User talk:The Transhumanist

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Please contact me concerning anything to do with outlines or the Outlines WikiProject. Questions, problems, conflicts, AfD's, etc. etc. Thank you.


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Rants:

The emptiness of the term "unencyclopedic"

"Unencyclopedic" is an empty argument. It means "not worthy of being included in an encyclopedia", which is synonymous with "should not be included" or "I want it deleted". So when you use it as a justification for deleting something, it's a circular argument: "Delete, because it should be deleted". This is just repeating yourself. What we want to know are your reasons why the article shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Simply answer the question, What guidelines does it violate, and how?

Nohat-logo-XI-big-text.png This user is one of the 400 most active Wikipedians of all time.


Speedy deletion nomination of Outline of Toronto[edit]

Hello The Transhumanist,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Outline of Toronto for deletion, because it appears to duplicate an existing Wikipedia article, [[:{{{article}}}]].

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, ♦ Tentinator ♦ 07:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

It's an invalid speedy request. You didn't state which article it duplicates. Also, the page is a brand new article under construction. And finally, it's an outline, and is consistent with the design of the outlines found at Portal:Contents/Outlines.

I've removed the speedy tag, and have moved the draft to the draftspace of the Outlines wikiproject. The Transhumanist 18:18, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

It's grown larger than many country outlines. So I've moved it back to article space. I didn't realize there was so much material on Toronto. The Transhumanist 06:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Heads up[edit]

Just wanted to give you a quick heads up, I removed 131 non-free files from your #27 sandbox because of WP:NFCC#9 Werieth (talk) 14:21, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you The Transhumanist 03:27, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 9[edit]

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Files missing description details[edit]

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Index and Outline[edit]

I may have come to the right place (although I did click on "Goodbye" above to see if you were retired, and now I'm probably on some kind of watchlist????) Here are my questions two:

  • 1. I've expanded the "Index of Vatican City-related articles" and have grabbed most of them. In my journey I've found many related categories. Is it kosher, accepted, or unheard of to make a section near the bottom listing "Categories" and then adding those (with the usual : before the category so the page itself isn't listed in the category).
  • 2. An outline of the American Civil Rights Movement! I've added the large majority of the articles on the "African-American Civil Rights Movement" template, and kept watch on it, and a little while ago another user suggested doing it as an unfolding template. But instead, an Outline would work very well (I can see it in my mind's eye, until I go to sleep, and then I see other things). I've added just a little to the Vatican City Outline, but can add more after exploring the VC pages, but that is my only experience with an outline. Can I discuss the Civil Rights Movement outline with you further, and is there a set way to start it off? Pictures are accepted in an outline, correct?

Thanks. And good to meet you. Randy Kryn 11:50 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Regretting the timing of your retirement[edit]

Y'know, it really kinda sucks that you more or less retired right around the time I was going to ask for your help with a possible suggestion for how to improve the "index" articles.

I've never been particularly active on them, because, unfortunately, preferring some sort of "outline" format, I've never been entirely sure which articles belong in which outline section. I have in recent times been working on putting together lists of encyclopedic articles relating to specific topics, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Methodism work group/Encyclopedic articles and other pages in the Category:WikiProject lists of encyclopedic articles, based on existing reference works which relate specifically to the topics of the groups themselves. It has always been the case that there have been quite a few major articles in other reference sources which we don't have, which has made setting up any sort of outline more difficult. I was actually going to ask for your help in developing a few in your own particular areas of interest, or sources which are easily available to you, so that we would not only have an "outline" of the content we do have, but also a few good indicators of what content we don't yet have, and also what sources exist for a lot of the content we do have.

Anyway, sorry for having gotten to you a bit late. If you do decide to ever return to active editing, drop me a note and I might be able to offer a bit more help now, with a few crib sheets prepared, than I did earlier with your objectives, particularly the outline articles. John Carter (talk) 16:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Retired? Are you sure? How could you tell? When did it happen, exactly? I think I missed it! The Transhumanist 22:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Help Project newsletter : Issue 6[edit]

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The Help Project Newsletter

Issue VI - April 2013

Open Help Conference

The Open Help Conference will be taking place June 15-19 in Cincinnati Ohio, USA. The conference includes two days of presentations and open discussions, followed by team "sprints" - collaborative efforts to write and improve documentation.

It has been suggested to send a team from Wikipedia/Wikimedia: to share our own knowledge about help, learn from others in the open source community working on similar problems, and to carry out a sprint to improve some aspect of Wikipedia's help.

There may be support available for volunteers to attend from the Participation Support program (and your editor is certainly hoping to be there!) Please join the discussion in Meta's IdeaLab if you're interested, and/or have suggestions about what we could work on.

Other news

If you don't wish to receive this newsletter on your talk page in future then just edit the participants page and add "no newsletter" next to your name.

