User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 10

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Archive 9 Archive 10 Archive 11

A humble request


I saw your impressive ship photo retouching work on display on my friend Kiefer Wolfowitz's talk page. If this interests you, I would appreciate your help. At Norman Clyde, there is a photo I took of a museum exhibit on his life. In the upper left hand corner is his Francis P. Farquhar Mountaineering Award . It is at an angle and has glass reflections and other problems. Is there enough data there to reconstruct a usable image to illustrate the article about the award? I tried but my skills aren't up to the task. Thanks if you can help and perfectly OK if you can't. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 21:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll have a look and see what I can do for you. Pesky (talkstalk!) 22:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I've done what cleanup I can there; the reflections interfering with the snowshoes can't really be done any better, but I;ve got rid of the most obtrusive ones. Pesky (talkstalk!) 23:08, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your prompt efforts. Do you have the capability to take the off angle view of the award in my photo and transform it into a face on view? Would it be of adequate resolution and sharpness to illustrate the article? If not, I will try to go back to the museum and try to sweet talk a curator into opening the glass doors to let me take a better photo. It is a long way from where I live but in a beautiful area I love. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:53, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
No, sorry - that one's just not possible! You'll have to go and take the better photo, for that one, I'm afraid! Pesky (talkstalk!) 08:12, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The Realm Under the Sheds

Rattus norvegicus -England -snow-8.jpg

The borderlines and boundaries have been set out; the Accords have been written. Now it's just up to the inhabitants to ratify them ... Pesky (talkstalk!) 14:05, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, good grief.  Chzz  ►  18:49, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

If they can dig through the soil now, they've hired a JCB ... "is this a digger I see before me, its back hoe rake toward mine hand?" Pesky (talkstalk!) 19:01, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Little buggers! At least the tell-tale dinky footprints in the snow this morning make it easy to track exactly which bit of the borders they're violating! If they don't get the hint soon, I shall consider recruiting a new border-guard at Checkpoint Charlie! Pesky (talkstalk!) 09:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Job offered

Wanted: TPS.

Zero pay, no opportunity for progression. Likely to elicit abuse. Very little chance of gratitude.

Apply through demonstration, on User talk:Chzz - which is, frankly, rather \o/ right now.  Chzz  ►  18:47, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Your page is ... daunting ... rather you than me! Pesky (talkstalk!) 19:00, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Attention, please, stalkers!

Your input (whatever it is) would be much appreciated over here. Ta! Pesky (talkstalk!) 09:39, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

The Meermin slave mutiny

Nice article, impressive. Please keep up the good work. --John (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you :o) I noticed your improvements to it; again, thanks! Pesky (talkstalk!) 18:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Are you still after this? I have the pdf, which I can send if required. All very hush-hush, of course, and I assume your wikipedia email's enabled. Nefarious good wishes, Haploidavey (talk) 22:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
That would be really cool! (Yes, email is enabled) We've had access to some of the 2007 work, but to have the whole thing would be great. The real gem will be the 2003 BA Thesis, if you can get hold of that one, too ... ;P Pesky (talkstalk!) 23:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello, ThatPeskyCommoner. Please check your email – you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

Haploidavey (talk) 00:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I've been right through the entire article now, made a few changes, and left a few queries on its talk page. Looks like you might have some useful stuff yet to add, so ping me when you're thinking about going for FAC and I'll take a final look through – assuming I'm still here of course. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to get this to FA, but no matter how well prepared you think you are FAC always demands at least some additional work to fix stuff you never even noticed needed fixing. But FWIW I think it's a nice article, and a sad story that's well told. Malleus Fatuorum 01:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

A sign that you need some sleep!

It's calling you!

Sorry, my beta-test ended a while back. ;)

The Helpful One 18:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Heh! That one's empty, though! ;P Pesky (talkstalk!) 18:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


Would you care to come on IRC to discuss about the ongoing discussion? (Heh :P) I want to figure out your exact concerns and see what you think about some of my own, and I think talking directly would be more effective than exchanges of longer messages on-wiki. Thanks. (Don't worry about it if you're deliberately not going on IRC due to medical or other issues.) wctaiwan (talk) 07:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I've been "off" IRC most of the time recently as we've been going through a high-intensity phase with mother-caring, and real-time conversations can be suddenly cut off at a moment's notice, at which point I could be away for an hour or more. But if others can make allowances for that, then I could log in there again. Poor mother, having had a nasty infection, has been revisiting something in her history which has been making her very scared, and other than babies being mutilated and killed by bombs, we're not sure quite what it is, and therefore how to reassure her over it. Nothing seems to be getting through as yet, and sometimes she will suddenly start really distraught hysterical screaming, and she can clearly "see" these horrible things actually "happening", in her own real-time experience. Terrible, terrible stuff for her. Our GP is going to try to find out from the experts what kind of sedatives we can safely use when she has one of these awful experiences; it's heartbreaking having to just cuddle her, and stroke her back and her hair, and keep trying to get her to "see" that it's just like a dream, and it's not going to kill her, or her various descendants. She's fighting to "rescue the babies", and she can't even sit up. Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Really sorry to hear about what your mother is going through. :/ I hope everything works out best as it can both for you and her. Best wishes, wctaiwan (talk) 11:50, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

just curious...

