. It can safely be assumed that a photo in a '2008-present' section is in fact a photo of a 2008-present vehicle. Similarly, photos can be marked as pre-facelift or post-facelift. Rarely do the readers need to know if it is a 2007, 2008 or 2009 vehicle. In the case of your recent photo, stating that the photo was taken at the 2011 Montreal International Auto Show is all the date information it needs and totally avoids the conflict between calendar year and model year.  Stepho  talk  22:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


You wrote: "Thank you for the reference you added at Tesla Motors. Could you also remember to format them the same way as other references in the article - in this case by using .. cite news .. " Thanks, Stepho ... you caught my shoddy work before I got back to fixing it ... I was looking for info @ the Tesla page and saw it incomplete, so ... bad of me. --Johnconorryan (talk) 01:27, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

No problem.  Stepho  talk  03:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

linking on currency template[edit]

Re your comment: please do. My unlinking is in response to the imminent DYK postings, but the underlying concern is WP:OVERLINK.

My edit should be reinstated. The US dollar, Euro and Pound Sterling rarely need to be linked, unlike the rest of the currencies. These former should be unlinked by default, but I have no objections to linking for the others. A parameter to control linking would be welcome, but the starting point (default) ought to be where US dollar, Euro and Pound Sterling and maybe the Japanese yen are unlinked, and anybody wanting links can switch these on. Thanks. -- Ohc ¡digame!¿que pasa? 23:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I will work towards adding a link=yes/no parameter. However, I believe that all the currencies should have the same default. The editor placing it can make a judgment call about whether it should be turned on or off. It also makes the template much, much simpler to have them all using the same default.  Stepho  talk  05:14, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Template documentation[edit]

Regarding your recent revert of my edits at Template:Official websites, I disagree with the fact that a template documentation is meant to show what happens when that template is used incorrectly. The second example is unnecessary also because it is up to the contributor to use either a compact version of it or the one that spreads on multiple lines. Since the result is the same, it is unnecessary to give two identical examples. The code for these examples is not shown as well, but even so, two examples with identical results are not necessary. Also, you reverted other useful edits as well which shouldn't be reverted, such as the section header, the removal of the unnecessary additional line break and the common description for the see also links directing to other templates. For these latter edits please consider checking other template documentations, in order to see that the style is commonly used. As for the non-breaking space, I agree it is not the proper solution, but in the current form the space is not displayed either. I don't think we should get into an edit war and I kindly ask you to consider my arguments. Thank you. Regards, BaboneCar (talk) 06:53, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Answered at template talk:Official websites/doc.  Stepho  talk  13:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Caterham Curb Weight[edit]

Sorry, i change again before i read your text. Sorry about that, i change back to CSR — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thadeucity (talkcontribs) 05:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

No problem, although in your changes the '7' got dropped. I restored it for you. Thanks for letting me know what's happening.  Stepho  talk  06:06, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Hyperloop revision[edit]

I agree with your revision of the Hyperloop article. "serial entrepreneur" is unnecessary. However, I'd argue that it wasn't an incorrect statement by the IP editor. Musk cofounded Paypal, SpaceX, and Tesla, and conceptualized SolarCity. Even ignoring SolarCity (while he's chairman of the board he's not too involved in the day to day operations), just how many currently existing companies does one person have to start before they're considered "serial"? — Gopher65talk 00:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't the correctness that I was worried about, only the unnecessary verbiage. Saying 'serial entrepreneur' is a bit like saying 'successful gold medal athlete' - if he won a gold medal then he's already considered successful, so the adjective is unnecessary. Likewise, a successful entrepreneur rarely stops at one business. If they did then they're unlikely to be called an entrepreneur. So the 'serial' adjective is not required and just makes the sentence longer for no reason.  Stepho  talk  03:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Ah, gotcha:). Makes sense. — Gopher65talk 16:10, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013[edit]

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  • Musk revealed the details of the system] on August 12, 2013 via a PDF posted to the Tesla and SpaceX blogs.<ref name="AlphaSpaceX"/><ref

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Fixed by another editor.  Stepho  talk  01:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Hyperloop talkback[edit]

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I agree with your statement, and have attempted to move the ball forward. N2e (talk) 18:09, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

... although the ball is in your court to actually expand the technical section as you suggested. Cheers. N2e (talk) 18:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm quite busy for the next few days, so I'll just be chipping in with simple stuff in the meantime.  Stepho  talk  23:35, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


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Dates - Toyota Vios[edit]

Hi Stepho,

With respect to this edit, it is my understanding that we are now meant to write dates in references as 22 January 2013 rather than 2013-01-22, etc. OSX (talkcontributions) 10:57, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Referencing_for_beginners#Date_format, three formats are preferred:
  • 22 January 2013
  • January 22, 2013
  • 2013-01-22
MOS:DATEUNIFY says reference dates should all be in a consistent format and WP:STRONGNAT says reference dates can be yyyy-mm-dd even if the article is in a different format. New references should match the already existing reference, so I matched them. Although I get a bit grumpy in the edit summary when editors don't follow a rather obvious pattern :)  Stepho  talk  13:05, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Ok thanks for clarifying. I've seen bots going around doing conversions and the Template:Cite web does preference with full dates. Regards, OSX (talkcontributions) 09:07, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, some of those bots don't differentiate between dates in the article text and dates in the references. I often have to revert them.  Stepho  talk  09:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Not a Toyota[edit]

Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R manufactured 1995 first registered in UK April 2006 declared engine capacity 2560cc.JPG
I know it's not a Toyota and if you think this is a colossal cheek too far then (1) I see what you mean and (2) feel free to read no further. BUT nothing ventured nothing gained....

Do you by any chance know what this is? I've had a guess, but I'm not at all sure I got it right. It was first registered in the UK about ten years after manufacture which is quite a common thing with Japanese desirable cars - the ones that don't end up in Australia anyhow - because we all drive on the left and sit on the right. But I don't think I ever saw one of these before and I'm not sure, checking out what I can find about it in wikipedia, whether it was ever sold anywhere in Europe or North America.