Suggestions for future issues are welcome at Wikipedia:Help Project/Newsletter.

the wub "?!" 16:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Community portal Editor retention[edit]

Wow, thanks for that! I thought it would take a lot longer and much more work to get that section up. You caught me in one of the rare times when I was inactive due to some family issues. I will get to work on putting that section up! Thanks again!--Amadscientist (talk) 06:53, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks you so much for your improvements to that section. I appreciate your work!--Amadscientist (talk) 19:18, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for May 20[edit]

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sats 15:49, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Warning[edit]

For creating Outline of cuisine when the consensus of the AFD was clear, and Outline of cuisines had already been redirected. Pull that kind of stunt again and you'll be on AN/I. — The Potato Hose 04:03, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Addendum - you have been blocked for this behaviour in the past. I would have thought the lesson would have stuck. — The Potato Hose 04:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

But I'm the one who renamed Outline of Cuisines in the first place, as part of a reverse split, as I explained, to put the edit history of List of cuisines back where it belonged (at List of cuisines). With outline content at List of cuisines, the title is now a misnomer. It is now a List of cuisine-related topics, not merely a list of cuisines. The Transhumanist 04:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
You make no logical sense. First you say that the outcome was to keep... so the content should be at Outline of cuisines. But I (correctly, according to the consensus that the AFD reached, which was even commented on by someone in the discussion!) redirected that to List of cuisines. You then went and created a similarly-named page to get around that consensus. It's really, really clear what you did. Look at this again and ask yourself if you want another entry there. If you persist in saying that you were right to recreate the article at another almost identical title, while allowing the redirect to stand (which is what makes no logical sense), I will have no choice but to report you to AN/I for this. — The Potato Hose 05:04, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Also, the example you pointed out was for move warring (renaming), not for splitting off content in good faith. The title of "List of cuisines" is now an error of scope. It misrepresents the scope of the list. The Transhumanist 05:01, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Your actions are not consistent with someone acting in good faith. See above. — The Potato Hose 05:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
After looking at "Global cuisine", I decided "Outline of cuisine" fit better than "Outline of cuisines". It is also more appropriate now that the huge list of cuisines has been removed from the outline. "Outline of cuisines" as a title became just as awkward as "List of cuisines" is now. "Outline of cuisine" fits much better, concerning its intended scope. The Transhumanist 05:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Sure, okay. Except you're still ignoring the consensus at the AFD, Quiddity's sudden backpedaling notwithstanding. I'll quote his/her exact words, bolding in the original:
merge and rename the majority of the contents currently at Outline of cuisines and Global cuisine into a single article at List of cuisines. Any remaining list-style content that doesn't belong in that merged list, can hopefully be merged into Cuisine#See also.
That was the statement 4/6 other editors agreed with. Please show me where it said that Outline of cuisine/s would stay as a separate page. — The Potato Hose 05:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Also, I believe you are misreading the AfD. Most of the voters didn't have the opportunity to consider Quiddity's final statement, and so it is up to the closing admin to that. I agree with Quiddity's final remark and the closing admin's interpretation of consensus. The Transhumanist 05:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
(after ec) Of course you agree. See the quote above, and see my analysis of who said what. I was careful to note who agreed with which one of Quiddity's statements. — The Potato Hose 05:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Please pause your editing at List of cuisines so I can clean up the mess from your sloppy edit here, where you failed to remove some of the flags while also removing swathes of useful data and refs. — The Potato Hose 04:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Please also note that if you are going to copy and paste from one article to another you need to indicate the specific revisions which have been copied. Given the scale of this merge it makes a lot more sense to get an admin to do a histmerge and then recreate Global cuisine. — The Potato Hose 04:17, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Agreed, notes are required. Please see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and refresh your memory. Edit summaries, are the minimum required. (After-the-fact edit summaries are acceptable, but not ideal. WP:HISTMERGE is an option, but not required.) –Quiddity (talk) 05:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
      • Notes were provided, per Wikipedia:Merging#How to merge, in both of the articles involved in the merge, here and here. By the way, the character counts differ, because the African continent paragraph was already in there. The Transhumanist 06:16, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
        • Whoops, my mistake. Sorry. (I'm still frustrated from this morning, which led to this whole debacle.) –Quiddity (talk) 06:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Merge underway[edit]

I've begun the process of merging Global cuisine into List of cuisines, per consensus at the Outline of cuisines AfD discussion. Feel free to pitch in! Cheers, Northamerica1000(talk) 08:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Nice job. I'll gladly lend a helping hand. Cheers. The Transhumanist 09:04, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm preparing to log off very soon (notice to avoid edit conflicts). Northamerica1000(talk) 09:35, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, I merged the South American material over. But my eyelids are drooping – I've got to get some sleep. See ya around, and keep up the good work! The Transhumanist 09:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I notice that you've worked on the List of cuisines article prior to all of this recent activity (per the revision history), which is appreciated. The merge process from Global cuisine is about 4/5 complete. I knocked out a big chunk today, performing it meticulously to ensure that there is no data loss. I created and was essentially a primary contributor to the Global cuisines article, so the familiarity with it was likely a factor in an expedient merge process. A question (rather than figuring it out through the revision history): did you reorganize the section structure of the article as it is currently organized? (I like the format, per detailed geographic areas.) The merge is working out quite nicely at this time. It took some time, because the organization in each article has significant variance, but it is worth the effort. This article has potential to reach WP:FL someday. Northamerica1000(talk) 07:31, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. Most of the sections were already there. I adjusted the structure, and refined the heading titles. The Transhumanist 01:57, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Argentine Government[edit]