and you can tell me to mind my own business - but who or what is JLAN? — Ched :  ?  15:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

JustLettersAndNumbers. Two sides to the coin, as with so many of us poor sinners! Pesky (talkstalk!) 15:41, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh .. I thank you my dear lady. I really hate getting caught with my pants down (although it seems to happen all too often), and just wondered about some of the references I'd seen lately. First time I've ever noticed him/her/them around - but then again, I don't edit the horse area either. Anyway, cheers and best - (and the omnipresent "hugs" :)). — Ched :  ?  15:53, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Wot, hugz with pants down? lol! Pesky (talkstalk!) 17:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
JLAN has been my nemesis of sorts, and extremely unkind to me and even more so to User: Dana boomer, who is never uncivil to anyone. I must admit that I finally lost my cool and one day called him a jackass in a couple of places, but then refractored the comment. Basically he was nice to Pesky, (who is hard for ANYONE to hate once you know her! LOL!) but he hates my guts because I dare to disagree with his belief that he is right about everything. I'll grant that he apparently speaks at least four languages and I don't, but though he initially also emailed me a friendly and apologetic message early on, since then, it's just been really, really nasty. He has a bad habit of telling everyone else they are engaging in OR while doing so himself (minor recent example: tagging burro for WikiProject Mexico when burros did not originate in Mexico). He loves to create unneeded content forks, and I also don't particularly care to see my edits referred to as "blithering twaddle," but oh well. Montanabw(talk) 17:08, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 :D You like me! I can kinda understand where JLAN comes from, because sometimes I have to try very hard not to get too obsessed by the wrong things. Remember That Roan Question? And my bijou rantettes about lab-rat geneticists who have no idea about how animal behaviour influences which gender has the more impact on what turns up in the succeeding generations .... I did an interesting test today. Pesky (talkstalk!) 19:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Of course I really like you. The reason is because you can be swayed by facts, but keep a common sense head about you when confronted by "experts." And you aren't out to only tear things down, not build anything up. AND you aren't mean to people. You don't call people's edits "blithering twaddle" and such. And you don't hate Americans or women younger than yourself. Montanabw(talk) 23:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
[Pesky blushes]. I like you, too :o) You haz your head well screwed on and your heart in the right place. Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:08, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I like Pesky too, but not Montanabw... evil and vile horses on their user page. I'm married, so nobody, especially the wife, likes me. I'll go cry for a bit. Bgwhite (talk) 07:17, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I like you! (>**)> hugz. Pesky (talkstalk!) 07:34, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

But I'm giving Bg noogies!! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 20:05, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, ThatPeskyCommoner. You have new messages at Elen of the Roads's talk page.
Message added 00:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Cloveapple may have cracked it Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, I can't send the 2007 thingy until you've replied to my email! Haploidavey (talk) 08:49, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
@ Haploidavey: I have replied (just). Real Life is doing its usual thing!
@ Elen; the 2007 paper is on its way – do you have any other suggestions for getting hold of the 2003 one? Any contacts at Cape University, or anything? Pesky (talkstalk!) 11:16, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
OK, check your inbox. And the best of luck with today's stint with Real Life (gotta get me one of those things, one with 100 year guarantee and infinite mileage). Haploidavey (talk) 12:28, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Expand language

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Sorry, only had the regular Pro Quest stuff

I don't think I have access to the 2003 BA thesis. Cloveapple (talk) 19:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Awww. Thanks for looking, anyway. Pesky (talkstalk!) 20:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Happy Valentine's Day

Horses kissing.jpg Kisses for you
Happy Valentine's Day Pesky! May this year bring you lots of #WikiLove Bgwhite (talk) 19:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Awwww! [Pesky snuggles Bgwhite] Thank you! Pesky (talk) 19:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)