Well, if you can help thank you and if you can't thank you for thinking about it. Best wishes Charles01 (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

It's an Nissan Skyline#R33 (as given in the file name) but beyond that I couldn't tell you which grade/option.  Stepho  talk  22:15, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you much. Regards Charles01 (talk) 07:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


My revisions were correct: wartime aero engines had mechanically driven dynamic compressors that absorbed a lot of engine power. It is the drive type, not compressor type, that primarily determines engine losses.

You say "Paragraph is about positive displacement superchargers, as opposed to Roots type superchargers" which is incorrect (Roots are blowers) and the section is about superchargers vs turbochargers.

DesmondW (talk) 21:24, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

My apologies. I mistakenly thought those paragraphs were comparing different types of mechanically driven superchargers.  Stepho  talk  22:20, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Not at all, it's good to know that someone is keeping the rest of us in check! DesmondW (talk) 11:45, 9 September 2013 (UTC)


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N2e (talk) 03:39, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Half-track revert[edit]


Regarding this edit: please read WP:LEAD. The lead section is supposed to be a fully summary of the article's key points: details may be left to the article body, but must be at least brought up in the lead. Instead, the present lead (two sentences) does only the barest minimum to provide context, and in fact the material that it does cover should probably have a section to itself in the article. Hence the cleanup tag. The article is still quite a distance from GA status and tags help to get the more straightforward bits of the required work to get articles there done more quickly. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Chris,
I agree that tags are good. However, in this case, I'm at a loss to see what more it needs. The existing lead covers the topic but leaves the detail for later. But if you can make a specific suggestion as to what more it needs then I'd be happy to reconsider my position.  Stepho  talk  22:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

2009–11 Toyota vehicle recalls[edit]

Re: this

1. The short scale is used by virtually every English-speaking people and is accepted across the entire Wikimedia project. Even the Toyota article itself uses billion as 109 without ambiguity.
2. The template was not serving a purpose, to my knowledge. I didn't see it mentioned at MOS:CURRENCY so it did not seem necessary.
If you want to reinstate the template, that's fine. I don't think it changes the text at all. However, "$1000 million" causes needless confusion, in my opinion. Is there any official Wikipedia policy on short and long scale? American Eagle (talk) 08:47, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

You are right that officially, all primarily English speaking countries use the short scale. However, some countries are still in a transition period. In my country (Australia), the change was only made recently and those of us born in the 1960s or 1970s have to stop and think about which scale is being used - or even worse, not think about and get the wrong scale. Readers from much of Europe (most of which uses the long scale) also have to stop and think twice. Since most people can understand what 900 million means, it takes only the smallest leap of intelligence to figure out what 1000 million means, even if it is the first time the reader has seen it in that form. I find this more preferable than leaving it ambiguous.  Stepho  talk  21:20, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm not concerned about it, but you're going to have a difficult time trying to convince all of Wikipedia to adapt to your method. I believe it's standard practice on this wiki to use the short scale, but I cannot find it on the MoS. Just so you know, "$1000 million" is confusing for 99% of English readers, in the same way you'd be initially puzzled by "$1000 thousand." American Eagle (talk) 03:57, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
I looked at the policies and found WP:NUM#Large numbers. Unfortunately for me, WP has decided that the short scale is official. This worries me because it is ambiguous and I really hate ambiguity. But I'm not keen to start a battle I'm likely to lose.
Out of curiosity, do the 99% of English readers that have difficulty with "1000 million" come from multiple countries or was it a straw poll among American acquaintances? I ask only because when people say 'everyone' it often really means 'everyone in my local culture'.
Anyway, you can change it back to billion if you want and I won't contest it.  Stepho  talk  10:53, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Aligning all text in a table[edit]

Hey Stepho, i just finished the table of engines at Citroën C4 Picasso#Engines. Unfortunately, now i've collapsed it some of the rowspans have conflicted and the text in some columns is not in the centre any more. Do you know how to fix this without adding a tonne of code to each cell? Thanks Jenova20 (email) 09:52, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Tables get complex real quick - it took many previews to figure out what was needed. I removed all the individual centring and made each row default to align="center".  Stepho  talk  22:59, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Have a nice day Jenova20 (email) 08:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013[edit]

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  20:58, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

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  • hours (18.7 kWh) at 312 volts, and increased the EV1's range to {{convert|100|mi|km|abbr=out|0}}). Soon after the rollout of the second generation cars, the originally intended [[nickel metal

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  04:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

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  • approved the national space program for 2006 to 2015 with a budget of {{currency|305 billion|RUB}} (about {{currency|11 billion|USD}} - the whole budget for the 10-year period will be {{currency|425

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  06:37, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Euro NCAP tables[edit]

Hey Stepho-wrs, i'm having a little alignment problem with the NCAP tables at Citroen C4 Picasso. Can you take a look? I'm also having the old issue with the references too...they don't look right. Hopefully you can work your usual magic for me. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 11:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I can't explain why the alignment didn't work. I can only say that alignment is only really meant to put a single Euro NCAP result on the left or right of the page - it wasn't really designed to put multiple results across the page. Instead, I used a table and put each result into its own cell.
The references have trouble when spaces are part of the name - use names without spaces. After 2006, use |reference_code=520 (where 520 is the code taken from the URL and the template will generally do the rest for you. For multiple results you also have to add |reference_name=EuroNCAP2013 (using unique name/years for each result) due to a bug that I am having trouble fixing.  Stepho  talk  14:09, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Mighty Stepho has trouble fixing bugs in tables?? Who are you and how did you hijack Stepho's account? =P
Thanks a lot for the help Jenova20 (email) 15:34, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Your comment[edit]

MOS:DATEFORMAT, and WP:CIVIL are your problem. TEDickey (talk) 23:28, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I get a bit grumbly when I have to repair the same thing in article after article and I do apologise for my tone. But ask yourself, is it really that hard to see what everyone else is doing and try to match it? Afterall, you've already admitted that you know about MOS:DATEFORMAT and just below it is MOS:DATEUNIFY which says 'Publication dates in article references should all have the same format.'  Stepho  talk  23:38, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I've had enough...[edit]