Not sure whether this is your area, but here goes. In the article on the Argentine Government, there is a section on the Supreme Court. The last-named member of that court is shown as Dr Eduardo Coudet. However, the link is to an Argentine footballer of the same name. Surely that can't be right?Agent0060 12:14, 26 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agent0060 (talkcontribs)

I'm interested in all subject areas on Wikipedia, and I'm happy to help. The info appears to be either in error or out of date. See http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corte_Suprema_de_Justicia_de_la_Naci%C3%B3n_Argentina#Corte_actual for a list in spanish of the members of the Supreme Court of Argentina. The Transhumanist 17:05, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. Doesn't this need to be included in the English version. Agent0060 19:13, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Good idea. Be sure to include references from an external source. You can find those by doing Google searches on the names of the judges found in the Spanish-language Wikipedia. The Transhumanist 21:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

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Outlines in articles[edit]

I look forward to "hearing" from you (on my talk page). Sincerely, The Transhumanist 07:40, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Transhumanist! Nice to hear from you. There are definitely some of these gems hidden in articles. I wish there were an easier way to search all articles for "Outline" in a section heading. For instance: Foundationalism. I think this can best be done by running a script across a dump. – SJ +

P.S.: Where do we place votes for WMF?

You can vote via Special:SecurePoll. Warmly, – SJ + 16:30, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedia Highlights from May 2013[edit]

Highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation Report and the Wikimedia engineering report for May 2013, with a selection of other important events from the Wikimedia movement
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AWB documentation[edit]

Please don't re-arrange the pages. You just wiped out all of AWB's documentation pages. Bgwhite (talk) 20:36, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I didn't wipe out anything, I changed the page title to reflect its contents.
The menu says that the page includes "Documentation of the various features of AWB".
But it doesn't. It gives instructions on how to download the AWB source code.
The documentation on the program and its features is included in the User Manual.
Fix the menu please. The Transhumanist 3:40 pm, Today (UTC−6)
The page does list about compiling the source code, but it also lists the various documentation pages available.
The very first thing is a bar saying Topics: Custom modules · Dated templates · Interwiki order · Mono & Wine · Plugins · Rename template parameters · Style.css · WikiFunctions.dll · User talk templates 21:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
On virtually every page on Wikipedia, the subject specified in the title is the subject covered in the body of the article. But on Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Documentation, that standard is not followed. The body of the article is about something totally different than the title of the article. It's confusing. The Transhumanist 10:40, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

AWB nav structure[edit]

Stop whatever you are doing to destroy things. Let me see things first. You don't go off and destroy/move/re-arrange projects you are not part of. Now leave the damn thing alone till I have looked at things first. Bgwhite (talk) 03:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I've looked things over. I've also reverted your changes.
  1. I have been revamping the pages. I know they are not perfect. The old version of the main page is here. Old version of the bar is here
  2. I've only worked on the Main page. Reworked the page on how to compile the code (but its still work in progress) and redone the bar.
  3. "User Manual" and "Documentation" need to stay separate. They are entirely two different things. Imagine the user manual for the car including all the blueprints to the car, it would get very confusing. "User Manual" is for 99% of the people. "Documentation" is how the inner workings of AWB are done. There were entirely too many people confused about this before.
  4. It is not the "source code page". It is the main documentation page that also includes the source code. I just updated the past week the source code instructions. Another person just went thru compiling it for the first time and will update the page based on their experiences. It still is a WIP.
  5. The pages you gave as examples, "Portal:Mathematics" or "Wikipedia:Community portal" are oranges to AWB's apples. AWB has alot more pages and is alot more technical.
Yelling and accusing blows things way out of proportion and may confuse or mislead someone else visiting the talk page where they are posted. Therefore, especially on user talk pages, please observe WP:CIVIL.
You can revamp the pages, but others cannot? Please review WP:OWN.
I'm not angry, but I am a little frustrated. You seem to be following a double standard, or caste system. All editors are equal.
I don't mind being reverted, but being mistreated I do mind.
Let's fix the AWB department's tangled navigation system. I'm not here to edit war, but to proactively help push things forward. Back and forth rounds of editing and discussion work fine, adapting the design with each iteration.
As a hands-on editor, you know how slow things can get bogged down in proposal discussions. I find WP:BRD works best, which is what we're doing.
I'll be happy to work with you, but tone it down a bit, please. I'll get a better feel for what you like as the reiterative editing process continues. Check out the latest round of edits, and let me know what you think. The Transhumanist 09:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Same thing to you. You don't OWN the pages either. Blindly changing all the pages around without one bit of discussion is wrong and it lays claim to ownership. You have never heard my input once before changing around things. I am angry, frustrated and peeved that you will make any change you want without disregard. It is you who doesn't want input and creates the double standard.
Whenever I have made major changes to the pages, I have asked for input before making the changes. You should do the same. I don't play WP:BRD. There should be no reverting to begin with if we discuss first. If there is going to be really big changes, then it will have to be discussed on AWB's talk page first. Bgwhite (talk) 17:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
But WP:BRD is effective, and fast. That's probably why we have it. The same reasons there's an edit button in the first place. WP:OWN doesn't apply to editing per se, but to stopping someone else from editing. I have not done that. The first round was a best guess, and got feedback quickly. I have taken your criticism of my edits constructively, and have applied it to another round of editing. (That's why I like BRD, it's fast). As always, feel free to revert and/or revise my edits. How do you like the latest changes to the {{AWB}} template? The Transhumanist 20:03, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Again, I don't do WP:BRD. So, please don't do it either. I don't like and don't want to revert people's changes. We've both been in here forever, so there is no use for speed... in a few years we will be editing Depends and Geritol pages. Bgwhite (talk) 20:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Patience may be a virtue, but slowness is a sign of giving in to old age. I suspect Depends may be further off for me than you.   :)   Concerning WP:BRD, that and WP:BOLD are my editing approach. I only regret I didn't think of and write those first. Don't worry, my "best guess" improves with each editing pass, making reversions less and less likely. As for speed, it is more relevant than ever.   Time is running out, man! The Transhumanist 22:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