GabrielF's done it again! Alexander's article in Itinerario, about the Zon mutiny but cited re the Meermin, is available here for a short time only! ;op Nortonius (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Whoooo-hooooo! Hey, how do you fancy doing a collaborative article on De Zon's mutiny? And can we dig up some other mutinies to play with? ;P Pesky (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
:D Why not eh why not?! That sounds like an excellent idea! I have a sandbox ready and waiting, or would you rather start somewhere else? Up to you! GabrielF was lightning-fast with this source, as well as doing amazing stuff as always… Nortonius (talk) 18:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC) p.s. Beware though, as of today I'm an extraordinary grumbler! :os
It will have to wait a short while; I really must consider doing that painting ... and congrats on getting the grumbles Pesky (talk) 18:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Ta! Though, it's taken me nearly four years, and am I worthy of collaboration with a Grand Tutnum such as yourself?! ;op All very silly, but ya gorra laff! You're going to do the painting – OMG, brilliant! :D Ok, I'm kinda thinking about getting Meermin (VOC ship) up to GA – who knows how that'll pan out, but it might grab my attention all of a sudden… Well, if you beat me to it just tell me where; if not, I'll just start trying to assemble stuff in said sandbox…? Hope you're ok today. Nortonius (talk) 18:31, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
the VOC ship version should be a piss-easy GA. Go for it :D Pesky (talk) 18:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I couldn't possibly condone Pesky's rather fruity language (piss easy indeed), but she's absolutely right about GA for the ship. Assuming no unforeseen developments in the ongoing ArbCom case I may even do the review myself if you nominate it. Malleus Fatuorum 19:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh Malleus lol thank you! No worries Pesky though, you're right, it is bounced pretty much straight out of the mutiny article, however much I've tweaked and honed! I know you're busy Malleus – when Senra and I worked Reculver up to GA, we co-ordinated the GAN quite openly, would you like to do the same with this, at some point this evening perhaps, or…? I have a friend coming with BEER in a wee while…! :o) Nortonius (talk) 19:26, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Only if you send me some of your beer. ;-) You and Senra are more than welcome to work on the nomination together, just let me know when it's live and we'll get ready to rumble. Malleus Fatuorum 19:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Ok, I'll message Senra now. About the BEER, I'll try pouring some down the intertubes: for tonight's drinking pleasure, we have a choice of Marston's Pedigree, or Shepherd Neame's Bishop's Finger…! Yum. Nortonius (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2012 (UTC) p.s. [paranoia strikes again!] BTW, Senra reviewed Reculver, while I nominated & worked on the raticle [sic] with heaps of help from Senra…

... or if you want Senra to do the review that's fine with me as well. Malleus Fatuorum 20:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'd be really pleased if you did the review, Malleus, but I'll be happy either way, and the last thing I want to do is put anyone's nose out of joint! Senra hasn't responded yet, but me pal's here and we'll be watching The Shield in a mo – I'll probably be back on WP around midnight, see how we all feel? Mmm, Gale's HSB too now! :o) Nortonius (talk) 21:23, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Hey, I've had my nose broken a few times, so it's rather hard to put it out of joint. I simply misunderstood your initial posting, so you and Senra go for it. I can't see any reason why Senra ought not to do the review. Malleus Fatuorum
Seems as if I may have misunderstood too. I thought I was being asked to collaborate. Factual articles are outside my comfort zone. I should "[f]eel the fear and do it anyway" (Jeffers 1987). I would be happy to review provided Malleus stands by (to keep us both from breaking any version of the civility policy!). As I said on my talk page, RL is busy at the moment. I can start in earnest on Saturday. Would this be OK? --Senra (talk) 22:42, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Aha! Nortonius MC at your service! (Master of Confusion, that is!) Thing is, sorry, I think I confused things along the way: bottom line is, Malleus understood my initial posting correctly. What I was trying failing to say was, "Senra and I co-ordinated the timing of the Reculver GAN quite openly", since Aircorn was going to mentor Senra – this meant that Senra and I had to "set our watches" so that he caught the job of reviewing pretty much as soon as I posted the GAN. So, Malleus, would you still like to review a GAN of Meermin (VOC ship)? I'd be delighted, if I haven't exhausted your patience already! And Senra, I'd be delighted to collaborate with you on fielding Malleus' review! I think the article looks pretty well developed, but it's still pretty short: having seen how effectively you dig up the skinny and wield the knife, Senra, I think it could be about to get bigger and better! So, are we on? Shall we make it Saturday? I kicked the article off after a suggestion by Kablammo, who said they'd be around at the weekend to help out too, so this could be lots of fun…! :o) [Pesky, I think we'll be moving along pretty soon now, thanks for having us, hope you're ok!] Nortonius (talk) 23:54, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Don't feel any need to move on, it's nice having you here! (Remembering Actress and Bishop jokes ... "Thank you for having me!" "My pleasure! Thank you for coming!") Pesky (talk) 19:50, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
lol! Thanks Pesky – didja see that the Meermin's presently on course for the Main Page on Saturday?! Oo-er! I've been trying to get another piccie too, fingers & everything else crossed! :o) Nortonius (talk) 20:08, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh, Gawd! Yes, I'll do that picture before then! It may end up being Naif Art Crayon, rather than paint, but at least it will be the Meermin! I was considering doing "rescuing the slaves" bit, with rope, and kiddies being carried to shore, but we'll see how it goes. Pesky (talk) 20:18, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Wooo! Well, don't feel under any pressure – if you have something you're happy with for the article that would be fab, but take as long as you want! Your idea of a "rescue" pic sounds perfect. Fingers crossed that I get this other one that I've asked for too! :o) Nortonius (talk) 22:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Pesky! :o) Hope you're ok. Just thought I'd let you know about this discussion, about low tides around Struisbaai! Nortonius (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Playground Workshop

Hi! user:That Pesky one, fyi Wikipedia:Civility/Workshop *Not* canvassing, I may post a general notice at teh talk page. NewbyG ( talk) 18:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)


Greetings, user:Pesky <grins>
As at 18:23, 16 February 2012‎ ThatPeskyCommoner (talk | page stands‎ at 374,882 bytes) I generally archive my talk page when it gets to about 30KB I other wise accessibility becomes an issue with slow computer connections. Just sayin, hth NewbyG ( talk) 18:48, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! Yes, I may consider telling the archive bot to reduce its timescale, now. Pesky (talk) 19:09, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Request for participation


Dear ThatPeskyCommoner: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation.