I've had enough of the disruptive editing from What do you think—initiate a request for a permanent block? The latest: incorrectly tagging a Euro-spec car as US-spec, even though it was correctly tagged in the first place. As we have discussed previously, this is typical of the frivolous editing style from this editor. OSX (talkcontributions) 09:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

His IP address is from Japan and his talk page has Japanese characters. Judging from his behavior, he is a Japanese teenager. He doesn't seem to being doing outright, deliberate vandalism but doesn't seem to recognize when he screws things up. Part of growing up is learning not to damage public property. He's been given lots of warnings and I know he reads his talk page, so I'm okay with blocking him for a month or two.  Stepho  talk  10:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

5th generation Celica[edit]

The actual overall width of wide body Liftback is 1745 mm, US brochure shows 68.7 in. So if the conversion is 1740 mm then it's wrong. The normal body width 1690 - 1705 mm, I think the bigger number is with side moldings which most of them have. talk  07:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I found the problem. {{convert}} was being allowed to chooses it's own level of rounding and in this case it choose to round in lots of 10mm. But we can force it to the level of rounding that we prefer.
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on}} → 68.7 in (1,740 mm) - tool chooses
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on|-1}} → 68.7 in (1,740 mm) - force 10's
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on|0}} → 68.7 in (1,745 mm) - force 1's
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on|0|disp=5}} → 68.7 in (1,745 mm) - rounds to 5's instead of 1's.
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on|0|disp=flip}} → 1,745 mm (68.7 in) - force to 1's, mm first
{{convert|68.7|in|mm|abbr=on|1}} → 68.7 in (1,745.0 mm) - force 0.1's
Convert is better when the input value is the same as the value in the reference - it makes it easier to verify and also prevents double rounding (which is when you take inches from the reference, manually convert to mm, enter that value into the template and then let the template do a second conversion back to inches, which causes some interesting round off errors). We can force the level of rounding (see above examples) and we can also flip the display order by using |disp=flip.  Stepho  talk  00:52, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
One more useful one: "sigfig" is particularly good for double conversions, viz:
{{convert|68.7|lbft|Nm kgm|sigfig=2|abbr=on}} → 68.7 lb·ft (93 N·m; 9.5 kg·m), much better than:
{{convert|68.7|lbft|Nm kgm|0|abbr=on}} → 68.7 lb·ft (93 N·m; 9 kg·m) or letting the tool choose:
{{convert|68.7|lbft|Nm kgm|abbr=on}} → 68.7 lb·ft (93.1 N·m; 9.50 kg·m)
Great for torque conversions, but also good when using cc, L, and cuin in a single conversion. Didn't know about the "round to 5", that's good to know.  Mr.choppers | ✎  04:44, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


I would have thought you had waaay more than 12,500 edits. Are you counting your edits from other projects, Commons etcetera? Anyhow, they're also 12,500 useful edits so cheers!  Mr.choppers | ✎  04:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Nope, average of only 5 edits per day over the last 7.5 years. I rarely stray outside of the main space and even there I mostly stay in Toyota articles or flinging mud in the automobile project. But at Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits I see that Trekphiler is the 808th top editor, Mariordo is 2928, OSX is 3096, you are 3651 and I just scrap in at 4893.  Stepho  talk  23:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Great, now I gotta catch OSX.  Mr.choppers | ✎  06:26, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps the 114 edits an hour I did this morning will help. If only I could keep that level up for a month :)  Stepho  talk  09:18, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Electric car pic[edit]

Hi Stepho. Congrats on your Tutnum. I married young, so my children are all grown ups, thus, I usually can manage to do more than 5 edits per day, particularly on weekends. I would like to know your opinion, before opening a formal discussion about this picture as a candidate for the lead of the electric car article. It is the closest I have found to your criteria, even though the angle and composition is not the best, but at least it shows the two of the three top selling highway-capable electric cars in the world.--Mariordo (talk) 04:18, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

PS: There are some other options from Norway here. Please take a look! Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 05:18, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
I like the suggested photo (except for being dark and the nose of the Leaf being cut off) and with the changing marketplace it is also more relevant than the existing lead image. Sorry for stalking.  Mr.choppers | ✎  06:08, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
No worries about stalking - I'll just put thicker curtains on my bathroom windows :)
I'm starting to feel like the Club of Rome - doom and gloom with every word I speak. I'm not keen on 4507] - power cord looks like a clothesline messily thrown across the car, bright blue train and second car are distracting and they can't be easily cropped, cars are kind of dark and nondescript. 4275 is much better. 3974 isn't too bad, if a little grey. 2261 is interesting but cryptic on first glance. 2233 is good, if slightly out of focus. Of course, mine is only one (noisy) opinion.  Stepho  talk  07:38, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your opinions guys, I really appreciate your feedback. I will keep looking. --Mariordo (talk) 14:13, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Headinganchor[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Headinganchor has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 16:52, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Toyota LiteAce and TownAce[edit]

Mr.choppers and I are currently discussing the potential merger of the Toyota LiteAce and TownAce pages. I have created a proposal at User:OSX/Toyota LiteAce. Please feel free to join in as our resident guru on this brand. OSX (talkcontributions) 05:40, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I've been watching you conversation for the past couple of days but don't really have much of an opinion myself. I'll also be away from computers for the next couple of days.  Stepho  talk  07:02, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Ok. No worries. Cheers OSX (talkcontributions) 07:32, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Toyota Century[edit]

Apparently what you said contradicts with what's in the article of the second generation Century: " This current model is powered by a 280 PS (206 kW; 276 hp) 5.0 L 1GZ-FE V12, initially with a 4-speed automatic, and then a 6-speed "intelligent" transmission. "---Now wiki (talk) 00:19, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. The current model is definitely only 6-speed but I will double check what was in earlier models. Cheers.  Stepho  talk  02:45, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Looks like I was wrong. shows several 4 speed autos from 1990 to 2004, with the 6-speed arriving in 2005. My apologies.  Stepho  talk  06:01, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
No problem. I'm going to amend it. Cheers.---Now wiki (talk) 23:28, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

September 1978-December 1993 Mustang[edit]