AWB changes[edit]

Now if you still want to help and yes, I want your help.

  1. The wording on the main bar about "User Manual" and "Documentation" needs to be changed. How would you change it?
  2. The secondary bars on all the User Manual and Documentation pages need to be changed. How would you change it? I've thought about adding another separate row on the main bar rather than a secondary bar. I don't know what is best.
  3. Beyond the menus. What else would you do? Bgwhite (talk) 04:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
  1. Change "Documentation" to "Technical". Also, reduce the height of the box. Yes check.svg Done
  2. The navigation system needs to be overhauled. But first we need a bird's eye view. (I.e., revision tools). I'll have something ready in a few days.
  3. The User Manual needs to be fleshed out and completed, and the development procedure needs to be made more transparent. The manual says "It is community-maintained outside of the development team." It seems very odd to separate the two - how do the writers find out the details about how the program works? What are the reporting requirements and procedures for developers? They don't add features to AWB without providing complete specifications to the user manual writers, do they?
Sincerely, The Transhumanist 09:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
I've yet to see a great user manual and any manual is in need of improvement. That is definitely the case here.
Development procedure is up to the developers. They dictate how transparent they want it, not us.
User manual is done by experienced AWB users. Having "manuals" done by people other than the developers is very common in the open source world. It is actually preferred to let users write it... The AWB writers find the details because they are experienced and have been playing with AWB for awhile. Bgwhite (talk) 17:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
The writers have to figure out (or reverse engineer) the features put in there by the developers? Are there any features the writers haven't figured out yet? The Transhumanist 21:13, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
There really hasn't been a new "feature" for awhile. Most are relatively minor changes. The Changelog shows what is new. Also, most things are pretty easy to see and figure out, if you are familiar with AWB. The more technical things are updated by the developers. Bgwhite (talk) 21:41, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Ah, the Changelog. That's what I was looking for. Thank you. The Transhumanist 21:51, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

  1. Sandbox, sandbox, sandbox. Otherwise you stuff other editor's watchlists full of tests. (Especially with your habits of doing multiple small tweaks over a few hours)
  2. As Bgwhite said, the User manual, and Technical documentation, are generally kept separate.
    Eg mw:Template:Hubs.
    Or Eg.2. dev vs user
  3. Please do not ever [create new navbar, to replace an existing navbar], as you did with {{AWB help menu}}, and as you did with the Community portal navbar (which I still want to get fixed).
    Because: It leaves important navbars without ANY people watchlisting them. AND it can appear to be a way to 'avoid' proper discussion/collaboration on updating an existing navbar.
(and yes, I still owe you a reply to that other thread. Sorry. I'm swamped with projects. I am still thinking about it.) –Quiddity (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Difficulty in distilling the essence of outlines so that users readily understand them, has been the bane of that project since the beginning. That thread is of utmost importance, and any help you can provide in alleviating outline confusion would be most appreciated.
Concerning the navbars, the watchlisting on the host pages covered the changes. Plus there are many eyes on the navbars' host pages. Vandalism does not last long there.
{{AWB help menu}} is a supplemental menu intended for tying the technical docs together. It is not intended to replace the main AWB menu per se, and works equally well as a stand-alone or co-placed with the main menu.
The new CBB nav bar was created for the revamped Wikipedia: Community bulletin board (the navbar's main host page), and was placed on there rather than at the top of the Community portal, from where the old broken navbar had been removed by someone months ago. The new navbar includes a "bulletin" link, coinciding with its placement on the WP:CBB for which it was created. When the CBB was restored to the community portal, its navbar migrated there with it.
Concerning the technical documentation, it's not all about development. Some of it appears to be advanced use instructions. Maybe some differentiation by the way it is organized will make it easier for users to make sense of? The Transhumanist 22:18, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
If you could copy/move your CBB comments, to the WT:Community portal thread, that would be great. Then I can reply, without further tangenting this discussion (and other people can then potentially respond/understand). –Quiddity (talk) 22:03, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
My comments about the CBB were in the context of this discussion here. If I were to post a thread elsewhere, I'd like to write it from scratch. In the meantime, what about the technical documentation? Some of it is developer, some of it advanced AWB use. How could it be helpfully differentiated? The Transhumanist 22:18, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Transhumanist, could you keep AWB stuff on your talk page instead of mine and here. I'd like to keep it in one spot. If you need a response faster, type in "Bgwhite" as that will cause the page to show up in the new notification system. I've got a "game" going on with another user in which we mentions each other's name in some very random and weird spots.