The request can be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability.

Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort.

If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Mr. Stradivarius, at their talk page. MedcabBot (talk) 14:12, 1 March 2012 (UTC) Yes check.svg Done

New Page Triage engagement strategy released

Hey guys!

I'm dropping you a note because you filled out the New Page Patrol survey, and indicated you'd be interested in being contacted about follow-up work. This is to notify you that we've finally released both the initial documentation about the project and also the engagement strategy, which sets out how we plan to work with the community on this. Please give both a read, and leave any comments or suggestions you have on the talkpage, on my talkpage, or in my inbox -

It's awesome to finally get to start work on this! :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:47, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Flemish roile...?

Hi Pesky, any idea what type of horse that is/was, mentioned in 1577 here? Ancestor of Shire horses maybe? Also "Scottish nags"? Galloway ponies maybe? Apparently an archaic meaning of nag is "a horse suitable for riding as opposed to a draft animal" – well, I didn't know that, anyway! ;op Nortonius (talk) 13:10, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

A draught horse of Flemish breed

"ROIL: Chaucer writes the verb to roll, reile, and according to Junius(?) roile; and the application of the noun by Udal and Gascoigne seems to be, to  – lazy, unwieldy, rolling corpulence  – or it may be a corruption of rigol." A new dictionary of the English language Charles Richardson, pub. Pickering, 1839

But sure the horse which tyreth like a roile

And lothes the griefs of his forgalded sides,
Is better much than is the hairbrainde colte
Which headlong runnes and for no bridle bydes
But hunts for sinne in every hit and holte." George Gascoigne

And, apparently, the Flemish roile was good at going through mud. So … a draught-type horse of phlegmatic disposition. As the dates when this word was in use seem to be way pre-breed-registry, it's almost certainly just a "type" rather than any recognised breed. Pesky (talk) 17:05, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Ooh ta – hmm, "Scottish nag=riding horse from north o' the border" becomes "nag=knackered old horse", and "Flemish roile=draught horse from Flanders" becomes "roile=inferior or spiritless horse". A pattern there...? Arrr, them forrin 'oarsis bain't wurth topp'nce to th'oarsis uv gud oalld Inglund! Good source there, hadn't come across that one before! :o) Nortonius (talk) 18:14, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Indeed. The etiology of modern "breeds" as we know them is VERY tricky. So far, I've found at least 5 or 6 breeds who either claim descent from Bucephalus, or claim he was of "their" breed, even though the first written pedigrees were not used (other than local manor stud books of their own horses) until about the 13th century? And they range in phenotype from the Friesian horse to the Akhal teke! In the middle ages, types of horses were very much intended for the form-to-function stuff; and you can't look at ANY of the draught breeds without taking into consideration when the horse collar was invented -- which had a revolutionary impact on farming, as it was the first time technology allowed the horse to actually use its full strength when pulling. Dramatic changes in the amount of acreage that could be put to the plow, as horses could move much faster than oxen. But I may also want to glance at the well-researched Horses in the Middle Ages for additional info. Montanabw(talk) 20:03, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, thanks Montanabw – I have had a look at Horses in the Middle Ages; and, I'm trying not to mess up things I know little about, e.g. types or breeds of horses. Actually, I get the feeling that I want to avoid stirring any pots regarding horses, and stick to areas where I'm likely to be as useful, or possibly more so, as most people, e.g. my edits regarding horses in the Anglo-Saxon period. I'll try to keep working on the History of the horse in Britain article, though – other, unrelated distractions permitting, that is! Any input or corrections welcome, obv! :o) Nortonius (talk) 12:20, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Saying hello

Hello user:Pesky, shall we have a pleasant chat? I have recently returned to Wikipedia after a long break, when I did not own or have regular access to a PC. It is good to be back, it's much the same here but technology has moved on, also the requirements to revert graffiti are less, and more mature articles need work of a more studied character, in finding new refs, and tidying the bare URLs etc. I am slowly getting up to speed, with the help of your valuable links to resources. Now, I know I said I was withdrawing from WP:V, but... We were so close there, I am still going to make an occasional comment. And, since I prefer the English language not to be mutilated, that will put me out of step with the majority (or lowest common denominator) approach. I will maintain decorum, I still intend to withdraw from that page as soon as it is practicable. Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 20:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I think if we treat the V page gently, and collaborate kindly and patiently with each other on the talk page, and are all prepared to give a bit of leeway here and there, we will eventually come up with something good. It's more likely to be a case of little tiny steps, letting them settle, looking for the best in other peoples' ideas, and working as a team as opposed to viewing each other as competitors, wreckers, etc., than it is of doing a massive "fell swoop" and expecting magic as a result. "Softly, softly catchee monkey," and all that. Pesky (talk) 22:16, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Now, how was I to know that I would be receiving another well-aimed granny hugs-and-lecture? Seriously though, if at any time I express an idea that invites consternation, or phrase something in a way that may seem daft, please seek explanation from me, your ear is quite close to an organ (brain) that I wouldest wish not to consternate. What I think, if user:Pesky understands me, then I do good. NewbyG ( talk) 22:35, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Plenty of good ideas here