I am very glad I took a major breather, before even possibly believing you questionably accused me of vandalism (unlike my edits w/o sources). I have been following your wise advice you gave me to the letter, regarding model and calendar years in the Toyota/Lexus articles and will also work harder on finding better sources for my contributions. I felt a bit uneasy about the section headings for the Mustang and I now know to leave them a certain way for U.S. market only articles. I also have stressed the use of certain propositions that do not imply a model year as a real time date of introduction, but have been questionably challenged. It is very peculiar that I focus on timelines for cars, but one simply hopes to dispel unfounded accusations towards automakers regarding copying and providing insight into history. Not that you have to even acknowledge it, but I apologize for those terrible uncivil edit summaries from me during last year and prior. I would've said that sooner, but didn't believe I had a foot to stand on after my earlier conduct in 2011-12. Carmaker1 (talk) 00:38, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

No worries about our past disagreements - too tell the truth, I keep forgetting who I've had differences with. I just like to get on the job of improving WP, whether it requires me to educate somebody or for somebody to educate me. At one time I wanted to abolish model years altogether (still do) but the yanks cried so much I had to back off a bit.  Stepho  talk  02:56, 31 October 2013 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for sorting things out for me. Unfortunately, it seems like Toyota deletes their press releases after 5 years so I can't confirm the actual production numbers, the forum was the best I could find stating the Press Release. Now I'm kind of interested maybe I'll email Toyota North America and see if they'll disclose it. I've heard that some Toyota dealers were not aware the car existed (I've have problems getting wrong parts at the dealer in the past as parts come up for the S). From my knowledge it is the 3rd least produced sport compact in North America behind the Acura Integra Type-R and Mazdaspeed Protege. Other information about the Corolla XRS, comes from my knowledge and engineering background of owning the car which I tried to back up with the magazine articles.


Jordan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exage0304 (talkcontribs) 19:26, 2 November 2013 (UTC)


Financial data in US$. Source: Bloomberg Businessweek website.— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:37, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Could you be a bit more specific. Thanks.  Stepho  talk  22:47, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Toyota in Bloomberg Businessweek website[edit]

1- Write in Google:

2- Click in Toyota Motor Corp-Spon ADR. Thanks. Cgx8253.

Thanks for the URL. I checked the currency numbers and the USD amounts published by Bloomberg agreed with the yen amounts published by Toyota (very roughly, 100 yen = 1 USD), so I left the yen amounts there in order to avoid currency exchange issues. However, I did update the number of employees to agree with Toyota's March 2013 figure.  Stepho  talk  09:15, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


Just found a new photo by the excellent TTTNIS, which I already incorporated at Toyota Corolla (E30), but when I tried to find the 1400 Van model code on your site I noticed it was missing from the charts! The Horror! This page has more codes for you. Toodles,  Mr.choppers | ✎  07:45, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Dag-nab-it - you're right! My sources show 8 variants of the 1400 30 series van - every combo of 2/3-door, deluxe/high-deluxe and auto/manual. Guess I must have been tired the day I typed them in. Thanks for the heads up.  Stepho  talk  08:23, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I figured you'd like to be made aware. I also adjusted the intro date of the E70 in its article, it was March 1979 for Japan with August '79 marking the beginning of export (production?). G'nite,  Mr.choppers | ✎  08:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
And good pickup on the March '79 date.  Stepho  talk  08:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Volkswagen T1 and 2[edit]

Hi, think you were right concerning the volkswagen T2 on that page. I made a mistake in the type and T designations. Will not intervene any further :-) , thanks Jobbew (talk) 10:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

No worries - anyone can make a mistake. Stick around.  Stepho  talk  11:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

MG Cars[edit]

Hi Stepho-wrs. Would you care to give an opinion on the value or otherwise of this latest edit? Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm inclined to leave the opinions off. They detract from the TD by calling it too American and detract from the TF by sounding snobbish. If you leave them in then they need to be explicitly reference by a few very reliable sources (e.g. not just a throw away comment in some opinion column in a magazine) and also explain why it was thought to be too American (width? smaller pressed steel wheels? LHD?) and how the TF then difference from this. In my opinion, these differences (and supporting references) belong in the MG T-type article, not in the MG Cars article.  Stepho  talk  03:43, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Forcing Convert to Lua early[edit]

There has been talk, today, to circumvent the 30-day RfC and immediately switch Template:Convert to use the Lua version (with known bugs), as an update on 11 December 2013 (to reformat over 2 weeks). The documentation has not been fully updated, and there has not been a systemwide announcement, so I am just warning people individually (after anger about VisualEditor installed without enough warning). Several people have tested the Lua Convert to ensure general usability, and we fixed about 600 pages with incompatible Convert options. Meanwhile, I have fixed {Convert} (or Convert/old) for precision in ranges:

The plans for early force to Lua are:

After roll-out, any edit to Lua Module:Convert, to fix bugs or improve precision, will re-trigger the systemwide reformatting of all 554,000 pages, again and again. -Wikid77 20:19, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

  • what you say seems to make sense: that it's worth taking the time to get it right first time, but those assembled at the talk page have considered the pros and cons. They voted in favour massively and you the sole dissenter.. I know little about the subject, but you seem to imply a heavy compilation penalty if there are any bugs that need to be fixed, but could u quantify how heavy a real burden is recalculating half a million pages? are we talking hours or weeks? -- Ohc ¡digame! 12:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
I think you might have the wrong guy. I've been watching the Convert Lua discussion from the sidelines but haven't contributed. I do embedded programming rather than server-side.  Stepho  talk  13:51, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


I just passed by to tell u that i very much like your philosophy to life and work. Have a good one! -- Ohc ¡digame! 12:18, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, much appreciated.  Stepho  talk  14:10, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

IP 190.96.*.* introducing errors on Lexus RX[edit]