{{AWB}} looks much better. "Advanced subsystems" could be reworded as it won't make much sense to the average user. It's a little redundant, but how about "Technical documentation"? Bgwhite (talk) 20:49, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm glad you like it. "Technical documentation" works. Yes check.svg Done The Transhumanist 21:13, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

AWB navigation system[edit]

As User:Quiddity said, "Please do not ever [create new navbar, to replace an existing navbar],...". Now stop adding/creating/moving navbars all over the place. You've changed ~20 articles. I have asked you three times to discuss before making any major changes. Your refusal to do any discussion about what you are doing will no longer be tolerated. You only want to discuss after you made changes to multiple articles.

This is now your 4th and final warning from me. You have also been warned multiple times from User:Quiddity. Failure to do any discussion before making changes will result in me blocking you. Bgwhite (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: It's way too territorial for me. You are defending the territory as if you own it. I'm done. You obviously own the AWB nav structure. It's your work of art or something. Have it. If you had just let me work on it, I'd have had it revamped to your satisfaction within a few days. The approach you are demanding, to get your permission for every single edit, will take weeks or months. Goodbye. The Transhumanist 06:26, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: I apologize for the above statement. It wasn't constructive, nor particularly polite. The Transhumanist 09:15, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I got pinged, and I'm going to jump in again. Sorry. (Canadians apologize instinctively!)
I'm going to repeat what I said a few weeks ago, on my talkpage, in an unrelated discussion:
"It's easier to "Act now and explain/apologize later", which you do quite often.
"It's a lot better to "Suggest now, and act once some time has passed without objection (or once objections have been answered)". Eg. this merge looks like a good idea. But a talkpage note 24hrs beforehand would have been marvellous. Yes it's more effort. Being polite/friendly/civil/patient takes more effort, too, for naturally sarcastic bastards like me. That effort is worth it." [emphasis added]
Your enthusiasm is hugely welcome. But we did write WP:DISCUSS in 2006, with you as the prime motivation. You know this.
Slow. The. Hell. Down.
Discuss & draft overhauls with fellow editors, first.
You have to adapt to the norms here; don't force us to adapt to your non-typical editing speed & style. Bold is good, but hesitation and patience are also good.
P.S. Install this. Aggravating admins is bad for your health! –Quiddity (talk) 21:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: I need to use AWB to complete a project I'm working on. But AWB's documentation is so convoluted as to be almost useless. The basics are covered well enough to figure out quickly, but the advanced subsystem documentation is so confusing as to be worse than useless. Part of that problem is the navigation system, which is non-standard, non-intuitive, bloated, and makes finding things extremely difficult. It makes the learning curve longer and steeper.

I was hoping to help sort it out quickly and get back to what I was doing, but you guys want to turn it into a month long project.

@Bgwhite:Bgwhite, I could have that system revamped to your satisfaction in 5 or 6 iterations over a period of 2 to 4 days. But it can't happen if the first iteration is nuked rather than moving forward with the next round of adjustments. You can't see over the second hill until after you've traveled over the first hill.

What the AWB-nav-system designers have attempted is a multi-menu interface using horizontal menus. It's very difficult without an understanding of that design model's idiosyncracies and pitfalls. Among other things it requires focus on the overall subject's intrinsic hierarchy.

Another part of the problem is that the nav-system is also extensively header-based, which brings with it another set of problems to watch out for.

Combining these 2 design features is tricky. It requires working within the limitations of both approaches, which was not done, resulting in a maze and a nav system that has become its own object.

A sandbox would be inadequate, because we're not talking about revamping a single page, but a system of connections between a large number of pages. Sandboxing the core of the system would entail building 20 or 30 sandboxes and refining the way those pages are connected to each other. This would be cumbersome.

It would be much more efficient and less time-consuming to improve the system in-place.

@Quiddity:@Bgwhite:But if you are not up for that, I have a suggestion...

Go back to the basics, to MOS formatting standards.

  1. Build a navigation footer. It can be extensive without interfering with reading the pages it is on. AWB pages' headers (that is, everything above the lead paragraph), are bloated to an extent that they hamper efforts to study those pages. A reader can easily get lost in the AWB department because a large portion of the tops of the pages all look the same. One of the main ways that articles are differentiated from each other is by their first paragraphs. But on AWB pages, you can't even see the lead paragraphs (or start reading them) until you scroll down the page. Make the content the highest priority, not the navigation system. Let the reader start reading about the subject of each page immediately.
  2. Once the navigation footer is made, nuke the headers. Get rid of everything above the lead paragraph except essential hatnotes.
  3. Then for each major subset of pages within the department, build a series template or {{helpbox}}to tie those pages together.
  4. Then place a very simple one-line navbar to connect the main AWB page and the main page of each of the subsets.

It's a simpler system design, but much easier to implement than a header-based approach with multi-tiered horizontal menus. Though I'd really like to refine AWB's current header system, it just doesn't appear feasible given the procedural constraints and imposed time requirements.