Wikipedia:Verifiability/Workshop. Seen this page? NewbyG ( talk) 07:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I have seen, but not yet contributed. (As far as I recall, anyway.) Pesky (talk) 07:22, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes. The preferred method of contributing to that page is to submit a polished "wording/draft" at the talk page WT/V and, if it is reasonably well received, port it (or someone else will port it) to the Workshop, thus retaining credibility. Or, work on polishing those drafts already on the Workshop page, or its setting out etc. Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 07:29, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


Ya know Pesky - if it weren't for that little puddle, I'd love to come pick you (and hubby? idk) up, head down to the pub, and throw a few rounds of darts. :-( ... gets old sittin around the house staring at those same 4 walls for sure. You have a wonderful day girl -- sending gampa hugs your way. :-) (I had missed what the tp edit was at first ... lol) — Ched :  ?  15:26, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

<pets wolfie and tosses a treat>Ched :  ?  15:27, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

funny thing?

Did you see a user is interested in "dull disclosure" from arbcom?Elen, though meant as a tongue-in-cheek assessment, you are correct in stating that the information being both obvious and onwiki does not count as dull disclosure. Nobody Ent 02:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It's quite a good one, but not up to the standard we've come to know and love from the bestest WikiSlips ;P Pesky (talk) 21:13, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the fish. But...

Thank you for the fish. I understand the kindness of the gift, even though it upset the fishy socks. See Darwinbish's response on my page. (Please don't be concerned at her tone; Darwinbish, regrettably, is never polite, and never makes any allowances. She, er, doesn't do that. See her userpage, her talkpage, and her RFA.) Fun and games with socks apart, though (and I hope you take those as lightly as they were intended), I have another concern: I'm not altogether happy about the way you quoted me to Jehochman, here. That was originally a friendly/jocular remark of mine, about a friend; Jehochman is used to my frankness, and so I didn't (and don't) think he'd mind my remark. Quoting me out of context, and widening it into a generality, the way you do, Pesky, is rather different. However good your intentions in that entire post on Jonathan's page, it amounts to reshaping a remark of mine into a weapon against him, and makes me sorry I ever said it. Incidentally, your verb "Jehochmanned" is really pretty nasty. You are talking about a well-intentioned and hard-working user. Got any diffs for that slur, or was it in private conversation? I refuse to believe "Jehochmanned" has "become a recognisable thing", though as it happens I can easily imagine a certain poison pen telling you so. You may need to be a little more critical of your sources when it comes to what is and isn't "recognisable". Bishonen | talk 17:03, 8 March 2012 (UTC).

[Pesky crawls behind sofa with tail between legs, ears very politely dipped and folded, and eyes the rolled up newspaper warily ....] I apologise profusely for upsetting you; that aspect hadn't even occurred to me. I know J is well-intentioned and hardworking. I don't have diffs; although I've heard the term from several people, it was likely to be private (though for all I know it's also somewhere in here). Even when I try to do something good, it so often goes wonky. Pesky (talk) 17:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