Hello. I noticed that you have reverted a couple of IPs in that range on Lexus RX. FYI it's a long term IP-hopping vandal in Santiago, Chile, doing it. As well as doing the same thing, i.e. introducing deliberate factual errors, on many other articles. So if it happens again please issue a proper user warning for unsourced edits to him/her on his/her talkpage, and check if he/she has also vandalised other articles. Just so the vandal knows that someone is keeping an eye on what's happening here. Thomas.W talk to me 14:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I notice him vandalising a few other pages in a similar style with similar IP addresses. He's probably doing it from internet cafes. Luckily he made a few mistakes, making it easy to spot. Thanks for reverting the Starship articles he vandalised.  Stepho  talk  15:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

G-Book implementation[edit]

As with most technology developed by Japanese manufacturers, G-Book is first introduced in Japan with variations being introduced internationally. In North America, a G-Book variation is called Entune, with other similar approaches used or to be introduced internationally in the near future.(Regushee (talk) 23:52, 29 December 2013 (UTC))

True, but you said all of the 2004-present HiAce models have G-book. Does that mean every country and all from 2004. Or is it only some countries from 2004 and other countries from a few years later? Or possibly Japan had it later than 2004 (ie not at model intro time) and other countries had it even later? And us poor Aussies still don't have it at all today - a Bluetooth, MP3/CD player is standard but satnav is an extra accessory ( and true telemetrics are not available at all. Also, how closely related are G-Book and Entune? Is Entune a minor variation on G-Book or is it merely a close relatively suing similar technology?  Stepho  talk  00:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that the HiAce was sold in Australia, based on the information in the article. G-Book is Toyota's telematics platform, and with most Japanese developed technology, they modify it based on international conditions and infrastructure. Meaning, if Australia doesn't have G-Book or something like it, it's reasonable to assume they're working on something and it's on the way. G-Book is an option, but based on the platform, the more vehicles have it, the better information that is gathered and retransmitted to subscribers. (Regushee (talk) 02:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC))

January 2014[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Bugatti Veyron may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s and 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
  • by 2010 Monterey Historic Races at Laguna Seca, 2010 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance.<ref>[ |
  • 10 mph less than world record |work=World Car Fans |date=17 October 2010 |accessdate=6 January 2014}}</ref>

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 22:55, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Fixed  Stepho  talk  23:00, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 23:54, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 23:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Daihatsu Delta[edit]

I turned Daihatsu Delta from a redirect into a DAB page, since I was rather confused of where it should redirect to. Now all we need is a few more pictures! Feel free to add a source or more content if you have it.  Mr.choppers | ✎  01:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree with your change - there is no single page it could redirect to. However, it should use spelt out months (eg Mar 1971 – Nov 1982).  Stepho  talk  02:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I have updated the Delta and Toyota LiteAce pages removing references to the D10 and D20 vans based on the LiteAce M10 and M20. I was unable to find any references for vans, but found many listings for trucks. Likewise, with the Delta Wide (B10) models based on the TownAce (R10), I was only able to locate information on the van models. I was wondering if either of you have information contradicting this?. OSX (talkcontributions) 09:54, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I've got plenty of Toyota info but practically no Daihatsu info.  Stepho  talk  13:11, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Tesla BlueStar merger proposal[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Stepho-wrs. You have new messages at Talk:Tesla Motors.
Message added 03:45, 13 January 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

N2e (talk) 03:45, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

By the way, the specific section that I though you might have an interest in is Talk:Tesla_Motors#Merger_proposal. Cheers. N2e (talk) 16:01, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm 50/50 about that, so I'm content to watch from the sidelines. Thanks for the notification.  Stepho  talk  21:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Fuel injection[edit]

I noticed that you reverted all my contributions to the fuel injection article on the basis of the date format. Please note that I had provided improvements to the references and their formatting. There are now updates to cites that are now only accessible through an archive. There are some additions to wiki links. In other words, my edits went beyond "wholesale" date format. The article also has a template to use the dmy format. Is that also in error? Although there may be ongoing discussions regarding date formats in Wikepedia, all I was attempting to follow consistency within this atricle. It is important to provide proper updates to the references and presentation. If you have a concern about the date formatting in it, then I would suggest fixing only that aspect instead of performing a mindless "wholesale" revert of all the upgrades. I thank you for your vigilance regarding the structure of the dates, and also hope that you will respect the work to improve the references and the information presented in the article. The contribution included a lot of individual "retail" searching for the proper references. Wikipedia is better served with having proper citations. You can adjust the date format to your preference, without a "wholesale" deletion. I am not a "vandal" and simply attempted to provide updates and information for this article. Thanks! CZmarlin (talk) 07:32, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Apologies for being a bit brutal in the revert. I did see that you made other good changes. Normally I try to undo the bits I didn't like (in this case, the date format) and keep the bits I did like (all your other changes). There is an ongoing discussion about whether yyyy-mm-dd should be banned altogether and I'm a bit sensitive to it at the moment, so I wasn't keen to let an article have all its reference dates changed but today I didn't have time to fix it as politely as I normally like.
Regarding the date formats, MOS:DATEUNIFY says yyyy-mm-dd may be used even when the article text uses another format. It also says it should not be change without consensus or strong national ties.
Now that I am at home and have some time, I have reinstated your changes - but with the references dates as yyyy-mm-dd. Rest assured that I never had the thought you were a vandal and that I am appreciative of the work you put in.  Stepho  talk  10:13, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Pic electric car[edit]

Hi Stepho. I found this picture. Do you think is suitable for the lead of "electric car"? Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 02:14, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I can't say that I'm keen on on it. I know that fuel tanks are rarely at the front of a car, but other than that, it looks just like a petrol pump hose when viewed as a thumb nail (ie when we can't read the writing on the charging station sign). The background is also cluttered and distracting. Wish I could say something nicer about that epic but pictures with coiled, brightly coloured hoses really do emphasise the idea of electric (or at least, not petrol).  Stepho  talk  00:24, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I trust your judgement for the pic we need for the lead. I will keep looking.--Mariordo (talk) 03:21, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, Stepho-wrs. You have new messages at Talk:Tesla Motors.
Message added 01:06, 8 February 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I placed a comment on the "number of employees" question.