I hope the above observations help. Happy editing. Sincerely, The Transhumanist 06:32, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: For {{ping}} to work, you have to include a 4tilde signature in the same edit-"save". I'll re-ping @Bgwhite: here for you, now.
Okay. The Transhumanist 02:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC) (for the pings)
AWB: You made User:The Transhumanist/Outline of AWB a while ago. That, and 1 or 2 sandbox pages, should be all that is required to make a new navigation system. I've added a section at the bottom, with the 2 existing and 1 new template [Update: Done now - I or the software lost my earlier version, sorry for confusion!]. More than 2 templates is just going to be more confusing, to anyone who didn't actively create the things. Footers are bad, many people won't see them; Template:Village pump page header is a good model, and the existing AWB header model works fine.
You could also use a collapsed element, as in {{Navbox with collapsible groups}}, to condense the entire thing into a single non-overwhelming headerbar. Make the technical rows collapse by default on the main page, and open on the necessary pages. –Quiddity (talk) 01:07, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
@Quiddity: Not me.   I was just making suggestions.   ;)   And the outline was started before I opted out.   I may point out problems or make suggestions from time to time, but it's up to someone else to fix or implement them.   I prefer to work on deserted or unowned pages these days. Wikipedia is suffering a major shortage of editors. The AWB department already has plenty of editors to maintain its pages. Other pages/departments aren't so lucky. Besides, I'm already trying to maintain 3 departments. Don't have time to get bogged down in discussions. The Transhumanist 02:38, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
"Don't have time to get bogged down in discussions." Pure gold. You have learned nothing. When you said, "It's way too territorial for me. You are defending the territory as if you own it.", that was it for me. I said four times to discuss before making any major changes before doing them and don't do WP:BRD. You disregard. Quiddity stated the same thing and even points out the adding/changing navbars should never be done without discussion first. What did you do? You add/changed navbars without discussion.
I have no patience or desire to work with someone that is adversarial and refuses to follow basic Wikipedia rules. The fourth pillar of Wikipedia states, "Editors should treat each other with respect and civility:... Seek consensus" Click on the wikilink and the first paragraph after the lead is about discussion. Wikipedia:Consensus's first sentence is, "Consensus refers to the primary way decisions are made on Wikipedia, and it is accepted as the best method to achieve our goals".
From WP:BRD, "BRD is not a policy. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow." When somebody says discuss, you cannot say no, I follow BRD. WP:BRD also says to discuss after the 1st revert, not continue to edit.
I've seen your talk pages and you being blocked. You constantly go against consensus or make changes without any discussion. If you don't have time to discuss, you don't have the time to be editing Wikipedia. You need to give Quddity one huge thanks. If it wasn't for Quddity, you would have been blocked many more times. Bgwhite (talk) 05:45, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
"Constantly" is a false accusation, an insult... and a personal attack. You demand WP:CIVIL, but you don't follow it yourself. WP:CONSENSUS states "Consensus is a normal and usually implicit and invisible process across Wikipedia. Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus." I prefer to work in areas in which my edits are not disputed or reverted, which accounts for more than 99.9 percent of my edits. Which means the vast majority of my edits are not against consensus.
You've misinterpreted me, you've misquoted Quiddity, and you've misinterpreted policy. Most of the changes I make I do without any discussion. That is true. You make it sound like an editor has to get permission for every edit in advance, and that simply is not the case. You are allowed by policy to make changes without prior discussion. It is called "editing". It's supported by the policy WP:CONSENSUS, and by the guideline WP:BOLD which is requested in the policy WP:EDIT (it even says "Please boldly add information to Wikipedia").
On the flipside of the bold coin is the right to not participate. If I walk away from an argument, that usually means I just don't want to fight anymore. Because this is a volunteer endeavor, an editor is not forced to participate where he does not wish to. You can decline to discuss if you also decline to edit. I've stopped editing the nav bars. I'm not required to stick around.
You keep criticizing me for not discussing. But, I am in discussions on the AWB talk pages, so why the heck are you still complaining about it??? I made a proposal on one page, and pointed out some problems on another. I expressed above that I'm done editing the AWB nav system. It's just too slow. I said I didn't have time to get bogged down in discussions. You seemed to have ignored the "bogged down" part of the statement, and assumed I meant no discussion at all. I have time to post an observation here or there. I don't have time for a month-long proposal discussion and debate. You don't need me there for that.The Transhumanist 08:47, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

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Re: Hunting for embedded outlines[edit]

Hi, just to let you know I have seen your message, thanks for that. I definitely appreciate it. My time has been very limited lately. I hope I will find some time at the weekend to look into it. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 21:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Damn, still haven't found the time to work on it due to stuff on and off WP. I don't even find the time to work on this task a lot lately, which is one of the projects I am working on. I also work on a new outline located here, which however is still a bit incomplete. I know you've already spend some time on getting me to work on outlines a bit more, which I notice (and appreciate). -- Toshio Yamaguchi 20:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

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Help Project newsletter : Issue 7[edit]

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October 2013[edit]

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Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter[edit]

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Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...

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My Homepage & Competitions[edit]

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Climate of Nagorno-Karabakh listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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AFD of List of Dewey Decimal classes[edit]

I have put in a deletion request for List of Dewey Decimal classes as it appears to be a copyright violation. I'm notifying you as you have either made multiple edits to the article in the past year and/or on the talk page for that article and Talk:Dewey Decimal Classification. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:22, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

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Response[edit]

Hello. First of all, I want to say thank you for all the information messages and I would like to express my sincere appreciation and good luck to you and Wikipedia.

Going back to your questions ...