please refocus

You've done a good thing by encouraging a fellow editor User_talk: The post on Jehochmann's page, and the lack of good faith "dreading the consequences, oh dear" implied on Elen's talk page are not good ideas. Yes, we are imperfect and, as a rule across the board, frequently treat IP editors poorly. But continued focus on a block from last month is not an effective strategy to address that. Nobody Ent 12:16, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Gotta agree here with the "not an effective strategy". There's nothing that can be done about that IP unless they decide to come back on their own. These things happen, and they will happen again: consider it an unfortunate friendly fire incident. There's no way to change anything that has already happened, and things weren't handled in a completely unacceptable way. When a referee makes a controversial call in a game/match, no amount of arguing reverses it. Especially after the instant replay is over. Doc talk 12:40, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I have taken those points on board. My concerns here are:
  1. that a wrong was done which could be righted
  2. that there's a lesson to be learned to try and ensure that this doesn't happen again
Yes, we all make mistakes; sometimes we'll each act in haste without sufficient background research. The most important thing to learn, from when something goes wrong, is how to avoid repetitions of the exact same thing. If we can't, as a community, accept when a wrong was done, try to right it insofar as that is possible, and resolve not to fall into the same trap again (the "snowball effect" of multiple small wrongs creating one very big wrong, with an editor driven off), then we, as a community, need to change. Pesky (talk) 13:08, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
From what I saw, I rather thought that was the point you were making, rather than flogging one particular dead equine, which is how your comments seem to have been received. In other words, I think your focus is extremely valid, and broader than perceptions thus far have recognised. As for strategy, you have to start somewhere, somehow – I've been finding that a struggle myself, in a not-entirely-unrelated matter...! Nortonius (talk) 13:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I hate things like this. Being principle-centred means giving principles priority over personal comfort-zone stuff, though, and since I decided that the only way to have real integrity was to be principle-centred (something like 17+ years ago), doing the comfortable, allegedly-easy thing of turning my back, and pretending that nothing bad happened, and brushing it under the carpet, would ultimately leave me feeling far worse than digging my heels in and saying "No, there's an important principle at stake here." It's bloody uncomfortable, being principle-centred, but I would hate to be veering off into the other area. Pesky (talk) 13:25, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I've been quite far out of my comfort zone for the last week or two, trying to get Jimbo's attention (which I have to an extent), and posting at WP:NPT talk as well as en-help on IRC talk: I find it exhausting, mainly because my comfort zone is quite limited these days, and all those places are way outside it. I could go on, but don't want to side-track you or this thread; point is, you have my support, and I know what you mean! Nortonius (talk) 13:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I want a much bigger comfort zone, and / or more resilience and emotional strength! And I'm getting fed up with waiting for this damned neck operation; it keeps getting put back, and put back, and I have so little sensation left in my left hand :o( Pesky (talk) 14:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I'd been wondering about that, damn! That's bad news, really sorry to hear it. Chzz was asking after you, by the way; hope something happens for you pdq! Nortonius (talk) 15:01, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────It's a bummer. Problems at C4, C5 and C6 are affecting the whole of my left arm, hand and shoulder, and the upper and middle sections of my back on the left hand side. Most of the skin over my left shoulder and the outer side of my left upper arm is numb, which is a bit concerning, as that's the dermatome supplied from the nerve root at C4. (Dermatome is the sensory bit). The functional bit of the C4 nerve root is used for breathing, among other things. There's a saying "Cut C4, breathe no more" which surgeons commit to memory ..., and I intensely dislike the fact that I obviously have some marked interference at the C4 nerve root. It's one of those things that one finds oneself pondering in the stilly hours of the night, but unlike the counting of sheep, it's decidedly not a cure for insomnia! Pesky (talk) 16:40, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Eek, that sounds really horrid! Hmm, hugz but hurry-up-thoughts at surgeons! I can imagine the frustration, I know about losing sleep, and I've woken up in the night with both arms dead due to sleeping on them(!), but I don't suppose I really have any idea what it's like for you... Hope they pull their fingers out soon! Nortonius (talk) 19:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Pass on a virtual-hug from me, next time you see / speak to him. He might be amused to know that Ankh-Morpork's four main food groups have something in common with discussion on the WT:RFA page. Pesky (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Mmmm burnt crunchy bits. WormTT · (talk) 14:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, he may have emailed you, and not heard back? Keep in touch; best. (talk) 00:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
What a good point; I forget to check my emails! (They're on the other computer ...) I miss Chzz. He has much in common with many of us: passionate about the 'pedia, genius-level talent in some areas (teaching is one of his), some glitches, very misunderstood. Biggest cause of conflict in here, I think, is misunderstanding / misreading the other person. He's also very principle-driven. Pesky (talk) 07:06, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
(comment from talk page lurker) It has been obvious to me from the very beginning that Pesky's focus is much wider than to re-hash one already-resolved incident. How can we come to use prior experiences as an example for future learning and betterment? I do think that the proper venue is perhaps the Village Pump, but in that case, there are so many tiny observations we can make, but in such a swamp of information and purposes, how can each individual concern be met?
Anyway, count me as supportive, therefore involved, and so subject to the criticism of being not an independent voice. Que sera sera; well, my voice does happen to be original, no one else would wish to claim it! NewbyG ( talk) 17:26, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

About that IP user...

Hello Pesky,

I appreciate your letter. In relation to the editor with the Czech IP... Look, I accept the consensus that Czech IP is not the same person as Newbie and Doc...

Is the Czech IP the same person as the other party I named in the SPI, Roger P.? No-one else commented on the question -- the administrator who closed the SPI simply said that the question of Roger was "stale"... In other words, it doesn't matter whether the IP editor is Roger or not.

OK... Whoever the Czech IP person is, do their edits suggest that here is a newcomer to debate about Wikipedia? Or do they suggest that here is a person with strong views about WP, Jews and other topics, and confidence to express those views with some energy? And how do you he or she hasn't edited since? It is the nature of IP numbers that they don't necessarily stay the same, even if there is no attempt to disguise anything.