Also, wonder if you would reconsider weighing in on the merger proposal that is currently going on (merging the Blue Star article into Tesla Motors). It seems that, as is, there is no consensus. But if you could get to 51%/49% in favor of one side or the other, rather than 50/50, then I would think that would decide it either way. Thanks. N2e (talk) 13:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I can't decide either, so I'll just stay out of the way. Thanks for the invitation though.  Stepho  talk  04:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Automobile drag coefficient may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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  • |journal=Popular Mechanics |first=Joe |last=Bargmann |date=2013-11-04 |accessdate=2014-02-10}}]</ref> || 2013 <!-- expected in production in a couple of years -->

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 22:33, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Fixed  Stepho  talk  22:41, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

RIP - TMCA[edit]

Very sad news being announced by Toyota Australia as I type this... OSX (talkcontributions) 07:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Holden leaving is having knock-on effects. Our entire manufacturing industry is about to collapse :(  Stepho  talk  08:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Land Cruiser[edit]

Hi Stepho-wrs. I have raised a discussion of the Marlin model here: [2]. I thought you should put your thoughts in. "Luxury interior" is a serious over-simplification. Djapa Owen (talk) 03:28, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I will comment there. Thanks for the heads-up.  Stepho  talk  04:33, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


Hi Stephan,

Larry Tunison here, Oberlin, Ohio, USA. I worked for Toyota Philipines in the 1970's. When the first Toyota senior advisor left for home he gave me his staff car. It was a Toyta President. Have you ever seen or heard of this. From what I recall it was only produced in Japan and in a very limited quantity. Also, do you have any information on the 2-seater sports car from the same time period. They stopped producing it because too many people were getting killed driving it like a race car. And last, The Toyota Mini-Cruiser. It was made in the Philippines under the Progressive Car Manufacturing Program, Basically, every car manufacturer (5) had to manufacture major automotive parts. They were allowed to import the equal dollar amounts that they exported. Toyota did the 2R, Ford did Body Stamping, GM did the Saginaw transmission, VW did electrical and Chrysler did heavy parts like rear axels. We used these to produce the Asian Utility Vehicles. Toyota made the Tamaraw (not on your list). The Land Cruiser was popular but was too large for the Market. Too expensive and consummed too much fuel. Toyota designed the Mini-Cruiser and it was made from the parts I mentioned above. Let me know please if I can answer questions or if you get some dood info. Thanks.

Larry — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:34, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Larry,
I think the senior advisor gave you a Toyota Century - a very nice car indeed. Its competitor was the Nissan President.
Not sure which two-seater you mean. There was the Toyota 2000GT (roughly equivalent to a Jaguar E-type) and the much smaller Toyota Sports 800. I haven't heard of them killing lots of drivers. The Toyota 7 race car program was cut back after some race car drivers were killed. There were also several 2-door concept cars [3].
The Mini-Cruiser is new to me. I will look around and see what I can find using the clues you gave.
Which list was the Toyota Tamaraw supposed to be on?  Stepho  talk  04:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi Larry and Stepho, I wrote much of what content there is on the Mini Cruiser, see here: Delta Motors Corporation. Larry, if you have a better photo in your drawers (one taken by you, that is) , we'd welcome it if you shared it. Cheers,  Mr.choppers | ✎  03:55, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Toyota model codes: V10 or V1[edit]

Hi. Do you think we should continue to use the now widespread double digit model codes like V10, XV40, J150, E160 (triple digit for numbers above 99). Or is it more correct to state: V1, XV4, J15, E16. Taking a look fresh look at Toyota Oldies several years after we decided to introduce the current format, I notice they use the single digit codes. It makes sense to me as the V10 Camry was designated SV10 and SV11; the last digit being the model variation and the first denoting the generation. OSX (talkcontributions) 12:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

There is certainly precedence for both forms on fan sites. To my knowledge, Toyota has never used the single digit form. In the UK when the E30 series Corolla came out but the old wagon continued, they called it the 20. In their parts manuals they used E2# - where # means any digit.
I never liked dropping the last digit because of confusion between the Corona RT20 and ST200 - which does T20 refer to? Unfortunately, T20 is the most common for the FWD Coronas but for very few other models. Fans sites for classic RWD Toyotas seem to prefer either E20 or E2#.
I'm reluctant to drop the last digit because it is not obvious that a digit has been dropped. I prefer a place holder of some type. # might be hard for new readers to understand. 0 also has troubles when people confuse the series code with an actual model code (especially on the MR2 page). That's why I always preferred to say 'E20 series', to emphasise that the code represented a series, not a single model. Using 0 as the last digit also fits in well with how we talk about the 1920s decade.  Stepho  talk  22:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for putting forward your thoughts. I know Toyota says "70 series" for the 1980s era Land Cruiser that is still sold in some markets (e.g. ours). I guess we should leave it as is. Cheers, OSX (talkcontributions) 07:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


It seems one of my computers has a virus that adds rubbish text about Skype to some of my edits. Apologies to all and thanks to those that remove this rubbish on my behalf. I will try to purge the virus.  Stepho  talk  04:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I did a couple of complete virus scans using anti-virus tools from different vendors (including bootable USB thumb drives) and found nothing.
I believe the Skype add-on for my browser was finding what it though were telephone numbers and "helpfully" translating them on the fly into one-click items. I have disabled the add-on and hopefully the problem will go away.  Stepho  talk  15:10, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[edit]

Well, you claim it not to be a reliable source, but it appears to be referenced on 46 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) articles.[1] (talk) 01:11, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, other people have broken the rules. That doesn't mean it is allowed as a reference. A random person with unknown credentials added that post to with no proof of the information being true or accurate. Please read WP:USERGENERATED.
Why did you call me racist when I made no mention of race or country? I find it hard to take you seriously when you make things up.  Stepho  talk  05:54, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014[edit]

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  23:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Reference date format[edit]

most of the reference date formats in the article are same as i have put for the references i have added in the format.. date month year. if still it need to be changed let me know the format. will do it. I have seen few other article reference date format like you mentioned such as YYYY MM DD but in that few of them have put up like YY MM DD which causes confusion which format its. Thats why i have been using this format (example - 23 June, 2013). Anayways do let me know which is best. Will do the same. Thanks !! Sayowais (talk) Owais 10:02, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Oops, I confused your edits with similar edits that I was looking at on another page. My apologies.  Stepho  talk  11:25, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
No Problem !! But do help or let me know if i do some error inturn making me a efficient contributor to wiki. Thanks!! Sayowais (talk) Owais 15:25, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Header on your talk page[edit]