  • I write on wikipedia when I have free time. "Wikipedia as a hobby."
  • For the arguments about the "Italian culture" and the "List of Italian polymaths," I will try to be as detailed as possible.

Thank you. --CultureEurope (talk) 11:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Let's discuss scope of Genius article on its talk page[edit]

Not all articles that might conceivably be See also links from Genius actually need to be on that page, particularly if they don't show up naturally as hyperlinks from article text. But let's discuss on the talk page. Feel free to suggest new sources for updating that article, which badly needs work. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 22:28, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Let's discuss Human intelligence template too. I see you are also editing the Template:Human intelligence, a template originated by a Wikipedian who has since been subjected to ArbCom sanctions for edit warring. Before we both slog further into that minefield, could we discuss what sources you refer to when editing articles on human intelligence and related topics? I've opened up discussion of that issue on the template talk page, recommending some sources that you may enjoy reading. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 02:04, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for checking the articles on human intelligence[edit]

I see you've done miscellaneous fixes on various articles today. I wanted to let you know that I just AGF-reverted your removal of the primary source tag on Triarchic theory, because that article is indeed only sourced to primary sources, or sources by the theory creator, which is disfavored by WP:RS for the primary source issue and arguably other Wikipedia policies for the one point of view issue. This is a fixable problem, as reliable secondary sources by other authors exist on that topic, but they haven't been added to the article since the tag was (correctly) put on the article quite a while ago. That's a common defect of many articles on Wikipedia about human intelligence, few reliable sources. I'll try to fix that as I have time. Cheers. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 21:32, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

No prob. You're welcome. The Transhumanist 21:45, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

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Climate of Nova Scotia[edit]

Hello, The Transhumanist, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Climate of Nova Scotia, appears to be directly copied from http://retireinliverpoolnovascotia.blogspot.com/2013/02/liverpool-nova-scotia-mildest-winters.html. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

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The blogspot entry appears to be a cut and paste from Nova Scotia, the article that Climate of Nova Scotia was split off from. The Transhumanist 13:21, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Why 8?[edit]

WT:8#Why 8? ;-) John Vandenberg (chat) 14:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

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Edits to intelligence articles[edit]

I see that you made a lot of edits to the human intelligence template, and related articles. Thanks for your hard work, and sorry I wasn't online to comment on it. Is there any individual part of it you want my comment on, or for me to help to improve? --Prmct (talk) 03:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Should the outline include books about human intelligence? There are a lot of those. There are some in [9], and more in [10]. --Prmct (talk) 03:43, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

BTW, could you please explain why you included one book in the human intelligence template, but no other books? I think the template and outline should either include books about human intelligence or not include them, but it shouldn't have just one book. I removed it, [11] but I'd like your opinion. --Prmct (talk) 21:35, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year The Transhumanist![edit]

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Happy New Year!
Hello The Transhumanist:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Northamerica1000(talk) 06:02, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


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A barnstar for you![edit]

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For your efforts on updating, improving and organising Outline of human anatomy LT910001 (talk) 06:39, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello! I have just noticed this thoroughly comprehensive article and, although you made the majority of contributions 2+ years ago, would like to thank you for the effort expended. As an introduction, I'm an active member of WP:ANATOMY, and we are in the process of revitalising the project. One of my targets is to try and organise the large amount of lists under our aegis (Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anatomy/Open_Tasks#Organise_WP:ANATOMY). I was wondering what your opinion would be, as lead contributor, about moving the majority of the minor content (such as the entire list of nerves and muscles) off the 'outline' page and onto a separate article. This would have the benefit of having specific articles with defined scope, can contain additional information not found in the outline, and can help to reduce the duplication which currently affects our articles (eg List of human nerves, Outline of human anatomy, Cranial nerves). What would be your thoughts on branching out like this, and leaving on that page a more outline-focused article? I don't want to disrupt an article where such loving work has gone into, but in my experience having duplicate anatomy articles tends to decrease rather than improve the quality overall. Kind regards, --LT910001 (talk) 06:47, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar.

With respect to your queries, please see my response at Talk:Outline of human anatomy#Concerning the splitting of this outline. The Transhumanist 02:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't believe I ever got back to you on this. Thanks for your explanation and alerting me to those multiple systems, it makes things much clearer. Kind regards, --LT910001 (talk) 03:54, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Richard Lynn article[edit]

Hi, do you still want to help improve human intelligence related articles? I recently noticed some problems with the Richard Lynn article. I raised them at the BLP noticeboard: [12] Please comment there, if you're interested. --Prmct (talk) 13:37, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

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Perl help for bot[edit]

Hi, I noticed your name at WP:WikiProject Perl and I was wondering if you are interested in helping me port a German Wikipedia bot written in Perl to work on the English Wikipedia. The bot currently runs well on German Wikipedia. Its function would be to remove references to files deleted from Wikimedia Commons. You can see the discussion here: Wikipedia:Bot requests#MissingFilesBot_.3E_see Category:Articles with missing files. I'm also working on an edit filter (abuse filter) request on a similar topic here: Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested#File:http.2F.2F. Thanks. - tucoxn\talk 23:45, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Where's the collaboration taking place? The Transhumanist 11:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

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Outlines[edit]