In short: I would suggest to you that the editor with the Czech IP is a strong willed individual who can probably get by without help or encouragement from me.... Kalidasa 777 (talk) 20:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I have to say I haven't a clue who Roger P is; never come across them before. Was Roger P. based in Czech country? The IP's edits date from 2009, and do all seem to be from the same person (as far as I can tell); that looks to me more like a static IP than a dynamic one, but I'm no expert on that. But, if they've been editing from that address since 2009, then it's obvious why they don't look like a newcomer  – it's because they're not one. Regardless of any of that, I feel strongly that they really were put through the wringer there; I almost quit WP altogether in December myself, and I know of others who've quit (and some have been long-standing editors). Anyway, if you don't think there's anything you can do to reduce any damage done, then so be it, that's OK. Cheers, Pesky (talk) 21:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, there is a long history of edits there from IP Beginning in 2009 with this one, [1] where they tried to make the WP sandbox redirect to gay... Lots of edits labelled by bots (on the history pages and the list of contribs) as "section blanking", or "references removed", for example this one [2] which got reverted pretty quickly... And what about this one [3] that declares -- not as a quote, but in the voice of Wikipedia -- that Samuel Johnson's English dictionary is "a major cause of illiteracy"... Is this good faith editing, or the behavior of a troll??
Regarding Roger P, if you'd like to know more, please look at the archived SPIs about him at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Roger_Pearse/Archive. Kalidasa 777 (talk) 08:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes that is good sleuthing going back through the contributions like that. Finding some bad ones too, we can not be sure who made those old edits, IP addresses are shared over time. I had looked last month at recent activity on that address, and found that there were what appeared to be a pattern of good faith or attempted good faith contributions recently. [4] [5] [6] [7]
But it is so hard to judge in such cases, we ought to give the benefit of the doubt, if we possibly can, I think, and we should certainly not jump to conclusions which do not need to be made, if I make myself clear here. NewbyG ( talk) 15:58, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
  • @User:Kalidasa 777, the OP, Just so that this unsupported assertion of anti-semeticism is refuted, as user:Jehochman acknowledged, and also at ANI that was the clear conclusion, check the archives of ANI : and here === The so-called "antisemitic remark" is this: diff. There is nothing antisemitic about that. That seems logical. Thank you. NewbyG ( talk) 16:29, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Newby. I agree it can be hard to work out what is happening. On one point, though, I think you have it wrong... You say that Jehochman acknowledged that IP90etc didn't say anything anti-semitic. If that was true, it would be an interesting change of mind. After all it was Jehochman who blocked IP90 for trying to "engage in nationalistic culture wars" regarding Jews, as well as for attacking other editors.... See Jehochman's comment at [8].
So why did Jehochman change his mind? The answer is that he didn't! IP90's explanation that you've quoted on at here was posted at 23:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC). Jehochman's comment "That seems logical. Thank you." was posted at 15:45, 28 February 2012 (UTC) -- eight hours earlier! Actually, Jehochman's "that seems logical" was not a reply to IP90 at all..... Although certainly it does look like one until you check the time stamps... Perhaps that was exactly the impression IP90 hoped to make, when he put in his comment immediately before Jehochman's "that seems logical"?? Kalidasa 777 (talk) 20:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
There may be a perfectly innocent explanation; we're not mind-readers, after all. My brain is still full of morphine, so I shall go and eat, and read, and sleep now. Pesky (talk) 21:03, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello Kalibasa, yes that's good, about user:Jehochman, they have perhaps not changed their mind over it completely, but they did observe the ANI section, but it does not matter now, as the block which was applied has long ago expired, we do not need to take more time over this matter. My own conclusion is that clearly consensus at the ANI topic was that the anti-semetic allegation was rather weak, but, as I say, the block expired and no further action has been taken. I rather think user:Jehochman may have revised their opinion somewhat, but not in time to shorten the block, through the revelations at the SPI in fact, but that is my conjecture. As I say, I do not think there is any action that can be taken now, or further investigation, that leads us anywhere. I am satisfied at present, and if I somehow seemed to have misrepresented user:Jehochman's position, I apologise, and am glad that user:Kalidasa 777 was sharp enough to notice the discrepancy in the narrative. Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 21:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC) Anecdote: user:Jehochman and myself go way back, though we rarely cross paths, just occasionally, as is the way on our multitude of pages. often it is a case of Oh how I wish good old so-and-so was here to comment on such and such a matter, but usually they are busy elsewhere or asleep <smileyface>
I second NewbyG's comment about your sharpness in spotting that timing thing. Very observant; I'd totally missed it. Pesky (talk) 07:09, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Love for Pesky

Heart-beat.gif Love for Pesky
I miss seeing you on IRC! Pine(talk) 09:33, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I will be back over there, some time! I've just had too many things to do / think about, and insufficient time and energy to fit them all in! (>**)> Hugz. Pesky (talk) 09:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Revision deletion

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Revision deletion. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. RFC bot (talk) 13:18, 9 March 2012 (UTC) NDon't have the knowledge required for this one. Pesky (talk) 13:41, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Watch the Northern Lights tonight!