Hi! I was just checking that the edits of a banned user had been reverted, and I noticed that the clock on the top of this talk page is broken. It's telling me that it's 17:29 right now in WA, which is surprising because it's 18:20 here in Winnipeg and I don't think WA stands for Western Alberta. Didn't know if you realized; thought you might appreciate the heads-up. --NellieBly (talk) 23:20, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

PS After saving the above I looked again, and it now says 15:20. FYI --NellieBly (talk) 23:22, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
WA stands for Western Australia, which is 8 hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time and is typically 12-16 hours ahead most of North America.  Stepho  talk  00:55, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Turns out the time was being cached by the system and only updating at irregular intervals - which made it useless. I removed it. Thanks for the heads up.  Stepho  talk  22:36, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


Yes, dynamometers measure cable tension. Obviously they're completely different machines that share only a name, but the gadget used to measure tensile force in some cables is termed a dynamometer, just the same. Also see dyne. This is used in a few applications when cable tension is crucial: overhead powerlines, aircraft control cables, even bicycle spokes and guitar strings. One device for non-invasive measuring of this works by trying to bend an already tensioned cable sideways between three points and although most of the simply tensile measuring instruments are called spring balances, load cells etc., this type is commonly called a dynamometer. There are also applications in mine haulage, cranes etc. where the dynamometer integrates force over distance.

That addition was too poorly written for me to think about restoring it, but it is a credible direction for the article to take. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:32, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the heads up.  Stepho  talk  23:36, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

ISO 26262 (parent)[edit]

Yeah, you're right. Something in my state of mind yesterday tripped on the notion that "parent" implied (at that moment) that ISO 26262 was subordinate to IEC 61508 (still does, somewhat). In choosing "preceding", it never crossed my mind that someone might think I was thinking that IEC 61508 is not longer active. But, neither would I say that ISO 26262 simply has a more specific domain than IEC 61508. Yes, it does have a more specific domain, but isn't ISO 26262 quite a bit different from IEC 61508? ISO 26262 introduces hazard analysis and risk assessment/management, integrated rather than separate safety life cycle, pre-production validation rather than post installation validation, system quality target rather than just a probabilistic target for random HW failures. If IEC 61508 is the parent, then why does the child look so much more like ARP4754A, et. al.?  ;)

"Like the precedent standard ..." might work? IveGoneAway (talk) 17:07, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Help with settling a argument[edit]

Do you think you can help me settle a argument regarding to edits about Capital Group Companies owning a percentage of another company? User Owen× undid all the edits I've made regarding companies that Capital Group Companies has small to majority of ownership in. The user, stated that my edits are disruptive and, there is no point of putting information like that in the articles. Seqqis (talk) 00:55, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

My knowledge of the those companies, business law in general and business article on WP is minimal. I recommend asking questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Companies.  Stepho  talk  01:20, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. Seqqis (talk) 14:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Dates + Refs[edit]

Hiya, For once in my life I'm actually not going to edit war :),
Mostly all ref dates are now DD/MM/YYYY or MM/DD/YYYY despite the MOS, but shouldn't we go with consistency anyway??
Regards, →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 22:09, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Davey. Thanks for asking questions instead of edit warring - much appreciated.
MOS:DATEFORMAT allows yyyy-mm-dd as a valid date. MOS:DATEUNIFY says all dates in an article should be of the same format but allows for references to use yyyy-mm-dd regardless of the format used in the rest of the article. WP:DATERET says not to change the date format without consensus or strong national ties (note that Asian countries usually use yyyy-mm-dd in their native languages but are all over the place when using English).
I do like consistency between articles and strive to make it so but there is no strict regulation that mandates it. In the case of dates, any attempt to make them all totally consistent will probably cause a massive fight between the Americans (mdy) and the rest of the world (dmy) and alienate whoever loses the battle. SO I usually make the article text consistent (subject to strong national ties) and the reference dates either the same as the article text or yyyy-mm-dd, depending on which reference date format seemed dominant.
Cheers.  Stepho  talk  23:08, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi Stepho, Thanks for explaining that - It actually makes alot more sense now so thanks - Very much appreciated,
Usually If It's a british article I'd go all DMY and If It's an American one all MDY, and If I'm not sure I tend to just guess & hope for the best really LOL,
Anyway Judging by previous discussions I'd say consensus isn't going to change anytime soon,
Anyway thanks for replying/helping :)
Have a nice day
Regards, →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 23:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

May need assistance with Nissan Lucino article[edit]

I found a fragmented article about the Nissan Lucino, which had duplicate pages for the Nissan 200SX, created by someone who wants to keep the Nissan 200sx article just the way it is, and has reverted requests for merge action. Could you take a look and see if my request for merger is unwarranted?(Regushee (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2014 (UTC))

I will have a look.
Beware that contacting multiple editors directly maybe considered WP:CANVASing (ie asking for help from editors likely to choose your side of an argument). It might be better to advertise the issue at Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles.  Stepho  talk  05:41, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Mitsubishi Magna ([edit]

Hello Sir, I have finally found the talk page you were seeking comments on! Repeat apologies for not having been in touch previously about why the TE model picture is opposed and has been changed. I hope you can see the merit in the argument... the same cannot be said of OSX's reasons. The changes following your intervention weren't a challenge, but more not knowing where to provide reasons - thanks to OSX's buddy, Bohooka, today I finally can. Cheers152.91.9.115 (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Revert of Stout disambiguation tag[edit]