I've been gone for a while... I kinda just left wikipedia lol... I'm still in school but I think I'll start really working on these again... Imma start on the political science outline... I have other outlines I need to create but that will come later... Gamewizard71 (talk) 20:58, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

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List of geniuses listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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Indexes[edit]

Can you remind why we have these "Index" pages (Index of gaming articles, etc. – everything at Category:Indexes_of_topics) that duplicate the functionality of the category namespace? I know what the Outlines are for (we need more of those, and better), but these Indexes seem to serve no purpose any longer.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  23:09, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Redundancy is irrelevant. See WP:NOTDUP.
They represent an alternative format, that relies more on scrolling than clicking. These pages are very much like the indexes of books, and support the same type of browsing (overviewing an entire subject in a single list). See Index of psychology articles for a good example. Some users prefer this format.
They're centralized all-in-one lists. They provide a trackable way to gather all topics on a subject. The lists can't be damaged without you knowing about it. With categories, someone can remove an item, and you'd never know unless you already knew it was included and noticed it missing. With indexes, there is a record of all material that has been removed.
They're scope is wider. Rather than being broken up into many subcategories, each major subject has a single index. So, if you want to do something with all the pages on a subject (download them, AWB them, run "Related Changes" on them, etc.), you only need to conduct one operation, rather than retype the operation over and over on separate categories (which gets tedious and very time-consuming). Mathematics for instance has thousands of categories.
See Index of mathematics articles for the most extensive index example.
Via redlink support, indexes are also good for tracking a subject's comprehensiveness. Topics that don't have an article yet show up in red.
They are building blocks. Like outlines, indexes are stepping stones to something even better. Someone may come along and improve them in unexpected ways...
Indexes represent another way of doing things - like categories, they're a technology. Parallel or competing technologies are a good thing, because they have a tendency to leapfrog each other. Who knows what (or when) further applications will be discovered for the index pages. Maybe something to do with corpus construction and relationship identification in natural language processing. Do not under estimate the potential of lists.
For more information, see WP:CLN concerning redundancy amongst Wikipedia's navigation systems.
Sincerely, The Transhumanist 19:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Not sure I find this convincing; NOTDUP/CLN addresses categories, lists and navboxes, but indexes are none of those. It's unclear to me how we determine if anyone actually uses these indexes other than the rather small number of editors who work on them. But, it's not something I feel strongly about. I was asking for a reminder, and you provided one; I didn't come looking for a quarrel! WP has enough of those. I know I for one am tired of people trying to undo my work simply because they don't understand it or don't think they'd use it, so I'm not about to embark on such a cause myself. PS: This would be compelling to me: "if you want to do something with all the pages on a subject (download them, AWB them, run "Related Changes" on them, etc.), you only need to conduct one operation, rather than retype the operation over and over on separate categories"; but these indexes are hand maintained and almost always incomplete, so that doesn't really work. I'm also pretty sure AWB at least can be made to walk down a categtory tree and process subcats. But you give a lot of other rationales, and I'm not ignoring them.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  01:00, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

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Merge discussion for Outline of search engines[edit]

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Asian cuisine / List of Asian cuisines[edit]

I note that last year you created List of Asian cuisines, which duplicates the content and purpose of the Asian cuisine list article. Do you see any value in keeping both? The Asian cuisine list article is in a poor state with little information other than unsourced opinion, and is cluttered with too many images, and red links, while List of Asian cuisines is sourced, informative, and better organised. My feeling is that there is little content to be saved in Asian cuisine, and that it might be more useful to redirect the title to List of Asian cuisines (or vice versa). Essentially, keep one article, and work on that. What do you think? SilkTork ✔Tea time 18:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

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Capital of Macau listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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Wikipedia almanac listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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TfDs of likely interest[edit]

Please see WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 October 22#Glossary templates (and the related WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 October 20#Template:Gbq), as the outcome will strongly affect WP:WikiProject Glossaries and MOS:GLOSSARIES.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  19:09, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

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Global catastrophic risks[edit]

Please don't move without consensus it is disputed and has been previously discussed on the talk page. -- GreenC 16:41, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I've posted my rationale on the talk page. I hope I've explained WP:SINGULAR adequately. Cheers. The Transhumanist 05:05, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

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warning[edit]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Intellectual property. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.

Please stop and discuss. Thank you. Jytdog (talk) 03:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Posted reply and thread at Talk:Intellectual property rights and Talk:Intellectual property. The Transhumanist 03:27, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

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which is here Jytdog (talk) 04:33, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

WP:MOVE[edit]

Let me first say, again, that I appreciate your boldness. Nothing good happens here, unless people take the initiative. On the other hand, as you know, WP:CONSENSUS and discussion are the foundations of this whole place - when people disagree, you stop and talk. It is basic wikipedia-sense. So if you look at WP:MOVE, of course it gives freedom to be bold. But of course it also gives a broad nod to WP:CONSENSUS, especially in Wikipedia:Moving_a_page#Before_moving_a_page and WP:RM/CM, which emphasizes, "Use this process if there is any reason to believe a move would be contested." Once you started the doing the move (and late on a Friday night at that) and I objected, the right thing to do - the consensus-oriented thing to do - would have been to reel it all back and start over at WP:RM/CM. That's my view. Jytdog (talk) 02:32, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Outline of Narnia[edit]

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