Apparently tonight is the night for seeing the Northern Lights from more southerly latitudes than is usual; even from the UK. This is because of the coronal mass ejection (solar storm). So, get out there watching, and take some nice pics :o) Pesky (talk) 18:25, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk · contribs) will no doubt wield eir scythe with aplomb. (talk) 00:47, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
We had too much cloud cover :o( Not a thing to be seen. Pesky (talk) 07:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I was so tired that I fell asleep reading and forgot to go look. Hear it was pretty good up in Alaska, though. Montanabw(talk) 05:28, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


GoldenRetrieverPuppyDaisyParker.JPG Woof woof
Do come back on IRC soon, I miss you. You were like an extra granny, a wild one that gave sex position tips. Everyone needs a granny like that! OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 14:40, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello from them

Hi Pesky. Pesky said this and I got to thinking. You see Pesky, I know that I do tend to go on a bit, about words and stuff, but I think it’s important, in an encyclopedia words are the stuff we’re made off. So, I ask you, these two phrases : (A) If you leave a message on this page then ... (B) If a message is left on this page then ... ; the phrases are not identical are they, and depending on context and personal taste, the effect on each individual reader and readers collectively can actually make a startlingly significant difference, I think, in many areas where we need to write such and similar stuff. (And basically that is in the main the sort of writing necessary for writing guidelines and POLpages, in the main.) If you would care to have any comments, other than the obvious, which is that NewbyG has an obsessive streak concerning words sometimes. Te he NewbyG ( talk) 15:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I find the use of the words "you" and (more importantly) "we" to be very effective, in most places. I share your obsessive streak about words – language is a fascinating thing, constantly evolving, and words end up meaning something almost completely different, often, from how they started life. Consider, for example, the usually-vertical storage device, with a door, in which one would usually store such things as brooms, mops, and so on. Started out life as a horizontal surface (plank, or similar) for the storage of drinking utensils. Cup-board. Pesky (talk) 16:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Pesky, thanks for picking up here; and - now this is a matter of personal taste, I will say that the word "we" is a most valiant ally in writing for wikipediaspace; and for myself then the word "you" is like a garnish and ought to be used as sparingly as possible but to maximum effect. Take for example the second person conditional so beloved of manual-writers eg. If you want to (place an order), then you should (sign on the bottom line). Now that is clear , but utterly dullsville if every sentence in the manual is written exactly alike. Your turn, grins.. NewbyG ( talk) 17:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Grrrngghhhh .... brain is on the point of beginning to absorb 20mg of morphine (bad pain day today), so I'd probably better not edit for a while, or I'll be getting even more rambly than usual ... cyaz, as the grandkids would say! Pesky (talk) 17:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

That's OK Pesky, you take care. I will leave you with this thought, I love punctuation eg. semi-colons, colons and commas. And full stops in their place. Cheers, NewbyG ( talk) 17:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Pesky, thanks for the user-box. Here is a short draft from my sandbox written with no personal pronouns. I was going to rewrite the same material, as an exercise, using second personal conditional, but then I thought if you wished to, that you could do that very easily. So, if you want to, there is a reward of five virtual jellybeans , how's that sound? Hope you are not feeling too unwell, and the pains are under control, all the best NewbyG ( talk) 08:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

This weekend is "respite weekend" (mother is off to the residential home where my elder daughter works, for a long weekend). I have a painting to do (really must get around to that!) to illustrate the Meermin slave mutiny article, and I'm hoping to be able to do some outdoorsy work on the field (and maybe some hoof-trimming on the boys). Pains and glitches permitting, of course. Yesterday was absolutely lousy, as far as pain goes; a sort of 20mg of morphine every six hours jobbie (bar-steward thing!) Not sure what today will be like, but my left arm and shoulder feels like something grafted on from a zombie this morning! 50% functional, at best! I may take a look at that, or not, depending. Pesky (talk) 09:02, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Please, you keep yourself as comfortable as possible, and may the medical crew do their best work for you. Like Prince says on an excellent live DVD I have got; "there's too much sadness in the world, let's not get melancholy". See here.
The absolute pinnacle and sine qua non of sentences, IMHO, are those with only verbs! some examples? Look! Look up! Be miraculous! Love! Shine on! Be bold, but not foolish. (also, if possible, only use nouns of immense integity eg.) Let there be Light! Sela, NewbyG ( talk) 17:40, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Considering this, perhaps this is self-education, or else the mouth of babes type of thing, dunno. Note, there’s a “ zero” count for personal pronouns of any number singular, plural ,first, second, I think. Could you do better Pesky, using second person etc. It is really destined for the policy, one would think, if it goes anywhere. NewbyG ( talk) 04:27, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

And as for proper nouns and personal pronouns , a perusal of Naming and necessity#A theory of naming indicates to me how utterly misguided and un-theoretically underpinned are the intuitive notions which are unreflexively applied in most kinds of semi-formal writing, (especially where "writing by committee" is involved), thus resulting in some degree of habitual confusion. NewbyG ( talk) 18:57, 12 March 2012 (UTC)