Hi! I saw that you removed my tagging of Stout (Disambiguation) with the WP:BEER tag. First, this isn't an angry note--I'm genuinely curious to know why you removed it. There are other pages that have multiple project tags. See Talk:Barrel_(disambiguation) for one. Is there a new policy regarding disambiguation pages and the still-tagged pages are remnants of some kind? Thanks for any guidance you can provide. Prof. Mc (talk) 00:36, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry for the delay in responding - life gets busy sometimes :( Obviously Stout belongs to the beer project and I have no argument with that. But I took the project tag off Stout (disambiguation) because I believe that most pages should belong to only one project - otherwise we get into fights when one project says things should be done one way and another project says it should be done differently. I haven't seen this in an officially policy or guideline, so I'm prepare to proven wrong. If it doesn't exist then perhaps it could be brought up at one of the policy talk pages so that a guideline could be added to say yah or nay.  Stepho  talk  00:46, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

No worries. My only concern is that there are plenty of other disambiguation pages that are tagged by multiple projects. In that sense you are correct, nobody "owns" any of them. The only purpose to keeping the disambiguation pages tagged is so that the beer folks have a sense of what's out there that relates to our project. I suppose it ought to be an all-or-none thing. Prof. Mc (talk) 00:49, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
I've asked the question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#Can disambiguation pages be tagged for one or more projects. Perhaps wiser heads might be able to help. Please feel free to join in.  Stepho  talk  07:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


The U.S lexus sc400 is actually oficially designated UZZ30L. The L differentiates the JDM and USDM models. Therefore referring to U.S Sc400 as UZZ30 with no L is incorrect and does not make sense. You need to have a look at U.S eBay Motors and bring up a few SCs listings with pics of their Compliance plates. Same for JZZ31 and JZZ31L. Over to you... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1kulture (talkcontribs) 12:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

This is for jzz31L but same for us uzz30

So you want to delete that parenthesis mention of uzz30 referring to u.s sc400 or throw the L back in there. Cheers

This is for jzz31L but same for us uzz30 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1kulture (talkcontribs) 12:18, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi! In UZZ30L the L means LHD, not US (and definitely not USDM because that only applies to vehicles both made and sold in the US, not vehicles made in Japan). I've been collecting Toyota technical material for the last 15 years and have listed a lot of the chassis codes at (look in the production data sections). There is a clear pattern that LHD vehicles have an L just after the numbers . RHD vehicles either have no letter or an R. Then there is a dash followed by the various build options such as engine type, transmission, trim level and finally the destination market - blank for Japan (RHD), A for the US (LHD), K for Canada (LHD), Q for my country of Australia (RHD) W for Europe (mostly LHD but UK is RHD).
The US ebay link says VIN JT8JZ31C4N0007995 - with no L. And US style VIN often doesn't exact match the chassis code anyway (in this case it dropped one of the Z's).  Stepho  talk  23:09, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014[edit]

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  01:31, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


Thanks. Was a bit unsure on how to add BHP to the mix. Hayato (talk) 17:09, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for pointing out the problem - there are a lot of articles that confuse JIS hp (ie PS) with bhp.  Stepho  talk  21:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Toyota Sienna Production Dates[edit]

This is a really old edit, so I hope this doesn't come across as nitpicking. I guess that when you edited this page from the frivolous U.S. model year-based "production dates", the Sienna was rather foreign to you then (U.S. model) and you didn't realize that for Generation 2, 2004 was incorrect and that it was unveiled on January 6, 2003. You did thankfully also correct Gen. 1 from 1998 to 1997, but mysteriously added "Dec" to 2003.

I understand that some of this absurd U.S/ model year nonsense can be confusing (especially when listed as a production date), so I've done some research. This IP carelessly changed the original date to the 2004 NAIAS on June 26, 2009 from January 2003 NAIAS, which was 8-12 months before you edited. I have found that it was December 20, 2002 when Gen 1 production ended (started August 1997) and January 2003 start-up for the 2004 model. It's interesting how you came up with both December and January as the correct months, despite all that confusion. Good job, despite that IP editor muddling up the article. I am pointing this out, as we need to be careful with mistaking incorrect information in an article, as fact while editing and/or adding to it. It can rather waste our own good efforts, if a vandal tampers with an article undetected and leads us in the wrong direction to further muddle it up.––––Carmaker1 (talk) 08:29, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the hard work in getting the exact dates! I was baffled from the conflicting information I found online and the Wikipedia article for Toyota Sienna last week when I created the page Toyota K platform. I couldn't be bothered spending more time with silly dates to pander to the USA's obsession with model years so I relied on Wikipedia as gospel (now fixed [4]). Anyway, between us, we have corrected the dates and platform errors that existed (most sources online say the Camry and it's derivates use the Toyota MC platform which is totally wrong). OSX (talkcontributions) 11:19, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
To tell the truth, I don't remember those edits from 2010. Usually if I know the date myself then I add the reference directly to the infobox production field. More than likely I copied Jan 2004 from what somebody put in the main body text beforehand. And Dec 2003 looks like a guess at one month before Jan 2004 - I honestly can't remember. I prefer direct references instead of educated guesses by counting backwards/forwards from other known dates but sometimes we play with what we were dealt with and make the best of it :) Something to note though is the US model year 2004 can go from Jan 2003 to Dec 2014 if the manufacturer chooses - which makes like hard for us.  Stepho  talk  09:52, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Nissan Sunny[edit]

You're absolutely right, I was confused with the cab version.

I saw the picture of the C20 in the same section there, and jumped to the conclusion that it was the model the text was referring to. I should have read the whole thing before doing an edit, but honestly, I think that picture should be removed (or perhaps moved to a new subsection created for it) to avoid further confusion. It's closer to the text about the coupe ute than the text about itself, and there isn't a picture of the ute at all.

-TBustah 09:52, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

My first car was a B110 Datsun 1200 ute, so I found out a fair bit of history on them, including the B10 Datsun 1000 ute that preceded it - I also had a string of 1000/1200 vans, sedans and coupes before I swapped to Toyotas. Anyway, when I first saw the change I thought "that's a bad change". Then I looked at the picture and thought "fair enough, he's got a point". Then I thought again, did some googling to confirm my often faulty memory and thought "that picture is confusing everybody". We got there in the end :)  Stepho  talk  21:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

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Fixed  Stepho  talk  00:05, 9 July 2014 (UTC)